Public Enemy

Rock & Roll Hall of Famer

Category: Performer

Inducted in: 2013

Inducted by: Spike Lee and Harry Belafonte

Nominated in: 2013

First Eligible: 2013 Ceremony

Inducted Members: Chuck D, Flavor Flav, Professor Griff, Terminator X


Inducted into Rock Hall Projected in 2013 (ranked #41) .


Essential Albums (?)WikipediaAmazon MP3Amazon CD
It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back (1988)
Fear Of A Black Planet (1990)

Essential Songs (?)WikipediaAmazon MP3YouTube
Bring The Noise (1987)
Rebel Without A Pause (1988)
Don't Believe the Hype (1988)
Fight the Power (1989)
Brothers Gonna Work It Out (1990)
911 Is A Joke (1990)

Public Enemy @ Wikipedia

Public Enemy Videos

Comments

125 comments so far (post your own)

i believe they should, even though they werent rock, they were an influence to many and was one of the few artists who created hip-hop

Posted by Edward on Saturday, 11.18.06 @ 05:28am


Public Enemy No.1 are a huge influence
they basically founded hip-hop and rap.
chuck D was a genius.

Posted by Edward on Sunday, 11.19.06 @ 02:02am


No, they did not found hip-hop. They would probably be considered to in the second wave of rap artists after the old school cats who did create the genre. I feel they will definitely make it into the rock hall of fame. They had a huge impact when they came out in the 80s all the way into the 90s. More importantly they were liked by the music critics. Also, they will get points from music snobs because they play with a live band - The Banned.

Posted by Sneak on Friday, 12.29.06 @ 20:01pm


newsflash...on what planet did public enemy become rock? i'm not going to deny their contribution to hip-hop/ rap, but they did not contribute to rock in nay manner. NO. not when there are deserving rock groups that have been tragically overlooked.

Posted by Alice on Monday, 01.1.07 @ 13:17pm


Of all Rap acts... Public Enemy ROCKS. Alice, you should give Fight the Power a listen. If there isn't a greater call to arms in all of popular music, I haven't heard it.

The grinding crashing whooping sounds that these guys made are the backbone of today's techno, and bands like Rage Against the Machine are HEAVILY influenced by them.

Even if the premise is that Rap isn't rock... then you have to admit that it is as influential on rock as the jazz and country acts who are currently in the hall are.

Oh... and these guys rock so much more than James Taylor and Elton John, it's not even funny.

Posted by lightninli on Sunday, 01.7.07 @ 02:00am


Pblic enemy did have its influence on Rock. Lets jump into our time machinbes and go back to 1991.
PE teams up with Anthrax to redo "bring the Noise". This culmination has been influential to quite a few bands with the rap rock sound (not counting Fred Durst because nobody likes that crap (sorry to anyLimp Bizkit fans out there. All 3 of you). Public enemy was a truly inspiring group who made great music. They ween't just hip hop. Kids who listened to rap could listen to them. Punk rock kids and Metal heads can listen to them (Scott Ian's a fan)Do they deserve to be in the Rock Hall. I think yes. It's not up to me though. I do agree with Alice though. There are many deserving bands and artists that are overlooked. Hopefully they get in. Keep in mind this is jut opinion. Peace

Posted by drp on Tuesday, 01.16.07 @ 11:34am


The argument that [whatever band you dislike] isn't rock n' roll has already been thrown out. They inducted Grandmaster Flash and Miles Davis; they're about to induct Madonna; it's obviously become about music, not rock n' roll.

And besides, as DRP points out, "Bring the Noise" was one of the pioneer rock/rap hybrids. And what about "Sophisticated Bitch," off their very first album "Yo! Bum Rush the Show?" Vernon Reid played guitar on that song!

Their anti-Semitism is troubling, though. Check out this line from "Fear of a Black Planet:" "Crucifixion ain't no fiction/So-called chosen, frozen/Apology made to whoever pleases./Still they got me like Jesus."

But hell, by this time Guns N Roses will be in despite the rampant racism apparent in "One in a Million," so I guess some ugly personal beliefs can be forgiven.

In conclusion, Limp Bizkit sucks.

Posted by Al on Wednesday, 01.24.07 @ 08:35am


if Grandmaster Flash is in, why the hell not

Posted by Hummer on Wednesday, 04.11.07 @ 16:00pm


They are a major rap pioneer...RATM is influenced by them. They will be in during their first 5 years of eligibility.

Posted by maplejet on Friday, 04.13.07 @ 18:44pm


The 2012 Rock Inductees will showcase a first, all 5 Artists will be rap performers

-P to the E
-E to the PMD
-N to the WA
-B to the D to the P
-and can't touch this Hammer

Yeah that's right boys and girls "CANX CHRISTMAS, LOCK ALL YOUR DOORS AND WINDOWS, AND ESPECIALLY HIDE YOUR DAUGHTERS CAUSE THUGS ARE BUM RUSHIN THIS HOF"

Posted by Jason on Sunday, 05.27.07 @ 20:02pm


Public enemy and NWA are needed
I'm not sure about the others

Posted by roméo on Monday, 05.28.07 @ 11:18am


If rap evolved from rock, how can rap influence rock? It is a rock and roll hall of fame, not rap.

Posted by Chance on Thursday, 07.19.07 @ 09:49am


I believe that only several hip-hop acts belong in the hall and Public Enemy are easily one of them

Posted by Chalkie on Saturday, 08.18.07 @ 19:05pm


"If rap evolved from rock, how can rap influence rock? It is a rock and roll hall of fame, not rap."

how utterly ignorant that comment was

Posted by liam on Saturday, 09.8.07 @ 14:17pm


Man!!! California is catching hell from all those wildfires. Burn Hollywood Burn!!! Just kidding. My heart goes out to all the people who lost everything because of the disaster.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Thursday, 10.25.07 @ 08:45am


First of all, rock and roll is deined by whether or not it moves you. Rap and hip hop move you, especially Public Enemy. The only reason that Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five are the only hip hoppers in there is because it takes at least 25 years between your first record to be eligible. Hip hop and rap has only been around for about 27 or 28 years. Public Enemy revolutionized hip hop and paved the way for today's gangsta' rappers, they were just more intellectually gifted. Chuck D kicks ass!!

Posted by keith on Tuesday, 10.30.07 @ 17:50pm


I don't think we've ever had a group that was as brave, political, and supportive of what they represented like Public Enemy. Chuck D was the first rapper to speak his mind and that could reach people. Flavor Flav started the showmanship style at rap shows. It's a yes for me.

Posted by SSR on Sunday, 12.2.07 @ 09:28am


It's funny how there is such a WIDE variety of music that is and will be honored in the HOF, but when it comes to hip-hop, which has revolutionized the music generation, since Rock n'Roll. It still has its naysayers that don't want it in.....wow! We still are a country set on the " good ole boy system", even in music.

Posted by Kobie on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 23:43pm


i'll be simple here

if run dmc gets inducted then IMO public enemy gets inducted.

"fight the power" "911 is a joke"
PE at their best

Posted by baw "the lumberjack" on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 16:51pm


P.E. deserves to be in. "Black Steel" rocks. "She Watch Channel Zero" rocks.. "Terrordome" rocks!! P.E. was kinda like the punk rock of rap. The beats were louder and frantic. The vocal delivery was hard and in your face. And the lyrics actually had impact. Around the time P.E. was blowing up, there weren't many "rock" artists that hit harder than them. All I remember is seeing videos on MTV of bands where I couldn't tell the difference between the dude playing guitar or the ho grinding up against him. P.E. can stand alongside artists such as Dylan, Neil Young, The Clash, Bad Religion, Pearl Jam, and Rage Against The Machine any day!!

Posted by Billy Hud on Monday, 10.13.08 @ 01:25am


Public Enemy should be elected to the rock & roll hall of fame.Great hip-hop group and very influential in political hip-hop.They even influenced rage against the machine a rock band.

