id be picking

Stevie ray Vaughan (not on sympathy but on legacy to blues)

RUN DMC (my favoirte rap group)

Slayer

The smiths

Pantera

Queensrÿche can wait a while anthrax is ineligible untill 2009.

Posted by martin on Wednesday, 06.13.07 @ 09:17am

This is a pretty "meh" year. Run DMC/SRV are certainly influential, but who isn't bored by their recordings? Proto-rap and blooze...yawn. The Smiths are the other lock and well deserving.

Pulp is the only other act here I'd think of inducting, but they'll never even be nominated so it's irrelevant.

Posted by Casper on Wednesday, 06.13.07 @ 21:09pm

STEVIE

RAY

VAUGHAN

Posted by Kevin on Thursday, 06.14.07 @ 14:22pm

Violent Femmes All the Way!!

Posted by Rick on Tuesday, 07.3.07 @ 14:54pm

On the basis of Soul to Soul---SRV, The Real Deal, period...

--Taylor

Posted by Taylor on Sunday, 07.22.07 @ 21:47pm

No one can ever determine exactly what year a band will be inducted, but of the list of groups who become eligible in 2008, I will give my predictions on who will (or at least my opinions on who should) be inducted, ranking them in order of most deserving.

1. Stevie Ray Vaughan
2. The Smiths
3. Pantera

On the bubble: Bon Jovi

Posted by Drew on Thursday, 08.23.07 @ 19:09pm

This looks like a good year for artists passed over to make it.
List from 2008 that will/should make it in order.
1. Stevie Ray Vaughan
2. Run-DMC
3. Pantera
4. Bon Jovi
5. Slayer

Posted by Gassman on Friday, 08.24.07 @ 23:24pm

Pretty much a lock for The Smiths

Posted by liam on Sunday, 09.9.07 @ 12:06pm

BON JOVI - THE BEST OF THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
N. 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by diamond ring on Wednesday, 09.19.07 @ 10:08am

How can this be called a ROCK n ROLL Hall of Fame with people like KD Lang and New Edition in it.Dont get me wrong I like New Edition but why does the "HALL" keep ignoring KISS....Can anyone answer me that question!!!!!...Or they already in there and I missed something?

Posted by Matt on Friday, 09.28.07 @ 05:56am

matt wrong place 2 talk about kiss

Posted by martin on Saturday, 09.29.07 @ 12:05pm

Its funny seeing all these bands that you think are so worthy of being in the RRHOF.
I laugh because there is so many more bands from the 70's & 60's that have had a far more influence on rock than the bands listed to make it next year.
These bands have been elgible for awhile:
Rush & Yes just to name a few.

It must be a rule that no progressive rock is elgiable, but madonna & the Bestie boys are! I find due to who the RRHOF is inducting they are losing crediability by each passing year, within the music industry!

Peace!

Posted by Matt on Saturday, 09.29.07 @ 18:24pm

I think they should start working on inducting more of the past eligible artist from the 50's and 60's while many are still with us to let them know of their impact.

Posted by KEN on Saturday, 09.29.07 @ 19:42pm

An interesting year this could be. It will reveal whether the hall is REALLY about artistic merit and influence (the Smiths, Run DMC etc), or whether it is simply turning/ed lowest common demoninator (see Bon Jovi)

Posted by liam on Friday, 10.5.07 @ 14:57pm

Liam, I'd add Stevie Ray Vaughan to the list as well.

If Stevie Ray Vaughan isn't a first-ballot lock for next year, I'd seriously advocate rounding up every single member who's stuck in the 60's and kicking them off the committee.

Posted by Antonio on Friday, 10.5.07 @ 16:40pm

"An interesting year this could be. It will reveal whether the hall is REALLY about artistic merit and influence..."

I realy don't know how you can summon up any enthusiasm right now for more prognosticating or speculation - who gives a fuck anymore? The dimwits at the Hall are running out of time, and they're squandering it every time they leave the ever swelling masses in the Rock refugee camps behind another ballot year. I'll say it until I'm blue - 5 NOMINEES IS A DEATH RATION! Induct 9-10 for the next 6-7 years or become so rarified and arbitrary as to become a farcical irrelevancy. They blew it - AGAIN! And I'm pissed.

Goddamn.

Posted by shawn on Friday, 10.5.07 @ 19:33pm

"Liam, I'd add Stevie Ray Vaughan to the list as well.

If Stevie Ray Vaughan isn't a first-ballot lock for next year, I'd seriously advocate rounding up every single member who's stuck in the 60's and kicking them off the committee." - antonio

i hope you mean artistic meerit and influence. if it is i agree with you, i only used run dmc and smiths as a couple of examples; i can't be bothered with any more long lists....

Posted by liam on Saturday, 10.6.07 @ 07:20am

"They blew it - AGAIN! And I'm pissed.
Goddamn. "

Dude, I think you need some other outlet or hobby...

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, 10.6.07 @ 08:48am

"Dude, I think you need some other outlet or hobby..."

i think you to do some spring cleaning on your record collection. Are you SERIOUS about Rush?

Posted by liam on Saturday, 10.6.07 @ 08:59am

"Dude, I think you need some other outlet or hobby..."

Dude - been following everyone's trains of thought regarding all things RHOF, off and on, for 7 months, all the artists that SHOULD be in but are, for apparantly mystical and secret reasons continue to be NOT in, and I am just taking my daily 5 minutes to express how displeased/bewildered I am with Jeff Beck, Alice Cooper, Genesis, Steve Miller, Joe Cocker, The Replacements, Kraftwerk, Deep Purple, King Crimson, Chicago, Hall & Oates, Doobie Brothers, Rush, Tom Waits, Big Star, The Stooges and now Sonic Youth.......... being snubbed AGAIN.

That old "calm down.." schtick of yours again, Anon? Who made you the arbiter of emotional level in posts? Does it occur to you that I am being intentionally over demonstrative to express a point? Did you also miss the part where I said this:

"- who gives a fuck anymore?"

You nitwit.

Posted by shawn on Saturday, 10.6.07 @ 10:27am

Just missed those tangential rants, thats all...

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, 10.6.07 @ 12:25pm

The Smiths should be a lock. They have the music and the influence. One of the great groups!!!

Posted by Mark on Wednesday, 10.10.07 @ 09:57am

I can't believe we haven't seen Jethro Tull (one of the most innovative bands of their time with the use of the flute), Bad Company, Deep Purple, Steve Miller etc. This is the ROCK and ROLL HALL of FAME is it not. The fact that they put other stuff in before these truly talented musicians and songwriters is beyond belief. Please take a minute and make some important changes to the people doing the nominating.

Posted by frank on Thursday, 10.11.07 @ 12:13pm

METALLICA FOR ROCK HALL NEXT YEAR SINCE IT IS THEIR TRUE DEBUT WITH THE LINE IUP OF JAMES, LARS, KIRK & CLIFF

Posted by Martin on Wednesday, 11.7.07 @ 21:28pm

Stevie Ray Absolutely. Just because he was the best and will never be able to be replaced.
Paul Rogers just because he's been around since the late 60's with Free (alright now) Bad Company and many others. A very unique voice and a great writer.

Posted by Fred on Friday, 11.30.07 @ 15:33pm

If Pulp EVER got in, it would be closer to the 25th anniversary of Different Class.

Posted by liam on Tuesday, 12.11.07 @ 13:50pm

When will the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame add something called "credibility" to itself?

These bafoons who select the nominees obviously don't know or care about the artists overall contributions, longevity and impact on rock and roll.

Granted, the selection process should never be a popularity contest, but it should be a stringent criteria of many factors, including consideration of the entire body of work.

How can bands such as Chicago and The Moody Blues still not be in the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" is beyond me.

The problem since day one has been a group of industry insiders who control the process. Until that changes, you can forget about any tangible credibility.

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I challenge you to try, just try to bring some credibility to yourself.

Posted by Mike H on Friday, 12.14.07 @ 11:06am

How is Metallica not in the hall in 08. They were THE band that brought heavy metal to the mainstream in the united states. Not metal. Heavy Metal. They spawned hudreds of different thrash metal bands throughout the 80's and early 90's. They deserve their day.

Posted by brett on Monday, 12.17.07 @ 15:51pm

"They were THE band that brought heavy metal to the mainstream in the united states."

Yeah. 'Cos Led Zep isn't a household name, is it?

Posted by liam on Monday, 12.17.07 @ 16:09pm

Yeah, but led zep was a blues based rock band for the most part. I would say Metallica brought "heavy" metal to the mainstream. Whether that is good or bad, is a different discussion.

Posted by Matzo Ball on Monday, 12.17.07 @ 17:30pm

Didn't Black Sabbath bring "heavy" metal to the mainstream with the albums "Black Sabbath", "Paranoid" and "Master Of Reality" in 1970-1971??

Weren't these top 20 if not top 10??

Posted by interviewer on Monday, 12.17.07 @ 18:04pm

True, but when I mean mainstream, I am talking about the "main" mainsteam. Sabbath sold a lot of those albums, but to metal heads for the most part. Metallica sold records to metal heads and to young girls hangin at the mall who also listened to Madonna, etc. Like I said, not judging whether it is good or bad.

Posted by Matzo Ball on Monday, 12.17.07 @ 18:14pm

"Yeah, but led zep was a blues based rock band for the most part."

I'd say a significant proportion of that mainstream who were (and are) buying Led Zep albums consider(ed) them to be a heavy metal group.

Posted by liam on Tuesday, 12.18.07 @ 10:23am

Metallica isn't eligible until next year, they were not eligible this year. Remember the first single or album had to be released no later than 1982. Kill em all was released in 1983

Posted by Derek on Monday, 12.24.07 @ 02:30am

With the Ventures being inducted this year, someone should mention that guitarist Billy Strange was a Venture as were many others. Speaking of guitar instrumentalists, how about one of Stevie's mentors, Link Wray, where is he? And Billy Strange as well (Member or the Wrecking Crew, put out his own guitar albums, gave Frank his first million seller, recorded with the Beach Boys and Elvis). We are talking roots here guys. Glad for its existance though.

Posted by clintwmt on Monday, 12.31.07 @ 01:44am

I think it's amazing (and of course a little appalling) there are a lot of artists that are elgible for the Hall of Fame that aren't in. While I agreed with some of the comments already posted, here are 10 that should be inducted (and some have already probably have been mentioned): Rufus & Chaka Khan, KISS, Linda Ronstadt, Stevie Nicks (solo), Donna Summer, Chic, Deep Purple, Pat Benetar, Janet Jackson, Joy Division. Oh, are Sonic Youth elgible already?

Posted by Ryan on Thursday, 01.10.08 @ 16:48pm

The Reason some bands like Kiss and Yes aren't in the Hall is because they put out a plethora of horrible albums, with only a few good ones. YES was never really accepted by the rock critics and neither was Kiss. It's doubtful that Bon Jovi will get in no matter how many records they've sold. And for Pat Benatar, get real.

Posted by Frank on Sunday, 01.13.08 @ 20:44pm

You hsve to pick 5 from every year right. RIGHT.

1. Stevie Ray Vaughn
2. Bon Jovi
3. The Smiths
4. Cyndi Lauper
5. Queensryche

Run DMC are great, but let's have a seperate hall for rap. If you pu Run DMC in, take Queensryche out then.

Posted by crock on Thursday, 01.17.08 @ 13:06pm

OK, I'm revising my 4 top-ten lists...

Inducted:

1. David Bowie
2. The Who
3. The Rolling Stones
4. Talking Heads
5. The Beatles
6. The Clash
7. The Kinks
8. R.E.M.
9. Led Zeppelin
10. The Ramones

Eligible but not Inducted:

1. New Order
2. The Buzzcocks
3. Stooges
4. Joy Division
5. Beastie Boys
6. The Fall
7. The Jam
8. Cocteau Twins
9. The Cure
10. Echo & The Bunnymen

Eligible within the next ten years:

1. The Smiths
2. Radiohead
3. Happy Mondays
4. My Bloody Valentine
5. Blur
6. Suede
7. The Verve
8. Public Enemy
9. Soundgarden
10. Manic Street Preachers

Contemporary (bands marked 2023-2033 on our handy chart)
1. Arcade Fire
2. Yeah Yeah Yeahs
3. Franz Ferdinand
4. The Go! Team
5. LCD Soundsystem
6. The Steets
7. Dizzee Rascal
8. New Pornographers
9. Art Brut
10. British Sea Power

...and my 20 desert-island discs:

1 The Smiths - Louder Than Bombs
2 The Buzzcocks - Singles Going Steady
3 The Clash - London Calling
4 Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
5 The Beatles - Abbey Road (I forgave them)
6 Suede - Coming Up
7 The Verve - Urban Hymns
8 Radiohead - OK Computer
9 The Rolling Stones - Let It Bleed
10 New Order - Power, Corruption & Lies

11 Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
12 Iggy & The Stooges - Raw Power
13 The Cure - Disintegration
14 Soundgarden - Superunknown
15 Roxy Music - Unknown Pleasures
16 Happy Mondays - Pills 'n' Thrills and Bellyaches
17 My Bloody Valentine - Isn't Anything
18 Ride - Nowhere
19 Blur - Parklife
20 David Bowie - Hunky Dory

Posted by liam on Thursday, 01.17.08 @ 13:48pm

My email address says it all.

Why on earth Laura Nyro has not made it to the Hall of Fame yet is beyond me.

She was such a big influence on music and took women singers in a whole new direction.

What gives?

Posted by Pete on Friday, 01.25.08 @ 05:12am

OK, I'm doing some o' them 6-nominations-2-inductions things.

PROTO-PUNK, PUNK ROCK & PUNK POP:
MC5,
Stooges,
Buzzcocks,
Jam,
New York Dolls,
The Fall

PROGRESSIVE:
King Crimson,
Yes,
Emerson, Lake & Palmer,
Genesis (prefferably the Peter Gabriel line-up),
Jethro Tull,
Rush (can someone please think up another, more-deserving prog act to replace them from my list?)

KRAUTROCK / EARLY ELECTRONIC:
Kraftwerk,
Can,
Neu!,
Tangerine Dream,
Brian Eno,
Silver Apples

ART ROCK / GLAM ROCK:
T.Rex,
Roxy Music,
Mott the Hopple,
Slade,
Alice Cooper,
Kiss (but I'll rig the vote so they don't get in. ever)

METAL:
Iron Maiden,
Deep Purple,
Motorhead,
Metallica,
Blue Cheer,
Def Leppard

NEW WAVE/SYNTH:
New Order,
Depeche Mode,
Devo,
Fad Gadget,
The Cars,
Pet Shop Boys

POST-PUNK:
The Cure,
Joy Division,
Gang of Four,
Public Image Limited,
Siouxsie and the Banshees,
Wire

That's it....so far. It gets very difficult to assort all the 80s alternative and indie groups. There's just so many, and it's difficult to think of appropriate head-lines.

Feel free to comment, make your own adjustments or even make some of your own - just pick 6 nominations.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.2.08 @ 15:38pm

No way in hell am I gonna choose the line-ups of all those nominations.

Not tonight (UK time), at least.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.2.08 @ 15:44pm

Hey Liam...we'll do some more guitar stuff soon...well done! I see Johnny Marr's band is in there for 2008...I let my girlfriend listen to "Stop Me If You've Heard This One Before", she really liked it. She's an old hippie, didn't have a lot of exposure to the Smiths...lol! What did you think of the Dave Clark Five's nomination? I was just really getting into music when they started making noise over here...they made a lot more noise than people seem to remember. Just curious...

The Style Council...I really liked "My Everchanging Mood", but they didn't get a lot of exposure in the states.

Posted by Terry on Saturday, 02.2.08 @ 15:57pm

I really didn't agree with DC5 getting inducted. I don't even hear much of them anymore, and what I do ain't nearly on par with their contemporaris (ie Kinks, Beatles...).

However, I became resigned to their induction when I heard about that stupid controversy about "rigged" voting.

Paul Weller will get in with The Jam eventually. I happen to think that The Style Council is probably Paul Weller's least interesting work; The Jam being the most, and his solo career being the second.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.2.08 @ 16:08pm

Replace Rush with Procol Harem.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.2.08 @ 18:12pm

Couple more....

SHOE-GAZE / DREAM POP:
Jesus & Mary Chain,
Cocteau Twins,
Verve,
Lush,
My Bloody Valentine,
Ride

BRITPOP:
Pulp,
Blur,
Stone Roses,
Happy Mondays,
Suede,
Oasis*

UK ALTERNATIVE/INDIE**
The Smiths,
Echo & the Bunnymen,
XTC,
Talk Talk,
The Waterboys,
The Pogues

*If given their own, separate nomination, I would replace them with Supergrass
**Very motley list, I'm aware. I'll need some help if I'm gonna be sorting through alot of 80/90s alternative.

G'night!

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 02.2.08 @ 18:24pm

A little help...I really liked Gene Loves Jezebel. Didn't get a lot of air time in the US. I liked some of what Bryan Ferry did in the 80's (especially "Don't Stop The Dance" and a song called "Help Me", which was on the soundtrack to "The Fly"...lovely movie), but not enough for HOF consideration. When I listen to 80's & 90's alternative on my subscription service, I catch myself saying "Wow, who is this?" a lot. It seems a lot of very good stuff didn't make it here (or at least didn't make it to Denver...number one station here is "talk radio"...ugh!!!!)

Liam...thanks for your comment on the DC5. Theres an oldies station here that plays them a lot...I know that because the guy who shares my office listens to it (could've done without remembering a lot of stuff that station plays...LOL).

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 02.3.08 @ 08:34am

Stevie Ray Vauhan, unmatched passion and talent.

Posted by Rune on Friday, 02.15.08 @ 22:53pm

Looks like only S.R.V. should be going in in "09"!! Sad choices!!!

Posted by Tom on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 09:55am

"Looks like only S.R.V. should be going in in "09"!! Sad choices!!!"-Tom

Only for the ignorant. I'd be surprised if you could give me more than two sentences of information on every band listed above.

Posted by William on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 11:47am

Liam...are you talking about this site? I asked them to create a page for The Birthday Party.

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 12:36pm

...I also asked them for fun to add ? and the Mysterians...lol!!! I never saw anyone milk or try to get more mileage out of one hit for what, 40 years??? The guy even changed his name to "?"!! I know some people who should follow suit...lol!!!!

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 12:39pm

"96 Tears" might be the most incredibly cheesy song I've ever heard in my life.

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 14:21pm

I think I cried 81 tears once....

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 15:44pm

Just 15 more to go, then! A kick in the crotch should do it...

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 15:51pm

Some people might actually like that...lol!!!

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 16:06pm

If you take away my Rhapsody I'll start whining!!!

Posted by Terry on Sunday, 03.2.08 @ 16:19pm

METALLICA, FOR GODS SAKE !!!!

Posted by Barb on Wednesday, 03.5.08 @ 12:32pm

Bon Jovi is a lock. They are still putting out relevant and high gross selling albums and lead in concert revenue year after year. They have spanned generations and are media darlings.

Posted by gina on Sunday, 03.23.08 @ 17:40pm

Gina, then BJ have already reaped more earthly reward for their bland product than they deserve. That should be enough without them hoping they can uy their way into a respectable rock hall.

Posted by lue on Sunday, 03.23.08 @ 17:45pm

That should be enough without them hoping they can uy their way into a respectable rock hall.

Posted by lue on Sunday, 03.23.08 @ 17:45pm

Blue (Shawn) - is this you calling the RnRHoF respectable?

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 03.23.08 @ 21:09pm

"Blue (Shawn) - is this you calling the RnRHoF respectable?" -D

Ha. No. I meant a theoretically respectable HoF.

Posted by Blue on Sunday, 03.23.08 @ 22:15pm

Ha. No. I meant a theoretically respectable HoF.

You had me worried for a minute.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 03.24.08 @ 07:07am

My nominations for this year:

Kraftwerk
The Stooges
King Crimson
Genesis
Roxy Music
The Smiths
Metallica
Beastie Boys
Brian Eno
The Buzzcocks

Nice and varied. What do you think?

