We were inspired to delve into this further after reading this recent tweet:on this subject previously, and 4% seemed awfully low, so we went ahead and counted up all of the inductees (including every inducted member of groups).
|Induction Category||# of Hall of Famers||# of Women||% Women|
|Sideman / Musical Excellence||19||0||0%|
Some additional data points:
- Of the 186 performers inducted, 31 include at least one woman (16.7%).
- There are 98 duos and groups that have been inducted in the performer category, accounting for 494 of the inductees. Of these, there are 36 women from 19 groups.
- Of the 88 individuals inducted in the performer category, there are 12 women (13.6%).
- There are no women in the “Clyde McPhatter Club” -- Hall of Famers inducted multiple times.
- In 1986, 1992, 2001, 2003 and 2004, no women were inducted.
It’s difficult to find a similar institution to compare to the Rock Hall. (For example, the Baseball Hall of Fame only has one woman inductee!) Another music industry benchmark might be the Grammy Awards. Their marquee award, Album of the Year, has included a woman 31% of the time (17 out of 54). This issue isn’t exclusive to music. In the U.S., only 5% of the art on display at museums is made by women.
After all of the “Women Who Rock” publicity last year, many of us thought that might inspire a more female-centric 2012 induction ballot. When the finalists were announced, five of the fifteen were women, a relatively high percentage by Rock Hall standards. But after the voting, and when it was all said and done, out of the 69 trophies handed out at the Induction Ceremony in Cleveland this year, just two went to women.
* - We haven’t been able to fully document all of the inducted members of Early Influence groups. This may be where the discrepancy lies between our total number of inductees. The Rock Hall lists 681 and we counted 685. The percentages of women remain largely unaffected either way.
- Blue Caps (Gene Vincent)
- The Comets (Bill Haley)
- The Crickets (Buddy Holly)
- Famous Flames (James Brown)
- Midnighters (Hank Ballard)
- Miracles (Smokey Robinson)
In each of these cases, the backing group failed to get into the Hall of Fame at the same time as their frontman - sometimes causing a great deal of controversy. The Hall of Fame's failure to induct the Miracles along with Smokey Robinson in 1987 caused a particularly large uproar. Hall of Fame rules state that artists are eligible for induction 25 years after their debut release. At the time, Robinson had been a solo artist for only 14 years.From John Soeder’s Plain Dealer report:
The newly announced honorees were not nominated on the latest Rock Hall ballot. Instead, they were designated by a special committee.
"There was a lot of discussion about this," said committee member Terry Stewart, president and CEO of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.
"There had always been conversations about why the groups weren't included when the lead singers were inducted," Stewart said.
”Very honestly, nobody could really answer that question -- it was so long ago. . . . We decided we'd sit down as an organization and look at that. This is the result.
"You're looking at some of the lynchpins between rockabilly and vocal-harmony and straight-ahead rock 'n' roll. It speaks to when this music took off. It's a great statement about the early years.”
. . .
As for other groups that were not inducted alongside their frontmen -- Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, for example -- Stewart said they might have a shot at getting in someday as recipients of the Rock Hall's Award for Musical Excellence.
"The great thing is that the organization recognizes that it needs to look at the process from time to time, and look at the results," Stewart said.
”If there are things that we think need to be modified or changed, then that's what we do."
Congratulations to the members of these groups (and their families) who are finally getting the recognition from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame they deserve. A shout-out also goes to the community members of Future Rock Legends who have been banging the drum on this issue for so long (especially Bill G. and Roy).
More to come...
I'm in the Long Island Rock N Roll Hall of Fame along with Neil Diamond, Barbra Streisand, KISS, Billy Joel, The Rascals and many other legends. That's pretty good company. I should be satisfied with that but like all seasoned musicians... we want it all!Unlike Pete Rose, Eddie Money isn’t blacklisted, he just didn’t have a Hall of Fame-worthy career. So, who should be the new Pete Rose of rock and roll? We nominate Quincy Jones. Leave your suggestions in the comments.
By the time I get in... I'll be an urn on my wife's fireplace. They don't call me the Pete Rose of Rock for nothing.
So to all my fans out there... please make your opinions known for THE MONEY MAN to be inducted into THE ROCK N ROLL HALL OF FAME IN 2013!!
Shouldn’t you be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?Ozzy Osbourne was similarly annoyed back when Black Sabbath were being nominated year after year but kept losing.
Yes we should. But as it’s taken so long, I’ve a mind that if it ever comes up, I would probably refuse it. I think it would probably be insulting. That’s my personal view — I’m not speaking for the other guys in the band. But I’ve seen so many nonentities get into it that I’m not sure it’s that hallowed a place anymore.
”Just take our name off the list," Ozzy's statement began. "Save the ink. Forget about us. The nomination is meaningless, because it's not voted on by the fans. It's voted on by the 'supposed' elite of the Industry and the Media, who've never bought an album or concert ticket in their lives, so their vote is totally irrelevant to me.”When Sabbath was eventually inducted in 2006 after eight nominations, Ozzy did accept the award.
He concluded, "Let's face it, Black Sabbath have never been media darlings. We're a people's band and that suits us just fine.”