Posted by Chris on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 19:28pm


Whatever chance Public Enemy has is slowly eroded by every minute that Flavor Flav continues to get TV exposure. Seriously, "Flavor Of Love" hurts ALL of Public Enemy, imo.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 12.1.08 @ 19:38pm


"It Takes a Nation of Millions to Convince Them to Retire." Joking aside, Public Enemy are easily influential and innovative -- heck, revolutionary -- to warrant induction.

And yes, I do think rap deserves an equal seat in the HoF. Those who don't...well, I can only presume that you're all pasty, white-as-whitbread, overweight suburbanite Americans with racist leaning (if only subconscious for the latter).

Posted by Jack on Monday, 02.2.09 @ 14:37pm


"And yes, I do think rap deserves an equal seat in the HoF. Those who don't...well, I can only presume that you're all pasty, white-as-whitbread, overweight suburbanite Americans with racist leaning (if only subconscious for the latter)."

Presume all you want. I could be a member of the kkk and it still wouldn't change the fact that rap is not music, much less rock.

Posted by Randy on Monday, 02.2.09 @ 23:49pm


Geez... Do you even know what a fact is?

Posted by The_Claw on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 05:38am


"Presume all you want. I could be a member of the kkk and it still wouldn't change the fact that rap is not music,"

OK, Randy, first we have to look at the actual definition of "music" before we can dismiss anything. Let's take that from Dictionary.com for convenience:

"art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color."

Since this is Public Enemy's page and all, let's take my own personal favourite song of theirs, "Brothers Gonna Work It Out."

-Is it sound? Yes.
-Does it express ideas and emotions? Certainly.
-Does it have a rhythm? Indeed.
-Melody? Definitely.
-Harmony? Definitely. The chiming piano note looped in the background sits perfectly with the rest of the arrangement.
-Color? Definitely.

So, looking at all these I can safely say that rap IS music.

"much less rock."

Silly argument; the HoF was only named the "Rock and Roll" HoF as a hookline. Here's my basic argument for rap's inclusion:

1. Music is at a point where so many rock artists have been influenced by rap and so many vice-versa that the two genres are integral to each other at this time.
2. As such, rap artists who have provided a sizeable influence to rock artists should be inducted without question.
3. Since we're inducting these few rap artists into the HoF, why not do so for the early influences for rap music? Why leave the picture incomplete?
4. Linking in with the previous point, why should there be a problem with inducting rap aritsts who -- wait for it -- influenced other rap artists?

As for the crusty old argument as for "rap" music not being "rock" music, the most obvious answer is to change the name. But the fact is that so many stylistic have been, are being and will always be broken down that genre labels -- at least the very basic ones such as "rock" and "pop" -- are thoroughly obsolete and useless.

One point that really does make think racism is playing a part in people wanting to exclude rap is the fact that I have yet to see a single argument for the exclusion of folk music. Folk, on a basic level, certainly isn't rock; why is that exempt from your argument?

Posted by Jack on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 06:00am


Change the name of the HoF, that is. Sorry if that was unclear.

Posted by Jack on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 06:01am


I'll have to agree here with Jackhole. Rap is music & is a variant of Rock and Roll. Public Enemy will probably be the next rap group inducted & I think they should be inducted.

They hads some fine songs & they were (grrrr) 'influential'.

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 12:27pm


Fine songs? They put out a bunch of classic albums!

ps: I'm keeping this name, it's great.

Posted by Jackhole on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 12:29pm


Yeeeaaah Boooy !!!

Posted by Joe-Skee on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 16:52pm


Indeed, Jackhole (or Liam), you'll love the Coven board. You should've been here for St. Jimmy (don't know if he's still posting).

I expressed my opinion several times about rap in the Rock Hall, stating that I felt those rappers who actively engaged the rock process at some point should be considered. A quick list of Yes & No's(my take):

Yes: Run DMC, Public Enemy, PM Dawn, Ice-T, Cypress Hill, the Roots, Gnarls Barkley 9amongst others)

No: Dre, Tupac, Snoop, Biggie, Eminem, Jay-Z
--------------------------------------------------
4. Linking in with the previous point, why should there be a problem with inducting rap artists who -- wait for it -- influenced other rap artists?

One small issue here - did the artists influenced go on to sample a band based rock style. The rappers I've said no to have done nothing to affect rock. This site states that the artists voted on must influence or innovate to help push rock forward, or something to that point. If there not letting in an act like KISS, that for all of it was at least an actual rock band, why should they even consider leting in certain rappers on the strength of being rappers?

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 17:16pm


IMO, I have a hard time calling rap a "variant" of Rock 'n' Roll. It's just so different from rock'n'roll, that it resembles rock'n'roll as much as a stick figure resembles three-dimensional life.

As for why we don't exclude folk, very simple: folk, particularly because of its political messages, has gone miles in influencing and perpetuating rock 'n' roll music.

As far as rappers influencing other rappers... with so many rappers and R&B artists appearing on each other's records, how much of it is actual influence, and how much is professional courtesy?

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 18:09pm


Philip - if we accept that Rock and Pop flow hand in hand, then you must say the same about Rap. Blondie rapped and they are in. And once you had the intergration of the two leading to rap/rock (Aerosmith/Run DMC; Anthrax/Public Enemy) which then led to music by Faith No More, etc., then you have to accept Rap into the RnR hall of Fame. If I have to accept Madonna, I sure as sh*t am going to accept NWA, Public Enemy, Run DMC, etc.

I may not like it, but I will accept it.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 18:35pm


Perhaps... but 1) that doesn't mean "rap" is a variant of "rock"; 2) I don't think you can say Rock and Pop flow hand in hand necessarily, beyond the extent that Rock was/is popular and was THE thing to be, just as much as Rap is THE thing to be nowadays, but one commonality doesn't make one a "variant" of the other; 3) we're still talking about criteria that state "contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll." Therefore, I don't believe you should include rappers who only influenced other rappers.

I've said it before on this site. GF&TFF--YES! RunDMC--YES! Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, Ice-T--YES! OutKast--Probably, but I'll need to wait a few more years before stating positively. Sugarhill Gang, Eminem, Snoop Dogg--Maybe. Jay-Z, Ja Rule, Mystikal, Lil' Wayne--not unless rock music and rock musicians state and show the influence of those rappers on them.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 02.3.09 @ 18:56pm


"Gnarls Barkley" - Cheescrop

First they aren't rap, and second they haven't innovated anything or influenced anyone.

"One small issue here - did the artists influenced go on to sample a band based rock style."

Sorry? Rephrase this question.

"The rappers I've said no to have done nothing to affect rock."

No, it's "the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll." Key phrase: rock and roll. If we're going to take that literally we shouldn't be inducting anyone from past, say 1975 at a push.

"If there not letting in an act like KISS, that for all of it was at least an actual rock band, why should they even consider leting in certain rappers on the strength of being rappers?"

Because KISS weren't particularly influential and were completely derivative. They were utter shit too, but that's tangential.

Posted by Jack on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 09:48am


"It's just so different from rock'n'roll, that it resembles rock'n'roll as much as a stick figure resembles three-dimensional life."

Like I said before, "rock" music has become so diverse in the past few decades as to make the basic term obsolete. Listen to Talk Talk's "The Rainbow," Birthday Party's "Big Jesus Trash Can,", My Bloody Valentine's "Soon" and Brian Eno's "Sky Saw" back-to-back and try to draw a single stylistic line between them -- you can't do it.

"As for why we don't exclude folk, very simple: folk, particularly because of its political messages, has gone miles in influencing and perpetuating rock 'n' roll music."

The same is true for rap. As such, rap goes in.

"As far as rappers influencing other rappers... with so many rappers and R&B artists appearing on each other's records, how much of it is actual influence, and how much is professional courtesy?"

What does that have to do with anything? Working on somebody else's record does not mean to say they influenced you.

Posted by Jack on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 09:56am


For that matter, what about the many jazz, blues and country artists? For that matter, what about r&b acts? What the hell do The Supremes, Al Green, Etta James, The O'Jays or the other soul and doowop acts that make up like half of the Rock Hall have to do with actual by-the-dictionary rock and roll?

