You can check in right here for live updates during the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony on Saturday night. There is no official live stream or broadcast of the event. HBO will premiere an edited version of the ceremony on May 5th, but if you can’t wait that long, we will have frequent updates from inside Public Auditorium in Cleveland.
Update: You can see all Future Rock Legends tweets over on Twitter.
Let’s take a close look at what Rose wrote and what he might be trying to say between the lines.
To: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame, Guns N' Roses Fans and Whom It May Concern,
When the nominations for the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame were first announced I had mixed emotions but, in an effort to be positive, wanting to make the most of things for the fans and with their enthusiasm, I was honored, excited and hoped that somehow this would be a good thing. Of course I realized as things stood, if Guns N' Roses were to be inducted it'd be somewhat of a complicated or awkward situation.
Since then we've listened to fans, talked with members of the board of the Hall Of Fame, communicated with and read various public comments and jabs from former members of Guns N' Roses, had discussions with the president of the Hall Of Fame, read various press (some legit, some contrived) and read other artists' comments weighing in publicly on Guns and the Hall with their thoughts.
Under the circumstances I feel we've been polite, courteous, and open to an amicable solution in our efforts to work something out. Taking into consideration the history of Guns N' Roses, those who plan to attend along with those the Hall for reasons of their own, have chosen to include in "our" induction (that for the record are decisions I don't agree with, support or feel the Hall has any right to make), and how (albeit no easy task) those involved with the Hall have handled things... no offense meant to anyone but the Hall Of Fame Induction Ceremony doesn't appear to be somewhere I'm actually wanted or respected.
Axl has a BIG problem with the fact that the Rock Hall decided, apparently without his input, which members of Guns N’ Roses got inducted. The Rock Hall chose to induct the original five members, plus Matt Sorum and Dizzy Reed. With the exception of Reed, none of those guys are still with the band, and Axl appears to feel his current lineup should be included as well. And why shouldn’t he? All he had to do was look at fellow 2012 inductees, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, to see that new guitarist Josh Klinghoffer is somehow getting inducted after just three years as an official member of the band (under the Trujillo precedent). Axl has worked with a bunch of different people since the mid-nineties, but there are members of the current GNR that he has worked with for over a decade now. The Rock Hall has recently been taking a much more inclusive stance with inductees, so why shouldn’t they be inducted? Oddly enough, the Rock Hall may have been waffling on this issue. They hadn’t publicly released the inducted members list, and only updated the Guns N’ Roses bio on their website this week to make it official. They could have changed their mind without having to backtrack.
Axl may have also had a problem negotiating the performance aspect of the induction ceremony. Don’t forget that when Van Halen was inducted in 2007, the negotiations about the song selection caused David Lee Roth to stay home. Rock Hall president Joel Peresman said this about the incident,“"We made every effort and the decision not to come was solely his, not ours."”Hmm… Expect a similar statement from the Rock Hall about Axl Rose to surface soon.
For the record, I would not begrudge anyone from Guns their accomplishments or recognition for such. Neither I or anyone in my camp has made any requests or demands of the Hall Of Fame. It's their show not mine.
Axl makes it clear here that he wasn’t trying to keep Slash or anyone out of the Hall of Fame.
That said, I won't be attending The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Induction 2012 Ceremony and I respectfully decline my induction as a member of Guns N' Roses to the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.
I strongly request that I not be inducted in absentia and please know that no one is authorized nor may anyone be permitted to accept any induction for me or speak on my behalf. Neither former members, label representatives nor the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame should imply whether directly, indirectly or by omission that I am included in any purported induction of "Guns N' Roses”.
Boom. There have been plenty of artists over the years who haven’t shown up to the Induction Ceremony (most infamously, the Sex Pistols), but this is the first time an artist has actually declined the induction. It appears that the Rock Hall is going to ignore Rose’s request and induct him anyway. The glass has already been etched on the Hall of Fame wall in the museum.
This decision is personal. This letter is to help clarify things from my and my camp's perspective. Neither is meant to offend, attack or condemn. Though unfortunately I'm sure there will be those who take offense (God knows how long I'll have to contend with the fallout), I certainly don't intend to disappoint anyone, especially the fans, with this decision. Since the announcement of the nomination we've actively sought out a solution to what, with all things considered, appears to be a no win, at least for me, "damned if I do, damned if I don't" scenario all the way around.
In regard to a reunion of any kind of either the Appetite or Illusion lineups, I've publicly made myself more than clear. Nothing's changed.
Yup, Axl really does hate Slash.
The only reason, at this point, under the circumstances, in my opinion whether under the guise of "for the fans" or whatever justification of the moment, for anyone to continue to ask, suggest or demand a reunion are misguided attempts to distract from our efforts with our current lineup of myself, Dizzy Reed, Tommy Stinson, Frank Ferrer, Richard Fortus, Chris Pitman, Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal and DJ Ashba.
Again, sticking up for his current band.
Izzy came out with us a few times back in '06 and I invited him to join us at our LA Forum show last year. Steven was at our show at the Hard Rock, later in '06 in Las Vegas, where I invited him to our after-party and was rewarded with his subsequent interviews filled with reunion lies. Lesson learned. Duff joined us in 2010 and again in '11 along with his band, Loaded, opening in Seattle and Vancouver. For me, with the exception of Izzy or Duff joining us on stage if they were so inclined somewhere in the future for a song or two, that's enough.