Uber-Springsteen fan Gary Dell’abate brings up the fact that the E Street Band isn’t in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame with Bruce. Van Zandt doesn’t personally feel snubbed, but he feels Clarence Clemons, Max Weinberg and the rest of the band deserve to be honored. What Van Zandt fails to mention in the interview is the fact that he is one of the key people responsible for making those Hall of Fame selections! Not only is Van Zandt on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee, who come up with the ballot each year, he is also one of eight members on the sub-committee which selects the Musical Excellence Award winners each year, the category in which the E Street Band would likely qualify. All of that goes unmentioned by Van Zandt as he tried to defend Howard’s claim that the Hall of Fame is a joke. Van Zandt only said he was a supporter of the Rock Hall.
Listen to the rest of the Rock Hall talk in the next section.
Lemmy, there are lots of petitions online to try and get Motörhead into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Do you care about all of that?Motörhead is one of the Rock Hall’s more egregious snubs given their vast influence over the last 35 years. One of these days Lemmy will be inducted and we’ll see if he changes his tune at that point (unlikely).
Not at all. Have you been there? What a monumental waste of space. The biggest room there is the freaking gift shop. Do you know what I mean? It's all politics, that place. All a load of f---king politics.
Guns N’ Roses is the only band where the exact members have been confirmed -- the five original members, plus Dizzy Reed and Matt Sorum -- but that didn’t come directly from the Rock Hall.
The Red Hot Chili Peppers have a long history of band members, but so far, it’s unclear who is being inducted. There was a recent article where it claimed early drummer Cliff Martinez was being inducted, but again, nothing has come directly from the Rock Hall. The “Robert Trujillo Precedent” would imply that new guitarist Josh Klinghoffer would be inducted with the band, but that hasn’t been confirmed.
Just this week, former Beastie Boys collaborator, DJ Hurricane complained about not being included in the Rock Hall induction. Presumably just the three Beastie Boys are being inducted, but the Rock Hall hasn’t said anything publicly one way or another.
The joint induction of the Small Faces and the Faces contributes roughly a dozen different people who were members of either band. Will they all be inducted?
The Rock Hall should be able to confirm the inductees by the time the induction ceremony rolls around on April 14th.
Cher was on the Late Show with David Letterman over a year ago and Dave asked why Sonny & Cher weren’t in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (the relevant portion starts at 3:55).
It was an awkward exchange, highlighted by Paul Shaffer claiming with a wink that he didn’t know anyone at the Rock Hall, when in fact he has been on the Nominating Committee for years.
It’s common knowledge that nearly all of the questions during talk show interviews are pre-screened with the guest, so it’s interesting that Cher was theoretically willing to discuss the Rock Hall with Dave (and in the presence of Paul Shaffer no less). Her campaigning obviously didn’t work last year, but keep her in mind as a dark horse candidate for the 2013 ballot.
"I don't know," Perry says. "I'm not a big fan of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It's just a personal thing, not an ego thing. I think that, honestly, Journey doesn't need to be in the Hall of Fame. With everything we accomplished...we've had our Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, you know? It's in the hearts of the people out there and their experiences and their memories of what we did together and how we all had the time of our lives with the music that we loved to perform and they loved to hear. I really don't want someone to qualify it any more than that.”Perry’s dismissive sentiment towards the Rock Hall is common among snubbed artists (see also The Cars, Daryl Hall, Toto, etc.), but not many are willing to go the route of the Sex Pistols once they get inducted.
Stephen Colbert: Why aren't you guys in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Is it because you used steroids? Did you juice?The infamous Colbert Bump hasn't worked yet on the last band Colbert championed -- Rush -- although they have since been seriously considered by the Rock Hall Nominating Committee.
Ric Ocasek: You know I really don't know. I don't know if I want to be in it.
Ric: But if I did want to be in it, I don't know why we're not in it.
Stephen: There's no award I wouldn't accept. Can I have it if they give it to you? Can I have yours?
Ric: Well, yeah. I'll bring it in and you can put it up there.
The Cars (and Rush) are included on our list of the Rock Hall's Biggest Snubs.
"Only because... Didn't Metallica get in this year or last year or something? And I'm like, oh yeah, they've experienced and experimented with more of a pop angle, so I can definitely see them," he said. "Whether our time comes and people say, 'You're going to go into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.' I'd kind of be surprised if we did because we are the anti-everything."Slayer are one of the "big four" bands of thrash metal, along with Metallica, Anthrax and Megadeth, so they may have a good chance of getting in if the Hall of Fame ever decides to widen its net to cover heavier rock genres. Future Rock Legends currently gives Slayer a 30% chance of future induction.
Hetfield expressed some embarrassment at being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame before some acts who were an inspiration for Metallica. Metallica will be made a member of the illustrious club on April 4.Hetfield will have the chance to influence future inductions because as a Hall of Famer he gets to be on the Voting Committee. However, the importance of the voters has greatly diminished over the last few years because there are fewer artists placed on the ballot by the super-influential Nominating Committee. This year, two thirds of the artists who were on the ballot will be inducted.
"We've been nominated and we are still alive," he said.