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 12:08pm


I think the Hall is still yet to recognise jazz anywhere near enough yet. Is Coltrane even in yet?

Blues is in because its impact on rock and roll was direct and unquestionable. Same for soul and doowop, although less so.

Posted by Jack H. on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 12:16pm


"Is Coltrane even in yet?"

No, and I wouldn't hold my breath for it either.

And yes, while soul, r&b and doowop were a huge influence on rock at its dawn and on through the Motown era, I'm not sure what quote-unquote rock act would say their music was directly influenced by Al Green, or Gladys Knight, or so on. Yet no one complaints about their inductions, and rightly so. What makes hiphop that much different?

Of course, what is going to happen is that rap will be pushed to the same ghetto (to coin a phrase har har) that prog-rock, art-rock, heavy metal and glam rock occupy while they induct more soul and classic rock acts from the '60s -- at least until they get to the '90s and can induct Pearl Jam and Green Day and Radiohead. A few tokens, the really obvious ones like Public Enemy and the Beasties, will slip in, but for the foreseeable future, it will be another unjustifiably ignored genre.

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 13:17pm


Damn, Sun Ra, Dolphy and other such jazz legends sure don't stand much of a chance if Coltrane can't get in...

"Of course, what is going to happen is that rap will be pushed to the same ghetto (to coin a phrase har har) that prog-rock, art-rock, heavy metal and glam rock occupy"

Doubtful. What will most likely happen is that the HoF will stick to inducting nothing but the mainstream rap artists with little influence and innovation (surprise, surprise) -- think people like Jay-Z and L'il Wayne; generally mediocre stuff -- and completely ignore the thriving underground scenes. Just like it's currently doing with rock music...

Posted by Jack H. on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 14:16pm


"One small issue here - did the artists influenced go on to sample a band based rock style."

Sorry? Rephrase this question.

"The rappers I've said no to have done nothing to affect rock."

No, it's "the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll." Key phrase: rock and roll. If we're going to take that literally we shouldn't be inducting anyone from past, say 1975 at a push.

Posted by Jack on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 09:48am
--------------------------------------------------
Fiorst off, I had no clue you are one of the people who attempt to differentiate between "rock & roll" & "rock". To each his own, I guess.

When I mentioned about rappers engaging in a rock band format, I meant just that - how many rappers attempted to create rock using a guitar, a live bass, a live set of drums, & whatever else you wish to add over the rhythm section? The interplay between a live band vs those who use samples is different. Niehter one is necessarily better than the other - merely different. The reason I chose who I chose in the No column is because I know of no clear case where these gentlemen ever attempted to engage the live band format on record.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 02.4.09 @ 17:42pm


"When I mentioned about rappers engaging in a rock band format, I meant just that..."

This is completely tangential and irrelevant. Nothing to do with influencing and innovating whatsoever.

Posted by Jack H. on Thursday, 02.5.09 @ 07:48am


"When I mentioned about rappers engaging in a rock band format, I meant just that..."

This is completely tangential and irrelevant. Nothing to do with influencing and innovating whatsoever.

Posted by Jack H. on Thursday, 02.5.09 @ 07:48am
--------------------------------------------------
The statement above is no worse than you taking my words out of context in a desperate attempt to make them seem both "tangential and irrelevant".

As for what you wrote here, you are indeed quite incorrect in your summation. This does have to do w/I & I - if we are talking about hip-hop being considered for a rock & roll hall of fame. As I've said before I do not deny any hip-hop act who had a meaningful connection w/rock the right to enter. In the case of those who do not have this, I question the logic behind the reasoning, that's all.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 07:18am


"This does have to do w/I & I - if we are talking about hip-hop being considered for a rock & roll hall of fame."

Then explain how. Explain how using guitar/bass/drums combo = being influential to rock music = deserving of a place in the HoF; aswell as how not using a guitar/bass/drums combo = not being influential to rock music = not deserving of a place in the HoF.

"As I've said before I do not deny any hip-hop act who had a meaningful connection w/rock the right to enter. In the case of those who do not have this, I question the logic behind the reasoning, that's all."

Plenty of bands have and do play rock music without sticking to your flimsy notions of guitar + bass + drums = RAWK. I question the logic bhind whatever the hell it is you're arguing.

Posted by Jack H. on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 07:30am


Plenty of bands have and do play rock music without sticking to your flimsy notions of guitar + bass + drums = RAWK.

Posted by Jack H. (Liam) on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 07:30am
--------------------------------------------------
After reading this ,i have to admit you are quite right. At the same time the answer to this question will show not only what my thinking is, but how it is a fair & just line of thinking.

Acts like Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc. did highlight other instruments as a lead besides guitar, notably pianos in both their cases (also horns for Richard). What I am getting at is that they employ instruments in a live band setting. It is the critical diff. between the two. There is a diff. between a live act w/multiple musicians and a DJ & rapper combo. Not that one is necessarily better than the other - just different. Rock started as a live band outlet, & the interplay between players as such has always constituted one of the most impt. things about the form.

Continue on next post, please -

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 16:31pm


Liam - from last post -

I begrudge no act that has explored the live band format it's right to enter the Hall. Run DMC, Public Enemy, Cypress Hill, P.M. Dawn, etc. all explored this of presumably their own wishes. Nor do I begrudge those acts like Grandmaster Flash for introducing elements that were incorporated into rock (i.e. scratching).

It breaks like this... if there were a hip-hop Hall (& deep down inside you sound like you want to see one - no issue there as I agree), you'd assume that an early influences section would have to include some rock artists. Logic dictates that someone like Aerosmith would get in there, for obvious reasons. Would you necessarily induct Jethro Tull into a hiphop museum? Probably not. They've done nothing to influence hip-hop in anyway, except being a rock band. That doesn't always matter in regards to the form.

Take that same logic, invert it to fit Jay-Z, Eminem, Snoop, etc. & you have my reasoning.

If you dislike this logic, send me a petition to induct Enrico Caruso. I'm sure the two of us together could con the Rock Hall with whatever counter-argument you would propose here.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 16:42pm


"I don't see why Rap should have to incorporate instruments (although plenty of them do - notably The Beasties). Rapping is as much a skill as playing any instrument."- Liam

Hate to say it, but this statement would have to be reserved for someone who doesn't play an instrument...it's borderline ridiculous. I think the genre we refer to as "rap" is given way too much credit for creativity. The majority of rappers use sampling, which means the hard part is already done for them. I'm not saying ALL rappers, but the majority do use sampling, which I'm not totally crazy about. That particular market is so saturated that it's hard to tell one from another.

I've played my instrument for a long time, and I know for a fact that learning it was more difficult than "synchronized talking". It's a very hard sell to me, even though I like a lot of the originals (who don't seem to warrant a lot of discussions on this site), and modern day ones like the Beasties, Dizzee Rascal, etc... who seem to try to convey at least some originality.

I guess if you packaged up a pile of crap, you can always find someone willing to buy it....

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 18:06pm


Yep...synchronizing drums, guitar, bass, and any other instruments a group might choose into one music making entity that sounds at least halfway decent is certainly a flimsy notion. Gee, with a statement like that, ANYONE sahould be able to do it...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 18:39pm


"Like I said before, "rock" music has become so diverse in the past few decades as to make the basic term obsolete. Listen to Talk Talk's "The Rainbow," Birthday Party's "Big Jesus Trash Can,", My Bloody Valentine's "Soon" and Brian Eno's "Sky Saw" back-to-back and try to draw a single stylistic line between them -- you can't do it."--Liam

I tried listening to the Birthday Party a few times, and I'm sorry, I can't make it through one of their songs. They sound like a Tijuana-style donkey show taking place in a Ford motor production plant during the day shift (pre-recession labor cuts, that is).

Brian Eno and Talk Talk are ok. But both linger close enough to the generally accepted parameters for rock. Not to mention that doing one ballad that isn't rock doesn't mean one is less of a rock band. Did KISS (regardless of opinion) stop being a rock band when they released "Beth"? Or U2 when they recorded "MLK" (the last track on The Unforgettable Fire, NOT to be confused with "Pride (In The Name Of Love)"? You can't say the same for rap artists. Their general style, what is typical for them, strays so far from rock that even the widest umbrella has trouble covering rap.