There's a seemingly endless amount of revisionism and fantasies out there for the sake of self-promotion and business opportunities masking the actual realities. Until every single one of those generating from or originating with the earlier lineups has been brought out in the light, there isn't room to consider a conversation let alone a reunion.
Is Axl waiting for an apology? Do Slash and Steven Adler even know what they would be apologizing for at this point?
Maybe if it were you it'd be different. Maybe you'd do it for this reason or that. Peace, whatever. I love our band now. We're there for each other when the going get's rough. We love our fans and work to give them every ounce of energy and heart we can.
So let sleeping dogs lie or lying dogs sleep or whatever. Time to move on. People get divorced. Life doesn't owe you your own personal happy ending especially at another's, or in this case several others', expense.
No, fans aren’t owed anything. But it’s easy to see a giant missed opportunity and wish it were different.
But hey if ya gotta then maybe we can get the "no show, grandstanding, publicity stunt, disrespectful, he doesn't care about the fans" crap out of the way as quickly as we can and let's move on. No one's taking the ball and going home. Don't get it twisted. For more than a decade and a half we've endured the double standards, the greed of this industry and the ever present seemingly limitless supply of wannabes and unscrupulous, irresponsible media types. Not to imply anything in this particular circumstance, but from my perspective in regard to both the Hall and a reunion, the ball's never been in our court.
”It’s not me, it’s you.”
In closing, regardless of this decision and as hard to believe or as ironic as it may seem, I'd like to sincerely thank the board for their nomination and their votes for Guns' induction. More importantly I'd like to thank the fans for being there over the years, making any success we've had possible and for enjoying and supporting Guns N' Roses music.
I wish the Hall a great show, congratulations to all the other artists being inducted and to our fans we look forward to seeing you on tour!!
P.S. RIP Armand, Long Live ABC III
Guns N’ Roses fans were indeed hoping for a reunion, even it was extremely unlikely. Even the original five were never going to perform together at the ceremony, it would have been cool to at least see them on stage together to accept their award. Clearly, Axl Rose didn’t see it that way. Hey, it’s his legacy, he can do what he wants with it.
So, how will the Rock Hall handle the sticky situation of a GNR induction now? We know that Green Day will be doing the induction speech, but what about a performance? We don’t see Green Day covering GNR like they did for the Ramones. Our theory is that now that Axl is out of the way, Slash, Duff and Steven Adler can perform with Kid Rock on vocals. (Supposedly, Kid Rock and Axl are on the outs, so maybe Kid Rock won’t mind pissing off his old friend.) What else is Kid Rock going to do at the ceremony if he’s not doing some GNR songs? We’ll all find out on Saturday night.
Future Rock Legends will again be in Cleveland to cover the event live and will be posting updates all weekend and during the induction ceremony on Saturday night to our Twitter feed (also cross-posted on our site here).
If you happen to see anyone with a Future Rock Legends t-shirt, be sure to stop and say hello!
Gym Class Heroes' Travie McCoy to Perform at 2012 Rock Hall Induction Ceremony (for the Beastie Boys?)
Gym Class Heroes is an “alternative hip hop collective” and McCoy is their MC. So… connecting the dots, does this mean that McCoy is going to be performing for the Beastie Boys at the Induction Ceremony? The Beasties haven’t performed in nearly three years, primarily due to MCA’s battle with salivary gland cancer. Many of us were hoping they would make their comeback by performing at the induction ceremony when they accept their award.
There has been almost no news regarding the Beastie Boys since it was announced they were inducted in December. No confirmation they are attending. No word from the Rock Hall about a performance. All we know is Chuck D will be inducting them.
Hopefully our speculation is misguided, and Travie McCoy will be putting a different spin on old Laura Nyro classics, but we don’t think so.
Update: Uh oh, Gym Class Heroes covered “No Sleep Till Brooklyn” at the 2009 VH1 Hip Hop Honors.
Update 2: It looks like the Roots, LL Cool J and Mix Master Mike will possibly be part of the Beastie Boys tribute as well.
Inductee official accounts:
- @Slash -- former GNR
- @AxlRose -- GNR
- @DuffMcKagan -- former GNR
- @IzzyStradlin -- former GNR
- @AdlerRocks -- former GNR
- @DizzyReed -- GNR
- @MattSorum -- former GNR
- @gilbyclarke -- former GNR
- @bumblefoot -- GNR
- @DJASHBA -- GNR
- @tommy_stinson -- GNR
- @PerlaFHudson -- Slash’s wife
- @adrock -- Beastie Boy Ad Rock
- @RHCPchad -- RHCP’s Chad Smtih
- @flea333 -- RHCP’s Flea
- @Ian_McLagan -- The Small Faces
- @RealRonnieWood -- The Faces
- @R0bbieR0berts0n -- inducting Matassa, Johns and Dowd
- @MsDarleneLove -- performing at the Museum’s simulcast (possibly the ceremony?)