"It's ironic that a band that has been inspired by all of these other ones are getting in there before them. We are going to go up there and kick some ass and kick the door down for some heavy bands that have not been recognized, like Rush and Kiss."
NHOR : I don't see [MTV] as being that interested in music anyway anymore for the most part...
SL : No, but it's just ironic because we were the 4th video ever played on MTV when they first started. We were there from the beginning. And they just shit on us. We also were the only band in history to turn down being on the cover of Rolling Stone. We told Jann Wenner to stick it up his ass.
NHOR : I guess that answers the question on whether or not Toto will ever be in The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame...
SL : We were never getting in anyway. It's amazing some of the people they're letting in now, and the people who have been left out. They put Patti Smith in there but not Deep Purple? What's the first song every kid learns how to play?
NHOR : "Smoke On The Water"...
SL : And they're not in the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame? The glaring omissions...Yes, Genesis...they don't like prog rock. They don't like anybody who has any chops, basically. All of the people who SHOULD have been in there were in the first couple years. It's not like the baseball hall of fame, where it's based on stats. If you have the stats, they don't have to like you. You deserve to be in there based on what you brought to the table. But I'm not going to get too much into it, because ultimately it's a boring conversation. You know what? I've got awards. I've got two houses full of gold records. I've got to start taking them down because it starts becoming ridiculous, like my own personal mausoleum. I'm not saying it wouldn't be cool to be in there, but at the same time, the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame has lost its cool because of the glaring omissions. Alice Cooper's not in there? They were the first theatrical band out there. When I was in junior high school, I went from 8th grade until 9th grade listening to 'School's Out.'
I could make up my own hall of fame that would have more credibility. It's also like Rolling Stone's 'Top 100 Guitar Players', where they leave anybody out who has any chops. Somebody even wrote a letter to them, "How come Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Lukather etc. aren't on there, and Kurt Cobain is?" Kurt Cobain was a great songwriter, but a great guitar player? I don't think so. Eddie Van Halen at #78? Gimme a break. (Laughs)
I'm just happy to have a job. I'm a musician, not a rock star. Anybody can be a rock star, apparently. It's manufactured, hyped, and that's how you become a rock star. But if you can really play, then people are actually threatened by you.
Founding member of Grand Funk Railroad, Mark Farner, had some strong words to say about his band's exclusion from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in a recent chat with Nightwatcher's House of Rock Interviews:
NHOR : What do you feel at this point are the chances of Grand Funk Railroad ever getting into the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame? Why do you think the band isn't in there already?Future Rock Hall currently gives Grand Funk Railroad just a 12% chance at future induction.
MF : I think it's political. I think it's because we haven't obtained the brown ring around the mouth from kissing somebody's hind end. That's not who I am. I'm not going to bow to that god. It's only important to me at all for the fans, for the sake of the fans. From that viewpoint, yes. Because it is something which is supposed to be representative, but it's the same thing as where the Congress of the United States is supposed to be representative of us by coining and controlling the money. But that ain't happening either.
"A lot of those guys on the [Nominating Committee] board can go and get my sandwich when I want, and I mean that in the nicest way," he said. "There are disco bands, rap bands, Yiddish folk song bands in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but not Kiss. I believe we have more gold records in America than any other group, but it's OK."
Simmons is probably just trying to be outrageous for his reality show, which was filming his speech, but he has a right to be bitter towards certain members of the Nominating Committee who have effectively black-balled them from the process.
As much as the Beasties want to be part of people's reasons to get out and vote next month, [Michael] Diamond says they're not as concerned about another vote: whether or not the group gets inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The Beasties were nominated last year but not inducted; this year, they didn't even get a nomination.We'll see if the Beastie Boys will still be "against all that" (like the Sex Pistols) when they inevitably get inducted some day.
As if to prove that all of their politicking isn't just an attempt to increase their stature and legitimacy, the Beasties think they're better off not getting the Rock Hall nod.
"We didn't realize we were nominated at first, and then we thought it was kind of funny," says Diamond. "Then, when we didn't get in, we thought, 'This is for the best.' No disrespect, but I think we like being against all that. When you get down to it, we're a hardcore band and a hip-hop band, and we don't need to be part of all that."
Daryl Hall recently sat down for an interview with the UK magazine, Record Collector. Naturally, the topic of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame came up:
Question: It's puzzling why Hall & Oates are not in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.
Daryl Hall: Who cares about the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame? They're f-ing dinosaurs too. Maybe we'll get in and maybe we won't. It depends on who's running it, once these old fools get out there with their old agenda. If you said The Ramones were the greatest band in the world, you can't possibly let us into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.
Hall & Oates have been eligible for eleven years and they have never been seriously considered by the Nominating Committee. So it's good that Daryl Hall isn't bitter about the snub.
Update: John Oates was also asked why he thought Hall & Oates weren't in the Rock Hall yet:
"There is a lot of politics involved," Oates said. "There are a lot of personalities involved. I personally feel we deserve it and that goes without saying. But we're not in a position to dictate that kind of thing.