"The same is true for rap. As such, rap goes in."--Liam

Yeah, but we're not inducting every folk artist. And we're not inducting folk artists who only inspire other folk artists. We're inducting folk artists who actually influence ROCK music. The same for rappers. Unless they were hugely influential to rock, I would say HELL NO to the Treacherous Three. I've listed the ones off the top of my head whom I'd give the nod to. Rappers that influence rock, yes; rappers that only influence other rappers, no.

"What does that have to do with anything? Working on somebody else's record does not mean to say they influenced you."--Liam

You know that, and I know that. But you're gonna come across other people who don't... who think that rappers are claiming influence on each other because they're appearing on each other's records. It's pure nonsense, and I want to make sure we agree that this is a BS argument before it gets made.

Gitarzan makes a point too... while we're toasting rappers, let's make sure the credit is due to the rappers and not their producers or engineers.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 02.6.09 @ 23:42pm


"Hate to say it, but this statement would have to be reserved for someone who doesn't play an instrument...it's borderline ridiculous."#

It's not ridiculous in the slightest, and I actually play piano and electric guitar. I find it terribly ironic that someone would say such a thing when the comment itself reveals a painful ignorance and lack of appreciation of the skill necessary behind skillful rapping.

"I think the genre we refer to as "rap" is given way too much credit for creativity."

I'd say precisely the same thing for rock and pop music.

"The majority of rappers use sampling, which means the hard part is already done for them."

Right, that's not the most ill-informed thing I've read all week... So, lyrics and flow just pour themselves out on top of beats, do they? And beats just materialize themselves?

"I'm not saying ALL rappers, but the majority do use sampling, which I'm not totally crazy about."

This rampant conservatism displayed by a great deal of musicians is something I've always hated. What do you find wrong with it?

"I've played my instrument for a long time, and I know for a fact that learning it was more difficult than "synchronized talking"."

What a cynical pile of sh*t. I would never have imagined you, Gitarzan, would have came out with it though...

-----

"I tried listening to the Birthday Party a few times, and I'm sorry, I can't make it through one of their songs. They sound like a Tijuana-style donkey show taking place in a Ford motor production plant during the day shift (pre-recession labor cuts, that is)."

No, they sound like the most excellent, drugged-out and tightest avant-rock band ever. And seen as how you called Rihanna "actually talented," I don't really think you have a leg to stand on whatsoever.

"Brian Eno and Talk Talk are ok. But both linger close enough to the generally accepted parameters for rock."

1. They're both great.
2. There is no "accepeted parameter" for rock music.
3. Really? Have you actually listened to BaAS and Laughing Stock?

"Their general style, what is typical for them, strays so far from rock that even the widest umbrella has trouble covering rap."

Not at all. Most (not all) rap works on standard rock and pop structures and uses (borrows) the common instrumentation as much rock. It's solely the vocal delivery that marks the difference.

"Yeah, but we're not inducting every folk artist."

And we aren't inducting ever rock, pop or rap artist. Why does this matter?

"And we're not inducting folk artists who only inspire other folk artists. We're inducting folk artists who actually influence ROCK music. The same for rappers."

Read up the page and you'll see my argument from this.

"Gitarzan makes a point too... while we're toasting rappers, let's make sure the credit is due to the rappers and not their producers or engineers."

Umm, production is just as important as actual MCing in rap music. I take it you'd induct Flavor Flav and Chuck D without the rest of Public Enemy...which is wrong.

Posted by Jack H. on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 04:18am


First of all, my opinions (and they are just that...opinions, which you're also entitled to) are not derived from "ignorance and lack of appreciation", since I've spent plenty of time around recording studios AND rappers...in most cases (another key phrase), if you can talk, you can rap. Any other way of thinking would be pretzel logic. Having taught guitar for a number of years, I've seen people who, no matter how hard they tried or loved the instrument, just simply couldn't do it. I don't think that probem exists much in rap.

There's a blatant lack of creativity in just about all genres nowadays...rappers are simply the poster boys for what's important in popular music today...money!!! Which brings me to purchasing music online. No one has to buy "throw-ins" on albums anymore. Artists will make money "14 cents at a time" and the "get rich quick" era of music will essentially be over. That's going to weed out an awful lot of "bad music", which I would imagine will hit the rap/hip-hop industry pretty hard. You honestly don't think there's a lot of little rappers sitting at the edge of their beds with their "Mr. Microphones" practicing because they love it, do you??? Now there are a lot of ulterior motives for playing an instrument well, but loving it is usually what gets you started. One famous rapper once said "If I couldn't make a lot of money rapping do you think I'd be doing it?"...I think the vast majority think that same way. Now, if you're really good at it and you can make a few bucks at making music...different story. They'd better get used to it, because that's the way it's going to be sooner than not.

Now, Jack...these are my opinions, I don't expect an "amen" after everything I say, but I do call things the way I see and experience them. I've read your posts, and have to say I agree with them for the most part. On the subject of rap we'll probably always disagree (although there are some I like, which I've stated before). I don't make it a habit of mindlessly rambling on here. Hope this finds you having a great day...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 07:38am


"if you can talk, you can rap."

If you can strum A, D and E major, you can play guitar.

"I don't think that probem exists much in rap."

Why not? Can you rap yourself, Gitarzan?

"There's a blatant lack of creativity in just about all genres nowadays"

Not at all.

"You honestly don't think there's a lot of little rappers sitting at the edge of their beds with their "Mr. Microphones" practicing because they love it, do you???"

I'm sure there are. I'm also sure there are a great deal of fat, greasy whitetrash teenagers staring at their Guitar Hero and desperately trying to ape their hero, Slash.

"One famous rapper once said "If I couldn't make a lot of money rapping do you think I'd be doing it?"...I think the vast majority think that same way."

Yeah, because this NEVER happens in rock or pop music! Thank god for musical and artistic puritans like the Beatles for pretty much bankrupting themselves for the good of art!

"Jack...these are my opinions,"

No, they're observations, and the fact of the matter is that these are wildly biased against rap music, evidently because you yourself are attached to your own guitar playing.

Posted by Jack H. on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 07:50am


"If you can strum A, D and E major, you can play guitar."

Nope, it means you can play A, D, and E maj. If you play, you know better than to make that kind of statement. Your definition of playing and mine are obviously different.

"Why not? Can you rap yourself, Gitarzan?"

As a matter of fact...I can. AND I can play my guitar at the same time. What's your point?


"Yeah, because this NEVER happens in rock or pop music! Thank god for musical and artistic puritans like the Beatles for pretty much bankrupting themselves for the good of art!"

Never said otherwise. It just seems more obvious in the rap/hip-hop industry. I guess that's my observation...

"I'm sure there are. I'm also sure there are a great deal of fat, greasy whitetrash teenagers staring at their Guitar Hero and desperately trying to ape their hero, Slash."

It's a video game...period. It won't help you be a guitar player. I'm aware of the fact that some people think otherwise...

"No, they're observations, and the fact of the matter is that these are wildly biased against rap music, evidently because you yourself are attached to your own guitar playing"

No, they're opinions. If I don't like a particular genre in particular, that's my business. I could pick apart just about any genre, it's just that this one is a little easier than most. Like I said before, I don't expect an "amen" from people when I speak...like some people on here do. As a matter of fact, I don't expect any agreement at all...because they are, in fact, opinions...






Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 08:17am


"Nope, it means you can play A, D, and E maj. If you play, you know better than to make that kind of statement. Your definition of playing and mine are obviously different."

No, technically I'm totally correct. Clearly you've just got some ridiculous double standard in place, which notifies me that this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. Goodbye.

Posted by Jack H. on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 11:48am


"No, they sound like the most excellent, drugged-out and tightest avant-rock band ever. And seen as how you called Rihanna "actually talented," I don't really think you have a leg to stand on whatsoever."--Liam

I never said BP wasn't talented. I feel I should at least make it through a song of theirs before passing judgment on an artist in terms of talent. But from the observations I've made so far, my descriptor fits. You know the Clyde The Camel noise that Ray Stevens makes? The lead singer sounds like that the entire time he's singing.