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 08:25am

PS The reason that there are no post-punk groups in there (well, The Smiths, yeah...) is because I believe it to only be logical to get a decent proportion of punk artists (who deserve it) in before hand.

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 08:27am

I agree with most on your list, but IMO, your list cannot be complete if it does not include the three most obvious omissions from the RRHoF: Deep Purple, ELP and Alice Cooper. I also believe that the NY Dolls and Cheap Trick should be on this list. I will paraphrase quotes from Mick Jones of the Clash - "we took a lot of our music from The Dolls", Morrissey "RnR became dangerous again because of the NY Dolls" - Iggy Pop, "The NY Dolls opened the world up to the seedy side of town". And there are a hundred others who call the Dolls one of the main branches of RnR that led to Punk. There was nothing innovative about their music, but it was influential as hell.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 11:05am

I was trying to limit my list to ten, but I would nominate all the ones you listed eventually.

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 11:15am

I don't think Alice Cooper, ELP or Deep Purple come anywhere close to most egregious omission.

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 13:11pm

Everyone has a different opinion.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 14:43pm

I said so because I don't think any of them had as large an impact on their own sub-genres as some other snubs.

King Crimson and Genesis outdo ELP in prog, Metallica outdoes Deep Purple in metal. I suppose Alice Cooper probably should be nominated very soon, but I'd actually rather see T. Rex get in first (whom I also forgot).

NY Dolls can wait because there are other, more influential hard rock groups and glam groups waiting.

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 14:50pm

Again - you have your opinion, I have mine and not to anyone's surprise, they differ.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 04.6.08 @ 16:35pm

"Along with Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, they are considered one of the pioneers of heavy metal and modern hard rock"

"...has sold over 100 million albums worldwide"

I do think it is an egregious snub on D.P.

Posted by Starr on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 06:21am

Liam - Have you noticed that most of the musicians that cite the Dolls as a major influence are Punk and Alternative Bands?

Deep Purple released their first album in 1968, a dozen years before Metallica. According to Wiki, D.P. is listed as one of Metallica's influences. "Smoke On The Water" was the first Rock song any aspiring guitarist learned back in the 70's. That would at least lend me to believe that their influence is far reaching. Don't get me wrong, I believe Metallica should be in. The point is, Deep Purple should have been in 6 or 7 years ago.

Although Arthur Brown may have been one of the first, Alice Cooper certainly was the hammer when it came to Shock Rock. I would love to see T-Rex in as well.

I love K.C. and have always said that they sit at the top of the mountain. Genesis; great band in the beginning, HoF - domewhere down the road. I don't rate either one of them over ELP.

Again, it is just my opinion.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 06:58am

"Liam - Have you noticed that most of the musicians that cite the Dolls as a major influence are Punk and Alternative Bands?"

Noooooo! I've NEVER been aware of NY Dolls influence. I wonder why I've been advocating for their induction for a while now, then.

The NY Dolls should be in, but they don't have as much impact on their own subgenre as, say, King Crimson does for progressive/art or Kraftwerk does for electronica.

"Deep Purple released their first album in 1968, a dozen years before Metallica."

Doesn't actually matter, since dates only have a small link to influence. The Sex Pistols are more influential than MC5, for instance.

I specifically nominated Metallica this year because it's the 25 year anniversary of Kill 'Em All. Might aswell get a fresh induction in and keep it interesting.

"I love K.C. and have always said that they sit at the top of the mountain. Genesis; great band in the beginning, HoF - domewhere down the road. I don't rate either one of them over ELP."

Doesn't matter. That's just your opinion, and doesn't make any difference to the fact that KC and Genesis have more influence on prog than ELP.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 07:18am

Here we go again - my comment was in response to your comment "NY Dolls can wait because there are other, more influential hard rock groups and glam groups waiting." This is why I mentioned Punk Rock. Steve Jones of Pistols claims to have basically ripped off the Johnny Thunders. Of course, since the Dolls were heavily influenced by the Stooges, then they should at least wait for that induction to happen.

Doesn't actually matter, since dates only have a small link to influence. - Liam

If Purple influenced Metallica and is widely regarded as one of the premier Hard Rock bands of all time, and a major influence on the genre, then how do you argue against their immediate inclusion since they released their first album in 1968. It has been a long time coming.

I clearly stated that I felt that Deep Purple is one of the biggest omissions. If Metallica were first eligible in the last couple of years and Purple has been eligible for over a dozen years, that would seem to make there omission far more glaring. If Metallica is still not in by the turn of the decade, then I will add them to the list.

Doesn't matter. That's just your opinion, and doesn't make any difference to the fact that KC and Genesis have more influence on prog than ELP. - Liam

If my opinion doesn't matter, then why the hell should yours? You live in these sub-genre world of yours and you miss so much. ELP crossed the boundaries of your sub-genre world and influenced musicians of all ilks.

Liam - everything you know about these bands were learned from listening to records, reading a book or doing a google search. You weren't there when the music first came out. You didn't see how the club bands that never got a contract were influenced. So stop making these "matter of fact" proclamations of yours. I said, "in my opinion".

Don't you have classes to study for?

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 08:23am

"Liam - everything you know about these bands were learned from listening to records, reading a book or doing a google search. You weren't there when the music first came out. You didn't see how the club bands that never got a contract were influenced. So stop making these "matter of fact" proclamations of yours. I said, "in my opinion"."

Might be about as relevant as the time that you claimed to own over 100,000 pieces of music, which is not at all.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 12:35pm

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot to type "in my opinion" at least 5000 times in my last comment.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 12:36pm

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot to type "in my opinion" at least 5000 times in my last comment. - Liam

You finally got it!

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 13:28pm

2008:
The Stooges
King Crimson
Roxy Music
The Smiths (get a fresh one in)
Sonic Youth
Joy Division
Kraftwerk
Metallica

2009:
MC5
The Buzzcocks
The Jesus & Mary Chain
Genesis
Big Star
Husker Du
Run-DMC
The Beastie Boys

2010:
The Flaming Lips
The Stone Roses
My Bloody Valentine
Happy Mondays
Faith No More
Primal Scream
New Order
The Cure

2011:
Brian Eno
The Specials
Deep Purple
Cocteau Twins
Yo La Tengo
The Melvins
Eric B. & Rakim
Echo & The Bunnymen

2012:
NWA
Pixies
Soundgarden
Public Enemy
XTC
The Cars
Can
The Jam

2013:
Tom Waits
Massive Attack
Fugazi
Nirvana
Meat Puppets
The Mekons
The Modern Lovers
Emerson, Lake & Palmer

2014:
Pavement
Slint

F*ck it - I'm too tired to be dointhis crap.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 19:17pm

P.S. those are inductions, not nominations.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 19:18pm

Don't you have class tomorrow? I hope you put as much effort into your real studies as you do with this! And to be honest, I hope you do better with your studies than you do with this!

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 04.7.08 @ 20:51pm

Little Steven is going to nominate The Hollies and Herman's Hermits in upcoming years.

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 04.8.08 @ 06:24am

BON JOVI RUUUUUUUUULLEESSSS!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Murilo on Friday, 04.11.08 @ 18:32pm

Why Kraftwerk isn't in already is anyone's guess. RUN DMC should be a lock. I would hope that the Smiths would be a first ballot pick also. However, I remember that the band didn't get much love in the States until after they split, which could hurt their chances.

Posted by Zeff on Wednesday, 04.23.08 @ 16:28pm

Out Of this group (who are only the people who just became eligible this year)
Id Say
Bon Jovi
Cyndie Lauper
Pantera
Run DMC
Stevie Ray Vaughn

But look at the groups that have been eligible for a while and you'l probably change yur mind

Posted by Jonathan Marsellus on Thursday, 04.24.08 @ 18:00pm

Nico
Cher
Melanie
Joan Baez
Laura Nyro
Judy Collins
Roberta Flack
Dionne Warwick
Marianne Faithful
Linda Ronstadt
Bette Midler
Carly Simon
Tina Turner

Posted by Roy on Friday, 04.25.08 @ 11:07am

Some of these lists are getting a little ridiculous. As much as I hate prog rock in general, I wonder why Yes is not in. Their influence on everything on the genre has been tremendous; they represnted everything good and bad about prog. They were probably the first band to make the music popular, as well as influence a countless number of musicians/bands. Again, this is coming from someone who isn't a prog rock fan

Posted by Zeff on Friday, 04.25.08 @ 22:17pm

Should Mannheim Steamroller be inducted?

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 05.3.08 @ 18:07pm

No. Never.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 05.3.08 @ 19:00pm

People who deserve to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame based on their influence, originality and progressiveness.

1.Gram Parsons
2. SRV
3. Metallica
4. Run DMC

That would be a great ceremony.

Posted by Gleemy on Sunday, 05.4.08 @ 15:39pm

2009 Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Predictions

Nominees
1. Metallica
2. Run DMC
3. Stevie Ray Vaughn
4. Kiss
5. Genesis
6. Alice Cooper
7. Lou Reed
8. Beastie Boys
9. The Stooges

Inductees and Presenters

Metallica- Who was friends with them???
Stooges- Lenny Kravitz
Lou Reed- David Bowie, David Byrne...who knows???
Genesis- Eric Clapton or Chris Martin
Run DMC- LL Cool J

Posted by KVP on Wednesday, 05.7.08 @ 12:47pm

This is my final list! For sure this time!

Who is not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?:

INDUCT NOW!!

The Surfaris, The Hollies, The Troggs, The Turtles, The Monkees, The Kingston Trio, Herman's Hermits, The Searchers, The Box Tops, The Crystals, The Harptones, The Miracles, Little Anthony and the Imperials, Tommy James and the Shondells, Paul Revere and the Raiders, The Osmonds, The Moody Blues, Blood, Sweat & Tears, Chicago, Genesis, Derek and the Dominos, The Spencer Davis Group, Blind Faith, Captain Beefheart, The Paul Butterfield Band, The Blues Project, Three Dog Night, The Doobie Brothers, The Commodores, Kool & The Gang, Dire Straits, Yes, Deep Purple, King Crimson, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Jethro Tull, Alice Cooper, KISS, Rush, The Cars, Cheap Trick, Heart, Electric Light Orchestra, REO Speedwagon, Foreigner, Journey, Styx, Boston, Kansas, America, Toto, Chic, Thin Lizzy, Blue Oyster Cult, Judas Priest, Steppenwolf, The Average White Band, The Guess Who, Canned Heat, Hot Tuna, Mott the Hoople, Gary Lewis and the Playboys, Grandfunk Railroad, Love, Supertramp, Roxy Music, Manfred Mann, Mannheim Steamroller, The Steve Miller Band, The Stooges, The New York Dolls, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Spinal Tap, KC and the Sunshine Band, Tony Orlando and Dawn, ABBA, Air Supply, Bread, War, 10cc, Ambrosia, Joy Division, New Order, Television, The Buzzcocks, Billy Idol, Duran Duran, Def Leppard, Beastie Boys, RUN DMC, INXS, Bon Jovi, 10,000 Maniacs

Peter, Paul and Mary, Jan and Dean, Sonny and Cher, Chad and Jeremy, Ashford and Simpson, Loggins and Messina, Seals and Crofts, Hall & Oates

Ella Fitzgerald, Patsy Cline, Petula Clark, Dolly Parton, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Nico, Melanie, Laura Nyro, Janis Ian, Roberta Flack, Dionne Warwick, Patti Labelle, Marianne Faithful, Anne Murray, Darlene Love, Cher, Tina Turner, Bette Midler, Carly Simon, Linda Ronstadt, Donna Summer, Gloria Gaynor, The Pointer Sisters, Olivia Newton-John, Cyndi Lauper, Pat Benatar, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts

Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Mel Torme, Pat Boone, Willie Nelson, Harry Belafonte, The Big Bopper, Chubby Checker, Bobby Rydell, Paul Anka, Neil Sedaka, Dick Dale, Donovan, Fabian, Tom Jones, Neil Diamond, Engelbert Humperdink, Kenny Rogers, Randy Newman, Phil Ochs, Don Ho, Don McLean, Jim Croce, Cat Stevens, John Denver, Joe Cocker, Ringo Starr, Barry White, Lou Rawls, Albert King, Joe Tex, Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk, Todd Rundgren, Billy Preston, Leon Russell, Merle Haggard, Gram Parsons, Gordon Lightfoot, Steve Winwood, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Lionel Richie, Don Henley, Sting, Jeff Beck, Boz Scaggs, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Ozzy Osbourne, Lou Reed, Eddie Money, Kenny Loggins, Robert Palmer, Bryan Adams, "Weird Al" Yankovic

John Simon, Tom Dowd, Arif Mardin, Quincy Jones, Wolfman Jack, Casey Kasem, Bernie Taupin, David Foster

Posted by Roy on Monday, 05.12.08 @ 14:03pm

These are, in my opinion, the serious travesties:

1- Iggy Pop/The Stooges- it is unbelievable that they delve as far into punk/new wave to induct Blondie and The Pretenders without Iggy, who is like the Chuck Berry of the genre.

2- Tom Waits- in my opinion, the most consistantly great career ever, and should get in next year if they finally acknowledge Leonard Cohen

3- Lou Reed- If the inconsistant solo careers of Paul McCartney, Eric Clapton, George Harrison and Paul Simon get in, and the VU are in, it makes no sense because Lou made better solo records than any of those guys

4- Sonic Youth- I guess they are pretty off-beat to get in, but they are the definitive band of american alternative/indie rock and most people agree with that, maybe they will be the next Stooges.

5- The Replacements- similarly obscure to Sonic Youth, but possibly made the best records of the 80s and are totally deserving(also my favorite band)

I also think in terms of punk/new wave/indie the Violent Femmes should be a shoe-in but may have to wait a very long time. I'm really suprised that The Cure and Joy Division have been passed over, considering how popular they are among rock critics and in general. I think Joy Division are already in the U.K. Hall of Fame.
The Cars are also a huge classic rock radio band that has been passed over, and if they can't get in, I can't imagine Television, The Buzzcocks or The Jam anytime soon. I also think it's weird how they seem to not be interested in Rush, Alice Cooper or The New York Dolls, three essential bands.
I hope next year they at least induct the Beastie Boys if not Run DMC and not Bon Jovi.

Posted by Brooklyn What on Tuesday, 05.13.08 @ 01:58am

Steven Van Zandt scares me, good luck New Order.

2008/2009 Ballot:

Beastie Boys (of the two rapper delights from last year, they'll be the one wisely allowed back although both totally deserve the honor)
Chic
Donna Summer
The Hollies (arggggh!)
Joe Tex (.......)
Metallica (new album boost)
Run DMC
The Stooges (back after a ballot break, thankfully, someone at the Rock Hall likes them)

I guess we can add The Smiths/Pulp to the snubbed list which is probably a 1MB text file by now. It seems like they HAVE to add Joy Division to the next ballot or they'll look totally ridiculous putting up mainstream selections that were already sharply knocked down and/or another choice as bad as The Hollies/Mellencamp, etc.

Posted by Casper on Sunday, 05.18.08 @ 19:52pm

K, here's an attempt. Tell me what I missed, Liam, or if I screwed up anywhere.

I don't count even a minor argument before the 1961 crowd.

1961/1986: The Marvelettes

I'm sure minor cases can be made for Willie Nelson or Ben E. King.

1962/1987: nobody, don't even try.

1963/1988: nobody

A very good argument could be made for a Darlene Love/Crystals hybrid inductee, but Spector's induction made most people satisfied with the real genius of Wall of Sound being inducted. Really, it would just be Spector-freaks like me begging for this one although I really do think The Ronettes were one of the best girl groups of the 60's, if not THE best.

1964/1989: nope

Minors worth discussing: Zombies/Mood(ies)

1965/1990: Nico

1966/1991: Captain Beefheart/MC5/Love

Minor: Tim Buckley. I'd swing towards him being well deserving but AFTER plenty of others. I'd put The Monkees in the minor category as well. There were plenty of manufactured 60's groups and their singles resume ink really stands up off the paper.

1967/1992: Harry Nillson, Jimmy Cliff

1968/1993: Can/Genesis/T.Rex

1969/1994: Alice Cooper/Nick Drake/Stooges

Minors: Warren Zevon/Yes

1970/1995: none

1971/1996: Kraftwerk

Minor: Thin Lizzy (maybe that's the Belle & Sebastian fan in me speaking too much for this one)

1972/1997: Lou Reed/Roxy Music

1973/1998: Tom Waits

Minors: Rush (can't wait to hear the flack I get for this)/New York Dolls

1974/1999: Brian Eno

Minors: Donna Summer/Kiss

1975/2000: none!

1976/2001: The Modern Lovers

Minor: Boston (barely)

1977/2002: The Buzzcocks/The Jam/Wire/XTC

Minors: Cheap Trick/Chic/Iggy Pop(solo)/Television (longevity issue)

1978/2003: Black Flag/The Cars/The Cure/Devo/The Fall/Gang of Four/Joy Division/X

Minors: Dire Straits/Kate Bush/Siouxsie & The Banshees

1979/2004: The B-52s/Iron Maiden/The Specials

Minors: Def Leppard/Echo and the Bunnymen/Lucinda Williams

1980/2005: Afrika Bambaataa/Minutemen

Minors: The Go-Betweens/INXS

1981/2006: Depeche Mode/Husker Du/Meat Puppets/Mission of Burma/New Order/The Replacements

Minor: Minor Threat (yeah, I know)

1982/2007: Beastie Boys/Cocteau Twins/Metallica/Sonic Youth/Talk Talk

Minor: Big Black/Violent Femmes

1983/2008: Run DMC/The Smiths

Minor: Stevie Ray Vaughn




Alright, here's the tantrum block that all of you can edit to your own liking:

1961/1986: The Marvelettes
1965/1990: Nico
1966/1991: Captain Beefheart/MC5/Love
1967/1992: Harry Nillson, Jimmy Cliff
1968/1993: Can/Genesis/T.Rex
1969/1994: Alice Cooper/Nick Drake/Stooges
1971/1996: Kraftwerk
1972/1997: Lou Reed/Roxy Music
1973/1998: Tom Waits
1974/1999: Brian Eno
1976/2001: The Modern Lovers
1977/2002: The Buzzcocks/The Jam/Wire/XTC
1978/2003: Black Flag/The Cars/The Cure/Devo/The Fall/Gang of Four/Joy Division/X
1979/2004: The B-52s/Iron Maiden/The Specials
1980/2005: Afrika Bambaataa/Minutemen
1981/2006: Depeche Mode/Husker Du/Meat Puppets/Mission of Burma/New Order/The Replacements
1982/2007: Beastie Boys/Cocteau Twins/Metallica/Sonic Youth/Talk Talk
1983/2008: Run DMC/The Smiths

Posted by Casperq on Sunday, 05.18.08 @ 20:36pm

There's actually a few I good arguments to be made from pre-61/86 that I can see.

1956/1981: The Mothers of Invention (I'm going by the release date of their debut, Freak Out!, and I'm not totally sure whether they got in with Zappa)(they don't have an FRH page, btw)/John Coltrane (I see no problem with jazz being included)


1957/1982: hmmm...