"You know, Daryl and I were voted into the American Songwriters Hall of Fame about four years ago and we were also won the BMI Icon Award (on May 20, 2008, as part of the 56th annual Pop Awards), both of which are awards for songwriting. And for us, personally, I find it satisfying to be in that category and to be among the people in the Songwriters Hall of Fame.
"For me, it's all about the songs and all about the songwriting and that's how we started and I think that's essence of what Daryl and I do individually and collectively, so I'm proud of that. If the day comes and we get voted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, that will be amazing; I'll be there with bells on. But until that happens I won't lose any sleep over it."Thanks, Tom.
NHOR : Alice was quoted earlier this year as saying he kind of likes the idea of being blackballed from the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. Do you think Alice really thinks that, and would you agree with his comments, that it's more of an honor not to be in there than to actually be in there?Smith's dig at the Talking Heads makes him seem out of touch with what the Hall of Fame is about, but he brings up an interesting point about whether or not the entire group would be inducted, or just Cooper himself.
NS : Well, I know a little bit about the politics around the hall, so I'm not really at liberty to say anything about that. I think whatever he thinks are his thoughts and opinions. I would like to be in there, but the way I look at it the true band Alice Cooper pissed people off way back then, and apparently we are still doing it. When you think of the things we started then, there's a whole vein of music which didn't exist before us. Everybody from Kiss all the way up to Marilyn Manson. All the bands in between in that vein were one way or another inspired by Alice Cooper. I read, and hear things from people all the way up to this day all the time, that they wouldn't be playing an instrument if it weren't for us.
Steve Vai, the first album he ever learned from beginning to end was 'Love It To Death'. A lot of great musicians, and just that whole vein of music, the shock rock thing, or whatever you want to call it was brought upon by us. And to totally ignore that, and pass it over year after year just surprises me, that's all. My spin on it is if we're blackballed, who needs 'em anyway. I look at it as we're still ruffling feathers after all this time. Somewhere, somebody doesn't set easy with us. But you know what? When we were with Warner Brothers, they were ready to cancel our contract after every single album. We had to renegotiate after every single one. They kept thinking it was a fluke. The only ones who believed in us were us and Shep Gordon, our manager. That was it, and our fans. We had to cut a demo for 'Love It To Death'. It was always a fight and a struggle for us. So the fact that somewhere somebody doesn't like us, that's fine with me. (Laughs)
NHOR : Well, let's face it Neal, the Alice Cooper Band was never one of Rolling Stone Magazine's darlings, which seems to be a criteria to being inducted...
NS : I always said that, the magazine's not called, "Alice Cooper", it's called "Rolling Stone". And bearing in mind with what you just brought up, and I'm not going to elaborate on it much more, but we're talking about that whole San Francisco area there. Which does have a lot of influence on what goes on with the Hall. It's all politics, and there's nothing wrong with The Talking Heads, but when I saw that they got in I said, "You've got to be kidding me". I know they had a couple of hit songs but I can't even really tell you what they are. The Alice Cooper 'Greatest Hits' album is really a greatest hits album. How many records did they sell? I don't know.
I think they should start up a Shock And Roll Hall Of Fame. The Hall Of Fame's cool, I've been there, and it's got some great stuff. The majority of the people who are in there certainly deserve to be in there and it's cool for the fans. And the other question is, if it happens, are they going to put Alice in by himself, or the whole band? That would be the biggest kick in the head for us, if they'd put Alice in by himself. Actually, I've had a couple people I've talked to from the Hall in New York, and they've said, "Believe me, everybody knows the original band was THE band".
NHOR : Do you think that Alice would actually accept an induction without the rest of the original band being voted in as well?
NS : He didn't have any problem accepting the Alice Cooper star on Hollywood Boulevard, did he? He actually had the balls to tell me, "I actually thought of you guys". You thought about us? Gimme a break. We used to walk up and down that street starving every day, day after day, thinking someday we'd have our name there, and it gets there and you're by yourself. That's awful nice you thought about us. I think it's great that it's there, but sometimes it's better to say nothing than to say something that stupid. That band was put together through the blood, sweat and tears of 5 people. Each one of them deserves 100% credit, not just one getting 500% of the credit. That's the reason Dennis is writing a book and I'm writing a book. It's just a factual documentation of what we went through.
[Jones] told me he'd given up on being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, possibly because Rolling Stone publisher Jann Wenner hadn't liked it when Jones started Vibe magazine. This week, for the zillionth time, Jones was overlooked despite his enormous contribution to rock, R&B and jazz.The Wenner blackball is really the only logical explanation for the absence of Jones from the Rock Hall. Given his career, he is certainly deserving of the Non-Performer honor if not the Lifetime Achievement award.
Friedman is a little premature in stating that Jones has been passed over again this year since the Sidemen, Non-Performer, and Lifetime Achievement awards will be announced in January with the inductees in the Performer category. It is still unknown what the selection process is for those other awards, but they are presumably picked by a select few members of the Nominating Committee along with Wenner.
