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Oct 2008

Is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Museum ugly?

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Is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ugly?

Forbes Magazine thinks so. They recently named the Cleveland landmark the #2 ugliest building in the world. Oddly enough, the UK Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is theoretically slated to open in the #1 ugliest building in the world, the Millennium Dome in London.

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Are rock and roll museums and good architecture mutually exclusive? No, we think Forbes is just looking for some easy publicity by putting together a controversial list. We're surprised they didn't go for the trifecta and add Frank Gehry's Experience Music Project to the list too.

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The Beastie Boys don't need the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

The Beastie Boys were nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame last year, in their first eligible year, but didn't receive enough votes to get in. Does this bother Mike D? Not at all:
As much as the Beasties want to be part of people's reasons to get out and vote next month, [Michael] Diamond says they're not as concerned about another vote: whether or not the group gets inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The Beasties were nominated last year but not inducted; this year, they didn't even get a nomination.

As if to prove that all of their politicking isn't just an attempt to increase their stature and legitimacy, the Beasties think they're better off not getting the Rock Hall nod.

"We didn't realize we were nominated at first, and then we thought it was kind of funny," says Diamond. "Then, when we didn't get in, we thought, 'This is for the best.' No disrespect, but I think we like being against all that. When you get down to it, we're a hardcore band and a hip-hop band, and we don't need to be part of all that."

We'll see if the Beastie Boys will still be "against all that" (like the Sex Pistols) when they inevitably get inducted some day.

Thanks, David.

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Does Jeff Beck deserve to be inducted?

Our friends over at A List of Things Thrown Together Five Minutes Ago, famous for their Keltner analysis of artists to determine their worthiness for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, have some thoughts on Jeff Beck's 2009 nomination, and why he shouldn't be inducted:
  • [Jeff Beck] clearly inspired Nigel Tufnel's haircut and wardrobe, and possibly Tufnel's childish petulance, in Spinal Tap.
  • [Beck] was unable to create a hit single in two albums with a young Rod Stewart (though he and Stewart much later had a hit with a bastardization of the Impressions' sublime "People Get Ready").
  • Jointly responsible for revitalizing the bloated charity benefit when he, Page, Clapton, Stewart, and Ron Wood staged the Rock for ARMS (Action for Research into Multiple Sclerosis) concert to benefit Ronnie Lane, which in turn prompted a delusional Neil Schon to muse that the 1980s equivalent of Clapton/Page/Beck was Schon/Santana/Van Halen.
  • Contributed to annoying pomp-rock fetishization of "Greensleeves," the sixteenth-century version of "Hey Ya."
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Rolling Stone to add new "Influences" feature

Rolling Stone has unveiled a new feature in its latest issue called "Influences," where a current artist explains what music inspired them.

Ryan Adams is the first artist featured, and he lists a quite a variety of his influences: Black Flag, The Strokes, Emmylou Harris, Sonic Youth, Nas, Jerry Garcia, Hüsker Dü, and Mariah Carey.

We'll try to keep an eye on this regular feature and take note of what is one of the more difficult Hall of Fame criteria to measure.

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Using the Billboard Hot 100 All-Time Top Artists as a Predictor for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame or: Why the Charts Don't Matter

As a part of its 50th anniversary this year, Billboard put together a list of the Hot 100's top 100 artists of all-time (well, 1958 through today). As opposed to Rolling Stone's and VH1's lists of the all-time greats, which polled groups of artists, Billboard uses their singles charts to generate their list. The results certainly show the most popular artists from the last 50 years, but are not very indicative of Rock and Roll Hall of Famers (no Hendrix, Dylan, The Who, The Police, U2, etc.). Of the 100 artists listed below, 40 are Hall of Famers. Of the 60 who are not in, 46 are eligible and have never reached final ballot for induction.

Looking down the list at the artists who aren't eligible yet (indicated with an asterisk), there really aren't any slam dunks for induction, although a strong case could be made for a few of them. If ranking high on this list were important to the Rock Hall, then Janet Jackson (the highest ranking eligible artist) should have at least received some serious consideration by the Nominating Committee, but she has not. Clearly the Rock Hall is looking for other credentials in their Hall of Famers besides having a successful singles career.

As far as using this list as prediction tool, we wouldn't recommend it. It's unlikely that over the next 20 years that any more than a handful of the non-Hall of Famers listed below will be inducted.

The complete list follows, with links to the non-Hall of Famers:

  1. The Beatles
  2. Madonna
  3. Elton John
  4. Elvis Presley
  5. Stevie Wonder
  6. Mariah Carey *
  7. Janet Jackson
  8. Michael Jackson
  9. Whitney Houston *
  10. The Rolling Stones
  11. Paul McCartney/Wings
  12. Bee Gees
  13. Chicago
  14. The Supremes
  15. Daryl Hall & John Oates
  16. Prince
  17. Rod Stewart
  18. Olivia Newton-John
  19. Aretha Franklin
  20. Marvin Gaye
  21. Usher *
  22. Phil Collins
  23. Billy Joel
  24. Donna Summer
  25. Diana Ross
  26. Frankie Valli & The Four Seasons
  27. The Temptations
  28. The Beach Boys
  29. Lionel Richie
  30. Neil Diamond
  31. Carpenters
  32. Boyz II Men *
  33. The Jackson 5/The Jacksons
  34. Connie Francis
  35. Brenda Lee
  36. Barbra Streisand
  37. Kenny Rogers
  38. Bryan Adams
  39. Cher
  40. George Michael *
  41. Bobby Vinton
  42. John Mellencamp
  43. Three Dog Night
  44. Huey Lewis & The News
  45. Gloria Estefan/Miami Sound Machine *
  46. Bon Jovi
  47. Ray Charles
  48. Chubby Checker
  49. Foreigner
  50. Kool & The Gang
  51. Ricky Nelson
  52. Duran Duran
  53. Commodores
  54. Eagles
  55. Paul Anka
  56. TLC *
  57. Barry Manilow
  58. Dionne Warwick
  59. Gladys Knight & The Pips
  60. Heart
  61. The Everly Brothers
  62. R. Kelly *
  63. Bobby Darin
  64. James Brown
  65. Paula Abdul *
  66. Richard Marx *
  67. Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship/Starship
  68. Destiny's Child *
  69. Linda Ronstadt
  70. Celine Dion *
  71. Smokey Robinson & The Miracles
  72. Bob Seger & The Silver Bullet Band
  73. Fleetwood Mac
  74. Bruce Springsteen
  75. The Pointer Sisters
  76. John Denver
  77. Four Tops
  78. Tony Orlando & Dawn
  79. The 5th Dimension
  80. Alicia Keys *
  81. Captain & Tennille
  82. Andy Gibb
  83. Air Supply
  84. Nelly *
  85. Roy Orbison
  86. The Spinners
  87. Queen
  88. 50 Cent *
  89. Dion
  90. Aerosmith
  91. Billy Ocean
  92. Tommy James
  93. Earth, Wind & Fire
  94. Brook Benton
  95. Michael Bolton
  96. Styx
  97. Toni Braxton *
  98. Neil Sedaka
  99. Herman's Hermits
  100. Simon & Garfunkel

* = not yet eligible for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

So, for example, if you're arguing that Neil Diamond should be inducted based on the number of hits he has had, you need to be prepared to induct everyone with a higher position on this list. If you can't do that, then it's unwise to use Billboard chart success as a sole reason for induction.

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Using Blender's Greatest 100 American Albums of All-Time as a Predictor for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Blender recently came up with a list of the 100 greatest American albums of all-time. Clearly there are a number of problems with the list (such as using greatest hits albums, the absence of Daydream Nation, listing Canadians such as Neil Young and Joni Mitchell, nothing listed from this decade, etc.), but any ranking such as this will never please everyone.

As far as using the list as a predictor for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, there are 45 artists who are Hall of Famers and 41 artists listed who are not. Of the non-Hall of Famers, only the Beastie Boys and Nirvana have two albums listed, and both are almost sure to be inducted in the future.

Other artists who are likely to be inducted after they become eligible are Guns N' Roses, Pearl Jam, Public Enemy, Beck and Jane's Addiction. Some of the artists who might be on the bubble are Modern Lovers, the Minutemen, Hole, Mary J. Blige and Pavement.

Some of the most popular snubbed artists are represented by Randy Newman, Kiss, Gram Parsons, Willie Nelson and The Replacements.

There are obviously a number of hip-hop albums listed, and most of those artists listed would seem to have a good chance at future induction.

The full list is below:

  1. Madonna - The Immaculate Collection (Sire, 1990)
  2. Beastie Boys - Licensed to Ill (Def Jams, 1986)
  3. Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited (Columbia, 1965)
  4. Stevie Wonder - Innervisions (Tamla Motown, 1973)
  5. Guns N' Roses - Appetite for Destruction (Geffen, 1987)
  6. Ramones - Ramones (Sire, 1976)
  7. Blondie - Parallel Lines (Chrysalis, 1978)
  8. Chuck Berry - The Great Twenty-Eight (Chess, 1982)
  9. Nirvana - Nevermind (DGC, 1991)
  10. Joni Mitchell - Blue (Reprise, 1971)
  11. Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back (Def Jams, 1988)
  12. Metallica - Metallica (Elektra, 1991)
  13. Michael Jackson - Off the Wall (Epic, 1979)
  14. Beach Boys - Pet Sounds (Capitol, 1966)
  15. Marvin Gaye - Let's Get It On (Tamla, 1973)
  16. Ray Charles - Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music (Rhino, 1962)
  17. The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico (Verve, 1967)
  18. Prince and the Revolution - Purple Rain (Warner Bros., 1984)
  19. Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps (Reprise, 1979)
  20. James Brown - Sex Machine (King, 1970)
  21. Bob Dylan - Blonde on Blonde (Columbia, 1966)
  22. Robert Johnson - King of the Delta Blues Singers (Columbia, 1966)
  23. R.E.M. - Murmur (IRS, 1983)
  24. Parliament - Mothership Connection (Casablanca, 1975)
  25. Notorious B.I.G. - Life After Death (Bad Boy/Arista, 1997)
  26. Van Halen - Van Halen (Warner Bros., 1978)
  27. Al Green - Call Me (Hi, 1973)
  28. Aerosmith - Rocks (Columbia, 1976)
  29. Beck - Odelay (DGC, 1996)
  30. Little Richard - Grooviest 17 Original Hits! (Specialty, 1959)
  31. Louis Armstrong - The Complete Hot Five and Hot Seven Recordings (Columbia Legacy, 2000)
  32. Curtis Mayfield - Superfly (Curtom, 1972)
  33. Hank Williams - 40 Greatest Hits (Mercury, 1978)
  34. Steely Dan - Katy Lied (MCA, 1975)
  35. The B-52's - The B-52's (Warner Bros., 1979)
  36. Chic - Risqué (Atlantic, 1979)
  37. Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique (Capitol, 1989)
  38. Aretha Franklin - I Never Loved a Man the Way I Love You (Atlantic, 1967)
  39. Elvis Presley - The Sun Sessions (RCA/BMG, 1976)
  40. Hole - Live Through This (DGC, 1994)
  41. Jimi Hendrix - Electric Ladyland (Reprise, 1968)
  42. Patti Smith - Horses (Arista, 1975)
  43. Sly & the Family Stone - There's a Riot Goin' On (Epic, 1971)
  44. Dr. Dre - The Chronic (Death Row, 1992)
  45. Pearl Jam - VS. (Epic, 1993)
  46. Run-DMC - Raising Hell (Profile, 1986)
  47. Phil Spector - Back to Mono (1958–69) (ABKCO, 1991)
  48. Miles Davis - Kind of Blue (Columbia, 1959)
  49. Eminem - The Slim Shady LP (Interscope, 1999)
  50. Kiss - Destroyer (Casablanca, 1976)
  51. Joni Mitchell - Court and Spark (Asylum, 1974)
  52. Randy Newman - 12 Songs (Reprise, 1970)
  53. A Tribe Called Quest - The Low End Theory (Jive, 1991)
  54. Frank Sinatra - In the Wee Small Hours (Capitol, 1955)
  55. Bob Dylan - The Basement Tapes (Columbia, 1975)
  56. Rage Against the Machine - Evil Empire E(PIC, 1996)
  57. Mary J. Blige - My Life (MCA, 1994)
  58. Grateful Dead - American Beauty (Warner Bros., 1970)
  59. Wu-Tang Clan - Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers) (Loud/RCA, 1993)
  60. Paul Simon - Graceland (Warner Bros., 1986)
  61. The Coasters - 50 Coastin' Classics (Rhino, 1992)
  62. Bruce Springsteen - Darkness on the Edge of Town (Columbia, 1978)
  63. Johnny Cash - At Folsom Prison (Columbia, 1968)
  64. Gram Parsons - Grievous Angel (Reprise, 1974)
  65. Billie Holiday - Lady in Satin (Columbia, 1958)
  66. Modern Lovers - Modern Lovers (Berserkley, 1976)
  67. Pavement - Slanted and Enchanted (Matador, 1992)
  68. TLC - Crazysexycool (Laface, 1994)
  69. Lynyrd Skynyrd - (Pronounced Leh-nerd Skin-nerd) (MCA, 1973)
  70. Prince - Sign "O" the Times (Paisley Park, 1987)
  71. L.L. Cool J - Radio (Def Jam, 1985)
  72. Carpenters - The Singles 1969–1981 (A&M, 2000)
  73. Pixies - Surfer Rosa (4AD, 1988)
  74. Aretha Franklin - Lady Soul (Atlantic, 1968)
  75. Lauryn Hill - The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (Columbia, 1998)
  76. Muddy Waters - At Newport 1960 (Chess, 1960)
  77. Jane's Addiction - Nothing's Shocking (Warner Bros., 1998)
  78. Elvis Presley - From Elvis in Memphis (RCA, 1969)
  79. Woody Guthrie - Dustbowl Ballads (Camden, 1964)
  80. Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral (Nothing/Interscope, 1994)
  81. Various Artists - Nuggets: 1965–1968 (Elektra, 1972)
  82. De La Soul - 3 Feet High and Rising (Tommy Boy, 1989)
  83. The Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime (SST, 1984)
  84. Buddy Holly - Greatest Hits (MCA, 1995)
  85. Willie Nelson - Red Headed Stranger (Columbia, 1975)
  86. Neil Young - After the Gold Rush (Reprise, 1970)
  87. R.E.M. - Automatic for the People (Warner Bros., 1992)
  88. DJ Shadow - Endtroducing… (Mo'wax/FFRR, 1996)
  89. Talking Heads - Remain in Light (Sire, 1980)
  90. Weezer - Weezer (Geffen, 1994)
  91. Eagles - Hotel California (Asylum, 1975)
  92. Lucinda Williams - Lucinda Williams (Rough Trade, 1988)
  93. Tori Amos - Under the Pink (Atlantic, 1994)
  94. Nirvana - In Utero (DGC, 1993)
  95. Harry Nilsson - Nilsson Schmilsson (RCA, 1971)
  96. Kid Rock - Devil Without a Cause (Top Dog/Lava/Atlantic, 1998)
  97. The Doors - The Doors (Elektra, 1967)
  98. The Replacements - Let It Be (Twin Tone, 1984)
  99. Stevie Wonder - Fulfillingness' First Finale (Tamla, 1974)
  100. Otis Redding - Otis Blue — Otis Redding Sings Soul (Atlantic, 1965)

Other than Sonic Youth, who do you think are the worst omissions? Smashing Pumpkins? Wilco? Soundgarden? Red Hot Chili Peppers? The Flaming Lips? The White Stripes? Devo? Let us know in the comments.

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Future Rock Hall now on Facebook

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Daryl Hall doesn't care about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

hall and oates

Daryl Hall recently sat down for an interview with the UK magazine, Record Collector. Naturally, the topic of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame came up:

Question:  It's puzzling why Hall & Oates are not in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.

Daryl Hall:  Who cares about the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame? They're f-ing dinosaurs too.  Maybe we'll get in and maybe we won't.  It depends on who's running it, once these old fools get out there with their old agenda.  If you said The Ramones were the greatest band in the world, you can't possibly let us into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame.

Hall & Oates have been eligible for eleven years and they have never been seriously considered by the Nominating Committee. So it's good that Daryl Hall isn't bitter about the snub.

Update: John Oates was also asked why he thought Hall & Oates weren't in the Rock Hall yet:

"There is a lot of politics involved," Oates said. "There are a lot of personalities involved. I personally feel we deserve it and that goes without saying. But we're not in a position to dictate that kind of thing.

"You know, Daryl and I were voted into the American Songwriters Hall of Fame about four years ago and we were also won the BMI Icon Award (on May 20, 2008, as part of the 56th annual Pop Awards), both of which are awards for songwriting. And for us, personally, I find it satisfying to be in that category and to be among the people in the Songwriters Hall of Fame.

"For me, it's all about the songs and all about the songwriting and that's how we started and I think that's essence of what Daryl and I do individually and collectively, so I'm proud of that. If the day comes and we get voted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, that will be amazing; I'll be there with bells on. But until that happens I won't lose any sleep over it."Thanks, Tom.

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Using VH1's Top 100 Artists of All-Time as a Predictor for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Now that Rolling Stone's list of 100 Immortals has been thoroughly parsed, here is another "greatest of all-time" list to chew on.

Back in 1998, VH1 asked 600 musicians to list what they felt were the greatest artists of all-time. As you might expect, the list included many artists who were already in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame at the time, but it also includes a whopping 26 artists who weren't in the Hall, but have subsequently been inducted.

There are only twelve artists from the list who are not in the Rock Hall: Nirvana, Peter Gabriel, Sting, Kiss, Stevie Ray Vaughan, John Coltrane, Tina Turner, Devo, Iggy Pop, T. Rex, Carole King and Tom Waits. (Sting, Tina Turner and Carole King are already Hall of Famers, but not as solo performers.) So, when the list was created, 62 of the 100 artists were already Hall of Famers, and of the 38 that weren't, 68% were inducted within ten years. That's a pretty good track record.

We would love to see a new poll of musicians which would rank the top artists since 1980, and see how well that would predict future Hall of Famers.

Here is the complete list:

  1. The Beatles
  2. The Rolling Stones
  3. Jimi Hendrix
  4. Led Zeppelin
  5. Bob Dylan
  6. James Brown
  7. David Bowie
  8. Elvis Presley
  9. The Who
  10. The Police *
  11. Stevie Wonder
  12. Ray Charles
  13. The Beach Boys
  14. Marvin Gaye
  15. Eric Clapton *
  16. John Lennon
  17. Elton John
  18. Prince *
  19. Pink Floyd
  20. The Doors
  21. Aretha Franklin
  22. Fleetwood Mac
  23. The Eagles
  24. Bob Marley
  25. Van Morrison
  26. Chuck Berry
  27. Bruce Springsteen *
  28. Sly & the Family Stone
  29. U2 *
  30. Neil Young
  31. The Clash *
  32. Joni Mitchell
  33. Queen *
  34. Buddy Holly
  35. Otis Redding
  36. Little Richard
  37. Al Green
  38. Elvis Costello *
  39. Miles Davis *
  40. Michael Jackson *
  41. Janis Joplin
  42. Nirvana #
  43. Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers *
  44. The Jackson Five
  45. Crosby, Stills & Nash
  46. The Sex Pistols *
  47. Creedence Clearwater Revival
  48. Van Halen *
  49. Roy Orbison
  50. R.E.M. *
  51. B.B. King
  52. Cream
  53. Peter Gabriel #
  54. The Grateful Dead
  55. The Byrds
  56. The Kinks
  57. Steely Dan *
  58. Sam Cooke
  59. Bo Diddley
  60. Earth, Wind & Fire *
  61. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles
  62. Paul McCartney *
  63. Sting ##
  64. Frank Zappa
  65. James Taylor *
  66. Talking Heads *
  67. Kiss #
  68. The Allman Brothers
  69. Pretenders *
  70. Stevie Ray Vaughan #
  71. Rod Stewart
  72. Simon & Garfunkel
  73. Muddy Waters
  74. The Velvet Underground
  75. Curtis Mayfield
  76. The Bee Gees
  77. John Coltrane #
  78. Billy Joel *
  79. Aerosmith *
  80. Tina Turner ##
  81. The Band
  82. Devo #
  83. Iggy Pop #
  84. T. Rex #
  85. Carole King ##
  86. Madonna *
  87. Santana
  88. Ramones *
  89. Johnny Cash
  90. Tom Waits #
  91. Gladys Knight & the Pips
  92. The Temptations
  93. The Four Tops
  94. Diana Ross & the Supremes
  95. Robert Johnson
  96. Lynyrd Skynyrd *
  97. Fats Domino
  98. Traffic
  99. Parliament/Funkadelic
  100. Paul Simon *

* Inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame after 1998
# Still not a Hall of Famer; Nirvana is the only artist listed who is not yet eligible because of the 25 year rule
## A Hall of Famer, but not as a solo performer

Update: This list is now next to the "Immortals" list too.

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