And Rhianna is talented. I'm sorry you can't hear it. But I'm not surprised, since you apparently enjoy the sound of donkeys braying.

"2. There is no "accepted parameter" for rock music."

Yeah there is. Otherwise there wouldn't be different sections in your music store between rock, blues, hip-hop, jazz, etc.

"Not at all. Most (not all) rap works on standard rock and pop structures and uses (borrows) the common instrumentation as much rock. It's solely the vocal delivery that marks the difference."

This is because rap is influenced by rock, just like rock is influenced by blues, country, and gospel. But just as we recognize distinguishable differences between blues, country, gospel, and rock, so too rap is different.

"Read up the page and you'll see my argument from this."

I did. And I reject it out of hand. This is still about the perpetuation of rock music. If it doesn't contribute to this, it doesn't belong.

"Umm, production is just as important as actual MCing in rap music. I take it you'd induct Flavor Flav and Chuck D without the rest of Public Enemy...which is wrong."

If that is what you read out of my statement, then you're illiterate. And on this very thread, I've said that every minute Flavor Flav continues to get TV exposure hurts the esteem with which Public Enemy as a whole is held. I'm pointing out the need to differentiate when an artist is truly the dominating factor of brilliance, or if it's the production/engineering that's doing it. To use the analogy, it's similar to why Phil Spector worked to keep the Ronettes off the ballot for as long as he did. He felt it was his handiwork, not the girls', that made the records great.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 12:51pm


Okay, you can strum A, D, & E...big deal!!! I play those same chords on a piano, but I'd never tell anyone I can play the piano. So, technically...you're dead wrong. There's no double standard, and you are thoroughly aware of that...you can either play or you can't.

Geez, you can't win an argument so you "take your ball and go home"? Everyone else is wrong, and you're always right? I wasn't aware that it was about being right or wrong, it's about valuing your own opinion enough to give it here without having the all-knowing "Jack" approve or disapprove of it. I've read what you've said about the Beatles...what's so different about that than how I feel about rap? I've always felt when it came to that you were entitled to your opinion, which I don't happen to share. Some rap I like, but most of it I don't, sorry you have such a time swallowing that. I think that it's a regression of popular music the likes that I've never seen before, but like I said before...when the big money stops flowing, we'll see who really loves to make music. That pretty much goes for all genres.

As for you, suit yourself. I've had great conversations with other people on this site. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if you completely ignored me. One of the most sincere traits of ignorance is being a "know-it-all" anyway...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 13:29pm


Philip...forget it. The only way you'll ever get along with that guy is if you totally and completely agree with him, which I'm aware that with you, it'll never happen. He's always going to have to be the last word...whether he knows what he's talking about or not. I don't know about you, but I'm not into "one-sided" conversations.

You and I have agreed to disagree a time or two, and I've always respected your opinion. I hope it stays that way.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 13:44pm


"You and I have agreed to disagree a time or two, and I've always respected your opinion. I hope it stays that way."

Well... I've never respected YOUR opinions cuz I know I'm always right!! You heard me, you... you.. um... PEON! lol Nah, it's all cool.

I'm still laughing at the playing of the racism card. That is small-mindedness at its most boorish.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 14:05pm


Watch yourself...I can always copy & paste a certain Olivia Newton-John video on here and DEMAND you watch it...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 14:21pm


I'll report you to the War Crimes Tribunal at the UN.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 14:47pm


Turn it up,bring tha noize!

Posted by S.R on Saturday, 02.7.09 @ 20:55pm


I am not especially a big fan of Hip Hop music, but like all genres of music, it has musical merit and redeeming qualities. Since Run DMC is the second Rap act to be inducted (and the 3rd nominated) I think it is pointless to bitch about Hip Hop being kept out of the Hall. It's too late!, lets just accept it already. With that said here is my prediction of who will go down as the 1st 10 Rappers inducted in the HoF:
1) Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
2) Run DMC
3) The Beastie Boys
4) Public Enemy
5) N.W.A.
6) 2pac
7) Dr. Dre
8) OutKast
9) Notorious B.I.G.
10) Eminem

Other possiblities include Afrika Bambaataa, Kurtis Blow, & the Sugarhill Gang

Posted by Jonny on Tuesday, 02.24.09 @ 12:59pm


Ok Jack. I'll take your litmus test of what is and isn't music and apply it to every rap song I've had the misfortune of hearing (they're all pretty much the same).

Is it sound?
Yeah, but so are my farts

Does it express ideas and emotions?
Ummm, sure if you can call them that

Does it have a rhythm?
In the same way pounding on an electrical appliance to make it work does I guess

Melody?
Heavens no

Harmony?
Not on your life, pal

Color?
Only color I can think of that applies to that garbage is brown. Nuff said.

"the HoF was only named the "Rock and Roll" HoF as a hookline."

Oh, silly me for thinking something called the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame would be about rock & roll. Good thing I have geniuses like you around to clear that up. I'll have to remember your words of wisdom next time I do something ridiculous like order a burger from Burger King.

"Rapping is as much a skill as playing any instrument."

WOW. Easily the most retarded thing ever said on these boards. I bet there's a strong correlation to the people who think rap is a legitimate art form and people who have never touched a musical instrument in their life.

Posted by Randy on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 04:06am


Yes. No Brainer.

Posted by Tommy on Monday, 06.1.09 @ 17:47pm


music is music. Rap and Rock alike, they can influence one another. anyone who has listened to rage against the machine, red hot chili peppers, and faith no more cannot deny that rap has had a major impact on rock and roll. If any rap artist has made an impact on rock and roll, it's public enemy. fight the power just screams rage against the machine influence.

what i wonder is that RAP is the genre that everyone wants barred from the hall of fame. Country and Reggae artists have made it into the hall. Not because they are rock artists, but because their music has influenced rock.

i don't like hip hop, rap, or R&B, but Public enemy deserves a spot in the hall of fame.

Posted by Justin on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 15:17pm


what i wonder is that RAP is the genre that everyone wants barred from the hall of fame. Country and Reggae artists have made it into the hall. Not because they are rock artists, but because their music has influenced rock.

i don't like hip hop, rap, or R&B, but Public enemy deserves a spot in the hall of fame.

Posted by Justin on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 15:17pm
--------------------------------------------------
Not necessarily. I for one have no issue w/rap making the Rock Hall, nor do I have any argument w/certain R&B stars making the grade.

More than anything else, I think the argument against the modern stars is more a reaction against the producer-driven creations that are whipped up, almost Frankenstein-like, in some anonymous studio. They are honed to perfection, given tons of money and backing, but the muzak they produce goes against the grain of anything resembling a human touch. Perhaps the best way to say it is that rock fans like to know the rough edges will sometimes show through. You can only sand a table down so much before you create an expensive pile of dust...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 19:22pm


Unless they change the name of the hall or make an "Outside Influence" category, Public Enemy should not be inducted.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 19:35pm


Not necessarily. I for one have no issue w/rap making the Rock Hall, nor do I have any argument w/certain R&B stars making the grade.

More than anything else, I think the argument against the modern stars is more a reaction against the producer-driven creations that are whipped up, almost Frankenstein-like, in some anonymous studio. They are honed to perfection, given tons of money and backing, but the muzak they produce goes against the grain of anything resembling a human touch. Perhaps the best way to say it is that rock fans like to know the rough edges will sometimes show through. You can only sand a table down so much before you create an expensive pile of dust...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 06.23.09 @ 19:22pm
--------------------------------------------------

your heavy usage of metaphors confuse me. i doubt you're trying to sway me to accept your point of view because i gather that you agree with me (that HOF can have rap inducted in it). and yet you disagree with me ( i deduced this from the "not necessarily").

from then on, i am completely lost, right from sentence one. who's arguing against modern stars? what, public enemy? they really aren't modern.