Update: From the comments, Joe has another possible reason for the Quincy Jones snub:
A listing in "The New Book of Rock Lists" (Dave Marsh and James Bernard, 1994, p312), in a subchapter titled "Worst Career Moves", suggests a different reason: Jones was selected to give the speech inducting Neshui Ertegun into the Hall. The speech "said little about Ertegun but a great deal about himself...[mostly] concerning his own qualifications for the Hall. Those twenty minutes probably cost Quincy whatever chance he may have had for induction, at least during his lifetime, since all inductees give speeches and nobody's about to risk sitting through another of his." (Any spelling or grammatical errors are mine.)
Wilson adds that she hopes recognition from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame comes next, though she feels it's hardest to come by, especially since they're a female-fronted band.Wilson isn't kidding when she talks about the Rock Hall as a brotherhood. Fewer than 15% of the artists who have been enshrined are women or have a woman in their group. Whether or not that's a fair representation of the overall rock artist population, we're not sure. The Rock Hall does like to keep women in mind when making its nominations -- there has been a woman or woman-fronted group nominated every year since the Rock Hall's inception in 1986.
"It's harder to be taken seriously by the brotherhood. So it might take the Hall of Fame people long to figure it out," she says. "But we're serious about our art, and there's no band like this: an original, authentic, vital rock band. People realize it more now and appreciate it."
Metro Times: You have so many awards and accolades. Why aren't you in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?Sharp's former husband, Kenny Gamble was inducted in 2008 in the Non-Performer category.
Sharp: [laughs] That's a good question! I got a Rhythm & Blues award in 2001. But I don't know. I can't answer that. Maybe I'm just not blessed enough; I don't know.
MT: Well, you should be.
Sharp: Well, I appreciate that. But I found that sometimes tooting your own horn just doesn't work. But I really can't answer why I'm not in. I do know that I was the first woman to do a lot of things. I was the first African-American woman to ever be placed on the cover of 16 Magazine. So I don't understand. I have no idea as to why I'm not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It's ridiculous as well that I don't have a star on the Walk of Fame in Philadelphia.
Future Rock Hall currently gives Dee Dee Sharp a 3% chance at future induction.
Stephen Colbert asked the band, "You are yet to be inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Is there any chance that your next album will be titled That's Bullshit?"
Rush's exclusion from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a common thread through these media appearances and Wired's Listening Post is trying to get to the bottom of the issue. Wired's Scott Thill has a Rock Hall contact in Cleveland who will answer three questions about Rush and the induction process, and he is seeking input on what to ask.
Although it's unlikely Rush will be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2009 (after 10 years of waiting), there are signs that this might be the best chance they've had in years. Never underestimate the Colbert Bump.
Sonic Youth became eligible for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame last year, and despite being one of the most important and influential artists of the last 20 years, they didn't get nominated. Guitarist and singer Thurston Moore was asked by the Washington Post about the Rock Hall:
Do you think Sonic Youth will ever be voted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Do you care?Moore's cynical attitude about the Rock Hall process certainly isn't unfounded, but the "cabal" he refers to isn't what it used to be. As the years go on, it will be harder and harder for the Hall of Fame to ignore Sonic Youth's contributions to experimental and alternative music.
I have no problem with awards or awards ceremonies. I don't take issue with them; what it means is that people are celebrating your work in some capacity. But the Hall of Fame - whatever. It's a certain cabal of people who created this institution. It's not like real people are voting. It's like the Grammys. Very rarely does something win that doesn't have to do with sales of the record or the lobbying of the record label or management. It's the same thing with the Hall of Fame. You start lobbying your artist a decade early and the cabal votes. But that was before the Sex Pistols got in, so who knows?
Future Rock Hall predicts that Sonic Youth has a 58% chance at induction, one of the highest ratings of the eligible artists. Here's to hoping they get in sooner rather than later.
In 2006, Rock Hall snubs KISS, Def Leppard and Judas Priest were all honored (as well as Hall of Famers Queen). In 2007, three more Hall of Fame outsiders, Heart, Genesis, and Ozzy Osbourne were featured (ZZ Top too). Going in a different direction this year, the show focuses exclusively on The Who (inducted into the Rock Hall in 1990).
It's not hard to imagine that future years of Rock Honors could pay respects to Mötley Crüe, Iron Maiden, Rush, Motörhead and others who probably aren't going to get much attention from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame anytime soon.
The band was asked about their being snubbed by the Rock Hall in the article:
Self-effacing poise may be rare to arena rockers, but like Green Party candidates and Nascar heroes, the members of Rush have adjusted to both idolatry and disregard. Just prior to tonight's dinner, they were once again snubbed by the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, which instead inducted no greater rock luminaries than the Dave Clark Five. But Rush seem convincingly unfazed.Guitarist Alex Lifeson also talked to Cincinnati.com recently about the issue:
"I just keep saying we're too young to be in there," says [Geddy] Lee.
"Yeah," says [Neil] Peart. "Unlike all those other people, we're still working."
"I think it upsets our fans," allows [Alex] Lifeson. "It's a big issue for them."
"It doesn't matter at all," Lifeson says. "If we were inducted it would mean we'd probably have to go up there (to Cleveland) and play there."Some Rush fans have resigned themselves to the idea that Rush will never get in, so they petitioned for a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, which Rush was given this year.
