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Jun 2008

Seymour Stein is a "doo-wop fanatic" -- Should there be term limits for Nominating Committee members?

Longtime Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee member, Seymour Stein, described himself in 2001 as a "doo-wop fanatic," who was working hard to get the artists from his youth fully represented in the Hall of Fame.
Stein, an avowed "doo-wop fanatic" who identifies heavily with the music of his youth, feels like there's "quite a bit of catch-up to do." He cites the Hollies, Brenda Lee, Conway Twitty, Gene Pitney, Percy Sledge, Chuck Willis and panoply of doo-wop acts such as the Five Satins ("In the Still of the Night") and the Penguins ("Earth Angel") as acts that should be full-fledged inductees. "I don't want to forget artists from the '50 and '60s, but not at the expense of worthwhile artists from the '70s," he said. "I don't want to sound like George Bush, but I don't want to see anyone left behind. But I really mean it, hence the difference."
Of those eight artists he listed there, Lee, Pitney, and Sledge (one of the most controversial inductions, by the way) have been honored since that interview. And since Stein is still on the Committee, and he doesn't want to leave anyone behind, you can bet he will join Steven Van Zandt in trying to get the Hollies in.

Stein goes on to make a prediction, that is laughable in hindsight:

Stein does not predict that any artist, whether in 2001 or in future years, will ever sail into the hall the first year they are eligible, the way, say, the Beatles did in 1988, or Bruce Springsteen did in 1999. He cited a random selection of artists, from James Taylor to Earth, Wind & Fire to Gene Vincent to Parliament-Funkadelic to Joni Mitchell to the Bee Gees to the Velvet Underground, who waited a few, or many, years for induction.
Presumably Stein felt that no other artists will ever live up to the standard of the Beatles or Springsteen. But his theory about first ballot Hall of Famers was proved wrong the very next year when Tom Petty, Talking Heads and the Ramones were all inducted in their first year of eligibility. In fact there have been 11 first ballot Hall of Famers since Stein made his prediction, Madonna being the most recent example.

Stein and Van Zandt have been rather candid about their biases in favor of the music of their youth. At some point, don't you have to close the book on that chapter in rock and roll history and start recognizing some of the gaping holes in later periods? How many groups from the 50's and 60's still need to be inducted before the award is completely stripped of its prestige?

As a way to keep a fresh perspective on the Rock Hall, perhaps there should be term limits for the Nominating Committee members. There is little doubt that each of the members, past and present, have been qualified to help shape the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But you can imagine what happens when the same group meets year after year: At the committee meeting, the member nominates a few artists, they get tossed around and ultimately get rejected or put on the ballot. The next year, the committee member tries again with the same names that didn't make it, and tries to wear down the other members into submission. A five year term limit would allow committee members ample opportunity to advocate for their favorite artists, but wouldn't let them stay so long that their perspective gets outdated.

So, are term limits a good idea? Is five years the right amount of time? Let's hear it in the comments.

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Courtney Love Unhappy with Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Sure, this story is from eight years ago, but it is well worth repeating here:
Last week, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame announced its annual list of inductees. The news was followed by the annual list of grievances and complaints about those choices in the music business. This year, however, the opposition included a particularly high-profile and vitriolic voice, Courtney Love's.

. . .

Some in the music industry were upset that punk-rock and female acts were not represented in the winners' circle, but Ms. Love had her own ax to grind. Evidently not a fan of the New York Dolls, Black Sabbath or Lou Reed [nominees who weren't inducted that year], she lambasted the Hall of Fame in a telegram: ''How dare you fools not put Lynyrd Skynyrd, Patti Smith, or AC/DC in your Hall of Fame. Damn you to the darkest belly of the underworld. Stop.''

She goes on to demand that the items belonging to herself and her husband, Kurt Cobain, that are in the possession of the Hall of Fame's museum in Cleveland be returned: ''Any of my stuff you stole, I want back immediately. Stop. This includes any of mine or Kurt's clothes, guitars, or debris that you scavenged for. Stop. I hope that no one I know is ever inducted into your idiotic 'Hall of Fame.' ''

One wonders what will happen in 2011, when Nirvana, Cobain's old group, will most likely be inducted into the Hall of Fame.

Ms. Love concludes her telegram: ''You are a sham and you deserve Bush. Stop. He probably has the same taste in music as you.''

An employee for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame said the sentiments expressed in the telegram captured the true spirit of rock 'n' roll.

Well, Michael Stipe has been inducted into the "idiotic" Hall of Fame, and he's Love's daughter's godfather, so that's at least one Hall of Famer that she knows.

For the record, Nirvana can't actually be inducted prior to the 2014 Induction Ceremony and Hole won't be eligible until two years after that.

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Using Rolling Stone's 100 Best Guitar Songs as a Predictor for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

100guitarsongs

Rolling Stone magazine recently came up with a list of the "100 Greatest Guitar Songs of All Time." Despite the name, the list isn't really indicative of the best guitar songs, but more of a rundown of the greatest artists of all-time with tracks selected from each.

These types of lists are generally good indicators of who Rolling Stone thinks the important artists are. And because of the overlap between the Rolling Stone writers and the members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee, it might show who could be headed for future induction.

Here is the list of artists in order, with their Hall of Fame status in parentheses. The guitar song can be found on Rolling Stone's website -- it's irrelevant here.

  1. Chuck Berry (yes)
  2. The Jimi Hendrix Experience (yes)
  3. Cream (yes)
  4. The Kinks (yes)
  5. The Rolling Stones (yes)
  6. Van Halen (yes)
  7. The Beatles (yes)
  8. Led Zeppelin (yes)
  9. The Allman Brothers Band (yes)
  10. Nirvana (eligible in 2013)
  11. Led Zeppelin (yes)
  12. The Jimi Hendrix Experience (yes)
  13. Derek and the Dominos (eligible since 1995)
  14. Bruce Springsteen (yes)
  15. The Who (yes)
  16. Neil Young With Crazy Horse (yes)
  17. Black Sabbath (yes)
  18. Ramones (yes)
  19. Prince and the Revolution (yes)
  20. The Impressions (yes)
  21. The White Stripes (eligible in 2024)
  22. The Beatles (yes)
  23. The Yardbirds (yes)
  24. Rage Against the Machine (eligible in 2017)
  25. The Rolling Stone (yes)
  26. B.B. King (yes)
  27. The Paul Butterfield Blues Band (eligible since 1988)
  28. U2 (yes)
  29. AC/DC (yes)
  30. Bill Haley and His Comets (yes)
  31. Queen (yes)
  32. Dire Straits (eligible since 2003)
  33. Metallica (eligible since 2007)
  34. Aerosmith (yes)
  35. The Stooges (eligible since 1994)
  36. Pink Floyd (yes)
  37. Elvis Presley (yes)
  38. The Faces (eligible since 1995)
  39. Santana (yes)
  40. The Who (yes)
  41. Television (eligible since 2002)
  42. John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers (eligible since 1990)
  43. The Sex Pistols (yes)
  44. Sleater-Kinney (eligible in 2020)
  45. The Beatles (yes)
  46. Dick Dale and the Del-Tones (eligible since 1987)
  47. Van Halen (yes)
  48. The Clash (yes)
  49. Jimi Hendrix (yes)
  50. Pixies (eligible in 2012)
  51. Ozzy Osbourne (eligible since 2005)
  52. Radiohead (eligible in 2017)
  53. Creedance Clearwater Revival (yes)
  54. Stevie Ray Vaughan (eligible in 2008)
  55. Cream (yes)
  56. The Byrds (yes)
  57. Grateful Dead (yes)
  58. Link Wray (eligible since 1985)
  59. Jeff Beck (eligible since 1992)
  60. Funkadelic (yes)
  61. Sam and Dave (yes)
  62. Albert King (eligible since 1987)
  63. Guns n' Roses (eligible in 2011)
  64. Lynyrd Skynyrd (yes)
  65. The Police (yes)
  66. Stevie Ray Vaughan (eligible in 2008)
  67. Bruce Springsteen (yes)
  68. B.B. King (yes)
  69. Pink Floyd (yes)
  70. Smashing Pumpkins (eligible in 2015)
  71. The Strokes (eligible in 2026)
  72. Weezer (eligible in 2019)
  73. Blue Cheer (eligible since 1993)
  74. ZZ Top (yes)
  75. Frank Zappa (yes)
  76. Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers (yes)
  77. Pearl Jam (eligible in 2016)
  78. Buddy Guy (yes)
  79. Sonic Youth (eligible since 2007)
  80. Steely Dan (yes)
  81. Michael Jackson (yes)
  82. The Ventures (yes)
  83. Sublime (eligible in 2017)
  84. John Mayer (eligible in 2024)
  85. Phish (eligible in 2013)
  86. Jeff Beck (eligible since 1992)
  87. King Crimson (eligible since 1994)
  88. Quicksilver Messenger Service (eligible since 1993)
  89. Joan Jett and the Blackhearts (eligible since 2005)
  90. The Smiths (eligible in 2008)
  91. The Mars Volta (eligible in 2027)
  92. Mick Jagger (eligible in 1995)
  93. My Bloody Valentine (eligible in 2010)
  94. Dire Straits (eligible since 2003)
  95. Moby Grape (eligible since 1992)
  96. Hüsker Dü (eligible since 2006)
  97. Queens of the Stone Age (eligible in 2023)
  98. Red Hot Chili Peppers (eligible in 2009)
  99. My Morning Jacket (eligible in 2024)
  100. Tool (eligible in 2017)

There are 46 songs from non-Hall of Famers by 43 different artists. Of these artists, 20 are already eligible for induction, with at least seven having been "previously considered" by the Nominating Committee (Albert King, Jeff Beck, Dick Dale, The Faces, The Stooges, Metallica, and The Paul Butterfield Blues Band).

As for the artists that aren't eligible yet, many of them are very likely future Hall of Famers. Bands like Nirvana, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Pearl Jam, The White Stripes, and Radiohead are almost certainly going to be inducted. As for the Mars Volta, the Strokes, and My Morning Jacket, it's probably a little too soon to know if they'll make it, but making this list is a sign they're on Rolling Stone's radar.

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Judas Priest would welcome Rock Hall honor

Priest
Glenn Tipton, guitarist for Judas Priest, told MTV that if the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ever inducted them, they would be proud to accept the award:
Though they still come out with fresh experiments like [their new concept album, Nostradamus], Priest have been banging their heads for more than three decades. But the veterans have never been considered for inclusion in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, despite being eligible since 1999. Tipton said it's an honor the band would welcome but one he doesn't expect anytime soon.

"We'd absolutely be honored by it, but we have no control over that," he said. "Besides, we haven't been noticed for 30 years. Maybe they'll notice us now that we've crossed that 30-year mark."

Maybe in researching the new album, Tipton discovered the writings where Nostradamus predicted that Judas Priest would be inducted in 2009. Given the current constitution of the Nominating Committee, it will probably take a lot longer than that before 70's and 80's metal get recognized by the Hall of Fame.
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A Case for Chicago

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Phil Gallo, over at Variety, discusses whether or not Chicago and the Doobie Brothers should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. He argues that Chicago deserves it, but the Doobies don't (but he never really states why not).

His case for Chicago:

Chicago... were revolutionaries. "CTA," "Chicago," "III," "V," "VI" and "XI" pushed the limits on conceptual boundaries and displayed superb musicianship. And they had hits, which has somehow been labeled as a sin over time.

I have been appalled by the acts that have made it in ahead of them. It shows the bias of the hall's voters - they are either too old to have the wistful childhood memories of the early '70s or too young to fully appreciate how distinctive they were in the pop landscape at the time. Chicago made a difference back then.

Both Chicago and the Doobies are fan favorites, but each have been eligible for over 10 years without a single nomination, so they have to be considered long shots for future induction until the Rock Hall reconsiders the 70's.

Idolator came up with a list of 70's snubs:

ABBA
Bachman-Turner Overdrive
Boston
Captain Beefheart & The Magic Band
Cars
Deep Purple
Devo
Neil Diamond
Doobie Brothers
Electric Light Orchestra
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Foreigner
Peter Gabriel
Genesis
Guess Who
Hall & Oates
Hawkwind
Heart
Jethro Tull
KC & The Sunshine Band
King Crimson
Kiss
Moody Blues
Procol Harum
Randy Newman
Todd Rundgren
Roxy Music
Rush
Styx
Supertramp
Richard & Linda Thompson
Three Dog Night
Loudon Wainwright III
Yes
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