Posted by Justin on Thursday, 06.25.09 @ 02:27am


your heavy usage of metaphors confuse me. i doubt you're trying to sway me to accept your point of view because i gather that you agree with me (that HOF can have rap inducted in it). and yet you disagree with me ( i deduced this from the "not necessarily").

from then on, i am completely lost, right from sentence one. who's arguing against modern stars? what, public enemy? they really aren't modern.

Posted by Justin on Thursday, 06.25.09 @ 02:27am
--------------------------------------------------
When I stated "not necessarily, I meant it in response to your statement that rap is the genre everyone wants barred from the Hall.

You are right in saying that PE are not modern by today's standards.

What I said was in reaction to the notion that rap is a producer-driven medium. Unlike the Country or Reggae music forms you referenced, which are live band driven formats. Much of the complaining is in regards to figures like Madonna, Beyonce, etc., who are the products of teams of writers, engineers, and the like.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 03:44am


actually, most of the complaining I see is "Rap is not rock!!!!!! it's the rock and roll hall of fame" or worse "rap isn't music!"

granted, more intelligent people argue that they are "products of teams of writers, engineers, and the like." but those weren't the people i was responding to.

Posted by Justin on Friday, 06.26.09 @ 13:15pm


Too many people listen to PE as rock music. I've never been able to buy that, rock in its pure form is chokingly uninteresting; I'd much rather listen to It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back -- or any of their first four or so -- in terms of _early_ hip hop. Like that it's absolutely fascinating, Terminator X, Chuck D and Flav each pretty much unprecedented, whether it be the full-force-with-subtelty production, the paranoid politicised prose or the joyous freeform-ish solo/side-man spots.

And again, I'm shocked that there is any discussion about the most popular art form of the past two decades or so being included in this place, lest it be that it's far too good to be included in such an exclusive, favouritist, stodgy dive.

Posted by oosive on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 15:00pm


DJ Hero ...

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 10.31.09 @ 10:42am


I'm not a big fan of hip hop being in the RnRHOF, mostly because I believe the genre is so diverse these days it deserves its own hall.

But if one group deserves to get in, it's Public Enemy.

Don't believe the hype...

Posted by Ash on Thursday, 11.19.09 @ 00:48am


Yes. The "Bring the Noise" re-make with Anthrax created rap-metal, and they definitely gave hip-hop a conscience ("Fight the Power.") That alone is enough to get them in.

Posted by Sam on Tuesday, 03.2.10 @ 17:08pm


Public Enemy's "Fight The Power" is loosely based on the Isley Brothers song of the same name...only that version predates Public Enemy's by about 15 years and is every bit as socially conscious...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 03.2.10 @ 19:51pm


I haven't listened to the Isley Brothers. Even so, the rap-metal thing is enough to make them deserving, and I'm pretty sure they had other songs similar to "Fight the Power" and I know they're credited with being the first revolutionary hip-hop group.

Posted by Sam on Wednesday, 03.3.10 @ 20:16pm


For the 100th time: "Rock and Roll" does not mean "rock music". When are you people gonna learn?

Posted by denyo on Tuesday, 03.16.10 @ 22:51pm


Rock...short for "Rock & Roll"...period!!! It's been that way for as long as I can remember and I don't think anything (or anybody) will change that!!!

Where do you people get these hair-brained notions, anyway...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 03.16.10 @ 23:13pm


Allright, Rock... is short for "Rock & Roll" because Jimi Weissmüller said so. Now I'm convinced. Rock & Roll belongs to the white people, because they'd invented it, just as America belongs to the white people because it was promised to them by some ominous dude called "God" or something like that.

I don't really blame anyone for living in their own world. We all do that more or less.

Posted by denyo on Thursday, 03.18.10 @ 10:47am


Yeah, love you too.

Anything else?

Posted by denyo on Friday, 03.19.10 @ 17:06pm


Denyo, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the real Gitarzan talking

Posted by Milestones on Friday, 03.19.10 @ 19:32pm


Rock...short for "Rock & Roll"...period!!! It's been that way for as long as I can remember and I don't think anything (or anybody) will change that!!!

Where do you people get these hair-brained notions, anyway...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 03.16.10 @ 23:13pm

You and I have had some good conversations recently and I don't want to upset that, but Keith Richards said that the proper thing to do would've been to lock the doors after the Beatles were inducted, which means he's someone who views the two as different things. It's not just us Brits either, check out VH1 Classic's version of Seven Ages of Rock, Stephen Davis (an American journalist) says in Episode 1, "The Birth of Rock", that he feels that "1965 was Year Zero for Rock." I don't know, I've just interpreted rock as being exclusively guitar music (other instruments allowed, of course) and R'N'R having no specific definition and being the bastard child of many different things. Of course, if we assume that the two are mutually exclusive, then PE have plenty of R'N'R spirit (as part of the original spirit was rebellion) and in fact sound-wise have much more to do with Elvis and Chuck Berry than, say, Metallica or Blur or Pearl Jam (I like all three, so no offense.) Besides, don't you want to see all of Journey Nation piss them selves if "Bring the Noise" is played at a ceremony and not "Anyway You Want It."

Posted by Sam on Friday, 03.19.10 @ 21:34pm


Sam...my point is saying "Rock" isn't Rock & Roll would be saying "Country" isn't Country & Western...which it most assuredly is. If you watch a DVD set called "The History of Rock & Roll" (which leaves the Seven Ages Of Rock in the dust, in my opinion), it will leave no doubt in your mind that it all ties in together...it really is essential viewing for those interested in the entire history.

I think Keith Richards was trying to say that all of the really strong influences in rock & Roll ended with the Beatles, which I don't necessarily subscribe to...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.21.10 @ 08:23am


Fair enough. I'm definitely going to give that set another try. Is it divided into different sections like 7 Ages? Speaking of which, for all the flaws in the other episodes (The Stadium Rock episode was good for the way they approached but could've had improvement) the Art-Rock and British Indie episodes were near perfect in their coverage (okay, they had some flaws, but if there's anything you need to know about those types of music I'd watch those episodes. The Indie one in particular is very thorough and covers the timeline quite well.) Now playing: Blur, "For Tomorrow"

Posted by Sam on Sunday, 03.21.10 @ 21:22pm


Sam...it's divided into 5 DVD's, with 2 episodes per. The interviews are amazing, and they touch on everything imaginable (one of the more memorable statements was Gregg Allman saying "Rap...isn't that short for "crap"? Talk about blunt...LOL!!!). My favorite episode is called "Guitar heroes"...imagine that...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 03.21.10 @ 21:28pm


Good. I'm listening to an American punk documentary right now, broadcast on BBC 6 Radio. Hopefully that station can stay open, but it does need work.

Posted by Sam on Monday, 03.22.10 @ 18:37pm


WOW. Easily the most retarded thing ever said on these boards. I bet there's a strong correlation to the people who think rap is a legitimate art form and people who have never touched a musical instrument in their life.

Posted by Randy on Saturday, 03.14.09 @ 04:06am

So people who have played an instrument (even if for 5 seconds) have more credibility than rappers? By that logic, Alec John Such>Red Hot Chili Peppers and some other legitimate rock bands who incorporate rap elements (Such being a guy who's an average bassplayer, and has actually never done any songwriting.) The only retard in this equation is you. Sure, Jack/Liam is a bit stubborn at times, and there are times when he's been wrong, but he at least tells it like it is and is knowledgeable, which I cannot say for you. Tell us again why Foreigner and Journey deserve induction and PE doesn't, I could use a laugh.

Posted by Sam on Saturday, 04.10.10 @ 14:30pm


Okay, let me clarify that a bit and use another example. If there was a 12-year old down my street learning to play guitar (which there isn't) and he decided that rap sucked and then a professional singer who writes his or her own songs but doesn't play any instruments thinks otherwise, does that mean the 12-year old has more credibility on the subject than the singer? What a preposterous notion (I played classical music when I was younger for 7 or 8 years, so I certainly pass your litmus test and thus can say what I like on the subject.) So tell me, Randy: If you discovered Lou Gramm liked hip-hop would you suddenly hate him and destroy all the Foreigner stuff you owned with him singing? Well, of course you'd have no choice otherwise you'd be a hypocrite. You'd have to give him just as little credibility as you'd give, say, Massive Attack (who I'm listening to as I type this.) Your argument is ridiculous, in conclusion. However you don't seem to have the balls to respond when you lose an argument. Gitarzan is good for a conversation and it appears he can at least accept some of a rapper's place when he conveys originality (though it's still unclear how he feels about PE.)