Though they still come out with fresh experiments like [their new concept album, Nostradamus], Priest have been banging their heads for more than three decades. But the veterans have never been considered for inclusion in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, despite being eligible since 1999. Tipton said it's an honor the band would welcome but one he doesn't expect anytime soon.Maybe in researching the new album, Tipton discovered the writings where Nostradamus predicted that Judas Priest would be inducted in 2009. Given the current constitution of the Nominating Committee, it will probably take a lot longer than that before 70's and 80's metal get recognized by the Hall of Fame.
"We'd absolutely be honored by it, but we have no control over that," he said. "Besides, we haven't been noticed for 30 years. Maybe they'll notice us now that we've crossed that 30-year mark."
His case for Chicago:
Chicago... were revolutionaries. "CTA," "Chicago," "III," "V," "VI" and "XI" pushed the limits on conceptual boundaries and displayed superb musicianship. And they had hits, which has somehow been labeled as a sin over time.Both Chicago and the Doobies are fan favorites, but each have been eligible for over 10 years without a single nomination, so they have to be considered long shots for future induction until the Rock Hall reconsiders the 70's.
I have been appalled by the acts that have made it in ahead of them. It shows the bias of the hall's voters - they are either too old to have the wistful childhood memories of the early '70s or too young to fully appreciate how distinctive they were in the pop landscape at the time. Chicago made a difference back then.
Idolator came up with a list of 70's snubs:
Captain Beefheart & The Magic Band
Electric Light Orchestra
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Hall & Oates
KC & The Sunshine Band
Richard & Linda Thompson
Three Dog Night
Loudon Wainwright III
"We've done tours with the Pretenders, the Go-Go's, Tom Tom Club, Blondie," Schneider says, rattling off several of B-52's' musical era contemporaries.Actually, the Nominating Committee has not completely ignored the B-52's, but they still haven't made it to the final ballot.
"Each time, each band had a new album out, so it was groups from the past with new records," he says. "It wasn't like an oldies tour. Well, except for us."
What most of those groups also have is a spot in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. (The Go-Go's the one exception, with the Tom Tom Club in through the back door as members of Talking Heads.)
The B-52's were eligible for the hall in 2004 – 25 years after their debut album appeared – but have so far been ignored by the nominating committee, possibly because their songs were always frothy, fun party music.
"We created our own genre," Schneider notes, which should count for something in Hall of Fame consideration. "We should have been in four years ago. The most recent years, (the acts) who got in are sort of our peers.
"But what can you do? Hopefully I'll be in there (some day) so my mother can have this plaque or something on the mantle.
Future Rock Hall projects that the B-52's have a 44% chance for induction.
The star is disappointed he is continually turned down by the panel - even though he thinks he has made a very significant contribution to the industry.
He says, "It makes me wonder. I've paid my dues, I think, and I think I've done good work. I'd like to be in there with my peers.
"Maybe you just have to keep doing it and I'll get in there some day."
The vast majority of Future Rock Hall voters (87%) are confident that Neil Diamond will one day be inducted.
Thanks, David & Tom
1. You have to rock. If Janis Joplin, Bon Scott or Joe Strummer wouldn’t have toasted your tunes with a pint, you’re out.Gottlieb wants no part of Madonna, Leonard Cohen, The Lovin' Spoonful, The Eagles, The Bee Gees, Miles Davis, James Taylor, Jackson Browne, or John Mellencamp. In their place he wants to honor many of the popular snubbed artists: Beastie Boys, Lou Reed, The Cars, The Stooges, KISS, and The Cure. Check out the full column here.
2. You have to blow minds. The Beatles and Hendrix switched the world from black and white to color. Well, you gotta do that. Or at least come close.
3. You have to have done at least one thing that categorically qualifies as rock ’n’ roll: lighting your guitar on fire, getting busy with your 14-year-old cousin or writing a letter to the Hall of Fame calling it a, um, urine stain after being inducted (as the Sex Pistols did) all qualify.
Hidden Track also comes up with a list of 10 bands they want to see inducted: Tom Waits, The Cure, Genesis, Rush, Willie Nelson, The Stooges, KISS, Metallica, Sonic Youth, and Alice Cooper. Videos, career highlights and ten more names at Glide Magazine.
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee could do a lot worse than start with the names from these two lists when they're putting the ballot together for 2009.
Have to ask you this: How do you feel about not being recognized by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?Although they have never been nominated for induction, the Nominating Committee has seriously considered them. In any case, Future Rock Hall currently gives them a 41% chance at eventual induction.
I'm am so annoyed! So [angry]! You can quote me on that. [Dramatic pause.] No, I don't care. [Laughs.] When it happens, it will happen. It never bothered me until 10 years ago. The manager who was managing Yes said 'I'm going to put you in the Hall of Fame next year' and we said 'cool.' And then it didn't happen. We said, 'What happened?' He said, 'They don't want you.' It went on for five, six years, with him making this pitch. ... When it happens it will happen.
Craig: Hey, I wanted to ask you something. This is something that came to my attention today. And I am furious, furious about this. Wait until you hear about this, you're going to lose your minds with rage. You're not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.A full 95% of Future Rock Hall voters believe Cooper should get in. The Nominating Committee has certainly discussed Cooper in the past, but he has never made the final ballot.
Craig: Ah! I can't believe that! They've got Madonna in there! They've got that Alf the alien puppet in there! I can't believe that. Did you piss someone off?
Alice: I must have stepped on someone's glasses or something. No honestly, I don't know how they work it. It's not a popularity contest.
Alice: It's who they decide that's going to be in the Hall of Fame. The longer I stay out the better the story gets. Because apparently I did something really bad to somebody. I can't imagine what.
Craig: What you mean is you can't remember what.
Alice: I've been a model citizen in rock and roll. I think the best thing in the world would be to get kicked out of the Hall of Fame.
Craig: What are they going to kick you out for, "You were using drugs when you were making that music!" "Yeah, yes I was."
Alice: I'll tell them,"I haven't had a drink in 25 years. You're outta here!"
Craig: Yeah, that would be it. You weren't using drugs. You claimed you were using drugs, but you weren't. "Get out."
Alice: Everyone thinks it's a popularity contest, and you can call in and vote. You can't. You get nominated and then you get either in or you're out. I'm sort of the Pete Rose of rock and roll right now. And I didn't even bet on my band.
Alice Cooper's quip that he's the "Pete Rose of rock and roll" doesn't seem quite right since he's not being kept out of the Hall of Fame because of a scandal. Who is a better baseball player comparison? Andre Dawson? Jim Rice? Bert Blyleven?
There are plenty of Hall of Fame artists who were not inducted in their first year of eligibility, such as AC/DC, Queen, Aerosmith, Michael Jackson, Pink Floyd, and many more. There is little doubt that Metallica will be inducted into the Rock Hall at some point in the near future, it just won't be in 2008.
You're not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. What are your thoughts on the British progressive rock bands being overlooked?It seems the thought-base [of the Hall] is that it's geared toward more guitar-oriented bands. I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but I think it's odd. It would be nice to be in there, but it's not something I'm going to worry about.Over the last 14 years, the Rock Hall Nominating Committee seems to have made its decision that Genesis isn't worthy of induction. That's not to say that can't change as the Committee members turn over, but at this point it would be a long shot.
Do you hear the music of Genesis reflected in current bands?I know bands like Coldplay ... Chris Martin said he enjoyed our stuff. I think in the last few years what's quite nice is that English bands have reappeared a bit. Snow Patrol, Coldplay, bands who create moods and atmospheres again. For a long time in America, these bands couldn't get in the top 30. Now, these atmospheric bands are coming back in America, I think. It's a sound that America doesn't really do, does it?
In 2004, the Rock Hall leaked a list of all of the previously nominated artists, as well as a list of artists who have been discussed at the Nominating Committee meetings over the past 18 years or so, but have never made the ballot. It's a rare and fascinating look into the musical tastes of the Nominating Committee members:
So, since there is such intrigue on who almost made the final ballot--and there have been some well publicized run-offs, here are the runners-up:The only artists out of that group that have since been nominated are Van Halen, the Ronettes, the Dave Clark Five, Buddy Guy and the Paul Butterfield Blues Band. Everyone else is still waiting to get on the ballot.
Average White Band
Jeff Beck (solo artist--a Hall of Famer with The Yardbirds)
The Big Bopper
The Paul Butterfield Band
Country Joe & the Fish
Dave Clark Five
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
E Street Band
The Five Satins
Flying Burrito Bros.
The J. Geils Band
Tommy James and the Shondells
The Last Poets
Little Anthony and the Imperials
Marshall Tucker Band
Steve Miller Band
Huey Smith & the Clowns
Sonny & Cher
Spencer Davis Group
Three Dog Night
Billy Ward & His Dominoes
Take a look here for a list of artists who are eligible.
I wasn't a big Monkees fan, because, um, I don't know why I wasn't, but I tell you now, I like the records better now that I'm an old guy. You're on the oldies stations all the time. And you know what, Mr. Jones, you guys deserve to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame... and I'm gonna try to make it happen for ya.Now there's a ringing endorsement.
The indie legends are reported to be among the groups set for induction into the music pantheon next year in New York City.
However, the band's iconic former singer has apparently already ruled out attending the ceremony because of an ongoing rivalry with drummer Mike Joyce.
The Smiths were embroiled in an acrimonious lawsuit over royalties in 1996, and Morrissey has always spoken bitterly about his former bandmate.
"Morrissey has never forgiven Joyce and if organizers think he's going to bury the hatchet by joining him to accept this award, they've got another thing coming. The only way he could be persuaded to turn up would be if Joyce decides not to attend," a source explained.
Thanks, David & Tom
Peter Tork... says the Monkees merit consideration for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but one man opposes their induction.Wenner is often accused of using his clout to keep out a particular band, but it seems unlikely he's the only obstacle in their way to being inducted.
"The only person ... holding a grudge is Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone," says the former Monkee. The magazine editor "has never written a gracious word. He personally has the veto power to keep us out."
Wenner - who didn't reply to an interview request - allegedly denounces Tork, Dolenz, Davy Jones and Mike Nesmith for not playing their own instruments on the band's first albums.
In this "American Idol" era, when acts are "manufactured" like toasters, fewer critics crucify the Monkees for being a TV show that spawned a band. So have they faced an unfair standard? Were they, in fact, a "real" group?
"I've not heard the slightest murmur about the Monkees being fake," Tork, 65, says from his Connecticut home. "Everybody's forgotten it, except Wenner. He's been vicious."
One Rolling Stone reporter, Tork says, wrote a glowing story crystallizing their merits. But before publication, Tork adds, "The writer said, 'Jann took my article, gutted it and rewrote it to [bury] you.'"
[The Max Weinberg 7 plays returning from commercial break.]Max Weinberg, Conan's band leader and drummer of Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, is correct about his exclusion from the Rock Hall. Surprisingly, the E Street Band wasn't included when Bruce was inducted back in 1999.
Chris Rock: You know Max... Max got the funk tonight! Are you in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Max?
Max Weinberg: No, no.
Conan O'Brien: What are you talking about? What do you mean, the E-Street Band is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Max Weinberg: No, actually. No. No, I looked last night. No.
Conan: You check every night?
Max: Yes, yes I do.
Conan: You go online every night to Rock and Roll Hall of Fame dot com?
Chris: What happened, you bet on baseball?
Max: [looks puzzled] Yeah!
Conan: You should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and I'm going to see to it that you are!
Max: Okay, thank you Conan! I love you! [applause]
Chris: We gotta do somethin about that, man.
Conan: Why would you applaud that? I have no power.
Chris: Isn't Tone Loc in?
Conan: Tone Loc is in, yeah...
Chris: [to Max] And you're not in? That's horrible, man.
Conan: Funky Cold Medina is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Chris: Young MC is in there.
Conan: Oh yeah.
Chris: Color Me Badd, they in there! You really must have pissed somebody off!
Max: Yes, yes.
Conan: We're going to find out more about this. We're going to find out what you did.
So, Conan, it's your move. If you need help getting Max into the Hall of Fame, just let us know.
At one time in the '70s and early '80s, instrumentally adroit bands such as Yes, Genesis, Emerson, Lake and Palmer and The Moody Blues ruled radio-land, with others -- King Crimson, Rush, Jethro Tull, The Electric Light Orchestra -- dabbling in similar approaches but with their own unique stylings.USA Today, in their feature story about the Rock Hall, highlights the arguments for many of the famously snubbed artists, such as Rush, Kiss and Alice Cooper. In most cases, it's the fans who are the ones who feel snubbed, not the artists themselves:
For good or bad, the genre has spawned dozens of stepchildren, from Styx to Supertramp, from the Alan Parsons Project to Kate Bush, from Dream Theater to Porcupine Tree. But just try to find a prog-rock band among the 153 inductees thus far.
Let me save you time, because there's only one: Pink Floyd...
When I called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum in Cleveland the other day, curatorial director Howard Kramer declined comment on the situation, noting all inductions are handled by the Hall of Fame Foundation.
But he conceded the fan contingent backing "prog-rock probably is the most vocal" in e-mailing and campaigning for the genre, which certainly has been represented in museum exhibits if not the Hall of Fame itself.
Singer/guitarist James Young of Styx, a progressive rock band eligible since 1997, is accustomed to musical ostracism.
"Like any sort of competition for awards, it's decided by human beings who have bias," he says, noting that Styx has been copiously rewarded in record and ticket sales. "I celebrate the people who went to the trouble to form the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Without it, I'm not sure a lot of black artists would have been recognized."
Besides, he hasn't given up. "How long did it take for Martin Scorsese to win an Oscar?" he says.
AVC: The A.V. Club recently did a feature weighing the possibility of various bands making the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. We said XTC wouldn't make it. Do you think it will?Partiridge dismisses his chances too quickly. As allmusic.com says, "XTC's music stands as some of the best and most influential pop of their era." It may take ten years, but XTC may be one of the bands that will get recognized for their musical legacy.
AP: I hope not! Hard Rock Café sent a letter asking if they could have one of my guitars. I just said, "Fuck off! Of course not, I bought that, you go buy one." No, we won't make the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. You know why? Because it's down to sales figures, ultimately, and we never sold that many records, because we were too off-the-wall for most people. A lot of people really don't like what we do. I don't think it's anything unusual. I think it's kind of interesting pop music. It's guitar, bass, and drums. It's really pretty damn straight stuff. But for some reason, people think I'm expecting them to eat barbed-wire salad with fetus in it.
The artists from this year who still have the best chances for future induction are The Replacements, Hüsker Dü, and New Order. All worthy bands, who laid the groundwork for countless artists, but not necessarily the type of platinum-selling artists who are slam-dunks for the Hall (like R.E.M. next year).
The rest of the snubbed class from 1980 can be found here. Who's your favorite from that year? Let us know in the comments.
Update: It appears the class of '81 hasn't been snubbed. It's the class of 1980 that failed to have a representative in last year's nominees. The 2007 Induction Ceremony actually honors the artists who were inducted in 2006. (thanks, Ben)