- @Smokey_Robinson -- inducting the backing groups
- @MrChuckD -- inducting the Beastie Boys
- @johnmellencamp -- inducting Donovan
- @StevieVanZandt -- inducting the Small / Faces
- @BillyFGibbons -- inducting Freddie King
- @Carole_King -- inducting Don Kirshner
- @BetteMidler -- inducting Laura Nyro
- @ChrisRock -- inducting the Red Hot Chili Peppers
- @GreenDay -- inducting Guns N’ Roses
- @yimyames (Jim James) -- performing with Donovan
- @paulshaffer -- Rock Hall Musical Director
- @Willbassboy -- Paul Shaffer’s bassist
- @TravieMcCoy -- performing
- @Questlove -- performing
- @LLCoolJ -- performing
- @KidRock -- performing
- @ChristineOhlman -- performing
- @M1xMasterM1ke -- performing
- @futurerocklgnds -- the best source for Rock Hall news and criticism
- @rock_hall -- the Rock Hall’s official feed
- @johnsoeder -- Cleveland Plain Dealer’s Rock Hall reporter
- @NoExpiration -- Brian Ives will be in the press room during the ceremony
- @jetfan1 -- Tom Lane (Rock Hall expert)
- @cvcjr13 -- Charles Crossley Jr. (Rock Hall expert)
- #RockHall2012 -- semi-official hashtag of the 2012 induction ceremony events
- #RockHall -- often used hashtag
- @PositivelyCleve -- Cleveland Tourism Info
- @Cleveland_Scene -- Cleveland Alt Weekly
- @DiscoverOhio -- OH Tourism Division
Alternatively, if you’re a Google Reader user, you can add any of these twitter accounts to your RSS feed. Liking us on Facebook is an option as well.
Duff McKagan had recently told Rolling Stone that he “doubted” the band would reunite for a performance. Additionally, Paul Shaffer’s twitter account had written to us that, “Guns n Roses will not be performing.” (Shaffer’s reps later tried to backpedal from that statement.)
So, as disappointing that news is, it’s not unexpected. Axl Rose has been holding a grudge against Slash for a long time and apparently he’s unwilling to make amends for the ultimate rock and roll honor.
Guns N’ Roses is the only inductee that still doesn’t have a confirmed presenter. We would guess the Rock Hall is looking for an artist who cannot only honor the band with a speech, but also perform a couple of GNR songs in tribute. It’s tough to come up with any artist who could successfully pull off those classic Guns N’ Roses songs, let alone finding one that can come to Cleveland for the ceremony. We thought there would be a nice bit of symmetry if Van Halen spinoff band, Chickenfoot*, could do the honors, since it was a Guns N’ Roses spinoff band, Velvet Revolver*, who inducted Van Halen into the Rock Hall in 2007. (Chickenfoot’s drummer, Chad Smith, will already be at the ceremony since he is being inducted with the Red Hot Chili Peppers.)
* - Chickenfoot consists of former Van Halen members Sammy Hagar and Michael Anthony, along with Smith and Joe Satriani. Velvet Revolver included former GNR members Slash, Duff McKagan and Matt Sorum.
Here is the lineup (see also our complete list of past inductees and presenters):
- Beastie Boys -- Chuck D from Public Enemy
- Donovan -- John Mellencamp
- The Small Faces / The Faces -- Stevie Van Zandt from the E Street Band
- Red Hot Chili Peppers -- Chris Rock
- Laura Nyro -- Bette Midler
- Freddie King -- Billy Gibbons and Dusty Hill from ZZ Top
- Don Kirshner -- Carole King
- Cosimo Matassa, Tom Dowd, Glyn Johns -- Robbie Robertson from The Band
- The Blue Caps, The Comets, The Crickets, The Famous Flames, The Midnighters and The Miracles -- Smokey Robinson
The one glaring omission from the list of presenters is a choice for Guns N’ Roses. Apparently the Rock Hall is still trying to find an artist who can induct the band and perhaps perform some of their songs, similar to what Velvet Revolver did for Van Halen in 2007, since it seems that the band will not reunite for a performance at the ceremony.
In addition to the names above, Billboard learned that Jim James from My Morning Jacket will perform with Donovan. The Rock Hall’s press release promises more induction ceremony details will be coming soon.
The induction ceremony is being held at Cleveland’s Public Auditorium, a short walk away from the Rock Hall. During the ceremony, the Museum is hosting its annual simulcast of the proceedings, the only place you can watch an unedited version of the event. Darlene Love wrote on her Facebook page that she will be performing at the Museum’s simulcast event, presumably before or after the induction ceremony.
If you’re unable to make it to Cleveland and want to watch the induction ceremony, you’ll have to wait until HBO premieres a 2 1/2 hour version at 9pm on May 5th. There is no official online live stream of the ceremony.
In addition to Josh Klinghoffer, the other Red Hot Chili Peppers being inducted are: current members Anthony Kiedis, Flea (Michael Balzary) and Chad Smith; former guitarists John Frusciante and Hillel Slovak; and former drummers Jack Irons and Cliff Martinez.
Notably absent are former members Dave Navarro and Jack Sherman, each of whom were the featured guitarist on one album.
Although it may seem premature to induct Klinghoffer with the band after having only appeared on one album, it’s quite possible he could be with the band for years to come. In that case, it would be unfortunate if he was not included with the band in the Hall of Fame. It’s probably better for the Rock Hall to err on the side of inducting more people rather than few, although you do risk having extraneous Hall of Famers if things don’t work out. For example, what if the Rock Hall had inducted Van Halen during the brief Gary Cherone era? In hindsight that would have been a bit embarrassing. (No one has ever been kicked out of the Rock Hall.)
For some unknown reason, the Rock Hall continues to treat these decisions as classified information. They still haven’t publicly released which members are being inducted for Guns N’ Roses (Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Adler, Sorum and Reed), RHCP and the Small/Faces (Steve Marriott, Ronnie Lane, Ian McLagan, Kenney Jones, Rod Stewart and Ron Wood). And don’t expect to hear why Dave Navarro wasn’t inducted with the band, even though he spent five years with the band and appeared on a hit album with three hit singles. How much of that decision was the Rock Hall’s, and how much was the band’s? We’ll probably never know. Someone from the Rock Hall should stand up and defend these borderline decisions.
- Blue Caps (Gene Vincent)
- The Comets (Bill Haley)
- The Crickets (Buddy Holly)
- Famous Flames (James Brown)
- Midnighters (Hank Ballard)
- Miracles (Smokey Robinson)
In each of these cases, the backing group failed to get into the Hall of Fame at the same time as their frontman - sometimes causing a great deal of controversy. The Hall of Fame's failure to induct the Miracles along with Smokey Robinson in 1987 caused a particularly large uproar. Hall of Fame rules state that artists are eligible for induction 25 years after their debut release. At the time, Robinson had been a solo artist for only 14 years.From John Soeder’s Plain Dealer report:
The newly announced honorees were not nominated on the latest Rock Hall ballot. Instead, they were designated by a special committee.
"There was a lot of discussion about this," said committee member Terry Stewart, president and CEO of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.
"There had always been conversations about why the groups weren't included when the lead singers were inducted," Stewart said.
”Very honestly, nobody could really answer that question -- it was so long ago. . . . We decided we'd sit down as an organization and look at that. This is the result.
"You're looking at some of the lynchpins between rockabilly and vocal-harmony and straight-ahead rock 'n' roll. It speaks to when this music took off. It's a great statement about the early years.”
. . .
As for other groups that were not inducted alongside their frontmen -- Bruce Springsteen's E Street Band, for example -- Stewart said they might have a shot at getting in someday as recipients of the Rock Hall's Award for Musical Excellence.
"The great thing is that the organization recognizes that it needs to look at the process from time to time, and look at the results," Stewart said.
”If there are things that we think need to be modified or changed, then that's what we do."
Congratulations to the members of these groups (and their families) who are finally getting the recognition from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame they deserve. A shout-out also goes to the community members of Future Rock Legends who have been banging the drum on this issue for so long (especially Bill G. and Roy).
More to come...
The Rock Hall still hasn’t announced which members of RHCP are going to be inducted, but new guitarist Josh Klinghoffer could possibly be inducted based on the “Trujillo Precedent.” If he is, at age 32, he’ll become the youngest person ever inducted into the Hall of Fame, surpassing Stevie Wonder’s record (age 38).
Guns N’ Roses is the only band where the exact members have been confirmed -- the five original members, plus Dizzy Reed and Matt Sorum -- but that didn’t come directly from the Rock Hall.
The Red Hot Chili Peppers have a long history of band members, but so far, it’s unclear who is being inducted. There was a recent article where it claimed early drummer Cliff Martinez was being inducted, but again, nothing has come directly from the Rock Hall. The “Robert Trujillo Precedent” would imply that new guitarist Josh Klinghoffer would be inducted with the band, but that hasn’t been confirmed.
Just this week, former Beastie Boys collaborator, DJ Hurricane complained about not being included in the Rock Hall induction. Presumably just the three Beastie Boys are being inducted, but the Rock Hall hasn’t said anything publicly one way or another.
The joint induction of the Small Faces and the Faces contributes roughly a dozen different people who were members of either band. Will they all be inducted?
The Rock Hall should be able to confirm the inductees by the time the induction ceremony rolls around on April 14th.
I used to think about the administration of the Rock Hall as people with good intentions that at times just didn’t seem to get it and they would always seem to come up with an excuse for a mistake or failure but “we are going to make it better.”
Now I look at the Rock Hall as an organization that treats its membership as cattle.
Okay Rock Hall, I’m going to give you some free advice. This is how you take care of your membership. This is how you grow. No matter what the event you have, offer the tickets to your membership first. If it sells out before it gets to the general public, oh well. Wow so simple!!!! Also make it that tickets are available in chronological order based on how long you have had your membership. Again so simple!!! If I lost out on something to the people who have been members for 15, 20, 25 years how could I be pissed off at them, they have been supporting the hall for years. They should get the first crack. Again a simple solution that would work. It goes back to my original question “Don’t get it or don’t care”, which one is it?
Why Freddie King's Induction as an Early Influence Makes a Mockery of the Entire Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Process
Freddie King was one of the 15 performer nominees for the 2012 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction class. His name was on the ballot right between Joan Jett and Laura Nyro. His name was occupying one of the spaces on that ballot that dozens of other artists have been trying to be a part of for so many years and have been left out. You don’t think Deep Purple fans might have liked to see their name on the ballot there? They’ve never been nominated. Johnny Burnette & the Rock N Roll Trio? Nope. Stevie Ray Vaughan. Judas Priest. We could go on. The complaining wouldn’t be so loud if these artists ever even had a chance.
So why would the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee waste a space on the ballot for an artist who was going to be inducted as an Early Influence anyway? (More on that in a second.) What does that say to the Voting Committee members who used one of their five precious votes on someone who was already in? Are you kidding? Don’t you think most voters would have liked to use that vote somewhere else? We bet War, the Spinners or Donna Summer would have liked those extra votes.
This really shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. The Rock Hall did the exact same thing three years ago with Wanda Jackson.
The reason the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is so maddening to some of us is not because of who is in and who is out (that’s an entirely different discussion). It’s that the Rock Hall doesn’t even respect a defined process for induction. What other institution makes things up on the fly the way the Rock Hall does? Maybe the People’s Choice awards? Say what you want about the snubs of the Baseball or Football Halls of Fame (or even the Oscars), but you can’t say they don’t follow a set criteria and rules for induction.
Since 2005, the Rock Hall has honored five performer inductees every year. Since voters could choose up to five artists on their ballot, there was a logical symmetry between the ballot and the number of inductees. But this year, even though voters could still choose only five names, the Rock Hall decides to induct six artists. Why? Was it because one of the inductees is deceased (Laura Nyro)? No, they only inducted five in 2006 when Miles Davis was posthumously honored. So why are they inducting six this year? It feels like the system is being manipulated for some unstated reasons. The Rock Hall is certainly at liberty to change the rules, but does it need to be in the middle of the game?
And then there’s the issue of inducting Freddie King as an “Early Influence” -- an issue that came up the last time this happened with Wanda Jackson. The Rock Hall’s definition of the category from their website: “Artists whose music predated rock and roll but had an impact on the evolution of rock and roll and inspired rock’s leading artists.” The key part of that definition is that the music “predates rock and roll.” The rest of the definition applies to all Rock and Roll Hall of Famers. Both Freddie King and Wanda Jackson’s important works did not predate rock and roll by any definition. Wanda Jackson was a contemporary of Elvis. Freddie King had most of his hits in the ’60s. So, again, has the criteria changed?
And while we’re discussing the ballot, why were the Small Faces and the Faces nominated together? Yes, they overlapped band members, but so have many other bands over the years. We joked about this on Twitter when the nominations came out, but are we going to see joint Rage Against the Machine / Audioslave nominations? Pearl Jam / Mother Love Bone? Should Guns N’ Roses have waited to be nominated with Velvet Revolver? These are ridiculous examples, but the Small Faces / Faces has now set a precedent for this kind of thing. Bizarre. (Maybe the Baseball Hall of Fame will combine the stats of all of the Molina brothers and put them in the Hall of Fame together.)
Look, when you call yourself a “Hall of Fame,” that means something. It should be something for artists to aspire to achieve. It should deserve respect from fans. But you can’t continue to erode people’s confidence in the institution by bending the rules and looking the other way when there are obvious conflicts of interest without causing damage to your institution. Take a longer view of things. The Hall of Fame should become even more important as music becomes less of a communal experience.
We’re already looking at artists eligible for the 2037 induction ceremony. Will anyone still care?
- Freddie King (nominated as a Performer, but inducted as an Early Influence)
Inductees will be honored at the Induction Ceremony in Cleveland on April 14, 2012. HBO will tape the event and broadcast it in early May.
The results of our poll, which simulates the actual Rock Hall ballot, show that fans would induct Guns N’ Roses (66% of ballots), Red Hot Chili Peppers (56%), The Cure (51%), Beastie Boys (50%), and Heart (47%). The artists left out this time would theoretically be Joan Jett (39%), Donovan (31%), The Small Faces/The Faces (30%), Donna Summer (25%), The Spinners (25%), Freddie King (24%), War (24%), Laura Nyro (14%), Eric B. & Rakim (9%), and Rufus with Chaka Khan (8%). The Future Rock Legends poll typically predicts three out of the five inductees.
So, taking into account the gray-haired tuxedo crowd, Future Rock Legends predicts the five performer inductees for the 2012 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame class:small sub-committees.
- The voting deadline is Monday, December 5, 2011. Inductees should be announced within a couple weeks after that deadline.
- The ballot points you to a “special website just for voters” so you can “refresh your memory of the artists’ music” by listening to 30 second clips of a handful of songs. Ok…
- Voters are no longer asked to rank their choices in order of preference as they did in previous years. You can see the instructions on the 2008 ballot. It was never clear how the rankings were used in counting the ballots, so it makes sense to remove that requirement.
- The ballots are individually numbered. Goldmine’s ballot is #229. Voter Steve Pond’s ballot is #251. There were more than 500 ballots sent out this year.
- It’s a good thing that clip art finger is pointing you in the right direction. You might get lost otherwise.
For reference, the nominees on this year’s ballot, from which the 2012 inductees will be selected by the R&RHoF voters (mostly current inductees and pop critics), are:Thanks Charles, for all the work you put in to compile the information above. You can read more from Charles Crossley, Jr. on his Rock Hall forum and follow him on Twitter.
Eric B. & Rakim
Guns 'N Roses
Joan Jett & the Blackhearts
Red Hot Chili Peppers
The Small Faces/The Faces
People over the years have claimed that the nominee ballot is calculated to meet certain criteria, such as there has to be dead people (or no dead people), there was to be so many of a certain race, there has to be so many of a certain gender. . . So, let's break up these nominees and examine them based on all these different criteria, and see what the truth is.
First, by subgenre:
1 blues act
1 folk rock/psychedelic act
1 funk act
1 funk rock act
1 funk metal act
1 goth rock/alternative act
2 hard rock acts
1 hard rock/folk rock act
1 psychedelic/pub rock act
2 rap acts
1 R&B/soul act
1 singer/songwriter act
Next, by members. Asterisks (*) indicate members specifically named in the press release. Question marks (?) wonder if these members will be added because they did not appear on what is regarded as an "important" recording or have made only minor contributions to the act’s main recordings. All others appeared on an important recording but weren't named on the press release. Any members not listed either have not recorded with the act or have recorded on minor recordings past the act’s heyday.
Based on the membership of this year’s nominees, there are a total of 112 people who could possibly be inducted. Based on who was included in past inductions, most of them won’t.
Beastie Boys - 3 (*Mike D, *MCA, *Ad-Rock)
The Cure - 12 (*Robert Smith, Michael Dempsey, *Lol Tolhurst, *Simon Gallup, Matthieu Hartley, Andy Anderson, Phil Thornalley, *Porl Thompson, *Boris Williams, *Roger O’Donnell, Perry Bamonte, Jason Cooper)
Donovan - (*himself)
Eric B. & Rakim – 2 (*Eric B., *Rakim)
Guns 'N Roses - 18 (*Axl Rose, *Slash, *Izzy Stradlin, *Duff McKagan, *Steven Adler, Dizzy Reed, Matt Sorum, Gilby Clarke, Buckethead, John Freese, Paul Tobias, Robin Finck, Bryan Mantia, Tommy Stinson, Chris Pitman, Richard Fortus, Bumblefoot, Frank Ferrer)
Heart - 10 (*Ann Wilson, *Nancy Wilson, *Roger Fisher, *Steve Fossen, *Michael DeRosier, *Howard Leese, Mark Andes, Dennis Carmassi, Fernando Saunders (?), Denny Fongheiser (?))
Joan Jett & The Blackhearts - 6 (*Joan Jett, Ricky Byrd, Gary Ryan, Lee Crystal, Kasim Sulton, Thommy Price)
Freddie King (*himself)
Laura Nyro (*herself)
Red Hot Chili Peppers - 15 (*Anthony Kleidis, *Hillel Slovak, *Flea, *Jack Irons, Jack Sherman, Cliff Martinez, Blackbyrd McKnight (?), D.H. Peligro (?), *John Frusciante, *Chad Smith, Zander Schloss (?), Arik Marshall, Jesse Tobias (?), Dave Navarro, Josh Klinghoffer)
Rufus With Chaka Khan - 14 (Kevin Murphy, Al Ciner, Dennis Belfield, Lee Graziano (?), Paulette McWilliams (?), Ron Stockert, *Chaka Khan, Tony Maiden, Nate Morgan, Bobby Watson, Andre Fischer, Hawk Wolinski, Moon Calhoun, J.R. Robinson)
The Small Faces/The Faces - 7 (*Steve Marriott, *Ronnie Lane, *Ian McLagan, *Kenney Jones, *Rod Stewart, *Ron Wood, Tetsu Yamauchi (?))
The Spinners - 9 (*Bobbie Smith, *Pervis Jackson, *Henry Fambrough, *Billy Henderson, George Dixon, Edgar "Chico" Edwards, G.C. Cameron, *Phillip Wynne, John Edwards)
Donna Summer (*herself)
War - 12 (*Lonnie Jordan, *Howard Scott, *Charles Miller, *B.B. Dickerson, *Harold Brown, *Papa Dee Allen, *Lee Oskar, *Eric Burdon, Alice Tweed Smyth aka Tweed Smith (?), Luther Rabb (?), Pat Rizzo (?), Ronnie Hammon (?))
Next, by previous inductions. Clyde McPhatter was the first person to be inducted more than once into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, as a soloist and as a member of the first incarnation of the Drifters. So, when someone is inducted more than once, we say he has joined the Clyde McPhatter Club. So, notice the name in bold above? Poised to join the Clyde McPhatter Club this year is:
Rod Stewart of the Faces, previously inducted solo (94).
Ron Wood of the Faces, previously inducted with the Rolling Stones (89).
Eric Burdon of War, previously inducted with the Animals (94).
Next, by race, depending on who is and who is not inducted:
Beastie Boys, The Cure, Donovan, Heart, Joan Jett & the Blackhearts, Laura Nyro
Eric B. & Rakim, Freddie King, Donna Summer, The Spinners
Mixed: possibly 5
Guns ‘N Roses, Red Hot Chili Peppers*, Rufus, The Small Faces/The Faces**, War
*This depends on whether Cliff Martinez, Blackbyrd McKnight, Paul Tobias or Dave Navarro are inducted with the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Otherwise, this act would count towards white.
**This depends on whether Tetsu Yamauchi is inducted with the Faces, which isn’t likely. Otherwise, this act would count towards white.
Next, by gender, depending on which members are inducted:
It seems, despite what has been written to the contrary, there is no appreciable increase in the actual number of females that could be inducted this year over the last few years.
Next, by nationality based on place of birth:
Seven I cannot identify where they're from, but all seven are probably from the United States (Dennis Belfield of Rufus, Steve Fossen of Heart, Ronnie Hammon of War, Pat Rizzo of War, Gary Ryan of the Blackhearts, Alice Tweed Smyth from War, and Ron Stockert of Rufus)
One from Australia (Flea of the Red Hot Chili Peppers).
One from Denmark (Lee Oskar of War).
One born in France, raised in England (Boris Williams of the Cure).
One from Israel (Hillel Slovak of the Red Hot Chili Peppers).
One from Japan (Tetsu Yamauchi of the Faces).
One from Mexico (Paul Tobias of the Red Hot Chili Peppers).
One born in Southern Rhodesia (present day Zimbabwe), raised in England (Michael Dempsey of the Cure).
Nineteen from the United Kingdom (18 from England, 1 from Scotland).
The rest were from the United States of America:
20 from California, 1 from Delaware, 2 from Florida, 1 from Georgia, 6 from Illinois, 4 from Indiana, 1 from Iowa, 1 from Kansas, 2 from Louisiana, 1 from Massachusetts, 6 from Michigan, 3 from Minnesota, 1 from Mississippi, 5 from Missouri, 14 from New York, 2 from Ohio, 1 from Oklahoma, 2 from Pennsylvania, 1 from Tennessee, 1 from Texas, 4 from Washington
Next, by the number of top 40 hits on the Billboard 100:
Beastie Boys - 3
The Cure - 3
Eric B. & Rakim - 0
Guns 'N Roses - 9
Heart - 20
Joan Jett & the Blackhearts – 8 (including “Light Of Day” by the Barbusters)
Freddie King - 1
Laura Nyro - 0
Red Hot Chili Peppers - 9
Rufus - 10
The Small Faces/The Faces – 3 (1 as the Small Faces, 2 as the Faces)
The Spinners - 17
Donna Summer - 20
War - 12
Next, by dead members, depending on who is inducted. Currently, there are 11:
Hillel Slovak of the Red Hot Chili Peppers
Steve Marriott of the Small Faces
Ronnie Lane of the Small Faces and the Faces
Pervis Jackson of the Spinners
Billy Henderson of the Spinners
Phillipé Wynne of the Spinners
Papa Dee Allen of War
Charles Miller of War
Luther Rabb of War
Next, by number of years eligible, with first national release. An act is eligible 25 years after its first national release:
First national release: 1982’s "Polly Wog Stew" ep
First year eligible: 2007
Number of years eligible: 5
First national release: 1978’s "Killing An Arab" single
First year eligible: 2004
Number of years eligible: 8
First national release: 1965’s "Catch The Wind" album
First year eligible: 1990
Number of years eligible: 22
Eric B. & Rakim
First national release: 1986’s "Eric B. Is President" single
First year eligible: 2011
Number of years eligible: 1
Guns 'N Roses
First national release: 1986’s "Live ?!*@ Like A Suicide" ep
First year eligible: 2011
Number of years eligible: 1
First national release: 1975’s "Dreamboat Annie" album
First year eligible: 2000
Number of years eligible: 12
Joan Jett & the Blackhearts
First national release: 1981’s "I Love Rock-N-Roll" album
Excludes 1980’s Bad Reputation which was credited solely to Joan Jett.
First year eligible: 2006
Number of years eligible: 6
First national release: 1960’s "You've Got To Love Her With Feeling" single
Excludes 1957’s "Country Boy" single, which was a regional release
First year eligible: 1985
Number of years eligible: 27
First national release: 1967’s "More Than A New Discovery" album
First year eligible: 1992
Number of years eligible: 20
Red Hot Chili Peppers
First national release: 1984’s "Red Hot Chili Peppers" album
First year eligible: 2009
Number of years eligible: 3
Rufus With Chaka Khan
First national release: 1974’s “Rags To Rufus” album
Excludes 1973’s "Rufus" album, which was credited solely to Rufus even though Chaka Khan was present
First year eligible: 1999
Number of years eligible: 13
The Small Faces/The Faces
First national release: 1965’s "What'cha Gonna Do About It" single
First year eligible: 1990
Number of years eligible: 22
For the record, the first national release for The Faces was 1969’s "Flying” single
First national release: 1961’s "That's What Girls Are Made For" single
First year eligible: 1986
Number of years eligible: 26
First national release: 1971’s "Sally Go 'Round The Roses" single
First year eligible: 1996
Number of years eligible: 16
First national release: 1970 - "Eric Burdon Declares War" album
First year eligible: 1995
Number of years eligible: 17
Next, number of times nominated, including years nominated:
Beastie Boys – 3 (2007, 2010, 2011)
The Cure – 1 (2011)
Donovan – 2 (2010, 2011)
Eric B. & Rakim – 1 (2011)
Guns 'N Roses – 1 (2011)
Heart – 1 (2011)
Joan Jett & the Blackhearts 1 – (2011)
Freddie King – 1 (2011)
Laura Nyro – 3 (2009, 2010, 2011)
Red Hot Chili Peppers – 2 (2009, 2011)
Rufus – 1 (2011)
The Small Faces/The Faces – 1 (2011)
Spinners – 1 (2011)
Donna Summer - 4 (2007, 2009, 2010, 2011)
War – 2 (2008, 2011)
There are six previously nominated acts this year, while the other nine have been nominated for their first time. The nominators favored acts that have never been nominated over those who have. Going by the inductees from the last six years, so do the voters.
**The Chili Peppers were also nominated two years ago (prior to Burnstein’s involvement with the Rock Hall) and are clearly strong Hall of Fame candidates, and it’s unknown if Burnstein was directly involved in getting the band on the ballot this year.
This is not a new problem for the Rock Hall Foundation, and they likely don’t see it as an issue. They have been facing accusations of bias since the Rock Hall’s birth and have never taken any steps to remove that perception.
If the Rock Hall wants to get serious about improving its perception with the public, we have some suggestions to improve the induction process:
- Term limits for Nominating Committee members (5-7 years). The prospect of new voices on the Committee would give hope for neglected artists.
- Allow the Nominating Committee members to speak about the process publicly.
- Publish rules for the nominating process and include something to address conflicts of interest.
- Make the list of Voting Committee members public.
- Hire an independent accounting firm to handle the vote counting like every other reputable awards show does.
- Publish complete voting statistics. We understand you don’t want to hurt artists’ feelings, but they will survive. It should be an honor just to be in the discussion for the Hall of Fame.
- Find a way to engage the fans. There are lots of ways to do this, but a simple way would be to create a fan vote for the last ballot position from four choices you provide. We don’t want the Rock Hall to turn into the Hard Rock Café anymore than you do.
- Stop being so secretive. You should have publicized the fact that Cliff Burnstein is now on the Nominating Committee. Be proud of who you are and what you are creating.
Meet Cliff Burnstein, the newest Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee member. [Although the Rock Hall doesn’t publicize the members of the committee, Tom Lane recently learned from Dave Marsh that Burnstein had become a member this year.]
A few facts about Mr. Burnstein:
- He was born in ~1948.
- He co-founded Q Prime Management with Peter Mensch in 1982.
- He is most well known for being the longtime manager of Metallica. [Lars Ulrich tells the story of meeting Cliff Burnstein here.]
- One of his current clients are the Red Hot Chili Peppers, who happen to be a 2012 nominee. [Don’t forget it was Flea who inducted Metallica in 2009.]
- Others on his current client list include Muse, Silversun Pickups, The Mars Volta, Gillian Welch, Josh Groban and Cage The Elephant.
- He used to manage snubbed artists Rush and Def Leppard (among many others).
- Q Prime is associated with Mom + Pop Records, an independent label with artists such as Metric, Neon Indian and Sleigh Bells.
- He is a generous philanthropist.
- According to Dave Marsh, Burnstein nominated The Spinners for the Rock Hall this year.
- He is allegedly being impersonated by criminals who scam female escorts out of thousands of dollars (?!!?!)
Cliff Burnstein is unquestionably qualified to help shape the Rock Hall and he should be a positive addition to the Nominating Committee.
Rod Stewart’s publicist issued the following press release:
ROD STEWART COMMENTS ON HIS RECENT NOMINATION WITH 'THE FACES' FOR INDUCTION INTO THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME IN 2012
Rod Stewart: "I'm thrilled to be nominated again. Being inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame as a solo artist in 1994 was a huge honor for me. If the Faces make it in, I can't think of a more befitting opportunity for the band to finally reunite and perform. I know I'd definitely be up for it.”
This appears to be just the kickoff of Stewart’s campaign to become a two-time Rock Hall inductee. We’ll see if it works.
- Beastie Boys: Third nomination (second consecutive); eligible since 2007
It’s mystifying why they haven’t been inducted yet. They have some of the strongest credentials of any eligible artist. Could this be the year, or will they wait a year and go in with Public Enemy (back in New York)?
- The Cure: First nomination; eligible since 2003
Interesting nomination. Certainly fills a void on recent ballots, but it seems highly unlikely they’ll be inducted this year. Also in line for this ballot slot, The Smiths and Joy Division / New Order.
- Donovan: Second nomination (second consecutive); eligible since 1990
Not sure there is much momentum behind him, but perhaps he fared well on last year’s ballot.
- Eric B. & Rakim: First nomination; FIRST-YEAR ELIGIBILITY
Huge in hip-hop circles, but to get inducted into the Rock Hall, you generally have to transcend your genre.
- Guns N’ Roses: First nomination; FIRST-YEAR ELIGIBILITY
See you in Cleveland.
- Heart: First nomination; eligible since 2001
Great to see Heart make the ballot after waiting 10 years. They recently made an appearance at the Rock Hall Museum as part of the “Women Who Rock” exhibit.
- Joan Jett and the Blackhearts: First nomination; eligible since 2005
Another focus of the “Women Who Rock” exhibit. Many people wanted the Runaways to get in first, but the Rock Hall went with the more popular band.
- Freddie King: First nomination; eligible since 1986 (first year of inductions)
This year’s left field nomination. Never count these guys out of the voting.
- Laura Nyro: Third nomination (third consecutive); eligible since 1992
Laura Nyro must have some strong advocates on the Nominating Committee.
- Red Hot Chili Peppers: Second nomination; eligible since 2009
Another band like the Beastie Boys that will inevitably be inducted. It’s just a matter of when. They will be coming off a huge tour in support of their new album.
- Rufus with Chaka Khan: First nomination; eligible since 1999
Chaka Khan’s name has been on the “Previously Considered” list for years, but here she gets the nomination with her 70’s band Rufus.
- The Small Faces/The Faces: First nomination; eligible since 1991
This could fit into the category of Jeff Beck’s induction three years ago. Don’t count them out.
- The Spinners: First nomination; eligible since 1986 (first year of inductions)
It seems likely that they will be ushered in quickly by the Voting Committee, who has probably been waiting for a chance to vote for them for years.
- Donna Summer: Fourth nomination (third consecutive); eligible since 1999
Another year, another Donna Summer nomination. She likely be nominated again next year, because she won’t make it again.
- War: Second nomination; eligible since 1996
Not a lot of traction the last time they were on the ballot. With heavy competition this year, they won’t get in.
The Induction Ceremony will be back in Cleveland this year on Saturday, April 14th and is open to the public. Tickets will be available in December, presumably after the inductees are announced.
** The first place the nominees were listed was on a Cure fan site (found by a FRL reader DC), from a scan of the print edition of Rolling Stone. Oddly, only 12 of the nominees are listed (no Donna Summer, War or Laura Nyro) and Freddie King’s name is misspelled.