Look, "The Rap Question" is getting out of hand. Obviously, there isn't a really correct answer as to what "Rock 'n' Roll" is anymore, seeing as Gitarzan and I could have a conversation about Rock 'n' Roll, and Chuck Berry, Prince, The Rolling Stones, Judas Priest, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Clash, Joy Division, New Order, Van Halen and Blur could all come into the conversation and all are generally accepted as "Rock 'n' Roll", even though they all sound way different. So obviously the "not Rock 'n' Roll" line no longer works when arguing against important hip-hop artists. Grandmaster Flash and Run DMC are in, and only those who don't like rap in any way are bothering to protest that; which goes back to the "not Rock 'n' Roll" thing, which as I said is a waste of time. As GF and Run DMC are two of the originals, the Hall is obviously not against inducting rap. The bottom line is this: From what I can tell, Public Enemy were as edgy and rebellious as your average rock group, and the "Bring the Noise" re-make with Anthrax was vital to the creation of rap-metal, so they have certainly influenced rock bands (Rage Against the Machine has performed with them.) Therefore they should get in. Not to mention they're probably very influential to other rappers. So: Yes to Beastie Boys, yes to Afrikka Bambitta (he was a first-waver as far as I know), yes to PE, yes to NWA (no doubt the creators of gangsta rap, but some people will question how much that has to do with rock), and no to the rest until they prove themselves (though I'm not sure where I lie with Tupac.) Plus, everyone seems to want Red Hot Chili Peppers to get in, and they rapped sometimes; a bit of a double standard there (they'll get in soon.) Rage Against the Machine will get in eventually and Faith No More might, and they also rapped sometimes. So, all of the above rap groups that I mentioned should find a place. End of discussion. If you have anything to hand please tell me.

Posted by Sam on Friday, 05.28.10 @ 19:52pm


Public Enemy is not a rock band, so no they should not enter HOF.

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 06.15.10 @ 21:23pm


Run-DMC and Grandmaster Flash are already in the hall of fame, so rap is already represented. Whether you like it or not, rap has been a very important genre to music in the past 20-30 years. The rock and roll hall of fame is not going to ignore it. Public Enemy, NWA, Dr. Dre, Tupac, Wu Tang Clan, A Tribe Called Quest, and all the other important rap groups will get in because they've innovated and influenced music. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame dosen't exclusively induct rock bands, they've inducted Madonna, ABBA, Bob Marley, etc. because they've been massively influential on music. So have rap artists. Many more rap artists will get inducted in the coming years, so don't complain because you can't deny rap's impact on music in general. Rappers have influenced some rock bands today. Don't deny artists place in the hall because of their genre.

Posted by Mitch on Tuesday, 06.15.10 @ 23:25pm


Perfect Mitch, absolutely perfect.

Posted by Sam on Wednesday, 06.16.10 @ 21:13pm


wow mitch thank you im black and i love hip hop and i also love rock,rap is 1 rock is 2. and i happy you said that cause im sick of the way people are dissing rap on here

Posted by John on Saturday, 07.17.10 @ 12:00pm


This year marks the 20th anniversary of the P.E. classic album "Fear of a Black Planet". In 2004, it was chosen by The Library of Congress to be added to the National Recording Registry. The only Rap album to be added so far.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Wednesday, 07.28.10 @ 16:00pm


The Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame is for artist who not only made great music for a long period of time but also still to this day can get on stage and put on a great show,also to be the kind of artist that twenty or forty years down the line when you talk about that particular field of music
is always brought up in conversation,thats Public Enemy not to mention making a huge statement with their music without much radio play and even less video play on tv.

Posted by Fred on Tuesday, 09.7.10 @ 14:10pm


The Hall of Fame has decided, and rightly so, that rap is a rock and roll sub-genre. Public Enemy is one of the greatest rap acts. I expect them to get in one of these years.

Posted by Timothy Horrigan on Wednesday, 11.10.10 @ 21:33pm


Rap has nothing to do with Rock and roll.
But that dosen't change the fact that rap deserves to be in, it's not really a rock hall as much as a music hall with a prefrence for rock, if were gonna exclude everything that isn't rock then bye bye Dylan, Cash, all the soul groups and so on...

Posted by GFW on Saturday, 04.9.11 @ 16:07pm


I agree, but it should be exclusive. Johnny Cash was a country artist, but he transcended that and was just as much rockabilly. His work had to do with rock and also impacted rock. Same thing applies here. The rap that has either broken new ground, influenced rock or touched upon rock is the kind that should be inducted. Under that criteria Grandmaster Flash and Run DMC were correct calls, and Public Enemy should go in as well if you've done the proper research.

Posted by Sam on Thursday, 04.14.11 @ 12:04pm


I don't get why critics cream themselves over the "message" of this band, if a white guy made songs calling black people inferior he'd be ripped to shreds by them but when chuck D supports someone like Louis Farrankh who says that Jews are evil and whites are devils, it's "revolutionary"

Posted by okay on Saturday, 04.23.11 @ 18:41pm


Run-DMC and Grandmaster Flash are already in the hall of fame, so rap is already represented. Whether you like it or not, rap has been a very important genre to music in the past 20-30 years. The rock and roll hall of fame is not going to ignore it. Public Enemy, NWA, Dr. Dre, Tupac, Wu Tang Clan, A Tribe Called Quest, and all the other important rap groups will get in because they've innovated and influenced music. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame dosen't exclusively induct rock bands, they've inducted Madonna, ABBA, Bob Marley, etc. because they've been massively influential on music. So have rap artists. Many more rap artists will get inducted in the coming years, so don't complain because you can't deny rap's impact on music in general. Rappers have influenced some rock bands today. Don't deny artists place in the hall because of their genre.
------------------------------------------------
I absolutely agree with everything you said. Not only that:

-They were a big influence on Rage Against the Machine (poltical stances and Zack's "come on!"
-Kurt Cobain really loved these guys (rock star)
-NOFX likes these guys
-Trent Reznor mentioned them in album credit
-Scott Ian of Anthrax loves these guys

They invented rap metal with Anthrax. Really one of the two most important hip-hop/rap groups of all time. You can hear their influence almost everywhere. Chuck D is a genius, plus his in-your-face MCing with Flavor Flav's wild bursts of randomness is the perfect combination. Without any shadow of doubt they should be in

Posted by DogJay88 on Saturday, 11.5.11 @ 00:51am


Every arguement the rap haters have tried to make against rap have been debunked over and over again. Only those who hate rap fail to see that. Public Enemy should and will get in. They accomplished more musically than most.

Posted by Killah Sith on Saturday, 12.10.11 @ 14:10pm


Not true. Do I believe that more hip-hop acts will get into the Hall? More than likely. Am I necessarily pleased at this? Doesn't really matter, since this Hall has become more about pop music than anything else.

Could they have created a real Rock & Roll Hall of Fame? Absolutely. Had they done so, hip-hop wouldn't have made the cut, as it is primarily pop music, w/a few exceptions (thinking the Roots in modern times). As it stands, the Hall has been accepting rappers for a few yrs. now, so I've no doubt you'll see more than a fair share make the grade.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 12.10.11 @ 19:26pm


Wow, reading back through this thread... I don't hold quite as strongly the opinion I previously expressed. I'm still not behind Jay-Z or Ja Rule getting in even though they're probably inevitabilities. Eminem I'd be cool with now. I was never against PE getting in.