Minor: Screamin' Jay Hawkins (I'd lean toward 'no' for him)


1958/1983: None, really

Minor: Serge Gainsbourg


*2 years empty*


1961/1986:The Marvelettes (not THAT big a snub, in my eyes, but I think they should)

Minor: Ben E. King/Willie Nelson


*2 years empty*


1964/1989: No major snubs

Minor: Hollies/Moody Blues/Zombies


1965/1990: Nico

Minors: John Cale/Randy Newman


1966/1991: Captain Beefheart/Love/MC5

Minors: Monkees/Small Faces/Tim Buckley


1967/1992: Harry Nillson/Jimmy Cliff

Minors: Gram Parsons/Jeff Beck/Red Krayola


1968/1993: Can/Genesis/T.Rex

Minors: Blood Sweat & Tears/Blue Cheer/Deep Purple/Free/Iron Butterfly/Jethro Tull/Silver Apples (as an early influence/innovation to electronica)


1969/1994: Alice Cooper/King Crimson (you FORGOT them, and I always thought you loved prog ;)/Nick Drake/Stooges/Yes

Minor: Mott The Hopple


1970/1995: The Faces/Tangerine Dream

Minor: Emerson Lake & Palmer


1971/1996: Kraftwerk

Minor: Thin Lizzy


1972/1997: Big Star/Lou Reed/Roxy Music

Minor: BOC


1973/1998: ABBA/Tom Waits

Minor: Bryan Ferry/New York Dolls/Rush (agreed, they’re minor)


1974/1999: Brian Eno/Judas Priest

Minor: Donna Summer/KISS


*1 year gap (2000 = definitely none)*


1976/2001: The Damned/Modern Lovers

Minor: Nick Lowe (big maybe)


1977/2002: Buzzcocks/Cheap Trick/The Jam/Television/Wire/XTC

Minors: Chic/Iggy Pop/The Mekons/Motorhead/Peter Gabriel/Suicide/Throbbing Gristle


1978/2003: The Birthday Party/Black Flag/The Cars/The Cure/Devo/The Fall (EAT YERSELF FITTER)/Gang of Four/Joy Division/Pere Ubu/Public Image Ltd. (early influence for post-punk + post-rock)/Siouxsie & The Banshees/X (watch my inner post-punk fan shine through from now on ;)

Minors: Dire Straits/Human League/Kate Bush/Magazine/Squeeze/Undertones


1979/2004: B-52s/Bauhaus/Madness/Iron Maiden/Specials

Minor: Dead Kennedys/Echo and the Bunnymen/Fad Gadget/Killing Joke/Lucinda Williams


1980/2005: Afrika Bambaataa/English Beat/Minutemen

Minors: Durutti Column/Go-Betweens/INXS/Smithereens


1981/2006: Depeche Mode/Husker Du/Meat Puppets/Mission of Burma/New Order/The Replacements

Minors: A Flock of Seagulls/Duran Duran/Ministry/Minor Threat (*laugh tracker*)/ Robyn Hitchcock/Tears For Fears

1982/2007: Beastie Boys/Cocteau Twins/Metallica/Sonic Youth/Talk Talk

Minors: Bad Brains/Big Black/Violent Femmes/Waterboys


1983/2008: Run DMC/The Smiths/Stevie Ray Vaughan

Minors: Billy Bragg/Pulp



So, my tantrum block is as follows:

1956/1981: John Coltrane/The Mothers of Invention
1961/1986: The Marvelettes
1965/1990: Nico
1966/1991: Captain Beefheart/Love/MC5
1967/1992: Harry Nillson/Jimmy Cliff
1968/1993: Can/Genesis/T.Rex
1969/1994: Alice Cooper/King Crimson/Nick Drake/Stooges/Yes
1970/1995: The Faces/Tangerine Dream
1971/1996: Kraftwerk
1972/1997: Big Star/Lou Reed/Roxy Music
1973/1998: ABBA/Tom Waits
1974/1999: Brian Eno/Judas Priest
1976/2001: The Damned/Modern Lovers
1977/2002: Buzzcocks/Cheap Trick/The Jam/Television/Wire/XTC
1978/2003: The Birthday Party/Black Flag/The Cars/The Cure/Devo/The Fall/Gang of Four/Joy Division/Pere Ubu/Public Image Ltd./Siouxsie & The Banshees/X
1979/2004: B-52s/Bauhaus/Madness/Iron Maiden/Specials
1980/2005: Afrika Bambaataa/English Beat/Minutemen
1981/2006: Depeche Mode/Husker Du/Meat Puppets/Mission of Burma/New Order/The Replacements
1982/2007: Beastie Boys/Cocteau Twins/Metallica/Sonic Youth/Talk Talk
1983/2008: Run DMC/The Smiths/Stevie Ray Vaughan


I've got quite a few that you're missing on yours (WHERE THE HELL IS KING CRIMSON ON YOURS,ki FFS?) so tell me what you think.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 10:55am

"It seems like they HAVE to add Joy Division to the next ballot or they'll look totally ridiculous putting up mainstream selections that were already sharply knocked down and/or another choice as bad as The Hollies/Mellencamp, etc."-Casper

Nah, I see them putting someone like Depeche Mode or The Cure on the ballot to try and grasp at credibility whilst still not branching to far into "indie." A few board members might have become aware recently through the biopic or the remasters/releases, maybe even enough for JD to get consideration, but they probably won't get nominated so long as ass holes like Little Steven remain alive.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 17:02pm

They're going to keep the same nominees that were on the ballot last year and lost, plus 6 other nominees.

The 2009 Rock And Roll Hall of Fame

The Hollies
Herman's Hermits
Donna Summer
Chic
The Beastie Boys

Posted by Roy on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 17:28pm

I did my list freehand without looking at my list of ranked snubs which included John Coltrane/King Crimson. No worries about those.

Zappa's in there for his work with the Mothers of Invention. Even if it's not explicitly stated, we know better. Take that one off.

The Faces...I disregard that one because it's the only truly credible reason for Rod Stewart ending up in the Hall far earlier than he deserved.

Tangerine Dream...hmmm. They're kind of to Kraftwerk what MC5 are to the Stooges. An act just as important in the formation of the genre but one that hardly anybody listens to after the fact. I'd swing them into the "minor" category barring their work suddenly being reappraised which is not an impossibility.

I unintentionally left Big Star off the list. Once again, could've saved you the trouble had I looked at my other text file. Same goes for ABBA.

Judas Priest...I can go either way between major or minor. The fact that their induction doesn't make me cringe is enough.

The Damned. Sorry, the case just doesn't add up for me. I don't think anybody's pulling out their records. A historical footnote.

Cheap Trick were too hammy at times and no longer have the immediate impact that they had for a few years, hence why I listed them as a "minor"

Birthday Party - just give Nick Cave his own induction and you've covered that a la Rod Stewart/Faces.

Pere Ubu - at least a minor. I DESPERATELY need to listen to their stuff after reading the Wiki. I'll come back to you on this one.

Public Image Ltd. - Wasn't even sure if I should list them as minor but it'd be criminal not too. Obviously, you give it the extra push being a UK resident and I sort of do the opposite.

Siouxsie. I got this one wrong and was feeling conflicted about it. Score one for Liam, they totally should be in, no question.

Bauhaus. Now there's a name. Not a fan to be honest but I had a roommate who was. At least a minor but they fall just short of needing immediate induction for me.

Madness. Try again, I don't buy this one.

English Beat, better argument than Madness, more consistent. It's hard to say who needs to go in for ska/reggae and how many. Jimmy Cliff first, and The Specials' debut album alone makes them a second. Should there be more?

SRV was some white dude that could play the guitar well but he also was probably the most commercially successful bluesman in history but mostly for those two reasons. No need to differ on opinions concerning this one, he's going in next year.


Great job with your list, hope we have a third opinion that can help us edit/expand some more.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 18:59pm

Now going to go over the Minors...

Screamin' Jay Hawkins - almost put this man on there. Fine with him.

Serge Gainsbourg - Same as above.

I see there's no Crystals/Darlene Love from you. I take it you agree with the "Spector's in, that's enough" sentiment?

Hollies - shitty. Can't go along with this.

John Cale - close, but no cigar for a major. Good call.

Randy Newman - was actually a major on my other snub list. I'll keep it that way.

Gram Parsons/Jeff Beck were no brainers. Definitely on the "I can accept them in there after the major omissions" list

Red Krayola - Nah, nice find though.

Blood Sweat & Tears - sure.

Blue Cheer - can dig it.

Deep Purple - ok.

Free - a truly minor case but it reminds me that I wouldn't mind a Bad Company induction.

Iron Butterfly - way too cheesy. It's a no.

Jethro Tull - but please, after like 85 others.

Silver Appples - certainly a must if they go the direction of honoring the crowded electronica field.

Mott the Hoople - I'd lump them in with Badfinger, no dice.

You didn't list Warren Zevon. He's at least a minor, no?

ELP - sure, whatever.

BOC - You can't be serious. That would just open the floodgates to practically anyone that's ever had a few radio hits.

Bryan Ferry - unnecessary.

Nick Lowe - I agree. I'd lean towards not listing him though.

Mekons - I make the case against Television on a longevity basis and it's the same thing that hurts The Mekons.

Motorhead - I'll see how I feel when KISS finally gets in. If I'm not spontaneously vomiting everywhere I might add these guys to my list.

Peter Gabriel - yep.

Suicide - see Mekons.

Throbbing Gristle - this American disagrees.

Human League/Squeeze - my bad.

Magazine - covered by The Buzzcocks' eventual plaque.

Undertones - Another gem from that era, you've got it all down, Liam.

Dead Kennedys - was going to list them, felt a bit embarrassed for this or that reason.

You didn't list Def Leppard. Let's just agree to say "no" to hair-metal then.

Fat Gadget - obscure, even for you. Magic 8 Ball is reading "not likely"

Killing Joke - influenced list on their Wiki makes them worth our time.

Durutti Column - Like British post-punk, much?

Smithereens - Don't shout out "hall of fame" to me.

Flock Of Seagulls - no comment.

Ministry - didn't know if I should now I think I should've

Robyn Hitchcock - OMG! Oops.

Tears For Fears - almost listed them, upon reflection...yes.

Bad Brains - almost listed that one, different enough selection to deserve it.

Waterboys - nah.

Billy Bragg/Pulp - Sure, but I raise you Pulp as a major.

Don't agree at all with Yes being a disturbing omission. Then again, I'm biased against prog-rock and proud of it.


Revised:


1956/1981: John Coltrane
1961/1986: The Marvelettes
1965/1990: Nico/Randy Newman
1966/1991: Captain Beefheart/Love/MC5
1967/1992: Harry Nillson/Jimmy Cliff
1968/1993: Can/Genesis/T.Rex
1969/1994: Alice Cooper/King Crimson/Nick Drake/Stooges
1971/1996: Kraftwerk
1972/1997: Big Star/Lou Reed/Roxy Music
1973/1998: ABBA/Tom Waits
1974/1999: Brian Eno/Judas Priest
1976/2001: The Modern Lovers
1977/2002: The Buzzcocks/The Jam/Wire/XTC
1978/2003: Black Flag/The Cars/The Cure/Devo/The Fall/Gang of Four/Joy Division/Siouxsie & The Banshees/X
1979/2004: The B-52s/Iron Maiden/The Specials
1980/2005: Afrika Bambaataa/Minutemen
1981/2006: Depeche Mode/Husker Du/Meat Puppets/Mission of Burma/New Order/The Replacements
1982/2007: Beastie Boys/Cocteau Twins/Metallica/Sonic Youth/Talk Talk
1983/2008: Pulp/Run DMC/The Smiths/Stevie Ray Vaughn (In anyway)


Minors:

1957/1982: Screamin' Jay Hawkins
1958/1983: Serge Gainsbourg
1961/1986: Ben E. King/Willie Nelson
1963/1988: The Crystals and Darlene Love
1964/1989: Moody Blues/Zombies
1965/1990: John Cale
1966/1991: Monkees/Tim Buckley
1967/1992: Gram Parsons/Jeff Beck
1968/1993: Blood Sweat & Tears/Blue Cheer/Deep Purple/Free/Jethro Tull/Silver Apples
1969/1994: Warren Zevon/Yes
1970/1995: ELP/Tangerine Dream
1971/1996: Thin Lizzy
1973/1998: New York Dolls/Rush
1974/1999: Donna Summer/Kiss
1976/2001: The Damned/Boston
1977/2002: Cheap Trick/Chic/Iggy Pop/Television
1978/2003: Dire Straits/Kate Bush/Human League/Pere Ubu/Public Image Ltd./Squeeze/Undertones
1979/2004: Echo and the Bunnymen/Killing Joke/Lucinda Williams
1980/2005: Go-Betweens/INXS
1981/2006: Ministry/Minor Threat/Robyn Hitchcock/Tears For Fears
1982/2007: Bad Brains/Big Black/Violent Femmes
1983/2008: Billy Bragg

Posted by Casper on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 19:53pm

Need a Nick Cave induction SOMEWHERE. Hmm.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 19:54pm

What about Donovan and Gary Lewis & The Playboys?

Posted by joker on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 20:54pm

Donovan's a cool 60's icon but I don't his catalog withstands (what-should-be) Hall scrutiny.

Gary Lewis & The Playboys...kind of a long forgotten, nominal 60's act. Kind of? Pft. It's what they are.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 21:35pm

Most egregious omissions thus far:

Yes
Genesis
Peter Gabriel
Jeff Beck
Sonic Youth
The Cure
Metallica

Also should be inducted or at least seriously discussed by the Central Committee:

Willie Nelson (if Johnny Cash is in, then Willie should be in)
Big Star (for influence at least)
Paul Butterfield Blues Band (line-up with Michael Bloomfield)
The Cars
The Church
Dick Dale
Dire Straits
Depeche Mode
Devo
Donovan
Nick Drake
Duran Duran
Echo & the Bunnymen
13th Floor Elevators/Roky Erikson
Heart
INXS
J. Geils Band
James Gang
Journey
Joy Division
New Order
KISS
Judas Priest
King Crimson
Los Lobos
Love
MC5
Steve Miller Band
Motorhead
Randy Newman
Ozzy Osbourne
Iggy Pop / Stooges
Psychedelic Furs
Lou Reed
Roxy Music
Rush
Steppenwolf
Cat Stevens
Stephen Stills
T. Rex
Tears For Fears
Thin Lizzy
Richard Thompson
Pete Townshend
Tina Turner (solo)
Steve Winwood
Warren Zevon
Gram Parsons
Gene Clark

Posted by Dezmond on Monday, 05.19.08 @ 21:53pm

I have some suggestions for artists that could be considered minor or major acts:
Herbie Hancock (1956/1981)
Patsy Cline (1957/1982)
John Mayall (1965/1990)
Fairport Convention (1967/1992)
Dr. John (1968/1993)
Ry Cooder (1970/1995)
Todd Rundgren (1970/1995)
Little Feat (1971/1996)

Posted by The Claw on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 04:32am

Done a little differently. Not everything can be objective. They are in no reasonable order.

Most glaring ommissions: (Induct Now)

Deep Purple
Alice Cooper
Stooges
ELP
NY Dolls

Bernie Taupin - Non-performer

Secondary List - Induct in the next 5 years!

King Crimson
T. Rex
INXS
Television
The Runaways
The Replacements
The Moody Blues
The Monkees
The Cure
Echo and the Bunnymen
Roxy Music
Yes
Pat Benetar
Heart
Metallica
KISS (I really dislike them)
Buzzcocks

One Day I Hope Soon List

Motorhead
Squeeze
Genesis
Jethro Tull
Joy Division
Nick Drake
Depeche Mode
Gang of Four
Def Leppard (They're not a Hair Metal Band)
Sonic Youth
Judas Priest
The Smiths
Iron Maiden
Black Flag
Misfits
Bad Brains
SRV
Rush
GoGo's

Guilty Pleasures, but I don't hold out much hope

Suzi Quatro
Thin Lizzy
Ozzy and Rhodes
MC 5
Psych. Furs
Duran Duran
The Specials
The English Beat
Lords of the New Church
The Cars
Mountain
James Gang
Arthur Brown
Motley Crue (If just for Tommy Lee's drumming)

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 05:41am

Majors:

Mothers of Invention - yeah, I was pretty sure they were in with Frank Zappa. I just put them in to be safe (and plump up my ‘60s picks)

Tangerine Dream - I’d put them in after a lot of major electronic groups (Krafties, NO etc.)

The Damned - guess I could make a case that they helped punk’s evolution into hardcore. Inconsistence in the studio holds them back quite a lot.

Cheap Trick - they were on the major/minor border, I just pushed them into major.

Birthday Party - yeah, just put them in with ol’ Loverman.

Pere Ubu - at least a minor. The Modern Dance is a fantastic piece of art-punk, btw.

Public Image Ltd. - I’d DEFINITELY call them as a major. There SO wouldn’t be post-punk or post-rock without them. I don’t think you could get away with doing a John Lydon shrine here, though.

Siouxise - Defo. Bob Smith and co. shouldn’t be allowed in if The Banshees aren’t in.

Bauhaus - put them in a few years down the post-punk line.

Madness - I definitely think they fit the influence bill. Come on, BLUR took influence from them!

English Beat - I don’t think you could induct any more than ten ska/revival acts. UB40 et al. can go suck a fat one.


Minors:

Yeah, Spector’s in, which is probably enough, in my eyes.

Hollies - I dunno. You could make the influence case, I guess….

Red Krayola - I see their influence and impact increasing with more weirdo bands like Animal Collective springing up. I’d probably say no as it stands atm. TRANS-PAR-ENT RADI-A-SHUN

Mott the Hopple - maybe after a LOT more glams.

Warren Zevon - hmmm…..yeah, I’ll give you him.

Blue Oyster Cult - I think I could make the influence case. Am not a fan in the least bit, but come on..

Bryan Ferry - yeah, shove him in with Roxy

Mekons - keep them as minors.

Motorhead - you’re comparing them to KISS?! WTF? Surely they had enough of a hand in thrash to deserve consideration? You'd consider BOSTON and not Lemmy?!

Peter Gabriel - not a HUGE snub, but he’s a must somewhere down the line. Again, I think XTC were the TRUE masters of art-pop.

Suicide - Silver Apples and not Suicide?

Throbbing Gristle - I would.

Magazine - give them a small mention with los Buzzcocks. Semi-influential.

Def Leppard - no way in hell do they get in for allowing more crap.

Fad Gadget - inconsistent work, really. Quite influential, but not as influential as, say...

Killing Joke - I’m actually gonna shove them up to a major after seeing that Influenced bit on Wiki.

Durutti Column - Maybe...not yet though.

Smithereens/AFoS - I don’t really remember what made me put them in.

Ministry - yeah, but not before Killing Joke (at least).

Waterboys - let’s see where the ’00s twee-pop goes and then I’ll give you an answer.

Pulp - no way in hell are they deserving of induction on th anniversary of their crappy ‘80s synth/glam pop recordings. I know some other artists have bee


I’d go with your block, just remove Boston and Pulp (for now), and crank Killing Joke up to a major.

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 11:00am

Dezmond, you ARE kidding with Heart and Pete Townshend's insignificant solo career, no?

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 11:13am

INXS? WTF?! Quite literally no one cites them...

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 11:21am

The Claw, I totally agree with Herbie Hancock. Would not be surprised if he was soon nominated thanks to his big Grammy night. Herbie's a major.

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 16:16pm

Well, I don't have near the patience to really put together a list, but it just seems there are a few from the pre-'61 crowd that are missing.

Diamonds--They really haven't inducted a doo-wop group (I really don't count the Flamingos or Moonglows, as their styles were really closer to the Platters than to doo-wop), and doo-wop was an important face/phase of early rock'n'roll. There are few "powerhouse" doo-wop acts, and the Diamonds stand out among the tops, even if most of their stuff was R&B covers

Buddy Knox--probably the last of the early rock'n'roll guitarists who helped pave the way. A really short lived hit-streak, but it seems he belongs too.

Big Bopper--You could make just as strong of a case to keep him out as put him in. I feel that just listening to what back catalog of material he had really provides the context. Country witticism with walking blues. It's one that's a hard sell, but I wouldn't object to seeing him in.

Chubby Checker--The man got the country dancin'. Rock'n'roll dance records were everywhere (going back to Chuck Willis, I know), and Chubby was the main reason they were.

Just a couple off the top of my head.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 16:51pm

Orange Juice (1980/2005 class) does not have a page at FutureRockHall. Disturbing. I say MAJOR. What do you reckon, Liam?

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 17:32pm

The Flamingos were not Doo Wop??? Are you kidding me? They were the greatest Doo Wop group of all time.All one needs to do is drop the needle on 'Lovers Never Say Goodbye'.

Posted by Steve on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 19:45pm

I've heard "Lovers Never Say Goodbye" AND "Your Other Love." However, songs like "Mio Amore," "Time Was," and "I Only Have Eyes For You" are much much more typical of the Flamingos than songs like "Lovers Never Say Goodbye."

Though I suppose you could say they did get a doo-wop group in with Frankie Lymon And The Teenageers. Still, the Diamonds are a more obvious example and a glaring omission.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 19:50pm

I wasn't kidding with Heart or Townshend. Like I said, they are worthy at least of being discussed by the Committee. That list I gave was rather long, there are many others I listed who should be considered before Heart or Townshend.

BUT, if I am using individuals that the RRHoF has already inducted as a benchmark for comparison? Townshend had a much more important and successful solo career than George Harrison or Paul McCartney. Putting Harrison in there for his solo work, after he was already inducted as a Beatle, is ridiculous. But if they are going to do that, then Townshend's solo work greatly overshadows that of Harrison. The quality is there: 'Empty Glass' was solid, 'All the Best Cowboys Have Chinese Eyes' is an overlooked masterpiece, his collaboration with Ronnie Lane was great, 'White City' is flawed but mostly great. What did Harrison have? 'All Things Must Pass' is the ONLY thing of note.

Heart? I almost didn't list them at all, but they were a big 70's hit machine, and honestly, the Hall needs more chicks, so I threw them on my list. But I can't really argue too vigorously for them. Cut 'em if you want.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 05.20.08 @ 22:08pm

Casper, I totally forgot about Orange Juice.. :( I'd call them a major.

I think Townshend being in the HoF with the Who is enough, and I don't think either his nor Harrison's solo careers warrant induction.

I don't think Heart should be allowed anywhere near the Hall. Their innovation is non-exisant, their influence small, and there's quite a few woman-led rockers who I think deserve in instead.

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 10:15am

p-u-n-k=s-h-i-t
p-o-s-t p-u-n-k=s-h-i-t-t-i-e-r

Posted by classicrocker on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 10:54am

c-l-a-s-s-i-c r-o-c-k = a f-e-e-b-l-e e-x-c-us-e f-o-r a s-u-b-g-e-n-r-e

Go away with your shitty, uninformed opinions.

Posted by Liam on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 11:29am

You know more about rock post-1980, but I know more about rock pre-1980; and the stuff I know pre-1980 is better than the stuff you know post-1980.

Posted by classicrocker on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 12:06pm

Besides, classic rock is not a subgenre, it's a radio station label. I wouldn't pay too much attention to Liam if I were you, classicrocker. He gets quite touchy about his post-1980 alternative rock. And Dezmond, shut up. Pete Townshend's solo career is completely insignificant, especially compared to Paul McCartney's. And finally, Orange Juice? Is that the name of a band?

Posted by Metalsmith on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 12:59pm

Aren't you all tired of this ongoing battle "punk/post-punk" vs "Hard Rock/Heavy Metal"? There is good, bad and ugly in all these genres/sub-genres. And one genre is not more important than the other. Just enjoy the music.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 14:09pm

Pete's solo career is nowhere near McCartney's or Harrison's. Only a Who fanboy would buy into that.

yes, metalsmith, Orange Juice is a band. They're better than anything you listen to.

Posted by Casper on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 14:11pm

Metalsmith, I usually don't bother reading Liam's or Casper's pomposity--just this morning when I read Liam calling Philip's picks "shi**y" I kinda wanted to "put him in his place" and give him a taste of his own venom.

It's interesting though that the webmaster didn't seem to like Liam's attitude either since that line in Liam's post this morning directed toward Philip has been deleted.

As for Dezmond's list: it's ok but I think Stephen Stills has been honored enough with 2 inductions-1 for CSN and Buffalo Springfield. His song "Love The One You're With" might have been culturally monumental back in the day but not enough to warrant a 3rd induction as a solo act.

Posted by classicrocker on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 14:14pm

Here the Artist that Deserve To Be In (No Specific Order)

1. Metallica- They are Rock/Metal Icons, they have alot of great songs, sold millions of albums. Biggest Song: Enter Sandman

2. Stooges- They were pioneers to the whole Punk movement. Iggy Pop is a one of kind performer. Biggest Song: I Wanna Be Your Dog

3. Beastie Boys- First hugely successful white rap group. Has several great raps. Biggest Song: Fight For Your Right To Party

4. Run DMC- One of the first true hip hop artist ever Biggest Song: Walk This Way & It's Tricky

5. Sting- He is a music Icon, he had huge solo sucess Biggest Song: Set Them Free

6. Janet Jackson- Pop/R&B Icon Biggest Song: Nasty

7. Bon Jovi- Rock Icons, several big hits
Biggest Song: Livin On A Prayer

8. Stevie Ray Vaughn- Blues Icon, great guitar player who died too young
Biggest Song: Pride and Joy

9. Rush- Considered as one of the greatest trios of all-time, Neil Peart is considered as one of the greatest drummers of all-time
Biggest Song: Tom Swayer

10. Dire Straits- Mark Knopfler and the gang have a string of great songs
Biggest Song: Money For Nothing

11. Alice Cooper- Pioneer to Shock Rock
Biggest Song: School's Out

12. The Cars- One of the most successful New Wave Bands of the 70's/80's, has alot of great songs, and has become very influencial in recent years.
Biggest Song: Just What I Needed

13. Def Leppard- Rock/Metal Icons, have several big albums and hits, Rick Allen plays the drums with one arm, that's committment to music.
Biggest Song: Pour Sum Sugar On Me

14. Eurythmics- New Wave and MTV Icons
Biggest Song: Sweet Dreams

15. Genesis- Pioneers to Progressive/Art Rock, Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins both fronted the band, Phil Collins is consider as a great drummer.
Biggest Song: Turn It On Again

16. KISS- They were one of a kind, Rock Icons, Original, considered as one of the all-time best Live Bands
Biggest Song: Rock & Roll All Nite

17. Peter Gabriel- Rock Icon, Reinvented the art form of Music Videos
Biggest Song: Sledgehammer

18. Tina Turner- Music Icon, One of the most influencial woman performer's of all-time
Biggest Song; What's Love Got To Do With It

19. Yes- Progessive/Art Rock Pioneers, great well-rounded musicians
Biggest Song: Owner of The Lonely Heart

20. Journey- Arena Rock Icons, Reinvented Rock and Roll Concerts, one of the great live rock bands of the 80's. Steve Perry has a powerful voice.
Biggest Song: Don't Stop Believin

21. Ozzy Osborne- Metal Icon, Prince of Darkness, Bits the heads off Bats, his solo career is as impotant as Black Sabbath.
Biggest Song: Crazy Train

22. Heart- One of the first woman rock bands to emerge, has a string of big hits.
Biggest Song: Barracuda

23. Deep Purple- considered as one of the influences to Harder Rock/Metal genre.
Biggest Song: Smoke On The Water

Posted by Kyle on Wednesday, 05.21.08 @ 21:37pm

Sorry, but "sh*tty" is the only way to describe Chubby Checker being nominated or inducted. Feel free to disagree, but he has NOTHING in the way of importance (or quality).

Completely disagree with (at least) 10 of your picks (guess which!), Kyle, and there's a bunch of factual inaccuracies in your post, such as saying that KISS were "original" or that Ozzy's solo career is as important as Black Sabbath.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 04:32am

"p-u-n-k=s-h-i-t
p-o-s-t p-u-n-k=s-h-i-t-t-i-e-r," - classiccocker

You define "pompous."

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 04:37am

c-l-a-s-s-i-c r-o-c-k = a f-e-e-b-l-e e-x-c-us-e f-o-r a s-u-b-g-e-n-r-e - Liam

I am surprised Liam - you usually don't make mistakes like this. As much as I hate sub-genre titles; Classic Rock is not one of them.

And Shoe Gazing has to be the lamest excuse for a sub-genre. I am not saying that the bands and music are not good, but it certainly did not require its own title.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 08:14am

Except for the part where shoegazer bands actually do/did follow common musical elements and influences.

Why the hell do you have a problem sub-genre titles? Sorry, but it justs sounds like a case of "IT POLLUTES THE PURE RAAAWK!!!" without clarification.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 08:24am

Why the hell do you have a problem sub-genre titles? - Liam

Liam - I think when music is pigeon-holed, the access to the listening public is minimized and that is sad to and I don't feel like writing verse and chapter on my views. If we were in a gin mill discussing music, then it would be a different story.

Sorry, but it justs sounds like a case of "IT POLLUTES THE PURE RAAAWK!!!" without clarification. - Liam

Save your "Raawk" b.s. for someone else. Pollute what? I am not the one who hates any specific genre because I think it is mindless or simple or whatever. I listen to music for enjoyment. I listened to them all and I didn't give a sh*t what they were labeled. I enjoy Oasis as much as I enjoy The Church, NY Dolls, The Who, The Beatles, Led Zep, Clash, Guided by Voices and a thousand other bands, including Def Leppard and equally I dislike bands like Bon Jovi, Cocteau Twins, Blue Oyster Cult, Foreigner, Nelson and a hundred other bands. I don't give a crap what sub-genre they are in. I cannot help it - I am subjective in what I enjoy.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 11:03am

Of course, because MBV would've been world-wide chart toppers had the NME never coined term "Shoegazing."

How the hell does it "pigeon-hole" anything? If the listening public actually gave a crap, they'd go and look for music rather than let it be force-fed to them by the mainstream. But of course, rather than actually try and find anything with an ounce of substance, they're happy to sit around with their mindless entertainment, whatever it may be.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 11:47am

Casper - what about considering the Pop Group (who haven't got a page, btw)? I'd say minor, at least.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 13:31pm

If the listening public actually gave a crap, they'd go and look for music rather than let it be force-fed to them by the mainstream. - Liam

I disagree with most of this assertion. Perhaps in today's era because of the internet and satelite radio, you can make this statement. But you could not make that statement in "67", "77", "87" and in some places "97". Besides radio and clubs, you heard about new music through word of mouth or little record stores that specialized in imports. And I am sure that you are aware that unless you lived in a port city or heavily traveled city, you might not here the newest thing until it was already passe.

But of course, rather than actually try and find anything with an ounce of substance, they're happy to sit around with their mindless entertainment, whatever it may be. - Liam

Who are you to say what is mindless entertainment? If someone prefers certain types of music over others, that is their choice. Personally, I accept the importance of many of the bands that you champion, but that does not mean that I like the music. I think a lot of it was garbage. But that is just my opinion. It is subjective, just like your opinion is.

Of course, because MBV would've been world-wide chart toppers had the NME never coined term "Shoegazing." - Liam

I assume you mean the New Musical Express which is based in England? You do realize that the NME means squat to most people on this side of the pond?

Shoegazing: - term created to describe bands that basically stared at their feet during live performances. As I once stated, a genre was created just to describe bands that basically had zero stage presence.

I copy/paste this from Wiki: "The shoegazing sound featured extensive use of guitar effects, and indistinguishable vocal melodies that blended into the creative noise of the guitars."

My garage band was doing this in 1974. Maybe I should be in the Hall of Fame :-)

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 13:35pm

Of course, because MBV would've been world-wide chart toppers - Liam

I cannot comment on MBV as I do not know how their record label promoted them. Don't get me wrong, around 1975 the radio stations started becoming a bit too full of themselves as well, especially those with older "Musical Programmers". From my understanding, if a programmer received a new record that was billed as "punk" or whatever, they didn't play it. This is probably why College radio started having a bigger impact on what was going on.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 13:54pm

k.d. lang!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Her voice is the best out there!!!

Posted by M on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 14:18pm

"I disagree with most of this assertion. Perhaps in today's era because of the internet and satelite radio, you can make this statement. But you could not make that statement in "67", "77", "87" and in some places "97"." - Dameon

So how do explain how totally god-awful the mainstream is now, then? If anything, the mainstream is collectively WORSE now than in 67, 77, 97 and maybe even 87.

People do not care about quality. They care about how much the music is going to entertain them.

"Who are you to say what is mindless entertainment? If someone prefers certain types of music over others, that is their choice." - Dameon

Because I can draw a line between what I enjoy and what I think of as having quality. Again, there's alot of stuff that I don't enjoy but can readily admit the worth of. I don't actually care about the "it's just your opinion and all opinions are equal" crap. People wouldn't deify Linkin Park or kORN if they knew Faith No More, for example.

"Personally, I accept the importance of many of the bands that you champion, but that does not mean that I like the music. I think a lot of it was garbage. But that is just my opinion. It is subjective, just like your opinion is." - Dameon

Then say WHY you think it's garbage and you might get somewhere. If you don't, then I can only treat your opinion as that - an opinion. I'm happy to champion/argue about the quality of 'Band X,' just like I can argue as to why Fall Out Boy make some of the most generic, cloying hackery to insult my ears since Def Leppard.

"You do realize that the NME means squat to most people on this side of the pond? " - Dameon

Actually, the NME has a pretty big following across the pond, from all accounts. So by "most people" I guess you're just talking about the people you know.

"As I once stated, a genre was created just to describe bands that basically had zero stage presence." - Dameon

You've evidently never heard of Ride.

"My garage band was doing this in 1974." - Dameon

FFS, have you even listened to any of it? It's just I'm pretty sure that if your band was so ahead of its time it would have risen to the surface by now.

Interesting how you haven't yet given your own statements on Shoegaze's sound and have copy/pasted from Wiki instead. Have you actually listened to any of it?

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 14:21pm

OK boys, fire when ready!!


Connie Francis
Neil Sedaka
Petula Clark
Manfred Mann
Donovan
The Troggs
The Association
Love
King Crimson
The Soft Machine
Kraftwerk
The Moody Blues

The Stooges-here you are, Liam; I threw you a bone-they
do deserve credit for igniting your "punk"
movement-almost freaky how they sounded
in 1969 like what others did in 1977.

Deep Purple
Alice Cooper
ELP
Tood Rundgren
Roxy Music
KISS
Neil Diamond
Tom Waits
Beastie Boys


and for some comedic relief,

Ken Nordine

Posted by classicrocker on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 14:30pm

Donovan - not yet. Lots of snubs who out-do him in influence and innovation, many of whom you didn't list.

The Troggs - WTF? Who next, ? and the Mysterians? Their influence and innovation are minimal. Anyway, I thought you had disdain for the punk movement (?)

The Stooges - it's not "my" punk movement. You might not like it, but if you deny it, you can't have post-punk, which in turn stops you from having alternative in the HoF (a rather large sub-genre, in case you didn't know, and one that the HoF has already started to let in).

KISS - for the umpteenth time: not before T. Rex, Slade et al. Artists who made a bigger impact to glam (and, in many cases, rock in general).

Neil Diamond - I'd take him as a non-performer.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 15:00pm

Liam - this is why I don't try and converse with you too often here. Your arguements are based on challenging everything I or anybody else says without making any counter-points. I at least try and give you a different perspective on how things are seen. But you just cannot accept or understand that some people look through a different set of lens than you.

As far as Wiki, all I was doing was giving a condensed general view of the genre that many have agreed with. It was easier and yes, I know the music.

But really, no more conversation with you.

FYI - Ride - good band; good reviews but didn't quite make it. I believe Andy Bell was in the band.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 15:16pm

I've made plenty of counters. If you don't feel like arguing, just say so, but to make up some lame-ass excuses like "you don't make counters."

ps: I brought up Ride because they actually gave great performances. Again, the term "Shoegazing" wasn't created solely because of generally-lame-and-unconfident live shows. The bands DID follow alot of musical similiarites; just think of it like hair-metal (without the part where hair-metal all sucked).

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 15:36pm

Liam - whatever!

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.22.08 @ 16:40pm

How can people seriously say that Pete Townshend's solo career pales in comparison to that of Paul McCarntey or especially George Harrison? Harrison had ONE great solo record where he was able to get out his backlog of Beatles-era compositions that Lennon/McCartney wouldn't let him use on Beatles records. After 'All Things Must Pass', his solo music both insignificant AND terrible.

Macca may have had commecial success, but most of his solo output is both saccharine and almost unlistenable. I can think of one worthwhile solo/Wings release, 'Band on the Run'. That's it. The music world would be a better place had "Silly Love Songs" not been written.

In my previous post I already laid out my arguments for Townshend as a solo artist. And I did not say he was a sure thing in my view, just that he should be seriously considered if the subpar solo Harrison and McCartney are there. Even John Lennon as a solo artist is borderline.

Somebody made the point that Stephen Stills is already in twice as a member of Buffalo Springfield and CSN. Good point. That is probably enough. Scratch him off my list as a solo artist. His good solo material was VERY good though, 'Stephen Stills', some of 'Stephen Stills II', the awesome 'Live' and the genre exploring of 'Manassas'. He could at least be seriously discussed, but his bad stuff is REALLY bad.

Posted by Dezmond on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 09:41am

lol so my picks didn't go over too well, huh? lol I'm actually pretty used to it. I'm actually not surprised by Liam's response. Chubby Checker, and most everything from the Cameo and Parkway labels, was made to be fun, and Liam seems to think that's the last thing rock'n'roll should be. But you can't deny that after Chubby hit #1 with "The Twist" a myriad of dance records flooded the marketplace. It was what helped keep rock'n'roll alive in the early sixties before the Beatles showed up. And his stuff has held up pretty well over the years in terms of continuing to be played. I have no problem recognizing the worthiness of an act I don't like, though I do like Chubby Checker. But it just seems to me that he was a huge part of rock'n'roll during the early 60's and deserves some recognition for it.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 12:44pm

He wasn't anything close to a "huge" part of rock n' roll. Chubby Checker has absolutely nothing in the ways of innovation and almost nothing as far as influence goes.

He's a dance fad; a novelty act. He shouldn't be let anywhere near the HoF.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 13:32pm

"People do not care about quality. They care about how much the music is going to entertain them." - Liam

Agreeing with you in a very broad and generalized sense Liam, I would then say that the aetists who deserve the highest praise are the ones who can manage to create something that does both, wouldn't you? Seems like this dual task would be the most difficult to pull off, and therefore merits the most accolades and regard.

Posted by shawn on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 14:04pm

I don't think making quality music is too hard to pull off, unless you're Jon Bon Jovi.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 15:16pm

Any thoughts on Porcupine, by the way?

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 15:19pm

I disagree with you, Liam. I'll grant you the innovation bit. A lot of Cameo-Parkway stuff was copies or rip-offs of other things going on musically, but to be able to even have more than 1 year of influence is pretty substantial, when you think about the world as a whole. I mean, how many fads actually last even a year, or more than a year? Chubby helped make danceable rock'n'roll a bandwagon that the industry kept trying to jump into, and he did it for 3-4 years successfully, then petered out in a hurry once the Beatles came. But dance records of the early 60's were a significant chapter of rock'n'roll history, and it's a chapter that needs an act inducted to symbolize/represent that. Chubby Checker is the most obvious candidate for that position.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 16:36pm

Chubby Checker has literally no influence, nevermind a years-full. Again, being a "fad" doesn't make you influential. There's no more than than ten artists influenced by him.

There's a handful of deserving artists from the '60s deserving who have been snubbed; Checker isn't one of them.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 17:12pm

And how many of those artists can be identified with dance record craze of the early 60's? I stand by my point there. There needs to be some sort of recognition there that's lacking.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 17:43pm

Unless you're about to pull an argument for the musical importance of your precious "'60s dance craze" crap out of your ass, no, they don't have to recognize it at all.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 17:47pm

I made that argument earlier, actually. The dance records of the early '60s were the main way that rock'n'roll was kept alive and strong throughout the early 60's. Motown hadn't quite taken off (with a couple of exceptions) into the phenom in would become, the British weren't really here at all, the Four Seasons and the Beach Boys were just getting into motion and their best works were yet to come, and the early days heroes of rock and roll had all pretty much faded out one way or another, even Chuck Berry and Fats Domino who continued releasing records were fading from the main view. "The Twist" alone is a landmark record of the '60s, that even established artists got into ("Twistin' The Night Away" by Sam Cooke immediately springs to mind.) Other dance songs about dancing began cropping, it infused with other parts of the culture (such as the Surfer's Stomp), and yes, even became a mechanism of corporate advertising ("Do The Flake" for Kellogg's, though that song came later). The dance records were a huge bridge that got us from Point A (the 50's) to Point B (the British). It was one of the major faces of rock'n'roll for its time, and it definitely needs to be recognized as such.

But hey, the HoF doesn't have to recognize it anymore than they *have* to recognize acts like Joy Division or Captain Beefheart.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 18:07pm

Will people ever learn to stop using BS metaphors for rock like "dead" o "sleeping"? Doesn't seem likely

But go on. Give me a list of artists directly influenced by Chubby Checker or this crappy dance fad you keep citing. See how far you get without mentioning chart sales, popularity or success

Maybe you're as thick as to have missed the influence and innovation part, but yeah, the Hall does have to induct JD and Beefheart, since influence and innovation are its two standards. Try again.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 18:20pm

So just substitute "alive and strong" with "socially and culturally prominent and pervasive" and then respond to the points I made.

And just look at all the records that crept up that were about or even just mentioned the Twist (and weren't by Chubby)!

Twist Twist Senora
Dear Lady Twist
Sherry (come out.. to my Twist party)
Peppermint Twist
Twistin' The Night Away
Soul Twist
Havin' A Party (Sally's doin' the Twist now)
Twist And Shout
Twistin' Postman

And those are just the ones off the top of my head. He may not have been a major factor in many bands' or solo artists' "sound," but his reach did have a fair bit of extent for its day.


"Maybe you're as thick as to have missed the influence and innovation part, but yeah, the Hall does have to induct JD and Beefheart, since influence and innovation are its two standards. Try again."

First, influence and innovation aren't the only two standards. They're just the only two you care to recognize. Second, I was being super-literal with that remark. Unless you're gonna strap a bomb to yourself and interrupt the meeting saying, "Either put Joy Division and Captain Beefheart on the ballot or we all go up!", no they don't absolutely HAVE to consider them, and even then, they may choose to call your bluff. It's called free will. They can choose to not consider either band for any reason at all, even if it's for no other reason than to specifically piss you off. Third, "crappy" dance music is just your opinion. Fourth, it doesn't matter if you think it's crappy, it was still a significant facet. I don't like Contemporary Christian music, but I'm not gonna close my eyes to the fact that it's a huge part of the music industry and has been for a long time. I hate most of the synth-rock that came out of the early 80's, but I wouldn't object to Duran Duran getting in. Don't care too much for grunge of the 90's, but some of the acts in that grouping do belong. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can ignore it.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 18:41pm

If innovation (which = influence) is the "standard" then you need to explain why the following are in the Hall Of Fame:

Madonna
REM
The Ronettes
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Sex Pistols
The O'Jays
The Pretenders
U2
Bob Seger
Jackson Browne
Prince
ZZ Top
AC/DC
Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers
Aerosmith
Bonnie Raitt
Earth, Wind & Fire
James Taylor
Lovin' Spoonful
The Eagles
Fleetwood Mac
The Bee Gees
Crosby, Stills & Nash
Led Zeppelin
The Band
Elton John
Rod Stewart


Now I'm not meaning to say that I don't appreciate some or most of those people listed above in some way. But none, I mean NONE of them were responsible for inventing their respective sounds. They did not innovate anything. James Taylor wasn't the first guy to pick up an acoustic guitar and start singing. AC/DC didn't invent heavy metal.

Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,etc........................

Posted by classicrocker on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 18:52pm

"So just substitute "alive and strong" with "socially and culturally prominent and pervasive" and then respond to the points I made." - Philip

Oh, I always thought it was actual musicians who made music, when it was society and culture all along! Silly me!

"He may not have been a major factor in many bands' or solo artists' "sound," but his reach did have a fair bit of extent for its day." - Philip

You've basically admitted his influence is neglible right there.

"First, influence and innovation aren't the only two standards. They're just the only two you care to recognize." - Philip

Wrong again. OK, read this, the line at the top of EVERY artist's page:

"Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll."

So no, they aren't "my" criteria or the only ones I care to recognize.

"Unless you're gonna strap a bomb to yourself and interrupt the meeting saying, "Either put Joy Division and Captain Beefheart on the ballot or we all go up!", no they don't absolutely HAVE to consider them, and even then, they may choose to call your bluff." - Philip

You're missing the point by about ten miles. Joy Division and Captain Beefheart are two artists whose influence and innovation in rock are undeniable, so to not induct them would mean the HoF isn't meeting its own criteria.

Feel free to go to their respective pages and argue against their influence and innovation. I feel like a laugh.

"Third, "crappy" dance music is just your opinion." - Philip

Yup, great observation on your part. Scroll up and you'll see that I wasn't actually using quality as an argument against it.

"Fourth, it doesn't matter if you think it's crappy, it was still a significant facet." - Philip

And all you've done to 'prove' that point is bring up sales. Keep trying, it's just having a few years of mainstream succss doesn't equate to being musically important.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 18:59pm

"innovation (which = influence)" - classicrocker

Nope, not at all.

"If innovation (which = influence) is the "standard" then you need to explain why the following are in the Hall Of Fame:" - classicrocker

So all of a sudden I'm resposible for bad picks? I'm NOT actually a nominating commitee member, you do know....?

Artists don't have to be innovative to be in. You know, if they did, we'd have to kick out The Beatles.


BTW, R.E.M. are responsible for bringing elements of folk-rock into the post-punk mix, so yeah, they're innovative.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 19:04pm

EDIT: "folk" not "folk-rock."

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 19:08pm

Yes, musicians do make the music, but it's the culture that's the measuring stick of how strong a movement or genre of art is.

Just because an artist's sound isn't noticeable in other artists' sounds doesn't mean that the former artist wasn't influential. Chubby was influential in the songs and lyrics of songs that followed, but future artists did things other than just dance songs.

I didn't say they were YOUR criteria. I said they're not the ONLY criteria. Notice it said "Criteria include" not "Criteria are limited to," nor does it say "Criteria MUST include." Whatever helps to the perpetuation of rock'n'roll can be a criterium, including Impact.

I'm not gonna argue against Beef or Joy. I can take or leave having them in the Hall. And I didn't miss your point so much as I chose to ignore it. It's the same drum you beat all over the forum. *My* point was that any artist is fair game for inclusion or exclusion, ludicrous as some of those decisions may be.

"And all you've done to 'prove' that point is bring up sales. Keep trying, it's just having a few years of mainstream succss doesn't equate to being musically important."

And I think there you're partly wrong. Not completely, mind you, but you go beyond saying that sales aren't important to the point where I think you believe that sales are an automatic strike against an artist's worthiness for the Hall. You're focused solely on the "art" side of rock'n'roll, which isn't bad, but it's not the whole picture, and I'd argue it may not even be the majority of the picture (note I said "may not" instead of "is not" meaning it's debatable). Remember, this is The Rock And Roll Hall Of *FAME* we're talking about. It's a "Who's Who," not a "Who's That?" kind of place. Being widespread famous should be a part of the consideration, whether they get it from their music going unknown during its time, but big names later accredit them as influences; or whether their music was continually and repeatedly in your face during the artist's time of success. I wouldn't trust the average man's opinion for the judgment of musical quality, but I would at least hope that the committee would nominate acts that the average man had at least *heard* of, even if they couldn't name a single song by that artist.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 19:23pm

"Yes, musicians do make the music, but it's the culture that's the measuring stick of how strong a movement or genre of art is." - Philip

You're full of BS. What do you mean "measuring stick"? If you're that lazy as to not actually be bothered to sit down and look the history of rock music, then you shouldn't be on this site.

"Chubby was influential in the songs and lyrics of songs that followed, but future artists did things other than just dance songs." - Philip

And again, you haven't actually shown any examples to back up your point.

"Notice it said "Criteria include" not "Criteria are limited to," nor does it say "Criteria MUST include." Whatever helps to the perpetuation of rock'n'roll can be a criterium, including Impact."

Notice how nowhere in the statement does it say anything about his "cultural impact" bullsh*t that you've been rattling on about. In fact:

"Gold records, number one hits, and million sellers are really not appropriate standards for evaluation." - Terry Stewart

"*My* point was that any artist is fair game for inclusion or exclusion, ludicrous as some of those decisions may be." - Philip

So if "any" artist can get in, as you're saying -no matter what level or lack of importance they may have - then there is absolutely no reason to have a HoF.

"but you go beyond saying that sales aren't important to the point where I think you believe that sales are an automatic strike against an artist's worthiness for the Hall." - Philip

I honestly have no idea where you got this from. Your ass, maybe?

"You're focused solely on the "art" side of rock'n'roll, which isn't bad, but it's not the whole picture, and I'd argue it may not even be the majority of the picture" - Philip

Yeah, God forbid rock should ever get any treatment as an artform. What a huge mistake that would be. Naah, let's all just induct the crappy acts that MTV tells people to like.

"Remember, this is The Rock And Roll Hall Of *FAME* we're talking about." - Philip

If you want to look at it at such an incredibly basic level, then fine. But I don't agree with the name in the first place, and:

"Gold records, number one hits, and million sellers are really not appropriate standards for evaluation." - Terry Stewart

"whether they get it from their music going unknown during its time, but big names later accredit them as influences;" - Philip

Shutup about "big names." Yeah, we get the fact that you like being force-fed your music, but influencing a smaller-known band is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT to influencing a bigger-known one. Try wrapping your mind around that fact.



You're quite obviously intent on keeping this BS sals argument, so there's really no way I'm gonna convince you that sales does not = impact on music.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 19:41pm

Uh yes, I do look at the history of rock and roll. Measuring stick meaning relevance to a society. Rock'n'roll in the 50's meant widening, if not creating, the generation gap as we know it. It was incredibly relevant to a society, and the artists who made it back then were also quite relevant to their society at that time.

And I did give examples. See that list of songs I made? So you could furthermore argue that even if only for those songs, Chubby was influential to Sam Cooke (yes I know Sam came before Chubby, but that doesn't mean Sam couldn't be influenced by his contemporaries), the Marvelettes, Gary U.S. Bonds, the Four Seasons, Joey Dee And The Starliters, King Curtis, etc.

Sales (gold records) aren't appropriate standards, but that doesn't exclude them from being a part of the discussion either. And Impact is important. You've done nothing to show how it isn't other than just call it BS.

And yeah, any artist CAN get in, as long as it's been 25 years since their first release. I was being uber-literal and somewhat hyperbolic. And it's really a minor point and laughable that you keep harping on it.

As for where I got the idea, it has to do with the fact that other than New Order, I don't think I've seen you advocate for the induction of any artist that was mainstream. Well, maybe KISS, but you do it begrudgingly.

I have no problem with treating rock'n'roll as an artform. My problem is when you treat it ONLY as an artform. It was and is much more than that. I find your point-of-view to be myopic at times.

"Shutup about "big names." Yeah, we get the fact that you like being force-fed your music, but influencing a smaller-known band is ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENT to influencing a bigger-known one. Try wrapping your mind around that fact."

Make me shut up, so NYAH! Yeah, I can be as immature as you. And I disagree with both of your statements. I don't like being force-fed music: it made for a very painful experience in college radio. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna refuse what the radio has to offer either. It's there, I'm looking to absorb as much of it as I can, and that includes mainstream stuff. I go out looking for stuff, and I really treasure the obscure finds that work for me. And your other statement's not really a fact either. Influence is influence, sure, but a quantitative measurement of it is not evil, taboo, bad, or really even discouraged.

And I've said elsewhere that sales doesn't equal Impact, but I do believe it's a variable in the equation of Impact. And it's not the end of the world if I disagree with you, nor does it make me an idiot or an evil person. I'm sorry that agreeing to disagree in a civil manner is beyond your capabilities.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 20:08pm

Face it: all this "impact on society" BS is just some f*cking 'loophole' to get those way-back-when artists that you all love and go wet for whenever you hear on your classic rock radio stations.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 20:27pm

How is it BS? You really haven't answered that at all. And there are plenty of artists I like that I would not vote to put into the Hall of Fame: Herman's Hermits, Jay And The Americans, the Vogues, the Four Preps, the Association, Tom Jones, the Monkees, Village People... I like 'em, but I wouldn't put them in the Hall. And there are artists I don't care for all that much, but wouldn't object to them being in the Hall: Marvelettes, the Fifth Dimension, Junior Walker And The All-Stars, Yes. More often than not, I don't, or at least try not to, let personal taste affect my opinion of an artist's worthiness. Please take your fallacious accusations elsewhere.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 20:36pm

Besides, maybe I need to make it a TINY BIT MORE clear, but I don't care about sales EITHER WAY. There are bands with importance who sold alot of records. There are bands with importance who sold very few records. Just because you've only seen me advocate two artists with large-ish success doesn't mean I don't do so for any others.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 20:38pm

It's BS because, as I've already (sarcastically) pointed out, "society" and "culture" are not what make music, musicians are; and therefore commercial success is NOT an appropriate or correct way of measuring musical impact.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 20:42pm

And again, that is where I feel you are being myopic. Music, made by musicians, is a part of the culture, which is a part of the society. Musical impact is only one kind of impact that can be had: societal and cultural impact are both valid ways of having impact. In fact, the Hall of Fame is littered with inductees who would occasionally or frequently mix politics with music; and took up causes, exercising activism. Sales, like politics, is just another medium by which an artist can have Impact, and is not inherently wrong or inappropriate to consider. I wouldn't make it primary, but it doesn't get left at the door either.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 20:51pm

Yes, it is wrong to consider sales as a criteria because culture is not rock music, nor any form of music. They may be valid for your HoF, but I honestly am keen on the idea of rock music being remembered as a form of art.

Considering the HoF itself has already stated that it doesn't want to look at stats like sales, chart success etc., I'd say I'm in possession of the end-all in this topic.

Posted by Liam on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 20:59pm

culture is not rock music, but rock music is a part of culture. If a musical act can make ripples beyond mere cultural impact, shouldn't that be considered a good thing? And "my" HoF is the one that exists and has a museum in Cleveland. I like the idea of rock'n'roll being remembered as a form of art. I also am keen on it being remembered as something that benefitted society by reaching the people in ways that stirred them politically, taught them something new, or just made them happy. Those are all benefits.

And just because they say they don't want to look at stats doesn't mean they don't or shouldn't do it. The former is reality, and the latter is merely a plea that they don't kid themselves about the former. So no, you don't hold an end-all, but nice try in declaring your point-of-view supreme and all others worthless. It really does enhance your online persona nicely.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 21:07pm

*beyond mere musical impact, is what that second line should read. Sorry for the confusion.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 05.23.08 @ 21:08pm

Sales don't even accurately measure cultural impact. Bob Dylan never sold as much as ABBA, for example.

Posted by William on Saturday, 05.24.08 @ 03:00am

Right, and I never said it should be the most important factor, but it doesn't invalidate the role that sales plays in helping to create cultural impact.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 05.24.08 @ 03:16am

William there are always exceptions to every "rule." Like I can say that in general, tall people tend to make better basketball players - which of course is true - then you could say, yeah, but look at Mugsy Bogues (he is like 5'4"). But, the exception does not negate the generality of the "rule."

Posted by sailing on Saturday, 05.24.08 @ 08:27am

Bob Dylan has sold way more records than ABBA. C'mon now...

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 05.24.08 @ 09:08am

"Bob Dylan has sold way more records than ABBA. C'mon now..."-Joe-Skee

If by "way more" you mean "less than half as many," then yes. That's exactly right.

Posted by William on Saturday, 05.24.08 @ 16:45pm

"These issues are not black and white folks." - sailing

I was thinking about sticking a joke in here, but the risk of sounding racist is way too big.

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 05.25.08 @ 18:25pm

sailing.... I wouldn't bring up Mamma Mia if I were you. It's garnered at best mediocre respect from the theater and Broadway communities. Most jukebox musicals are disdained. The one notable exception has been Jersey Boys, about the Four Seasons, which won the Tony for Best Musical.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 05.25.08 @ 23:06pm

Why is Melanie not included? She is soo deserving of this honor!!!

Posted by mary jane on Wednesday, 06.4.08 @ 09:00am

Cyndi Lauper definitely belongs in the Hall this coming year. She was one of the most successful female acts of the 1980s. She conquered the genre of rock with a look and sound that had never been heard before.

Her attire, though thrift store and rags, defined fashion in the later years of the '80s. She even has a large following today. She's So Unusual ranked in the 500 Greatest Albums of all time in Rolling Stone, and she has been listed as an icon in the world of punk rock.

Cyn is original, and she will be inducted in the Hall sooner or later. That's just inevitable. 2009 should be her year. She defined our generation.

Posted by Brent Adams on Thursday, 06.19.08 @ 14:44pm

Rush
The Cars
Alice Cooper

Ever noticed how much Geddy Lee, Ric Ocasek and Alice Cooper look like one another? I want them inducted together.

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 06.22.08 @ 05:49am

The 2009 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

Genesis
Chicago
Kool and the Gang
The Commodores
Hall & Oates

Bernie Taupin

Posted by Roy on Monday, 06.23.08 @ 09:20am

Just got back from driving 300 miles to visit the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame & truth be told, I was disappointed. I understand the tributes to the popular legends BUT if this hall of fame has room for people no-one's ever heard of (including 1990 DJ's) why was Stevie Ray Vaughn's legendary guitar playing & blues missing?

RIP SRV - you are remembered as one of, if not the finest/greatest guitar players ever. From the looks of the posts here, you are remembered by quite a few.

Posted by Kristi on Wednesday, 06.25.08 @ 21:23pm

Kristi, SRV hasn't been eligible yet. Next year is the earliest he could possibly make it.

Posted by Lenny B on Wednesday, 06.25.08 @ 21:49pm

Lenny, Since you're in the know - how is it Pearl Jam has a display in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame if Stevie Ray Vaughn doesn't rank a spot?

Posted by Kristi on Wednesday, 06.25.08 @ 22:19pm

Pearl Jam hasn't been inducted into the HOF and won't even be eligible until 2016.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 06.25.08 @ 22:24pm

Many, many recent artists adorn the HOF walls, their belongings on display. I suppose it's necessary to have a 'popular' draw that will get people to part with $22 (each) to walk around for a few hours. That said, it would seem naive to think the recent artists already on their walls are not eventual inductees. After visiting the HOF, I tend to agree with Courtney Love's argument.

Posted by Kristi on Wednesday, 06.25.08 @ 23:34pm

What would you all think of Buddy Miles as a sideman ( i think his death should have reminded the comittee of his absence).
His work with Hendrix is probably enough to be in the hall

Posted by roméo on Friday, 06.27.08 @ 17:39pm

Stevie Ray Vaughn
The entire revitalization of the blues in the 80's started with Stevie. Would Robert Cray, Buddy Guy, Kenny Wayne Shepard, Jeff Healey, and Johnny Lang be as well known, if SRV hadn't helped to break the conventional thoughts about the blues?

Posted by Michael on Thursday, 07.10.08 @ 17:27pm

come on people.lets not fight,I think steve perry should get this award,for he has a great gift,his voice is so amazing he puts his heart into every song he does ,and I will never forget him,I sure hope he comes back to do more music,I would love to hear that amazing gift steve perry,I love you steve perry come back and do more music!you are missed!love Adriana:)

Posted by Adriana on Wednesday, 07.16.08 @ 03:24am

Tinsley Ellis is eligible this year and not on the list. He makes everyone on this years list sound like amatuers, yes even SRV

Posted by Ed on Saturday, 07.19.08 @ 09:36am

Being one of the few people on this site who's even heard of Tinsley Ellis, I have to say that making comparitive statements and trying to give credit to someone by discrediting someone else is absurd. Trying to compare great players is nearly futile because the really great ones are all unique. They've either come up with their own style or taken someone else's to a whole new level. I've played for years, and my favorites are not always who I think is best. Saying that Tinsley Ellis makes SRV sound like an "amatuer" is just a silly statement.

Now that being said, according to the criteria, why does Tinsley Ellis deserve induction into the HOF...and please try to stick to what he offers. He's a very good player, but hall of fame...I don't think so.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 07.19.08 @ 11:44am

Hey, did you hear, 14 will be inducted next year!:

The 2009 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

Yes
Jethro Tull
Deep Purple
King Crimson
Emerson, Lake and Palmer
Genesis
Chicago
Blood, Sweat & Tears
Kool & The Gang
The Commodores
Alice Cooper
Hall & Oates
KISS
Rush

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 07.22.08 @ 18:51pm

I don't think any first-year eligible bands will go in this year. Metallica already has one slot wrapped up with just 4 more left.

Posted by maplejet on Saturday, 07.26.08 @ 22:22pm

All of the following need to be inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame:

1.Stevie Ray Vaughan

2.Metallica

3.Jeff Beck

4.Judas Priest

5.Bon Jovi

6.Kiss

7.Iron MAiden

8.Alice Cooper

9.Run DMC

10.Genesis

Posted by Gunnar on Monday, 07.28.08 @ 08:28am

I predict these acts will be nominated for the 2009 induction:

The Hollies
Gram Parsons
The Stooges
Kraftwerk
Tina Turner
Chic
Beastie Boys
Metallica
Run DMC

Posted by The_Claw on Tuesday, 08.5.08 @ 05:00am

Hey Claw - if this is in fact what they present to the voting board as the list of nominees, then it is really sad. I am fine with the Stooges, Kraftwerk and Metallica, but there are a lot more worthy bands that should be on this list first. That is not to say that these bands are not worthy, although I have some issues with The Hollies, Gram Parsons, Tina Turner and Chic.
I guess I cannot get past the fact that Alice Cooper, Deep Purple, ELP, King Crimson and Cheap Trick keeping getting passed over.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 08.5.08 @ 05:37am

I tried not to base this list on personal preferences, and neither is this a list of what I think are the nine biggest snubs. I tried to base it on previous ballots, and signals we got from the nominating committee this year.

We know at least two committee members would support the nomination of The Hollies, and there also seems to be a lot of support for the induction of The Stooges. Then there are some patterns I used. About half of all the nominated acts that won't be inducted in one year, will be nominated next year. The ballot also always exists of a number of 'black acts', usually three or four. And there are always a couple of acts that never were nominated before. My lists exists of three 'black acts', two last year's nominees and four 'fresh nominees'. To be honest, I picked only three acts just because they are among the biggest snubs: Metallica, GP and Kraftwerk. But I could just as well have picked Deep Purple, Genesis, Lou Reed, Roxy Music, The Smiths, Alice Cooper etc.

Posted by The_Claw on Tuesday, 08.5.08 @ 07:33am

The Hollies
Herman's Hermits
Gram Parsons
The Stooges
Donna Summer
Chic
Afrika Bambaataa
Beastie Boys
RUN DMC

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 08.5.08 @ 09:23am

let's look at this in reality....
there are some great artists up there no doubt, but the absolute 1st one to be entered next year should be BonJovi...

love them or loathe them they sit at the top of rock's tree...they've an AMAZING track-record on the charts for a rock band and keep breaking records 25 years into their career....

if the world's No.1 concert tour cannot break into the hall of fame, I don't know who could?

their fanbase alone leaves every other artist mentioned above for dead... look at sites such as VoteNumber 1 which had JonBonJovi in the top 3 singers of all-time, Richie Sambora in the top 5 guitarists of all time (the highest of any currently active guitarists) and as a band they finished second only to Queen - and wait till BonJovi are finished like those around them on that particular list, their fanbase will have them as number1...

SRV Must also be there, the man is an influential and scarily talented legend. If you look at the influence they had on their time and the legacy they left in music then with the above two should be Paul Rogers, Cindi Lauper and Billy Bragg

Posted by A;ex on Tuesday, 08.5.08 @ 10:07am

Since everyone else is doing it, my list of 'most deserving of Hall' (in alphabetical order)

ABBA
America
The Cars
Chicago (Terry Kath years only)
Jim Croce
Doobie Brothers
ELO
Guess Who
Hollies
Rush
Steve Miller Band
Styx
War
3 Dog Night

You may commence slagging...

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 08.5.08 @ 13:57pm

Why does the rock and Roll Hall of Fame discriminate against female artists?
Melanie should have been inducted long ago and still needs to be!
Melanie is one of the top female vocalist and writers of our time. No one can surpass her songs about peace and love and her impact on society. She is still touring and was just presented with the Ambassador to Peace award in Seoul South Korea!
Melanie deserves to be inducted NOW!

Posted by mary jane on Saturday, 08.9.08 @ 05:25am

When are
Dion {run around sue ,any one seen john,wander, etc
Ricky Nelson
Ike Turner
Gee some real rockers way before the new bes..
Not thart they are not good just these cats made rock real first
Gee where is Wolfman jack ?

Posted by Mrxyz on Saturday, 08.9.08 @ 12:00pm

"Why does the rock and Roll Hall of Fame discriminate against female artists?"

They don't. They nominated three female acts (Blondie and The Pretenders included) every year for the last four years. They don't discriminate against women, they discriminate against Melanie.

Posted by The_Claw on Saturday, 08.9.08 @ 12:44pm

So "Claw " Blondie and the Pretenders are a female act huh..? I wonder what the other "GUYS" in the band think .. ?lol
I think as singer the gals are great but when your in a band you are all in the band..unless the band/musicians are back up to a lead solo act.. . That is like saying Charlie Watts is Micks drummer in the Stones...

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.9.08 @ 12:57pm

There are so many artists from the 60's, who have been ignored or overlooked by the RRHOF committee.
I am sure that many of you have never experienced the excitement and the impact on the society during those years. So matter of fact the record sales were very competive with the exception of the Beatles, the Stones and few other icons.
I think that we should be open minded with the variety of musical tastes which had some influences along with the sales and they are still with us due to radio airplay. Don't forget the 70's, too.

So bring in the Monkees(pioneer of MTV, first to use Moog on the record, four #1 albums in one year and outsold the Beatles and Stones combined in a year, unbelievable but true). How about Linda Ronstadt, Yes, Jim Croce, Neil Diamond, Deep Purple, Rush, Three Dog Night, Melaine, Turtles, Tommy James and the Shondells, Chicago, Grand Funk Railroad, Alice Cooper, Faces, Jeff Beck, Steve Miller Band, America, Moody Blues, Guess Who, Blood, Sweat and Tears? There are lots of other qualified artists in the 80's too, consider the Cars, Hall & Oates,Cheap Trick, Genesis, Foriegner.
So they deserve the credit where it's due. So can those who went into the spotlight 25 years ago, wait and let those old timers in once for all.
Don't let them be like the Ventures or Dave Clark Five who had waited so long to be inducted in RRHOF.

Posted by Bill on Sunday, 08.10.08 @ 10:38am

"So "Claw " Blondie and the Pretenders are a female act huh..? I wonder what the other "GUYS" in the band think .. ?lol
I think as singer the gals are great but when your in a band you are all in the band..unless the band/musicians are back up to a lead solo act.. . That is like saying Charlie Watts is Micks drummer in the Stones..."

Why do you think of all the "female acts" that were nominated, I specifically mentioned Blondie and The Pretenders? Not because they were perfect examples of female acts. I am aware Blondie and The Pretenders are more than just Debbie Harry and Chrissie Hynde, thank you. I mentioned them because I knew their status as a 'female act' is debatable.

By the way, I included Chic too. And that's not because I thought Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards were women, nor do I consider them to be just the backing band. ;)

Posted by The_Claw on Sunday, 08.10.08 @ 17:31pm

CLAW...
They are not a female act they are acts with females,, Was Jefferson Airplane a Female act Mamas and Papa's ,Rufas ,Ike and Tina ... on and on... ? maybe the Females what it to be but a band is ALL ,including the drummer LOL Solo acts are just that Male or Female.....
peace and understand through music
MRXYZ

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 08.10.08 @ 18:13pm

Sigh. This is a stupid discussion. You're not telling me something I don't know. Yes, I'd probably count Jefferson Airplane, The Mamas and the Papas, RufUs and Ike & Tina Turner if they were nominated in the last four years. I'd even count Fleetwood Mac. And yes, I am aware that all these groups are more than just the (female) lead singer(s). But tell me, mrxyz, if you wanted to prove that the Hall doesn't discriminate against women, would you only count the girl groups and the female solo artists, or would you count the bands with female lead singers as well?

Posted by The_Claw on Monday, 08.11.08 @ 03:17am

I think the real problem when it comes to the (supposed) discrimination against female acts is that there haven't been that many to nominate, much less seriously consider. If you remove the acts that had ladies front & center in otherwise all-male bands, remove Motown acts already inducted, and look at what's left, you're talking slim pickings in terms of what's up for nomination now.

I am assuming you are speaking about all-female rock acts here. With the exception of the band Fanny in the early 70's & the Runaways a few yrs. down the line, there hasn't been much to put in until a couple yrs. ago. It's only been in the past five? six? maybe seven yrs that acts like Pat Benatar & the Go-Go's were even eligible. If by 2010 or 2011 the amount of ladies present in the Hall has stayed the same, if you want to fire away about sexism, be my guest.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 08.11.08 @ 06:12am

I can think of two artists: Suzi Quatro and of course The Runaways which you mentioned. I choose Suzi Q. because she was a major influence on The Runaways.

And The Runaways to me should be a shoe-in. There influence is immense even if their records never took hold on the American charts.

Go-Go's, Bangles, Donna's, etc. It was the Runaways who opened the possibility of a hard rocking band comprised solely of women who didn't just look sweet and pretty on stage. And they didn't sing just love songs! And Joan and Lita certainly did move forward and have successful solo careers. Lita can play with the boys anyday.

If keeping them out is just another "boys club only" decision, then f*ck Wenner and his piss boys.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.11.08 @ 06:58am

Where is it reported that there will be 14 inductees this year? That seems a bit much, no?

Posted by JR on Tuesday, 08.12.08 @ 23:51pm

I would like to say that i love your site www.futurerockhall.com a lot
now.. back to the post lol
I cant say that im 100% with what you typed up... care to explain deeper?

Posted by christian on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 14:42pm

Hopefully, they will induct SRV in 2009, he has my vote...

And The Smiths as well!

Posted by LAM on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 20:24pm

I do not believe this

Posted by fornetti on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 20:53pm

Via my talk backs with Liam on this page, I've composed a revised, ordered list of every major act eligible that I would definitely want in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The first 25ish are egregious omissions, the next 25 are ones I would still champion. I won't lose sleep over 50+ not getting in but I would like them inside rather than out.

You'll also notice some common themes in the list. I've tried to group a few genres or similar artists together as it seemed logical. I can certainly say that the three rap acts I listed are more important than Metallica but I also don't think any of them are as in need of induction as any of the top ten. That's just one example but you should also notice mainstream acts with minor influence being listed lower, and minor acts with a few key moments also dwelling near the bottom of the list.

The Queue

1. Brian Eno
2. The Stooges
3. Kraftwerk
4. Joy Division
5. Sonic Youth
6. The Cure
7. The Smiths
8. Nick Drake
9. T. Rex
10. The Replacements

11. Depeche Mode
12. Beastie Boys
13. Run DMC
14. Afrika Bambaataa
15. Metallica
16. Hüsker Dü
17. The Fall
18. Roxy Music
19. The Jam
20. New Order

21. Gang Of Four
22. Black Flag
23. Wire
24. John Coltrane
25. King Crimson
26. Tom Waits
27. The Marvelettes
28. Genesis
29. Love
30. Talk Talk

31. The Buzzcocks
32. The Cars
33. Television
34. Iron Maiden
35. ABBA
36. Devo
37. The Monkees
38. Captain Beefheart
39. Can
40. X

41. Mission Of Burma
42. Cocteau Twins
43. Harry Nillson
44. Nico
45. MC5
46. XTC
47. Echo and the Bunnymen
48. Pulp
49. Alice Cooper
50. Lou Reed

51. The B-52s
52. Judas Priest
53. The Modern Lovers
54. The Minutemen
55. Meat Puppets
56. Big Star
57. Jimmy Cliff
58. The Specials
59. Randy Newman
60. Violent Femmes

61. The Crystals/Darlene Love
62. The Zombies
63. Tim Buckley
64. Stevie Ray Vaughn

My hope for this year is to have at least three of my top 20 acts receive the gold medal of honor, possibly four if they'd chuck Eno into the non-performer category. I had Leonard Cohen in my Top Five last year, so that was a plus, but with Sonic Youth, Metallica, Afrika Bambaataa and Beastie Boys all getting the shaft, I actually managed to add more to my list than I removed (two - Cohen & Madonna).

Posted by Casper on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 22:24pm

My hope for this year is to have at least three of my top 20 acts receive the gold medal of honor, possibly four if they'd chuck Eno into the non-performer category. I had Leonard Cohen in my Top Five last year, so that was a plus, but with Sonic Youth, Metallica, Afrika Bambaataa and Beastie Boys all getting the shaft, I actually managed to add more to my list than I removed (two - Cohen & Madonna).

Posted by Casper on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 22:24pm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leave your comment


Love Mr Cohen but your list is boring well 81% of it is..

Posted by tinman on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 22:38pm

Casper - no one can say that you don't love the music you love. But your list has Alice Cooper way too low and you have completely omitted Deep Purple, NY Dolls and ELP. And except for the Stooges and Joy Division, their isn't one band on your list that is more deserving then them. And that is being objective.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 03:40am

The Queue

1. Brian Eno (hopefully one day)
2. The Stooges (induct now)
3. Kraftwerk (a few bands before them, but soon)
4. Joy Division (Within the next 3 years I hope)
5. Sonic Youth (within the next 5-7 years)
6. The Cure (See Joy Division)
7. The Smiths (See Joy Division)
8. Nick Drake (too many ahead of him)
9. T. Rex (Next 3-5 years)
10. The Replacements (Great pick - soon I hope)

11. Depeche Mode (5-7 years)
12. Beastie Boys (5-7 years)
13. Run DMC (4-6 years)
14. Afrika Bambaataa (no)
15. Metallica (Not before Deep Purple)
16. Hüsker Dü (Great band, 7-10 years)
17. The Fall (Not for decades)
18. Roxy Music (very soon I hope)
19. The Jam (See Joy Division)
20. New Order (if J.D. gets in, then they can wait)

21. Gang Of Four (5-7 years)
22. Black Flag (5-7 years)
23. Wire (A long long time)
24. John Coltrane (Love Coltrane - no comments)
25. King Crimson (yes please and soon)
26. Tom Waits (why is he so revered?)
27. The Marvelettes (no)
28. Genesis (Which version)
29. Love (not feeling it)
30. Talk Talk (good band, but I don't see it)

31. The Buzzcocks (yes please, 4-6 yrs)
32. The Cars (see Buzzcocks)
33. Television (Yes - now is not soon enough)
34. Iron Maiden (A few others get in first, 4-6)
35. ABBA (A case can be made - no comment)
36. Devo (10-12 years)
37. The Monkees (yes please - now)
38. Captain Beefheart (no comment)
39. Can (Who cares)
40. X (yes please, very soon I hope)

41. Mission Of Burma (no)
42. Cocteau Twins (no - never & I don't care who or what they influenced)
43. Harry Nillson (Good pick, but I doubt it)
44. Nico (not in a million years)
45. MC5 (Too many bands ahead of them)
46. XTC (soon I hope, 3-5)
47. Echo and the Bunnymen (see XTC)
48. Pulp (not feeling it)
49. Alice Cooper (10 years ago)
50. Lou Reed (too many before his solo career)

51. The B-52s ( 3-5 )
52. Judas Priest (3-5 )
53. The Modern Lovers (no)
54. The Minutemen (no)
55. Meat Puppets (no)
56. Big Star (no)
57. Jimmy Cliff (no comment)
58. The Specials (5-7)
59. Randy Newman (see ABBA)
60. Violent Femmes (5-7)

61. The Crystals/Darlene Love (maybe)
62. The Zombies (Great band - no)
63. Tim Buckley (no comment -but good pick)
64. Stevie Ray Vaughn ((3-5)

Very heavy on the indie/post-punk/underground scenes. But if you collaborated with Liam on this, you lose points.

That is my somewhat objective opinion which a dash of subjectivity thrown in. All in all, a decent list; but your dislike for Harder music shows through.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 05:13am

Swap the Cure and the Smiths. I just see the latter as just generally being more influential.

Beefheart is way, way too low on there. The Fall and Tom Waits (well, his Swordfishtrombones and beyond period) wouldn't exist without the guy. I think "Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band" would be a more suitable induction.

No Yes? There was me thinking you were into bloated, chop-heavy prog-pop... Also, where's Faust? Where's the Residents? I'm sure there's more but my mind isn't fully functioning right now.

Roxy Music are too high. So are the Jam. So are the Monkees. So are Genesis...

I KNEW you would put Stevie Ray right at the bottom, but I'm disappointed that "Vaughn" was replaced with "Yawn" right here.

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 05:49am

That last "was" should be "wasn't." F*ck.

Who cares abou Can, blah-blah-blah? How's about Bowie, Eno, PiL, The Fall, RHCP, The Flaming Lips, Mars Volta, Talk Talk, Sonic Youth and Radiohead?

No to the Minutemen? Have you even listened to Double Nickels on the Dime?

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 06:03am

I was just giving my humble opinion. It is bad enough that it seems that the Hall wants to induct the whole 60s decade; we don't need to put every indie/underground band who released a great album or two in there as well.

There are a dozen bands from the Hard Rock/Heavy Metal, Prog Rock, Glam and Arena rock genres that Casper did not list that clearly need to go in before many of these indie/underground bands. Dameon listed several. Not everyone is going to agree on who should and shouldn't be in.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 07:15am

If you class Can in with "every indie/underground band who released a great album or two," I kinda stop taking your opinion.

Of course, feel free to advocate the induction of such dilapidated, dated, nowhere-near-as-important-as-you-think heavy metal acts such as Deep Purple over one of the most important Kraut/Progressive/Psychedelic rock groups of all time, but I'm not going to take you very seriously, and I may just accuse you of favouritism.

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 08:44am

Hmm - influence to Kraut Rock vs influence to Hard Rock/Heavy Metal.

Who am I to question what you think is important. It is just my opinion. You have yours (blah-blah-blah).

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 09:10am

"Roxy Music are too high. So are the Jam. So are the Monkees. So are Genesis..."

I can lower the last two but the first two are really that important in my books. Roxy Music bewilderingly managed to end up on the Immortals list which is a major coup given that they're hardly known outside of the UK. That says something. Then there's The Jam which have one of the highest percentages on this site. I can agree with that.

As for it being a collaboration with Liam, he helped come up with a lot of names I had missed. I'd like to see Liam or the rest of you put together your own lists, perhaps we could even combine them and get an overall rank.

Liam, thank god Kat was voted out. Sara to win!

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 17:14pm

Casper, any so called list of potential inductees isn't worth whatever it's written on if Todd Rundgren isn't on it. As Kit wrote over on the Todd board he could be in as a producer alone. His own work was cutting edge as anybody from the late 60s on through the 80s and beyond. Just listen to Hermit Of Mink Hollow on which he played every instrument and did just about everything else including taking the picture of himself on the cover. Todd's talented!

Posted by classicrocker on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 20:24pm

His case will be reviewed shortly.

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 22:20pm

Casper -

You're asking for a full-on list of people I believe should be in the Hall? O.K. While I will write this out as you did, in blocks of 10's, in no way should this be seen as a solid order of preference. I'd be here all day fighting myself over whether I got it right in my own mind. It is a loose preference that drives this ranking:

1. Link Wray
2. The Stooges
3. Def Leppard
4. Rush
5. Deep Purple
6. Metallica
7. Genesis
8. T-Rex
9. Steve Miller
10. Motley Crue

11. The Cars
12. R. Erickson/13th Floor Elevators
13. ZZ Top
14. Psychedelic Furs
15. Bon Jovi
16. Run DMC
17. Chicago
18. Love
19. Journey
20. Ronnie James Dio

21. The Smiths
22. The Hollies
23. Yes
24. Judas Priest
25. The Monkees
26. MC5
27. Alice Cooper
28. Iron Maiden
29. Dick Dale
30. Tears for Fears

31. Kraftwerk
32. Billy Idol
33. Sonic Youth
34. King Crimson
35. Ozzy Osbourne (solo - not sure on this one -
is it Sabbath + Ozzy they
inducted?)
36. Beastie Boys
37. Gang of Four
38. Violent Femmes
39. The Sweet
40. Pat Boone (cause his metal days should never
be forgotten)

and as a special * - Von Hayes

Von Hayes, for those who do not know, was an outfielder from 1981 to 1992 I believe, w/Cleveland, Philadelphia, and California. His best years were in Philly, and as a natural Phillies fan, I flipped out when I read that a N.J. band called Von Hayes was out there. Head to espn.com and check out the great list of potential baseball/rock bands in the comments section - my personal faves are the Manny Trios (real life Manny Trillo), Oil Can & the Boyds (real-life Oil Can Boyd), and the Sixto Lezcanos.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 09.3.08 @ 05:50am

Forgot to mention that for all of you interested in the Von Hayes/Baseball bands, when you get to the espn baseball page, look for the rotating highlighted picture - it will show up under the heading "Page 2".

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 09.3.08 @ 06:01am

Cheesecrop-

ZZ Top are in the RRHoF already

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Wednesday, 09.3.08 @ 07:14am

I will do the same here as I did with Casper's list.

1. Link Wray (thinking out of the box)
2. The Stooges (Can we do this now)
3. Def Leppard (Dameon's boys - 5-7 years)
4. Rush (They seem to be controversial here)
5. Deep Purple (Now)
6. Metallica (A/S/A/P, but not if it keeps Purple, Stooges and Alice out))
7. Genesis (I am torn on this)
8. T-Rex (2-4)
9. Steve Miller (I am torn on this) one day I hope
10. Motley Crue (7-9)

11. The Cars (5-7)
12. R. Erickson/13th Floor Elevators (no comment)
13. ZZ Top (They were inducted in 2004)
14. Psychedelic Furs ( 7-9)
15. Bon Jovi (never)
16. Run DMC (4-6)
17. Chicago (I am torn on this)
18. Love (thinking out of the box again)
19. Journey ( 8-10)
20. Ronnie James Dio (only as a member of Rainbow)

21. The Smiths (3 years)
22. The Hollies ( I don't see the hoopla over the Hollies - sorry)
23. Yes (Not until after King Crimson and ELP)
24. Judas Priest (3-5)
25. The Monkees (now)
26. MC5 (big band - others before them)
27. Alice Cooper (10 years ago)
28. Iron Maiden (see Judas Priest)
29. Dick Dale (No Comments)
30. Tears for Fears (long time from now)

31. Kraftwerk (very soon)
32. Billy Idol (not so soon)
33. Sonic Youth (soon)
34. King Crimson (yes please)
35. Ozzy Osbourne (solo - not sure on this one -
is it Sabbath + Ozzy they
inducted?) No - he is eligible as a solo artist and if he is inducted again, it better be with the Blizzard of OZ because Randy Rhoades needs to be there as well)
36. Beastie Boys (Not before Run DMC)
37. Gang of Four (5-7)
38. Violent Femmes (5-7)
39. The Sweet (I love this band - but they are not getting in)
40. Pat Boone (If he gets in, I will be very sad)

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Wednesday, 09.3.08 @ 07:36am

Casper - I was looking at the NY Dolls board and noticed a comment of yours from a while back. It was your opinion that the Dolls did not deserve the honor and that their influence was minimal at best. I was just wondering how you came to this opinion? I would think that when members of the Clash, Pistols, Smiths and other Punk/Alternative/Post-punk bands clearly state that it was the NY Dolls music and early tour of London that changed their approach to music and performance, that this is a clear sign of major influence. Steve Jones admitted years later that all he did was rip off Johnny Thunders guitar style and technique. And 5 years later, with the coming of Hanoi Rocks and Motley Crue, the Dolls influence reared its ugly head again. It doesn't matter if you like the music or not, the influence is their. I am not the biggest fan of Joy Division, but I certainly see the importance of them. They were a special band.

So I can say is put the "NY Dolls" on your lists and into the Hall.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 06:16am

I hope Run DMC and New Edition get in 2009 after reading everyones comments its obvious there are some flaws in there selection process.The next 10 years a lot of my favorite groups(Most R&B and Hip-Hop)will be elegible.I hope some one put a Hip-Hop Hall Of Fame together.Its Obvious most of you don't want any Hip Hop in the hall(except Eminem or the Beasty Boys).Here's my short list of artist that should be in Barry White,Hall&Oates,Patti Labelle,Luther Vandross,Janet Jackson,Yes Band,Pet Shop Boys,Teddy Riley(Influence)and Marley Marl(Influence).

Posted by Leon on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 14:52pm

Leon -

I'm not necessarily sold on the argument that most of us don't want any hip-hop in the Rock hall. I can only speak for myself here, but as it stands I wouldn't mind certain Hip-hop acts making the Hall. The operative word is certain. Look at it this way. You say you'd like a hip-hop Hall. Cool. I assume that this hall would mirror the rock hall in how it inducts people in different categories. If there was an "early influence" section, I assume it would have at least a few rock acts in there. Certainly Aerosmith would be in under these conditions, as we both know. Recent postings on this site of a rock nature include the case of Dick Dale. Would you necessarily put him into a hip-hop hall of fame as an early influence of some kind? I think not. Such is the same case w/the rock hall, only here it's obviously in reverse. If a hip-hop act has an honest-to-goodness tangible impact on ROCK, by all means they should get in. I don't believe in just sticking any act in willy-nilly w/out some genuine basis.

Some who have had either a functioning relationship w/the rock medium, or who are clearly heavily indebted to rock in their work:

Run DMC, The Fat Boys, Public Enemy, Tone Loc, Beastie Boys, P Diddy, Cypress Hill, Outkast, Gnarls Barkley

Some who may appear to have a connection w/rock but who in reality have little to go on, and should not be in there:

LL Cool J, NWA, Snoop Dogg, 2Pac, Notorious B.I.G., Eminem

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 16:49pm

As far as hip-hop/rap goes, there hasn't been a lot out there that has made me go "WOW", and I'm a big R&B fan from way back. With all the sampling and lack of imagination I see (and hear), I'd rather see some classic R&B artists who have a strong connection to rock get in. I don't know that it will happen, though. The HOF seems very misguided on who the true innovators and influences are. I liked Grandmaster Flash, but they were by no means the originals. I'm thinking along the lines of Kurtis Blow, who was the first rapper signed to a major label, or even Gil Scott-Heron, whose material in my opinion was a precursor to rap.

A Rap/Hip-Hop Hall of Fame...now there's an idea!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 20:33pm

For those of you not familiar, check out "The Breaks" by Kurtis Blow, and "The Bottle" and 'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" by Gil Scott-Heron...to name just a few!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 21:00pm

I believe that Metallica should inducted, they have done so much for rock/ metal. And have laid the ground work for many others, and helped make the style popular. They should be inducted even before Pantera, and Slayer. I'm not saying that they arn't deserving, but Metallica has done so much more.

Posted by Kenneth on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 11:43am

Leon Russell, Chicago, Carole King......SO deserve to be in!!! Why do politices determine who gets in???? I am a Charter Mamber of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. When does my vote count???

Posted by cathy on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 18:52pm

This is a joke, the whole museum is a joke.
The fact that bands like Chicago, Cheep Trick, The Mothers of Invention, Blood,Sweat & Tears, Yes, ABBA, Alice Cooper and Roxy Music (just to name a few) are not ALREADY in the Hall of Fame is rediculous! This museum is about influences in rock music and those who made amazing contributions to it. These groups of musicians have given so much and have influenced so many people! I've been to the museum a good number of times, and I've thought alot of it was "pop culture clutter", had very little to do with the actual roots, contributions of great musicians.

Weak choices for this year are weak.

Posted by Becca on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 19:44pm

The Committee should be committed. Their bias against an entire genre of rock and roll is an embarrassment. Thus, no Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Moody Blues, Roxy Music, Genesis, Deep Purple and Rush to name the most obvious. It's absurd to think that Bon Jovi could go in before any of these bands.

From those newly eligible, it's gotta be at least Stevie Ray Vaughan or the whole thing's a sham.

Posted by Dan on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 14:39pm

It's not only an embarrasment Dan, it's a joke

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 15:29pm

The Committee should be committed. Their bias against an entire genre of rock and roll is an embarrassment. Thus, no Yes, ELP, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Moody Blues, Roxy Music, Genesis, Deep Purple and Rush to name the most obvious. It's absurd to think that Bon Jovi could go in before any of these bands.

From those newly eligible, it's gotta be at least Stevie Ray Vaughan or the whole thing's a sham.

Posted by Dan on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 14:39pm
--------------------------------------------------

I am wondering, why is it so absurd that Bon Jovi may get in before those bands you've mentioned? I understand it if you don't care for them, but if you are willing to consider them, then why the issue?

Let's do a hypothetical game for a second. Let's say two bands debut w/in five yrs. of each other. Both are aimed at primarily the same market, but both approach different segments of the market. Both are incredibly influential & innovative, both actually end up w/ the same amount of #1 albums (5 each). If both of them were outside the Hall looking in, which one would you say deserves to get in first, Band A or Band B?

In fact, this is not hypothetical (Band A happens to be Van Halen, Band B happens to be Metallica, who just picked up their 5th #1). Now I know VH is in there already, but if you had to choose between these 2, who would it be (providing you could judge in a neutral manner?

Jovi has had more success than some of those acts, and less success than others. Does it matter if they came later down the line?

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 17:50pm

Jovi has had more success than some of those acts, and less success than others. Does it matter if they came later down the line? (CC)

Yeah, it does my friend because most of those band have met one or both of the I & I criteria. Bon Jovi has satisfied neither. Now Bon Jovi may have helped perpetuate the artform with their success in the minds of some. But the fact is that they were basically a 3rd generation 80's band. Def Leppard, Motley Crue, Ratt, Dokken and a few others had already achieved major success by the time Runaway was released. So if you look at the musical landscape of the time, if Bon Jovi did not exist, the Pop Metal/Hair Band genre would have still flourished.

At least this is my opinion. But I do respect yours. At least I am not talking about Coven.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:39pm

Jovi has had more success than some of those acts, and less success than others. Does it matter if they came later down the line? (CC)

Yeah, it does my friend because most of those band have met one or both of the I & I criteria. Bon Jovi has satisfied neither. Now Bon Jovi may have helped perpetuate the artform with their success in the minds of some. But the fact is that they were basically a 3rd generation 80's band. Def Leppard, Motley Crue, Ratt, Dokken and a few others had already achieved major success by the time Runaway was released. So if you look at the musical landscape of the time, if Bon Jovi did not exist, the Pop Metal/Hair Band genre would have still flourished.

At least this is my opinion. But I do respect yours. At least I am not talking about Coven.


Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:39pm
--------------------------------------------------

Agree w/you completely as to how the pop-metal scene played out. I guess I made a mistake regarding just what I was getting at. So many people have argued in favor of bands just for being older than other acts. In all honesty Bon Jovi had little to do w/Rush, Genesis, etc.

Guess what I'm saying is this: you already know I advocate Link Wray for the Hall, and that Wray was around long before the majority of the bands that get serious consideration on this site. Take an act like King Crimson, who fits the I & I mode the same way that Wray does. Do you think I could advocate Wray getting in first simply because he started a decade before them? I've seen so many arguments that have this concept tossed in. I guess I simply don't want to see artists punished unjustly due to age here. I am aware of the Dave Clark Five scenario, but that may be a one-in-a-million situation (regrettable as it was).

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 04:30am

CC - I think the problem here is that the Hall now only inducts 5 in a year and that is causing a major backlog. And when choosing the 5, those member of the nominating committee who reign supreme get to politically push in and keep out whom they want.

I do happen to believe it is fist come, first serve. As far as Link Wray is concerned; I have to admit I am not that big a fan so I really cannot comment on the impact of Link Wray.

As for Bon Jovi - their induction would be just wrong at this point if they get in before Purple, Cheap Trick and the other earlier hard rock and Pop Metal bands that paved the way for them. Personally, if any bands from BJ's genre is inducted, Def Leppard needs to be the first.

I would like to see the following older performers inducted before we start catching up to the mid -80's groups.

Stooges
NY Dolls
Deep Purple
Alice Cooper
King Crimson
ELP
Joy Division
The Cure
XTC
X
Cheap Trick
T. Rex
I know there are a few more, but I can't think of them right now.

Let's get some of these clear cut omissions resolved, then I will be somewhat happy.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 10:20am

agreed on stooges alice cooper deep purple and the cure, also would like to see rush and yes with these bands before anyone else

Posted by argh on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:29pm

as for this group i could see srv, slayer, and pantera

Posted by argh on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:30pm

What I can't understand is how "Chic" even gets nominated. Five times now, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, and now 2009. But yet a songwriter like Bill Withers gets over-looked year after year! He got a nomination in 1996 and hasn't got another since! How one can recognize mediocrity, and dismiss talent is beyond me!!! Withers has one of the best soul voices of all-time. He's songs are timeless, "Lean On Me" everyone can relate to that song. Don't forget "Ain't No Sunshine" "Use Me" "Lovely Day" "Just The Two Of Us", and one of the greatest songs you've never heard "Tender Things". I had to google Chic, because I forget who the hell they were! After sampling some of their music I had a laugh, but then I got angry! If Chic gets inducteed this year, they will have gotten in ahead of Alice Cooper, Heart, Kiss, Rush, Peter Gabriel, The Cars, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Phil Collins, and America to name a few.....yes and also Bill Withers!

Posted by Ryan on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 21:27pm

The Rock Hall of Fame has no credibility. Every year is a joke. Nobody cares.

Posted by Doug on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 21:55pm

Jethro Tull is one of the greatest bands in the history of music. While Aqualung is a decent album, one need only look at "Minstrel in the Gallery," "Stand Up," "Benefit," "Heavy Horses," "Thick As a Brick," and others to see what an amazing songwriter Ian Anderson truly is. Why oh why have they been overlooked? Ian has a flute in the Hall; why not a permanent spot recognizing his amazing contributions?

Posted by Aaron on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 22:04pm

It's difficult to remain completely unbiased by the music of today when it comes to people's ideas of who gets inducted. It's a no-brainer to me that Metallica will get inducted but do they deserve to be before their influences? Just because they're still producing #1 albums doesn't mean they're a first year of eligibility shoe-in. So many of the bands mentioned above deserve to be in before they should be. The funny thing is that they're probably my all-time fav band and I still don't think they should be in there - yet.

On another note, the RHOF seems so keen on inducting different genres instead of focusing on the one that they claim is the root of their existence. Chic is disco. How can they even be considered before Alice Cooper, Rush, Chicago and the countless other ROCK acts. Other genres might have a place in the hall but as a separate vote. If the RHOF is going to limit the amount of acts they induct then they need to create a new catgory, similar to EARLY INFLUENCE, that focuses on these pseudo-rock genres.

Finally, how can Neil Diamond not be inducted as an early influence? It's mind boggling to me.

Posted by Scott on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 01:27am

alot of these bands shouldnt even be on the list. i just dont get why they dont have a pop and rap hof. imo the only other genres that should get a pass is jazz/blues and individuals for their contributions, otherwise, rock in all its forms, metal, classic, alternative, punk, and all of the early innovators like the killer

Posted by argh on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 15:10pm

comments for this pack of eligibles for the first time:

1. The Smiths. I suspected they wouldn't get in this year, but maybe the Hall is trying to get long deserving bands like the Stooges out of the way before we get to what everyone will be expecting - The Smiths and The Cure getting in the same year (although the latter has been eligible for quite some time).

2. Run-DMC. Actually nominated this year, and a definite possibility to get in on first nom.

3. Pulp. One of my favorite bands of all time. Essentially the band revolved around vocalist Jarvis Cocker and keyboardist Candida Doyle (the only constant members for most of the band's career) and are virtually unheard of in the US. No chance, sadly.

4. Bon Jovi. Ugh. They'll probably get in before Rush does, sadly.

5. SRV. Probably will get in soon.

Posted by RyanG on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 21:46pm

I remember reading the critera of what is Rock-n-Roll in 1986 by the founders of the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame and it is a combination of R&B ,Blues Jazz,Gospel,Folk and Country and it's various subgenres that have evolved into this thing called Rock-N-Roll from 1954- present day. Rock was something created by white radio programmers and advertisers after The Beatles broke up as a way to sell major concert tickets and music to stoned and drunk white american surburban and rural hippie teenagers in the 70's with disposable income. The music is the same I,IV,V blues scale just like Prog,Metal,or Alternative the only difference is they took some classical cadenzas and Jazz improv or used their suburban hangups or demons for inspiration.

Disco, Rap , Funk is a subgenre of R&B, Jazz and Blues and is part of WHAT IS CALLED ROCK-N-ROLL. I am sick and tired of people who are so-called experts on the genre telling fans of these genres that we aren't worthy for the "ROCK-N- HALL OF FAME" that is the name of the museuem in Cleveland not the "WHITEBOY 70'S ROCK HALL OF FAME". Chic, War, Run- DMC, Mandrill, Mother's Finest, The Time, Luther Vandross,Betty Davis, Quincy Jones, Kool Herc and Afrika Bambbatta are even more influential on music's past, present and future than classic rock dinosaurs like Rush, Jethro Tull and Deep Purple and Yes who have only released 3 great albums a piece in their a long careers because their influence is limited to their genres and era they played in.

I think it's time to stop inducting artists more than once, if Tony Dungy goes in the Hall OF Fame in Football it will be as a coach not a player, Jeff Beck is already in the HOF as a memeber of the Yardbirds should'nt that take care of his solo career. If the Hall is going to be taken seriously then it should stand on it's own two feet like other Halls of Fame it should stop inducting American classic rock bands and acts who don't deserve to be there (Billy Joel, Jackson Browne, Lynrd Skynrd)and stick by the rules of what Rock-N-Roll truly is.

Or... you fans of KISS, Purple, Jethro Tull, Yes can form your own "WHITEBOY ROCK HALL OF FAME" and I think it will be a big moneymaker in a big stadium. Oh, there already is one such award, it's called the VH-1'S Rock Honors and they get a big gaudy ring that looks like a paperweight.

Posted by Edan on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 00:59am

Is the "critera" <sic> of what is Rock-n-Roll in 1986 still what Rock is today? Is it allowed to evolve?

Are you saying that Rock N Roll is black music and that white people need not apply?

Posted by interviewer on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 11:21am

No, I am saying I am sick and tired of the "70'S CLASSIC ROCK WHITEBOY POSSE" who think that "Rock -n-Roll " began with the Beatles, Woodstock and Haight- Asbury and no other music is even Rock-n-Roll. Well here is the stylisitc orgins of Rock-n-roll according to Websters is

1. Gospel
2. Folk
3. Blues (especially Jump Blues)
4. Swing
5. Country Music
6. Boogie Woogie
7. Rhythm and Blues

or check out wikipedia for the intellectually challenged

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll

No where did I read that it started on Ed Sullivan in 1964, and 30 years of hearing the WHITEBOY ROCK POSSE!!! try to deny or eliminate the music's black orgins with the exception of Hendrix (the good nigra) who cut his teeth playing R&B/Soul with Ike and Tina, The Isley Brothers,Sam Cooke, and Little Richard. The music is diverse because it is so American and it includes all styles of music since the late 40's. There are other subgenres of Rock-n-Roll that follows those seven styles that aren't guitar-based but swing, groove, and make you dance like Disco, Funk and Rap Music.

And for my saying that only Black Artists should go into the Hall, I never said that, I am tired of former Hippies and white guys who think they know what the music is dictating what "ROCK" is. and If you want my opinion on who should be in the Hall here is my top 5 wish list in so-called RAWKKK !!!! genres


Alternative
Joy Divison
Modern Lovers
Cocteau Twins
Can/Neu!
Suicide

Punk
Black Flag
Bad Brains
The Damned
X
Televison

Glam
Roxy Music
T-Rex
New York Dolls
Alice Cooper
Spiders From Mars

Metal
Iron Maiden
Motorhead
Judas Priest
Guns-n-Roses
King's X

Posted by Edan on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 03:58am

Why has this conversation turned to skin color lately?

Fact: Rock and Roll is the offspring of the Blues. And I don't know one true RnR fan who doesn't know that. And if you don't, then I suggest you go buy some cd's by Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, etc., etc., etc.

That is a pretty interesting list Edan:

I might add Richard Hell in the punk category; I am not sure which category you would put the Runaways, but they need to be there as well.

I love your pick of Kings X. It will never happen, but I love.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 05:06am

I might add Richard Hell in the punk category
Posted by blah-blah-blah

Now there's a guy who's style of dress alone helped shape the early punk look as it came to be known.
The Sex Pistols were mimicking his haircut,safety pin held together ragamuffin look.
He also cut some decent albums.
My favorite being the Blank Generation album.
Good backing band in Marc Bell who later became Marky Ramone and great unsung ( on a large scale) guitaist Robert Quine.

Posted by Gary James CA on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 09:04am

Edan,

I would love to hear what "The rules of Rock and Roll truly are"

SpaceTrucker

"They call me the working man, I guess thats what I am"

Rush

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 11:12am

Edan -

I'll jump into the fray here, if only to ask a question about "raawwkk", as you so blithely put it (cool). You cut off w/Hendrix, but I take it you'd bring in Sly/Funkadelic, Earth, Wind, & Fire, Kool & the Gang, etc. I also trust you'd make room for perhaps Love and Shuggie Otis. How about whitey-boy "raawwkk" outside the mid-70's? Excluding the obvious (Jackson, Prince), have you followed any African-American rockers outside of disco/hip-hop? Where do you place them amongst the R&B and rock universe?

Some faves:

Bad Brains / Living Colour / P.M. Dawn / Fishbone

Ones I've tried to track down:

Sound Barrier / 24-7 Spyz / Follow For Now

Also, how do you rate Andre 3000's recent moves toward rock & blues, & Gnarls Barkley?

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 17:03pm

(QUOTE)
I'll jump into the fray here, if only to ask a question about "raawwkk", as you so blithely put it (cool). You cut off w/Hendrix, but I take it you'd bring in Sly/Funkadelic, Earth, Wind, & Fire, Kool & the Gang, etc. I also trust you'd make room for perhaps Love and Shuggie Otis. How about whitey-boy "raawwkk" outside the mid-70's? Excluding the obvious (Jackson, Prince), have you followed any African-American rockers outside of disco/hip-hop? Where do you place them amongst the R&B and rock universe?"

I grew up listening to Funkadelic, Kool and The Gang, EWF and I like bands like Love, The Chambers Brothers, Shuggie Otis, but what about Betty Davis, Mother's Finest, Joan Armatrading, Obisia, Mandrill, The Busboys, Xavion. And in the modern era of Black Musicians who don't do Disco/R&B/Rap, I love Fishbone, Living Colour, Follow for Now, 24-7 Spyz, The Veldt, Eye and I, Subject to Change, Micheal Hill's Blues Mob, Total Esclipse, Whole Wheat, Pure Hell etc..

Andre 3000's foray into rock and blues not bad but Funkadelic's circa "Cosmic Slop - Let's take It to the Stage albums 73-75" and the Isleys 3*3 -Go For Your Guns alums 73-77 have already treaded what Andre is doing with better albums and songs.

Gnarls Barkley, very good American alternative band, you heard one you heard them all.

Posted by Edan on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 21:13pm

I grew up listening to Funkadelic, Kool and The Gang, EWF and I like bands like Love, The Chambers Brothers, Shuggie Otis, but what about Betty Davis, Mother's Finest, Joan Armatrading, Obisia, Mandrill
Posted by Edan

All great in their own way and favorites of mine as well.
"Mother's Finest", damn now there's a band that was one of the first to mix "heavy" rock with funk and soul to great effect.
The predate The Red Hot Chilli Peppers,Faith No More all of em.
(Much better imo too)
Sadly they'll never get into the RRHOF.

Rolling Stone is shit imo. also.
Just felt like saying it out loud here's hoping Jann Wenner gets a lot of hate mail.

Posted by Gary James CA on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 21:43pm

where is def leppard! should have been nominated this year...and the year before that and that one...etc! .......such a shame and loss to the rock n roll hof

Posted by kimberly on Friday, 11.28.08 @ 10:31am

Run-DMC
Pantera
the smiths
Anthrax
All should get in.Anthrax wont but I like them and im not totally saying they should get in.
Run-DMC is far from my favorite or the best but there good and will get in.
I personally like mobb deep more than run-dmc but run should get in undoubtedly and mobb deep shouldnt get in.I like mobb deep but there definintly not hall of fame worthy thats how you have to kinda pick it whether you love them or not are is a certain group hall of fame good.

Posted by Chris on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 21:42pm

I can't believe Tears For Fears gets in the Rock Hall ahead of us. Although "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" is a sick song.

Cheers
VON

myspace.com/vonhayes09

Posted by Von Hayes on Wednesday, 12.3.08 @ 13:05pm

Anthrax- helped popularize rap-rock
Stevie Ray- major contributor to the blues revival
Bon Jovi- one of the biggest metal bands of the 80s

Posted by on Tuesday, 02.24.09 @ 16:58pm

Pantera
Queensryche
Ratt
Stevie Ray
Bon Jovi
Anthrax

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, 02.24.09 @ 17:00pm

I have been wondering,,
Why aren't the "FUNK BROTHERS" and The "WRECKING CREW" not in???
Between these 2 groups of musician. I would guess 65% of the top 10 hits for 20 or more years came from these cats..
YES TO FUNK AND WRECKING>>!!!

Posted by mrxyz on Wednesday, 03.4.09 @ 13:46pm

mrxyz, I completely agree that the Wrecking Crew and Funk Bros. should be inducted. And perhaps its most appropriate to induct them as Sidemen, because there real talent is not just their technical musical virtuosity, but rather their ability to contribute just the right licks to a song to make it perfect. Some of the Funk Bros. and Wrecking Crew are already induct:

Funk Bros. already inducted - Benny Benjamin, James Jamerson
Wrecking Crew already inducted - Hal Blaine, Earl Palmer, James Burton, Steve Douglas

There are obviously many more in each session group that need to be inducted. A few that I would inducted as sidemen right off the bat are Glen Campbell, Leon Russell, and Dr. John

Posted by Jonny on Wednesday, 03.4.09 @ 23:27pm

Anthrax
Dio
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Slayer
Pantera
The Smiths

Posted by S.R on Wednesday, 03.18.09 @ 17:37pm

I think it's a slap in the face that the MOODY BLUES ar not in the rock hall. You have inducted
the likes of a child molester like michal jackson
all this hip hop rap artist which at some time they should be let in but take care of the ones
that started it all THE DAVE CLARK FIVE IS THERE THE ANIMALS THE WHO LETS GET THE BLUES IN THERE
they were the second wave from England make it right they deserve to be there

Posted by richard travers on Tuesday, 05.19.09 @ 16:48pm

Who put Alice Cooper under glam rock? He experimented with many rock genres, but for the most part he was a heavy metal artist. The things he wore were more for his stage show and shock value than trying to look glamorous.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 05.20.09 @ 20:46pm

Alice was one of the Glam Rock firsts. Womens clothing, Makeup, and I dont talk about the makeup he wears now, before then, he wore blue eyeshadow, the whole 9 yards, Drag rock and roll indeed.. Infact I believe it was Creem Mag, that said Alice Cooper and his Band were the ugliest women. I personally do not think he got into metal until the mid-80's with the Raise your Fist and yell album and Constrictor.. took it from there. The Albums Pretties for you, Easy Action, Love it to death, Killer, Schools out, Billion Dollar Babies.. are glam classics.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 12:42pm

The albums you mentions are classics, but not glam rock classics. "School's Out", "No More Mr. Nice Guy", "Billion Dollar Babies" and alot of his other work have the heavy instrumentals and vocals that define heavy metal. To be completely honest, his '80s albums like Constrictor were more pop-metal oriented and not nearly as heavy as his earlier albums(even though I still love some of those albums). Also, the things he wore were not ment to be all pretty and fabulous like the British glam bands like Slade, Sweet, Mott the Hoople, T.Rex, etc.(I love most of those bands, but Cooper was not one of them). The stage shows especially were ready opposite the glam rock scene. Glam rock was upbeat and Cooper was rough around the edges. If Alice Cooper is glam rock than Guns N' Roses are hair metal, which in my opinion neither are. The only way Alice can be misinterpreted as a glam rock act is that he and his band appeared on an old 1988 collection called Glam Rock and on it he didn't sound like any of those acts. Alice Cooper made lots of great music in several other genres, but still for the most part Alice was a heavy metal pioneer and one of the most important artists in that genre's history.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 13:22pm

Well its pretty obvious you know nothing of his early years, when was was specifically called " GLAM " and FYI Before the whole black makeup thing, he dressed the same as the mentioned bands you named. Glitter, blue eyeshadow, lipstick, shiny clothes.. were part of his act. His elaborate stage show was nothing in his early days per say. Easy Action, Pretties for you, Easy Action and Killer..Just a Man wearing womens clothes and makeup fronting a band wearing the same.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 13:28pm

Here is a question - can you define the difference between Glam, Hard Rock and Metal? IMO, it is all interwoven.

The term Glam was used originally because they didn't know what else to call it; men wearing women's make-up. If you have seen the promo clip for "Eighteen", you can see that the band was going for a sickly look. Alice always says that he was influenced by the look of Bette Davis in the movie, "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane". Check out the movie and you will see what I mean.

Many of the genre names were created by what the band did on stage and not how the music sounded; example's Hair Metal and Shoegaze. It had nothing to do with musical styling. I think that by trying to pigeon-hole a band into some kind of sub-genre, you lose the overall impact on music itself.

As for the Alice Cooper Band; I don't care what category you put them in; just put them into the Hall where they belong.

Posted by Dameon666 on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 13:44pm

You made reference that to some of the albums like the Schools Out and Billion Dollar Babies are glam. The tours for both were dirty and grittier than anything glam, the lyrics not glam, and the music did not sound like British glam rock. Are you actually going to say that you would put "Billion Dollar Babies" into the same category as "Little Willy"(don't get me wrong when I say that because I like Sweet). His music didn't sound like any of those bands.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 14:10pm

I agree. Alice Cooper should have been inducted by now and he is always in my top 5 for artist who I want to see inducted and have left an undeniable mark on rock music.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 14:14pm

I agree, its all combined together. But dude man, you can not escape the fact that early Alice was glam. Alice's early shows leading up to the Schools out Tour was pure glam rock. You Can youtube his shows from circa 69 to 71 which are very glam. and do not have the theatric stage show.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 16:32pm

The Alice Cooper Band was never pure glam at any stage in their career. They were always a little darker and more vaudvillian. AC's music never sounded like T-Rex, Sweet, Bowie, etc. DudeMan meakes an excellent point.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 16:43pm

Exactly Dameon, it's all about the sound. And A.R., I'm gald you realize that the School's Out album and tour are not glam, but I still don't think his early years were glam rock. Yes, he and the band did wear make-up and everything that came with it, yet like you said "ugliest women". It wasn't meant to be frilly and nice like the glam rock acts and the sound wasn't like any of those bands.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 18:08pm

Glam, Hard Rock, & Metal are all the same?

I'm going to say not so fast. First & foremost, the issue of volume. I know this doesn't relate specifically to Alice Cooper, but consider two other acts from around Cooper's big years in the early 70's, namely Bowie & Sabbath. Are you saying that they are the equivalent of each other in terms of volume? The thing that made Sabbath (and others) stand out from the hard rock pack was the volume.

In addition, glam always seemed to be diff. in terms of how it looked across the pond in England than here. Over there, the domination was by Bowie, Mott the Hoople, Bolan/T-Rex, G. Glitter. Al very effeminate and theatrical in a slightly campy value. Over here it's more Cooper, Kiss, louder in volume, more physical, and far more masculine.

I think there is a difference (mind you, that's only one person's opinion).

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 18:09pm

I never saw Alice or KISS as Glam bands. It was labeled as Shock Rock if I remember correctly. The NY Dolls were more Glam than anything else in the States, but their music had more of an edge to it. Which is probably why they were so influential on the Punk scene. There was a band called Angel who shared the same record label as KISS. They was an Americcan Glam band that moved along the same lines as T-Rex and Mott.

Glam was somewhat revived with some of the Hair Bands - Poison being the biggest of them.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 18:32pm

I agreed that Cooper should be inducted, I never agreed that the genres were the same, but one genre can be influenced by another. Example: Kiss a heavy metal band mainly influenced by glam rock bands like Slade(they said "Rock and Roll All Night" was inspired by "Cum on Feel the Noize"). I personally think Cooper has most in common with heavy metal than the other two, but I'm sure for a man that has experimented so much he has influenced the other two.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 18:47pm

Kiss were influneced by Alice Cooper too.. A Glam Alice.. I believe it was Gene who said that when he saw Alice perform I'm Eighteen, In his makeup, and got such a impact and reaction that he did.. he knew thats what he wanted to do. The American Glam Rock bands had a different sound to those in England.. Comparing Alice Cooper's sound to Bowie for example.. Alice's is a bit " ruff " Alice to T-rex, again Alice is " ruff ". Compairing British bands to American bands is kinda pointless, because they are going to have a differnt sound and take on the genre's and Image.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 19:33pm

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-11/1227628/Alice001_small.jpg

A Picture of Alice circa 69/70.. in his glam days.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 19:35pm

Different genres bleed into others and no one can dispute that point.

As for me and having grown up with a giant Alice Cooper poster on my wall while I practiced 18 on my Goya guitar, I can say that I never once considered the Alice Cooper Band as glam. Glam is short for Glamorous and Alice was never glamorous.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 20:25pm

That pic is pretty funny and I can't deny it's the glam look. Still does the music correspond to the style. I understand where you are coming from with the different sound from different continents, but there is still a huge diference in the music. Even onthe early albums. "Levity Ball" was one of the heaviest songs of 1969. Also, Kiss was definately influenced by Alice, yet I would say "I'm Eighteen" the song has more to do with proto-punk than glam because of the theme, length, and the fact that Johnny Rotten used it to get into the Sex Pistols.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 20:28pm

Also A.R. look at the cover of Love it to Death for few minutes. Now does that really look glam or is it something darker? What's pretty about it? Absoulutely nothing in my opinion.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 21:16pm

Deffinatly, looking at the album cover, Minus the drunken Alice.. Alice is dressed in a spagetti strap tank as well as another member..( Womens Clothing)and Im pretty sure if it were not in black and white then you would be able to see the makeup. Around the time of that album, Bowie was wearing dress's on stage.. And there was NOTHING to classify Bowie's sound at the time. Until the buildup to Ziggy, Which I am sure thats where he was heading, being as smart as he is. I remember seeing Alice perform I'm Eighteen in the getup from the picure I posted. Punk Rock's roots come from Glam Rock.. well I will say MOST of the roots.. If you take Levity Ball and Compare it to Ziggy Stardust or many of the " Glam " phase.. it deffinatly fits in. Even Looking at the back photo of the album.. Very Glam.. The Alice Cooper Band are pretty much wearing what the members of Bowie's band were wearing at the time of Ziggy if not before.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 05.21.09 @ 22:12pm

A.R. - If you check just about every music source, you will not see Glam as one of the genres associated with A.C. I like to use AMG as a source for all these music. Even Wiki doesn't list glam for Alice. He was vaudeville and shock. Just because you wear make-up on your face and glittery clothes doesn't mean that you are glam. Glam was also an attitude; kind of like Liberace of the 70's.

There is a huge difference between T-Rex, Sweet and Bowie vs. Alice. Check out the covers for ANGEL. Now they were glam.

FYI - Bowie never wore a dress during the Ziggy days - he wore short kimonos on stage.

A.R. - were you there in the late 60's, early 70's when the Alice Cooper Band broke? I was and had the pleasure of seeing the great AC Band at least a half dozen times. They were not glam in the manner of which glam is defined as a musical genre.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 05.22.09 @ 05:33am

Check this out:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1qc6v_new-york-dolls-jet-boy-live-ogwt-19_music


Put the f'n NY Dolls in already.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 05.22.09 @ 07:24am

I never said that Bowie wore dresses for Ziggy. Around the time of Alice's love it to death, was " The Man Who Sold the World" which is when Bowie wore dresses, The next album.. Hunky Dory, started opening the doors to introduce " Ziggy Stardust." Wiki does list Alice as Glam " the then glam band Alice Cooper," From the Coven entry. There was Nothing Vaudville or shocking about those stage shows. And the Deffination of Glam Rock on Wiki say Alice Cooper in the list of bands it names.
And FYI. Angel was a good band IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq9bEzADxyk

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 05.22.09 @ 10:55am

A,R, - nice chatting with you. Always good to find someone who actually appreciates Angel.

As far as Alice, I guess we all have opinions on the subject. But he was never glam!

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 05.22.09 @ 11:01am

Its deff. based on opinions, I see his early stuff as glam. but after that.. metal.. in a sense.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 05.22.09 @ 12:12pm

In my opinion if you look at the cover of Love it to Death there's nothing glam and I feel it's metal. The image isn't pretty, it's rough and dirty and he was singing and the band were playing about alienation and not about glam subjects. Still we could keep at this for a long time and it's clear A.R. that you and me are not going to change our opinions, so I'm going to try and end it with this. Not sure if you have seen this yet, but it's one of the greatest performances in rock.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HHEUyu9lpIE

Powerful isn't it. And I looked up Angel. I think they had a good song with "Tower" and it sounds like progressive-glam rock if they was such a genre.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 05.22.09 @ 13:04pm

Oh yea I have seen that, I have Almost all of the Beat Club preformace sets.. great collection btw. Comparing it to the yr before in 71. here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oFsvQ8FyBU

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 05.22.09 @ 15:07pm

ehhh of this year? I'd say...

Bon Jovi
Dio
The Smiths
Stevie Ray Vaughn

yeah, a bit of an odd bunch, i'd say.

Posted by Steve Z on Monday, 06.1.09 @ 23:15pm

Bon Jovi
Cyndi Lauper
Pantera
Paul Rodgers
Pulp
Queensrÿche
Slayer
The Smiths
Stevie Ray Vaughan

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 07.9.09 @ 15:45pm

Paul Rodgers needs to get in with Free or Bad Company. Not solo. SRV is almost certain. Bon Jovi will probably get in whether people like it or not (kind of a U2 story here)

Posted by Keebord on Thursday, 07.9.09 @ 15:48pm

you are telling me rush and deep purple arent in the hall of fame?!?!?! oh they just happen to have 2 of the best drummers on earth in their bands.(someone try to argue that). ritchie blackmore makes his guitar melt for deep purple. rush has sooo many brilliant, well put together, difficult songs. my mind is blown that they are not in. i'm actually pissed. and to think, i was just arguing that coldplay shouldnt make it. imagine this scenario... it's coldplay or rush? it's coldplay or deep purple? get real!!! poor neil young

Posted by charlie on Monday, 11.9.09 @ 10:02am