A little gem though, from my debate with liam:

""I tried listening to the Birthday Party a few times, and I'm sorry, I can't make it through one of their songs. They sound like a Tijuana-style donkey show taking place in a Ford motor production plant during the day shift (pre-recession labor cuts, that is)."--me

No, they sound like the most excellent, drugged-out and tightest avant-rock band ever. "--liam

I still stand by my original assessment. And my honest opinion is that if they have to be drugged out to make that kind of music, then either that kind of music doesn't need to be made, or they shouldn't be the ones to make it. And if one has to be drugged out to "get their music", then there's nothing TO get in the first place.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 12.10.11 @ 20:15pm


Philip - I actually like your description of the Birthday Party, the difference between you and me though is that I find a band that sounds like that to be a good thing. ;)

Posted by DarinRG on Saturday, 12.10.11 @ 20:40pm


Fair enough, Darin. I tried to give them a chance, but that level of cacophony, with little to no trace of euphony is just impossible for me to listen to, let alone enjoy.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 12.10.11 @ 21:43pm


"Wow, reading back through this thread... I don't hold quite as strongly the opinion I previously expressed. I'm still not behind Jay-Z or Ja Rule getting in even though they're probably inevitabilities. Eminem I'd be cool with now. I was never against PE getting in."

Jay-Z. Definitely. The Blueprint, The Black Album and Reasonable Doubt are all classic hip-hop albums. An institution of hip-hop.

Ja Rule? In no universe imaginable. Apart from a couple of years in the early 00s as the leader of murder inc. and a couple of hot collabos, when has this guy ever been relevant in the grand scheme of things? A blip in hip-hop history.

Posted by rockstar23 on Sunday, 12.11.11 @ 02:35am


First-year nominee- will it make it in on the first try?

Posted by JR on Thursday, 10.4.12 @ 09:25am


The Hall invalidates itself by putting in Public Enemy before Anthrax and Slayer. The fans will always regard the Hall as terminally prejudiced against White musicians in rock and metal if P.E. and NWA get in. Especially if both Deep Purple and Rush are not inducted but Public Enemy and NWA are.

Posted by Neckbeard on Wednesday, 10.10.12 @ 14:57pm


The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame inductees who would vote for Public Enemy

Beastie Boys, Guns N' Roses, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Metallica, RUN-DMC, Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, R.E.M., U2, Blondie

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 11.13.12 @ 09:03am


Anthrax has never been thought of as one of THE great bands of our time, though- Slayer's had more critical success than Anthrax, but it's not like it's enjoyed U2- or Radioihead-like acclaim. Public Enemy, on the other hand, is regarded as one of the best of its genre (it's not just about rock music, remember) and is regarded as one of the most influential.

Posted by JR on Tuesday, 11.13.12 @ 10:30am


Do you think it will be only Flava Flav and Chuck D getting inducted or will they also induct Terminator X?

Posted by Ryan on Sunday, 11.25.12 @ 16:24pm


Terminator X was mentioned in their R&R Hall of Fame bio page so I think it's safe to say he'll be inducted alongside Flava Flav and Chuck D.

Posted by Tim on Monday, 11.26.12 @ 02:24am


I'd want them to induct Professor Griff and the Bomb Squad as part of the group as well, but that's probably not gonna happen.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 11.26.12 @ 17:50pm


@Roy - Bruce Springsteen name-dropped It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back in his SXSW Keynote speech last year. Don't be surprised if they had wider support than just that...

Posted by Jonah on Tuesday, 12.11.12 @ 14:36pm


Deserved. The Hall's starting to build themselves quite the little Hip-Hop wing.

Posted by Chalkie on Tuesday, 12.11.12 @ 19:31pm


Chuck D., Flavor Flav, Terminator X, Professor Griff and DJ Lord mentioned in the Rock Hall bio for Public Enemy, but the inductees have not been listed yet.

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 01.16.13 @ 11:49am


"Deserved. The Hall's starting to build themselves quite the little Hip-Hop wing."

Why should THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME have a hip hop wing?

Shouldn't it have a British Hard Rock and Heavy Metal wing? No. Why do that? Clearly Public Enemy has been more influential on rock and heavy metal than Motorhead or Judas Priest.

Or God Forbid, a Progressive wing? With bands like King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Rush and the like. No, gotta have Public Enemy in.

People don't think Public Enemy "rocks." Even the fans. How could you put them in before a legitimate, top tier rock act with decades of longevity and legions of rabid fans like Slayer or KISS?

This is not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. This is Jann Wenner and Dave Marsh's Record Collection. This is the See How Hip I Am Hall of Fame.

"Uncool" acts like Bon Jovi, Cheap Trick, KISS and Steve Miller Band get passed over for the "cool" acts like Public Enemy every time, regardless of the sense it makes for a ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME.

How is Public Enemy First Eligible Year, First Ballot worthy when a band like Black Sabbath got snubbed 8 times, 6 of those times consecutive? Is Public Enemy that much more important to the history of Rock and Roll than Black Sabbath? Really, people? Somebody defend that baffling decision.

Posted by Neckbeard on Sunday, 03.3.13 @ 12:25pm


"Deserved. The Hall's starting to build themselves quite the little Hip-Hop wing."

Why should THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME have a hip hop wing?

Shouldn't it have a British Hard Rock and Heavy Metal wing? No. Why do that? Clearly Public Enemy has been more influential on rock and heavy metal than Motorhead or Judas Priest.

Or God Forbid, a Progressive wing? With bands like King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Rush and the like. No, gotta have Public Enemy in.

People don't think Public Enemy "rocks." Even the fans. How could you put them in before a legitimate, top tier rock act with decades of longevity and legions of rabid fans like Slayer or KISS?

This is not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. This is Jann Wenner and Dave Marsh's Record Collection. This is the See How Hip I Am Hall of Fame.

"Uncool" acts like Bon Jovi, Cheap Trick, KISS and Steve Miller Band get passed over for the "cool" acts like Public Enemy every time, regardless of the sense it makes for a ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME.

How is Public Enemy First Eligible Year, First Ballot worthy when a band like Black Sabbath got snubbed 8 times, 6 of those times consecutive? Is Public Enemy that much more important to the history of Rock and Roll than Black Sabbath? Really, people? Somebody defend that baffling decision.

Posted by Neckbeard on Sunday, 03.3.13 @ 12:49pm


Flavor Flav is in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Stevie Ray Vaughn is not. This has to be some kind of cruel joke.

Posted by kbg on Saturday, 05.18.13 @ 23:33pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwAtxRtO4RU

Spike Lee and Harry Belafonte induct Public Enemy. Induction video not included yet.

Posted by Roy on Monday, 07.8.13 @ 07:05am


This right here is why the Rock and Roll HOF needs to be changed to "Music" HOF or something similar. No problem with their induction, but people will argue, not only about Public Enemy, but about many names that are in (and that will be in sometime down the road), as to what genre they "technically" qualify for.

Posted by CP on Thursday, 07.18.13 @ 16:17pm


"Popular Music HOF" might work better, or else you'd have to include ALL forms of music, which is a hell of a lot.

Posted by GFW on Thursday, 07.18.13 @ 17:06pm


Its current name is completely appropriate. The problem is not with the hall, it's will commenters who aren't knowledgeable enough to know that RnR's history end evolution is broader than their own record collections and contains important artists who are of different races that the commenter.

Public Enemy's first ballot induction into the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame was appropriate and well deserved.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 07.18.13 @ 19:03pm


I'd argue Hip Hop isn't Rock N Roll.

That said, the hall has never been about strictly rock music, so it doesn't really matter. Not letting an deserving act in because of the name of the hall would be daft.

Posted by GFW on Thursday, 07.18.13 @ 20:24pm


Shut up, GFW.

Posted by DarinRG on Thursday, 07.18.13 @ 22:26pm


gab dat to my mug m8, not online, and see wot comes about

Posted by GFW on Friday, 07.19.13 @ 07:08am


Leave your comment:

Name:

Email:

Comments:


Security Question:

Which letter is Springsteen's band named after?
 

Note: Emails will not be visible or used in any way, but are required. Please keep comments relevant to the topic. Any content deemed inappropriate or offensive may be edited and/or deleted. Basically, this sums up our policy.

No HTML code is allowed.




This site is not affiliated with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum.