Coven

Not in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

Eligible since: 1994 (The 1995 Induction Ceremony)

Previously Considered? No  what's this?

Coven @ Wikipedia

Coven Videos

Will Coven be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?
"Musical excellence is the essential qualification for induction."
   

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1745 comments so far (post your own)

COVEN MUST BE ADDED

Posted by swann on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 16:44pm


Put Jinx Dawson and Coven in the Rock Hall of Fame!
Jinx Dawson is a pioneer of rock metal with out Jinx & Coven theirs no Black Sabbath, Dio, King Diamond, Alice Cooper, Kiss and so on. She is only responsible for the biggest thing in metal music today the "Sign of the Horns"! Hails to the band & music! Shes got the most beautiful powerfully wicked voice and the Coven band wrote and created some of the greatest songs! Theyre rock metal history and they deserve to be reconized for being one of greatest ever! Jinx Dawson is the Goth Queen, she should be inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame. Coven blazing a path for so many others like Ozzy Osborne,Gene Simmons,Ronnie James Dio,and so on. Considering Black Sabbath and so many others are just a copy of what she had started and wasnt allowed to finnish cause she was a girl!
She responsible for enviting a whole scene in music rock metal today!
Give Jinx Dawson & Coven thier due!
Someone at the RHOF need s to look into tis vital matter more closely!
Jinx Dawson & Coven Rock Metal Pioneers!
Please & Thanks for listening,
Ry Judson

Posted by Ry Judson on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 23:59pm


Please stop now. Yeah, they may have been the first to be photographed using satanic symbols and I will agree that Jinx had a beautiful voice, but they had nothing to do with Sabbath. Sabbath's influence was Birmingham, England and how they grew up. There sound was created because of the accident that Tony had.

No one cites Coven as being a major influence on them; not Sabbath, Cooper, Dio, any of them. They are nothing more than a footnote; a good footnote, yes. But still a footnote. Thank God for the Billy Jack Movie.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 07:49am


Dameon...why did you have to bring up that "Billy Jack" song??? That's as bad as me bringing up the "s" word!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 08:06am


Just trying to show Ry Judson some respect. I mean, it was pretty cool that he would bring up Jinx. But then he went and said that Sabbath wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Coven which is ridiculous.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 08:48am


I hear ya, Big Daddy!! I thought one of you were going to get onto me for bringing up 1910 Fruitgum Co.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 09:26am


I loved the 1910 Fruitgum Co.

Now if I can just remember who did "Yummy, Yummy, Yummy", I can die a happy man.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 10:00am


Dameon...try the Ohio Express...don't ask how I know that...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 10:57am


Excellent

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 11:48am


Coven with lead singer Jinx Dawson most assuredly
did have a great influence on the other metal bands at the time...I was just a freshman in High School back then and I can remember EVERYONE listened to COVEN including all of the guys in the up-coming bands which played what we called back then "Heavy Metal". They included Black Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, and more. While Black Sabbath was in Birmingham England at the time does NOT mean that COVEN, then under the Mercury Records Label was not listened to over there. If you think they were not, then you know very little about the underground version of Satanism both in america and abroad which seems to be the true case.....

Posted by Druwydion Pendragon on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 15:33pm


Maybe with theatrics and appearance, but their music sounded a little more psychedelic than metal. "One Tin Soldier" was about the furthest thing from metal I can think of, but I guess it did become THE war protest song.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 16:56pm


Coven is definitely one of my favorite rock bands of all time. I spread their gospel throughout western Pennsylvania for five years. They were the first to do the horned hand sign that everybody is doing now. Jinx is a true witch of the dark side. Comparing them to Black Sabbath is a joke . . . Coven was for real . . . Black Sabbath was just an act. It can be summed up as this: Coven was more than a band . . . They were a real Coven . . . a product of the turmoil of the late 1960s and a child of Sumerian magick beyond anything that's happening today in music.

Posted by Matt Flash on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 17:03pm


"Maybe with theatrics and appearance, but their music sounded a little more psychedelic than metal. "One Tin Soldier" was about the furthest thing from metal I can think of, but I guess it did become THE war protest song."--Gitarzan

Are you kidding? That song TOTALLY taught me to hate my neighbor. Everyone blames the churches or the schools for kids learning to hate, but for me, this song did it. It gave me permission to go ahead and hate my neighbor and to cheat a friend... two freedoms I now regularly exercise. Thank you Coven! I may not make music, but you're an influence to me, all the same!

Posted by Philip on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 17:24pm


First off - if I am not mistaken, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown beats all of them as far as stage theatrics and who may or may not have been first.

They were the first to do the horned hand sign that everybody is doing now.... Matt

My Grandmother from Sicily who came to this country at the turn 20th century outdates all of them in using the horned hand sign. Therefore, this point is useless.

Comparing them to Black Sabbath is a joke . . . Coven was for real . . . Black Sabbath was just an act.... Matt

And what exactly does this mean? We are talking music here. Musicially, Coven has minimal influence.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 18:34pm


Philip...calm down!! Take your meds and don't strangle your neighbor (he might owe you money)!! Come to think of it, I'm not crazy about my neighbors, either...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 19:17pm


As long as you don't live next door to me, I recommend using piano wire.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 20:36pm


YES! Jinx & Co. BETTER be inducted! They created "Black Metal" 13 years before Venom even coined the term!

Posted by Lawton on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 18:34pm


What on earth is "Black Metal"??? Another crazy sub-sub-genre??? Considering they've been eligible for 14 years and never considered, I'd have to say chances are slim.

There have been some good arguments put forth, though...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 18:38pm


Black Metal was invented by another obscure band called Cromagnon in 1968. Coven invented (or co-invented) doom-metal. As far as influencing all those other bands, I'm not sure Coven did. However, this doesn't change the fact that they did it FIRST. They certainly deserve a place in the Hall of Fame. I doubt they'll ever get it, though.

Posted by Albert Mond on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 08:46am


Black Metal, Doom Metal, etc...!! It all adds up to a bunch of zillionares preaching doom & gloom and sucking up to the devil...NICE!!!!

As the line in an old song goes..."How low can you go?"

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 09:13am


Let's not bash some of the metal sub-genres - you have to know about them first. The problem is musical, namely what is the real difference between them? I'll admit to having an interest in this, while at the same time having little actual knowledge of what's going on in the metal underground. I'm way out of the picture in terms of what's going on now. The last time I had any real interaction w/ truly underground metal, it was copying some songs from a group called Terrorizer. They were an off-shoot of Napalm Death (so I was told) and this was back in (get ready to LOL!)... 1992. Yes, it's been a while, but I'm still interested. Do me a favor and break down these sub-groupings if you have a minute to spare.

As for Coven, they definitely sound interesting. They seem to have hit upon the same ideas at roughly the same time as Sabbath. I will say this: it may be regrettable from a sexist standpoint, but I think we all know in 1969/70, between a man & a woman breaking through w/ the same ideas, who would've received credit first. Something should be mentioned about this in the official heavy metal timeline.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 05:13am


Jinx Dawson and Coven were the first to use the sign of the horns on stage and on thier first album " Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls ", thus making it the first time the sign of the horns were ever indtroduced into Rock and Roll. They deserve to be Inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame for being the Pioneers that started it all.. They Deserve to be reconized for what they did, and still do, and what so many other bands took from them and tried to make it thier own.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 08:45am


Jinx Dawson and Coven should definitely be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame! Their use of the Sign of The Horns was the first of its kind, and at the time, it was very innovative to have a female lead singer of a band in this genre.

Posted by Lady Vamp on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 10:19am


Their use of the Sign of The Horns was the first of its kind, and at the time, it was very innovative to have a female lead singer of a band in this genre. (Lady Vamp)

With all due respect; none of the reasons you give have anything to do with the music they released. And the music they released is not HoF worthy. No musicians that I know cite them as a major influence.

As I said before, My late Sicilian Grandmother (RIP)taught me the sign when I was 5. It is called the maloichia (I have no idea if I spelled that right). My sweet and lovely 90 year old Mama will still do it now and then. I think she did the sign at a Sinatra show at the old Paramount back in the 40's. Maybe my Mom influenced Metal.

I love you Mama!

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 12:08pm


The sign of the horns is called " mano cornuta " and it is used by Italians yes, However, When Coven used the sign of the horns ON STAGE before and after every concert, and on the " Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls " album, and every album after that, It was the first time that it was introduced into Rock and Roll. But it is also a Gesture from " Secret Societys " Coven and Jinx recieved Threats for making certain things open to the public.. If you had Any knowledge of underground metal, then you would know this.
Coven were the first of thier kind.. Not only a band But a practicing Coven..and if it were not for Coven and thier genious, There wouldnt be any of the Dark Music out there today..They are the original, and there will never NEVER be another band to be as original as Coven.
Hail Jinx Dawson and Hail Coven!

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 13:33pm


With all due respect; none of the reasons you give have anything to do with the music they released. And the music they released is not HoF worthy. No musicians that I know cite them as a major influence.

As I said before, My late Sicilian Grandmother (RIP)taught me the sign when I was 5. It is called the maloichia (I have no idea if I spelled that right). My sweet and lovely 90 year old Mama will still do it now and then. I think she did the sign at a Sinatra show at the old Paramount back in the 40's. Maybe my Mom influenced Metal.

I love you Mama!
Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 12:08pm
__________________________________________________

Everyone listened to Coven, you can tell the influence from Black Sabbath To Stevie Nicks, Edge of Seventeen sounds almost a lot like Blood on the Snow.. and if you were stealing from someone or taking something that someone was doing and making it your own.... would you want it to be known that there was someone else out there doing it? I think not. Do proper research... Look at Covens first album cover and compare it with Black Sabbath's Inlay, Looks very much alike, except Coven did it with more Class..

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 13:39pm


I don't really care what they were. Band, coven - who bloody cares?

would you want it to be known that there was someone else out there doing it? (St. Jimmy)

Why not; most other bands admit who and where they got their chops from. That is why it is called influence. Example: Steve Jones admits to ripping off Johnny Thunders. Kirk Cobain stated that he wanted to sound like ther Pixies. Just about everyone is influenced by something that came before them.

Look at Covens first album cover and compare it with Black Sabbath's Inlay, Looks very much alike, except Coven did it with more Class..
(St. Jimmy)

What does album covers have to do with anything? Let me let you in on a little secret. If you look at album covers from various eras, you will see similarities in a lot of them. More than one band has gone to the same artist.

Metallica's "Black" album. Should we say they ripped off Spinal Tap and if so, does that mean that Tap should be inducted?

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 15:14pm


Metallica did though however say that they got the Idea from Spinal Tap for that Album. I am stating that you say no one cites them as a influence.. The album cover from Coven to the Black Sabbath inlay I would say show's A LOT of influence, that is one example. Just because they do not cite it dont mean that they were influenced.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 15:37pm


First off, Dameon . . . you make a good point with the way artists borrow from each other. . . . After all, rock music was an expression of the people . . . like the traditional folk music performed worldwide. Obviously, influence plays a major role in rock music too. However . . .

This is REALLY about who was the FIRST in creating music with a shameless connection to diabolism, Satanism, black magick, etc.

Dude, you cannot deny it. And insofar as the horned hand sign is concerned, Coven were the first to do it in a ROCK format. Anton LaVey flashed the sign for the pic found on "The Satanic Bible" from 1969. But he wasn't a rock artist.

I think you need to chill the f*ck out, bro and stop kissing Dio's ass. Do you here me? Am I talking loud enough? Shave and go home you lightweight . . .

Posted by Matt Flash on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 17:47pm


I think you need to chill the f*ck out, bro and stop kissing Dio's ass. Do you here me? Am I talking loud enough? (Matt)

First - I am not a fan of Dio. Second; who gives a crap about a hand sign? I love Jinx and I enjoy listening to Coven, but they are not RnR HoF worthy. But then, what the f*ck do I know.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 23:51pm


The hand sign is a part of it, It goes with what Coven stood for, what they represent, who they are and most importantly Coven did the sign first before any other Musicians out there. People are getting more and more turned on by Coven each day. They influenced a lot of bands, even if not cited as a influence.

Coven is deffinatly RNRHOF worthy than some of the musicians that get put in, that are not even rock and roll, or those that are major sell outs.
Coven are Pioneers, and thats why they were added to the future list. Trust me and Believe me, when I say the " hell " you literally have to go to get someone on a list like this. This is a Big step to getting Coven the Recognition they deserve. and SO what if they dont get inducted this yr, or next, Being on this list is recognition... But then again you never know.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 00:11am


"Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll."

Rock and roll is more than just music right? its a way of life isn't it? so then you gotta take into account all the 'added extra' that comes with a band like Coven, look at the theatrics/action that come with black metal bands some deadly serious, some not so, but both reason enough for someone to want to pick up a guitar and get in on the action.

On the other hand, though Jinx and Coven more than deserve the recognition, I personally don't think they need it, for me they don't need a pat on the back from someone that probably doesn't really get it in the first place, but thats just me being precious.

Satanas vobiscum!

Posted by Ordo Ad Chao on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 13:15pm


What about Screamin Jay Hawkuns in the 50's doing the whole macbre routine with coming out on stage in a coffin,skulls etc.
Then Screaming Lord Sutch nicked his act and was dong the macbre theatrics.

No hand signs as far as I'm aware, Coven musicially has more in common with The Mamas and The Papas,The Seekers than anything heavy.
Lyrically their first,and last efforts had the satanic lyrics.
They aren't well known/remembered (other than as a one hit wonder) becuase their music ( Iown their albums) was average-medocre rock.
Sabbath were better musicians,had better songs.

Posted by Billy Boy on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 16:06pm


It was not about Theatrics, its about who was the first to bring satanic, diabolic, dark arts to rock and roll. There is no denying that fact. Screaming Jay Hawkings was about Theatrics.. Comparing Coven to the Mama's and Papa's is a rather Odious comparision, Though the Mama's and Papa's were a great band, however Coven were Original.. They were Dark and very Heavy for that time, Releasing music that no one dared to touch at that time, you have to remember, at that time, it was peace, love, happiness, but that wasnt the case everywhere.. Covens music is about the darker side of life, it wasnt Boy meets girl, they fall in love and blah blah blah, like most of the music released at that time.. They Had themes that scared everyone or turned them on to them.

And comparing them to sabbath is also Odious, Sabbath was a Act... Nothing more, I am a Sabbath fan, but there was nothing original about them.
No matter what anyone says, Coven had more influence on Sabbath than it is known..There was nothing satanic about sabbath, Thier songe were about the opposite of that.. that came from Geezer Butler on the Black Sabbath Story Vol. 1... where they also mention, not by name, but by actions .. Coven and meeting them in 1970... those that are aware of that story, know that it was Coven..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 18:29pm


Why don't you go wank off on a goats head or upside down crosses. No one really gives a shit whether Coven kissed the devil's naked ass. Their music is and was nothing to be remembered. See if you can understand this word. The word is "MUSIC".

Check out AMG; do you know who they list as similiar artists: Vicki Lawrence, Melanie, Godspell and Maureen McGovern. (I think that says it all). I like Jinx, but get bloody serious here.

I don't care what subject matter they were singing about, the melody and tone of their music was relatively artsy and mellow. The influence on Sabbath was the city of Birmingham.

Now there is another band who went by the name of Coven in the 80's and 90's. They are labeled as a Death Metal band - a very bad one.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 06:27am


[blah-blah-blah:] Why don't you go wank off on a goats head or upside down crosses. No one really gives a shit whether Coven kissed the devil's naked ass.

[MATT FLASH:] I bet you wank off to Ozzy Osbourne's naked ass.

[blah-blah-blah:] The word is "MUSIC".

[MATT FLASH:] Yeah, the word is "MUSIC". . . . And Coven played good music.

[blah-blah-blah:] Check out AMG; do you know who they list as similiar artists: Vicki Lawrence, Melanie, Godspell and Maureen McGovern. (I think that says it all). I like Jinx, but get bloody serious here.

[MATT FLASH:] Yeah . . . so AMG has the last word on the whole thing. They're entries are rampant with misinformation. But you're an idiot (ad hominum attack) so you wouldn't know.

[blah-blah-blah:] The influence on Sabbath was the city of Birmingham.

[MATT FLASH:] Hey, I like Black Sabbath a lot, bitch. But they're already in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Posted by Matt Flash on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 10:28am


I was and am being serious,
Maybe I should move to dirty ol Birmingham to find some Inspiration and Influence.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 11:43am


The Sabbath/ Coven album covers are both influenced by old horror movies.

Sure she did some things first,should get some credit but she's making it like Coven invented way too much.
Getting kind of pathetic for a woman pushing 60.

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 16:31pm


It ain't going to happen,very doubtful.
There's artists that sold huge amounts of records and were very influential and are cited regularly by other artists that can't even get in/nominated.
Coven might be deserving to get into the hall of fame for bringing in the satanic schtick (yeah I know Jinx thinks she's a witch etc) but musically in all my yrs. of collecting which is about 30 I've never once read anyone citing them as an influence.
Their lyrics had satanic lyrics,but they music was subpar-average early rock.
Nothing special.
They're mainly remembered for One Tin Soldier, and Jinx Dawson being a hot piece of ass back in the day.
I own the Coven catalog,it's not horrible.

Too all the little my space kiddeos who worship satan and buy into her (and others) bunk about satan she's genius.
It's a gimmick, if she's a real witch surely she would of been able to "cast a spell" etc that would of brought her long lasting fame and a successful career.
She tried other musical styles, she couldn't get arrested.
Now it's time to play up the satan angle again via the internet.

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 16:33pm


[BOBBY:] Coven might be deserving to get into the hall of fame for bringing in the satanic schtick (yeah I know Jinx thinks she's a witch etc) but musically in all my yrs. of collecting which is about 30 I've never once read anyone citing them as an influence.

[MATT FLASH:] DO YOUR RESEARCH:
1968-Coven performed their full Satanic Rock Opera on many concerts with bands as the

Yardbirds, Deep Purple, a glam Alice Cooper, the Who, Small Faces, etc.
1969-Coven's 1st album released with gatefold & full Black Mass,all dark arts themed songs &

members doing "Sign of the Horns" on back cover.
1970-Rolling Stone Mag Lester Bangs Review of Sabbath verified Which came first-The Coven or

the Sabbath.
1970-Sabbath's 1st single in 1970 was a redo of a "Crow" song published by Coven's

publishing company, Yuggoth Music.
1970-Coven & Black Sabbath play The Whiskey, LA on same bill, Coven with full Satanic Gothic

Stage Show & Sabbath with no Dark Arts trappings nor affiliations.
1970-Coven turns down the Casablanca record deal which demanded full face makeup that KISS

would later become.
1970-Coven shares manger & rehearsal hall with Zappa & Alice Cooper.
1971-Coven 2nd album with members doing "Sign of the Horns" on cover & the biggest selling

war protest recording, which was a "movie title song", not a Coven project per se.
1971-Zappa's film 200 Motels cited Coven as influence.
1972-Zappa's album "Just Another Band from LA" mentions Coven and their Witchcraft.
1974-Coven's 3rd album "Blood on the Snow" had the demon doing the "Sign of the Horns" on

the cover & members doing the Sign in their 1974 video.
1975-Coven drummer Steve Ross asked to join Dio band.
1999-In book "Lords of Chaos"King Diamond sites musical influence as Jinx & Coven.
1999-"Lords of Chaos" sites Coven as 1st dark pop culture influence & the seeds of the rise

of the Heavy Metal Underground.

Some of the many References:
Books
1.)The Second Coming 1970
2.)Witches USA 1971
3.)The Occult Explosion 1972
4.)Satan Wants You 1988
5.)Lords of Chaos 1999
6.)Lucifer Rising 1999
7.)The Witch Book 2002
8.)Gospel of Filth 2008
Magazines
1.)Rolling Stone
2.)Cream
3.)Terrorizer
Radio Interviews,etc
1.)WNYU Radio
2.)KISStory, Chapter 1

Posted by Matt Flash on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 17:53pm


I dunno know.
When I think "Heavy" (as in sounding for 1968)Coven never once spring to my or my friends mind when discussing heavy music.
Blue Cheer,Vanilla Fudge, yes.
Coven?
Hell no!
Even with the satanic lyrical claptrap of "Witchcraft" the music sounds like a made for T.V. movie from the late 60's -70s.
The "spooky" mass sounds like it was recited by Gary Owens from Laugh -In = "Un Spooky" )unless you're twelve)
The s/t second album is run of the mill straight ahead boogie rock,with Dawson's vocals being the highpoint.
I like that album matter of fact.
Sabbath,Dio never made claims they did the horns first,they were much more high profile so it became associated with them.
Alice Cooper is a well known horror movie fan,he incorporated that into his act via Arthur Browm.
Coven?
Oh them! the band most often on the "bottom" of the bills that almost 40 yrs later are still crying they invented sooo much.
Jeez,fine they did the horn hand sign first,the music sucked.

Posted by Beezelbub666 on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:02pm


"Posted by Matt Flash on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 17:53pm"

Matt,that's cool you posted all that info. and yes I was aware of much of it.
But, your info. doesn't really give "many" examples of a band/artist citing them as a direct influence etc. other than King Diamond...
It's just examples of who Coven shared bills with,knew,other bands mentioning them (not as an influence per se...
The Crow song "Evil Woman" was also a HIT for Crow,so it's not an uncommon pratice for an other band to cover a hit song.
Hey,I'm sure Sabbath borrowed much from Coven,there's bands that got the satanic routine ten times removed from Coven,yet Coven did it first.
You're obviously a HUGE fan so keep rawking with Coven and enjoy the music.
Still doubtful they'll ever even be considered for the Hall Of Shame,um Fame.


Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:19pm


Matt Flash-
BTW that's an intereting tidbit about Steve Ross offered too drum for,I'm guessing Elf.

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:26pm


bows to Matt Flash.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:28pm


Steve Ross he was asked to play for RAINBOW in 1975 . . . which at first had some members from Elf until Ritchie Blackmore fired them.

Posted by Maett Flash on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:38pm


"Steve Ross he was asked to play for RAINBOW in 1975 . . . which at first had some members from Elf until Ritchie Blackmore fired them.

Posted by Maett Flash on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:38pm"
Thanks.
Ah,it was Rainbow.
I know Blackmore fired all of Elf except (obviously) Dio.
The orig. drummer Gary Driscoll died a few yrs back.

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:52pm


Actually, the first band to do "backmasking" (subliminal messages in songs) and use the "Il Cornuto" sign was the Beatles.

Who's to say it was "part of the act"? Some people didn't think so...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:57pm


"Actually, the first band to do "backmasking" (subliminal messages in songs) and use the "Il Cornuto" sign was the Beatles.

Who's to say it was "part of the act"? Some people didn't think so...
Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 18:57pm"

You're correct,and also correct in making the point "who says it was acting".
Aftrer Altamont and Manson and all the weird things that went down many chose to go underground with their personal beliefs.
BTW The beatles Yellow Submarine album cover displays an animated John Lennon "throwing the horns" in 1968.
I guess The Beatles nicked that from Coven as well.
lol

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:08pm


Okay, we can all agree that Coven used the horn sign first, not counting my Grandmother. We can also agree that lyrically, Coven dabbled where not many had gone before. And we can all agree that Jinx was beautiful, bewitching and vocally better than adequate. The melody of the music itself was more flowery than heavy, but it did have an edge to it. And I think many of us can claim to owning some if not all of their vinyl releases with some exceptional artwork on the cover.

But none of this gets them into thr HoF. I have done as much research as one can in a 15 minute span and could not find more than a couple of quotes from other musicians that cite Coven as a major musical influence. They did not innovate anything new. Granted, they may have been the first to sing about devilry or the very dark side of life, but it is not like they created the characters of Satan and fellow demons/witches. And there music certainly did not cross-over to the point where we can say they helped perpetuate the artform.

At least with Sabbath, we can say they innovated a somewhat different sound, even if it was only due to the fact that a freak injury took the fingertips of Iommi which caused him to tune down the guitar, hence the deeper sound.

All the respect to legion of Coven fans, but I just don't see them meeting the criteria for induction.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:15pm


Hey gitarzan - by the citing the Beatles here, you may very well draw the anger of some here who actually think the Beatles were nothing more than a glorified boy band.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:19pm


"Dameon"- You put into words my exact thoughts.

They're just a footnote really,for many an important footnote perhaps, but not RRHOF material.
And besides Coven @ the expense of who, Captain Beefheart?
C'mon

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:23pm


If you listen to the following three Coven songs, to me they were heavily influenced by Big Brother & The Holding Company....

-Washroom Wonder
-Dark Day In Chi Town
-Shooting Star

I'd hear this stuff on the college campus near where I grew up...a beatnik club called "Belly Of the Whale" had a night set aside for it.




Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:27pm


http://members.aol.com/beatlefreak87/images/beatles%20-%20yellow%20submarine%20(characters).jpg

Lennon throwin the horns,plus crazy Charlie Manson listened and Namechecked their Whie Album.
Me thinks they got da Coven beat

Posted by bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:27pm


Dameon...I think you and I know better...LOL!!! It really is amazing how complex they really were...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:29pm


"Dameon...I think you and I know better...LOL!!! It really is amazing how complex they really were...
Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:29pm"

And Bobby!

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:33pm


Bobby...good call!! It's one thing to say your music is "satanic" and flash the horns, etc..., but it's another to have your music so closely associated with what most people who were aware in the last half of the 20th century considered the "true embodiement of evil"

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:46pm


Coven? Seriously guys. I thought I would read up a little on this band since there's been so much discussion but allmusic.com doesn't even have a bio on them, and they have a bio on EVERYONE!!! So, I say no, they will never make the hall of fame, and I can only hope the discussion ends here.

Posted by AlexM on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:47pm


"Bobby...good call!! It's one thing to say your music is "satanic" and flash the horns, etc..., but it's another to have your music so closely associated with what most people who were aware in the last half of the 20th century considered the "true embodiement of evil"
Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:46pm"


Agreed, Now seeing The Beatles Yellow Submarine cover makes me ponder perhaps a young Ozzy Osbourne(a confirmed Beatles fanatic)viewed Lennon throwing the horns(if he even knew it was in fact that)and Ozzy was emulating Lennon simply because he thought it looked cool.

Posted by Bobby on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 19:57pm


First off, I LOVE The Beatles, however if you look closer that is a cartoon drawing of John Lennon, and if any of you have seen The Yellow Submarine film, you would know that it is the LOVE gesture, its through parts of the film.. The John Lennon Debate is done and over with, Research more. and BTW that album well soundtrack came out in 1968. Just before the White Album.

Second.. When I read about Coven / Big Brother and the Holding Company..
When Coven went to release the 2nd album the record company did not go for the dark arts that was introduced into the Withcraft Album.. SO the band went on to do the Bluesy Chicago sound they had done before.. Hence making Coven 2.

And what does Uncle Charlie have anything to do with this? Charles Manson was Photographed holding Covens first album from Esquire Magazine with Article " Evil Lurks in California, and Lee Marvin is Scard. " The whole Uncle Charlie refrence goes to The Beatles. Nothing to do with Coven what so ever.

3rd. Yes Jinx Dawson was and still is a very attractive woman, however, it is rude to say what was said about her. " Jinx Dawson being a hot piece of ass back in the day. " and for your information, She still is.. oh and yes she is a TRUE blooded American Witch of the Black Arts.

Is it so hard to actually sit down and research the proper way? I guess so, anyways your gonna go, its all going to point at Coven.

And I have ALL of you to know, that I am the one that got Coven on this list.... and even before they consider putting people on a list like this, they check FACTS... yes they have Fact Checkers, just like magazines. it shows Obviously that none of you know the facts, and are willing to Accept that Jinx Dawson and Coven were the ones that started Heavy Dark Art Gothic Music. Jimmy Page even was quoted Citing Coven as the bringers of this style music. Jinx and Coven Ruled then, Now , and will forever more.. I guess its hard to get through into your minds, that just because you are not Cited as influence dont mean you were never influenced at all. And is it so hard, to comprehend the fact that a Woman, is responsible for this style of music?
I take my leave for now.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 20:24pm


There's a reason why the definitive book about the Mansons is called "Helter Skelter"...Maybe you should research that.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 20:39pm


St. Jimmy - You finally bring something to the table that I can get my teeth into (No pun intended). And since you are a hard core follower, I will not even try to make like I know as much or more than you about Coven. I would love to see or read the article where Page cites Coven. If you can lead me to a link where I can read that, it will certainly go a long way as far as I am concerned.

Coven did not influence Sabbath. Geezer Butler was awestruck by people standing on line waiting to see a horror movie and some dream he had. And until this story can be disproven, it is the one I am sticking with.

Putting a band on this sites list means nothing. If a fan/contributor requests it, the Great and Powerful Oz of FutureRockHall reaches into his goodie bag and makes it happen. It doesn't mean that the site agrees with a bands induction.

And finally, why would anyone call that slime pig/rapist/murderer Charles Manson, Uncle Charlie?

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 20:50pm


And that has what to do with Coven?? not a thing.. oh and I have read Helter Skelter.. such a bore, if you want the " Definitive " book try "The Family" by Ed Sanders.. you might learn something. oh and "Manson in his Own Words" by Neil Emmons.. there are 2 sides to every story.
But in all due respect it has NOTHING to do with Coven.

and why all this Coven / Sabbath comparison?? 2 totally different bands in many ways..

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 20:51pm


Exactly...the Manson situation had nothing to do with Coven, but A LOT to do with the Beatles. Furthermore, I'll take what the guy who had to go into a courtroom and face Manson down day after day says over about anyone...he, I don't know, HAD to have his facts straight!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 21:04pm


"Manson in his own words"...now there's a fountain of misinformation. If you wrote a book about every time Manson has changed his story about those events, you'd have a whole library!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 21:08pm


~St. Jimmy ~ ...You have to admit that this had created some pretty good and lively conversations about influence, social impact, etc...These are the kind of group discussions that you can learn about a whole bunch of different stuff from, even if it's a difference of opinion. That's what makes it fun, because it's ROCK & ROLL!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 21:19pm


The reason for Sabbath alwasy being brought up is that various Coven fans have brought up the link and the influence Coven had on Sabbath;

Ry Judson, Druwydion Pendragon. And Matt Flash stated earlier that comparing Coven to Sabbath is a joke because where as Sabbath was an act, Coven was a real coven.

Now about about that Page interview I asked about. I am really interested in that.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 21:20pm


Dameon...I'm sure you probably know this, but Page actally owned Boleskin House, which was previously owned by Aliester Crowley. Now that was one bizarre cat...LOL!!!! I've heard part of "The Song Remains The Same" was filmed near there.

I think that's more than a passing interest in the occult on Page's part!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 21:30pm


"Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 20:51pm"

Yeah it's cool by me you're "so into" a band,but the "Uncle Charlie" reference has left a bad taste in my mouth.
Those were horrible murders of innocent people.
To want to refer to Manson in a playful way as Uncle has revealed your level of taste,class.
Now go to the Coven my space and bow at the alter of a 60 yr'old has been (never was) who thinks she's a witch.
Maybe you can woo her,mustn't be too hard at this point.

Posted by Randy on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 23:32pm


Posted by ~St. Jimmy~
"Second.. When I read about Coven / Big Brother and the Holding Company..
When Coven went to release the 2nd album the record company did not go for the dark arts that was introduced into the Withcraft Album.. SO the band went on to do the Bluesy Chicago sound they had done before.. Hence making Coven 2."

At that point in time there were many bands doing the satanic gimmick and raking in money,especialy Sabbath.
So why didn't Coven ride what you/they claim invented if they were so faithful to satan.
P.S.- if you're gonna make an impression on a 60 yr old woman woo her with denture grip,and being she's a witch you need to say "thy" alot more in convos.
Just saying...

Posted by Randy on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 23:41pm



Check out this site:

http://www.geocities.com/jinxincorporated/

That is certainly being true to your wican soul. Merchandising up the arse.

And really, let's move away from this Charlie Manson thing. The guy and his followers were a bunch of deranged kooks. Maybe they should have set fire to the lot of them instead of locking them up.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 05:30am


Lot of talk about this Jinx & her Coven. Obviously they were one of the first ever to try this whole "dark" image thing, but it really doesn't seem to stand up. I'll try to touch on all the diff. posts I see here.

Don't be too hard on the "scary sounds" concept. Since few had tried it, nobody realized that it would have sounded rather foolish. Let her off the hook on that one.

As for the whole Beatles/Lennon chuckin' the horns thing, that strikes me as a pile of crap. The Beatles always said they liked children & wanted to do things for them. I don't think they'd turn around and mean anything nasty in regards to "Yellow Submarine".

In reality, Jinx had a staggering chance to go down as immortal in the rock universe, and she missed it. It was around this time I believe that Jim Morrison actually married a witch in some kind of ceremony (Wicca?). Now if she had gotten to ol' Jimbo before the other lady did, then you'd have had something. They could have even toured:

"Now presenting: The Doors to the Coven"

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 05:37am


Gitar & Big D -

You know that Boleskin House is located on the shores of Loch Ness. In fact, Crowley claimed that his magic actually summoned up the Loch Ness Monster. Allegedly, Crowley's ghost haunts Boleskin (lmao!).

You've got to admit, that's pretty awesome. I can picture Page, stoned beyond belief, staggering about this place trying to contact Crowley. Then, after laying down some pyrotechnic riffs, you go outside... the sun's setting over the Loch... you've put in a hard day's work...

so what do you do?

break out the guitar, crank the amps past the threshold of all known pain, and try to summon up the Loch Ness Monster!!!

There will never, ever, EVER be a better rock & roll scenario than that... EVER.

BTW, in regards to the ghost part, I say just this -

"Dr. Venckmann, Dr. Stanz, Dr. Spengler... paging Dr. Venckmann, Dr. Stanz, Dr. Spengler...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 05:48am


"As for the whole Beatles/Lennon chuckin' the horns thing, that strikes me as a pile of crap. The Beatles always said they liked children & wanted to do things for them. I don't think they'd turn around and mean anything nasty in regards to "Yellow Submarine".
Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday

I pointed out the Beatles Yellow Submarine album "cover" (not the film or them flicking peace signs in it)which does look like Lennon throwing the horns,again whether intentionally(doudbtful) or just that it looked cool.
A young Ronnie James Dio(another confirmed Beatles fan growing up,I actually meant him in the first place instead of Ozzy although he was huge Beatle fan himself)might of been emulating g Lennon,not to mention the fact it's displayed in the movie The Godfather.
I'm not saying this is fact,I'm not saying it means anything other then in 1968 (the same year Coven were doing the horn thing) there was IN FACT A HIGH PROFILE (now famous)ALBUM "COVER" in the racks that has an animated John Lennon throwing the horns.
Lennon's fingers are in the correct postion, two middle fingers down,pinky-index out,thumb crossed over.
MANY more aspiring rockers/people saw this picture then obscure footnote Coven's album cover/concerts.
The Manson point was brought up because Coven/Dawson claim the pic of Manson holding their album cover made Mercury records take the album off the market and this in turn helped ruin their success.
K,perhaps Mercury was creeped out and did so.
But yet Capitol records who released The Beatles White Album had no such problems despite the fact Manson was using their lyrics as his roadmap to murder in the press,and his killers actually namechecked Helter Skelter (in blood no less) on one of the murder scenes that was shown in the press/T.V.

The Sabbath comparisions come from all (the few)Coven fanatics.
Plus of course Dio was/is in Black Sabbath and known for the horns sign,so how could it not be addressed during this debate.

Also- Coven did not COMPOSE,nor RECORD the FIRST version of One Tin Soldier.
It was done by The Original Caste.
Therefore Coven did not record the biggest war protest "first".
They had a version that was the hit.

Posted by Bobby on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 08:47am


"Check out this site:
http://www.geocities.com/jinxincorporated/
That is certainly being true to your wican soul. Merchandising up the arse."

Holy(sorry unholy)shit!
I hope Jinx/Coven only produced that junk in small quantities,lol
Does they really think they have "that" many fans (even with the newcomer,kiddies into satan)that are really going to buy a Coven tote bag at $30.
Lmao.

Posted by A Casual Observer on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 08:54am


This really has nothing to do with Coven, but just in case there are some casual observers out there that thinks this Satan stuff is cute, have a good read:

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,422748,00.html


I am sure this is not what Coven was all about.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 09:02am


"Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 09:02am"

It's sad (pathetic really) that there's so many lost souls that don't have enough of their own personality/identity that they feel the need to latch on to the satanic bunk/personas as a source of belonging.
Some walk away (when they grow up) unscathed ,others like you pointed out commit horrific crimes and kill innocents.

Posted by A Casual Observer on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 10:45am


Now go to the Coven my space and bow at the alter of a 60 yr'old has been (never was) who thinks she's a witch.
Maybe you can woo her,mustn't be too hard at this point.
Posted by Randy on Monday, 09.15.08

P.S.- if you're gonna make an impression on a 60 yr old woman woo her with denture grip,and being she's a witch you need to say "thy" alot more in convos.
Just saying...
Posted by Randy on Monday, 09.15.08


Oh how easy it is for fools to slip into petty insults from the safety of the Internet. How witty and proud you must feel.
Prick.
Just saying...

Posted by Ordo ad Chao on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 13:52pm


I happened to work with a few members of Coven around the late 1970's early '80's.Jinx had a
great house in LA with alters, skulls all over the place, always lit with candles and a studio and rehearsal room set up for her friends(And I understand Coven House in the early 70's was even more wild).And these are just some of the music people I saw that were at her door to stop in to jam and hang out.George Harrison, Ringo Starr, Michael Monarch(Steppenwolf), Bob Ezrin(producer Alice Cooper,Pink Floyd),Roger Taylor,Brian May(Queen),Glenn Cornick(Jethro Tull),Dick Wagner(Alice Cooper),Angel,Michael Desbarres,Amet
Ertegun(Atlantic Records president),Jon Lord(Deep Purple), Steven Tyler,and more.Believe me, she had a lot of influence on musicians and music and does practice magick.And is quite a classy lady.I ran into her last summer.She was 57 and did not even look 40.She loves music but doesn't quite care for the music biz.But she would love all this repartee.

Posted by studiomusic on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 14:34pm


I find all the insults a bit funny, and that on my character and taste.. ha
Yes yes yes we are all aware of the Girls use of the words of The Beatles.

In the 70s before formed Rainbow, Dio was at the Rainbow Room everynight where Coven had the Main booth, Where Dio saw Jinx Dawson Use the sign of the horns.. So I think that comes into Play where Dio got the sign of the horns from.

"Emboldened by the experience, Blackmore decided to leave Deep Purple and form his own band around Elf, effectively taking it over minus their guitarist and renaming it Rainbow. The name of the band was inspired by the Rainbow Bar and Grill in Hollywood that catered to rock stars, groupies and rock enthusiasts."

And Dio stated that he wanted to have a Connection with his fans like Ozzy did during the Sabbath years.

"These accounts are all predated by the Chicago-based psychedelic-occult rock band Coven, led by singer Jinx Dawson, whose 1969 back album cover for "Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls" on Mercury Records pictured Coven band members giving the "sign of the horns" correctly and included a Black Mass poster showing members at a ritual making the sign. Starting in early 1968, Coven concerts always began and ended with Jinx giving the "devil's sign" on stage. Interestingly Coven toured on the bills with many groups as Jimmy Page's Yardbirds, the then glam rockers Alice Cooper and the Vanilla Fudge, featuring Carmine Appice, older brother of Vinnie Appice of Dio. Incidentally, the band also recorded a song called "Black Sabbath," on their 1969 album and one of the band members is named Oz Osborne, not to be confused with Ozzy Osbourne of Black Sabbath fame. The horns became famous in metal concerts very soon after Black Sabbath's first tour with Dio."

And the One Tin Soldier - WAS NOT A COVEN PROJECT, Jinx asked that Coven be listed, Tech, it was a SOLO PROJECT Recorded by Jinx Dawson, that became the number one anti - war anthem of all time.. Yes it was recorded first, HOWEVER when they wanted it on the Billy Jack film, They wanted a Strong Womans Voice, and Jinx said she would record it. They wanted Linda Rondstant to do it but she had to decline because she was going to be on tour.

And the refrence to the Coven store.. So what, they have the right to set the prices as they see fit. The prices are moderatly set as those that would be set in ANY music shoppe.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 14:56pm


"I happened to work with a few members of Coven around the late 1970's early '80's.Jinx had a
great house in LA" Posted by studiomusic on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 14:34pm

She was attractive,they wanted to shag her,big deal where are all her "friends" now?
Michael Monarch! wow there's a name from the past.
He got fired from Steppenwolf during their heyday by John Kay and he never did anything anyone remembers since.
Kind of like Jinx/Coven.

Posted by Bobby on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 15:49pm


"Oh how easy it is for fools to slip into petty insults from the safety of the Internet. How witty and proud you must feel.
Prick.
Just saying..."
Posted by Ordo ad Chao on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 13:52pm

Ditto,it goes both ways.
You can mouth off with your idle threats that you might otherwise not be so quick to do in person.

Oh I see we have a slow starter...
It's "thy prick" to you.
Fun satanic convo skills (for upstarts)
Try to use words such as "thou,thy" as ofeten as possible.
The more you sell you're a true believer of the black arts, the better your chances of nailing the witchy woman.
Just saying...

Posted by Randy on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 15:57pm


"I find all the insults a bit funny, and that on my character and taste.. ha "
Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 14:56pm

Do you ever have your "own" info./words or are you only capable of cutting/pasting what info. you dug up off the internet.
I ask this because you are very longwinded with "your" thoughts,yet never seem to relay anything a serious music fan didn't already know.
I'm guessing your very young and are excited you stumbled upon the "big" Coven expose.
Fact is nobody really cared about the group back in the day (except for a small legion of fans) and the same goes for today.
I guess it's some sort of underground hip chic to namecheck they were the first to throw the devil horns etc.
Nobody gives really a damn it seems.
Even in the early days of Black Sabbath and the early days of metal Mercury records didn't bother reissing the Witchcraft album to recoup their initial investment.
They didn't smell money because there was zero demand.
Coven are okay with me,I have been collecting obscure bands for nearly 30yrs now.
I just think the satanic trappings are cheesy and I was surprised Jinx Dawson was attempting to trade off a failed project/gimmick 40 yrs later.
She had a great voice,she just never made it.
All her big name musician friends never had her sing on a session,produce her,really do anything with her of note.
She lost her family's house in a sheriff's sale.
Where were all the "big name" friends then...
Not mocking her,it's just not a big deal that a young attractive woman would have names hanging aroundin the the same business.
In the end no one helped her and she has to ram it down people's throats via her my space how important Coven were.
Some goth kids maybe will buy this,no one else seems to be.
Not RRHOF worthy,they'll never get in.

Posted by My 2 cents on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 16:15pm


It is amazing that such an obscure band like Coven would cause such a commotion.

As many have said before, all you fanboys keep doing is wave your horn sign flag around like that is something magical and mystical. It is a friggin hand gesture that was taken from a bunch of old Italian's. No one cares because it has nothing to do with Influence, Innovation or perpetuation of squat.

And as My 2 cents stated; all those named musicians were just probably seeing who could bang her.

So Jimmy; enjoy Jinx and her past. But she is never getting in, with or without Coven. Hell, Warrant has a better chance of induction than them and that is pretty sad.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 16:26pm


"And the refrence to the Coven store.. So what, they have the right to set the prices as they see fit. The prices are moderatly set as those that would be set in ANY music shoppe."
Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 14:56pm

The point went over your head.
(I guess you have two of those horns I'm asuming being demonic and all,hey whatever.)
The one poster was pointing out not the price of the merch. ,the fact that it was rather un wican to be selling.
The other poster was commenting he hoped the Coven store didn't manufacture the cheesy merch in bulk as they most likely don't have enough fans that are going to purchase tote bags etc.
Let em sell it for whatever they want,they doubtfully will recoup their investment.
No one cares enough.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 16:27pm


Yep,
if everyone respected Jinx and her talents so much why didn't they utilise her services in any way...
Produce a solo album,something/anything.
Heck Led Zep signed Maggie Bell from Stone The Crows and gave her a shot on their Swan Song record label.
Jinx might be a very nice person,but I think actions speak louder then "hanging out" @ her house.
I'd venture to guess the behind the scenes scuttle butt among her peers was "she's hot,but a flake with the satanic stuff" and they went along with it just to checkout the scene,perhaps for a laugh,out of curiosity,or they figured a flakey chick might be easy.
Maybe she had good drugs...
Bottom line again,no one aided her in her time of need that was a big name friend with session work etc.

Posted by Bobby on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 16:54pm


Yep,
if everyone respected Jinx and her talents so much why didn't they utilise her services in any way...
Produce a solo album,something/anything.
Heck Led Zep signed Maggie Bell from Stone The Crows and gave her a shot on their Swan Song record label.
Jinx might be a very nice person,but I think actions speak louder then "hanging out" @ her house.
I'd venture to guess the behind the scenes scuttle butt among her peers was "she's hot,but a flake with the satanic stuff" and they went along with it just to checkout the scene,perhaps for a laugh,out of curiosity,or they figured a flakey chick might be easy.
Maybe she had good drugs...
Bottom line again,no one aided her in her time of need that was a big name friend with session work etc.

Posted by Bobby on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 16:54pm


I state nothing but facts.. you want facts, but when its presented, treat the presenter with a slap in the face when we can back up what we say.

And BTW Jinx is not Wiccan.

My Father worked for Various record companies in his life time. 60s - 90s until his retirement, and his passing not to long ago, I grew up in this scene, Know most of the people. I know the facts. Something that none of you are willing to accept.

And when it comes to the whole Satanic Themes, you know NOTHING of Real Satanism. All you go by is what the Media tells you that is true. a TRUE Satanist would not have done what was done in that mentioned article.

So what if she lost her family home, She was devoted to her father, and took care of him when he was sick, She didnt get to when her mother passed. It is high Honor in the LHP ( Left hand Path ) to Honor thy mother and Father. That is why she left that life behind.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 17:06pm


Jimmy

And you still haven't given one reason as to why Coven should be inducted. All you do is list facts that do not pertain to anything except her possible lifestyle and who she may or may not have known or done. I am sure she was a great daughter. Therefore your arguement has no merit, much like Coven's possible consideration into the HoF. And really, no one cares about Satanism except Satanists and wannabes.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 18:30pm


~St. Jimmy ~ ...There's a lot of us who have had a great deal of exposure in and around the music industry. If I state a "fact", I'll state it in such a way (dates, places, etc...) that leaves very little room for doubt. Otherwise, I just give an opinion, which people can debate all they want...it's good fun actually.

Outside of "One Tin Soldier", most people don't even know anything about Coven. If they went off of that song, they'd think they were just another pop band. They didn't make much of a bang on the music scene in general, from my point of view (and my point of view is at least important to me). Jinx is an obvious vocal talent with great range...I would've enjoyed hearing more from her over the years.

As for the satanic stuff, I really don't think ANYONE really knows what they're getting into with it, and it's better left alone. The world has enough evil in it.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 18:52pm


Jimmy-
Being your a person of exact dates/facts where's the info. about Jimmy Page namechecking Coven's importance ?

Posted by My 2 cent worth on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 19:13pm


Jimmmy-
You can tell me your Jerry Wexler's love child in hopes of impressing.
This is the internet,it don't mean anything as far as credentials.
Fine she's not a Wican.
It wasn't a mockery her losing her home (actually kind of sad) it was meant as a counterpoint to the poster's comment that all these "big name" people hungout @ her house and her influence.
I asked "where were they then when she was down on her luck?"
Where are they now?
Considering she was rubbing elbows with one of musics (then)biggest movers and shakers Ahmet Ertegun how come he didn't sign her to a deal?
A man known for smelling money/talent.

Resolve:
The drugs/good times were gone so were her "big name friends".
A minor footnote in the history of rock.
They (as far as we know) the first to throw the horns onstage etc (what a genius contribution to music)and have satanic lyrics.
Give Coven the fickle finger of fate award I say.
RRHOF?
Get serious.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 19:15pm


I love this band.The singers voice is perfect for their esoteric themes.I'm sick of sappy love songs, dance pop, rap and loud growling.

Posted by sexysadie on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 22:12pm


Well, If you are going to post something like
"She lost her family's house in a sheriff's sale."
you should post the reason why... and I know it wasnt a mockery, I was simply pointing out that you need to be relevant when you post like that.
And I really dont care whether or not you believe me or not. I have the proof and my fathers Archives to back me up.

And when it comes to the Jimmy Page Article, Do proper research, you will find it, may I suggest Rocks Back Pages for startes, will find Tons of Info there. But be prepared to pay a membership fee.. cause browsing through those archives isnt Free. and the Article Does exist, should teach you how to do proper reasearch than oh what was it...12 or 15 minutes?


We Post Facts and proof of Influence, but I do not understand why its not sinking in heads. Most of you have a problem realizing that just because you are not cited as a influence dont mean they never were influenced by at all.. There are tons of musicians out there that dont name all influences. I look at my Madonna nude poster, and it influnces and inspires me to wank on occasions. lol .. now that that is cited. So madonna inspires me to wank whoopidy doo. And then the bands that do Cite them, you still dont comprehend that either. Matt Flash gave you 2 in his post.. Frank Zappa and King Diamond. and TONS of books to look into for other information. Its all about Arguments and such.. and posts that have nothing to do with Coven at all..

And I read that " who cares about the satanic thing " or whatever, Well My reply to that was simply, " A True Satanist would not have done what was done to those " or whatever I typed.

And as Druwydion Pendragon stated, they had more influence as known. Unless you were there or around those Musicians at the times, you dont know how it was, who influenced who and such, unless you were there.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 23:10pm


Oh BTW here is a new band that Cites Coven, and there are more. SO they must be still doing something right.

Blood Ceremony, who's CD just Dropped. 2008



Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 23:36pm


Jimmy...you're not credible because you don't furnish any proof...no specific articles or quotes whatsoever!! I've got issues of Guitar Player and Guitar World going back years. There are all kinds of interviews with Page (where he discusses more than just playing), and he never once mentioned that group...ever!!! I said in a previous post what he did talk about, but the burden of proof isn't on me. You're the one making all these claims with no specific facts or proof to back it up. If you can't come up with that, you may as well not say anything or just say you're giving "opinions".

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 07:19am


I am new to Coven.Found out about them through King Diamond and him borrowing some of their lyrics.I think their songs and singer sound very sensuous-Black Swan is now my favorite song-Sex ,drugs, rock and roll-Isn't that what music is all about? I just don't find Ozzy or Dio very sexy-Do you?

Posted by badgurl on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 08:37am


Jimmy- I'm sure I'm much older then you.
Matter of fact I remember and still have all my orig. issues of Cream,Circus,Zoo World,Hit Parader I bought as a kid (out of the rack for 75 cents,not 30yrs later on E-bay)and outside of a very small (if that at all) comment about One Tin Soldier or a small album review Coven were pretty mich ignored.
Percieved as a novelty/one hit one wonder.
I also have many rock encyclopedias,rock bio. etc and Coven is never mentioned.
In Led Zep's Hammer Of The Gods book =No Coven.
In Aerosmith-Dream On bio. =No Coven.
And on and on.
Fine people "hungout" @ their house,did drugs with them etc.
When it came to the "real" nitty-gritty of recording them,employing Jinx's services no one called!
I understand plenty about "influence".
I remember former deceased N.Y. Doll mentioning how he saw a Johnny Thunders lookalike in almost every metal band during the 80s-90s.
They all had the big teased black shag Johnny sported in the early 70's.
Most never heard of Johnny Thunders,nor "knew" where they nicked the look from.
Point being yes, Jinx/Coven did some things first.
Most (if not all) were not/are not aware it was from them.
Now with the internet and "fanboys" such as yourself you seem too think it's this big "revolation".
Nobody cares and they will never be more than a small footnote in music.
Sure some obscure band from god knows where in Europe can cover a song by them ,after reading about them in Lords of Kaos.
Those bands most likely wont ever be known either except to a very small legion of goth people.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 08:40am


Btw Frank Zappa had all kinds of freaks,groupies hanging around.
So he gave them a namecheck because he wanted (or somebody) wanted to shag Jinx.
Out of all the HUNDREDS of musicians that have passed through Zappa's many bands did any of Coven or Jinx get an offer to be an actual member,record with him.
No.
This thread made me regret getting rid of Coven's Blood on the Snow album about 25yrs ago.
I picked it up sealed (I kid you not) for 59cents sealed in a now defunct record store cslled Music Den.
I could of sold it on E-bay for a nice profit to one of these kids!

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 08:50am


One more thing such a "talent" needn't rely on or ride someone elses coat tails as to prove they were important/relevant.
If the "music" (not the gimmick)was so great it would of stood the test of time and been much more high profile then posting pics on their My Waste page showing them mingling with known people.
As if to convey "I was sombody,REALLY I was!"
It reeks "desperation",as do most things on My Waste/Space.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 08:56am


In fact Zappa does mention Coven in 2 albums and in his film 200 Motels.Coven did not want to record with other bands.Coven was one of the most SUBVERSIVE bands in the late '60's, therefore it was hard for them to get their material out at all.Others borrowed bits and pieces to keep their record deals.

Posted by badgurl on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 09:12am


Zappa also gave recording contract to a bunch of groupies known as The GTO's who had no musical skills what so ever.
A "namecheck" in a song equates nothing more in a song (especially a Zappa song ,who I really enjoy)as nothing important.
Zappa would spew out ANYTHING from VD-LSD in his lyrics.
He knew em,so...
How does this make them "important".
Coven went with what suited their need @ the time.
The satanic imagery was new ,they rode it (sure it was suppossed sincere),it bombed.
They then did a total about face and recordeda generic blues based boogie rock album.
It is only remembered for the inclusion of the hit One Tin Soldier.
Which as far as anyone can see a total compromise of their beliefs and being "the most SUBVERSIVE band".
Then they attempted another pop/rock (somewhat) satanic final album Blood on the Snow that bombed.
Jinx moved onto new wave unsatanic music that no cared about.
Sounds like a blantant sellout to me.
Now 40 yrs. later it's time to play up their "influence" (which they did,to a very small degree).
Hey,more power to em,RRHOF?
COME ON!
Jeff Beck still isn't in the RRHF as a solo artist.

Posted by Bobby on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 09:51am


Ooops I meant Aerosmith's Walk Thi Way bio.
Dream ON was Cyrinda Foxe's Aerosmith book.
Have em both,forgot the proper title.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 10:15am


Well lets see you can purchase Blood Ceremony's album.. or visit the myspace page to look at the influences... That should have been easy to figure out.

www.myspace.com/bloodceremony

and Also the list goes on with bands / musicians Signed and unsigned that cite Coven and or Jinx Dawson as a influnce. would you like a list of those too?

I will post again Matt Flash's books and Magazinrs in which a few are listed on his post. With Coven are cited. You will find Interesting Information in those books.

www.nyu.org has interviews for download. if you are interested I can search the archives for the proper links so you can listen.

Books.
1.)The Second Coming 1970
2.)Witches USA 1971
3.)The Occult Explosion 1972
4.)Satan Wants You 1988
5.)Lords of Chaos 1999
6.)Lucifer Rising 1999
7.)The Witch Book 2002
8.)Gospel of Filth 2008

Magazines
1.)Rolling Stone
2.)Cream
3.)Terrorizer

Radio Interviews,etc
1.)WNYU Radio
2.)KISStory, Chapter 1

Posted by Matt Flash on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 17:53pm

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 14:07pm


www.wnyu.org
Click on Archives, then go to Febuary 2nd.. The Show is Plastic Tales from the Marshmallow Dimesion. That is the Jinx Dawson Interview.


August 18th
Plastic Tales from the Marshmallow Dimesion.
Coven Interview.

I tried to post the links but it said it looked like too much spam.

Posted by ~ st. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 14:29pm


I listened to some of the interview. That is a few minutes I will never get back in my life. And she is full of sh*t with the hand sign being part of a secret society. It is an old Italian curse or anti-curse depending on how and why it was done.

Coven is a minor footnote in music history. But I admit that it is a nice one. But they do not deserve HoF induction.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 15:28pm


Sad but true it is a Sign in Secret Societys. Most, but Deffinalty those of the LHP.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 15:41pm


"and Also the list goes on with bands / musicians Signed and unsigned that cite Coven and or Jinx Dawson as a influnce. would you like a list of those too?"
Jimmy-

I notice you're very good at never answering the actual questions asked,just cut 'n' paste more minor mentions in hopes of supporting your losing argument.
Nah, I'm "that" interested.
Keeping on topic i.e. the music, many of those articles and Coven's mention have more to do with satanic praticioneers than their "actual" music judging by the articles titles I would imaging anyone who had anything to do with satanism made those type books.
Heck Sammy Davis Jr. was even a member of The Church Of The New Process @ one point! lol
It was a "scene" most weren't serious about it.
Posting large amounts of "brief" mentions of Coven in articles hasn't proved anything!
If anyone should get credit for the whole satanic concept album Witchcraft it should be their producer who came up with the concept,wanted to do a black mass on a rock album,composed-co wrote the material.
Coven just performed it.

Agree with Daemon
" And she is full of sh*t with the hand sign being part of a secret society. It is an old Italian curse or anti-curse depending on how and why it was done."
This is fact.

She's had nothing going on for YEARS, she got namechecked in that Lords Of Kaos book and now she's once again a card carrying witchy woman ready to take all your paper route money.
She's a very "small" part of music's actual history and will never get into the RHOF.
She would of had more clout if she kept making satanic albums instead of sucking on the teat of the first record label to show interest and drastically sellout from her "true beliefs".
A fraud,an oppurtunist that nobody cares about .


Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:09pm


Coven suck!
They're corney as hell (pun intended).
I bought that cd and could only listen to the black mass once cause I cracked up too hard.
The guy sounds like a gamr show host reciting it.
lolz

Posted by Mogwai Heights on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:17pm


No Loosing argument here, when something is presented for you to see as a influence with your own eyes.. blah.. you just want to argue. I have answered everything..
And are you members of Secret Socs that use the Sign of the horns? Sure dose not sound like it, so there for you do not know. unlike those that are, and trust me they have posted in this forum. SO therefore you shouldnt speak of something that you are not aware of. and what FACT do you have that Secret Societys of the LHP do NOT use the sign of the horns? I would love to see this FACT that you claim, which is going to be hard to find since the opperative word is " SECRET. "

My argument with it is over, I know who and what Coven and Jinx Dawson Influenced...Like I said, do PROPER reseach and you will see the Truth..
When Facts are presented you present the person supporting the Facts with a slap in the face..
This can be argued out over and over, and weither or not to accept it, all fingers will point to Coven and Jinx Dawson.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:42pm


Jimmy

This is the last time I will say this. If you have difficulty reading English, I will be more than happy to write it in Latin.

In that interview, she comes off more as a groupie than a musician. And she admits that she is neither a witch (Wiccan or whatever) or a Satanist. So much for the band being a real Coven. She claims magic and states that the other band memebers did the same. I call that Hocus Pocus. She was and is just trying to sell her book.

And last, the sign of the horns is nothing but a European (Basically Italian) superstition which has been practiced for centuries.

Get over yourself fanboy - enjoy Coven, stare at 40 y.o. posters and keep calling Charlie Manson Uncle Charlie. Maybe he will send you a card on your next b-day.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:43pm


Put Coven in the Witches Hall of Fame not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and lets get on with it, this is getting very boring.

SpaceTrucker

"Oooooh, witchy woman see how high see flies.

The Eagles

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:44pm


Thank you very much I have had contact with Charlie Manson.. But thats not really a concern of yours.. and if you havent heard the phrase " Uncle Charlie " then look it up in the media.


Ceremonial Magician of the Left Hand Path.. do you have a problem understanding that..
its Hoodoo and Voodoo.. Dark Magick, Chaos Magick, Sex Magick....." Left Hand Path "is Diabolic Matter where Right hand Path ( Wicca )is the opposite.

Can you people Not look things up for yourself?
Jesus tapdancing Christ.

I still want to see this FACT that secret Societys do not use the Sign of the Horns..

Posted by ~st. Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:57pm


First - no one said that some little secret society of knuckleheads don't use the sign. All we are telling you is that they don't own it. They didn't create it, therefore it is not theirs to copyright. Just like me, Dio said he got it from his Nana; and I believe him.

Second, if you haven't figured out yet, we all acknowledge Coven, we just don't think they are f'n special.

Finally, if you think that it is cool to have been in contact with Charlie Manson, then you need to be put in a rubber padded room or beaten about the head enough to knock some sense into your teenage head.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 17:35pm


Aw man,Coven rawk!
I am 29 yrs old and live in my mother's basement.
I am on a fourth grade reading level too.
hehe
I luv black metal and satan in general.
So when I discoverd that Coven were the first band to throw da hornz I had to vote
that they get into the rock and roll hall of fame.
I mean their contributions are outstanding!!!
Where would music be without the devil horns?
Or Satan?
Rock on dudez

Posted by Big Donny on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 17:37pm


Well, the Univ. of Texas has used the "hook 'em horns" sign for a whole lot of years (yep, it's the same thing)...!! Add that to the Italian curse/anti-curse thing, and it isn't such a new thing, is it!

To all of you who back up your statements with specific facts and reference points...thank you!! I'm glad you don't feel the need to make the people on this site search for evidence that you claim is there. For all of you know-all, see-all, I talk to "Uncle Charlie" but can't prove anything I say (I think there's a clinical term...full of crap), you'd be safer just offering opinions because your statements regarding "fact" hold no weight at all, and the more you say, the sillier you sound.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 17:42pm


Hey "Big Donny' have yo met St. Jimmy?
Do you dig Charlie Manson?
Me thinks you two would make wonderful friends.

Love exciting and new,come aboard we've been expecting you...

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 17:47pm


Gitarzan you reminded me.
I forgot to mention in "my" list of books that I own/read:
Michael Bruce-No More Mr. Nice Guy -The Inside Story Of The Alice Cooper Group by Michael Bruce/Billy James= No mention of Coven
The Illustrated Collector's Guide To Alice Cooper by Dale Sherman (great read,tons of trivia) =No Coven

Considering Jinx /Coven were SO influential on Alice Cooper as well you'd figure they would get @ least a sentence?
Nope

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 17:54pm


"I still want to see this FACT that secret Societys do not use the Sign of the Horns.."
Posted by ~st. Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:57pm

Kid, Daemon NEVER once nor did anyone else say "the secret society" didn't use the sign of the horns.
He made the accurate point of it's origin,old Italy.

Btw I'm outta here if this threads counts hits 666.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:00pm


2 cents worth...between what you and I have plus some of Dameon's references you'd think we could find SOME mention of Coven somewhere!!! I just never found this group interesting enough for more than just a casual glance, anyway.

If I remember correctly, Jinx was the only member of the group who performed on "their" only hit (One Tin Soldier). Didn't she insist on the whole group getting credit?

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:07pm


Btw I'm outta here if this threads counts hits 666.


Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:00pm

COWARD!!!!! ROFL!!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:10pm


Btw I'm outta here if this threads counts hits 666.


Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:00pm

COWARD!!!!! ROFL!!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:10pm


Far from teenage there bud. by 20 yrs


The same could be said about you, it seems to have to get in your lil brain somehow.


" And she is full of sh*t with the hand sign being part of a secret society. It is an old Italian curse or anti-curse depending on how and why it was done."

This is fact.

It was said that it was a FACT that secret sociteys didnt not use this sign. I would like to see this FACT when I know different.

And secondly you have no right to judge anyone by whom they have associated with... when you are seeking truth, from way to many loop holes from a silly book..


Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:12pm


"In that interview, she comes off more as a groupie than a musician."

No surprise,it explains why all thos "male' friends frequented her swingin witch pad back in the day.
I know Ahmet Ertegen had alot of tail on the side of his marriage.
That I saw on a PBS doc. about his life after he died.
I'm curious if that was Jinx role considering he did nothing to advance her career.

Posted by Bobby on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:14pm


"Far from teenage there bud. by 20 yrs"

Serious?
Oh man please don't tell me this...
A confused teenager with the Manson adoration "maybe".
A grown man?
C'mon

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:27pm


"If I remember correctly, Jinx was the only member of the group who performed on "their" only hit (One Tin Soldier). Didn't she insist on the whole group getting credit?"

Yes,she insisted the band get credit as a whole.
Somewhat of a bad career move imo.
She could of kept making her satanic music and not compromised herself.
And have a duel career of her own and actually sell records instead of flogging a dead horse 40yrs later.
Posting pics like "heres me sitting @ a buffet table with Jon Lord from Deep Purple,
I was sombody REALLY I WAS see lookee over there I'm getting on a plane with Ahmet Ertegen"
Yeah, wonder "why"... lol

Agreed, with all the books ,mags etc we all have read in our lifetime (+ the fact we were hearing One Tin Soldier when it was actually a hit record first time out) you'd think we'd have much Coven to discuss.
Not trying to be mean spirited,I listen /collect many obscure bands.
I read Record Collector,Goldmine,(defunct) Discoveries,Mojo,Relix...
Not to mention all my old rock mags,matter of fact i have the issue they reviewed the flick Billy Jack,no mention of Coven in the review.
If ANYTHING a minor mention of a reissue,and that I haven't really even seen.
Matter of fact

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:39pm


Deceased influential U.K. musician Graham Bond was also a practicing witch in the early 60's.
Had allthe satanic trappings on his latterday albums /stage show(early 70's).
@ one point he claimed he WAS Aleister Crowley's son.

Posted by Boo ! Demon on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:51pm


~St.Jimmy~...for someone who beats their chest about "facts", substantiating yours with specifics seems to be elusive. There's no point of reference (unless it's to look at every issue of a given magazine over the last 25 years), no specific dates...nothing!!! We're giving you reference and could give you specific issues where these so-called "influenced by Coven" artists don't breathe a word about them when it comes to being influenced in their music... or anything else!!!

I want to know why Coven would even be a passing thought in the minds of the nominating committee. What did they do that was so original or innovative (as far as creating music)? Who did they influence and where EXACTLY can we see evidence of this?

So far, it's all talk...and talk is cheap!! Quit telling everyone they need to research because YOU brought it up!!! Is there some gaurded secret that forbids you from setting us straight....????

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:57pm


Do any of you have any of the mentioned books that Matt Flash posted and I reposted?
They trace the orgins of this genre to the roots of Coven..

You want Magazine dates here are a few:

Esquire Magazine March 1970. - Evil Lurks in Hollywood and Lee Marvin is Scared.

Rolling Stone - (Lester Bangs States who came first Coven.) 1970.

Creem Magazine - (which is just a drugged out ramblinds of the writer after seeing Coven's Show.)December 1969. The Article entitled Coven - Sympathy for the Devil by Deday LaRene

TERRORIZER Magazine Nov.2007Coven - Jinx Posted both pages on the Coven myspace for all to read.

Cosomo or it was Cosmo Girl that covered when the satanic scence came back with Marilyn Manson. Not beeing a reader of those, I dont have the article but Jinx Does with Photos.

Classic Rock Magazine 2008 UK. I believe it was the June Issue.. I have it but not right beside me like these.. I do know that Lynyrd Skynyrd is on the cover.

Cashbox : 1972 which highly penned Nightingale The Single with B-side. " I guess its a beautiful day "

I can make a list on Coven from Rolling Stone to TV guide where Coven won a award for One Tin Soldier, On Dick Clark's " Touch of Gold "

The Mentioned Books, have the Dates.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 19:29pm


And also if you happen to remember Coven rarely if ever gave interviews.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 19:53pm


I am tired of reading all the crap about Coven. They are not getting in the hall. they didn't do nothing special, so get over it St. Jimmy. You are getting just as bad as all the Backstreet Boys fans that were on here a while ago.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 20:54pm


"And also if you happen to remember Coven rarely if ever gave interviews."
Yeah because nobody cared! lol
Jimmy that statement verifies that they were NOT a FEATURED interview then.

All the mags. received free promo copies of then new releases,so it was dirigour to get reviewed,which is basically all the mention they ever recieved except for a select "few" features that (rightfully) percieved them as a novelty act.
A standard record review back then does not entail their "major" influence.
Everything to do with "One Tin Soldier" per se is NOT proper reprensentation of what Coven were about.
You said so yourself.
They were "a real coven of witches",that song has NO satanic lyrics,they did NOT compose it anyway so all the info. you submitted from that era i.e. Cashbox,Dick Clark etc goes out ze window.

Alice Cooper's recent bio.Golf Monster(despite it's title it's a proper bio.) = No Coven
Gene Simmons bio. "Kiss and Makeup= No Coven
I think Dawson is taking her influence (unless she seriously (sic) believes it to be true)agenda waaay to the extreme.
Both aforementioned were avid horror film/comic book fans before they were exposed to Coven.
What does she think,after a 40 yr. lay off the world at large will discover her "influence" because of her My Waste friends ?
Everybody wants to be your friend on there,especially kids who are concerned with accumalating #'s of internet "friends".
A small amount are aware of Coven,care.
She's trying to rewrite "herstory" by going too far with her claims of importance on major acts.
It was minimal.

Posted by My 2 cents on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 21:10pm


"So far, it's all talk...and talk is cheap!! Quit telling everyone they need to research because YOU brought it up!!! Is there some gaurded secret that forbids you from setting us straight....????
Posted by Gitarzan"

Yeah really,he just keeps cutting and pasting the same articles that would be rather hard to locate from yrs gone by ,excepting the recent crap which is minimal.

My words (typos and all) are at least "my" words not me running over to Jinx's My Waste page and cutting 'n' pasting them here as proof.
As for Jinx-
Eh,I give the old broad credit,at almost 60 she's trying desperately to cling onto a WAY bygone era and rewrite her-story.
Looks like she picked up a "few" impressionables along the way.
I own the albums,not horrible,nothing great.

Posted by Bobby on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 21:25pm


"Cosomo or it was Cosmo Girl that covered when the satanic scence came back with Marilyn Manson. Not beeing a reader of those, I dont have the article but Jinx Does with Photos."

Curious Jimmy, This feature prominently namechecks Coven,
Or is it just a feature on satanic music?

Posted by Chief Wigum on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 21:36pm


Oh well I guess that the articles in the mentioned magazines recieved free promos too. As per say, Cosmo or Cosmo Girl, Terriozer, And Classic Rock Magazine? Featured Interview or Not, Specific Magazines and Dates are listed just as requested. and its some of the many that have articles on Coven.

Jinx agreed to do the song One Tin Soldier because it had a value to her.. I suppose you know that though right?

They did not compose it Correct.. However it was Jinx's version that became the biggest seller. Therefore Putting them on Dick Clark's Touch of Gold. Again, with MGM they did not go for the Satanic Themes, Dark Arts that were introduced with Witchcraft Destroys Minds And Reaps Souls.. The Band went with the flo so to speak to get a break so they could release what they had started out doing. She did ask that Coven be listed on that track.

Her myspace has nothing to do with this, but on her pages, she speaks nothing but the truth... if you want to belive it or not,it doesnt matter, those that have done proper looking into it know the truth. Coven were resposible for the Bands such as Sabbath.. and so on.. and responsible for the Black Metal and the Start of Heavy Metal that spawned many bands, Again you bring up the influence... look at the Band Witchcraft, Thier influences are so wide that they dont even list them, but you can tell hints of Coven, Pentagram, Sabbath, in thier music and lyrics. I even Listed a Modern band that Cites Coven as a influence... still didnt do any good.

And since you want to go there about the sound and lyrics, the same can be said with any band or musician. Black Sabbaths 1970 album to thier Never Say Die Album 1978 / 79
A huge progression I would say.. Never Say Die is one of my Favorites, However it dont cover the themes in the albums before it,The Doom and Gloom Themes. even Technical Ecstasy has a touch of Glam with Rock and Roll Doctor.
Alice Cooper had a huge progression from the Days when they were the Naz and The Spiders to Pretties for you To Easy Action and beyond, And David Bowie, from his Bubble Gum pop to his glam persona..
But then being I dunno a Teenager awestruck by Charlie Manson I wouldnt know such.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 21:42pm


Curious Jimmy, This feature prominently namechecks Coven,
Or is it just a feature on satanic music?

It Shows the Black Mass in full from Covens Witchcraft album, As i had said before I do not have that but Jinx does. I believe it came out around Halloween a few yrs back.

Yeah really,he just keeps cutting and pasting the same articles that would be rather hard to locate from yrs gone by ,excepting the recent crap which is minimal.
No Copy and pasteing on this end, In fact go to the creem archives and look for december 1969.. All the magazines i mentioned I have.

Posted by ~ St . Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 21:47pm


"Oh well I guess that the articles in the mentioned magazines recieved free promos too. As per say, Cosmo or Cosmo Girl, Terriozer, And Classic Rock Magazine? Featured Interview or Not, Specific Magazines and Dates are listed just as requested. and its some of the many that have articles on Coven.
Jinx agreed to do the song One Tin Soldier because it had a value to her.. I suppose you know that though right? "
Posted by ~ St . Jimmy ~

Well a "feature article" is relevent to this convo.
There's HUGE differnce between a full blown feature and a passing comment as far as importance etc with the subject @ hand.
Yeah I knew the One Tin Soldier info. (as I already stated) point is your debate is that Coven should be inducted into the RRHOF because they influenced many bands (mainly satanic type).
Fine, my reply is being one Tin Soldier was the highest profile thing they every did that got the most coverage it doesn't count because it has nothing to do with what Coven stood for.
Correct?
Coven were a real coven of witches,who first threw the devil horns on a rock album,composed satanic lyrics,Correct?
So why should you factor in the majority of their coverage for something that was unrepresenative of their music/style?
Coven 2- One Tin Soldier is not satanic lyrically (maybe a lyric or two)outside of them throwing the horns gesture.
It didn't influence anyone enough to warrant consideration for an induction to the RRHOF.
Nor did their followup album Blood On The Snow.
No the same can't be said about the examples you gave in regards to Coven.
Those artists have huge catalogs,as you said yourself "It was just an act,NOT a lifestyle" proper as was such the (suppossed) case with Coven.
Wasn't that that critisism of Sabbath it was an act,Coven were the real thing.
Coven cut 3 albums,only the debut is example of their major influence.
I mention Jinx's My Waste page because I perused it awhile back and it appears she's desperatley vying for attention from her past.
Pics of her eating at a buffet with Jon Lord,big deal...
It reeks of (as I've said several times here)
"I was somebody, REALLY I was.
lol
BTW- you do like some cool bands,and I'm not trying to bust balls.
I agree Coven (I find the originators of various musics very interesting hence my debating) did influence many,unknowingly or not to those influenced.
I just think Jinx is taking it "a bit far".

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 22:22pm


Example of a "feature" mention or a "passsing comment I located from the book Space Traveler By James Vincent, Robert J. Macoyby.

Vincent worked on the Witchcraft album he composed most of the songs and states Coven contributed 1- 2 (hardly their project).
The producer/financer Bill Traut (who's idea for the album it was) gave him a bunch of books on witchcraft and related subjects.
He says in brief "Coven wore black and had a blonde singer named Jinx Dawson who said she was born on Halloween".
That is the extent of his reccolections of Coven.
He goes on to tell some stuff about making the album that spooked him.
His ending resolve on the project:
"That's enough said about the Coven project,it was dark and it contributed nothing beneficial to the world".
Hardly giving accolades about the band etc.

Excerted from:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6Jbnm_oBl_UC&pg=PA43&dq=coven+jinx+dawson&as_brr=0&sig=ACfU3U3X9_X9qMWhagMe9f0piTVoi1qJMA#PPA44,M1

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 22:35pm


Truth be told...
Producer Bill Traut should get all the recognition.
It was HIS concept,
HE financed the Witchcraft album.
HE composed The Black Mass on side 2.
HE employed his partner to compose almost ALL the lyrics on the album.

Jinx is taking credit for someone elses concept.
What a wanker

Posted by Chief Wiggum on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 22:45pm


I find myspace a waste of time, I have very few friends on there, other than Jinx and Coven.. and A few bands, Facebook is so much better..

I was just pointing out the progression a band goes through.. But I do say Witchcraft and the Metal Goth Queen out of the Vault, Blood on the snow. are my favorites, ( although Coven II does hold a value to me.)Metal Goth Queen out of the Vault.. I mean come on it has some of Tommy Bolin's last recordings on it... Even bands with a short catalog themselfs, I have hundreds of albums from bands that only got 1 to 2 releases had a huge progression in sound. That comes from where my father worked into the indusrty, most are first pressings, and some never been opened. Even Sabbath stuff on the Vertigo Label..Sabbath Press releases, ect ect.. with Diff album covers from Belgium and such. and even albums that are hard to get ahold of such as Elias Hulk, Bang, The Wicked Lady,Cactus, Babe Ruth, the whole list to would take months to list. I chose my profession outside of that sort of, A Disc Jockey, and get tons of free promos from there too... with a Pod Cast Comming up soon.. Progressive and Beyond. I saw what those people went through, and its not right how they were treated, no royalities, nothing, Awards ripped from ones hand.. and I really didnt want to be apart of something that treats Art in its great form so bashingly.. and I dont blame Jinx for dispiseing the industry, I know what it did to my dad..

When it comes to a band like Coven.. when the media hated them, and press, and such, even venues, whats the point in doing a interview.. thats why they rarely if ever gave them.. but they are in lists of countless magazines, The mentioned Creem article, Im suprised the writer remembers what was seen, or heard..

And your right, At those times, With so many people comming and going, its hard to tell who was influenced, But Coven did start that Genera..

When you mentioned, The pics of John Lord... Now I feel like im crying out.. When I see the pics of me younger with Ozzy, Alice, Madonna, Robert Plant ect ect. But in the end and today, Jinx Dawson was someone, and she still is, and no matter if they give her credit or not, they know that she had influence on them..its seems to be a well hidden and kept secret.. she isnt really carring it to far, She just wants people to know.. The Truth.. I mean if you were part of something, and someone else got the credit for, even though you did it, wouldnt you want the truth to come out?

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 22:53pm


I do belive that was false, Jinx was born on Friday the 13th in January.
And if in not mistaken he is the one that took the award from Jinx when it was won for One Tin Soldier.
and if any of that is so.. How did Coven preform the songs before the witchcraft album in 1969.. Bill was from Dunwich productions ( I believe the name ) and he wrote the black mass..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 23:01pm


Truth be told...
Producer Bill Traut should get all the recognition.
It was HIS concept,
HE financed the Witchcraft album.
HE composed The Black Mass on side 2.
HE employed his partner to compose almost ALL the lyrics on the album.

Jinx is taking credit for someone elses concept.
What a wanker

Posted by Chief Wiggum on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 22:45pm


Actually, look at the album itself, the only thing Traut is listed for is the black mass.

The album concluded with a 13 minute track of chanting and Satanic prayers called "Satanic Mass" (written by their producer, Bill Traut, of Dunwich Productions).That is the only mention of him.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 23:07pm



This is the only place I found that has the album inside credits where you can zoom in..http://www.geocities.com/occult_library/CInside.jpg

The Band Composed 3 of the tracks, the others were written by a Jim Dolinger and a G.Dolinger.. Unless James Vincet changed his name, than that excerpt from that book is False.

And even that, its not uncommon practice for any musician or band to have songs written for them.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 23:36pm


The album concluded with a 13 minute track of chanting and Satanic prayers called "Satanic Mass" (written by their producer, Bill Traut, of Dunwich Productions).That is the only mention of him
They aint ROCK WITCH YOKO IS get over it ...!!!
I like the BEATLES the rest of music is a joke well most of it...



Yoko is and she has a CD that says so....
Cove is a wanta be... Get over it ,, Vote YES for YOKO

Posted by tinman on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 00:23am


My final thoughts on Coven:

They don't have a leg to stand on regarding the Hall. After a dump a bucket of water on her, she'll not have any legs to stand on.

I am struck oddly enough by the scene in Star Wars where the Imperial officers are sitting around in the Death Star discussing the stolen schematics to the station. At one point Darth Vader interjects about the Force, and an Imperial officer tears into him over this. Allow me to alter this a bit:

"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, St. Jimmy. Jinx's sad devotion to that ancient religion has not given her clairvoyance enough to influence future generations of metalheads, nor given her insight as to the voting patterns of the Hall of Fame".

Now it's at this point that if Jinx really were a witch, she'd make like Vader and do a little Admiral Ozzel/Empire Strikes Back throttle through my computer screen. You see, though, this isn't happening. I can type all I want to, and... and... (gasp)... oh my god.... (gargle)... she is a witch... (gasp)... Judy Garland, where are you...? Get the Water... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 05:46am


CC

I thought you were done with Coven.

Induct the Stooges now!

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 07:17am


"And even that, its not uncommon practice for any musician or band to have songs written for them."

Of course,BUT part of the argument was/is Coven were the first to COMPOSE satanic lyrics.
They did,but going on the honor system (Bill Traut's partner James Vincet) he did the bulk of the writing.
And it's ALSO not uncommon practice for an artist to have their name attached to writing credits when they contributed nothing or minimal.
So who's to say?
BTW- The James Vincet info. link I provided was from Google documents,I typed in Jinx Dawson Coven.It only displyed two books that was one of them that displyed the inner contents of reference.
I understand progression of sound etc.
Stay on topic,the argument was Coven were stern believers of satanism,they then (rather quickly) abadoned the concept on their 2nd-3rd albums.
Now on reflection it makes them appear more oppurtunists then true satanics waving their flag proudly.
Compounded by the fact Jinx went onto new wave music.

All the bands you mention Great taste! (Cactus,Ellias Hulk, Babe Ruth) I own most of their catalogs of on orig. vinyl and enjoy very much.
Ellias Hulk featured a pre Babe Ruth member btw.

Not/never was disputing their influence.
It's also common place for many to namrcheck an obscure artist (long after the fact) as a major influence simply because it's become chic to present yourself as so informed where you took it from.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 09:23am


"I do belive that was false, Jinx was born on Friday the 13th in January.
And if in not mistaken he is the one that took the award from Jinx when it was won for One Tin Soldier.
and if any of that is so.. How did Coven preform the songs before the witchcraft album in 1969.. Bill was from Dunwich productions ( I believe the name ) and he wrote the black mass.."

Are there any recordings of Coven performing ALL the songs from Witchcraft?
They can say anything they want,it's now become their "calling card" in hopes of not being forever remembered as a 1 hit wonder courtesy of One Tin Soldier.
Maybe being "it's 40 yrs" lol ago James Vincet confused Halloween/friday the 13 as her birthdate she told him.
Again minor error that doesn't take away from his cred.
Also the fact he didn't seem have much of an opinion @ all!

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 09:30am


" I mean come on it has some of Tommy Bolin's last recordings on it..."

Well truth be told for myself I never bought into Bolin's genius as a guitarist.
I remember when he replaced Blackmore in Deep Purple as a kid and when I heard the final results (Come Taste The Band) I was extremely disapointed.
IMO it was an INSULT that he was even given the spot as "Blackmore's replacement" to Blackmore.
Very weak in comparision.
Ditto when he joined The James Gang,very mediocre songwriting,playing from him.
Throughout all my yrs. of collecting I kept giving him another chance.
His 1st solo album "Teaser" is okay nothing incredible,his second one "Private Eyes" puts me to sleep (I read he was sleeping for much of it himself being he was too messed up out on heroin).
I have a Tommy Bolin band live boot from 1976 = nothing that matches his rep.
For evidence hear Purple's "Last Concert In Japan" album which is a sad,pathetic mess on his part.
I also have many sessions he did,rehearsals with Purple for the Come Taste The Band album.

So by the time he worked with Coven he was very much a strung out junkie,his arm was messed up to the extent from shooting heroin he couldn't even play well I have read his peers comment.


Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 09:47am


"I mean if you were part of something, and someone else got the credit for, even though you did it, wouldnt you want the truth to come out?"

Of course,and it's admirable your belief in supporting the more obscure bands and having empathy towards their unjust treatment by the industry.
I feel the same,matter of fact I myself am a musician,and worked for several record labels over the yrs. major and indie.
Geffen for one during the late 80's.
But I digress...
My complaint is comments like Stevie Nicks -Edge Of 17 is all Coven (?)
Coven didn't invent dark poetry,imagery.
They exploited it,did alot of it first (as far as we know).
L.A. is a major locale for the music industry,just because every rock star frequented The Rainbow,Whiskey etc during the time Coven did doesn't mean they borrowed (even payed attention to them) from them.
It's going overboard.
I attribute Stevie Nicks vocal sound during that era to large quanities of cocaine and the fact she had developed nodes which changes ones voice.
Everything is Coven influenced this/ that.
Who's to say she didn't read alot of Sylvia Plath,listen to Edith Piaff.
It's doubtfull she cared about Coven.
(I'm not even a big Nicks fan)
They did "to an extent".
I don't believe they RRHOF worthy,again at the exception of who Captain Beefheart,Deep Purple,Jeff Beck,ALL of the many 50's performers that contributed much more as artists than a hand sign.
Going by the logic about Coven's importance i.e. the horns,satanism we should then put Jim Marshall into the RRHOF.
He the creator of the "Marshall" amplifier and a former musician(drummer) himself.
He REALLY helped shape rock and roll and music as we know it.
Much more impotant than "the horns"
lol

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 10:16am


Personally, I couldn't give 2 craps about Coven. Their 6 fans must all be gathered together on this website.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 11:37am


Hey everybody I just wanted to chime in Coven DID NOT RELEASE the first music video!!!!!
As Jinx has claimed of Coven's 1974 Blood On The Snow clip.

As far back as 1966 promo video clips were around by bands such as Cream for their song I Feel Free which is footage of them playing around outdoors wearing capes etc.
MANY more examples are around in abundance.
Ditto on Sabbath predating Coven in the video stakes,they had a video out in 1974 as well for their song Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
Someone slip a reality check pill into Dawson's cauldron of blood goblet!!

Posted by Just Passin' Thru on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 12:38pm


Hey everybody I just wanted to chime in Coven DID NOT RELEASE the first music video!!!!!
As Jinx has claimed of Coven's 1974 Blood On The Snow clip.

As far back as 1966 promo video clips were around by bands such as Cream for their song I Feel Free which is footage of them playing around outdoors wearing capes etc.
MANY more examples are around in abundance.
Ditto on Sabbath predating Coven in the video stakes,they had a video out in 1974 as well for their song Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.
Someone slip a reality check pill into Dawson's cauldron of blood goblet!!

Posted by Just Passin' Thru on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 12:38pm


Techinally the Blood on the Snow Video was supposed to be used as the backdrop video for that tour, However Disney funded and such mentioned video, therefore making it the first actual music video.. They were promo Clips of bands at that time, but that dosent make a video.. and you also have the live music from the beat club, also which had many great artists, but those do not consider as music videos either, The Midnight Special, Don Kirshner's Rock Concert, All of these that are mentioned, Have been used as music videos at the time for a particular song..

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 13:49pm


I dunno about the whole James Vincet deal, like I had said, unless he changed his name from Dolinger to Vincent or dropped the Dolinger, there is no mention of him on the Witchcraft album.. Bill Traut yes.. but no mention of Vincent. In any of the Credits. And also Coven were preforming in 1968.. I am sure that they preformed the songs that they wrote such as Wicked Woman. One member said "they started out in the Teen Circut and no one liked them, they didnt ask them to come back" or something to that effect. That is from the August Reunion Interview, posted above, Soooo Tech, They had to be preforming something.

Until I am told different I dont believe it, his name isnt on the credits. I dont believe everything I read, thats why I research and stress it so much, with a band like Coven you have to dig deeper and then even Deeper to get the correct information, and sometimes deeper than that, its going to take more than 12 to 15 minutes of looking at stuff rather.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 14:08pm


"Techinally the Blood on the Snow Video was supposed to be used as the backdrop video for that tour, However Disney funded and such mentioned video, therefore making it the first actual music video.."

Well here's a counterpoint that my local N.Y. area news station claims.
The were THE first to air the Christmas Yule Log every x-mas.
The creator simply filmed an actual fireplace with x-mas music playing behind it.
This is regarded as the FIRST ever music video according to them and I believe on actual record.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 14:37pm


Yep, in 1966x-mas music accompying a fire burning in a fireplace is in fact THE FIRST music video.

I watched all of the aformentiond (U.S.) shows Jimmy.
The european ones such as Beat Club I had to see much later on video etc.
I'm not talking about concert footage,or lip synching on American Bandstand.
I'm talking an actual film of whatever Cream fooling around running up and down a hill wearing long cloaks,making faces etc which can be seen in their "I Feel Free' clip from 1966.
There's Many more waay before Covens.
David Bowie had one for Space Oddity pre 1974...

As for James Vincet I dunno know,he barely addressed the whole Coven experience in his book,they're a very obscure band.
Why should he lie?
(going on the honor system)
I mean it's not like he's making claims he was the fifth Beatle.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 14:50pm


I certainly don't believe everything I read as well.
I CAN'T believe I've warranted this band all this attention!
BTW-
Coven's first failed single was a remake of Them's "Gloria" btw, very unsatanic I'd say for such "devout" satanics.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 15:09pm


Well that can be argued back to many things then, to even futher than 1966. Record Companies did the promo clips for sales.. where as Disney funded and whatnot for the Blood on the Snow video ( backdrop ) the deffination of music video and promo videos are 2 totally different things.

Coven's First single that I was always aware of was Wicked Woman / White Witch of Rose Hall. and I havent seen a mention of Gloria in Covens Catalog.

The James Vincet deal, I dont believe it until I am told different.If he was part of the project he would have been listed, and not as Dolinger, like I said he changed his name or dropped the Dolinger, and even listed a Ginna Dolinger, no James Vincent. The reason maybe he barely addressed it, was because he wasnt involved, but maybe other than Bill Traut?
I mean Gene Simmons did say his persona the Demon Created the International Heavy Metal Sign ( the horns ) and we all know that is a lie.


"Well here's a counterpoint that my local N.Y. area news station claims.
The were THE first to air the Christmas Yule Log every x-mas.
The creator simply filmed an actual fireplace with x-mas music playing behind it.
This is regarded as the FIRST ever music video according to them and I believe on actual record."

and I do believe that hardly counts as a music video, if so then Judy Garland did it when she was on television in front of a fireplace with her children Joey and Lorna singing " Have yourself a Merry Xmas "

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 16:17pm


"Coven's first release on Mercury was a cover version of "Gloria". The catalog number on the single was 666. Coven didn't make much of a splash. They released an album called "Witchcraft" and this was to be the beginning of the end of their association with Mercury."
(A basic search provided this info).

Well you're big on "technicalities"(as am I) so yes,The Yule Log burning according to WPIX N.Y. are cited as the first music video.
So Disney financed Coven's video,does the financer have to be a major studio to acredit the facts.
Whoever,it wasn't Coven!
As for James Vincet, I dunno know.
In his defense playing devil's advocate (clever huh)as I pointed out:
A. It was/is hardly a high profile "successful" project to have on your resume.

B.It's so obscure,why lie?
C.Many artists (mainly for writing residuals) insist their name be put on a songs composing credits.
How do you know for FACT this was NOT the case here.
Struggling unknown band gets an offer to execute a project,insists they get some co-write credits.
Dawson/they will never tell you different anyway.
The way she's attempting to make her shit band more than it was.
Next thing you'll be telling me Jimi Hendrix nicked much of his style from their guitarist!
I think your impressed by the circles she moved in and knowing someone who achieved minor cult status and it's clouding your judgement.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 17:35pm


As for Gene Simmons-
He'd have us believe he invented the wheel.
So he's a prick for making that claim about the horns,but who takes him seriously anyway...

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 17:37pm


"In fact, the first single released by Dunwich in 1966 was a cover of Them's "Gloria" by the Shadows of Knight. The catalogue number of the record was #666."

An error on my part it was not Coven,sorry bout that.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 17:43pm


[2 cents:] Coven's first release on Mercury was a cover version of "Gloria". The catalog number on the single was 666.

[MY RESPONSE:] TOTAL misinformation. First off, wise guy, it's obvious that you didn't read from your source carefully. . . . The cover of "Gloria" that you speak of was recorded by Shadows of Knight who were produced by BILL TRAUT (hence your confusion because Bill Traut was Coven's producer too). The LP catalog number of Shadows of Knight's debut that featured "Gloria" was "666". So . . . It comes down to this:

I don't like you . . . and it's not because you dislike Coven. That's your right, asshole. My problem with you is this: you don't take the time to carefully read your sources.

And here's another problem that I have with you: Why do you waste so much energy dismissing Jinx? Get a job. Get a life.

My only wish is this: that David Lee Roth approaches you with ass-less pants and farts in you face, because that's what you deserve.

Posted by Matt flash on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 18:06pm


And this is directed to St. Jimmy:

I love ya, man . . . give these assholes Hell!

Posted by Matt Flash on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 18:09pm


Hey 2 cents! I'm callin' ya out . . . from one Black Sabbath fan to another. . . . You're a snail. Crawl on you belly and kiss Dio's ass.

Posted by Matt Flash on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 18:11pm


Crawl on you belly and kiss Dio's ass. (matt)

This is 2nd or 3rd time you have used this line. Yeah, - you must be tough.

I don't care who's fact are correct. Coven is a footnote.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 19:14pm


Matt Flash ...I really hope you don't like me either. You're pretty low rent. Foul language and tough talk is pretty easy for someone like you on the internet. Quite frankly, I'm pretty much over talking about a largely insignificant band. Their only claim to fame was "One Tin Soldier"...period.

Calling someone out on the internet...there's one for a comedy routine. It's probably the only way you could call anyone out. The conversation was actually pretty lively and halfway interesting. I appreciated Jimmy verifying where he got his information and I really did try to get his rationale. Then along comes "Matt Flash", spewing his venom and overall B.S. to spoil the environment.

Well there's five minutes typing this that I'll never get back. I don't sweat people like you, Matt Flash...you're pretty insignificant. Consider yourself dismissed...!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 19:15pm


Well you're big on "technicalities"(as am I) so yes,The Yule Log burning according to WPIX N.Y. are cited as the first music video.

Thats more art film then anything, and if thats so, That makes Sid Barretts LSD trips music videos also..

As I had said before Promo Videos were and in some cases still put out by record companys to push sales..

A Actual Music Video, Even Backdrop Videos count in this catagory, cause most musicians use the Backdrops on either tour form or music video from.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 19:15pm


~St.Jimmy~...I guess it all depends on how loosely the term "music video" is used. Heck, in the mid-60's the Monkees were serving up some sort of "music video" nearly every week, whether it was part of the episode or an entity unto itself.

As far as backdrops go, I couldn't even tell you when I started noticing them.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 19:25pm


Matt-
First up I did a few searches.
The first one to came up was a blog that said they cut a single for Mercury.
I wanted to double check and when I did the other info. came up.
(that's the internet for you)
In my life I'm certain I've read more about obscure bands than you could ever fathom.
All my info. I previously submitted is accurate.
I admitted my error,I'm not perfect are you?
So that's were the confusion came from,I @ least cared enough to go double check.
As for not liking Coven,if you followed the thread I don't mind Coven by and large,own the albums,had gotten them before there was an internet.
My gripe is Coven/Jinx is taking their/her importance waaay too far in the history of rock.
I'm not a Dio fanatic (why does everone who gives a counterpoint to this debate get accused of being one?) lol
Insult me all you like,your a faceless name on the internet who hasn't (unlike Jimmy) been at least civil with their debate.
I don't care much for you either,you've brought nothing to this convo. facts wise etc.
Just nasty unprovoked remarks,a sign of a real man.
Resolve go smack it to your Jinx pics from 40yrs ago, be sure to clean up your mess when your done.
Don't wanna make your mom upset.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 21:45pm


Those were Televison shows, Not music Videos, those in turn became what is called also as promo videos. and were extremely popular at that time, but they were not really seen by the public only Record Companies.. The Monkees yes because those were aired weekly. A Backdrop or Music video such as Blood on the snow didnt come into effect until that time.. Because I cant remember ever seeing a Backdrop Video on Sabbaths " Sabotage " tour that I attended at Ashbury Park. Nor the Never say Die tour...
Not even at a Floyd Concert until the 80s mid 80s I believe, Maybe they had one for the Wall when that was on tour, I dunno I didnt attend that.
Backdrop Video's became popular again in the 90s, I believe Madonna had some very violent ones and very provocative ones also. But its safe to say, yes Coven did do the First Music Video, that was ment for a Backdrop for the Blood on the Snow tour, so therefore it makes the fist Pre MTV music Video.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 21:51pm


"And here's another problem that I have with you: Why do you waste so much energy dismissing Jinx? Get a job. Get a life."

I have a job,that's why I'm here so often it involves my computer.
I keep several windows open @ once and comment back and forth with Jimmy etc when I get bored.
I viewed it as friendly debate...
I enjoy talking music.
I obviously "stuck" a chord with you.
I guess if what's being said isn't to your approval and challenges "your" view the only way to converse is with idle threats.
Again,sounds rather imature,ridiculous on the internet,especially over a light hearted topic.
Or is this "your life" defending the honor of a has been.
Now who needs to get a life,job...

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 21:56pm


"That makes Sid Barretts LSD"
Not to bust balls but being you get your head taken off for (my mistake of using the internet as a source)making an error.
It's "Syd"

I'm still confused how a promo film like Cream's I Feel Free which isn't concert footage was made for the same purposes as Coven's video doesn't qualify.
It makes NO sense.
Cream shot a film,we're not talking the quality or execution of we're talking a film made showcasing the band in some way other than standard performance footage.
Your comeback is well it's not the same because Coven had a backdrop?
Sounds very lame Jim

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:07pm


Ya know now that I think of it Jethro Tull had their "The Story Of The Hare That Lost It's Spectacles" video from their "A Passion Play" album,that has only commercially seen the light of day on the recent A Passion Play cd anniversary reissue.
They also made a video for War Child in 1974

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:12pm


"But its safe to say, yes Coven did do the First Music Video, that was ment for a Backdrop for the Blood on the Snow tour, so therefore it makes the fist Pre MTV music Video."

So now it's a video soley made as a backdrop for a tour.
K "Nektar",they had video clips devised "soley for the current album" they were touring.
They were around since the late 60's known for their stage shows.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:22pm


I guess the first actual "music videos" (same day) I remember seeing were on American Bandstand in about 1967, I believe. On that day they introduced "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane" in a rather bizarre video format. They definitely weren't performance footage of any kind. They might be on YouTube (everything else is).

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:26pm


Yep...they're both there! I guess they could be considered "promo' videos, being on American Bandstand. I just remember it blowing my mind because it was quite a change for the Beatles, at least from my vantage point.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:33pm


Thats the word I was looking for to pretty much sum up a promo video....... FILM.....
its a short film..musical yes, its like The ones the Doors did for The Unkown Soldier, Pink Floyd did with Bike and Arnold Layne, See Emily Play, just short films.. But it didnt constitute at the time as a music video..Because like I had said, they werent really seen by the public. I think I can remember bits and pieces of some being used as commercial form to push sales for that particular album. We all know how marketing is today, everywhere this is a promo for " buy so and so's album out today " But at that time they were filmed as Films and not videos.

Where as A Backdrop such as Blood on the Snow, was, and would be, for the public to see It was made into Video Form for that reason. Weither it being on a tour for a Backdrop video or not.



Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:43pm


So now it's a video soley made as a backdrop for a tour.
K "Nektar",they had video clips devised "soley for the current album" they were touring.

A Perfect example would be to youtube Madonna Backdrop Video or just Madonna Backdrop. And then Pink Floyd Bike or the Doors Unknown Soilder, and you can see the difference as a Backdrop video and a Music Film or Promo film

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:50pm


Gitarzan-
I think you hit the nail directo-mundo with first The Beatles,then The Monkees.
They beat em all to the punch.
I'm sure Jimmy will give the defense they didn't have a backdrop (?).
In all seriousness,do you really think a band such as Coven will overide The Beatles,or The Monkees (who I've read numerous times Mike Nesmith claim the had the first music videos) as who produced the first rock video because it was going to be used as a backdrop! lol
Jethro Tull had their intermission film that featured the band dressed up as various animals romping around to their song in 1973,it was "actually" used as a backdrop at a live concert.
I have all my old Circus mags from 1970 -late 80's when they had the bands touring agendas listed.
Coven "may" of been in there for 1-2 small club dates.
The were an opening band @ best.
No disputing the opened for big names,so what...
They were never a top bill attraction,the most the can do is ride someone elses coatails.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:51pm


(who I've read numerous times Mike Nesmith claim the had the first music videos) --- Operative word " Claim "



Jethro Tull had their intermission film
Exactly it was a film.

Films and Music Videos ( or being backdrop videos ) are different than films.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 22:57pm


(who I've read numerous times Mike Nesmith claim the had the first music videos) --- Operative word " Claim "

and then if you go that route, then that can be disputed to any television program that aired music before The Monkees.

Posted by ~St . Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 23:01pm


A Perfect example would be to youtube Madonna Backdrop Video or just Madonna Backdrop. And then Pink Floyd Bike or the Doors Unknown Soilder, and you can see the difference as a Backdrop video and a Music Film or Promo film"

I saw The Doors films yrs. ago before there was a You Tube,thanks though.
Jim,In the end to a fanatic such as yourself (not an insult)and a reg. music fan no one is going to "split hairs" and give credit to Coven because it was a backdrop video instead of a music video proper.
The basic catagory of first music video will never officially go to Coven in anyway other than her small following that eat this crap up.
If Jinx thinks otherwise she is "really out there".
No offence.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 23:07pm


"and then if you go that route, then that can be disputed to any television program that aired music before The Monkees."

Well Nesmith's "claims" are more valid than Covens considering The Monkees predates them by several years.

I don't go this "it's a film,no it's a video" crap.
The Jethro Tull example as far as I'm concerned more than fits the criteria.
It was a film/video made by the band in 1973 which prdates Covens(not for only industry people)to be used as a backdrop during their concerts and it WAS.
Considering it was 1973,and their's was 1974 it might of been made on the same type of "videotape" considering videotape was in exsitence @ that point.
All Covens clip is to me is the album cover with various still pics,smoke blowing etc.
Truth be told it just looks like a standard industry clip for record executives.
IMO

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 23:19pm


"--- Operative word "Claim "

Coven's "whole" legacy is based on that word.

Night guys,send Matt f@#$ face my regards

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 23:23pm


Backdrop Videos are Music videos, opposed to those of the Promo Clips, like I said promo clips were used by record companys to push sales, where as music videos were filmed with some purpose to the public.. And Blood in the Snow is the first actual music video, being withing the deffination of a music video.
The promotional clip's continued to grow in importance, with television programs. which is what they were used for.. not music videos, they are films.

Promo films or Music Films date back to 1923

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 23:31pm


I believe I stumbled on the above mentioned Jethro Tull " Video " Passion Play? This is not a video, its images projected on the screen, not in music video form.with a swirl on the screen and A Ballerina to be exact, Im sorry but that does not qualify it as a video.It is a Screen Projection. This is the sort of thing you saw on the screen of bands at that time and during the psychedlic scene where liquid was placed on glass and projected on the screen giving the psychedelic effect. There was NO BAND that had a actual real Backdrop that could even be considered as a music video at that time until 1974.. Which showed in true Music Video Form,which was Blood on the Snow. and as it was seen by the very first video to air on MTV " The Buggles.. Video Killed The Radio Star. "

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 02:24am


I am pretty sure "Happy Jack" by The Who outdates most of what you are speaking here. That was a video!

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 07:22am


"I believe I stumbled on the above mentioned Jethro Tull " Video " Passion Play? This is not a video, its images projected on the screen, not in music video form.with a swirl on the screen and A Ballerina to be exact, Im sorry but that does not qualify it as a video.It is a Screen Projection"

No,that's not what I'm referring to.
(Please don't go by You Tube clips (in general) people cut em up,use their artistic freedom @ times.
I'm refering to "The Story Of The Hare That Lost It's Spectacles" COMPLETE.
It was a song on their A Passion Play album from 1973.
They mad a film/video where the band members are frolicking around dressed as various animals outdoors with yes ballerinas to their music.
It is included in it's entirety on the anniversary cd re-issue of A Passion Play as a DVD extra.

I have NO doubt The Beatles,The Monkees,The Who etc,etc,etc all predate Jethro Tulls,Covens.
Everytime someone gives the example of a music video predating the "technicals" get more specific.
LOL
If one has to do that it's usually to obscure they've been beaten.
It's like to baseball player broke the previous holder record?
Yes or No
Weeeel, "technically he did,but he was on steroids.
Splitting hairs...
Tulls fits the criteria even will the "sliding scale" of specicifics forever changing.
It was a music film/video of Jethro Tull used as a backdrop during their concerts.
It predates Coven by a year.
It doesn't matter if it was shown during intermission,it is a music video/film of them.



Posted by My 2 cents worth on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 09:21am


"If one has to do that it's usually to obscure they've been beaten.
It's like the baseball player who brakes the previous holders record?
Yes or No, they did.
Weeeel, "technically they did,but he was on steroids,therefore it doesn't count".
Splitting hairs...
Tulls fits the criteria even with the "sliding scale" of specicifics forever changing during this convo.
It was a music film/video of Jethro Tull used as a backdrop during their concerts.
It predates Coven by a year.
It doesn't matter if it was shown during intermission,it is a music video/film of them."

Works for me!

Posted by Randy on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 09:28am


Checkout what Wikipedia's criteria is for a "music video:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video

Notice the words "film","video" accompanied to music.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 09:32am


Just watched it from the DVD.. Sorry that is FILM not a music video. 6 mins and 37 secs of pure boredom that was. Has NOTHING to do with the " Music Video "

Notice the words "film","video" accompanied to music.

Right, and if you futher read " Promo Film " and Music Video " are 2 words you left out.

The Tull that you mentioned isnt a " video "

Blood on the Snow, was put out on Buddah Records in 1974. One of the 1st music videos ever made directly for an album title song was produced by Jinx and the Coven with Disney Studios...... And fits with the proper term for Music Video.. Again as it was seen for the first time with " Radio Killed the Video Star "


Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 12:38pm


Errr. Video Killed the Radio Star..

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 12:59pm


Enough with the videos. It doesn't matter because Coven is not getting into the Hall and they don't deserve to get into the Hall. I cannot believe such an insignificant band would dominate this site. Where are all the BSB fangirls when you need them? At least they were fun.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 13:29pm


Example on the subject of influence in rock and roll:

Janis Joplin.Terrific performer.One of the best.Lots of sales.Lots of exposure.But did

Legions of blues singing girls come after her?

Coven was 1st to record a very different album in 1969 during the "Love Generation".

Do Legions of male and female performers eventually present the same ideas, inverted
crosses, throw the sign of the horns, do black masses, dark arts themed material, gothic garb, makeup and skulls, esoteric cover artwork, dark stage shows as COVEN did starting in

1968?

YES.

The list is VERY long.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 15:31pm


It bassically comes down to this, Coven were the Pioneers / Starters of this form Genre known as Metal.. They spawned many bands that followed thier steps by takeing or " borrowing from them. " If it were not for Coven this Genre would probably not exist.

And if you really want to get into Techs, Alice Cooper did not stay with his supposed Image either. Since being that he took his name from a Ouija Board spelling out the name Alice Cooper, which is story is correct was the name of a witch.. Around the Love it to Death and Killer Album, before the change in make up, There were photo's of him wearing a Pentagram.. and you dont see him wearing one now, Thats because he " abandoned " his Occult association, Maybe this was done because he was a " son of a preacher man " and he was actually scared of that thing.. However, he wasnt being true to his image that he presented at that time..and especially at the time of the photographs, Where as Coven stuck to the image reguardless, they were being true to themselfs and what they represented, Black Sabbath started out with a " so called Satanic image / Association " But that was thrown out the window with the " Crosses " not being inverted, and Geezer Butler stateing that thier songs were anti satanic, However, Geezer was the only one to actually admit he had a interest in the Occult, but thier songs were against it. Thats not being true.

All you guys keep saying is that Coven is just a footnote, and not important, or not RNRHOF worthy, but none of you can back up with actual facts that can prove anyone wrong.

When it all come down to it, Jinx Dawson, and Coven, were the originators of this scene / genre.. as I had said, spawned many bands, weither you believe it or not..





Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 15:51pm


Agreed Jimmy, Tull's "The Hare Lost" etc video/film is boring.
Although I DON"T agree about it not fitting the criteria.
It's a film/Video made to be shown during their concert (1973) with them in it to the strains of their music.
Production vales,quality,excitement factors aside.
But I digress,so scracth it as the Tull example if you like.

We're still left with all these examples given here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video

No mention of Coven,they were NOT the first.

Jimmy:
"Alice Cooper,There were photo's of him wearing a Pentagram and you dont see him wearing one now"

Me:
For Alice Cooper it was always just an image,he was never a satanist,no one here ever claimed so either.
He certainly wouldn't be wearing pentagrams now he's been a born again christian for many years

Bottom line Jimmy-
Unless Coven get "proper" accredit (never happen) from a universally acknowleded source such as The Guiness Book Of World Records or something akin outside of fanboys such as yourself (again not meant as an insult) it means squat to only you.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 16:29pm


"Coven stuck to the image reguardless, they were being true to themselfs and what they represented"

"Musically" by Coven 2 they were a generic boogie band that could be found in the $1.99 rack of which I bought my copy sealed.

Coven? there's actually a "serious" discussion about... "Coven"
Yowza, you people need to get a life.
As a child of the seventies they were a joke.
(walking away shaking my head "Coven?"
lmao

Posted by Bad Motor Scooter on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 16:37pm


However though that is the Image Alice Cooper took, on.. until he became untrue to his image that he started out with...

The Music Video Can be debated.. btw I was reminded of The Wicker Man during the Tull one..
Where as Coven on Wikipedia Cite they were the first to do a video.. And I noticed on the Music Video Wikipedia that it contains: So that isnt really reliable.. where as its listed on Coven's..

"This article includes a list of references or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations."

So that isnt really reliable.. where as its listed on Coven's..

And Honestly Im just throwing this out there since none caught on.. When I named the " Sign of the Horns" none of you could Call me out.. The Sign Ronnie James Dio, Claims that he is doing is the Mano.. he claims that he picked that up from his Italian grandmother... im calling that * cough * Bull Shyte.. If you Look at the " Mano " it is NOT what Dio is doing, Dio is DOING the LHP greeting.. Not the mano.. If his grandmother was as superstitious as he claimed, she would have NOT done the LHP greeting..which he uses.. and its not the Mano.. The Mano is done with Thumb Facing toward you.. where as the LHP greeting is done with the thumb facing outward.. as in toward the audience.. as in the proper and correct way that it is done on the Witchcraft album... SO there is more to that story than that lil midget is letting out.. its a KNOWN fact that Rainbow was named after the Rainbow room.. and its Known that Dio frequent there often WHERE Jinx and Coven had the Main booth where he SAW Jinx and Coven use the LHP greeting, not the Mano..

ask any superstious Italian to do the Mano properly.. you will see that its NOT what Dio is doing..

My point in this, None of you can back up and reseach anything properly, The one that had the Italian grandmother and mother...... you should have known that Dio is NOT doing the Mano.. he is doing the LHP greeting.. if you had researched it, you would have called me out right then.. but no you said that " Dio says he got it from his grandmother, and i believe him "



Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 16:51pm


I don't need to look up Dio or Coven or Jinx or read your too thought out arguements. Here is the fact, I was born and raised in Little Italy in NYC and surrounded by old world Italians my entire life. Italians called it the "maloichia". I have traveled through the hilltop villages in Sicily all the way north to Tuscany. It is used for either blocking a curse or giving the evil eye depending on the position of the hand. My Aunt just did it when my great-niece was born to guard her in her future life. And get this, my Aunt was born the year WW I statred. So I think I will take her word for it before yours.

So Jimmy boy, take your bullsh*t satanic crap and whatever position your thumb is in and shove up your teenage arse because now you are annoying. Read all the books you want, but don't think for one minute that you know more than the people who lived and breath those superstitions. And it hs nothing to do with music. Coven is a footnote now go stare at the 60 y.o. saleswoman and have a good weekend.

Can this Coven shit stop now!

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 17:18pm


Oh let me remind you as you reminded me, " This is the Internet, you can say anything."

Point being, why would Dio want to Give the Evil Eye into his audience and in his pictures? LOL.

Cause he dont know what the hell he is doing LOL!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 17:22pm


One more thing knucklehead. I don't like Dio; I never saw him live and if one of his videos pop on the TV, I turn it off. If the man says that he uses a sign he learned from his Nana; who the f*ck am I to question it. I never met the man. My comments on the horn sign is specifically related to my family and experiences.

I can't believe I am going to say this: Liam - I miss your comments.

Posted by Dameon666 on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 17:22pm


Well His nana musta been giving everyone the " evil Eye " then..
and now he gotta give everyone the Evil Eye too, cause he sure as FOCK dont know what the hell he is doin!

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 17:29pm


Jimmy - who cares about Dio? I don't! You have made your points and we have discussed them with you. There is nothing left to be said. In my opinion, the only way Coven and Jinx get into the HoF is if they stand on line and buy tickets. They are not getting inducted, no matter how many times you hit the yes button on this site.

Now if you want to buy into this whole Satanic b.s., then go ahead and enjoy. But Satan and Hell in Rock and Roll is basically a gimmick. It makes for some interesting lyrical concepts; that I admit. Yeah, there are some bands that have bought into it, but they are not very musical IMO, and I really don't care about them. Since I do not know Jinx personally, I have no idea what her true beliefs are, nor do I care.

Now stop, please!

I can't believe I am actually trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone who calls Manson "Uncle Charlie". I need to go have a drink.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 17:47pm


Yes. Shut up Jimmy.

Posted by Qwertyuiop on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:00pm


I was being reasonable I think, I was just pointing out, you would have caught on to it, weither or not I was telling the truth.. I had sever Italian woman today in thier 70s and 80s do for me the correct hand gesture that Dio claims that he is doing, and its not what he is doing, he is doing something that he says he got from his grandmother, where as Italian Superstition has it that it can be called Giving the Evil Eye..which is pretty much what he does to his fans and in most of his pictures, being this, he dont know what the hell " literally " he is doing.. Also I am pointing out that there is more to his story than he lets on.. Im not nor was I being smart arse about it,.. Im simply stateing dont always believe what the " media " leads you on to belive.. its one simple word... Research... and you will find " truth "

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:01pm


Dameon...I have an idea!! Let's get the ladies together and go conquer Larimer Street in beautiful downtown Denver!! Maybe we can run into people I know who played for Poco, Sugarloaf, Firefall, etc..., and see what they know!!!

How soon can you get here???

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:10pm


You really do not get it do you?
Does it take a lighting bolt to strike you in order to turn on that light bulb above the head?
" Connections. " as in " Connecting the Dots. " Start at the top, with Coven being at the top.. work your way down.. you will find:
Stealing " Borrowing " using things you dont know about as a way to connect with the audience.. the list goes on and on and on..

But then again, you dont want to take the time to look into it for yourself.. you want it made easy, or you dont want to accept facts..You want to belive what the media sells you. so you believe that, cause you dont know any better.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:24pm


I don't even know what you are talking about. First you rant on and on about Dio even though we all tell you that no one cares about the midget and whether he should take credit for the horn sign. I don't give a crap. The sign hs nothing to do with music; writing or playing.

As for connecting the dots - what dots? Are we talking music or are you hinting about the truth as you see it with Manson? Because if you are talking about Manson, then I have nothing to say to you. You need to go back and start taking your meds again.

And I thought Liam was the only one who could make me ball up my fist in anger on this site.

Shawn - where the hell are you?

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:49pm


St. Jimmy, you need to stop

Just stop

Posted by Blueby on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 18:58pm


If there's one thing I learned today it's that Jimmy has too much spare time

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 19:01pm


No mention of Manson in that post.. I said Start at the top with Coven being the top and work your way down, you will find:
1.Influence - it is known they were all " mingled " together.
2.Stealing or " Borrowing "
3.Using signs that one has no knowledge of.. as a form to Connect to his fans, which in fact, hes giving the " evil eye " to them, which isnt very honorable amonst those fans if they actually knew.

It all goes to the top of the list.. Coven..
as Matt had mentioned:

Steve Ross was asked to join Rainbow...SO that tells that there was mingling together.. and that Dio's story of the " horns " is false. amonst other things.

Jinx was offered a Solo carreer

Chris Neilsen ( Guitar Player ) was asked to Join Rufus...

Matt Left out Jinx's Solo Career offer and that of Chris Neilsen.

But then I dont guess Coven really influenced Bands at all did they?
The Connect the dots, means, There are lot more to Coven, than one knows.. but none of you seem to know how to properly research.. or look into things yourselves.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 19:04pm


Never heard of them before. Ever.

Posted by denyo on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 19:18pm


Jinx Dawson is Totally hot.
Coven rock!

Posted by M.vagarus on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 19:34pm


M.vagarus... That doesn't have to do with anything

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 19:45pm


Hey just saying.
But really I have been following this thread,so I looked Coven up on myspace, and its some really great music. I wasn't around at the time than most of you it seems, and I am just getting into Coven as of now, and plan on purchasing the cds.

Shoutout to St. Jimmy on the mano deal,
yea its not cool or decent for Dio to do that,
being italian, I know what you are talking about.
I never gave much mind to him, don't like the little guy, but when I looked at pictures, I saw what you are talking about. My gramms would have boxed my ears for doing that sign in front of anyone. Without a reason that is hehehe.

Arguments have been interesting on both ends guys,
interesting points on both ends. I'm not taking sides since I am new to this band, I have to agree with Jimmy again on the music video business. It looks like some of the videos I saw growing up. And it is listed on the Coven Wikipedia listing as the first video, and on the Music Video, I see what he is saying, that cant be considered as valid information.

There is nothing wrong with really being into a band, we all at some point get really into bands.. it is those guys that help inspire future music, through contact and support. Its those guys that help inspire songs and music, it may be a lyric, or a note, but hey, hats off to those that really get into bands.

This thread on Coven has caught my eye and ear, and discovering some really good tunes, and further looking into.

Posted by m.vagarus on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 20:33pm


"1.Influence - it is known they were all " mingled " together.
2.Stealing or " Borrowing "
3.Using signs that one has no knowledge of.. as a form to Connect to his fans, which in fact, hes giving the " evil eye " to them, which isnt very honorable amonst those fans if they actually knew."

St Jimmy- all this reavels is MANY missed oppurtunities...
Alot of "I could of been a contender" examples
or "I was somebody,REALLY I was"

A TRUE talent needn't ride "someone elses coat tails".
Dawson sounds as Daemon pointed out "like a groupie" in her interview.

I'm starting to think you are as well...

Posted by Randy on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 21:27pm


"Bottom line Jimmy-
Unless Coven get "proper" accredit (never happen) from a universally acknowleded source such as The Guiness Book Of World Records or something akin outside of fanboys such as yourself (again not meant as an insult) it means squat to only you."

Ain't it the truth...

Posted by Bad Ronald on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 21:33pm


"Jinx Dawson is Totally hot.
Coven rock!"

Well go to her My Space and PM her!
She's broke,pushing 60,just had a massve heart attack...
Save up your paper route money and take her to Denny's.
Who knows maybe you'll get lucky,shouldn't be too hard at this point.

Posted by Demonoid on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 21:40pm


To Demonoid:
She looks like she could teach you a few things you never thought about doing.She looks in pretty good shape to me and I hear she kicks ass! In their newest interview she's working on a movie, she is starring in a horror flick as the sexy coroner who eats bodies.Can't wait to see that!

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:07pm


"Steve Ross was asked to join Rainbow...SO that tells that there was mingling together.. and that Dio's story of the " horns " is false. amonst other things.

Jinx was offered a Solo carreer

Chris Neilsen ( Guitar Player ) was asked to Join Rufus...

Matt Left out Jinx's Solo Career offer and that of Chris Neilsen."

^^ Jimmy-
All this reavels is MANY "missed" oppurtunities...
Alot of "I could of been a contender" examples
or "I was somebody,REALLY I was".
A TRUE talent needn't ride "someone elses coat tails".
Dawson sounds as Daemon pointed out "like a groupie" in her interview.
I'm starting to think you are as well...
Fine she knew name musicians etc.
She gets namechecked once in a blue moon by some upstart satanic band from the Netherlands...
Her having a major heart attack and almost dying didn't even make one MAJOR music publication.
Not blogs written by hacks,I'm talking MAJOR coverage.
To you she's big news.

As for Dio:
For a guy who goes on about PROPER research,you are having a debate by YOURSELF about "Dio".
Research THIS thread.
Not one of us has said he was the first to use the hand horn sign.
No one has challenged this!

As for Wikipedia...
In college one of the FIRST things the proffessor states:Wikipedia is NOT an accredited source,and if you site it for your research you will get an F.
News mag.60 Min. did a feature awhile ago on Wikipedia and they submitted bogus info. about a type of elephant to test how long it would be up there before exposed as fraud and deleted.
It was up for 6 months!
Point is it goes BOTH ways with Coven's entry and the first music video entry.

In a weird coincidence I was just talking with a friend about "Wicker Man" today,then I saw your comment here,GREAT film.

Posted by Randy on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:20pm


"She looks like she could teach you a few things you never thought about doing.She looks in pretty good shape to me and I hear she kicks ass!"
Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:07pm


She's 3 yrs shy of 60,just had a massive heart attack,almost freakin' died.
Had to wear/wears a pace maker.
She's "real" healthy.

Posted by Demonoid on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:35pm


"One" of the 1st music videos ever made directly for an album title song was produced by Jinx and the Coven with Disney Studios.

Taken verbatum (cut/pasted) from the Coven Wikipedia entry.

NOT "the first" music video.

Posted by Hound Dog Man on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:40pm


"She looks like she could teach you a few things you never thought about doing.She looks in pretty good shape to me and I hear she kicks ass!"
Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:07pm


She's 3 yrs shy of 60,just had a massive heart attack,almost freakin' died.
Had to wear/wears a pace maker.
She's reeeeal healthy.
I forgot to point out the fact i'm 24 and my grandmother is younger so it would be real creepy.
Peace!

Posted by Demonoid on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:46pm


Demonoid:I forgot to point out the fact i'm 24 and my grandmother is younger

WOW.Then by average, your grandmother and mother gave birth at 17! That's creepy................

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 22:55pm


I can't believe this Coven shit is still going on.

To all Coven fanboys and girls. Enjoy them; hope for a comeback. Whatever is cool. Just please stop trying to make us into believers. I listened to Coven before you were all born. They had some fanciful music and Jinx was hot 40 years ago. Now she is a Senior citizen looking to make ends meet. All the magic blessings to her. But leave it alone now. They are not getting in.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 00:27am


"In a weird coincidence I was just talking with a friend about "Wicker Man" today,then I saw your comment here,GREAT film."

Yes it is, and that is what the Tull screen reminded me of, The new version, I walked out of the Theatre.

""One" of the 1st music videos ever made directly for an album title song was produced by Jinx and the Coven with Disney Studios.

Taken verbatum (cut/pasted) from the Coven Wikipedia entry.

NOT "the first" music video.

Ok That made no sence at all.


"As for Wikipedia...
In college one of the FIRST things the proffessor states:Wikipedia is NOT an accredited source,and if you site it for your research you will get an F."

In that case you can toss out the Music Video page one Wikipedia, Its completely wrong, as well as the Band pages of all the bands listed on there. and pretty much everything else. that proves that no one did the first music video. Come on, someone Fills out those pages.. with accurate valid information.

" As for Dio:
For a guy who goes on about PROPER research,you are having a debate by YOURSELF about "Dio".
Research THIS thread.
Not one of us has said he was the first to use the hand horn sign."

I was pointing out, it should have caught someones eye that knew what I mentioned.. being that it didnt, no one knew lol.

"She gets namechecked once in a blue moon by some upstart satanic band from the Netherlands..."
America, Canada, England are just a few examples that Namecheck her and Coven... Since you are a music collector, The mentioned " Blood Ceremony " cd.. check it out.

"Her having a major heart attack and almost dying didn't even make one MAJOR music publication."

it was Mentioned by the Production Company of the Film she is to be in.
I think that is credible enough.
Triad Studios Presents The Resurrection of Jinx Dawson. where she has a part in a up comming film, " Out of the Basement " I believe the title. Looks like a great Horror flick. Dont Quote me on the title but its either out of or into, in the title.

"Dawson sounds as Daemon pointed out "like a groupie" in her interview.
I'm starting to think you are as well..."
Not a Groupie, I hold all musicians with high honor, they are Artists " Art " is the main part of the word, when you like " art " you want to find out more about them, and what and how they created the concepts.. I get into music and bands, its in my blood. and I hold the Artists and Musicians with high honor.. its one word.. Respect.. Show them respect and they show right back. so thats a big difference than being a Groupie. which is what some people whom I will remain nameless should learn... Respect.

Demonoid:I forgot to point out the fact i'm 24 and my grandmother is younger

WOW.Then by average, your grandmother and mother gave birth at 17! That's creepy................


and thats just scary.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 00:53am


And this is directed to M.Vagarus

At least SOMEBODY knew what I was talking about!

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 00:59am


I can't believe this Coven shit is still going on.

To all Coven fanboys and girls. Enjoy them; hope for a comeback. Whatever is cool. Just please stop trying to make us into believers. I listened to Coven before you were all born. They had some fanciful music and Jinx was hot 40 years ago. Now she is a Senior citizen looking to make ends meet. All the magic blessings to her. But leave it alone now. They are not getting in.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 00:27am

And your still reading it then... because.....
And BTW Jinx and Coven are making a comeback, and I can only hope that Jinx exposes A LOT in her book.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 01:01am


Demonoid:I forgot to point out the fact i'm 24 and my grandmother is younger.

I listened to Coven before you were all born. They had some fanciful music and Jinx was hot 40 years ago. Now she is a Senior citizen looking to make ends meet. All the magic blessings to her. But leave it alone now. They are not getting in.

Posted by Dameon

I don't understand why you are dissing the singer's age.I thought it had to be 25 years from your first record to get into this thing.So it would make most 45-50 years old before even qualifying.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 02:02am


I don't understand why you are dissing the singer's age.I thought it had to be 25 years from your first record to get into this thing.So it would make most 45-50 years old before even qualifying.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 02:02am

Exactly,
Age has nothing to do with it. Most of them just throw that up.. Remember Ozzy is just a few years older than Jinx..which made him 58 at the Black Sabbath induction in 06. so now hes the big 60 in December.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 03:30am


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywg-PdeGVL0

The attached "music video" was made and introduced on American Bandstand (about the only viable place for a "music video" to be introduced at the time) in 1967. It is a "music video" in every sense of the phrase. I believe it pre-dates Coven...so I think that about covers that little saga.

Now, as far as the occult goes, I don't think any puny human realies what they're dealing with when they dabble in it...Satan doesn't devulge that information until "later". Anyone who thinks otherwise is DEAD wrong!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 07:17am


Lilith - the reason many of us have brought up Jinx's age is because none of us sit and worship at any one musicians alter as Jimmy does with Jinx. Most of us speak here on bands and whether their musical chops have earned them induction. As far as Coven, their musical chops earn them a footnote in history and nothing else. And I think that is fine. They left a little scar on the musical landscape.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 10:08am


"I don't understand why you are dissing the singer's age.I thought it had to be 25 years from your first record to get into this thing.So it would make most 45-50 years old before even qualifying."

I wasn't dissing her age as far of getting in to the hall( which will never happen.
I was givin' a heads up to the one dude who said she was hot.
I gave him some friendly advice,she down on her luck.
IM her,I bet he could nail that if he had her rent money on hand.
Many before have I bet.

Posted by Deomonoid on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 10:18am


Unless Coven get "proper" accredit (never happen) from a universally acknowleded source such as The Guiness Book Of World Records..

Posted by Bad Ronald

I wasn't dissing her age as far of getting in to the hall( which will never happen.
I was givin' a heads up to the one dude who said she was hot.

Posted by Deomonoid

Now, as far as the occult goes, I don't think any puny human realies what they're dealing with when they dabble in it...Satan doesn't devulge that information until "later". Anyone who thinks otherwise is DEAD wrong!!

Posted by Gitarzan

I see.This is an old fashioned witchhunt.Ban and burn for someone's beliefs.
Are we now talking religion and cultural barriers in music now.If we are, I bet Coven was first on this issue.I am sure they hold the "world's record" for being banned and persecuted as a rock group.
Horns Up!

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 10:44am


"WOW.Then by average, your grandmother and mother gave birth at 17! That's creepy................


and thats just scary."

Well matter of fact I'm adopted...

Posted by Demonoid on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 10:53am


"Ok That made no sence at all".
(FYI it's "sense" (an academic researcher should know that) lol

What doesn't make "sence" ?
The Coven entry debunkes that declaration "they" made the FIRST rock music video.
(As argued here/elsewhere)
It states " of the first.
ONE".
The Wikipedia entry for "First music video made"
Doesn't mention Coven's Blood on the Snow video WHAT SO EVER!
Seems simple enough.

As for Wikipedia.

With you Jimmy there's no "grey" area, it's ALL or nothing.
I @ least see grey in this debate,even some black.
You're taking the comment to the extreme.
The point is Wikipedia has pros-cons as a reliable source.

As far as certain HIGH profile subject matter is concerned it's usually accurate.
Bands such as The Beatles,The Who,The Monkees,The Kinks etc have their history timelines WELL
DOCUMENTED by "accredited" musicoligists,historians.
(I'm not referring to sleaze,tabloid fodder,I mean FACT athat's on FILE as release dates etc).

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 11:04am


Demonoid-
Who cares about her age blah blah blah.
He contribution to "music" (although she did) Is minimal.
She was throwing the horns, BIG F@#$ING deal.
They had satanic lyrics early on.
BIG deal.
Do they deserve some credit? Sure.
The actual music they band made was very cliche' average as far as a listeing experience.
In a very short space others came along and turned it into something superior.
Coven did not invent heavy metal.
They helped create rock with "satanic trappings".
Lyrically,image wise not disputing it.

I like them,but there's NO incredible "playing" imo.
Sabbath most likey borrowed from them,but they created "music" that was (then) "revolutionary" with the actual music.
(i'm a Sabbath fan,but hardly a fanatic,so to whom it may concern- Please don't accuse me of being a fanboy.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 11:08am


Let's all remember one thing; Jinx has admitted that she is neither a witch (Wiccan or otherwise) or a Satanist. She believes or practices magic.

The problem here is not so much Coven, as it is Jimmy and a couple of the other fanboys that have appeared. Most of us have admitted to enjoying Coven and applaud them for what they did. This site is for discussion about induction into the Hall. And Coven doesn't meet the criteria because musically, they did nothing special.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 11:11am


"They're making a comeback"

LMAO!
A comeback to what?
There's bands that had huge hits from not that long ago (mid-late 90's) and were CONSTANTLY on the radio,MTV etc that are now having a hard time filling halls,small clubs with not 1 but 3 name acts on the bill @ a cheap ticket price.
Who's dying to see Coven live, if they could get 200 people worldwide they'd be lucky.
I love when a band that nobody cares about about besides a "select few" breakout "we/they are being persecuted defense.
I could care less about their beliefs as long as they never harm innocent people.

Posted by Randy on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 11:19am


Jimmy, That's fine,I'm a musician myself.
The point is Dawson seems to "go out of her way" to ram it down anyone who will listen throats about who she knew,blew, wot have you.
That's usually a tactic used in hopes of getting respect,adoration some sort of attention(at least the way she does it).
The MUSIC sounds very dated,corny @ times,the mass can only be listened to wot once (unless your into hearing a Monty Hall soundalike recite it for comedic relief.)

Unless her claims are "acknowledged by a universially accredited source" it means nothing.
(Not Wikipedia,not fanboys,not hack blog writers.)
What does this have to do with their RRHOF worthiness?
As previously stated L.A. is the music capital of THE world.
It's NOT UNCOMMON for a young attractive chick in the biz to be courted by fellow musicians etc.
EVERYBODY went to The Rainbow,Whiskey.
Many chicks FAR hotter then her.
If you're impressed (you obviously are by her)
Cool

Posted by My 5 cents worth on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 12:35pm


lilith...nope, I'm just talking about the power of the occult (in any matter you choose). It's just my belief that it's something that shouldn't be messed with by anyone...period. You can qoute me all you want to on that.

Like I said, it's my belief...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 16:49pm


I see.This is an old fashioned witchhunt.Ban and burn for someone's beliefs.Internet Witchhunters.
Are we now talking religion and cultural barriers in music now?If we are, I bet Coven was first on this issue.I am sure they hold the "world's record" for being banned, CENSORED and persecuted as a rock group for years.Photos and album covers were censored and their music was banned and whole tours were cancelled due to the content of their albums, their very shocking stage show and then because of the Manson murders.This went on thru their other albums.They took the brunt of the music biz censorship ordeal so bands now can present what they want.
Horns Up and Rock On I Say!


You probably think Johnny Rotten or Iggy or the Doors hold this record...

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 17:18pm


Highly unlikely. To do that you would have to have been...popular! You people give this group way too much credit...they were nothing special. trust me, there have been lots of groups and artists who have been banned, censored, and persecuted numerous times for a variety of reasons.

Like I said, outside of "One Tin Soldier", Coven was largely unknown. They usually didn't cancel tours for content, if record companies thought it would sell tickets, they really didn't care what a band did (unless it was illegal). They cancelled tours for POOR TICKET SALES!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 17:35pm


My 2 Cents :
What doesn't make "sence" ?
The Coven entry debunkes that declaration "they" made the FIRST rock music video.

My Reply: yea so a typo - comes with being a lil drunk.
The fact giving that you said youself that you can not go by Wikipedia, in a earlier post. so that throws that out. and what he copy and pasted, made no sence at all. here it is again,

""One" of the 1st music videos ever made directly for an album title song was produced by Jinx and the Coven with Disney Studios.

Taken verbatum (cut/pasted) from the Coven Wikipedia entry."

NOT "the first" music video.<--- his reply. unless

he was stateing his opinion and not backing up that its not the first video, which none of you can back it up saying its not. Cant use wikipedia cause its not reliable.

Me:
it was Mentioned by the Production Company of the Film she is to be in.
I think that is credible enough.
Triad Studios Presents The Resurrection of Jinx Dawson.

I pretty much gave the title of it when I posted it because I could not post link, said looks like to much spam. "The Resurrection of Jinx Dawson."
To me that is crediable after her heart attack. One of the Film Directors was working on a Project and didnt even know, I kept him updated. but in the end its crediable.

What does this have to do with the RNRHOF?
Well what did Sabbath bring into rock and roll? Nothing that I am aware of, not dissing Sabbath, I am a fan, but they didnt bring anything to RnR.
And IMO now Heaven and Hell are a cover band, when they had to / or changed thier names.. stories seem to differ there. I read that Geezer dropped out, good for him lol.

Dameon
The problem here is not so much Coven, as it is Jimmy and a couple of the other fanboys that have appeared. Most of us have admitted to enjoying Coven and applaud them for what they did. This site is for discussion about induction into the Hall. And Coven doesn't meet the criteria because musically, they did nothing special.

Me: if they did nothing special, then they didnt pave the way for Sabbath a yr Later with thier satanic but false satanic lyrics... Earth, Pulka Tulk Blues Band, and thier pre bands before those 2... Sure as Hell didnt come up with that sound alone, they were blues.
Again I posts as per you wished, magazine dates with article titles, The list goes on, yet you say Coven didnt do anything special..Oh but then again Im just a awestruck Teenager who refers to Charlie Manson as Uncle Charlie .. Ment in the Humor of it all.. as he has been Called before Many Times, wouldnt know anything.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 17:40pm


One thing I can definitely say about St. Jimmy...he certainly isn't a master of the OBVIOUS...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 18:09pm


Well what did Sabbath bring into rock and roll? Nothing that I am aware of, not dissing Sabbath, I am a fan, but they didnt bring anything to RnR.
(Jimmy the fanboy)

You are a knucklehead.

Here is the difference. Every friggin musician who plays hard rock/heavy metal cites Sabbath as their major influence: Metallica, Anthrax, Priest, Van Halen, Pantera, Slipnot, Smasihing Pumpkins, Type O Negative, Foo Fighters, White Zombie, Iron Maiden, etc., etc., etc.

This is called influence.

Now innovation. Even though is was because of Iommi's accident, their sound was different. Maybe other bands sang of evil before them, but their sound fitted that lyrical content differently than anyone before them.

Coven has none of this. Therefore Sabbath > Coven

And don't try and back out of your Uncle Charlie comment now just because we don't think it is cool.You lost what little creditabilty because of it. You meant none of that in humor. You have shown yourself to be a little awestruck little boy who's father and mother didn't slap you enough.

Personally I don't give a sh*t. Be a fan, that is what music is about. But please stop now. Every comment you make only makes you look more ridiculous.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 18:17pm


I just saw the funniest thing. They were interviewing a wrestler named Chris Jericho. From my understanding, he is the biggest whore in the Brothel called the WWE. He was commenting on the importance of Sabbath and wearing a Coven T-Shirt. He didn't mention jinx once. That kind of tells me everything I need to know.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 18:48pm


Coven Predates Sabbath.. therefore Sabbath was influenced..by dun dun dunnnn Coven.. and then those bands cite Sabbath as A influence, who was Influenced by Coven...Weither you want to believe it or not.. so I see some more influnce in there in modern bands. Minus the Smashing Pumpkins ~ Sharon Osbourne screwed that up.
There was nothing "Evil" lyrically about Sabbath.

Personally

I don't give a sh*t. Be a fan, that is what music is about. But please stop now. Every comment you make only makes you look more ridiculous.

Me:I can back up everything I say.

"Sabbath most likey borrowed from them,but they created "music" that was (then) "revolutionary" with the actual music."

Me: With that statement, I will say this, you have no clue to what was " borrowed " from Coven by Sabbath and Other Bands.

A Really Wise person relayed to me a message they were told, and its very true. by a great and very artistic man.

"It's better they talk bad about you than don't talk about you at all." ~ Frank Zappa.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 18:52pm


He was commenting on the importance of Sabbath and wearing a Coven T-Shirt. He didn't mention jinx once. That kind of tells me everything I need to know.

Posted by Dameon

Funny.Him just wearing the Coven t shirt tells me everything I need to know.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:08pm


I just saw the funniest thing. They were interviewing a wrestler named Chris Jericho. From my understanding, he is the biggest whore in the Brothel called the WWE. He was commenting on the importance of Sabbath and wearing a Coven T-Shirt. He didn't mention jinx once. That kind of tells me everything I need to know.
Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 18:48pm


Me: Maybe hes just another " Fan boy " like everyone seems to be. But hey He was wearing Coven, He got my Horns Up to em! Dunno who he is but he got my horns up!
I dont watch Media, but glad you enjoy it.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:11pm


Coven Predates Sabbath.. therefore Sabbath was influenced..by dun dun dunnnn Coven..--St. Jimmy


That's actually specious. Has Black Sabbath ever actually admitted to having been influenced by Coven? If not, you can't assume they were influenced by Coven just because Coven predates them. Black Sabbath was originally a blues band called Earth.... so like a LOT of British bands (Animals, Yardbirds, Rolling Stones, Cream, Led Zeppelin, etc.), it's more likely they drew a bit more influence from American blues acts than they did from Coven. I'm not assuming they were, just saying that it's actually more logical an explanation.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:16pm


Ahhh.You bring up a great subject for discussion.Since you all seem to be Sab fanboys.If Sab had NOT changed their name to Black Sabbath and kept the name Earth and not picked up the pseudo black arts shtick, would they be famous and loved by you today?

PS You do know there first single was a song published by Coven's publishing company Yuggoth Music don't you and the BS PR pics look suspiciously like Coven's skull pic AND their first Vertigo Record Co. WAS a subsidary of Coven's record co. Mercury.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:29pm


There are Connections between Coven and Sabbath..
Sabbath's first Single Evil Woman was a remake of Crow's.. Which was released through Coven's publishing Company.. Coven were on Mercury Records, and the British Bands such as The Yardbirds, and Cream, Pink Floyd, ect ect, They knew of Coven, because they were on the same bills as Coven.. And Coven and Sabbath have even been on the same Bills. So Sabbath were aware of Coven.


Weither they admit to it or not, They were spawned by Coven.. Coven Came First, plus the connections, it all adds up.

Keep thinking outside the box Philip
When Sabbath came out in 1970 Lester Bands did a article.. and it says..and this Pre dates that Coven did come first.

" Over across the tracks in the industrial side of Cream country lie unskilled laborers like Black Sabbath, which was hyped as a rockin' ritual celebration of the Satanic Mass or some such claptrap, something like Englands answer to Coven"

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:39pm


Lilith, I am not a fan per se of Sabbath. I like what I've heard, but I'm not hardcore for them by any means. Just pointing out a fact.

Sabbath would not be the first band to have a name that was a gimmick: the Who, the Guess Who, and just about any band/group with a pun to their name (Bill HALEY & his COMETS; Kathy YOUNG & the INNOCENTS, etc.) Schtick is schtick, no matter who it's from.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:41pm


PS You do know there first single was a song published by Coven's publishing company Yuggoth Music don't you and the BS PR pics look suspiciously like Coven's skull pic AND their first Vertigo Record Co. WAS a subsidary of Coven's record co. Mercury.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:29pm

Lilith, you hit it dead on.. atleast someone knows how to reasearch!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:42pm


Being aware of and being influenced by a band are two entirely different things. Stealing a gimmick of a band is different than actually being influenced by their MUSIC, which is what the Hall of Fame is about. Were Sabbath actually influenced by the MUSIC of Coven, or did they just steal their gimmickry?

On a separate note, I can't believe I'm in this discussion... I'm not even that big a fan of Sabbath.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:44pm


But we Did leave out, Coven had on the inverted Crosses, where as Sabbath had the " christian " cross.

You will have some argue that will say it was inspired by horror films or pictures, but I say thats more than just coincidence.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:48pm


Well, gee whiz...!!! Elvis recorded his first record for RCA in 1956. Arthur Fiedler & the Boston Pops recorded one just before that with RCA. Could there be a connection...???

Oh, and Black Sabbath got their name from some "B" horror flick...don't think Coven had anything to do with it. If you use the six points of seperation, maybe Coven influenced Kevin Bacon...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:53pm


Being aware of and being influenced by a band are two entirely different things. Stealing a gimmick of a band is different than actually being influenced by their MUSIC, which is what the Hall of Fame is about. Were Sabbath actually influenced by the MUSIC of Coven, or did they just steal their gimmickry?

Me: The Gimmickry was thrown out
1. the christian crosses, therefore not satanic..
2. Geezer Butler states on the Black Sabbath Story Vol 1. ( The Ozzy Years )
That thier songs were Anti - Satanic. Although he admitted to being interested in the Occult. But the songs were anti satanic.

as I had posted earlier there was more "borrowing" = stealing than it is known. Sabbath were influenced by Coven.

Around that time, unlike now, its common to see a woman front this Gothic, Satanic, Music, but in the late 60's and early 70's it was unheard of, so therefore Sabbath had a better chance at winning that one out.



Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:57pm


So, if I may dare ask this again... how were Black Sabbath influenced MUSICALLY by Coven. Admittedly, I'm only skimming this thread, but you've basically proven the point that they didn't take their lead from Coven when it came to the actual music.

"Around that time, unlike now, its common to see a woman front this Gothic, Satanic, Music, but in the late 60's and early 70's it was unheard of, so therefore Sabbath had a better chance at winning that one out."

Wait... did you just play the sexism card? If anything, that would IMPROVE their chances. The Nominating Committee seems to make a conscious effort to nominate at least one female artist or female fronted band every year.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 20:03pm


Oh, and Black Sabbath got their name from some "B" horror flick...don't think Coven had anything to do with it. If you use the six points of seperation, maybe Coven influenced Kevin Bacon...

Well its rather a coincidence That Sabbath had a opening track Called Black Sabbath, Even tho as far as we know they got the name from the Boris Karloff picture. No one has said any different. on Witchcraft, Coven had the opening track " Black Sabbath."
And Sabbath had the single Evil Woman.
Coven Had Wicked Woman.
Coven's album Cover from 1969, and the Sabbath picture are almost the same, only difference is the crosses, Coven - inverted
Sabbath - Christian
The Connections through the Publishing company?
coincidence
or Chance?

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 20:04pm


Wait... did you just play the sexism card? If anything, that would IMPROVE their chances. The Nominating Committee seems to make a conscious effort to nominate at least one female artist or female fronted band every year.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 20:03pm

, Did you see Grace Slick doing this kind of music, Janis Joplin, Nico, the list goes on...
MGM did not go for the dark arts that was introduced in the first album.. so the band went back to the bluesy street sound they had before..
With Blood on the snow, They tried to sneak in elements of the first album into that album..
A woman fronting this kind of music was un heard of, and lables didnt know what to do with them.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 20:08pm


"A woman fronting this kind of music was un heard of, and lables didnt know what to do with them"

Right, exactly... which again would IMPROVE their chances of induction if the MUSIC itself was of serious innovation or influence, compounded with the fact that the committee tries to induct a woman artist/fronted band every year. But they're not... they're not even being considered despite having all these other politics cards stacked in their favor. Which leads to the conclusion that maybe their omission has something to do with the music itself, which is what it's supposed to come down to in the end.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 20:16pm


Musically speaking Philip, Coven inspired and created a Genre of music with that first album.. its called Black Metal, and that can be incorp'ed into Gothic Metal / Rock
Coven were the pioneers of this style of music, Which Sabbath incorp.. for thier first albums from Black Sabbath To Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, The doom and gloom element. and the inspiration for the song Supertzar, which the intro is very much like on the into to Covens Blood on the Snow, which is on the Sabbath album Sabotage released 1975. Covens Blood on the Snow was a yr before that.
1974.

Musicially speaking Philip this is the style / influence that Coven had.. They are the pioneers of this style music.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 20:49pm


Ok, so I looked up Blood on the Snow on you tube, and played Supertzar.
My conclusion comes to this.
I see what you speak of, the vocal harmonies are almost the same, esp around 34 or 35 seconds into the Sabbath song.

Maybe there is actually more than what these guys have let on and for us to believe. And IMO that constitutes not borrowing, thats copying, stealing.
and re-reading this thread, the mention of Stevie Nicks, at first, I was like oh come on that cant be, But hearing Blood on the Snow, I deff see some influence, and if you hit that right not that I heard in Blood on the Snow, Boom you got Edge of Seventeen.

The dude that mentioned the Wikipedia, he contradicted what he typed, first you can't believe it, then you can when it comes to Musicians, I am sure someone filled out Coven's entry exactly as it is listed historically.

And those mentioned books IF they do cite Coven as the " ROOTS " of this style music, then that is influence directly, and not only that, its inspiration!.

Posted by M.Vagarus on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 22:16pm


Based on what I've read here I believe Coven deserves at least some credit for influence as far as the Satanic gimmickry goes.

But the real person responsible for introducing Satanism into pop culture in a fun way was Anton LaVey who started the Church Of Satan in San Francisco (where else?) in 1966 (of course).

Posted by classicrocker on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 23:17pm


And those mentioned books IF they do cite Coven as the " ROOTS " of this style music, then that is influence directly, and not only that, its inspiration!.

Posted by M.Vagarus

"Lords of Chaos" has Coven's story listed as first and also "Lucifer Rising" among many other books.Coven's myspace page has some of these book pages there.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 23:24pm


Philip, you brought up a interesting convo.

Interesting, its all very interesting.
Is Coven's bass player name not Oz Osborne? or he just goes by that name?
And having a connection from America to England through publishing, subsidary of the record company, No one can actually pinpoint when John Michael Osbourne, as he was know then, became Ozzy Osbourne. Because If I remember correctly, there was a advert that read " Ozzy Zig requires Gig " and the members of The Sab's were in prior bands, such as Ozzy and Geezer were in Rare Breed? Tony and Bill in Mythology? When they formed and had the name The Polka Tulk Blues Company,then changed the name to Earth, and the main reason for that name change was, there was another band called Earth. Was Coven not already formed and in the process of recording a Album under Mercury records? Because it is known that Coven were formed and doing thier songs pre-witchcraft album. Because if memory serves me correctly, the Witchcraft album came out in early 1969. Where as The Sab's album was released mid if not late 1970. That is correct on the Coven album because Jinx had just turned 18, and if St. Jimmy is right, her birth month is in January.

What I am thinking is, did the Members of The Sab's , knowingly or unknowingly rip them off?
And I did notice this, the start of Coven's song Black Sabbath, and The Sab's song Black Sabbath,'
has a alike tone, except Coven's does change tempo, where The Sab's is more Down Tempo, tuned down guitar, and don't change tempo until the last few moments of the song.

~ St. Jimmy ~, You make some interesting points also. Do not let those others try to keep you from making all these points. When some of them are not being arses, it gets into a interesting read.

Posted by innocent by pass on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 23:33pm


"Lords of Chaos" has Coven's story listed as first and also "Lucifer Rising" among many other books.Coven's myspace page has some of these book pages there.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 23:24pm

Thnx, I will Deff be looking into those also. Has Danni Filth's book come out? I heard that he Cites Coven also.

Well those books cite Coven at the beginning of this form of music, there is no denying direct influence, being cited or not thats influence to a direct music style. And there is no denying that.

Posted by M.Vagarus. on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 23:47pm


wow, so its possible that a woman who fronted a band is responsible for heavy metal, cuz black metal does fall into that list. (the music scares the hell out of me lol. )
guess those metal boys need to bow to the queen of metal..
its kinda like Blondie starting the whole rap thing, in a different way. she popularized it and made the first rap video. lol.. guess those guys werent really original to begin with.

Posted by Lord Satan666 on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 00:33am


There is one more thing I wanted to say, it's irked me since I started following this thread, You guys seem to want to bash the ones that can back up what they say, I dunno why you refer to certain people as " Fan Boy's " yea they are fans, they maybe get into certain bands more than some of us. Music is their kick, the drive, is that not what music is really about? Getting a hardcore, loyal fan base? showing support, loyality, helping the bands / musicians get their artist view out, without loyal dedicated fans, those visions may have never been released out to us. And that does not consider one a groupie. I call it a damn good loyal fan!

Not a one of you can back up anything you say, I have only seen 4 people on this thread that I would even consider knowing what they are talking about. You guys say you enjoyed or enjoy Coven, but then you talk trash about them and make rude, not so funny remarks about the lead singer, just to make it look as you have a important comment to make, well truth be known, its tacky. And I can see where their loyal fans get disgusted at the remarks you make.

Before I posted here, not a one of you could back up anything you had to say, you wanted arguments, Matt Flash gave a detailed timeline, St.Jimmy has pointed out things, and he seems to back up what he can say, Lilith seems to know her stuff too, Druwydion Pendragon, his post confirms that other bands listened to Coven, and that goes into play with the Black Sabbath conversation. All you guys could say is, " They were just a footnote and an not important one at that." I saw a list of mag's that Jimmy listed, even though they were not feature article, its mag articles about or on the band, hell there was even a listed modern band from Canada, that I was not aware of, Checked it out, and who do I see in the influences, Coven, that was all the proof I needed.

And discrediting Jimmy on the whole "Uncle Charlie "phrasing, well I heard Bill Maher say that so I guess that discredits him also as a human being. I can't speak for Jimmy because I don't know him, but I do not condone with what happend back then, I was not around at that time. You can not cast a sour word amonst anyone that wants to learn, you know the phrase " Knowledge is Power." Hell there are things I don't understand about that case. And then again, maybe we are not supposed to understand.

And the Mention of no Coven in certain books, well did you ever stop to think that there might be reasons for that? It seems that Coven has been the best kept secret in the music business, and so what if no band / musician cite them as a direct influence, there are books that cite them as a direct pioneer of this style music, that in its self shows direct influence. So musicians to follow are directly influenced by Coven, Including Black Sabbath, and those influenced by Black Sabbath.

Posted by M.Vagarus on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 02:47am


No one is trashing Coven. The site has to do with induction into the Hall. Coven meets none of the stated Criteria. We call some fanboys because they try and spin reality into some sort of fantasy. When someone (Jimmy) makes a statement that Sabbath was influenced by Coven, hence Coven influenced the genre as a whole, I have to laugh. There is no documented proof of this. When they take coincidence and turn it into a conspiracy against that band they love, then I laugh harder. Coincidence here being the title "Black Sabbath". I personally don't care what someone thinks or what a writer has to say. When it comes to "Influence" in music, then I listen to the musicians themselves. Why would just about every band in the world admit to who they were influenced by but hold back on admitting that Jinx and the boys were one of them? It certainly has nothing to do with Jinx being a woman in that era because I have read and heard to many musicians admit to Janis, Tina, Etta, etc. as having been a major influence. So I ask the simple question, why? Is there some sort of collusion out there in the music world to keep Jinx buried in the footnotes of history. Associations with other bands does not automatically mean influence. Shared record labels or producers and engineers means squat.

Coven did not innovate anything and please do not mention the horn symbol. I am so tired of it. I don't want to hear about Satan. It is tiresome. There is no winged, horned fallen angel that is lurking anywhere. The creation of this image was created by Christians to try and demonize Pagan celebrations. And for the last time, Jinx herself admits to being neither a Satanist or witch.

And for the last line of the criteria set forth by the Hall; Coven did nothing to perpetuate the artform because 99.9% of the world has no idea who the hell they are.

So that is it. My issues with Jimmy have less to do with Coven then it does with his hardcore antics here. First he comments on Manson as if it was cool and then he turns it around and try to sell it off as humor. That pisses me off even more.

As for Coven, I wish Jinx well with her career. I hope she does good. Lord knows Rock needs some strong women in it. Maybe now she can have the impact that she claims she once had. But I will state for the last time, Coven has no place in this RnR Hall of Fame. Personally, I wish they would just blow the damn place up and the nominating committee with it.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 08:03am


M.Vagarus...it's funny how a band who was almost totally unknown during that time (if you were alive and aware of popular music at the time, you'd surely know) can be so heavily influential. the examples I've given needed to be listened to...which you obviously didn't. If Coven has a few loyal fans...cool!!! But don't make them into something they simply weren't. Referring to Jinx Dawson as the "queen of metal"...oh, brother!!! If by some miniscule chance Sabbath were influenced by Coven, then by popularity and influence alone Sabbath obviously did it better.

To better myself as a player I listened to what they had to say as well as the way they played. In interviews I've read by Tony Iommi, he certainly never mentions them as an influence...at all!!! He was influenced by blues players (like pretty much everyone else at the time was). Neither has Jimmy Page.

Now in one breath you say Coven was never mentioned in books and there might be reasons for that (which is pretty obvious why they weren't mentioned much), and then you say there are books that cite them as a direct pioneer...that's called a contradiction...which is it??? Like I said before, if you lived had any interest at all in rock music during that time, the only song you heard was "One Tin Soldier" which didn't resemble metal at all. That is the only fact I see that matters at all...the proof was in listening (or lack thereof), not in books!!!

There's an old saying..."Don't believe everything you read...!!!"

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 08:10am


When you have someone like Danni Filth from the metal band Cradle of Filth, Do or work on a book that is like a family tree of metal, and he "cites " Coven as the starters of this music..thats direct influence to this style, and inspiration. That is the start and beginning of this form of music. And those that follow this style are directly influenced. weither or not they name them as a influence.

On the books, you guys named off, on Alice Cooper, Kiss and so on, I am speaking of Books that cite and trace this to the roots of this style music. Maybe there are reasons why they were never mentioned among those bands / musicians.. who knows why, Not you, Not Jimmy, ( Unless he knows things that he can't speak about. ) the only truth that is going to come from is from the parties involved.. that would be Coven Vs. The other bands and musicians.

On the Charlie Manson deal, who ever it was that mentioned or name checked Manson, he asked What does Uncle Charlie have to do with this. SO that can be taken 2 ways. Between what he said, and that it was mentioned in this thread. And his hardcore antics, Dude, he is a loyal fan to this band.. he is going to argue and post points and facts, to help you see where he is comming from.. you dont discuss them, you want to argue about it.
Charlie Manson actually had no association with this conversation, And being that he is still a touchy subject to some, you mentions someone like Charlie Manson, your going to get a reply back with something like he said. As I said Bill Maher has called Charlie Manson Uncle Charlie. Thing is Dameon, its typeing, you cant tell if its a joke or not. Who knows if he ment it as a joke or not, only him.

Associations with other bands does not automatically mean influence. Shared record labels or producers and engineers means squat.

[M.Vagarus ] and how do we really know when it comes down to it, that those associations were not influenced, Fact being, we don't know. That is between Coven and The Bands / Musicians. We have only gone by interviews from those musicians, but the label association, does have some very interesting points, it proves that they were associated other than sharing the same stage.

Posted by M.Vagarus on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 08:53am


To Gitarzan:

"One Tin Soldier" was simply a movie title song sung by Jinx at a session with the soundtrack orchestra.She is part Cherokee, the film was about Indians and said she would help out after Linda Rondstadt was unable to do the session.She did many soundtracks, even participated on "The Wall", as she was close to Bob Ezrin. Entertainers did sessions back then.She had no idea her vocal would make that a hit song.She did not go against her beliefs.She simply loved all types of music. She was a trained opera singer.

And in answewr to this comment:"Is there some sort of collusion out there in the music world to keep Jinx buried in the footnotes of history."

Yes, Christianity.Coven was banned by Christian leaders in many cities.There were letter drives from churches to the record companies.Read the 2 books I mentioned above, especially "Lords of Chaos" "The Rise of the Bloody Metal Underground".Coven is listed as first.Good researched reading.

Posted by lilith on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 09:00am


Now you know as well as I do (if you live in the states) that Christian leaders don't have the power to "ban" anything!! Oh, they can stir up a stink, but banning a concert for their beliefs is called "unconstitutional"...can't happen if they're not doing anything illegal. That sort of thing usually leads young, inquisitive minds to be more curious, which raises the popularity. That sort of thing never happened with Coven that I'm aware of, and I'd like to think I was "with it" as far as popular music culture in the 60's. Blaming Christianity is absolutely absurd, because rebellion against society is usually what actually increased a lot of bands' popularity.

Now, who is Danni Filth and what makes him such an expert? I played in a rock band, and I'd never claim to be able to make a "family tree" of rock. A lot of people over the years have written a lot of books on a lot of subjects that were regarded as "hogwash" to people that actually experienced events over the years. I have found that true rock historians...people who were actually there...consider Coven as just a small part of rock history.

Watch the "History of Rock & Roll". It has a whole section on "metal", including its roots, and you tell me if Coven is mentioned. This series is a pretty reliable source for rock history and the people interviewed happen to be the performers. Another would be the VH-1 special "Heavy: The History of Metal". Once again, interviews by the people who performed it from the beginnning, and NO mention of Coven.

I'll take the word of the performers and producers over "Danni Filth"! The thing that's keeping Jinx and Coven buried in the footnotes of rock history is the fact that they were an average, mostly obscure band...at best. The people who lived and followed music during that time or the performers themselves will tell you that in a minute!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 09:52am


Yes, Christianity.Coven was banned by Christian leaders in many cities(Lilith)

RnR was banned by churches since its inception. Dancing was banned by some churches. Maybe we should induct the Christian Right for being such idiots and influencing what we listened to. Motown could not play hundreds of venues down south due to the prejudices of the day. Guess what; the music still got heard. They were still very influential. Were Coven banned from playing a few venues; I am sure. So were the Doors, Alice Cooper and many others. Here is the thing - what the establishment rejected and repeled usually caused the kids to rebel against that establishment even more. Just look what happened when the PMRC forced the record labels to put warnings on albums that were deemed to have explicit lyrics. Sales went through the roof. Forget about just selling a million units, bands were now selling 6 and 7 million units. Kids were drawn to it because of the hype behind the PMRC. This has been the history of RnR, the more they were put upon by the establishment, the bigger the band got. Except in the case of Coven. Why? Can someone please tell me why? In my opinion, because they could not connect with the general audience. Why; Because the music itself was middling at best. I don't believe Coven ever really knew exactly what they were as far as being a band is concerned. And in the end, this uncertainity kept them no more than what they were. Maybe they had poor mgmt.; I don't know.

When you have someone like Danni Filth (Vagurus)

You give me one musician; I will give you a hundred that say different. Here is the thing. Did Coven influence some musicians - I would have to answer yes to that. Someone always connects with someone else. Is this influence actually influential. The majority of everything I have read, seen and heard tell me that Sabbath, Zeppelin, Purple, Alice Cooper and a few others were the major influences. Personally, as a musician, I can tell you that nowhere in my years did I ever get excited about a Coven track. I didn't try to ever piece the music together because to me, it was not inspiring.

Coven as the starters of this music..thats direct influence to this style (Varugus)

If we use this logic, then Rory Storm and the Hurricanes should also be in the HoF. They were contemporaries of the Beatles. They were definitely more popular than the Beatles back in the day and were playing in the clubs before the Beatles were. They knew each other; hell, the Beatles even stole their drummer.

She was a trained opera singer. (Lilith)

So is Pat Benetar (I believe) and she is not in the Hall either. But here is the kicker and please forgive me for using a "list". I hate lists but will use this just as an example. VH1 did a poll about 10 years ago. Only musicians and industry people were allowed to partake in this poll. The List was "The 100 Greatest Women of Rock and Roll" - Jinx is nowehere to be found on this list. Why? I agree that these lists can be manipulated but they do give you a basic idea of things. If we are so sure that she influenced Stevie Nicks, then why doesn't anyone admit to this? Why is the world against Coven? Can one of you please tell me. She has never been deemed the Anti-Christ; has she?

I am begging you please; give me some logical reason why they should be inducted into the Hall. I genuflect to all their fans. You are loyal and I hope you keep their music alive. But please give me more than what you have so far. A couple of minor articles and one book which was written or helped with by Filth is just not enough.

And Lilith, if I ever have time in my precious life to kill on the subject of the "Bloody Metal Underground" or "Death Metal", I will read your suggestions. Right now, the only death metal that I read about are the bombs that are killing our boys overseas.

I am so going out and looking at pretty women now.


Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 09:55am


Dameon...I wanted to address this to you, because we're probably close to the same age. I posted the video of Iron Butterfly on their page performing "Iron Butterfly Theme" because of the year it was performed, and how it reaches out and "slaps" you as far as its influence on metal (plus I thought people like you would enjoy it).

My question is; do you think any of these Coven fans watched it? My thought is that it's a little too real for them...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 10:08am


"The dude that mentioned the Wikipedia, he contradicted what he typed, first you can't believe it, then you can when it comes to Musicians, I am sure someone filled out Coven's entry exactly as it is listed historically."

That would be me,and I didn't contradict myself.
I pointed out that Wikipedia IS an accurate source in MANY instances with subject matter that is HIGH profile.
So the examples of the FIRST music video entry I believe to be accurate as those artists were all HIGH profile.
i.e. The Who, The Kinks,The Beatles etc

I then pointed out it wasn't an accreditted source by anyone.
I copied verbatum from Covens Wiki entry:
"One" of the 1st music videos ever made directly for an album title song was produced by Jinx and the Coven with Disney Studios."

This contaricts Coven made "the" first music video theory in their OWN entry.

Posted by My 2 cents worth on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 10:29am


"Well go to her My Space and PM her!
She's broke,pushing 60,just had a massve heart attack...
Save up your paper route money and take her to Denny's.
Who knows maybe you'll get lucky,shouldn't be too hard at this point."

OUCH!! ROFL
hey she's elible for social security soon.

Posted by Kim on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 10:41am


From reading this thread i think St Jimmy and Lilith and Vargas are all the same person!!!!!!
lol
what a goof
my boyfriend and i both like metal,black metal.
we downloaded the coven album witchcraft from the internet expecting something good and it SUCKS!!!
it's like a parody album,we wer're laughing so hard.
the one dude on the cover reminded me when i was in highschool cause he looks like my guidence counselor.
He was regarded as a big dork too!

They might of been one of the first but they were FAR from one of the BEST!

Really glad bloggers post these type albums so you can check them out for free and NOT waste your money
Kim

Posted by Kim on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 10:53am


"On the books, you guys named off, on Alice Cooper, Kiss and so on, I am speaking of Books that cite and trace this to the roots of this style music."

"on the books" one of the first posts claimed those acts were all influenced by Coven that's how they got into this convo.

"On the Charlie Manson deal"

Manson figures in the story cause there was a pic of Manson holding the Shitcraft album in Esquire mag. all those yrs ago.
They claim Mercury pulled it because of this being so scandalous.

A poster pointed out that The Beatles White Album figured MUCH more in the Manson story being he could be seen on the nightly news quoting their lyrics.
Plus of course the sicko chicks painted Helter Skelter in blood after MURDERING INNOCENT people.

Yet The Beatles label never removed The White Album from being pressed.
MUCH MORE of a scandaleous connection than some stupid childish mass gimmick.

Posted by Randy on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 11:08am


"Well go to her My Space and PM her!
She's broke,pushing 60,just had a massve heart attack...
"Save up your paper route money and take her to Denny's.
Who knows maybe you'll get lucky,shouldn't be too hard at this point."

"OUCH!! ROFL
hey she's elible for social security soon."

Yeah that is pretty hysterical
and so TRUE!

So can we buy her "big" movie direct to dvd or can we download for free for a hoot when it comes out?
Cause as anyone knows it AIN"T gonna be a big budget affair,get seen by many people.

"It seems that Coven has been the best kept secret in the music business"

Now I'm REALLY LMAO!
The record companies only care about profits,they orig labels NEVER reissued the Coven catalog from their orig. date of issue to present.
No demand on a "large scale" = no profit=waste of time.
They reissued One Tin Soldier multiple times because they're a one hit wonder and it made them some coin.

All the coven fanboys,you do realise this site is for fun,not affiliated with the RRHOF and has in NO way garnered them any attention in a positive way.
Except as a trivia question.

Posted by Demonoid on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 11:26am


Now you know as well as I do (if you live in the states) that Christian leaders don't have the power to "ban" anything!! Oh, they can stir up a stink, but banning a concert for their beliefs is called "unconstitutional"...can't happen if they're not doing anything illegal. That sort of thing usually leads young, inquisitive minds to be more curious, which raises the popularity. That sort of thing never happened with Coven that I'm aware of, and I'd like to think I was "with it" as far as popular music culture in the 60's. Blaming Christianity is absolutely absurd, because rebellion against society is usually what actually increased a lot of bands' popularity.

Posted by Girarzan

When Coven headlined the first Black Arts Festival in 1969, they were told to speak NO ENGLISH ONLY LATIN and were BANNED by church leaders and government officials from placing their alter and live Jesus on the cross(which they turned upside down at the end of the performance).When Jinx said "Happy All Hallows Eve Detroit" in English after the 4th song, they were pulled off the stage, arrested and the concert was stopped.This fact is well documented in Detroit News, etc.

"Unconstitutional"? When did that matter? What country are you living in?

Posted by lilith on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 11:36am


"They took the brunt of the music biz censorship ordeal so bands now can present what they want."

Jimmy/Lilith (being your the same person anyway)

There were MANY more shocking banned(what's so shocking about Coven 2,Blood On The Snow's covers?)album covers PRE them.

Some might be obscure imports but they out there in abundance.
Many jazz albums during the early 60's had satanic type artwork to btw.
Nothing to do with being satanic,just art for ats sake.

Posted by Bub on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 11:59am


Lilith - I am going to say to you what I said to Jimmy. I certainly am not trying to turn you against the music and artists you love. You are a loyal fan; great. But are you a fan because of their music or because of what you believe they represent? I am not trying to be cynical with this question, just being curious. I am old and as I have looked back over the years, I remember liking some bands not so much for the music, but for what and how I represented them in my own mind.

This site was created for interesting conversation on the subject of any band's chances of being inducted into the Hall. If you read some of the other group boards, you will see how many of us are disgusted with how the governing body of that establishment has handled many artists. But that is what the discussion is about.

This Coven discussion has been interesting at times, but as of late and for the most part, it has been boring. And the reason for that is the music itself has disappeared from the conversation. We all remember music; notes, chord progressions, verse - chorus bridges, musicianship, etc., but none of this appears in any of your conversation. We have discussed stage theatrics, belief systems, conspiracies, black magic, etc., etc. It is the music that gets you into the Hall, not the b.s. What did they do for music as an artform? The answer is - not much.

I wish Jinx a wonderful comeback. If her movies makes it to cable, I will watch it. If you want to see a movie about a truly influential band, watch the one on Joy Division. I enjoyed it and I am not a very big fan. But I do appreciate what they meant to music and Rock as an artform.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 12:06pm


Believe me .....I am not a dude.....

Posted by lilith on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 12:07pm


lilith...maybe arrested, but probably not convicted of anything. I'm sure "constitutional rights" were brought up almost immediately and the whole thing was swept under the table...as in most cases. U.S. history is full of people trying to shove their beliefs down other people's throats...doesn't mean it's fair or legal. Rock & Roll is full of these stories. Elvis had his Florida concerts in 1956 filmed by the police. He was accused of being obscene just by the way he moved. As far as I know, blasphemy isn't illegal, that would be against "seperation of church and state".

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 12:11pm


lilith...at least people like Dameon, Philip, etc...try to give a learned and intelligent response. Look what that "martin" said about Katy Perry...how would you like to deal with "profound" statements like that??

When it comes down to it, it's all subjective, anyway. I would talk more about Coven's musical contributions, but there really isn't that much there. Like I mentioned, go watch and listen to the Iron Butterfly video...it'll be pretty evident why I think the way I do about who the precursors to metal are...it's obvious!! All you have to do is listen. I've listened to Coven, and I just don't see (or hear) it.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 12:25pm


"Well go to her My Space and PM her!
She's broke,pushing 60,just had a massve heart attack...
"Save up your paper route money and take her to Denny's.
Who knows maybe you'll get lucky,shouldn't be too hard at this point."

"OUCH!! ROFL
hey she's elible for social security soon."

Yeah that is pretty hysterical
and so TRUE!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Whoever posted that originally I missed it first time.
I almost spit out my iced tea you f@#$a
made me laugh so hard.
It's TRUE!

Dawson is just trying to get noticed, it's an insult to all the actual EXCEPTIONAL musicians,songwriters that didn't rely on a gimmick that a band as this would get into TRRHOF.
Maybe and that's a very slim maybe Coven would get in like 50yrs.
I still say if were going to go by important contributions induct Jim Marshall.
He was a drummer,invented the Marshall amplifier which I think helped shape rock and roll much more in sound,style than a hand sign,satan.

"Believe me .....I am not a dude....."
Lol well that "totally" devalues that theory.
Jimmy/Lilith

Posted by My 2 cent worth on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 12:28pm


"...maybe arrested, but probably not convicted of anything. I'm sure "constitutional rights" were brought up almost immediately and the whole thing was swept under the table...as in most cases"

Agreed,and where's all the "original" press clippings/coverage for these "events" in the coven scrapbook outside of the "one" suppossed letter sent (for publicity street cred. I wouldn't doubt that it was fabricated).

Jimmy's "style" of debate is to obcure the reply he gets,or dircet question he was asked by posting the same few books/mag. articles or total avoidance by rambling about unrelated band trivia in hope that this will inspire that he is a credible source/expert.
After he of course Googled,or ran to his hope chest where he stores his vintage Coven info.

It's never answered if the aforementioned books etc ran a full feature on the group or it was a small album review,mention of them.
When confronted his reply is 'it doesn't matter what it was".
Lol

"Lilith seems to know her stuff too, Druwydion Pendragon"

You're Never Alone with a Schizophrenic,i.e. they're most likely ALL the same person as well = Jimmy

Posted by Dale on Trent on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 12:50pm


As far as I know, as long as you have a legitimate e-mail address, you can change your "name" every time you post a comment...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 13:10pm


Lilith - I never once thought you were a dude.

Just the thought of some guy changing his ID here to give the commentary a female touch is just sick.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 13:17pm


Thou dearest St.Jimmy----
Thou are concerned that thou will have thy heart broken once thy "big" Coven comeback taketh place and your hearts true loveth Jinx movie career taketh offeth.
Thy St.Jimmy will be left behind, in a spew of black demon spawn...
Only left with thy 8X 10 eth glossy (available at the coven gift shop by theth wayeth for only $9.99)to mourn over.
All thy effort and rallying doneth in vain.

Posted by Walter Cronoskite on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 15:02pm


"But hearing Blood on the Snow, I deff see some influence"

That would be the "basic" rock cliched guitar riff that was done to death before and since.

"As far as I know, as long as you have a legitimate e-mail address, you can change your "name" every time you post a comment..."

It's suspicious that the only people "jimmy" argees with are those that agree and support this lame ass band.


Posted by Dale on Trent on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 15:12pm


I came to this site to vote for Coven because I like them.I love Jinx's voice.Black Swan is my favorite song.I got curious and went to other bands here to see comments and notice there are only a few comments for much more famous bands, but they were all bad too.What is this, a music bashing site? Not my cup of tea.

Posted by lilith on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 16:19pm


Thou dearest St.Jimmy----
Thou are concerned that thou will have thy heart broken once thy "big" Coven comeback taketh place and your hearts true loveth Jinx movie career taketh offeth.
Thy St.Jimmy will be left behind, in a spew of black demon spawn...
Only left with thy 8X 10 eth glossy (available at the coven gift shop by theth wayeth for only $9.99)to mourn over.
All thy effort and rallying doneth in vain.

Posted by Walter Cronoskite on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 15:02pm

What a Moron.. cant even get the "Old English" Correct. wtf do you know about rock and roll and its history? seems you cant even get " goth " correct per say.

Posted by ~ St Jimmy~ on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 17:13pm


Let's cut the Coven crap already

Posted by Harrison on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 19:58pm


Wow, you guys are really amusing, you front a loosing argument, then you make assumptions.. sad.
Well hey at least you did a little thinking, wrong, but hey its a thought. With that said about the valid email address, that shows that you guys are silly enough to do it. Which proves some of the lame ass comments.

Not a one of you can prove me wrong,
you post a book that~
1. Looked the Author up, said he was a worldly known musician... funny he has no listing on the internet.
2. He provided false information about birth date, number of songs, he said 1-2. Proof being 3. Even if it was 40 years, he should be more accurate
3. If he was a part of that project, some where in the little halls of rock and roll history, he would be listed... he isnt.

There are books that cite and reconize Jinx Dawson and Coven, as " Pioneers of Black Metal "
Black Metal includes the following,
1. Satanic and Gothic Themes
2. Doom and Gloom themes
3. So that means all bands that incorporated those elements into their songs, music and whatnot, are the offspring of Coven.
Black Sabbath Incorp'ed that those elements into thier first 5 albums. after that they just went with the flow.

Really glad bloggers post these type albums so you can check them out for free and NOT waste your money
Kim
ME: Thats stealing so that pretty much tells us what kind of person you really are. your not a fan, your a thief.

"The record companies only care about profits,they orig labels NEVER reissued the Coven catalog from their orig. date of issue to present."

Me: They claim that the master tapes were destroyed in a " occult " fire.

After he of course Googled,or ran to his hope chest where he stores his vintage Coven info.

Me: You yourself quoted miss information about internet search. Mine is accurate.

go watch and listen to the Iron Butterfly video.

Me: SO that considers also by doing that Steppenwolf over Iron Butterfly, who never had a hit. but well known for In A Gadda Da Vidda.. or In the Garden of Eden.
"Jimmy's "style" of debate is to obcure the reply he gets,or dircet question he was asked by posting the same few books/mag. articles or total avoidance by rambling about unrelated band trivia in hope that this will inspire that he is a credible source/expert."

Me: The same can be said for quite a few of you too. unrelated Coven entries.

Posted by ~ St. JImmy~ on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 21:52pm


Dawson is just trying to get noticed, it's an insult to all the actual EXCEPTIONAL musicians,songwriters that didn't rely on a gimmick that a band as this would get into TRRHOF.

Me: One more thing,
Madonna induction 08.
Songs - Burning Up and Ray of light were preformed by Iggy and the Stooges.
Kabbalah = Mysticism = Occult = Gimmick
As projected on her tour screens and backdrop videos, and in her 05 Documentary
" I'm Going to Tell You A Secret."
She's projecting this image and selling it, there for its a GIMMICK.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 23:36pm


Jimmy

Get over it. Coven won't get in the HOF. Your so called facts are all twisted to your view which is fine. I've heard them and I do actually like them. Wouldn't bet any money them getting into the HOF though.

Posted by dano on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 23:58pm


I came to this site to vote for Coven because I like them.I love Jinx's voice.Black Swan is my favorite song.I got curious and went to other bands here to see comments and notice there are only a few comments for much more famous bands, but they were all bad too.What is this, a music bashing site? Not my cup of tea.

Posted by lilith on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 16:19pm
--------------------------------------------------
Actually this is far from a music bashing site. You have merely run into a group of people who feel psaaionately about the subject at hand. I notice in most cases the site is used for just about anything related to rock. I myself have little vested interest in the Rock Hall, but will toss in a few of my halting words if the situation obliges. I came over here from Rolling Stones website, and I can see the difference between blather and brains. Of course everyone has to let a little idiocy run through their existence, so to paraphrase LAX 25 & Space Trucker's parting comments:

"We are morons tried & true, and well do are yell for you" (N'yuk, N'yuk, N'yuk, N'yuk, N'yuk)

Of course, their sign outs always were a bit more rockin' than mine

Cheesecrop

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 05:45am


As you can see, my dear, my passions are so great that I become positively illiterate in my rendering of them, as judged by my misspelling of "passionate" in the previous post.

I'm swept away on a shimmering tide of guitars. Woo, Woo, Woo, Woo!!!

Cheesecrop

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 05:48am


Robin: Holy Wombat Juice Batman, this evil has still not stopped. What will we do?

Batman: No fear boy wonder, I will use my anti-silly spray here in my utility belt. Once I spray it, the world will stop paying attention to this board and move onto other bands for more enlightening conversation. Robin, watch out for SJ! He will want to keep the evil alive.

Robin: KAPOW - BAM - SPLAT

Batman: Good work boy wonder. They are gone for now, but they may come back again one day. Now let's get back to the Batcave and sacrifice a rubber chicken while Alfred dresses in drag.

Robin: Holy Jinx Batman, the bat signal. I think Jann Wenner has escaped the asylum again.




Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 05:58am


Now you did it, blah-blah-blah. You got me hooked onto the Batman theme. In honor of this, I feel the need to torture the rest of the site with a group sing-a-long. Dedicated to you:

BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah
Blah, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, Blah

Batman

BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah
BLAH, blah ba ba ba ba ba

BATMAN

BIFF!
BANG!
POW!

BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BLAH, blah, BA DA DAA DAA DAA DAA DAA DAAA!

BATMAAANNN!!!

Group sing-a-long is now over. You're all gonna hate me for this, cause that song sticks with you!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 06:15am


CC - Did you see the list of nominees? I guess that is why the Bat Signal went out?

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 08:08am


Die Pop-Rock-Gruppe Coven Ich habe nicht das Gefühl, verdienten es, von der alle anderen dann Aufmerksamkeit ihrer begrenzten Beitrag zur Musik.
Die Musik ist Scheiße und die Idioten St. Jimmy wo liebt sie so viel scheint boreline zurückgeblieben.

Posted by Jurgen,Munich on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 08:55am


My German is not that good, but I think our friend Jurgen is not a friend of Coven. Who knew! And Jimmy, I don't think he is too fond of you as well.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:05am


"Thou dearest St.Jimmy----
Thou are concerned that thou will have thy heart broken once thy "big" Coven comeback taketh place and your hearts true loveth Jinx movie career taketh offeth.
Thy St.Jimmy will be left behind, in a spew of black demon spawn...
Only left with thy 8X 10 eth glossy (available at the coven gift shop by theth wayeth for only $9.99)to mourn over.
All thy effort and rallying doneth in vain."

"What a Moron.. cant even get the "Old English" Correct. wtf do you know about rock and roll and its history? seems you cant even get " goth " correct per say."

St. Jimmy it wasn't meant to be accurate,it was meant to MOCK you and it succeeded.
LOL
Maybe spend some time learning what words,terms mean instead of obsessing over a 60 yr.old has been.
Oh, for such a genius expert it's "per se",who's the moron...

Posted by Dale on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:12am


"SO that considers also by doing that Steppenwolf over Iron Butterfly, who never had a hit. but well known for In A Gadda Da Vidda.. or In the Garden of Eden."

Hey genius/expert Iron Butterfly sold so many copies of that album a whole other catagory had to be created for sales it was Platnium!
lol,idiot.
Never had a hit...
Just keep talking your logging up many moron points and it's VERY amusing for all.

Blah Blah Blah-
I have enjoyed your posts very much,you always make me lol at that this dimwit St Jimmy.

Posted by Randy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:17am


[gitarzan:] Now you know as well as I do (if you live in the states) that Christian leaders don't have the power to ban anything!!

[MY RESPONSE:] Of course, Christian leaders cannot ban anything directly. However, these zealots can put the pressure on local government when they feel like it. The church crowd is a viable voting block.

[Kim:] hey she's elible [sic] for social security soon.

[MY COMMENT:] This is the kind of gratuitous comment that brings nothing of substance to the dialog. Attack a person's age when you can't say anything else.

[kim:] my boyfriend and i both like metal,black metal.

[MY RESPONSE:] Really?

[kim:] the one dude on the cover reminded when i was in highschool cause he looks like my guidence [sic] counselor.

[MY RESPONSE:] Why is it always about high school with you assholes? Did you pay attention to learning spelling while you were in high school? No . . . you were too busy blowing your guidance counselor.

Posted by Matt Flash on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:51am


Do you guys realize Nirvana in 2 years has less comments than this Coven site in less than a month? What is it about this band that gives you few guys so much energy to rake this really cool woman over the coals.It seems to be directed at the female.Again, to get into the Hall you have to be in your fifties.Are you guys gay?

Posted by lilith on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:58am


Oh and FYI-On the comments about her being broke-In the Coven radio interview on their 40 year reunion in August they mention a cruise on Jinx's 42 foot yacht docked outside her house.She doesn't sound too broke to me.

Posted by lilith on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 10:06am


Lilith, this has nothing to do with Jinx being a female. I don't know a single guy that doesn't dig chick rockers. There has been much to say on this site about the omission of the Runaways, Pat Benetar, Heart and many other women dominated bands.

The overblown commentary on this page has more to do with a couple of people's obsession with a band that meets zero criteria for the Hall of Fame. So get off your bandwagon and join us in other conversation. We would love to hear what you have to say about other bands? What is your opinion of the 9 nominees?

I think everyone here is pretty tired of Coven dominating the conversation. They just don't deserve that kind of time.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 10:21am


I think everyone here is pretty tired of Coven dominating the conversation.

Posted by blah-blah-blah

Then WHY are you here?This is the COVEN site.Go to the other artists if you have more interest in them.No one is stopping you.

Posted by lilith on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 11:42am


This is not a Coven site; this is a site about the Future of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. A place that Coven will not be part of except as a footnote.

I asked you nicely to join the conversation about today's announcement of the 9 nominees, but you don't seem to want to be part of that. I would love to hear your opinion on the Jeff Beck nomination. Any of the 9 bands that you have a like or dislike for? Should Wanda Jackson go in as a current artist or should she have been inducted as an early influence? And she is a woman, so that should show you that women are being nominated. Really, I would love to hear your opinion.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:13pm


Well jimmy my boyfriend and i have more than done our share by supporting the metal-black metal genre.
We have ammassed a large collection of things we bought by bands we LIKE!
cds t-shirts dvds and so forth.
If someone turns me onto an obcsure band and the cd is selling for almost 30 bucks we're NOT going to waste our hard earned coin by buying it without sampling the entire cd if possible.
Such was the case with Stinx Dawson and the Shitcraft Reams Anus and Destroys Braincells album.
Considering pretty much everywhere i read online their music is laughed at and regarded as dated trivia that's 30 bucks saved!
Goth Queen???
Much more like Mothball Queen cause that's where this chicks been stored.
Her singing sounds like Ethel Merman on Shitcraft

Posted by Kim on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:36pm


"Oh and FYI-On the comments about her being broke-In the Coven radio interview on their 40 year reunion in August they mention a cruise on Jinx's 42 foot yacht docked outside her house.She doesn't sound too broke to me."

Well right in this recent interview they make the comment.


Me-the one dude on the cover reminded when i was in highschool cause he looks like my guidence counselor."

You don't use the "sic" term correctly genius.
Besides i had a guidence counselor that was known as a big dork,and the one dude resemled him on the album cover-SO.

Matt Flatulence you need to learn proper meaning of terms before mimicking what others have correctly already used.

Posted by Randy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:57pm


Wow! this thread is highly entertaining.
I can almost picture the few supporters (although like the one poster mentioned it sounds like it's 1-2 people actually just using differnt screen names)quaking in their goblin booties fuming that this obscure band is getting flamed so badly.

Oh to the one guy Matt Flateunce (classic) at 57 there's nothing "sic" about receiving/ approaching social secuirity eligibilty,she's age proper for it.

"Oh and FYI-On the comments about her being broke-they mention a cruise on Jinx's 42 foot yacht docked outside her house.She doesn't sound too broke to me."

Jimmy,oh sorry "Lilith" yet she lost her home in a "sheriff's sale",that constitutes(feel free to look up the word) BROKE in most circles.
Sad,but true.

Keep up the good work your really "doing the work".
LMAO rawk out!

Posted by James T. on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 13:17pm


"She's 3 yrs shy of 60,just had a massive heart attack,almost freakin' died.
Had to wear/wears a pace maker.
She's "real" healthy."

Wonder what the german guy said?
And she's making a comeback?!?
To what?!?!?!?!?
Trading off the horn sign...
Boasting about that embarrestment of an album!?!
Give it up, marry wealthy it's about all she can hope for at this point in her life.
Good one.

Posted by T-Bone C. on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 13:26pm


Jimmy,oh sorry "Lilith" yet she lost her home in a "sheriff's sale",that constitutes(feel free to look up the word) BROKE in most circles.
Sad,but true.

You don't do research. In a recent magazine article,Her father died recently, who she took care of for 5 years and HIS house was sold.

Sorry, but I do not even know who Jimmy is?

Posted by lilith on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 13:56pm


As the song goes:

It goes on and on and on and on and on!

I am very upset that Coven was not nominated. Really I am, I swear to you, I'm not joking, really they should have been, I mean it.

Okay, you got me, I wasn't serious.

CC and Blah - if I start humming the theme to Batman, I swear I am going to come looking for the both of you.

Too f'n funny!

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 17:09pm


Jimmy,oh sorry "Lilith"

Me: Have you changed your name so many times that you think everyone changes their names... kinda like paranoia... must feel like everyone is out to get you.

This is not a Coven site; this is a site about the Future of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. A place that Coven will not be part of except as a footnote.

Me: If i do believe correctly, Coven is listed at the top of this thread, therefore its the Coven Thread.

Keep up the good work your really "doing the work".
LMAO rawk out!

Me: yea I do " Rock, " and more than you it seems,

Lilith, this has nothing to do with Jinx being a female

Me: It has everything to do with her being a female, again, did you see Janis, Etta, Grace, Diana, Nico, ect ect have the balls to front this music, I dont think so.

Hey genius/expert Iron Butterfly sold so many copies of that album a whole other catagory had to be created for sales it was Platnium!
lol,idiot.
Never had a hit...
Just keep talking your logging up many moron points and it's VERY amusing for all.

Me: Again, other than In A Gadda Da Vidda, thats the only song they are known for, so that is what you guys call a " footnote "

St. Jimmy it wasn't meant to be accurate,it was meant to MOCK you and it succeeded.

Me: Well that makes you look even more of a moron.
Just like none of the Accurate information you can provide. its all inaccurate.

yet she lost her home in a "sheriff's sale",that constitutes(feel free to look up the word) BROKE in most circles.

Me: See you did not read that interview correctly.
Sad,but true.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 18:47pm


I nominate St. Jimmy as the one most people should ignore.

Me: It has everything to do with her being a female, again, did you see Janis, Etta, Grace, Diana, Nico, ect ect have the balls to front this music, I dont think so.

This is clearly the dumbest statement I have read yet.

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 18:59pm


This is clearly the dumbest statement I have read yet.

Me: Apparently you have not read your statements.

Interview speaking since you said that you follow those, I'm just throwing this out there cause you nor I will ever know the truth.. you cant come back with anything either that Tony Iommi says, because he REFUSES to talk about it. You get one side of the story that which Don Arden said to Tony to use this guy.. Again this is a example of how " certain things are left out, and unsaid. "

Black Sabbath ~
The mysterious period involving singer Jeff Fenholt... Which Tony Iommi REFUSES to talk about.

The Book " Never Say Die " By: Garry Sharpe-Young
States "that a substantial number of recordings were made during Fenholt's time with the group."

Fenholt says several of his melodies were used in songs that appeared on Seventh Star (and subsequently did not receive credit for them). None of his lyrics were used, as confirmed by comparing the Fenholt demos with the album. Rumors suggesting he only left the project because of supposed personal conflicts with the lyrical material being written and his religious faith are denied by Fenholt and Geoff Nicholls, who wrote the lyrics. Fenholt claims it was in fact a physical argument with Don Arden that caused his departure.

"Quote" from Eric Singer,
"Jeff Fenholt sang on some demos for Tony Iommi in (19)85 in (Los Angeles). He was never in Black Sabbath. Tony was looking for a singer for what was supposed to be his "solo" album. Jeff came down and sang some ideas in the studio for what were simply demos. That project became the "Seventh Star" album with Glenn Hughes on vocals, and my first album. That's pretty much all there is to the story. Jeff had a great voice but it just didn't work out."

Why does Tony Refuse to talk about it?, We will never know.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 19:06pm


~St. Jimmy~...for someone who is supposed to be "very knowledgeable" and "grew up around the industry", you seem to have a very one-track mind. I have asked for artists to be posted, not so much because of HOF consideration, but because I thought they'd make interesting conversation. I've never tried to convince anyone that they were anything they weren't.

I guess my question is; do you ever talk about anything else that doesn't have this "mystic connection" to Coven? Like I said before, six points of seperation says we can make a connection between them and Kevin Bacon...lovely.

C'mon man...let it go!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 19:46pm


Point Being, They are not going to mention,
Should prove in what I posted, If there is no truth to it, Why dont Iommi say so himself?
So we have Fenholt's story, so there has to be truth to it, being Iommi wont say different.
The Only person that has been quoted on saying anything about it is Eric Singer.



Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 19:54pm


I am sorry - but who cares about the 1985 version of Black Sabbath?

The mysterious period involving singer Jeff Fenholt... Which Tony Iommi REFUSES to talk about. (Jimmy)

What has this got to do with all the tea in China? What has this got to do with Coven?

Why is it so important to you that Jinx sang about a subject that other women didn't? It doesn't make Jinx special.


Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 20:07pm


Again you guys totally missed my point,
Musicians, are and are not going to confirm anything, being that he refuses to talk about it, until the day he does, we have only Fenholt's story, so there has to be truth in it.
And you have no Proof to make me and those that have wondered about that period see that its wrong.

for someone who is supposed to be "very knowledgeable" and "grew up around the industry", you seem to have a very one-track mind.

Me: It's called " thinking outside the box."

Why is it so important to you that Jinx sang about a subject that other women didn't? It doesn't make Jinx special.

Me: She and Coven created a Genre, and inspired and influenced many, that followed. Accepting and believeing it or not. Pioneers = Start = Beginning.

And another thing if you want connections, Sabbath being under Mercurys sub label, had to push back comming to America, when Coven's album was pulled.

Source: Black Sabbath : The Last Supper.
And I do believe it was also mention from Tony and Geezers mouth in The Black Sabbath Story vol.1 - The Ozzy years.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 20:22pm


Well, your thinking is definitely unconventional...don't know that it's such a good thing. I don't know if I'd associate it with "thinking outside the box"...narrow-minded would be more like it.

I'm not here to insult, but the conversation is getting redundant, which also means it's getting boring. If you like Coven...cool! I just never heard much about them...from anyone...during that era!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 20:54pm


Well, your thinking is definitely unconventional...don't know that it's such a good thing. I don't know if I'd associate it with "thinking outside the box"...narrow-minded would be more like it.

I'm not here to insult, but the conversation is getting redundant, which also means it's getting boring. If you like Coven...cool! I just never heard much about them...from anyone...during that era!

Me: And you wont either, because of the " borrowing " from unoriginal artist's, hence no Interviews or books that mention them.

In the Fenholt post, it was simply there to show you to read between the lines. And you didn't get it, so therefore you can't debate it out. Again, being that Iommi will not confirm that it is true or not, then you are only left to think and believe that its true. Someone who steals " unlike kim who pretty much proved that she stole the witchcraft album.. BTW 18.99 is hardly anywhere newar 30 bucks, on the Coven myspace page there are uploaded tracks on the snocap player just for sampling before you purchase.)Or Borrows are not going to admit to it, it takes from thier credit and thier front of originality.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 21:07pm


It's getting redundant hearing you say it's getting redundant, that's how redundant it is.

Posted by joker on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 21:08pm


Hell I caught on to it, it wasn't that hard.
Melodies where used, but the lyrics were different on the demos.
and he did not get credit for them.
credit being the word.
Even Eric Singer says he sang on demo's. So the melodies existed, even though the lyrics were different.

Posted by M.Vagarus on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 21:37pm


"Me: SO that considers also by doing that Steppenwolf over Iron Butterfly, who never had a hit. but well known for In A Gadda Da Vidda.. or In the Garden of Eden."-our pal jimmy

st. jimmy...just to show you how wrapped up in "urban legend" you are, when asked in an interview what "In A Gadda Da Vida" meant, Doug Engle, the keyboardist and lead singer said "It doesn't mean anything"

You have the same problem a lot of people have on this site...you believe everything you read. I'll bet you never bothered to check that video out, did you??

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 22:27pm


A commonly repeated story says that the song's title was originally "In the Garden of Eden" but in the course of rehearsing and recording, singer Doug Ingle was intoxicated and accidentally slurred the words, creating the mondegreen that stuck as the title. However, the liner notes on 'the best of' CD compilation state that drummer Ron Bushy was listening to the track through headphones, and couldn't hear correctly; he simply distorted what Doug Ingle answered when Ron asked him for the title of the song (which was originally In-The-Garden-Of-Eden )

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 22:30pm


I'll bet you never bothered to check that video out, did you??

Me: No the only video I saw posted was the promo for Strawberry Fields Forever.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 22:55pm


What is interesting is how Jimmy attempts to diminish the influence of bands who clearly had an impact (documented) in one form or another in order to strengthen his case for a band that had minimal impact.

Clealry Batman had no effect on this evildoer. Perhaps it is time to call in Tony Stark aka IRONMAN.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 05:49am


Randy, Dale, Kim, My 2 Cents, Mr Paranoia,

And you have yet to prove to me that there was NO influence from Coven to other bands.

I post a Example of how things are left unsaid and not talked about.. But it flew over your Duh Brain..
You cant come back with a argument on that post about Tony Iommi can you? so you go under many names to look funny and witty.. how clever..

Point being, again I will say this, until the day Iommi says that Jeff was never a member of Sabbath, Jeff's story holds creditability.. where as Tony wont say different.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 06:15am


Jimmy, I was civil when we debate, YOU'RE now being paranoid towards me,unfairly.
I'm only me,maybe others are changing names not I.

" Again, other than In A Gadda Da Vidda, thats the only song they are known for, so that is what you guys call a footnote"

Ahmet Ertugun had to create a whole new catagory to accret just how MANY albums In A gadda sold=the catagory Platnium
A much more impressive "footnote" then Coven's contributions of a hand sign etc.


"Jimmy: See you did not read that interview correctly."

In the interview it makes Dawson relays how she had to sell off all her red carpet wardrobe on E-bay,lost her home in a sheriff's sale (for what reason,it doesn't matter WHY,it happened).
And the interviwer makes the comment despite her waering a gold necklace with her name she is not a wealthy woman.
This was before her health issues too which I'm sure racked up some bills.

"Her having a major heart attack and almost dying didn't even make one MAJOR music publication."

Jimmy:"it was Mentioned by the Production Company of the Film she is to be in"

Jimmy - Notice the phrasing "major "MUSIC" publication.
Not the obscure indie film company she's working with.

Jimmy:"you go under many names to look funny and witty.. how clever.. "

And you go by many names after being mocked for having way too much time on your hands to "obsess" over this band.
That's where the suspicion came in about you,as soon as that was said by another poster (NOT me) all thes "other" supporters materialised ,yet relayed the same points,worded almost exactly the same as you.
Whatever...

Posted by Kim on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 08:42am


In the interview it makes Dawson relays how she had to sell off all her red carpet wardrobe on E-bay,lost her home in a sheriff's sale (for what reason,it doesn't matter WHY,it happened).
And the interviwer makes the comment despite her waering a gold necklace with her name she is not a wealthy woman.
This was before her health issues too which I'm sure racked up some bills.

ME: No where in any interview has it ever relayed that she sold her " red carpet wardrobe "
Again, it was her FATHERS home, that was lost. Not HERS.
Ok again there was NO MENTION of a gold necklace.
SO again false information. and Improper reading and research.

Jimmy, I was civil when we debate, YOU'RE now being paranoid towards me,unfairly.
I'm only me,maybe others are changing names not I

ME: And I know this How?.

"Her having a major heart attack and almost dying didn't even make one MAJOR music publication."

ME: Film Publication / Production.. is crediable.

Ahmet Ertugun had to create a whole new catagory to accret just how MANY albums In A gadda sold=the catagory Platnium
A much more impressive "footnote" then Coven's contributions of a hand sign etc.

ME: Again, outside of In-a-gadda-da-vidda, that was the only song they were known for,

That's where the suspicion came in about you,as soon as that was said by another poster (NOT me) all thes "other" supporters materialised ,yet relayed the same points,worded almost exactly the same as you.
Whatever...

Me: I have nothing to hide, no reason to come in under different names, I dont even know who Lilith and Vagarus are, I know of Matt Flash, but dont know him, again previous posts before mine, showed Coven supports.

And Kim, I have never had a convo with you on here, other than when you said that you stole the witchcraft album, I have no clue to what you are talking about being Civil to me when we debated.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 09:00am


Jimmy:"unlike kim who pretty much proved that she stole the witchcraft album.. BTW 18.99 is hardly anywhere newar 30 bucks, on the Coven myspace page".

First up Jimmy, I never went, will go to the Coven myspace cause (i'm not intersted in hearing their music,them further.)
Our friend bought it for like $25.99 he said.
A friend of Randys (yes Jimmy,Randy is my bf and got me involved with this convo because he seems to find it very humorous)who like us likes metal uploaded the Shitcraft Destroys Minds and Reams Asses and Destroys Braincells (Randy gets credit for that name,classic lol)and as usual if we enjoyed it we would purchase it because we like supporting bands we LIKE and want the complete cover art.
If we don't like something we DELETE it,which was the case with the Stinx Dawson cd.

Jimmy:
"You cant come back with a argument on that post about Tony Iommi can you? so you go under many names to look funny and witty.. how clever.. "

Jimmy,Randy I/we were NEVER participating in that particular subject,seriously.
That was another poster.

Jimmy just cause you are getting accused of changing screen names doesn't mean other are doing it and i think your accussing others of it just to eclipse you.

Out of all the GREAT bands out there this group is very lame dated sounding musically.

Her age was critisised because an older artist that actually had a successful longterm career can take time off for years then "comeback".
Due to the fact there IS SOMETHING to comeback too!
And that can even be hard.
A musical legacy people actually care about,heard of.
Like Chuck Berry can take 20 yrs off,he is ESTABLISHED,respected,KNOWN.


An unknown pushing 60...
No one really cares about this band on a LARGE/minor scale.
So to be making claims of a comeback it just sounds wishful,bizarre really as they were a one hit wonder many yrs ago.
And like you said that song isn't a representation of who they are.

Bottomline- You need something to COMEBACK to @ 57 other than a hand gesture to be taken seriously.

The hand sign has since become corny,maudlin,played out since Miley Cyrus fans,George Bush and every other fan has been doing it.














Posted by Kim on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 09:16am


I do believe that this is the article you are talking about, NONE of that is mentioned.

"In the interview it makes Dawson relays how she had to sell off all her red carpet wardrobe on E-bay,lost her home in a sheriff's sale (for what reason,it doesn't matter WHY,it happened).
And the interviwer makes the comment despite her waering a gold necklace with her name she is not a wealthy woman."

http://www.nuvo.net/articles/web_exclusive__from_broad_ripple_to_one_tin_soldier/

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 09:18am


Jimmy:
"Thank you very much I have had contact with Charlie Manson.. But thats not really a concern of yours.. and if you havent heard the phrase " Uncle Charlie " then look it up in the media."

Now I REALLY understand why no one likes/respects Jimmy! lmao (yet again @ Jimmy)

"St. Jimmy it wasn't meant to be accurate,it was meant to MOCK you and it succeeded."

Jimmy: "Well that makes you look even more of a moron."

No Jimmy YOU are the current record holder as moron extraordinaire,know it all,blabber 'n' smoke creep.

Posted by Randy on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 09:39am


Bottomline- You need something to COMEBACK to @ 57 other than a hand gesture to be taken seriously.

Me: She has, and then some.

And I am probably guessing that you read the article, if you did congrats, you read it and knew I was BS'n ya and waiting on you to call me out * insert Smile * execpt It didnt mention E-bay, but trust me, from what I hear, she is far from " broke "

First up Jimmy, I never went, will go to the Coven myspace cause (i'm not intersted in hearing their music,them further.)
Our friend bought it for like $25.99 he said.

Me: In All honesty even downloading those for sample purposes is stealing, and its not right. Every piece of music even for sample purposes, that is downloaded takes away from the artist, its like walking up to someone and nic'n the cash from their pocket / wallet, and I know that you wouldnt like that to happen to you. You said you deleted it, fine, but half the time people use those blog sites even more than the illegal ones to rip off artists, and its not cool. I had one asking me if I wanted a certain bands album and gave me the link BEFORE the album was released, I know a couple of the members personally, dont think I didnt go to them ( those that I am close with from that band ) and tell them.. Stopped that before it got out to those that steal music. Its wrong, and it infuriates me when I see someone even admitting to it at the slightest. Thats said and over with.

Yes, Medical Bills add up, Been there with my father who passed from the same circumstances.. lost his home also, Dying costs more than comming into this world. But it hardly considers you broke.
Its called Investments, and from what I hear, Jinx is doing pretty well for herself! in many ways that one. But HER Home was not Lost / Auctioned.

You are a fan of black metal correct?
Well you are not interested in where it came from?
The Roots. To be a fan of it, and someone talks about, its interesting to say that, Hey did you know it actually started in 1969? trust me it makes a interesting conversation piece.

Posted by ~ St.Jimmy~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 09:57am


"Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll."

You may or may not like their music, they may not have sold as many records as some, but if you read the above criteria, they do fit.There are thousands of bands now doing almost exactly what Coven did way back in 1968.Not disco, not pop, not rap(which is all in the Hall) but exactly the same heavy ROCK themes, with a few additions here and there.The inverted crosses, the stage trappings, the look.If you like metal, gothic and heavy dark rock, you cannot avoid the fact they were FIRST in this genre.And isn't that what the Hall is about? This thread has more comments than bigger bands in just a month.What is the problem here?You do not have to like a musician to admit to their contributions.Frankly, the only reason I am even still looking at this thread is because I wrote to Coven's myspace asking alot of questions and Jinx wrote back a very nice long letter to me and no other music space musician has done that with me.Despite what you say here, she is a very classy lady.

Posted by lilith on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 10:00am




Posted by Randy on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 09:39am


ME: Hardy har har, you so funny I nearly pee'd myself!
Makes you even more amusing.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 10:13am


"You are a fan of black metal correct?
Well you are not interested in where it came from?"

Yes,That's how i/we were exposed to this band.
Look,I'm not arguing they didn't have the satanic the trappings first.
I just do'net enjoy the MUSIC!
Her voice sounds like shes singing show tunes ala Ethel Merman.
Nothing wrong if you dig that,I don't.
I was expecting the music to live up to the imagery and it doesn't imo.

As for the Manson admiration ,jimmy come on the guy is a sick son of a bitch,murderer.
How would you feel if you/yours were victim his acts...
PEACE
It's my opinion and i'm entitled as are you yours.

Posted by Kim on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 13:00pm


Jimmy "Her Film Publication / Production.. is crediable.".

It does not address the orig. comment made "No major MUSIC publication acknowledged she had a major heart attack and nearly died.

"I'm only me,maybe others are changing names not I".

Jimmy: And I know this How?.

Well as much as we can beilive you i suppose,honor system.

I read here the comments about her financial probs.
She herself states she lost her home in a sheriff's sale.Whether it be 2nd home whatever,she didn't have the coin to save her families home.

Cut/pasted exactly from her interview:
http://www.nuvo.net/articles/
web_exclusive__from_broad_ripple_to_one_tin_soldier/

"The necklace she wears with her name in gold belies the fact that the “Goth Queen,” as she is called on the Internet, is far from wealthy. In fact, she lost hundreds of thousands of dollars while caring for her sick father, the late Robert L. Dawson Sr."

Dawson:

"I also lost land and property at Dawson Lake. I had to sell most of my life’s belongings brought from Los Angeles by the largest Mayflower moving truck they had; I sold my three automobiles, and I had to even sell a lot of my red carpet wardrobe on eBay".

Since then she had a major heart attack,bills.
Perhaps she's not totally broke but as one might would say "connect the dots".
Sounds like the interviewer is being courteous,yet alluding to her finances not being the greatest.
It's sad really...
Now she really needs to SELL her importance,influence.

I to lost my mother to cancer and had to deal with all the stress etc.
I have empathy for her.

I still don't like her music though!

PEACE

Posted by Kim on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 13:30pm


Jimmy:"Hardy har har, you so funny I nearly pee'd myself!"

Well mustn't let that happen!
Aren't you wearing your diapers momsy bought for you...

~St.Barnabas~





Posted by St.Barnabas on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 14:27pm


Kim, sorry to hear about your loss.It happened to me too, so maybe I was comforted in some way when Jinx responded to my emails because she lost her Dad to 7 years with cancer, her Mom from Alzheimers and her boyfriend to a stroke all within a few years.She had many comforting things to say to me.

I was also most impressed with her knowledge of magic.I have read a lot on the subject and had many questions which she took much time to answer.

Posted by lilith on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 14:35pm


"Frankly, the only reason I am even still looking at this thread is because I wrote to Coven's myspace asking alot of questions and Jinx wrote back a very nice long letter to me and no other music space musician has done that with me"

Well like most people who are on Myspace she most likely has nothing better to do.
lol and flattered anyone cares about her music.
Bands that are SUCCESSFUL don't always have time to answer questions via Myspace.
They're touring for months,traveling.

I can only IMAGINE the freaks that come out of the woodwork PMing her.


~St.Barnabas~

Posted by ~St.Barnabas~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 14:39pm


No one listened to Coven, you can't tell the influence from Black Sabbath To Stevie Nicks, Edge of Seventeen sounds nothing like Blood on the Snow.. and if you were stealing from someone or taking something that someone was doing and making it your own.... you would want it to be known that there was someone else out there doing it. I think yes. Do proper research... Look at Covens first album cover and compare it with Black Sabbath's Inlay, Looks nothing much alike, except Coven did it with more less Class..

~St.Barnabas~

Posted by ~St.Barnabas~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 14:42pm


You know you are one sick, sorry piece of shit, you have nothing better to do with your time than to come up with bullshit to make you look funny,
Go back to stealing you music, I hope that one days someone nic's the money from you PURSE as you probably have many.

As for the Manson admiration ,jimmy come on the guy is a sick son of a bitch,murderer.
How would you feel if you/yours were victim his acts...
PEACE
It's my opinion and i'm entitled as are you yours.

ME: As I said dumb ass's I never admired him, when you are young, you look for answers, get your story straight.

Oh and btw are you MOCKING a CATHOLIC St.? How what should I say in the christian religion... Blasphemous...and a Mockery.. Or are you trying to be Unoriginal and copy Barnabas Collins, either way asshole you look ridiculous at least my name came from someone that has " originality " unlike you.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 16:49pm


Now you are fighting about names used on a website. Come on, please.

As I said dumb ass's I never admired him, when you are young, you look for answers, get your story straight.

Are you saying that when you were young and confused, you looked for answers in Manson or something like that?

Come on man, leave this alone now. It is all a drag!


Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 16:59pm


As I said dumb ass's I never admired him, when you are young, you look for answers, get your story straight.

Are you saying that when you were young and confused, you looked for answers in Manson or something like that?


As I had said, re read the posts, I never said I ADMIRED him, There were simply things that I did not understand, and when you dont understand you go to the sources, He couldnt answer my question because he does not talk about it. that was the past. so there for I let it go, unlike most of you.

I really dont care about the name, its just rather wrong to use a Catholic Saint in such away, that some people might take offence to it. Its a Mockery.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 17:11pm


Well like most people who are on Myspace she most likely has nothing better to do.
lol and flattered anyone cares about her music.
Bands that are SUCCESSFUL don't always have time to answer questions via Myspace.
They're touring for months,traveling.

I can only IMAGINE the freaks that come out of the woodwork PMing her.


Me: Shows how much you really know, Half those guys dont even take the time to even reply back when it even comes down to merchandise. They dont take the time.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 17:25pm


No one listened to Coven, you can't tell the influence from Black Sabbath To Stevie Nicks, Edge of Seventeen sounds nothing like Blood on the Snow.. and if you were stealing from someone or taking something that someone was doing and making it your own.... you would want it to be known that there was someone else out there doing it. I think yes. Do proper research... Look at Covens first album cover and compare it with Black Sabbath's Inlay, Looks nothing much alike, except Coven did it with more less Class..

~St.Barnabas~
Posted by ~St.Barnabas~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 14:42pm


ME: And one more thing,
THIEF that is plagiarism.
Be more Original man, Or do you always have the mental capacity of 3 yr old?
Just go back to Stealing your music and words, and living in the shit world you created, when you get through cleaning the stains off your mattress meaning you cause it seems the best part of you ran down the crack of someones ass.
Come back to me when you have something more original. and back your shit up. and not hide under many names THIEF.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 17:35pm


Jimmy:
" As I said dumb ass's I never admired him, when you are young, you look for answers, get your story straight."

Jimmy - I've known all sorts of types in my life...
NEVER did anyone seek out Charles Manson via writing him "looking for answers".

Oh, btw speaking of plagirism you copied verbatum the EXACT thing Dawson said pertaining the satanic stuff in her interview!!!
when you said this:
Jimmy: "when you are young, you look for answers"

Does that NOT qualify as plagirism?
lol

YOU hold the record for being sick,more than someone changing their screen names,bad mouthing some band etc.
You take this WAY too seriously.

Also how come you haven't given your genius "insight" about the EXACT quotes from Dawson's interview+the link provided by that chick that contradicts your info.

Cut/pasted exactly from her interview:
http://www.nuvo.net/articles/
web_exclusive__from_broad_ripple_to_one_tin_soldier/

"The necklace she wears with her name in gold belies the fact that the “Goth Queen,” as she is called on the Internet, is far from wealthy. In fact, she lost hundreds of thousands of dollars while caring for her sick father, the late Robert L. Dawson Sr."

Jinx Dawson:
"I also lost land and property at Dawson Lake. I had to sell most of my life’s belongings brought from Los Angeles by the largest Mayflower moving truck they had; I sold my three automobiles, and I had to even sell a lot of my red carpet wardrobe on eBay".

Jimmy:
"Oh and btw are you MOCKING a CATHOLIC St."

Kinda like wearing an upside crucifix eh Jimbo.

~ St.Barnabas Hospital ~

Posted by ~ St.Barnabas Hospital ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 18:27pm


HAHAHAHA Funny..
words are just words, Talk is cheap.. I am already over your amusement..

At least Wearing inverted crosses represent a belief where as you are just mocking Mr. St. Barnabas Hospital..Sure change your name now.

Like I said, go back to stealing other peoples music, stealing their words, and living in the shit hole for a world you created.

Jokes on you, LOL.. from my understanding, she is FAR from broke,you do not listen to or read whats presented properly. Sad but True, that you only have the mind capacity of a child, she never lost her house. and is far from broke I hear.. and so what, we all sell items of Ebay.. but I guess you wouldnt know that, being that you steal.

"Oh, btw speaking of plagirism you copied verbatum the EXACT thing Dawson said pertaining the satanic stuff in her interview!!!
when you said this:
Jimmy: "when you are young, you look for answers"

Well Now you look, sorry but that isnt plagirism,
nor does it consider to that effect unlike anything you did with my words. You Took my words and added yours to it to make it look like a clever post that you came up with.. thats plagirism when you typed your little " ~ St. Barnabas ~ " at the end of it, which proves my point futher that you are a thief.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:02pm


Web Adm. - the discussion here no longer discusses the merits of a band. It has moved to the bizarre and pathetic. I admit that I took part of it in the beginning and I apologize for that, but it has grown quite tiresome to most of us now. Can you please interject some common sense here.

St. Barnabus - there is no point in trying to prove anything to Jimmy. He is standing firm on his beliefs, no matter how strange we all may think they are.

Jimmy - You have said everything that can be said on this subject. There is nothing left and none of us are buying the Coven induction, How about moving to the recently named nominees.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:15pm


St. Barnabus - there is no point in trying to prove anything to Jimmy. He is standing firm on his beliefs, no matter how strange we all may think they are.

My Beliefs are my beliefs, I dont need to be influenced by others, I have looked at this from both sides, where are you only look at it from one.. Interviews, There are 2 sides to every story, Talk about me being narrow minded.
Oh and thanks for reporting that, let them see what kinda thief MR. Barnabas Hospital is.



How about moving to the recently named nominees.
There isnt anyone on the list i really see fit.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:31pm


Web Adm...please allow me to second Dameon's suggestion. it's tiresome and frustrating to log in to Latest Comments and see row upon row of mindless rambling. I too, have engaged in conversation (if that's what you want to call it), and it is simply redundant and counter productive.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:37pm


Well We can do that also...

To whom it may concern, It seems that you are recieving messages, from those that participated in the Coven thread, if you will read in those posts, it is those that are making the conversation distracting, Bringing up subjects and a bunch of non sense to the conversation, We are simply there to talk about a band that we enjoy, and we should feel that should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.. and those that come in and bash us.. Again the proof is in the conversations.. Again over and over this attacking on us and why we feel they should be inducted has come to this.
I thank you for your time,

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:42pm


"My Beliefs are my beliefs, I dont need to be influenced by others, I have looked at this from both sides, where are you only look at it from one.. Interviews, There are 2 sides to every story, Talk about me being narrow minded"-Jimmy

You only consider your point of view to be the absolute truth...nothing else anyone says matters. You act like you're the "top of the food chain" when it comes to music. By everything I've read from you, you're so sadly mistaken. If you don't see anyone on this year's list as being fit, then you are truly narrow-minded.

The reason you don't want to discuss anyone else is because you'd probably get lost in the shuffle because of your limited musical knowledge. You didn't prove a thing in all that rambling...my views on Coven are absolutely unchanged. As a matter of fact, you've helped me to solidify just how insignificant they were.

To be a true pioneer in a genre, it helps to "be in the game", so to speak...which they never were. As one person put it..."a footnote in modern music history.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:49pm


You only consider your point of view to be the absolute truth...nothing else anyone says matters. You act like you're the "top of the food chain" when it comes to music. By everything I've read from you, you're so sadly mistaken. If you don't see anyone on this year's list as being fit, then you are truly narrow-minded.

ME: I look at things around me, fill in the gaps, listen to what those that have to say, that I respect and hold at high honor, and would have no reason on this earth to lie about such..If you ask questions, you get answers, and in all of it, there is truth.. but you guys cant seem to pick up books, listen to the other side of the story, you go by what was pretty much sold to you over the years.

The reason you don't want to discuss anyone else is because you'd probably get lost in the shuffle because of your limited musical knowledge. You didn't prove a thing in all that rambling...my views on Coven are absolutely unchanged. As a matter of fact, you've helped me to solidify just how insignificant they were.


No need to make assumptions, I am not fans of any of those that are listed. Other than The Stooges, and that will never happen, being what the 7th time on the list? Your views are those that are of the narrow mind, you wont ask questions to those that it involved at that time.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:56pm


my views on Coven are absolutely unchanged. As a matter of fact, you've helped me to solidify just how insignificant they were.

To be a true pioneer in a genre, it helps to "be in the game", so to speak...which they never were. As one person put it..."a footnote in modern music history.

ME: Then why do you continually come here and bring up topics that have nothing to do with Coven like .."try the Ohio Express",
"There's a reason why the definitive book about the Mansons is called "Helter Skelter"...Maybe you should research that."
"Exactly...the Manson situation had nothing to do with Coven, but A LOT to do with the Beatles. Furthermore, I'll take what the guy who had to go into a courtroom and face Manson down day after day says over about anyone...he, I don't know, HAD to have his facts straight!" and so on and on and on

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 20:05pm


Jimmy, as parting shot, let me tell you about me in a nutshell...I grew up having a mother who was a devoted rock(particularly 50's Elvis) and I was a teen and started playing guitar during that era when the music landscape changed constantly. On the contrary, I asked everybody everything I could about music. I read everything I could get my hands on, and I listened to everything. I felt like I absorbed it like a sponge because I loved it. When I was 14, I remember being able to pick Jerry Corbetta from Sugarloaf's brain at a music festival in Colorado just to know what it was like to have a hit record ( Green-Eyed Lady), and just being able to hang out with those guys...it was incredible!! Later on, I was able to find out what made guys from bands like Poco, Earth, Wind & Fire, Firefall, etc...tick from people who were either good friends with members or family. I remember having a revelation in hearing the album "Breezin'" by George Benson, thinking "I gotta learn to play trhat stuff!!!!", and having an extended "jazz" phase of my life. I know the feeling of sadness I had when musical legends I grew up listening to passed on, and the lessons learned from it, if any. I know what it's like to go out on a stage and play music and have people like it, even if it was covering someone else's stuff, and I remember when recording contracts were the "holy grail", not passed out like candy such as in recent history.

That is what I base my musical knowledge on, such as it is...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 20:16pm


I just perused the list of the new nominees.6 out of 9 are NOT Rock and Roll.Chic, Wanda Jackson, Bobby Womack, Run DMC, Little Anthony, War.The only Rock nominees left are Jeff Beck, Stooges and Metallica.

Has the "Rock and Roll" moniker been changed by big money corporate outfits to encompass all music? I understand too that they only give out one free pass to the winner for the induction.That is why I am for bands like Coven that truly did something to change the course of ROCK music for the love of what they were doing and WERE NOT a part of the BIG MUSIC MONEY MACHINE.

Posted by lilith on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 20:36pm


Lilith, personally I could not agree with you more. It's like this, "Hey lets put a album out and see how far we can go before we have to sell out." None on this list caught my eye, I didn't even know who The Stooges were, until I looked them up, then I saw Iggy Pop as lead singer, you haven't heard anything from them in a LONG time correct? Metallica, I can see them getting in, they sold out years ago, Not really into Jeff Beck but I am sure that he will get in also.
Whatever happed to the time when " Rock and Roll " did not dominate the money making industry? Ah well we will never have those days again.

And BTW, I was 15 years old when I first heard Coven, The White Witch of Rose Hall, the lead singers vocals blew me away, now that is rock and roll. I had to beg my parents to go buy me that record, I remember they said that it was sold out, but could only get the 45, needless to say, they got the album for my birthday LOL. that I sill have and framed in my music room. I should get another copy if I can even find it. Well my lunch break is almost over, just thought I would add my thoughts.

Posted by Carla on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 23:44pm


THE END!

Posted by Who Cares on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 03:37am


How about moving to the recently named nominees. (Dameon)
There isnt anyone on the list i really see fit. (Jimmy)

You don't see any of the nine nominees being worthy? Not the Stooges; Jeff Beck, Metallica. None of them?

And I thought you had no creditability before! I guess there is something called "less than zero". You really don't know music too well, do you? I will make a novena for you to St. Jude.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 05:44am


You don't see any of the nine nominees being worthy? Not the Stooges; Jeff Beck, Metallica. None of them?

ME:AS I said, The only one I am a fan of is the Stooges, but being this is the 7th time they are on the list, then its not gonna happen.
Metallica, have done nothing " special " to get into the hall of fame in my opinion, but sell out. Not a Fan of anything Metallica released after And Justice for All...Could care less for it.
Run DMC, is not Rock and roll and in my opinion it has no place in the hall.
Jeff Beck, who only has what 2 albums that were big sellers? but other than that he is just known for his guitar playing.. thats it..In my opinion.
Chic, Disco, need I say more?
Wanda Jackson, might make it since they " try " to put atleast one woman in.
War, I see will get in, because they are the only that have had the most hits of those nominated.



And I thought you had no creditability before! I guess there is something called "less than zero". You really don't know music too well, do you? I will make a novena for you to St. Jude.

Oh btw, Nice comments about me in other threads, glad to know I spark up some controversy. Gives ya something to talk about.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 06:13am


The Stooges will be finally inducted. If not, I hope Jinx puts a curse on the Hall of Fame.

You claim that Beck had only two albums that sold and is only known as a guitar player.

Hasn't that been your basic premise for Coven. They may not have sold, but they still belong because they brought the horn sign into Rock. Your first comment regarding Coven was on 9/13 and I copy paste some of it:
------------------------------------------------
The hand sign is a part of it, It goes with what Coven stood for, what they represent, who they are and most importantly Coven did the sign first before any other Musicians out there. They influenced a lot of bands, even if not cited as a influence.

Coven is deffinatly RNRHOF worthy than some of the musicians that get put in, that are not even rock and roll, or those that are major sell outs.
Coven are Pioneers,
-------------------------------------------------

I would say that Beck did have some commercial success, was a pioneer on the guitar and was cited as being a massive influence in many genres of Rock. What Beck stood for is virtuosity. When discussing music, to me, that is a bit more substantial than inner belief systems. He did his thing and it didn't matter whether it was in the genres of Hard Rock, Blues, Jazz or Pop. No sell out there.

That means he matches and trumps all the reasoning that you gave for Coven.

When you make statements as ill founded as the ones you did about The Stooges, Beck and some of the other nominees, you should expect to hear it from some of us. Believe me, I am glad that you try to enter other conversations; truly.

Can't help but mentioning you on other threads. You are like a superstar.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 06:48am


Jimmy-
"My Father never worked for Various record companies in his life time. 60s - 90s until his retirement, and his passing not to long ago, I never grew up in this scene,Never knew most of the people. I don't know the facts. Something that none of you are willing to accept."

Agreed!!!

"where as you are just mocking Mr. St. Barnabas Hospital"

Hardly making fun,I was born there!

FYI-The act of plagirism (in this instance) is to take EXACT words and claim them as YOUR own.
Such was NOT done with "your" words,they were altered therefore NOT plagirised.

A perfect plagirism example:

Jinx Dawson said in an interview:
"when you are young, you look for answers"

St. Retardo Jimmy copied EXACTLY verbatum:
"when you are young, you look for answers"
when confronted about his intercation with Charles Manson.

Couldn't even alter ONE word!

Dawson said it herself about her finances,she is comfortable enough relaying it in an interview.
A sheriff's sale is when they come in and take away whatever they now OWN,and sell it for what they can get.
Not a good thing = no finances available to save said item to be sold.

Excerpted VERBATUM from : Cut/pasted exactly from her interview:
http://www.nuvo.net/articles/
web_exclusive__from_broad_ripple_to_one_tin_soldier/

"The necklace she wears with her name in gold belies the fact that the “Goth Queen,” as she is called on the Internet, is far from wealthy. In fact, she lost hundreds of thousands of dollars while caring for her sick father, the late Robert L. Dawson Sr."

Jinx Dawson:
"I also lost land and property at Dawson Lake. I had to sell most of my life’s belongings brought from Los Angeles by the largest Mayflower moving truck they had; I sold my three automobiles, and I had to even sell a lot of my red carpet wardrobe on eBay".

Hardly selling a few things...
I could care less if your opinion changes,everyone views you as an idiot,fool.
I have come to ENJOY,RELISH you getting angry,fuming over such an anasinine topic because you're a creep who looks to Charles Manson for answers,and shoots off his mouth as an expert which you are NOT!

~St.Barnabas~

Posted by ~St. Baranabas~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 08:45am


St.Jimmy
"Well We can do that also...

To whom it may concern, It seems that you are recieving messages, from those that participated in the Coven thread, if you will read in those posts, it is those that are making the conversation distracting, Bringing up subjects and a bunch of non sense to the conversation, We are simply there to talk about a band that we enjoy, and we should feel that should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.. and those that come in and bash us.. Again the proof is in the conversations.. Again over and over this attacking on us and why we feel they should be inducted has come to this.
I thank you for your time."

St.Dimmy- Printout the above,roll it up reeeal tight bend over and insert into your arse,after you of course remove your brain.
Oh wait...

~St.Barnabas~

Posted by ~St.Barnabas~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 08:57am


St Jimmy:
"Again the proof is in the conversations.. Again over and over this attacking on us"

Jimmy- Anyone who read/reads the thread will unearth that YOU are guilty of the aforementioned just as much as anyone else who partook.

Posted by Dale on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 09:11am


Past post by someone:

"The necklace she wears with her name in gold belies the fact that the “Goth Queen,” as she is called on the Internet, is far from wealthy. In fact, she lost hundreds of thousands of dollars while caring for her sick father, the late Robert L. Dawson Sr."


Getting back to the subject at hand and OFF of Miss Dawson's financial situation, which I am sure none of us know exactly and she DID SAY the reason she was willing to sell many of her things was to care for her cancer father who she managed to keep alive for 7 EXTRA YEARS when he was given ONLY 6 months to live. I say that is a VERY special music artist. Not only willing to give up her savings BUT her time away from the music she loves.YOU DON'T seem to read entire articles.

Plus, do you guys not read the news? Two large financial institutions were just bailed out? The country is having hard times.Some people because of high medical costs for loved ones.Have you all not been touched in some way by all this going on?


AGAIN I AM REPOSTING MY SAME COMMENT ABOVE:

I just perused the list of the new nominees.6 out of 9 are NOT Rock and Roll.Chic, Wanda Jackson, Bobby Womack, Run DMC, Little Anthony, War.The only Rock nominees left are Jeff Beck, Stooges and Metallica.

Has the "Rock and Roll" moniker been changed by big money corporate outfits to encompass all music? I understand too that they only give out one free pass to the winner for the induction.That is why I am for bands like Coven that truly did something to change the course of ROCK music for the love of what they were doing and WERE NOT a part of the BIG MUSIC MONEY MACHINE.

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 09:50am


The Stooges will be finally inducted. If not, I hope Jinx puts a curse on the Hall of Fame.

ME: Yea IF they do, its only because they sold their souls over to Madonna.

You claim that Beck had only two albums that sold and is only known as a guitar player.

ME: and had two hit albums in the mid-1970s as a solo act. However, Beck has not been able to establish and maintain a broad following outside of other guitar players or the sustained commercial success of many of his collaborators and bandmates. " SO I was right,.Just known for his guitar, Copy and pasted as you did.

Hardly selling a few things...
I could care less if your opinion changes,everyone views you as an idiot,fool.
I have come to ENJOY,RELISH you getting angry,fuming over such an anasinine topic because you're a creep who looks to Charles Manson for answers,and shoots off his mouth as an expert which you are NOT!

~St.Barnabas~
ME: And you, as I said before I am over your amusement, Twist you words to look witty and funny, thief. First off you dont get me angry I LAUGH at you. Its the internet and do you think I am going to take you SERIOUS, you are badly mistaken. Get over yourself.

Jimmy- Anyone who read/reads the thread will unearth that YOU are guilty of the aforementioned just as much as anyone else who partook.

ME: And they will see that it within the lines of the conversation, unlike Batman, Ironman, and such

Getting back to the subject at hand and OFF of Miss Dawson's financial situation, which I am sure none of us know exactly and she DID SAY the reason she was willing to sell many of her things was to care for her cancer father who she managed to keep alive for 7 EXTRA YEARS when he was given ONLY 6 months to live. I say that is a VERY special music artist. Not only willing to give up her savings BUT her time away from the music she loves.YOU DON'T seem to read entire articles.

ME: It is a very special artist. These bozo's just look for reasons to drag someone down.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 11:48am


Jimmy - I want you to read very carefully exactly what you just wrote, "However, Beck has not been able to establish and maintain a broad following outside of other guitar players or the sustained commercial success of many of his collaborators and bandmates."

That is the perfect example of influence. I mean, what does the word following mean? Other musicians listened to what he did and it influenced their way of playing and thinking. Record sales be damned (no pun intended). He is what he is, IMO, the greatest Rock guitarist ever. And you know what, that makes him Hall of Fame worthy. He practically invented the sound of Hard Rock. I think Dave Davies needs to share in some of that as well. And I would bet Beck has a much larger follwing than a certain band which I will not mention.

See, this is not me giving you a hard time. This is you stepping into your own pile just because you feel it is important to go against some of us because we don't share your views on Coven.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 12:47pm


Jimmy..."However, Beck has not been able to establish and maintain a broad following outside of other guitar players or the sustained commercial success of many of his collaborators and bandmates."

Ok, you will see now that Jimmy and I are not the same person because I am going to quote him and say this exactly the same situation for COVEN.Their following too was mostly among other musicians and their sales were not huge, sans the movie title song Jinx sung.

And I know will argue on this point as myspace is definately no measurment by ANY means but you are all quoting stats, and for someone to be up for the Hall you would assume they would have more hits than 217,665 views and 8646 friends.
(In comparison COVEN just at one site has 116,568 views and 7,041 friends.

By the way, I enjoy Jeff Beck also.

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 13:29pm


To Lilith and Carla-

You argued that big $ is driving the music world, while pining for what appears to be a more bucolic, less corporate past. The simple fact is you may be pining for it cause yoou've lost touch w/contemporary rock. Let's explore that past, shall we:

How many people are running around w/tickets from Woodstock? They paid for it. The concert itself was to hype the building of a studio, itself a $-making venture.

The Jeff. Airplane once did a commercial for Levi's Jeans in the 60's. The Doors - "Come on Buick, Light My Fire". On a doc. on drugs I saw a 60's 7-up psychedelic commercial.

The best though, is the video "Message to Love". It concerns the Isle of Wight Festival (Aug. 26-30, 1970). The poor promoter, "Rikki", at one point has to explain to the pampered audience why they must pay 3 pounds. "This is the way the world works" he notes. Later Joan Baez covers herself for not playng more freebies by claiming that "these kids have been handed a rotten stinking world, and there rebelling against it". 25 yrs. later Gen X said the same thing, but the boomers called it whining.

Oh where, oh where did the trip from "hip"pie to "hyp"ocrite begin? Don't feel bad though. I once told myself the same things about 80's metal and 90's grunge.

Cheesecrop

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 13:32pm


Cheesecrop: you make a few good points. Corporate big money has always tried to latch onto the music biz. BUT NOW IT IS PATHETIC.Bands have to make some money to KEEP creating music. But $1,000 + tix, big amounts for commercials, tv shows for the musicians wives for the big boys, and everyone CAN NOW GET ALL THE SMALLER BANDS MUSIC FOR FREE OFF THE INTERNET or bootlegs. How can the uncorporate smaller artist survive.

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 13:45pm


P.S. COVEN represents everything Corporate America is against.Nudity, paganism, anti religion and some very explicit songs.And they started doing this way back in 1969. They will never be corporate and thus will never probably be in the Hall no matter what they do.But they have more balls for what they have presented than most bands.And isn't that what Rock and Roll is about?

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 14:07pm


There is a massive gulf between the have's and have not's out there today. Still, the smaller artist does have a lot of options. There's certainly more clubs to play in today's world. The old-fashioned DIY asthetic can still be put into place. The catch is putting modern technology to use w/in a club aesthetic. This is the one area so far that has not been affected by the industry decline. Using the internet to connect clubs together into a circuit of sorts, and bringing fans closer together is the key here.

Try this for an idea: An album where all of the beat structures come from text-messaging. Picture an act going on tour and playing 50 club dates in several states (mind you, these are all totally hypothetical #). Let the band collect e-mails from people who caught them live, and take out both the basic text-messages and anything that can be broken down into a text-message. Turn the texting into a 21st century morse code of sorts (dotd & dashes representing bass and snares) and create songs around the structures. Play the songs at the next date & let everyone vote on what's the best. One you've culled enough material, put it together and release it. You've created an album where fans not only have input in choosing the tracks, but have actually put a stamp on the music itself. Think about it - a person in Chicago could have sent a message from one show they saw, and a person in Cincinnati could be hearing the message translated musically, and then vote whether the band had created something worthwhile out of it musically. It would open up a new depth of artist/fan interaction that would be more personal for the fans. It's a metter of figuring out what can be done w/all this stuff we've got to work with today.


Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 14:23pm


These are some very good points,
But I forgot to leave out, that yes the Stooges will be inducted, because If I remember correctly Madonna would not attend her induction unless the Stooges took the stage, The rock and Roll Hall of fame couldnt afford that Madonna would skip out on her induction ceremony. again this is a example of money and power, So the Stooges are a Shoo in, Because all she has to do is press her " I'm the Queen of Pop " thumb down, and its not right.. Its about getting in and making it on your on! And being that they have been on the list 7 times before, shows that they couldnt do it .

When her Confessions tour opened in L.A. I was on vacation, I attended opening night, I have the ticket stubs to prove also, 2 tickets for front row B. was $2,093.00. I went ahead and payed it because I am a fan of hers, ( The Madonna now, The grown up Madonna. ) And on the Sticky and Sweet Tour, I am NOT going to waste my time or money on that. I was going through some of my fathers things I brought with me during my move, Ticket stubs to see Frank Zappa and Alice Cooper, $2.50 at Cal. State Col. $5.00 to See Janis Joplin in 1968 at Filmore east.. the MOST expensive stubb I have is for the Mar Y Sol Pop Festival in 72..Black Sabbath Headlined. 149.00... you pay more than that for good seats at Ozzfest now! I posted some of these on my mypspace page a few minutes to go. And more to come.

Many of the Musicians out there really dont care about the music anymore, its about how much money they can make. Bands like Coven, were not about the money, In a interview, one of the members said, they lived out of each others pocket, if one of them had $10.00 they all had $10.00.. that in my opinion is true musicianship. That proves that it was all about the music with them, hats off and horns up.

I myself like Beck, he is a exceptional Guitar player, for some reason though it seems people like to twist my words. I never said he didnt influence anyone.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 14:31pm


"St.Dimmy- Printout the above,roll it up reeeal tight bend over and insert into your arse,after you of course remove your brain.
Oh wait..."

I LOVE THIS^^^^^ ,this Dimmy dude is a real ahole.
Especially his obsession over this band.

About st.jimmy-
"Can't help but mentioning you on other threads. You are like a superstar"

Yeah a Superstar Retard
Laughing my freakin ass off !

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 14:48pm


Cheesecrop,
Something to that effect has been down, Life of Agony, Their biggest seller was their first album, " River Runs Red. " and it also destroyed the band, the fans could not let that album go, they released 4 albums after that before the Live album they simply Titled " River Runs Red Again " As mentioned the bass player is the one I am close with, and we stopped the leaked album of his offset Project "Spoiler NYC"
The fans simply wanted nothing but songs from River Runs Red, after that album, they never had another hit album. Keith Caputo the lead singer, The album was recorded ( the River Runs Red Again ) At Irving Plaza, in NYC, would ask the audience what songs they wanted to hear from River Runs Red to the album they released at that time " Soul Searching Sun" needless to say, it turned out a 2 disc cd. most of the songs are from River Runs Red. They released one more album, Broken Valley, and that was it, but they still tour together and with their new projects, playing those tours also.. but its all mostly from the River Runs Red album, that still make the fans happy when they play those from that album live.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 15:00pm


"Well go to her My Space and PM her!
She's broke,pushing 60,just had a massve heart attack...
"Save up your paper route money and take her to Denny's.
Who knows maybe you'll get lucky,shouldn't be too hard at this point."

"OUCH!! ROFL
hey she's elible for social security soon."

"Yeah that is pretty hysterical
and so TRUE!"

"So can we buy her "big" movie direct to dvd or can we download for free for a hoot when it comes out?
Cause as anyone knows it AIN"T gonna be a big budget affair,get seen by many people."

Yikes! the more i read the better it gets!
LMAO,all gold,gold i tell ya.

Jimmy -"That proves that it was all about the music with them, hats off and horns up."

Dontcha mean horns up "your" arse foolio!


Posted by unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 15:17pm


"Get over yourself fanboy - enjoy Coven, stare at 40 y.o. posters and keep calling Charlie Manson Uncle Charlie. Maybe he will send you a card on your next b-day."
Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 16:43pm

ROFL more gold!!

This tard jimmy should have a t.v. i'm considering making popcorn and inviting friends over and read along.

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 15:31pm


Lilith:
"And I know will argue on this point as myspace is definately no measurment by ANY means but you are all quoting stats, and for someone to be up for the Hall you would assume they would have more hits than 217,665 views and 8646 friends.
(In comparison COVEN just at one site has 116,568 views and 7,041 friends"

Jeff Beck's fans go to his official or semi- official pages as opposed to the shit my space.

Considering the Coven page has been up since 2006 and 2009 is around the corner their stat's (not that it proves anything on my space anyways) are nothing!!
20 yr.old nobody chicks have HUGE numbers in comparision.
You guys think arguing them here just to keep the name out there is making a differnce.
It's not.
Nobody cares about this footnote band on a large scale.

Posted by Penumbra 101 on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 15:43pm


Gosh, I just dont know what to say, other than I really love this mr/ms paranoia, thinks they can anger me, keep on admitting to stealing music, im sure people reading that would love to know.

gosh darn, man I cant keep up with this schizo, your just to darn funny, cant realize that its the internet, dang.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 15:56pm


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~
Rambling about Madonna-
"I attended opening night, I have the ticket stubs to prove also, 2 tickets for front row B. was $2,093.00."

Superstar Retard in action ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 15:56pm


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~
"Gosh, I just dont know what to say, other than I really love this mr/ms paranoia, thinks they can anger me, keep on admitting to stealing music, im sure people reading that would love to know."

Never stole any music in my life.
Reading this thread dorko it's obvious theres the majority of people and they ain't all the same person think you're an obseevive fan idiot creep who seeked Chales Manson for answers no less.

You care,if you didn't you would of moved on ages ago.
You keep bumping this thread thinking your helping your beloved group get noticed.
You ain't...


Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:04pm


Rambling about Madonna-
"I attended opening night, I have the ticket stubs to prove also, 2 tickets for front row B. was $2,093.00."

ME: if you would read retard you would see that we were talking about ticket prices, but your head is so far up your arse all you can smell and see is shit. being thats all you are full of, so move along faker male/female, whatever, your comments are as funny as those of Lady Bunny, Look her up you will see what I am comparing you too, and trust me shes funny.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:20pm


Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~
" but your head is so far up your arse all you can smell and see is shit."

All I see is YOU when looking...

Male/female,stealing music...

Jimmy,calm down!
Did you NOT take your ahem meds today.
Or is it time for a rest cure,yet again...

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:25pm


Jimmy,calm down!
Did you NOT take your ahem meds today.
Or is it time for a rest cure,yet again...

Dude maybe it's time for ~St. Jimmy ~ to write Uncle Charlie Manson for some answers,guidence

Whoever downloaded music-Downloading a few tunes is nothing dude, ~St. Jimmy ~ is a real piece of work writing Manson n all.

Posted by rot gut whiskey on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:33pm


And this proves my point even more that you are the same person, you copy and paste everything that has to do with Manson.. you wont type you copy and paste. SO it really looks like you are the one thats obsessing over him, You take peoples words twist them add words to them to make yourself look funny and clever.
Oh and by the way, it looks like Coven is ranking up there with Kiss in the comment dept. people like you that keep comming back for more, and I dont back down, so keep looking the fool, the more you twist the words, the more I will come back.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:34pm


Whoever downloaded music-Downloading a few tunes is nothing dude, ~St. Jimmy ~ is a real piece of work writing Manson n all.

Posted by rot gut whiskey on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:33pm

ME: Downloading anything without paying is stealing.. even if it is a " few tunes. "

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:36pm


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~
"And this proves my point even more that you are the same person, you copy and paste everything that has to do with Manson.. you wont type you copy and paste. SO it really looks like you are the one thats obsessing"

OH MY GOD!! lol
Thats almost VERBATUM EVERYTHING YOU HAVE BEEN ACCUSED OF ON THIS THREAD!!!!
What dope, it's cool when there's much being said that's new,intersting.
Such is NOT the case with you and this thread.
You like hearing yourself talk I guess cause likle Daemon and others pointed out you made your points MANY times,move on...
The numbers are insignificant here,besides the fact you just keep bumping it up.

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:44pm


And Proves my point more, if your going to say something like " you didnt take your meds " wouldnt say it again, unless you know you are just copying what was said, and not being original - Gitarzan

You guys just do not want to accept the FACT that the media lies to you, and that Coven were responsible for many bands.. but that just goes to show how feeble your minds really are. And yet again, It was NEVER said in here I wrote Manson, so that in again is proof of you being the one to twist words. Re read again fake boy, your quite the laughing stock on my radio show as we speak. Hell I may even include the Callers reading your comments out loud in my podcast airing tonight.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:55pm


I HAVE A BIG BAT TRAMP STAMP ON MY TIGHT ROUND ASS.

NOW that I have your attention, maybe you "boys" can stop bantering bullshit for at least a few entries.
AND I shall repeat:

Cheesecrop: you make a few good points. Corporate big money has always tried to latch onto the music biz. BUT NOW IT IS PATHETIC.Bands have to make some money to KEEP creating music. But the few big corporate bands at $1,000 +++ concert tix, big amounts for commercials, tv shows for the musicians wives(Sharon,oops,YOU KNOW WHO I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE) get the lions share while everyone CAN NOW GET ALL THE SMALLER BANDS MUSIC FOR FREE OFF THE INTERNET or on bootlegs. How can the uncorporate smaller artist survive?

P.S. COVEN represents everything Corporate America is against.Nudity, paganism, anti religion and some very explicit songs.And they started doing this way back in 1969. They will never be corporate and thus will never probably be in the Hall no matter what they do.But they have more BALLS for what they have presented than most bands.And isn't that what Rock and Roll is about?

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 16:57pm


LOL Lilith
And I agree, as I posted earlier 2,093.00 was for 2 tickets to see Madonna on the Confessions tour, was too Pricey, but purchased them anyways.It was over 500 for Ozzfest,I just buy the dvd's now. Not Going to happen again, and I also posted prices of old ticket stubbs too, compared from then and now, it shows how much it has " latched " on to some of the big artists. And also I agree that its hard for the smaller bands to to make it, with all the downloading that is done everyday, people oppose to paying 99 cents for a song on Itunes where as they log on to what is it bearshare and such and get it for free.
And when it comes down to it, The artist themselves are not making money, sure they get a profit, but its nothing compared to sold out tours and such. Expenses like lighting, crew, ect ect add up.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 17:08pm


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~
"you wont type you copy and paste."

St. Jimmy,in all seriousness cut/paste is used
A. to display the posters EXACT words,it's easy and fast.
B.ANYONE can peruse this thread and read what you/I wrote and decide to comment.
C. You can't tell what was typed or cut/pasted simply because they quoted you,it's exact wording.
I'd venture to guess no one is going to type out my/your exact wording.
Who does that?
No,you cut/paste, nothing wrong doing so either.
I actually prefer it because as mentioned it's the posters exact words.

The critiscim with you was you didn't use your own words when replying to direct questions.
You cut and paste from the internet sources available without giving credit you did so.
Such was the case when you used Dawson's exact reply when she addressed the satanism.
You verbatum used as your reason for contacting Charles Manson.


You have also repeatedly used exact things that were said to you by myself back to me.

Jeez, Even if it's an insult at least come up with your OWN material.

BTW-unless your posts are copyrighted here they are not being plagirised,besides the fact that they were altered.

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 17:17pm


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

"And Proves my point more, if your going to say something like " you didnt take your meds " wouldnt say it again, unless you know you are just copying what was said, and not being original "

Jimmy that's one of the oldest cliched' lines ever.
Everybody makes that joke.


" Re read again fake boy, your quite the laughing stock on my radio show as we speak. Hell I may even include the Callers reading your comments out loud in my podcast airing tonight"

EXCELLENT !
Can I call in or tune in?
PLEASE read lots of mine I would like to record them and air them on MY radio podcast!

You had said you had contact with Charles Manson,considering he's been behind bars one would think that you wrote him.
So you visited him is what you're implying?
That's even MORE bizarre!

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 17:28pm


~ St. Jimmy ~

Jimmy -PLEASE READ MINE
I have access to the proper technology that might enable me to locate your signal if your in my area and "run into" you in person also!

How great would that be?
Are you in the N.Y. area?

"Dying" for our paths to cross.

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 17:33pm


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~
"Hell I may even include the Callers reading your comments out loud in my podcast airing tonight"

Jim,I'm kind of bummed...
So how will all the listeners know who said what?
Will you be naming ever name that was posted in this thread or just a selct few.
I do want CREDIT where CREDIT is due

Thanks in advance

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 17:42pm


I love waking up in the morning to someone who has already started having sex with me...

NOW that I have your attention, maybe you "boys" can stop bantering bullshit for at least a few entries.
AND I shall repeat AGAIN:

Cheesecrop: you make a few good points. Corporate big money has always tried to latch onto the music biz. BUT NOW IT IS PATHETIC.Bands have to make some money to KEEP creating music. But the few big corporate bands at $1,000 +++ concert tix, big amounts for commercials, tv shows for the musicians wives(Sharon,oops,YOU KNOW WHO I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE) get the lions share while everyone CAN NOW GET ALL THE SMALLER BANDS MUSIC FOR FREE OFF THE INTERNET or on bootlegs. How can the uncorporate smaller artist survive?

P.S. COVEN represents everything Corporate America is against.Nudity, paganism, anti religion and some very explicit songs.And they started doing this way back in 1969. They will never be corporate and thus will never probably be in the Hall no matter what they do.But they have more BALLS for what they have presented than most bands.And isn't that what Rock and Roll is about?

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:04pm


Again the above posts are quite funny.

But one more thing before I go, Its becoming such a bigger " corporation " every day, With artists loosing rights to their material, I think that was proven when Michael Jackson purchased the Beatles Catalog, which makes me wonder if Paul or Ringo have to pay " fees " to him, if they preform a Beatles song. I believe that I read that an artist can loose rights after 30 years, So anyone can come along and " take whats up for grabs so to speak.

The musicians that are not a part of the Corporation, have no chance of survival, Metallica did stop napster from having their music up there for free, which is good, But then again in some instances, it sometimes helps a artist, and then the back fall is it hurts them.. Chances are that if its up for download, and they can get it for free, even a few tunes, they will take that, than opposed to paying .99 cents per song. I look at it this way, you take something without paying for it, its stealing, And Itunes NOW if you purchase a album from them or music, you cant burn to c.d. and the Industry now wants to make it illegal to have music on your computer, You pay for it, its yours, there shouldnt be a problem, I was reading that a woman is being sued per song she has on her computer. With that being said, then that only proves that actions are being traced so to speak.

With the industry, its all about money, they constantly rip off artists and fans.. and its not a cent comming out of their pocket, they dont care.. Some Albums now have where you cant upload to your computer..Copy Protected, instead a media player of sorts comes on and plays that c.d.
Artists that have the means such as the mentioned Sharon Comment lol.. in all reality, she has no clue to any of it, she just learned from her father, and what they do have, they dont really own, they have more debt that actual belongings. its 2 simple words, "Charge It". They have to tour these extensive dates, and then have to add more venues, promote the albums like hell, To make the money to go into the studio to do a follow up album, and if the means arent correct, the album flops so to speak, leaving them bills to the producers, studio time, ect ect.


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:04pm


"Again the above posts are quite funny."
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

Funny? now I'm insulted.
Jim,it's just like you to get my hopes up only to tear them down.
I'm in the N.J./N.Y. area tell me when I can call your show and like I said (fingers crossed)if your close with the technology I have at my disposal and it's not too far we can "chat" in person!
Or when will all your callers be reading my posts?
Like i said I have my podcast I can air them on,and would like to record them (for future use).

I GUARANTEE a good time will be had by ALL.

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:15pm


Sharon Osbourne for president.


That's for all you pussy boys that won't answer me.What are you gay and in love with this St.Jimmy guy or what?????????????????????????????????????????

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:21pm


"Her age was critisised because an older artist that actually had a successful longterm career can take time off for years then "comeback".
Due to the fact there IS SOMETHING to comeback too!
And that can even be hard.
A musical legacy people actually care about,heard of.
Like Chuck Berry can take 20 yrs off,he is ESTABLISHED,respected,KNOWN.


An unknown pushing 60...
No one really cares about this band on a LARGE/minor scale.
So to be making claims of a comeback it just sounds wishful,bizarre really as they were a one hit wonder many yrs ago.
And like you said that song isn't a representation of who they are.

Bottomline- You need something to COMEBACK to @ 57 other than a hand gesture to be taken seriously.

The hand sign has since become corny,maudlin,played out since Miley Cyrus fans,George Bush and every other fan has been doing it."

Truth gotta stand,wishe her good luck none the less.

Posted by Denise on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:30pm


You must be either corporate or Christian.(which is pretty much the same now)

COVEN represents evertything Corporate America is against.Nudity, paganism, anti religion and some very explicit songs.And they started doing this way back in 1969. They will never be corporate and thus will never probably be in the Hall no matter what they do.But they have more balls for what they have presented than most bands.And isn't that what Rock and Roll is about?

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:38pm


"That's for all you pussy boys that won't answer me.What are you gay and in love with this St.Jimmy guy or what?????????????????????????????????????????"
Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:21pm

Sorry Lilith,and no to all the above for myself.
I just enjoy Jimmy's company very much and am trying to get to call in to his show or (hopefully) "run into" him being I think he might be located in my neck of the woods.
the greater NY/NJ area.
What did you ask anyway?
lol

I wonder if Jimmy does differnt accents to create the illusion he has many listeners.
Huh,Jim that's the angle I can call up and read my posts for your listeners,but being you are sure I'm allthe same poster I can use various accents!
Yes!

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:41pm


"You must be either corporate or Christian.(which is pretty much the same now)"
Posted by lilith

Oh jeez a definitive NO!
I despise that scene just as much as you.
This has become more about "Jimmy" then Coven.
I own the orig. vinyl albums by them,picked them up many years ago before there was an E-Bay,internet.
He's become my Moby,wait Jimmy Dick!

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 18:51pm


You must be either corporate or Christian.(which is pretty much the same now)

Pretty much yea, Christianity has had its hold on everything, all they have to do is protest and go to officials. And those officials listen because they are a voting majority, and the less the officials do, the more votes they lose. Christianity goes beyond the barriers of the seperation of church and state, they have more say in matters than anyone. I feel that they should be taxed. They butt in on the state, and Coven's case the music and preformances, and its affairs, so should be taxed. No different than any other corporation. They just use the the church as a excuse. I learned in my lifetime, christianity is one of the main problems with this country, it breeds many even to killing in the name of god.

Posted by M.Vagarus on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 19:28pm


Directed to M.Vagarus

Right,
and Coven would probably hold the world's record at being the first to be banned because of christianity, just as Lilith posted awhile back.
It goes from having to take their items from the stage show, shorting preformance lengths, not allowed to speak in English, Latin only.. detained for conspiracy to start a riot, The list goes on with Coven. Albums pulled, which is probably also the first case that that has happend, before days of now, because they have their parental advisory stickers, Controversy has always followed Coven. And also as Lilith has said " But they have more balls for what they have presented than most bands.And isn't that what Rock and Roll is about?" Its because with Coven it was about the music, Not the money, where as today, these guys sell out as soon as they get offered to have themselves cast into a doll. Well most, and you have those true musicians and vocalists that don't sell out, they stay true. And yes, bands like Coven are what rock and roll is all about.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 20:50pm


Let's stop this now. I am the first to admit that the Christian right tends to get their dirty little hands into places that they shouldn't. Leadership of all religions like to think of themselves as the truly righteous ones in the world. They are pathetic; but that is not the problem here.

That being said, don't go blaming Coven's lack of success on anyone but where it belongs; the band, its management and the record label.

The more some group (churches)that claims itself to be the moral protector of the world go against artists and bands that they deem unsafe, the more kids will flock to them. I have read both Jimmy and Matt state how Coven played on tour dates with successful bands. This means that Coven had an opportunity to reach the kids, a large amount of them. And this was at a time when the kids were open to anything anti-establishment. They had access to a possible listening audience. If there music was good, the kids wouldn't have given a damn about what some lunatic preacher had to say.

Why didn't Christianity go after Alice and Sabbath as you say they did with Coven. They had a large following of fans. Why not try and rid the world of those artists who had a greater subversive impact on their flocks? Why should the farmer go after the fox that kills one out of every 10 chickens when he can go after the other fox who only kills 9 out of every 10 chickens? Do you see the failures of your logic?

Get it through your heads, the music was decent and enjoyable for some, but it did not connect with a large listening audience, therefore they did not succeed. They were nothing special. They are not Hall of Fame worthy. They don't belong in the same hallowed halls as Dylan, The Beatles, The Kinks, The Who, Queen and even Black Sabbath.

Ad please do not comeback at me with how Coven were different and truly persecuted by those that didn't understand them because they were true witches, not like Sabbath and Alice who were just acts. To do so would only prove how naive you are. This is what differentiates fans from fanboys.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 06:24am


I have read both Jimmy and Matt state how Coven played on tour dates with successful bands. This means that Coven had an opportunity to reach the kids, a large amount of them.

Me: And how could they do this, when they were Banned, and stopped from doing their whole stage show? Items pulled, No speaking in english, thats censorship.. Fact being they couldnt..and in fact it is being persecuted, Because this is how they believe. It is what was true to them.

and why would they want to stop Sabbath? Sabbath didnt wear inverted crosses, have a Black Mass during the stage show. Your lucky Ozzy was not stoned out of his head to even preform, he even messed up gigs for the band. There was nothing to stop Sabbath from doing, They did have a controversy over the inside of the first LP that had a Inverted cross, But they band were against it, it was the Record Companys decision.

And as far as Alice Cooper ever getting in, dont see that happening either, Nothing creative about him, Bowie did it first, All Alice did was take on a womans name and wear makeup and dress in womens clothing... kinda like drag rock to me. Just a sell out. You see that today with Marilyn Manson.

Posted by ~St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 06:47am


And my closing, on the above mentioned, If Coven were a band today, to be doing the Black Mass, Inverted Crosses, Dark Arts, Ritual Table.. There would be no problem, unless there is a big controversy.Today, the Media takes the christians actions to the extreme, They are the ones that get heard, Watching something now on the Fox about how to tell if your child is in the Occult.. Every person is a " Expert On The Occult." And those that " Converted BACK to Christianity." So therefore again your getting the Christian influence on the Media. The parents that are Watching this, are more than likely going to go through their childrens albums and take them away.. Point being what happened in 1966 when John Lennon made his statement.. Christianity took its toll on that also. But then some parents know what it represents, and it dont bother them.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 07:31am


You know Jimmy, in the beginning, I had fun bashing away at you in a friendly online manner. But your last comments only show your f'n ignorance in both music and the world.
So let's get the facts straight and cut the bull.

Coven toured with Jimmy Page's Yardbirds and appeared at some festivals. You are correct that they were censored at a few of their shows; but only a handful and I don't recall them ever being outright banned, but I could be wrong on this. Maybe they were for one or two shows, I don't know. If anything, this type of censorship would have gotten them all the publicity they needed to make a big push for success. It would normally have gotten the crowd even more behind them, but it didn't. What part of this don't you understand? If the establishment said it was no good for us, we went in the complete opposite direction. What the f'k do you think counter-culture stands for? Here is the difference between me and you, my historical facts are based on actual experience because that was my friggin generation. All you are doing is going by things that you have read. Some peole here think you are a teenager, and I believe you mentioned once that you are 37. Either way, you were not a around until at least 1971. And that would be a year after the Esquire article which Coven and the counter-culture received some unneeded publicity due to Charlie (Criminal) Manson. However, with the release of One Tin Soldier, even though it wasn't an actual Coven tune, because of heavy rotation on the radio, Coven finally had a chance to break it wide open. And they couldn't. Why? It certainly wasn't because the man was still pushing them down. What was the reason? the song is considered the greatest of all anti-war songs. Coven should have been able to ride the wave on that for all it was worth. but they didn't. The f'n song charted in three different years. They had three years to reap the benefits and they couldn't. Is it just possible that they were not great songwriters? I mean, really, the door to that has to be open just a bit I think.

I grant you that Jinx used the horned hand sign and inverted crosses on stage first. I still don't see what is so damn special about that. I could care less about their belief system then or now. In the end, we are all worm food anyway.
And I will admit that Coven is one of the pioneers of Dark Metal or Death Metal; whatever it is called. Again, this is nothing special, because it is nothing but a sub-sub-sub genre of music. This is basically nothing more than a style of music which never gained much appeal and has a few thousand followers world-wide. Musically, it is not difficult to play, it is more of an attitude with volume. A cult status so to speak. But I mean no disrespect with that. I concede it to be a genre of sorts.

And as far as Alice Cooper ever getting in, dont see that happening either, Nothing creative about him, Bowie did it first, All Alice did was take on a womans name and wear makeup and dress in womens clothing... kinda like drag rock to me. Just a sell out. (jimmy)

As for Alice and Bowie; your statement is so incorrect it is not funny. First off, when you see many of us talking about Alice Cooper, we are talking about the band, not the individual. There were 5 members in that band and they were great. Now, Bowie released his 2nd album in 1969 (Space Oddity) the same year as Alice released their debut album. At the time, Bowie had yet to turn himself into the stylized rock personna that he was to become a couple of years later. He was still more of a folkie only with a better hair-cut. The Alice Cooper Band reintroduced vaudeville to a new generation. So Alice didn't copy Bowie. However, The Crazy World of Arthur Brown may have had some influence there. You do know who Arthur Brown is? And if Alice was such a sell-out as you claim, then why did your pure band Coven tour with them? Why would they do such a blasphemous thing? Hmmmmmmmm, could it be because they wanted to cash in on Alice's growing popularity? Hmmmmmmmm, sounds like a well thought out economic and marketing move to me. But since I am not in Jinx's head, I cannot comment on that for sure.

As for Sabbath, there is no talking to you. If you cannot understand what hundreds of musicians, famous and not famous have stated about them, then there is no helping you. Sabbath is the main influence for Heavy Metal. If you were to draw a family tree, the genre that you give Coven credit for is a branch that grows from other branches which grow from other branches that grow from the "Heavy Metal" branch.

I am done with you now. You are not even worth a giggle anymore. You are just a f'n bore.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 08:16am


As I was typing away, you went ahead and rambled on about Christianity again. The root of all evil. Trust me, I know, being brought up in a Roman Catholic household. If you are weak minded and cannot form your own opinions, then you follow hook, line and sinker.

As for Coven , we will see what happens if Jinx reforms the band and tries to finish what she started.

Now can you please let it go until her movie is released or she writes a new song.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 08:20am


I don't recall them ever being outright banned

ME: When a album is pulled, its banning, even though some places carried it, it was behind the counter, if that isnt a perfect example of banning I dont know what is! PLUS taking off there crosses ritual tables, from the stage again is another example of banning. Again that takes away from getting out what they set to do.


Some peole here think you are a teenager, and I believe you mentioned once that you are 37. Either way, you were not a around until at least 1971. And that would be a year after the Esquire article which Coven and the counter-culture received some unneeded publicity due to Charlie (Criminal) Manson.

ME: I never said my age, when the teenager was deal was mentioned. Again not only Coven suffered the backlash from that, Sabbath being on Mercury sub label had to push back comming to America. Source : Black Sabbath the Last Supper.

"And if Alice was such a sell-out as you claim, then why did your pure band Coven tour with them?"

Coven were on the same bills as Alice that was then, Alice sold out.

Sabbath is the main influence for Heavy Metal

ME: And Sabbath had to come from somewhere right? and other than Birmingham.

" If you cannot understand what hundreds of musicians, famous and not famous have stated about them"

Me: The media sells it they buy it. I know how to read.

And yea I am quite aware of A. Brown

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 10:00am


As for Sabbath, there is no talking to you. If you cannot understand what hundreds of
musicians, famous and not famous have stated about them, then there is no helping you.
Sabbath is the main influence for Heavy Metal. If you were to draw a family tree, the genre
that you give Coven credit for is a branch that grows from other branches which grow from
other branches that grow from the "Heavy Metal" branch.

Posted by blah-blah-blah

I am a Black Sabbath fan also,they are ALREADY in the Hall of fame and I AM NOT TRYING to take anything away from them, they had some great music, but if you do your reference work, Black Sabbath had many connections to Coven and the much earlier dates of COVEN releases do not lie.FIRST IS FIRST as far as the BRANCH YOU SPEAK OF. As for this post, COVEN came from a spooky old house in the middle of a America.They sprouted FROM NO OTHER HEAVY METAL/ GOTH METAL BRANCH.THEY WERE THE SEEDS OF THE HEAVY METAL TREE.

Posted by lilith on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 10:36am


"THEY WERE THE SEEDS OF THE HEAVY METAL TREE."

Someone needs to check out Link Wray...

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 12:03pm


Lilith and Jimmy

Bless your souls for believing in me and spreading the truth. Magical blessings will follow all your days in this life and the next. The day is coming when everyone will know what the two of you do.

Posted by Jinx Dawson on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 18:30pm


Lilith and Jimmy

Bless your souls for believing in me and spreading the truth. Magical blessings will follow all your days in this life and the next. The day is coming when everyone will know what the two of you do.

Also can either of you loan me $75 ,I'm a little short.
If so please visit my web page for mailing info.

Posted by Jinx Dawson on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 18:41pm


Ok First off the Jinx inpersonator, you need help, Because I know for a fact you are full of bullshit. NOW you have to go and make yourself look even more funny and clever.. When in fact you need help. NOW your wanting to be a woman, Might as well go have that sex change, Probably a huge fan of " drag rock " too, hell you may even preform in drag. Nothing wrong with it, gotta make that money somehow eh?. Too bad you dont hear Sabbath anymore on the radio anymore than their classics, only the Ozzy years, Being because they had to change their name and cant even sell a new album or get air play... thats because they are now a COVER BAND.. which makes them look a joke.

You guys dont want to accept the fact that COVEN are at the TOP of the Heavy Metal Tree, Not Black Sabbath. Just go on believing your Fake Rock Stars and their stories, maybe one day, They can Tell the truth, but then again, your feeble narrow minds cant comprehend the truth.

"Someone needs to check out Link Wray..."

Link Wray would be considered the ROOTS of PUNK in my opinion... not METAL.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 22:19pm


Oh and btw if Jinx is so broke, why does she have pic of the Band on her 42 sq ft yacht? looks like she is doing pretty well for herself.. and looks like she put up some articles too.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 23:26pm


Some of you guys are just tools. Try to get the last word in for yourselves.
Well I checked out the books, " Lords of Chaos,and Lucifer Rising."
I read some of them both off and on today at work,
its in plain " black and white " that Coven are the .. well pretty much the seeds of heavy metal. And I believe it, why would these books lie? and whom ever runs the Coven myspace page, why would they lie? They have no reason to lie, and I agree Lilith, " First IS First. " Nor do facts lie, maybe these guys are sexist or something, who knows. This I will say, you " Sabbath " guys are making this into the whole " Britney vs. Madonna " comparison, which to that I will say, Gimme Coven anyday..I have a Sabbath story and I lost respect for those guys and what Ozzy said to my 12 year old sister, Linda Blair was there that night also, and she was the ONLY person to apoligize to my sister, and it was not HER place to do so. My sister after seeing Black Sabbath, with my parents and myself, She wanted Ozzy's autograph, he told her to "piss off".. after that, he lost his credit as a artist, vocalist to me. So Linda gave her autograph, she had just finished working on The Exorcist, because there were promo shots of her at the after party. And chatted with my sister, to make her feel better. SHE is a human being. With that, it only proved to me that Sabbath were money makers, they didn't care about the fans, they wanted money money money, and they lost the time when money didn't matter, as they claimed that they said, " They only wanted to play music. "

The counter-culture comment also, I would like to say, it was also MY generation, and even though what people were against, we were turned on to it,
But in most cases, how could be fully turned on to it when everything was " edited " it was about getting the point and message out. So how could Coven get that message and point out? they couldn't.

I was lucky enough to get the " Witchcraft " album before it was pulled, for my birthday as I stated, and I remember to the DAY when I heard " White Witch of Rose Hall " it was on a radio station in San Antonio, and every time they played " Wicked Woman" it was followed by " White Witch." Jinx's vocals blew my mind, more powerful than that of Janis or Grace. Being that I also had long blond hair, and that she could pull off wearing black with that beautiful hair of hers, turned me on to dressing the same.

I think I have done enough rambling for a week lol.

Posted by Carla on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 02:26am


I read some of them both off and on today at work,
its in plain " black and white " that Coven are the .. well pretty much the seeds of heavy metal. And I believe it, why would these books lie? and whom ever runs the Coven myspace page, why would they lie? They have no reason to lie, and I agree Lilith, " First IS First. " Nor do facts lie, maybe these guys are sexist or something, who knows. (Carla)

Why is it that if these books, websites, whatever have it written in black and white, why should we believe that when we are being told by the Coven crew that everything we have read up to now were lies when it came to this subject. And really, MySpace is not the place to find the absolutes. Those is no fact checking on my space.

Let's move away from Sabbath. Since Jimmy likes to connect the dots and you seem to be in agreement with Lilith on first is first. I will kill two birds with one stone.

. Sympathy for the Devil (written 1967, released 1968) I guess that makes them first, afterall they did sing about the dark lord. So let's give all the credit to the Stones. I can live with that.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 04:25am


Because those books tell the TRUTH. They are very thoural, They have researched the FACTS. I have yet to get my hands on the Dani Filth book, who is a very SUCCESSFUL memeber of the band Cradle of Filth, Sells NUMBEROUS albums, has to see what he says about Jinx and Coven..these books are from ACCREDITED sources, not INTERVIEWS.

Sorry there, but "Sympathy for the Devil" is about the atrocities of mankind.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 06:07am


Jimmy, promise me you will never leave this site. You are without a doubt the best comic relief I have encountered the last few years. You should take your act on the road. Do you write your own material or do you have outside help? Don't you think Dameon was being a little sarcastic with that comment? I think you should write your own book, because there is no way anyone can question you. Too funny!

Is it true that the Backstreet Boys are the love sons of Jinx and the Devil himself? Is Jinx the real Rosemary? Maybe Mia Farrow, Ira Levin and Roman Polanski should be credited with starting Heavy Dark Metal.

Hey Jinx - what was that song by Screamin Jay Hawkins; "I Put A Spell On You"? Did Jay steal that idea from you one?

Will you cast a spell over me? I hope so!

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 06:49am


Gee, there you go again, being so funny that you seem to forget your knocking someones beliefs. Tacky and tasteless. Gee you so funny!!!

Hey, Just pointing out facts, no need to confuse those of fiction with facts. And I think he got the years confused too, with the 1967 album " Their Satanic Majesties request." Sympathy for the Devil didnt start recording until March - June and released in late 68, December to be exact, so pretty much might as well say 69. But hey thats ok.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 07:46am


Oh and btw if Jinx is so broke, why does she have pic of the Band on her 42 sq ft yacht? looks like she is doing pretty well for herself.. and looks like she put up some articles too.
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

Dearest St.Jimmy, Although I appreciate your "great' efforts thou is "working" here.
It cost money to have thy yacht,make thy payments...
Therefore if anyone would like to purchace an authentic goblin neckerchief,or a Coven spooky back pack they're available at thy Coven gift shoppe for purchase.
Or if one simply wants to help a cherished friend in peril you can send me money via my web page,
($75-$100 preferably).
And thou shall recieve good magick karma personally from myself.
Spook on...

Posted by Jinx Dawson on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 08:41am


Like I said; this is all too comical. Hey Jinx, I got a three dollar bill for you. Will that do?

Jimmy, you act like we actually take you and your information seriously. NOT!

Who nees Mother Theresa when we have Jinx Dawson.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 09:10am


Jinx Dawson (if that really is you), could you call off your minions & have them fly back to your dark castle-yacht?

If not, could you provide us with an incantation to stop them from infesting this site with assorted drivel about Coven?

Thanks

Posted by Paul in KY on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 09:20am


And this false Jinx inpersonation is supposed to bother me how? If you are really going " Mock " someone, you really need to know how this person really types. I bet you put on one hell of a drag show. such a truly tacky person, Let me know where I can catch your show!! I will DEFFANTLY look you up!! I bet its Hilarious.. Hell maybe even get you on the same stage with Lady Bunny and Lahoma Van Zant! A Laugh would be Guaranteed for all eh?

but hey, atleast my COMMENTS are full of Facts, unlike all of you, that cant except that a woman who fronted a band are the " seeds " of metal, must be gay, but hey there is nothing wrong with that, yay for gay, I hear its the IN thing to be these days, not my bag, but hey hats off to ya. But hey keep it up, like I said, you never know who reads this site.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 09:37am


these books are from ACCREDITED sources, not INTERVIEWS.(jimmy)

FYI- Anyone can write what they choose to in THEIR book (even a baffon like you).

In a book that MATTERS for accredited statistics like the Guiness Book Of World Records,it has to be PEER APPROVED to give it authentication as being accurate information.

I.E. A person that writes a medical book needs it to be taken PEER REVIEWED as a correct,acknowleged credible source etc.
Get it tard?

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 09:45am


must be gay, but hey there is nothing wrong with that, yay for gay, I hear its the IN thing to be these days, not my bag, but hey hats off to ya. But hey keep it up, like I said, you never know who reads this site. (jimmy)

Very true,and the aforementioned comment made by yourself just alienated,offends gay people.
Real class act you are jimmy.
You're the biggest hypercrite,you preach those who have made fun of "your" beliefs then drag into the convo the gays just to keep bumping this thread,draw attention.
You think any attention is good attention.
Not in the case of a site that is only frequented by a handful of people,majority who mock you/Coven.
F@#% off creep.

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 09:54am


Well I checked out the books, " Lords of Chaos,and Lucifer Rising."
I read some of them both off and on today at work,
its in plain " black and white " that Coven are the .. well pretty much the seeds of heavy metal. And I believe it, why would these books lie? and whom ever runs the Coven myspace page, why would they lie? They have no reason to lie, and I agree Lilith, " First IS First. " Nor do facts lie, maybe these guys are sexist or something, who knows. This I will say, you " Sabbath " guys are making this into the whole " Britney vs. Madonna " comparison, which to that I will say, Gimme Coven anyday..I have a Sabbath story and I lost respect for those guys and what Ozzy said to my 12 year old sister, Linda Blair was there that night also, and she was the ONLY person to apoligize to my sister, and it was not HER place to do so. My sister after seeing Black Sabbath, with my parents and myself, She wanted Ozzy's autograph, he told her to "piss off".. after that, he lost his credit as a artist, vocalist to me. So Linda gave her autograph, she had just finished working on The Exorcist, because there were promo shots of her at the after party. And chatted with my sister, to make her feel better. SHE is a human being. With that, it only proved to me that Sabbath were money makers, they didn't care about the fans, they wanted money money money, and they lost the time when money didn't matter, as they claimed that they said, " They only wanted to play music. "

The counter-culture comment also, I would like to say, it was also MY generation, and even though what people were against, we were turned on to it,
But in most cases, how could be fully turned on to it when everything was " edited " it was about getting the point and message out. So how could Coven get that message and point out? they couldn't.

I was lucky enough to get the " Witchcraft " album before it was pulled, for my birthday as I stated, and I remember to the DAY when I heard " White Witch of Rose Hall " it was on a radio station in San Antonio, and every time they played " Wicked Woman" it was followed by " White Witch." Jinx's vocals blew my mind, more powerful than that of Janis or Grace. Being that I also had long blond hair, and that she could pull off wearing black with that beautiful hair of hers, turned me on to dressing the same.

Posted by Carla

Nice informative post.Someone that was there.

You others: Take up any "book" problems with the writers from different countries and different decades.I have read all these books too and they did extensive research for years when Coven was way underground and not trying to promote or sell anything.That is credible to me.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 09:59am


Dearest St.Jimmy, Although I appreciate your "great' efforts thou is "working" here.
It cost money to have thy yacht,make thy payments...
Therefore if anyone would like to purchace an authentic goblin neckerchief,or a Coven spooky back pack they're available at thy Coven gift shoppe for purchase.
Or if one simply wants to help a cherished friend in peril you can send me money via my web page,
($75-$100 preferably).
And thou shall recieve good magick karma personally from myself.
Spook on...

Posted by Jinx Dawson on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 10:05am


That is credible to me. (lilith)

Yes,to "you" and others.
But for it to be the final word as FACT it is not.

Take a guy like Albert Goldman who has written contoversial books published by major book houses on Elvis,The Beatles etc.
He interviwed people that were directly involved,knew them,worked with them.
Yet it's still not acknowledged as accurate information in many instances.
It's not acknowledged by a reputable source in any way.

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 10:12am


I even have MY own song! Do you assholes?



I'm ~ St. Jimmy ~ and I'm OK
I sleep all night and I don't work all day.

Chorus:
He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

I talk about Coven I eat my lunch
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shopping and have buttered scones for tea

Chorus:
He talks about Coven he eat his lunch
He go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he go shopping and has buttered scones for tea.

Chorus:
He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

I talk about Coven I skip and jump
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing and hang around in bars.

Chorus:
He talks about Coven he skips and jumps
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars.

Chorus:
He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

I talk about Coven I wear high heels
Suspendies and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie, just like my dear pappa.

Chorus:
He talks about Coven he wears high heels?
Suspendies...and a bra?

...He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

...He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's/I'm OK
I sleep all night and he/I don't work all day.

~ St. Jimmy ~

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 10:27am


Dude, your obsession with me has got to stop.
And FYI, I asked a few gay people if it was offending, they found it rather funny. and apparenlty you know nothing of gay humor. And last time I checked, it was a lifestyle not a belief. And like I said, The Jinx inpersonator, is quite the " butt end " of some jokes!

And Lilith, I agree, let these Bozo's argue it out with the research that was done with those books, would be quite interesting.

Oh and another FYI, the comment on the books, They have to be researched and have to be accurate information before they are approved, Like Guiness Book. You dont know what you talk about, your not even worth the waste of reading anymore.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 10:33am


Chorus:
He's ~ St. Jimmy ~
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

I'm new to the site but i
Think ^^^^ that about sums up this dude....

Dude,move on

Posted by Gary James CA on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 10:42am


He interviwed people that were directly involved,knew them,worked with them.
Yet it's still not acknowledged as accurate information in many instances.
It's not acknowledged by a reputable source in any way.
Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 10:12am

KEYWORD:Interviewd
Different from Research.. but then again you wouldnt know that... cause your head is up your ass, and cant get over your obsession with me, sorry as I said before, I dont like " boys " And I happen to like my job, Sitting on my ass playing music while talking trash about people like you! where as it seems you have WAY to much free time on your hands.. Oh and for future refrence, we have gotten so along in other threads...WAY before I posted my first Comment in the Coven thread.. show how much you know. St. Jimmy is the name I chose for this one cause like I said, you NEVER know who reads them.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 10:53am


Sitting on my ass playing music while talking trash about people like you (jimmy)

At WYNY,NOT far my my locale.
We shall meet one day,I know who you are.
Your a skinny ass little biatch pussy.
Ever been mugged?

Posted by unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 11:26am


At WNYU,NOT far my my locale.
We shall meet one day,I know who you are.
Your a skinny ass little biatch pussy.
Ever been mugged?

BTW-you don't get paid there,or very minimal I'm sure.
Have no listeners that call in and read the comments from here.
Nothing to do about satanism,being corporate(not anyway) or this shit band.
You need a good ass kicking because your a little pussy who shoots off his mouth ,big on the internet,never thinking someone knows exactly who he is and where to "locate" them if needed.


Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 11:40am


Carla quote: 'My sister after seeing Black Sabbath, with my parents and myself, She wanted Ozzy's autograph, he told her to "piss off".. after that, he lost his credit as a artist, vocalist to me.'

Why would you think that the frontman for a band named 'Black Sabbath' would be nice to a 12 year old fan? Why would you expect him to be? He's just been up there singing incantations to Satan, etc.

Being a moody asshole was part of the gig, IMO.

Posted by Paul in KY on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 11:48am


And with your post.. you get a ROFLAMO, I guess your technology pin pointed me to that station... Damn there is no hiding from you!!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 11:48am


Why would you think that the frontman for a band named 'Black Sabbath' would be nice to a 12 year old fan? Why would you expect him to be? He's just been up there singing incantations to Satan, etc.

Being a moody asshole was part of the gig, IMO.

Posted by Paul in KY

He wouldnt know anything about SATAN if he bit him on the ass.BLACK SABBATH werent even about Satan, OZZY wears a CHRISTIAN CROSS.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:03pm


CORPORATE CHRISTIANS.YOU ARE ALL THE SAME.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:04pm


And with your post.. you get a ROFLAMO, I guess your technology pin pointed me to that station... Damn there is no hiding from you!! (jimmy)

No technology used nor needed in this.
I know who you are,you're just to stupid to figure it out.
It'll be hard to do your podcast with your mouth wired shut.

Keep ROFLAMO next time you might be doing so with blood coming out of you.

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:06pm


Rules of the site:
While we reserve the right to delete any comments, these are the things we’re most likely to target:

… flagrant attacks on other commentators, staffers, or interview / review subjects, particularly aggressive, insulting posts with absolutely no other point to make. Unacceptable: “You’re a dick!” Acceptable: “Only a dick would watch Con Air six times in a row!” Better: “You watched Con Air six times?! You should’ve taken IQ tests before and after to see how it affected you.”

… offensive commentary on interview / review subjects, including but not limited to ad hominem thoughts on how they look, how they might smell, and exactly what you’d like to do to them in the sack. Hate on their work all you want, but attacking them for their appearance is childish, and providing detailed commentary on your sexual reaction to them is, well, icky. If you did that at our party at our house, you wouldn’t be invited back.ETC
Mgmt.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:15pm


Lilith said about Ozzy: 'He wouldnt know anything about SATAN if he bit him on the ass.BLACK SABBATH werent even about Satan, OZZY wears a CHRISTIAN CROSS.'

So that's why they named the band 'Black Sabbath'.

Anyway, wouldn't you agree that the vibe the band gave off (hard rockers wailing out their metal dirges) would sorta clash with being all nicey nice to people asking them for favors?

Posted by Paul in KY on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:24pm


I am far from christian, and any man made religions, not within my upbringing, but those that choose to follow those, more power to them, Got no problem with it, but dont shove it down my throat. If you do, your gonna hear and see some not so nice things bible ripping being one of them.
Ozzy Osbourne was not even satanic, I bet hardly any of you knew that Sabbath did benefits for churches. Why would he be singing incantations to Satan in a Episcopal Church Benefit. 1971 . They did a benefit for a Church in Paramus NJ, and several after that. Guess no one can do the research to see that too.. Cause its not in interviews..Hence why I asked Blah Blah Blah, why would they stop Sabbath.. Nothing to stop them from, they were Church Friendly.

Coven are far from a shit band..And I agree with Carla, Give me Coven anyday.. get lots of airplay when I am on. In fact, a DJ in Belgium, was turned on to them by me.. Close friend of mine, He wants to get them airplay there too. But I have to purchase the CD's and mail them to him. and get clearances. Hell I may just go ahead and purchase them soon, and mail to him, he is really digging them. Or may just give them to him when he comes to the states. I spead the word of Coven on a daily basis. You would be suprised the amout of people that are turning on to them, I send them to the myspace pages, they request to be friends.. Its all about good tunes, and Coven put out great tunes.

I know who you are,you're just to stupid to figure it out.
It'll be hard to do your podcast with your mouth wired shut.

Keep ROFLAMO next time you might be doing so with blood coming out of you.

ROFLAMO umm ok I believe you.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:30pm


Oh this shit is just too funny. Really, stop now, if I laugh anymore, my sides are going to split open.

Ozzy and Sabbath; they were the churches best f'n friend. I love this.

Jimmy, are you really in the NY area? I would love to hear your show.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:46pm


So that's why they named the band 'Black Sabbath'.

Anyway, wouldn't you agree that the vibe the band gave off (hard rockers wailing out their metal dirges) would sorta clash with being all nicey nice to people asking them for favors?

Posted by Paul in KY

The reason Black Sabbath named themselves that is still up for grabs.Somewhere just before 1969 they were called EARTH.But the facts ARE: COVEN released an album in 1969, a year before Sabbath.Sabbath a year later in 1970 was on COVEN's Mercury subsidary label.After the Manson murders, COVEN's album was pulled, due to Christian letter drives. The record co. saw viable occult product interest in COVEN, but they were far to SUBERSIVE.Then all of a sudden a band named after the first song on COVEN'S album, Black Sabbath, appears.Even one of COVEN's members had the name Ozzie Osbourne.COVEN posters were all over England in 1969 promoting their album Witchcraft.

YOU DO THE MATH.

Posted by l on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:50pm



I spead the word of Coven on a daily basis
I'm ~ St. Jimmy ~ and I'm OK
I sleep all night and I don't work all day.

Chorus:
He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

I talk about Coven I eat my lunch
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shopping and have buttered scones for tea

Chorus:
He talks about Coven he eat his lunch
He go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he go shopping and has buttered scones for tea.

Chorus:
He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

I talk about Coven I skip and jump
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing and hang around in bars.

Chorus:
He talks about Coven he skips and jumps
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars.

Chorus:
He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

I talk about Coven I wear high heels
Suspendies and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie, just like my dear pappa.

Chorus:
He talks about Coven he wears high heels?
Suspendies...and a bra?

...He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's OK
He sleeps all night and doesn't work all day.

...He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's/I'm OK
I sleep all night and he/I don't work all day.

~ St. Jimmy ~

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:52pm


AND OZZY was wearing a CHRISTIAN CROSS, very opposite of COVEN's obvious INVERTED CROSSES.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:54pm


Well I guess you want proof..

Well you are IN LUCK there bud!!

Here is a Ticket Stub from the Paramus NJ benefit.. 1971!!

http://i35.tinypic.com/2aabj9w.jpg

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:55pm


Well I guess you want proof..
Well you are IN LUCK there bud!!
Here is a Ticket Stub from the Paramus NJ benefit.. 1971!!

http://i35.tinypic.com/2aabj9w.jpg

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy

Jimmy, that is FABULOUS.I have NEVER SEEN THAT.COVEN WOULD NEVER PLAY FOR A CHURCH SPONSORED ANYTHING.LOVE IT.NOR WOULD THEY BE ASKED TO.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:59pm


Jimmy, are you really in the NY area? I would love to hear your show.
Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 12:46pm

I'm *pretty* sure this dick does.
He looks like a little biatch too.
I live (for real,not trying to be a hard ass near there) what a coincidence.
And I am NOT a little skinny puss,so as you can imagine I'm dying to chat with him on air ,but more so in person.
BTW considering it's the worldwide web Jimmy you have 1-2 - zero comments.
That's alot of listeners! asshole

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:02pm


Thanks Lilith, as I said before I can back my shit up LOL... This is just one of MANY things I am posting in a album on Myspace!!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:05pm


http://i35.tinypic.com/2aabj9w.jpg

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy

I am so LOVING THIS.IT was getting stupid for awhile but now this IS INTERESTING.A little research HAS PISSED THE FANBOYS OFF.

Like I said, YOU MUST BE CORPORATE CHRISTIANS TOO.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:06pm


Lilith, what is a corporate christian? I have never heard the term before.

I swear I am going to miss you guys over the weekend. You caretainly help the slow moments at work go by a little faster.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:09pm


I think that deserves a ALL HAIL BLACK SABBATH THE CHURCH BOYS!!

I can back up everything I say, just wait for the RIGHT opportunites to bring it up


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:11pm


Blah Blah Blah

Corporate Christian is in the example of the Black Sabbath Ticket stubb for the Paramus NJ Benefit, for Churchs.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:13pm


COVEN WOULD NEVER PLAY FOR A CHURCH SPONSORED ANYTHING.LOVE IT.NOR WOULD THEY BE ASKED TO

So ?
Coven = Satanists (of which I could care less about,musically they're very average,Jinx sounds like Ethel Merman which grates on my ears).
Black Sabbtah = Heavy Metal rock,they never had satanic lyrics or claimed to be satanic.
Not a Sab fanatic either,a fan though.

You 2 should hookup, go on a goblin cruise somewhere.
First jimmy has to get some money.
His "podcast" doesn't pay anthing from the university,or if it does not enough to buy "both' of you a happy meal.
There's always his paper route,oh wait he got fired from that!

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:20pm


Lilith, what is a corporate christian? I have never heard the term before.

In answer, the list is TOO LONG FOR HERE, BUT I will name a few.

People who believe all they are fed.People who believe all that Wikipedia says.People who live in McMansions.Musicians whose wives do dumb corporate TV shows.Joel Osteen.Most of the Republican Party.Hell, most of the Democratic Party.Soccor Moms.People who tend to lie. People who will do anything for $$$.People who think they're money is safe in the banks right now.People who are the status quo.People who believe what they see on TV.People who wear dumb caps backwards.People who dont seek knowledge.People who are NOT illuminated nor seek truth.

Need I GO ON.I CAN.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:21pm


Awwww whats the matter, That I humor you and then throw the proof in your face! Well Thats me, and I am FULL of suprises, and here's one for you

IM IN TENNESSEE!!! HAHAHA

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:22pm


Like I said, YOU MUST BE CORPORATE CHRISTIANS TOO.

Reply-
Atheist,UNcorporate.
You two are holding on to this dream that this thread having high numbers is giving this band major attention,it is NOT.
This cite has minimal posters,it's obvious or there would be many more interesting,informative comments made about other bands.
I'm new here but jeez.
Cool,you love this band, you haven't said anything new from when you first started...
Isn't there ANY other bands you would like to give your genius,informed opinion on?
I would expect it from a teenager,but you claim you're not.
So from people that are in their late 30's 40's it's obssesive= crazy fanboy antics.
Why not start a Coven unofficial fanpage the few of you and rant all you want there,you're ruining this cite.



Posted by Gary James CA on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:35pm


Black Sabbtah = Heavy Metal rock,they never had satanic lyrics or claimed to be satanic.

They took on the Image that Coven had, As I said my father worked for Vertigo, and my friend that I mentioned in Belgium, his Father also.. Everyone knew Sabbath had a better chance.. SO they presented the " church friendly " image. But also Sabbath RODE on the Satanic / Occult Image..to make money.. AND it is known that Anton Lavey tried to throw a party for them when they came to America, but the band declined..: Black Sabbath - The Last Supper. But when the Charlie Manson deal happened and Coven's album got pulled, That set Sabbath back.. Then they were on the SAME BILLS as Coven. Hence what I have been saying, Lilith have been saying, Coven were the first, Before Sabbath, Coven Spawned the Sabbath.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:36pm


they never had satanic lyrics,

One more thing before I go.. Quotes from Sabbath Lyrics.

NIB - My name is Lucifer, Please take my hand.

Black Sabbath - This is the end my friend, Satan is comming around the bend....

War Pigs- Satan Laughing spreads his wings

Lord Of this world : You made me master of the world where you exist. The soul I took from you was not even missed..

Need I continue?

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:41pm


Lilith, I have no idea what you look like, but I don't care, I am falling in love with you. Please tell me you are close to the NYC area.

Jimmy, you need a beating, but I will let Unknown take care of that. Jimmy - Tenn.? This just gets better and better.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:56pm


IM IN TENNESSEE!!! HAHAHA (jimmy)

Of "course you are" ha ha ha you've TOTALLY killed that theory.

Lilith, I have no idea what you look like, but I don't care, I am falling in love with you. Please tell me you are close to the NYC area.
Posted by blah-blah-blah

Blah, be careful.
Did you not catch the fact that "lilith" praised "jimmys" ticket pic BEFORE the link actually worked.
Hmm,how could this be.

Sabbath had satanic trappings,lyrics but you just took them out of context which distotrs the "overall' songs meaning which is unsatanic as you yourself previously said.



Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:17pm


Lilith, I have no idea what you look like, but I don't care, I am falling in love with you. Please tell me you are close to the NYC area.
Posted by blah-blah-blah

I actually think you are hot too, and all you guys, you have passion. We need more of that. I love passionate, funny guys. Stay HOT!

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:23pm


Thanks Lilith, as I said before I'm backed up with shit LOL... This is just one of MANY things I am posting in a album on Myspace!!
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 13:05pm

Two words...STOOL SOFTENER
(not so sure if you should post pics though.)

As I said my father worked for Vertigo (jimmy)

You sure your pops didn't off himself having a borderline retard as a son...

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:26pm


I actually think you are hot too, and all you guys, you have passion.
Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:23pm

But Lilith,I,I thought it was you and me against the world?
We were gonna "make a difference"
you know preaching about Coven and all...

Do I not have my own anthem?
...He's ~ St. Jimmy ~ and he's/I'm OK
I sleep all night and he/I don't work all day.

~ St. Jimmy ~

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:38pm


War Pigs- "Satan Laughing spreads his wings"

For starters it's an anti-war song.
Satan is referenced as being responsible,the culprit for creating this.
Looking on,laughing about it.
It is not a pro-satan song.
None of the Sabbath lyrics are,they used satanic imagery at times to comment on the ills of the world.

Posted by Gary James CA on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:48pm


Sabbath had satanic trappings,lyrics but you just took them out of context which distotrs the "overall' songs meaning which is unsatanic as you yourself previously said.

What part of it all do you NOT understand.. Sabbath presented themselfs as a Occult band...
Only thing, The did NOT WEAR inverted crosses,
They were Church Friendly, did MANY benefits for Churches, but yet sang about Satan. COME ON IT DONT TAKE A ROCKET SCIENIEST TO FIGURE IT OUT.. it was their GIMMICK to make money, the IMAGE they took from COVEN from their sub Label Vertigo.. DID you even KNOW that on Ozzys' Speak of the Devil tour Japan DVD, he does the Inverted cross during Iron Man? Probably not, guess you want a Link to that too to see for yourself. SO we will see who takes what out of context. I am through with you, keep on believing those " interviews = Lies " .


And well you kinda threw that theory out the window, DUH her comment was POSTED 2 minutes after I posted the link to the stub.

Yet again see for youself,

Ozzy - Iron Man 1982 - Speak of the Devil Tour.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0PrzNpUmuo

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:53pm


For starters it's an anti-war song.
Satan is referenced as being responsible,the culprit for creating this.
Looking on,laughing about it.
It is not a pro-satan song.
None of the Sabbath lyrics are,they used satanic imagery at times to comment on the ills of the world.

BUT THEY WERE NOT SATANIC, IF they used the Satanic Imagery, CHURCHES would NOT ask them for Benefits.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:55pm


And well you kinda threw that theory out the window, DUH her comment was POSTED 2 minutes after I posted the link to the stub. (jimmy)

The SECOND link you provided,the first did not display,isn't that why you reposted it ass?
How could anybody comment on something that didn't display before seeing it here.

Agreed, Sabbath were not satanic, never argued they were.
I never argued they did the whole thing first,on a large scale they influenced many more bands was my comment.
A church needs funds,if a rock concert is going to attract PAYING ticket holders they'll take it where they can get it.

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:07pm


And well you kinda threw that theory out the window (jimmy)

Adopting borderline retard voice jimmy has:
That's plagirism!!!

Didn't I just say the same EXACT thing to you about you being in Tenn.

Can you at least word it a "little" differntly.
How many times you have taken others exact phrasing and posted as YOUR own.
Then (here's the kicker) Jimmy turns around and cries about plagirism!

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:12pm


Umm NO Lilith posted the second link. Not I unless YOU posted something under my name as YOU have been doing all DAY. AS it says, Scroll back up and look

Well I guess you want proof..
Well you are IN LUCK there bud!!
Here is a Ticket Stub from the Paramus NJ benefit.. 1971!!

http://i35.tinypic.com/2aabj9w.jpg

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy

Jimmy, that is FABULOUS.I have NEVER SEEN THAT.COVEN WOULD NEVER PLAY FOR A CHURCH SPONSORED ANYTHING.LOVE IT.NOR WOULD THEY BE ASKED TO.


Agreed, Sabbath were not satanic, never argued they were.
I never argued they did the whole thing first,on a large scale they influenced many more bands was my comment.
A church needs funds,if a rock concert is going to attract PAYING ticket holders they'll take it where they can get it.
Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:07pm

Why did they persue the Occult Image? Why the Occult tones in lyrics?
And Doing Church Benefits? that throws that out the window also. Sabbath had a IMAGE that they needed to sell.. and people bought it, again not dissing Sabbath cause I am a fan.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:14pm


Jimmy there's MANY on here who have been f@#%ing with you,not just me.
So cool out with the accusations,it wasn't ALL me.

Sabbath had a IMAGE that they needed to sell.. and people bought it, again not dissing Sabbath cause I am a fan. (jimmy)

Agreed,"But" if the people who ran the church functions there were briefed "don't worry it's ONLY an act" before hand.
They most likely would go it (as they obvioisly did),they need to raise money via rock concerts,auctions ,bake sales etc

Why did they persue the Occult Image? Why the Occult tones in lyrics? (jimmy)

Well when you name your band "Black Sabbath" (taken from the old Boris Karloff HORROR flick mind you)I suspect you'd be singing dark subject matter as oppossed to chocolate rainbows.

Posted by Unknown on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:32pm


The early Sabbath shows much like any Sabbath show, was nothing satanic to it.. Yes they supposidly took the name from the picture Black Sabbath..And they CLAIMED a occult image, Geezer Butler stated that, but their songs were " Anti Satanic ". And even if they were briefed, they would NOT go for it.. Sabbath took the Image, rode it out to make money. They did have Satanic Bands opening for them, Coven, Black Widow.. are just to name a few, WHY would you take on a GIMMICK to make money, its being a hypocrite. I mean come on do you see churches Inviting Marilyn Manson in for a benefit? and he is very satanic...

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:40pm


Wow - I see you all had a busy day.

And I see the great and powerful Oz did a little magic of his own. Very nice.

First off - Blah - I met Lilith first, so back off! Lilith, I adore you. I love that Corporate Christian thing. For years my family used to make novenas in my name because I used to challenge their teachings about God. And here I learn that I am now considered corporate because I really enjoy money and a few other materialistic items, I wear my hat backwards every now and then and I could care less about truth because what is one persons truth is anothers fallacy. Sweet. Lilith, would you be offended if I purchased a couple of dozen roses for you with the money I worked hard for? I hope not :-)

Second, I think this conversation has gone way off base. It started with Matt and a couple of others stating that Coven should be inducted for their influence on Metal. Jimmy chimed in that Sabbath was influenced by Coven which really got everyone going. Jimmy's point is that Coven used Satanic or demonic symbols first, including the horn sign and inverted cross. I don't know for sure if that is all true, but I will give Jimmy the benefit of the doubt, but that does not mean that Sabbath or anyone else was influenced by Coven. The reason for this is that Coven did not invent these symbols. They have been out there for centuries for anyone to use as they wish. Coven was not innovative with anything. They are not the first to even mention Satan or witches or Lucifer in their lyrics. They may have stuck to that theme more so than anyone, but they were not the first. As I mentioned last night, the Stones referred to Lucifer before Coven ever released a song and I don't care what context it was used in. It was used. And I am sure the devil was mentioned a few times in the old blues songs. Let's face it, he/she is a great story line. Sabbath had a dark image because that was the environment they grew up in. Not to mention that they were not big fans of the hippie scene. Was it marketing; could very well be. If it was, good job because it worked. Not to mention that the sound of Sabbath's music was noweher near what Coven sounded like. It would not have been possible because of the way Iommi tuned his guitar due to his accident.

The end result is that more kids in the late 60's, early 70's picked up the guitar because of Black Sabbath. And a lot of those kids became major stars and artists years later. After Smoke on the Water, Iron Man was the second song I learned to play on the guitar. There may have been a handful of kids who picked up the guitar because of Coven, but I would bet there influence may have been stronger in those lost kids who were looking for answers in a different place. Famous bands and artists cite Sabbath (Metallica, Anthrax, White Zombie, Motley Crue, etc., etc.) So far, I have only read that someone named Filth cites Coven which is fine. I am sure there are more artists in the genre specific "Doom Metal" that may cite Coven. But it is just not enough to get them inducted into the HoF. And that is what this site is about; the Hall of Fame (Shame).

Have a good weekend everyone, you too Jimmy.

And Lilith, Ciao bella!

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:50pm


King Diamond cites COVEN.I'll get back to you on more.Busy doing something else HOT right now.

Bloody kisses to YOU.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 16:02pm


Tease!!!!!!!!!! Heartbreaker!!!!!!!!!!!

yes, I know of King Diamond.

But what type of influence; music or image

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 16:19pm


OK I finished with my HOT afternoon.Had to take a nude swim with several friends.

Cited as quotes from King Diamond in several books and by Jinx herself at her official sites, King was the only one who was gentleman enough to contact her and ask if he could take direct material off COVEN's Black Mass and several lyrics on COVEN songs for 2 of his albums. And said he was influenced by the image.

And it is Dani Filth from Cradle of Filth, writing about COVEN as an influence in his new book.

See you all in my dreams tonight.Love Diamond Lil.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 18:49pm


Legend has it that Robert Johnson met a certain "someone" at the "crossroads" and sold his soul...that was REALLY a long time ago!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 18:54pm


Lilith My Love

It is just not enough to be inducted into this Hall of Shame.

You realize that Jimmy is going to be upset by all this teasing.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 23:41pm


Just for fun, I looked up Coven in one of Joel Whitburn's books. For Coven, we have the following description:

"Pop group: Jinx Dawson (female vocals), Oz (male vocals), Christopher Nelson (guitar), John Hobbs (guitar) and Steve Ross (drums)."


You read right.... Pop group.

lawlz

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 00:03am


First off, rock IS a genre of Pop Music (Popular Music)generally listed in record stores, etc., not classical, jazz, etc. ( The Beatles, Stones are listed under Pop Groups)

And the author, unless you have tons of typos here, HAS NOT CORRECT info listed ANYWAY.

Ozzie Osborne NEVER sang one note
Chris Neilsen SANG
John Hobbs played keyboards, not guitar

This listing probably comes from the old movie title song Jinx sang on and made a hit.What book did this come from, some GENERIC listing of music groups?

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 08:17am


Dameon,
Not being a smart ass here when I re post what I said about Jeff Beck. "Beck has not been able to establish and maintain a broad following or the sustained commercial success of many of his collaborators and bandmates." And this is where Lilith quoted me and said that THIS is the same as it was with Coven. They had a Huge following of Musicians.. From then to today. King Diamond ( which he is a real gentleman, met him last yr ) Was about one of the FEW that actually " Borrowed " from Coven with their premission. With him wanting to use those lyrics, thats influence. He was influenced by what the photo represented. Dani Filth also of Cradle of Filth writing them as influence, Coven had more influence than it is know. It's a shame that they were never given the due credit, but thats because some people dont like to talk about it, because it takes away from their status of originality. I am pretty sure that Lilith will probably agree with me too.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 09:11am


Here's another interview with Dawson,again it mentions she was struggling with her career.

http://www.franklincollege.edu/pwp/JMiller/lschap8.html

This doesn't sound very satanic/goth to me:

" And she did her last live performance at a 1991 tribute to Sammy Davis Jr. in Vegas, performing "One Tin Soldier" for the brightest lights of Tinseltown."

Taken VERBATUM from interview uptop.

She'll go with ANYTHING that comes her way at this point,if all of a sudden she got called to perform One Tin Soldier she'd be there.
Now this hand horn sign/satanic lyrics thing she's pushing ,hoping desperatley to garner attention.

I also read Coven rerecoded One Tin Soldier back in the 70's that was relesed as a single aside from the orig. sol version she had that was the hit.

Posted by Randy on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 09:46am


Did you READ it all?
Jinx was ASKED to preform, and she was HONORED.
and you did know that Sammy Davis jr also had a honorary Warlock degree also, from the Church of Satan.

And why do you CONSTANTLY bring up her situation that you KNOW nothing about NOW..Not then NOW... I dont even know about it now.. But It does look she is doing well for herself.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 10:00am


And why do you CONSTANTLY bring up her situation that you KNOW nothing about NOW..Not then NOW... I dont even know about it now.. But It does look she is doing well for herself.

It's relevant to the convo as a whole.
She abadoned the whole satanic thing,attempted other styles of music,basically whatever was happening at the time i.e. new wave etc.
You keep giving the argument that she's so true to the satanic crap,she had (by her own admission ) many failed attemps and now she's gone full circle (because it's the biggest thing she can trade off off) with the satanic bunk.
Also she seems comfortable talking about it,it bothers you more then her it seems.
A sheriff's sale is when they come and take your property.
This is BAD.
A sheriff's sale doesn't entail them selling it for you.
They are sellling it for them,you get zilch.
Yes,I know Sammy Davis Jr. was a part of The Church Of The New Process,as were many name actors from that era,it was a scene,event to be part of.
Most weren't serious about it.
Jimmy,all this satanic band convo got me thinking (unrelated to Coven)
Did you ever hear the early 70's group White Witch?
I have their first album that cameout on Capricorn records,it's okay,rather patchy but it has it's moments.

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 10:53am


This doesn't sound very satanic/goth to me:

" And she did her last live performance at a 1991 tribute to Sammy Davis Jr. in Vegas, performing "One Tin Soldier" for the brightest lights of Tinseltown."

Posted by Randy

Again, you guys jump the gun trying to find any discredit in Jinx. St. Jimmy is correct.If you research, Sammy Davis was a very good friend to her and Sammy WAS a MEMBER of THE CHURCH of SATAN. Sammy always liked "One Tin Soldier" because the lyrics made reference to hypocritical CHRISTIANS.


A sheriff's sale is when they come and take your property.
This is BAD.


Posted by Unknown

This issue was ALREADY ADDRESSED ABOVE. Due to her father dying recently, HIS house was sold as part of his estate.

WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH HER MUSIC?

PLEASE Research BEFORE YOU POST.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 11:27am


She abandoned the whole satanic thing,attempted other styles of music,basically whatever was happening at the time i.e. new wave etc.

Posted by Unknown

AND AGAIN if you do your research, Jinx and COVEN were going through legal battles over the use of her name and music when she did her Punk/New Wave stint. AND was still being censored. She had to hide her identity and her hair under a motorcycle hat just to play. She likes many kinds of music and the stuff they played then was very dark punk.They never wanted to do an album then - Just play for the enjoyment.Friends like Glenn Cornick of Jethro Tull and Michael Monarch of Steppenwolf and Tommy Bolin used to go out and jam to keep there chops up and for FUN.

WHAT is WITH YOU GUYS. YOU SEEM as though you do NOT UNDERSTAND MUSICIANS AT ALL.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 11:37am


WHAT THE HELL DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH HER MUSIC?

PLEASE Research BEFORE YOU POST.
Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 11:27am

My research always reveals that same info.that's why.
I have read ahell of af alot of music mag.music papers in my time.
One thing I can honestly say is that I seldom if at all read those type comments (about money troubles etc).
It's not a mockery,BTW you said look at todays financial troubles in another post,Dawson's probs predated what's currently going on by MANY years,so you can't give the excuse of what's going on NOW.
It is relevent as a counterpoint to the argument because taking her "career" as a whole and what she's currently trying too tade off of makes her look like an oppurtunist as opposed to someone who stayed true to their "beliefs".
It doesn't matter why it happened,it HAPPENED.
BTW almost everything you have said is regurgitated piffle.
You said the SAME EXACT points many times yourself.
Move on...

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 11:47am


Dawson's probs predated what's currently going on by MANY years,so you can't give the excuse of what's going on NOW.

Posted by Unknown

EXCUSE ME, her Dad died recently. His house was sold LAST DECEMBER.

This personal bashing has got to STOP. COVEN had the most iconic Satanic Metal/ Goth/BlackMETAL/ DOOM METAL, WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT (AS THERE WAS no genre name to call it at the time because THEY were first), album in HISTORY.The very first of its kind which is now copied in parts by thousands of bands. They had the first recorded Black Mass in history, the first photographs on an album of a REAL MAGICK CEREMONY (and maybe to this day the ONLY real ones).The first album with all songs about the occult.

If you do not like them fine, but HISTORY IS HISTORY and it should be EMBRACED.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 11:51am


10, 20 or how ever many so years ago dont matter anymore, this is 2008 about to be 2009.

"I have read ahell of af alot of music mag.music papers in my time."

But have you RESEARCHED anything, Interviews, articles and such are great for reading, Research goes deeper. Research reveals a lot of things you may have never known. Interviews do not qualify as " Research " anyone can say that they oh slept with 12,000 and people would believe it because they ( the person being interviewed ) said its so.


You said the SAME EXACT points many times yourself.

Well, Yea the points dont seem to be registering.

Jinx Dawson has always stayed true to her beliefs, she has never ONCE sold out to " Corporate "
quote from Lilith -"They never wanted to do an album then - Just play for the enjoyment."
That tells you they were NOT selling out.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:02pm


COVEN COULD NOT DO NEW ALBUMS during MANY years anyway, THEY WERE in constant legal battles with RECORD Co.'s AND their CONTRACTs where THE RECORD CO.'s ALWAYS WANTED THEM TO RECORD MORE MOR (Middle of the Road, for you initiates) RADIO MATERIAL.THEY DID NOT WANT TO DO THAT.THEY DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO DO THE eventual"KISS" Record DEAL BEFORE KISS was put together EITHER.They thought it too fake.

I understand a lot of this info has been buried and underground. BUT THE INFO IS OUT THERE.

I'll leave you hot boys now to battle it out. XXX Diamond Lil

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:20pm


Well, Yea the points dont seem to be registering.

Jinx Dawson has always stayed true to her beliefs, she has never ONCE sold out to " Corporate "
quote from Lilith -"They never wanted to do an album then - Just play for the enjoyment."
That tells you they were NOT selling out. (jimmy)

They have with me,I can't speak for all the others.
I don't dipute what they did early on,never have.
If you don't agree with you that the actual "music" itself holds up here assumptions get "made" you're corporate,christian,a straight,don't know anything about music,hell at one point you even accused me of being gay.
No to all of the above.
As for the gay thing...
It really is really lame to offend someone who is,might be.
It like saying I don't like you because you don't like me/Coven therefore what can I call you that I percieve as an an insult,something that's "bad"
Oh! I know you're "gay".
Not cool,as I said I am not but that's a cheap shot towards the gays who aren't relevant in this convo.

But have you RESEARCHED anything, Interviews, articles and such are great for reading, Research goes deeper. Research reveals a lot of things you may have never known.(jimmy)

Jim, First off you yourself said this was a "hard" band too research,so taking that into consideration,and what's "readily" available online yes I have.
Also would like too point out that if a subject is THAT hard too research it's not very known,acknowledged in a BIG way then.
I don't nor ever have believed everything I read.
But using Dawson's interviews as source Ithink that should be enough.
Not to mention all my encyclopedias of rock,Rock Almanac, many vintage mags. I have ammaased.
and on.
Besides why isn't a mag. article written by a respected journalist not worthy?
That contradicts your previous "fact" that everything that goes into print has fact checkers (those of us know better though).


Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:24pm


Did you ever hear the early 70's group White Witch?
I have their first album that cameout on Capricorn records,it's okay,rather patchy but it has it's moments.

Yes I have that album also, it rakes my nerves, lol.. not a fan of it. I can tolerate it to a extent thats about it.. why do you ask?

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:30pm


That tells you they were NOT selling out.
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~


What tells you they weren't selling out?
In her interview I just posted she sounds like she'd take pretty much anything at that point in her career.
The problem was in HER words "the phone isn't ringing".
BTW you ARE aware that MANY known/unknown musicians have overcome MUCH more then Dawson.
MAJOR drug addiction,ilness,financial woes.
She is NOT exclusive to what life throws your way.
Jazz guitarist to a stray bullett to his head while he was an established artist/sessionman and had to re learn how too talk,play everything.
You'll give EVERY excuse in the books as to why this band didn't ride out the success of One Tin Soldier.
A I guess it's a "romantic notion" that they were satanic and all.
Bottomline A record company smells money and they can capitalise on a trend they will.
Coven should of reemerged in a BIG way when /while Sabbath and their ilk i.e. Black Widow were doing it.
Hell,I know of MANY bands that released their music on their OWN label just too keep it out there and the love of it.
Why didn't they do that.
Answer:
No demand on a large scale that they would profit,recoup their initial investment etc.

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:40pm


One more thing.
An act like G.G. Allin was much more "scandelous" then Coven ever could wish for.
Not a fan myself but...
He'd piss,shit on stage,throw his feces at the audience,smear it all over himself.
Do all kinds of what I percieve as sick ,but you may view as otherwise.
Continued performing (at decent sized venues too),releasing cds until his death

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:47pm


Yes I have that album also, it rakes my nerves, lol.. not a fan of it. I can tolerate it to a extent thats about it.. why do you ask?

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:30pm

As a peace offering because you and I aren't all that different in we are passionate about music.

K, Vertigo man how about (NO Googling)?
May Blitz
Warhorse
Affinity
Patto

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:57pm


How am I to know who is who under the " unknown " name?
And I checked with a few gay people at work and they thought it was funny.. they didnt see any offence to it. To me, it seems that, No one wants to accepts facts..That they were sold the story of Black Sabbath being responsible for HEAVY METAL.. and its not true, Sure Sabbath soared, But the seeds were planted in with Coven, It was They who brought Heavy Metal, which branches off into various branches, but all and all in the end, its one genre. Like I said, I can humor you all, but in the end I can prove what I am pointing out. As I did with the Black Sabbath ticket.

I never Said I dont like anyone who dont like Coven.

A while back there was a site that I posted, its called Rock's back Pages.. it costs a membership fee to browse everything and all that is on that site.. its well worth checking out.. great place to start.. the mentioned books are great too.. they are researched from top to bottom.. as it would be with G. Book of records. If they see that its not accurate, or true, you dont get in. Some of the information, you could locate through people that worked at Mercury and such.. contact through email ect ect, Which would be probably unlikely because I read, or maybe I was told, I know that it came down to this, " Coven's master tapes were destroyed in a Occult fire.. As I said, I dont remember if I was told or read it, because I didnt write that source down. Like I said, I had somewhat of a advantage, being that my father worked for Vertigo in the early 70's.. yes he was a resident of the states, but most of his time was spent in Belgium, and England. On the Coven myspace page, Lester Bangs article is there, showing that Coven came before Sabbath, and that Sabbath were England's answer to Coven.

"Besides why isn't a mag. article written by a respected journalist not worthy?
That contradicts your previous "fact" that everything that goes into print has fact checkers (those of us know better though). "

Interviews are good as I said.. but I mean if someone ( the one being interviewed - who is, lets say a very Famous and well known actor / musician ) said, I slept with 12,000 women in my life time,
even that well known respected journalist, nor their fact checkers, are going to sit down and look up all 12,000. They have deadlines, money to be made. Loss of time = Loss of money in the pocket.

Lester Bangs, I NEVER liked anything the man wrote, other than him proving that Coven came first.. but not in nice terms, He wasnt a writer, he wouldnt know decent music if it " bit him in the ass." He didnt know anything about rock and roll and the artists and musicians, that had a message to get out, it all was " claptrap " with him.

Like I said, start with Rocks Back Pages, and those books, mentioned, trust me you will learn A LOT, and when Dani Filths books comes out, ( I cant wait to read ) its going to be very intersting. Its titled " The Gospel Of Filth. " Dani is a well known artist in the modern heavy metal scene, that is well rounded and respected.

Posted by ~ St Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:57pm


No Googling :o)
I have May Blitz,
Warhorse,
Patto...

Oh did you know that Tony Iommi had a side project circa the Sabbath Bloody Sabbath album, was a flop, but another interesting thing that I came across researching

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:59pm


Lester Bangs, I NEVER liked anything the man wrote, other than him proving that Coven came first.. but not in nice terms, He wasnt a writer, he wouldnt know decent music if it " bit him in the ass." He didnt know anything about rock and roll and the artists and musicians, that had a message to get out, it all was " claptrap " with him.Posted by ~ St Jimmy

Jim, In all honesty, this ^^^^^ comment you quoted wasn't made by myself.
Who?
No idea NOT me.
But I'm in agreement about Lester Bangs.
I know this is the internet,and anyone can say anything.
But I myself saved EVERY rock mag.and everything related from when I first got into music at the age of 9.
Which if you're telling the truth around the same age.
I was (and still) such a FANATIC about that I even saved the newspapers adverts from the Sun. paper theat was advertising then new releases on sale.
Pink Floyd -Dark Side Of The Moon $2.99 those kind of things.
I mention this because you're not the only one here that knows what the'yre talking about.
We can debate ,have fun talking music ,please just see a little grey area at times with people who debate your views.

As for the gay thing we'll leave it alone.
As mentioned I myself am not,but it can be taken the wrong way and inadvertantly insult hurt someone innocent skimming the site.

Mojo did a great feature on the occult in rock music in issue 70September 1999 I have.
No mention of Coven,but you might like to check it out just the same.
Really good feature actually.

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 13:12pm


Oh did you know that Tony Iommi had a side project circa the Sabbath Bloody Sabbath album, was a flop, but another interesting thing that I came across researching
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:59pm

Hmm,not sure which project you speak of.
The rarest thing I own pertaining Sabbath is a live boot of "Earth" which of course was Sabbath.
And of course the first release on Vertigo was one of my fave bands Colosseum.
Vertigo is one of my favorite labels.
I find most of the music they released is to my taste.
Beggar's Opera were so-so.
I bought the Vertigo Time Machine boxset awhile ago,good stuff.

I have milk crates full of old Kerrangs! from the 80's and I have the one where David Donato joined as their new singer.
He didn't last,record with them.
It says in the "Armageddon"cd reissue liner notes he was also in Captain Beyond pre Sabbath,again never recorded with them.

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 13:23pm


Terrorizer did also, its a full spread of Coven in Novemeber of last yr. Its at the Coven myspace also.

Yea I am aware of G.G. I met him when I actually got to live with my dad in NYC at the Limelight back in the " Club Kid " hey days. Nasty. Dont like him. There was another one, I Can not remember his name, that was A LOT worse than G.G. one of the club kids that I am friends with, even to this day, took me to see them, I dont remember his name, I just remember the next day he was on Geraldo, or maybe it was springer, but he wore a hooded mask. kinda like the kkk members.. I left my friend and went home, I was HORRIFIED at what was going on.

BTW the Tony side project was " Necromandus " I have the LP if your into sabbath hardcore, its worth a listen.

I also have tons of articles and such. England, Belgium, Germany, are just to name a few, and as soon as my friend comes over to the states from Belgium, hes going to translate them for me lol..

but on that note I have to go.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 13:24pm


BTW the Tony side project was " Necromandus " I have the LP if your into sabbath hardcore, its worth a listen.
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 13:24pm

K, I have heard of that,never actually "heard it though.

"the Limelight back in the " Club Kid "

LOL I still have my "Communion" Permanent Pass Card from there.

The G.G. Allin scene never appealed to me,or anything close to it.

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 14:33pm


It says in the "Armageddon"cd reissue liner notes he was also in Captain Beyond pre Sabbath,again never recorded with them.
Posted by Unknown on Saturday

To edit myself I meant David Donato was in "Armegeddon" not Captain Beyond.
Easy mistake to make as both are related and drummer Bobby Caldwell was in both back and forth.

Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 14:38pm


Yea you hadda love RnR Church lol.
Loved the Limelight, Sadly though we ( Those that were in and around that scene ) knew what killed it. Great Bands preformed there, Met Yoko and Sean Lennon on one of the nights Pearl Jam preformed there. I still have my Limelight tee, tons of Flyers, ( mainly Disco 2000, some Communion ) and my Limelight VIP pass, Peter Gation was a great man, his club in Canada is very successful. Even though I lived there for a short time, Met some great people that I am still close with even after 12 yrs, AKA the Club Kid Kaboom.. ( I think you know what I am talking about )..

And honestly on the comment of the " grey area " I do look at if from that, believe it or not, but when you research it, you see different..


Bottomline A record company smells money and they can capitalise on a trend they will.
Coven should of reemerged in a BIG way when /while Sabbath and their ilk i.e. Black Widow were doing it.

How could they? Their album was pulled, couldnt get gigs ect.. they were in constant battles with them.. I even posted in a way previous post when Jinx won a award for One Tin Soldier, on Dick Clark's Touch of Gold, and from my understanding, the award was taken away from her, never to be seen again.
But go back to when the album was pulled.. Mercury's sub label already had a successful money maker.. Black Sabbath... they were making money out the yin yang.. With the record companies .. might as well say, pretty much against them.. they stood no chance really.. From my understanding, it was CONSTANT battles with the company and management... As I said, they had their money maker, and with that HOW could they emerge... they couldnt.

With Jinx doing The Eq's.
Even though she pretty much went into hiding so they could preform.. do what they love to do.. Play Music..Thats true musicianship.. to do that.. even if it wasnt the dark arts theme, she couldnt do it, Mind you this is in my opinion, I could be wrong, but with her doing the dark art themes with the Eq's.. They might have realized it was Jinx Dawson, and if they did, then more legal battles would have probably started again.. And New Wave was pretty much the " IN " sound at that time .. and thats not selling out, by any means.. its Getting up there and doing what you love to do... but then again, that is my opinion on the Eq's I could be wrong. All musicians go through various sounds, like I am going to use Marilyn Manson again as a example.. His first album, Meh give or take it was metal.. Second was experemental.. with Antichrist Superstar.. he unleased .. all I can say is WOW apon us.. that album to me is his best.. Then came Mechanical Animals, which is Glam to the fullest.. and you can hear Bowie's " Fame " in Manson's " I don't Like the Drugs, but the drugs like me. " then on his later albums he pretty much went back to the Anti Christ Superstar concept and sound.. except for the last album.. not a fan of lol..
Its all about Growing as a artist and musician.. and to do this, you have to go through various sounds and concepts to get that growth.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 15:46pm


Here is an off the wall current influence.

Necro, the horror/ gore rap artist from NY had ripped off most of one of Coven's songs Jinx wrote for one of his CD's without crediting Jinx/COVEN.He also said he got his gore/horror rap idea from COVEN's WITCHCRAFT album that the song was on.

She was mad at all the rips of her material and the many bootlegs of her stuff that was out there.Plus there were/are several other bands even using the "COVEN" name illegally.

ONLY THEN did she START a myspace internet PRESENCE.She doesn't care about "Cashing in" as you say. It is all about the constant taking of her work. How can she "Cash in" on something she started and should have been compensated for IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Posted by lilith on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 16:41pm


You guys are still going at it? Oh well, enjoy.

Lilith my love, have a pleasant weekend.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 17:25pm


"This listing probably comes from the old movie title song Jinx sang on and made a hit.What book did this come from, some GENERIC listing of music groups?"--lilith

I mentioned the author of the book where I got that listing. If you have no clue who Joel Whitburn is, more's the pity.

Hint: his books can be found at http://www.recordresearch.com

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 00:59am


I am aware of Joel Whitburn.
But his information of Coven is Incorrect.
Unless you have typo's,
What book is this from?
When I checked the site, there was NO mention of Coven on it. That in its self is false information.

When I quoted the Sabbath Lyrics, since a " Unknown " said they didnt have satanic lyrics, I forgot to mention Walpurgis Nacht..Changed into "War Pigs"..
The original Lyrics to " War Pigs " are very satanic and have nothing to do with the " Anti War " song. Ozzy even sang some of the ORIGINAL lyrics as seen and heard all through thier 1970 tour, there was a Live in Paris 1970 CD and DVD out there in circulation, I was lucky enough to pick it up. It was put out through Castle records, that remastered Sabbaths Catalog.

Lyrics that go:
"On the scene a priest appears
Sinners falling at his knees
Satan sends out funeral pyre
Casts the priest into the fire"

and
"Carry banners which denounce the lord
See me rocking in my grave
See them anoint my head with dead rat's blood
See them stick the stake through me
Oh"
This is prefect example of why the lyrics were changed, From the original to the " anti war " song. cause less than a year later they were doing church benefits.

This version, I quoted came from the Basement Tape s that Ozzy released on his Ozzman Commeth c.d. The song Black Sabbath itself has a Extra set of lyrics also.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 03:30am


It says in the "Armageddon"cd reissue liner notes he was also in Captain Beyond pre Sabbath,again never recorded with them.
Posted by Unknown on Saturday

To edit myself I meant David Donato was in "Armegeddon" not Captain Beyond.
Easy mistake to make as both are related and drummer Bobby Caldwell was in both back and forth.
Posted by Unknown on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 14:38pm

I have both the albums, love both of them..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 05:06am


I have both the albums, love both of them..
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

Very cool,I love collecting all the various offshoots from obscure bands too.
So in the case of Captain Beyond the singer Willy Dafern who sang on their last album "Dawn Explosion" his band pre Captain Beyond was a band called "Hunger" I have their album "Strictly From Hunger" from 1968,it's okay nothing to write home about imo.
I also have a nice Captain Beyond (orig. band+ Willy Daffern 1977 era) live 2 cd boot of 4 different concerts they did.
One was before the great S/T debut was released,but that material.
Rhino/Lee Dorman of course were in Iron Butterfly for the one album,their best imo. "Metamorphosis"which is kinda patchy in places.
There's another obscure Capt. Beyond spinoff band that cut one album only "Pipedream" that had Willy Dafern,Tim Bogert in it.
The weirdest thing I have that's cool Capt.Beyond related is "A Thousand Days Of Yesterdays- A Tribute To Captain Beyond".
It's all bands mainly swedish replicating the S/T debut,giving their own take on the music.
A few names such as Brian Robertson (ex Thin Lizzy etc) performs "Mesmerization Eclipse" and Nik Turner (ex Hawkwind)is on a "Thousand Days Of Yesterdays".
An interesting curio all in all cameout 1999.
A few bonus tracks with the lyrics sung in swedish keeps things interesting.
BTW-
Ya know what band I thought was going to be heavy and although not bad but not real heavy "Lucifer's Friend".

Posted by Unknown on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 15:45pm


Nice collection!.. Hawkwind is one of my FAVS..

Ah yea Lucifer's friend... pre uriah heep. I do like Lucifer's friend. I actually think I like Lucifer's Friend even a lil more that Uriah.. or a close Tie.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 16:39pm


Nice collection!.. Hawkwind is one of my FAVS..
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

Thanks Jim,see I knew being you knew Ellias Hulk you couldn't be all bad.lol

You might even remember the N.Y.C. record store I bought my Captain Beyond live boot from "Midnight Records".

Hawkwind is one of those groups I always liked selected things,but lately find I've been rediscovering and enjoying.
Robert Calvert,the guy was a real talant as a poet ,lyricist imo.
I particularly like Hawkwind's "Steppenwolf" lyrics penned by him.
Have you heard his Captain Lockheed & The Starfighters ,Luck Lief And The Longships albums?
If not I think you might like em.
I do.
Uriah Heep I have a very large collection of.
Fave era is the Dave Byron era.
Although on the live front their current singer who's been with them for a really long time Bernie Shaw does a great job.
Saw them in Trenton a few yrs ago and they werre good.
Lee Kerslake had to retire from the band,health issues.
Pre Heep bands Hensley was in are decent too: Head Machine,Toe Fat,The Gods

Posted by Unknown on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 17:31pm


It is good to see people overcome their differences and have good conversation.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 17:32pm


BTW Jeff Fenholt was working with Armageddon for a second album back then that never materialised.
Source: "Armageddon" Repertoire cd reissue.
In an old Kerrang!from the 80's it has the David Danato/Sabbath feature were Donato (remember him he wore a door knocker as a belt buckle) mentions he was working with Armageddon pre Sabbath.
Hard to keep track of people who never recorded,went on to high profile things @ times.

Posted by Unknown on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 17:39pm


"I am aware of Joel Whitburn.
But his information of Coven is Incorrect.
Unless you have typo's,
What book is this from?
When I checked the site, there was NO mention of Coven on it. That in its self is false information."--St. Jimmy

No Jimmy, it is not false information. It seems you are aware of him, but don't realize who he is. That's fine. He's the man who kept/keeps track of all the Billboard listings and lists chart information... every song to appear in a Billboard chart will be listed in his books. Same with every album. On top of that, he has the largest personal record collection in the world. Every hit of the rock era, and I believe the same for every hit album. In his books, he has mini-bios of most every artist. And he does differentiate between "Pop" and "Rock" and "Heavy Rock," etc. The bit on Coven I gave you is from the latest edition of his "Top Pop Singles." In this case it spans 1955-2006.

Granted, there's an obvious bias in it: the more hits, the longer the bio (unless that artist was a megastar in another set of charts, like R&B, C&W, etc). Since Coven only had one Hot 100 hit (the same one twice, that is) their bio isn't very thorough. But I thought it was funny that their listed as a "Pop" group, and admittedly, I thought it would be fun to throw a little gas in the fire. Arguably the foremost authority on pop music history, with THE largest record collection worldwide, and he dares to call Coven a "Pop group." That's just funny for one reason or another. Lilith responded as I hoped, and I got a cheap laugh. I guess I gave her another reason to... go ahead and hate her neighbor!! lol.

So yeah, I trolled. We're not perfect.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 02:02am


Here is an off the wall current influence.

Necro, the horror/ gore rap artist from NY had ripped off most of one of Coven's songs Jinx wrote for one of his CD's without crediting Jinx/COVEN.He also said he got his gore/horror rap idea from COVEN's WITCHCRAFT album that the song was on.

ME: My words on that, I can not STAND rap, with that sampling he "took" from " Portrait ".. He disgraced Coven.. It was HORRIBLE. I have actual words that I would like to say, but dont think that this site would like that LOL so I am pretty much going to sum it up with Horrible.

Thanks Jim,see I knew being you knew Ellias Hulk you couldn't be all bad.lol

ME: Do you have Weed? The album? Ken Hensley from Uriah Heep plays on that album, If you like Elias Hulk you will LOVE it! Came out in 71.
Some of my other Favs are:

Writing on the Wall
High Tide
Flea
Pussy
T2
Bang
Missing Link
Nosferatu ( Who also opened for Sabbath )

This is just a small list, But right now Im obsessing over the "Jerusalem" Re-Issue on CD. SO fresh Sounding!!!
my taste is so WIDE that I love all music.. Even Madonna lol.. The thing I love about her is, she NEVER repeats herself, every new album ( which takes for ever to release ) is.... Different... in good and bad.

No Jimmy, it is not false information. It seems you are aware of him, but don't realize who he is.

ME: In all tech's it is not accurate information. Quote from Lilith:
"Ozzie Osborne NEVER sang one note
Chris Neilsen SANG
John Hobbs played keyboards, not guitar"

One Tin Soldier is NOT a Coven project.
Jinx ASKED that Coven be listed on it..
There are NO MALE vocals on the song..
With it not being a Coven project, The Band members shouldnt be listed.

And being that IF its listed like that as One Tin Soldier, then its not Accurate = False information.

I thought it would be fun to throw a little gas in the fire. Arguably the foremost authority on pop music history

ME: It got a giggle from me, because in all tech's Pop music can be from The Beatles to Black Sabbath to Madonna.. To Marilyn Manson.. Popular Music.. " Pop Music " its all the same.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 06:27am


Do you have Weed? The album? Ken Hensley from Uriah Heep plays on that album, Some of my other Favs are:
Writing on the Wall
High Tide
Flea
Pussy
T2
Bang
Missing Link
(Jimmy)

I've seen the Weed cd reissue but haven't heard it yet.
I have Bang (their first is the best one imo.)
Love High Tide,especially "Sea Shanties" Simon House was a member pre Hawkwind.
Writing On The Wall I have too.
The others Im aware of,but haven't checked out yet.

"Jerusalem",Didn't Ian Gillian produce that or am I getting confused with something else.
I know he produced an early 70's act.
(See no Googling).

How about:
Truth & Janey
Shinki Chen
Neon Rose
JPT Scare Band
Wizards From Kansas
Josefus
Strawberry Path
Buffalo
Ursa Major
Atomic Rooster
Hard Stuff

As for Madonna,can't stand her.
I don't like her voice,songs,anything about her.
I bought her Sex book as a x-mas gift last year used and I like most guys took a look inside before gift wrapping it and,it did nothing for me.

Rap? not a fan of either.
If I'm going to listen to anything along those lines it would be The Last Poets who were good.

I have heard several people that are collector friends mention "Pussy",I should check that out.




Posted by Unknown on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 08:51am


"Jerusalem",Didn't Ian Gillian produce that or am I getting confused with something else.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 08:56am


That was rather weird, I typed in my comment and didnt take? lol.

"Jerusalem",Didn't Ian Gillian produce that or am I getting confused with something else.

Paul, Front man for Jerusalem worked with Ian Gillian on many projects, including Ian's Sister.

Also Paul's side project band was " Pussy ". Deff worth Checking out.

Bangs First album also is one of my favs. their version Of " No Sugar Tonight " I really liked when I heard it.

Atomic Rooster, Truth and Janey, Joefus, and most that you mentioned are in my taste that I like..

The Mentioned Video from Necro.. Which I have a story about him, He used to go to Limelight a lot with Rob Gee.. But he could NEVER get in on wed nights, aka Disco 2000.. esp when Kenny Kenny was working the door..He would stand outside and rant about not getting in, Even picked a fight with Kenny Kenny, at those days, they would let you in way underage, Peter was making money he didnt care, esp around wed Nights at Disco 2000..
But he did get to preform at Limelight when it became Avalon, after the club kid kaboom of 96. With Rob Gee, and even won a " Rave Off " LOL.. wasnt such a deathcore rapper then!

This is what he did to Jinx and Coven, its ( I will say again ) HORRIBLE.. he STOLE the sample from portrait pretty much.. This is the kind of things I mentioned when musicians " Borrowed = stealing " from Coven.. the list is endless..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Undw3FlbnNE

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 09:08am


U.S. Financial news today.Hail Corporate Christians with their fingers on the Rapture Button.

Being Left Hand Path, Coven fought this slant for years. And no one took them seriously.

The Devil wins after all. Its just the wrong Devil.

Posted by lilith on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 09:10am


At this rate, if it continues, I dont know what people are going to do.. Gas Prices, High Medical Care / Bills..

I agree, Christianity is the real Devil and evil..
And I also agreed with M.Vagarus posts back... " Church's should be taxed. " They use it as a org. to not have to pay taxes.. when its run like business's and corporations. Sadly, no one will ever open their eyes.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 11:01am


Someone above asked me to describe Corporate Christians.

Here is another example:
With their dire warnings of impending economic doom and their sweeping request for unprecedented sums of money and authority to bail out cash-starved financial firms, Bush and his economic chiefs have focused the attention of world markets on Congress, Ryan added.

"We're in this moment, and if we fail to do the right thing, Heaven help us," he said.

You're looking down the wrong path buddy.

Posted by lilith on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 13:10pm


Speaking of Corporate Christians, Sharon Osbourne has a new show on oct 12th on VH1.. School of Rock.. Girl Love.. LOL!!!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 13:16pm


U.S. Govt. Official "We're in this moment, and if we fail to do the right thing, Heaven help us," he said.

"Do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end." Coven

Posted by lilith on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 13:50pm


This is what he did to Jinx and Coven, its ( I will say again ) HORRIBLE.. he STOLE the sample from portrait pretty much.. This is the kind of things I mentioned when musicians " Borrowed = stealing " from Coven.. the list is endless..
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

Well that is rather lame him doing that,I'm not up on rap that much.
Is he now considered an important artist in that genre?

Yeah, those were some "wild' times ono cassion @ The Limelight!

Sidebar:
Ever notice Blue Oyster Cult's -Cities On Flame With Rock And Roll" from their S/T debut is Black Sabbath's "The Wizard" from their S/T debut?
Columbia wanted their own "Sabbath" so the signed BOC.

" Bush " well that something I 8think* we ALL can AGREE on.
George Bush = HORROR SHOW!

Posted by Unknown on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 19:41pm


Sadly, no one will ever open their eyes.
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy

These lyrics sum up my sentiments nicely,and I agree things are f@#$ed no doubt.

WHILE YOU WERE LOOKING AT ME
Van Zandt/ Monroe

While you were looking at me
The world passed you by
You held your prejudice sacred
And left your dreams behind
While you were looking at me
The homeless stayed in the streets
You learned to drink poisoned water
But never learned how to read
Well it's easy to put the blame on someone elseBut it's hard to see yourself
Did you ever take a good look at yourself?
While you were looking at me
Airport security diedAnd the smugglers and the terrorists
Just walked right by
'Cause they don't dress like me
They dress like you
They wear suits and ties
Like all you hypocrites doWell it's easy to point your finger at someone else
But it's hard to see yourself
Ain't it hard to take a good look at yourself?While you were looking at me
Businessmen bled you dry
You lost control of your government
It's getting scary outside!
While you were looking at me
Your children took the fall
Trying to be Mommy and Daddy
With dope and alcohol
You censor people like me
But it won't do you no good
The truth's gonna get through
No matter what you doWhile you were looking at me...

Posted by Unknown on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 19:48pm


Is he now considered an important artist in that genre?

ME: Oh yea, he is well known now. This is what I ment by people " borrowing " from Coven.. It happend then and it happens now. I was told things by my father, not to buy into what you see from a certain artist.. and my source confirmed what my father had told me.. and that source is highly crediable and reliable because that source was involved in those inner circles. And I NEVER once mentioned it to that source..

Columbia wanted their own "Sabbath" so the signed BOC.

ME: Yea.. and they jumped to get Ozzy on his solo Career too. Something else was brought to my attention too, and I am currently researching into it more.. As soon as I can find a Catalog number on the release of a Single on Vertigo.. I dont have it in my fathers belongings, But my friend in Belgium is helping me look into it more, I have a Book that has all Vertigo releases on album and single.. but this does NOT show a catalog number..I came across the Warner Brothers test press.. That shows all of Sabbaths Singles, but War Pigs, isnt one of them In the states,SO I am thinking that it might have been in the process of being a single in the states. For it to be listed in all the Sabbath singles of the 70's from Warner.
In the book I have, It just says :
Released 1971
45 - Vertigo
It could have been a Promo release.. back then they really didnt keep the catalog numbers for such. They went to Stations.. ect ect.

But when it was brought to my attention.. and I was told some things, I found it a Odd / Strange coincidence. Thats all I am going to go into on that lol.

U.S. Govt. Official "We're in this moment, and if we fail to do the right thing, Heaven help us," he said.

"Do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end." Coven

ME: I Agree.. They are looking up the wrong tree here.. I read some of that yesterday.. More and More this country " Does " in the name of god.. They can royally screw us ( and not in a good way ) Which they have.. and continue to do.. while the money keeps making those wallets fatter and fatter.. HYPOCRITES.. is all they are... Corporate Christians as Lilith used the term.. I just call them Hypocrites..
My song of the year that sums up Bush is :
Dear Mr. President - Pink with The Indigo Girls.
I do NOT trust any of the candidates as it is now.. All they do, is bring dept, which raises prices and taxes.. the hard working American can not survive.. while they sit on their arse eating Caviar.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 06:13am


If you havent heard the Pink song, youtube it you want the "Dear Mr President Live - I'm Not Dead Tour DVD version", I bought that cause of the Screens. its amazing with the screens.

and someone did this:
Coven One Tin Soldier.. The audio isnt great..
but the picture show goes GREAT with the song!! It gives the song even more meaning!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCCR2huE2m8

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 06:38am


I do NOT trust any of the candidates as it is now.. All they do, is bring dept, which raises prices and taxes.. the hard working American can not survive.. while they sit on their arse eating Caviar.
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

Agreed.
I never doubted any inside info. about artists.
I myself worked for several record companies in the past.
One being JEM Records, their labels were Passport,Visa, Passport Jazz,PVC.
Your dad would know I'm sure who JEM was as they had a (then) monopoly at the time as the only importer.
In the early days (way pre me)they were the ones who imported the Vertigo catalog etc to the U.S.
We dist. Enigma before they were bought by Capitol.
I then went onto Geffen for several yrs.
I'm a musician myself,have encountered many known artists.

One thing I wanted to mention.
When I first came to the site I got caught up in this Coven convo. (as you know)lol
I never ventured onto the other boards convos.
After skimming them I now see "what you meant" about people (here at least)not doing proper research and knowing what they are talking about in many instances.
You're correct in that observation.
I also see some of the shit artists that had way less influence then Coven and agree in a perfect world they're much more hall worthy.
They are much more worthy then bands/artists that are only being considered due to their long exsitence,sales figures.
Am I doing an about face?
Yep.

Posted by Unknown on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 08:50am


"Stray Dog" (orig.on Manticore) were a good heavy three piece you might like too.
Checkout their S/T debut first.

I got lucky with all my Vertigo things.
I never bought/buy on E-Bay,I like checking the condition in person for one thing.
Various N.Y./N.J. used record store finds.

May Blitz- $5 mint cond.
Patto S/T- $5 mint
Warhorse-Red Sea $8 mint

I'm a real stickler ,so when i claim mint,I mean mint.
No woc,ring wear etc.

Posted by Unknown on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 09:14am


I cant blame you on the quality when you mention E-bay and such.. There used to me a Music store that I ventured into a lot in Jersey.. Pineapples?.. I think was the name of it.. But that was years ago, doubt its still even there. It used to be in Little Falls.

I sold some of my fathers Sabbath Vertigo albums, only opened them to show the quality.. rarely played.. he had 2 copies of all his records, one for collection, and one to listen to.. Most of the ones I converted over to CD for listening pleasure so it wouldnt cause more ware on the LP's.

I THINK I may have heard the JEM mention from my father.. I remember that NEMS were bootleggers.

If you really want to start to look into the metal roots.. and research it.. Those books are the best place to start.. in 1968 Coven started a style of music that MANY followed after.. a few of the books I have been looking for but hard to find.. those of the early 70's.. But then Lords of Chaos came out and Started at the roots.. Which is Coven... Coven were even approached by Casablanca records .. Pre Kiss and were asked to do the Makeup.. But they rejected.. SO I guess that makes Kiss 2nd best! LoL. And we all knew how fast Kiss sold out to Corporate.. The Dolls.

Its hard to get a point across about Coven's influence.. And I will have to quote M.Vagarus.. " They Started it.. Its DIRECT influence. " and I agree with that.. for any that followed. Just because you are not cited as Influence dont mean anything, In Coven's case, people borrowed = stole.. they NEVER got credit for anything. They could have SOLD MILLIONS, if they followed the record company that wanted more radio hits.. but they were not about that.. they played the music that they loved.. Its proven that Jinx could have had a HUGE solo career with the sales of One Tin Soldier, but she didnt want that.. Thats probably why she wanted Coven to be listed. With Coven.. they to me were more family.

And that seems to be what the hall is turning into... Corporate.. Sales... IMO... Its like they dont care about the music that is being put out, they just go by sales..


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 11:41am


Anyone looking for near-impossible to find vinyl could try a place called Wax Trax in Denver. Since I've had Rhapsody I haven't been in there a lot, but they had a huge selection of vinyl the last time I was in there. I don't think hard to find stuff would sell as well in Denver as say, New York, so it might be worth a look to check out their inventory.

They do have a website.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 17:39pm


I THINK I may have heard the JEM mention from my father.. I remember that NEMS were bootleggers.
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy

No relation,JEM started out just importing albums,then started their own label,expanded into other areas.
When I worked there we had Robin Trower,Utopia,Hanoi Rocks,Steve Hhan,Jeff Berlin,Wendy O Williams many more.
It was a good place to springboard to bigger companies,which I did with Geffen.
Ironicaly Geffen had just released the Hanoi Rocks catalog as reissues via Guns and Roses custom label Uzi Suicide.

And that seems to be what the hall is turning into... Corporate.. Sales... IMO... Its like they dont care about the music that is being put out, they just go by sales..

Agreed,it's shit.

One of the most valuable albums on Vertigo is "Dr.Z -Three Parts To My Soul" (1971).
I myself don't own it,butI heard some of it and it was decent.




Posted by Unknown on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 17:48pm


There used to me a Music store that I ventured into a lot in Jersey.. Pineapples?.. Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~

Hmm,sounds vaguely familiar,but I don't recall ever going there.
Every weekend my collector friends and I would hit record stores waaay out in the boondocks at times.
The ones that weren't far and the best werereg. stops.
Princeton Record Exchange (they even got featured in Mojo as a top store awhile ago).
Vintage Vinyl -First in Irvington,then Fords

Philadelphia Record Exchange
Cheap Thrills in New Brunswick
All Ears Records in New Brunswick (this place was a converted railway food car).

Mr. Mucks in Pompton Plains.

The only ones that are still there are Princeton Record Exchange,Vintage Vinyl

Lots of fun in "the hunt".

Posted by Unknown on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 17:58pm


Anyone looking for near-impossible to find vinyl could try a place called Wax Trax in Denver.
Posted by Gitarzan

Cool,I'll have a look at their website.

Posted by Unknown on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 18:19pm


Vintage Vinyl -First in Irvington,then Fords

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 09:08am


Vintage Vinyl -First in Irvington,then Fords

ME: Haha I lived in Irvington , Good ol Hasbrouck Heights lol. Coconuts was the Music store I mentioned.. It was in Little Falls and moved out close If not Into one of the malls there.. I found some of my albums with the Coconut label on them.. I forgot all about Vintage Vinyl, There are SEVERAL of those stores that are In TN that I frequent a lot..

Thanks for that Site Gitarzan, will have to look at that.. Doubtful they will have what I am looking for though. Which leads me to believe that its a Radio Promo, my station does not have it, Spent several hours a day looking, finally went through them all, My station was opened in 79.. SO it was doubtful they had it anyways, and even if they did, People end up taking what they want anyways.. Our station however does have 2 of Coven's albums.. if I had known that, I never would have taken my CD's lol.. But its all good..


Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 09:25am


Hey Boys! Missed you. Looks like we are talking nicely and getting some good info.

I got a bulletin from the Coven myspace sites and it looks like Jinx may reveal some more info since October is THEIR month.

XXXOOO Diamond Lil

Posted by lilith on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 11:07am


Coconuts was the Music store I mentioned.
Posted by ~ St. Jimmy

Oh okay,Coconuts I know.
They were a chain.
Down south there was the chain Peaches,so it's easy to get confused with all the variuos friut group store names.

I'm pretty sure Princeton Record Store has a website.
Everybody shops there from known -semi known - not known musicians people alike.
Inexpensive too.

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 11:44am


Sweet... Thanks Lilith!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 11:52am


I'm sure everyone's past this whole who came first debate.. but i'll get on with this either way.

First of all i'd like to say the whole Satanic lifestyle is mostly an act, gimmick, etc. I don't give a shit what anyone says.. like that Glen Benton fellow, who says he decapitates, maims, and disembowels sheep in his home in his own leisurely time. Bullshit.

They found an exploitable niche and exploited the hell out of it, and yes, Jinx Dawson's myspace is pretty lame. The whole "goth queen" act, to me, is a last attempt to lure in (in vain) the emerging hot topic weekend makeover goths/emo kids.

Even if they were/are true satanists, what good would it do? It certainly would not get them inducted. In fact, satanists should be shunned as much as possible (goes for all other religions) more than wiccans, MORE THAN JUGGALOS EVEN. Its just keeping us in the dark ages, eons away from any form of progression.

Posted by omgpenis on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 01:29am


Its just keeping us in the dark ages, eons away from any form of progression.

Posted by omgpenis

Dear omgpenis;
By your posting name, one can easily tell you are NOT enlightened.Jinx follows an old family Practice, not a religion, called Left Hand Path which is one of knowledge,one with nature, illumination and truth.This IS progression.If we do not follow this path I fear all is lost for the human race.Do some research, not just go by these phony new bands looking to cash in on Halloween antics. I think you will find illumination.

Posted by lilith on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 05:36am


I'm sure everyone's past this whole who came first debate.. but i'll get on with this either way.

First of all i'd like to say the whole Satanic lifestyle is mostly an act, gimmick, etc. I don't give a shit what anyone says.. like that Glen Benton fellow, who says he decapitates, maims, and disembowels sheep in his home in his own leisurely time. Bullshit.

They found an exploitable niche and exploited the hell out of it, and yes, Jinx Dawson's myspace is pretty lame. The whole "goth queen" act, to me, is a last attempt to lure in (in vain) the emerging hot topic weekend makeover goths/emo kids.

Even if they were/are true satanists, what good would it do? It certainly would not get them inducted. In fact, satanists should be shunned as much as possible (goes for all other religions) more than wiccans, MORE THAN JUGGALOS EVEN. Its just keeping us in the dark ages, eons away from any form of progression.

Posted by omgpenis on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 01:29am

ME: Isnt he the lead singer for Deicide?.. Thats right he is, Half of what he says is outta humor..like he said about the " butchering " I have seen that interview on youtube lol.

Dude, If Hot Topic sold Jinx's clothing style I would SO shop there!! BTW, Emo / Goth ... 2 Totally different styles..lifestyles.. But Hot Topic has gotten so EMO.. its hard to find good Gothic Clothing.. until around Halloween!

The whole "goth queen" act

What is she acting? She didnt give herself that name, She saw she was refered to that when look herself up on the internet and such... And that is what she was called.. It stuck, and it suits her!!
She can pull of Black.. Looks FAB on her..

And you last statement I am going to say this, You can not shun anyones beliefs because you do not know what they are.. How do we know who is what in the rock and roll hall of fame?... We dont. Some dont " broadcast " their beliefs, but I bet more than a majority are christian...

MORE THAN JUGGALOS EVEN
I wish that someone would explain that term " Juggalo " to me.. To me they look like a bunch of people wearing clown makeup... like they could play the lead in Killer Clowns from Outter Space, or IT... which is... Scary..and a bunch of ICP worshipers.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 07:28am


Unkown and Jimmy: I am glad to see that you boys are playing nice together in the sandbox and actually enjoying each others conversation.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 09:27am


Well Im finally gonna get my hands on the War Pigs .. It was a radio promo.. not released as a single in the states. my friend in Belgium found it!

Posted by ~ St.Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 10.9.08 @ 10:07am


Jimmy...do you ever recall hearing a band called "Electric Lucifer"? At that aformentioned music festival with Sugarloaf in 1969, I won an album by them in a drawing...seeemed to be part electronic, part metal, part "holy smokes, what am I listening to?"...LOL!!! Interesting stuff!!! It might have been shortly after Coven's first releases.

Anyway, just curious....

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 10.12.08 @ 09:11am


It sounds very familiar... Wasnt Bruce Hack a part of it, or something like that? I dont think I have actually heard it, But I will deff go through and see if I have it.. Sugarloaf... Love them lol.. Yea at that time also when you think about it, Electro ( Electronic music ) was deffinatly differnt.. with bands like Kraftwerk.. im going to spell this in english but Radioactivity is by far my fav album by them.. Mic Jagger even recorded that piece he did " Invocation of my Demon Brother " that was oddly different lol. In my opinion.. Electro paved the way for New Wave when you think about it with classics like Living on Video by Trans X and so on.. it was deff different lol.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 13:30pm


Jimmy...if you're interested in early electronic music, I'd like to suggest Silver Apples, a group that pre-dates Kraftwerk by just a bit. A good song by them to start with is called "Oscillations"...not to bad for mid-60's!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 21:46pm


Jimmy...you're absolutely right, it was Bruce Haack, and the ALBUM was called "The Electric Lucifer"...definitely some interesting stuff!! I went to Rhapsody and "BLAM!!!!"...there it was! It was cool to see that album cover again...brings back memories of that little festival. Sugarloaf was there for 3 days (which was probably easy for them since they're from my neck of the woods), and they were pretty cool about just chatting with people like me (a 14 year old guitar wannabe at the time). Funny thing is, I've had interaction with some of the members over the years...that's Rock & Roll for ya!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 21:55pm


Thanks Gitarzan.. I'll look for it, I dont have The Electric Lucifer but a friend of mine that was in PTV ( Psychic TV ) is going to loan me his copy, when I spoke to him about it.. thats where I knew of the name Bruce Haack ( sorry I mispelled it ) Keefy talked and still does about his work all the time. I was telling him about the Coven Thread and stuff... and he was like WOW Jinx Dawson, I would so love to meet her.. he cites her as a influence too.. and talk to her, but not as a fan, he is a fan, but as another artist.. artist to artist. If you remember Psychic TV, Keefy was the one that took the break from the band and joined up with the Club Kids in NYC.. for about 10 months, Michael Alig named him Keda.. Thats how I met him and came close with some of the members of Psychic TV... check out the You Tube video from them its called Unclean... really good and artsy.

But I did hear from The Electric Lucifer, the track " Song of the Death Machine " liked what I did hear of it over the phone.. reminded me of " A Clockwork Orange. " hadda watch the movie after hanging up with Keefy LoL. and I will Deff look for Silver Apples too... cause I love Kraftwerk..
Thanks!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 23:42pm


Oh another thing lol... One Tin Soldier was re-recorded by a punk rock band called Me First and the Gimmie Gimmies, had a request for it today.... I just youtubed it to see if there was a video..
not a official one but someone did this one!

I like punk.. like this version... but still no one can do it better than Jinx / Coven

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GneO16PEvtU

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 23:56pm


Simeon Coxe from Silver Apples had a project about 4 years ago called Alchemysts & Simeon which is interesting. If you like Kraftwerk and Bruce Haack, you'll love Silver Apples...electronic with a heavy backbeat...good stuff!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 10.16.08 @ 19:31pm


Jimmy...weren't some of the guys from Psychic TV also from Throbbing Gristle? I liked that album called "Pink Box"...very cool Floyd remakes...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 10.18.08 @ 18:32pm


I hit the button too soon...LOL!!! Anyway I liked their track on that album called "Set The Controls For The Heat Of The Sun". I'm going back to Rhapsody to listen to them some more...there's a lot of their stuff on there.

Thanks For the tip...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 10.18.08 @ 18:37pm


Yes they were, Keefy was also close to Rozz Williams of Christian Death, and was offered the keyboard position, but unfortunally, Rozz took his life not long after. Psychic TV also covered Good Vibrations - The Beach Boys, it was before they were considered a " Dangerous Band " and it was a album before Keefy joined the band. Keefy is in the Unclean video I mentioned, he is the one in make up.... that was also his club kid look. And a shot of a certain Piercing too before they became popular too. Michael offered him 5,000 if he would do it on stage one night at Disco 2000. they had a guy come in and do it wasnt a pretty site LOL. we were all Horrified at what we saw LOL. Some of the guys of Psychic TV also played with The Legendary Pink Dots also.
I Listened to The Electric Lucifer.... Really like it, Ahead of its time... I did tho have the 2nd Silver Apples Album.. have the first ordered.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 10.19.08 @ 21:21pm


The Notwithstanding Clause, Yea you probably know a lot about that too.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 18:23pm


Coven sucks ass

Posted by The Notwithstanding Clause on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 13:13pm

Yet another half-baked "music critic" who probably doesn't know anything about Coven... or any other meaningful music, for that matter. Once again...the old saying goes "Keep quiet and let people think you're stupid...!!!"

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 18:55pm


LOL! Gitarzan, good saying that is.
Probably never heard a Coven song in his or her life. Just Gotta put their 2 cents in.... unless thats Lester Bangs speaking from beyond the grave, out doing his early trick or treating. Was browsing out of boredom, I was SHOCKED to see that Gram Parsons has never been considered also.. Shame.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 21:41pm


Jimmy, just trying to get a feel for your musical tastes, so I thought I'd throw in a band called Dead Can Dance...they made some noise in the late 70's- early 80's. I thought their music was pretty interesting. If you haven't, check them out. They're labeled as Goth, but I don't know if that's appropriate.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 15:14pm


Love " Dead can Dance". Own most of their Catalog, along with Bauhaus, Killing Joke ( Which is another one of my Favs )and there was another band in the early 80s named Nosferatu also that was very gothic, But not to be confused with the German Progressive band of the same name of the 70's. I love Music in all forms, from Classical to Opera, To Heavy Metal, Pop, and even SOME not all but some Death Metal / Black Metal, Industrial, Techno, Electro, Syn Pop...( I.E. The Group Freeze Pop ) that have the early 80s sound of synthesizers. Experemental, Progressive, some country.. like I said my taste is very wide.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 22:02pm


I like Bauhaus and I also like Peter Murphy's solo stuff like "Cuts You Up". If someone asks me what my favorite kind of music is, I say "Good"...which sounds like what your answer would be...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 10.26.08 @ 14:22pm


I am still like a kid when I purchase a L.P.,45. CD. and even some cassettes. I look at the sleeve and cover front to back.. just admireing the artwork.
There are few " styles " of music I really dont care for, and Rap being one of them, and rap metal... enough said with the name Fred Durst. LOL.
Music to me is art in one of the highest forms.

Peter Murphy is brilliant, I just wish I was lucky enough to have seen Bauhaus when they toured. Murphy / Bauhaus, are like Coven, we will never have anyone come along again and grace us with their originality... They are brilliant in their own right.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 10.26.08 @ 17:00pm


The reason that I subscribe to Rhapsody is because I had lost most of my music to a variety of reasons (the most recent being a divorce) and it has enabled me not only to get most of my favorite stuff back, but when people like yourself make suggestions I can immediately go there and sample what you're talking about, which for me is great fun. When it comes to music I at least try to be open-minded and broaden my horizons, if you will. I have also assembled my own "greatest hits" compilations and have thousands of songs in my library...it's like playing a radio station that you know you'll like every track...LOL!!!! I'm adding music that I've either forgotten about or have just been introduced to constantly.

Call it "virtual music collecting", I guess. At the cost of about 1 CD a month, it sure works for me.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 10.26.08 @ 17:39pm


I have never used Rhapsody,I have browsed it a few times.. but never offically used it. But today with the music industry being as weird as it is now, they want it illegal for you to have music on your computer, I read several months ago that lawsuits have been issued for several people over it. There were several articles in several local newspapers here about it, one woman in Chicago I believe it was was charged $2,500 per song she uploaded / downloaded.. and had over 6,000 songs total.
I look at it this way, you purchase the cd, or music from legal sites, then there shouldnt be no problem, you cant burn to cd anyways from Itunes anymore, its all DRM protected, you have to purchase a program to unlock the music to burn, and in turn, turns the music into crappy quality. But all in all the industry wants its money.

I have lost several of my stuff and that my father had over the years, especially when he passed, between moving from his place, there just isnt and wasnt much room for it all.. but most I refuse to let go, as I said I did however convert most of it over to CD so I would still have it, but its not like having the actual copy of it. Going through some stuff that I took to my mothers of his, I found the very first preformance of Sabbath in Germany doing Paranoid and Iron Man.. very very Different lyrics.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 10.26.08 @ 20:39pm


Yep, it's best to stay legal. With Rhapsody, it's actually pretty cool to buy songs one at a time...that way you're not buying a bunch of tracks you don't care for. Plus, you can burn the songs you bought. My subscription allows me unlimited downloads on my MP3 player, also, which I can play in my vehicle, on my stereo, on that stupid Stairmaster, etc... It really wouldn't surprise me to see artists release a couple of singles at a time in the near future, just for that very reason...kind of like when 45 RPM's were hot and heavy. With music being available in this format, if an artist releases an album, it had better be great!!!

I did hear about the incident you mentioned, and it's pretty obvious that towing the line on how one "collects" music is a must. As George Orwell said in his book...

"Big Brother IS watching."

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 10.27.08 @ 18:18pm


I will deff have to look into Rhapsody. I'm over the whole Itunes thing anyways, The only reason I still deal with it though is because they have a big todo with Clearchannel Communications.. which is where I work with my station, And they have our podcast there.

Now that you mentioned it, When Madonna released Confessions on a Dancefloor in 05, she had 4 singles from that album.. and every one was back to back. just like it is now with her new album. So maybe its done like that for purposes like Rhapsody?

Another thing I came across today is that Ozzy has a variety show airing on FOX in January.. and he said " Its Work. " which raises many questions on my end..

And Browsing the COVEN Cafepress page I saw that they have a " 40 years of Hell " CD comming soon.. really looking forward to that!!

With the Industry the way it is now, It wouldnt suprise me if they tried to cut out all legal download sites. The DRM unlocker I purchased unlocks them yes, but the quality falls below 128.. and even has skips in the music. Thats why I said in previous posts about the one who downloaded the Coven LP from a blogger.. " you never know who's reading these " PLUS I found that on a blogger site... its a Hard Rock Yankee version.. And there are some Akarma out there too.. those are bootlegs from the ablum anyways.. they have bad quality, and missprints, and edits.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 10.27.08 @ 19:51pm


Jimmy...I think you'd really like Rhapsody. It's all above-board with the licensing and their selection is tremendous!!! I think I told you I found "The Electric Lucifer" on there. The quality is good (I think the default bitrate is 128), and the burner they provide on the site works pretty fast. You can also add any song they offer and play it through the library they provide, plus you can import CD's into it. As I told you before, I had nearly lost everything, so I've been like a kid in a candy store with it. About the only big name artists you can't find are the Beatles (which I hear is in negotiations), AC/DC, and Garth Brooks. It is pretty much considered the best subscription service, and you don't have the limitations that you do on ITunes.

I hope that information helps!! I highly recommmend it!! Just imagine owning nearly every song ever recorded...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 10.28.08 @ 17:48pm


Hey Jimmy...I also found the original broadcast of "War Of The Worlds" (Orson Welles) on Rhapsody...what a kick!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 10.28.08 @ 18:15pm


Thanks Gitarzan, I downloaded and checked it out, your right, it is pretty sweet!.. I had browsed once before on the main site looking one day out of boredom, like I said I never " Offically" used it until lastnight. lol gets addictive, the only other reason I used Itunes was, when certain artists post thier albums on there, they have Bonus tracks or exclusive tracks that are only available at Itunes.

Tonight at Midnight, I saw that Coven are unlocking their myspace player to download the tracks on there. If you havent Checked out Black Swan, you should, Its one of my favs.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 10.30.08 @ 07:08am


I think I'll check that out. Like I've said before, my exposure to them was pretty limited so I'll give them a good listen.I don't know why they didn't get a lot of exposure here, but that could be said about a lot of groups. Something about the "dome" over the midwest...LOL!!!!!

I figured you would be as stunned as I was with Rhapsody. I spent a lot of sleepless nights on that site...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 10.30.08 @ 20:29pm


Yes you are correct, It is addictive, I have been on there most of the day, Thanks for recommending it!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 10.30.08 @ 22:44pm


Since my first hadda be short very short,
And you are right, most people were not exposed to them that much, BUT I will tell you, If Coven were to be doing today what they started doing on stage in 68 through the 70's. They would be widely accepted.. With the inverted crosses, Gothic stage show, Satanic Lyrics..there would be no problem.. it all goes into play with the times, Charlie Manson had a big part to play in why they didnt get the exposure.. when that one photograph came out of him holding the Witchcraft album... instead of Mercury pulling the album, they should have turned it into some sort of positive press ya know. Instead their decision hurt the band.. They didnt pull The White Album.. and it ( and I am going to say this word, " Supposidly " because researching that case.. there are A LOT of supposidly. ) had something to do with that situation. In my opinion, Churches were writing the letters, and Mercury found a excuse to pull the album when that photo came out in Esquire magazine.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 10.30.08 @ 22:45pm


I dunno what is up with this board tonight but also, again I do not condone what happened back then, I used the word Supposidly.. and thats after reading lots of things other than the book, Helter Skelter. Trial transcripts, various other things that are available to the public now. But off that subject.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 10.30.08 @ 22:51pm


Well, I think any time a chosen few try to inflict their will on the masses, I call it plain BAD!!!! If someone works hard to put music out there, then let each individual make up there own mind...if you don't like it, don't listen to it, don't read it, don't watch it, etc...!!! How simple is that?

Funny thing about the Manson thing was I was spending the summer that year with my uncle in Concord, CA, and when that happened it was splashed all over the media more then anything I'd experienced at the time, and there was like something in the air that seemed really weird. It might have been a case of "Welcome to the real world"...LOL!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.31.08 @ 06:27am


I totally agree with that. It just goes into play with showing that certain people / groups, if enough pressure is applied, can have things turned in their favor, With Mercury pulling that album, it hurt the band, and then out of England Black Sabbath appear, and had many connections to Coven.. I was researching, and Sabbath had a track called Walpurgis.. ( which later became War Pigs, but at first was no where near the anti war song ). And Coven did end their opera with "Repent Walpurgis", where Jinx recited some of the Black Mass, and the live Jesus came off the cross and Inverted it, and the audience loved it actually.. This show was known all over with the British Bands. I just find it strange that there is no listing to why Walpurgis was changed into War Pigs, Maybe that had something to do with Warner not wanting to Title the Now Famous Paranoid album that.. But it was released as a 45 on Vertigo.. and a test press from Warner Bros for War Pigs does exist...the Yr it was released as a Anti War song was 1971... One Tin Soldier was also released in 1971. BUT you also have 2 labels too.. you have the Vertigo Label, and then Warner.. to use as dates.. Sabbath were infact preforming Walpurgis in 1970.. not War Pigs. Warner Label says 1970.. Vertigo released it in 1971.. thats where it gets confusing when researching it, lol.

Myspace is being tricky, and not letting people download, I read in the Coven blog that they might have to do that in November for the downloads.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 10.31.08 @ 10:28am


And I was informed today, that there is a book out there that says Sabbath opened their show in 69 and early 1970 with a " Satanic Theme " from reading from a " Book " The show would start, then they would go into Walpurgis. The person that told me is going back to the Library on Monday to get the book for me to read.. SO I am thinking that Lester Bangs saw Sabbath in late 69 or early 70 when he wrote that Sabbath were Englands answer to Coven..With the " Satanic Claptrap " Because as Lilith and I said, Coven's opera was well known through the British bands, and Coven's witchcraft poster was all over England. And Sabbath did take a Photograph the same as Coven's Album cover, and this was around the time the Witchcraft Album was pulled. I wasnt Aware of the " Satanic " opening of the early Sabbath shows. But I am going to look futher into it.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 10.31.08 @ 13:03pm


My earliest recollection of censorship in music (one that was actually happening when I was aware of it, anyway) was a song about inter-racial relationships called "Society's Child" by Janis Ian...I could never understand the big deal. Anyway, there have been so many "subliminal" messages in music that if they had really been on their toes, 90% of all music would be censored in some fashion. Take for example, "Shake, Rattle, and Roll"...

"Like a one-eyed cat, peekin' in a seafood store!"

They would've had a FIT if they would've figured that one out back then...ROFL!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.1.08 @ 12:01pm


Your right I forgot about the Janis Ian song.. but I don't they (record companies) actually pulled the album did they? It goes back to some form of censorship back with Elvis on television shaking his hips. just showed him from the waist up. Then you had Jim Morrison who " refused " to change his words.. then came 2 live crew.. who I do remember seeing their videos on MTV.. then Madonna came out with Justify My Love..funny thing about that was, MTV wouldnt touch it, but I remember the night ABC aired it! unedited LOL.

You know, When Marilyn Manson was doing his Anti - Christ Superstar tour, I went to a few of the dates, and I have a new literal term for bible thumpers.. those people were using their " book " as weapons, literally chunking them out at people waiting in line to get in the stadium. Thats going to far..
And as I said before, If Coven were doing what they did on stage in 68 through the 70s.. today, as a band.. there really wouldnt be any problem.. The letter drives im sure would go to the politicians, record companies ect ect.. but it really wouldnt matter in todays music scene. but in 1969 it did because you had Charlie Manson holding the first album in a photograph, even though there were NO connections from Coven to Manson.. IMO people were afraid that their children would turn into knife clutching devil worshipers. Had Mercury and their management turned that into something positive, they would have made it, because their shows were widely accepted. the audience loved it! Coven were a band that, you were either turned on to by the masses, or you shun away from them.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 11.3.08 @ 13:48pm


Actually, Janis Ian's song was more about airplay banishment, I think. Yes, Elvis' turns with censorship are of legend, and Ed Sullivan imposed his will on more than one artist. He instructed The Stones to change the words of "Let's Spend The Night Together" to "Let's Spend Our Lives Together"...Mick was initially going to test Sullivan, but relented during the song and rolled his eyes in the process. When he told Morrison "you'll never do this show again", Jim calmly looked at him and said, "That's okay, we already did it." Classic Rock & Roll stuff!!!

As far as the "Bible thumpers" go, it's like Ed Sullivan imposing his will on the masses...for the most part, it doesn't work. People respond more to "quiet confidence" and showing a good example, rather than forgetting "do not judge lest ye be judged"...which those people that are inciting trouble like that are doing...judging!!! Whether it's parents, church groups, politicians, etc..., trying to impose their will, young people will draw their own conclusions, and telling them they "can't" just tells them they "will"!!!

I say it's Rock & Roll...love it as you please!!! Once again, Jimmy, it's a pleasure conversing with you!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 11.3.08 @ 18:44pm


Jimmy...It's funny you should bring up Marilyn Manson and censorship. I lived on the other side of Marston Lake from Columbine High School when "the incident" occurred. It was amazing how much backlash there was against MM just because the two perps listened to him. He was scheduled to perform at the Fillmore in Denver the next week, I believe, but cancelled the show because of the uproar. Now, I'm not a big fan of MM, just don't think he's all that talented (I do think that John 5 is a brilliant guitarist, though), but I really don't think what happened at that school had anything to do with him at all, but people just needed a focal point for their outrage. When that happened, I thought "here we go again". Those two were going to do what they did if they had been listening to Muzak...period.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.8.08 @ 11:12am


I remember that he did several interviews after that happened because he was the one that the finger was pointed at. I Like Manson, and I love seeing him live because of his onstage antics.. can really push buttons.. it goes with any form of music, In Tennessee, when Natalie Manes ( Who is a great person, Met her ) spoke out against G.W. Bush, They were not allowed Airplay.. The guy that committed suicide that listened to Ozzy's " Suicide Solution.. the 2 that took their lifes from listening to Judas Priest.. the list is probably endless... and your right, they were going to do it reguardless of music or not..

If you dont know about this, Check it out, It is a cause that I support and have since 93..Natalie Manes jumped on too, Bands like The Cure, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Michale Graves... the list is endless along with actors... is The West Memphis Three.. at www.wm3.org

Those 3 boys ( Men Now ) are in prison for murder they did not commit.. ( Thats my opinion ) and if you research it you can gather yours, I have followed it since 94. But because those 3 wore black, listened to Heavy Metal, they were labeled Satanists, and were accused of murder. No evidence against them, Infact recent evidence came up that a hair of one of the boys step dads was found in the shoe laces that tied the childern up...still they are in prison.. one is waiting on death row..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 11.8.08 @ 18:17pm


I remember seeing "Paradise Lost" some time ago, if that's the case you're speaking of. I also came away from it feeling that they did get railroaded a bit. It was a horrific crime, and of course the police probably felt pressure from the public that "someone should hang for this".

Makes you wonder how many real life "monsters" are still walking around because of haste to "seek justice".

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.8.08 @ 19:11pm


Thats the one I speak of, The police caused a " Satanic Panic " with that case.. But this up comming trial is the last they well have esp for Damien Echols... he is the one on death row.. you should see the sequal Revelations...to paradise lost.. Also the Crazy father.. has changed his tune now and is supporting the wm3.. he realizes now that is possible one of the boys step father did it. because of that hair found recently in the shoe lace.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 11.9.08 @ 01:42am


The general (St.Jimmy) is RIGHT..COVEN was and IS THE FIRST TO CREATE ALL METAL AND GOTH..a matter of fact if you see the inside the gatefold of blood on the snow album you can see just where Christian death gets thier imagery and concept before sabbath came along Coven was the first to create haunting sounds that will last a life-time

Posted by Swan on Thursday, 11.13.08 @ 09:41am


COVEN was indeed the first group to reveal all this esoteric information through their music...Respect must be given where respect is due...

Not withstanding all the many "rock firsts" they own, the "Sign of the Horns" in rock is enough to get them their just respect...Rock on COVEN...We love you...

XXX Diamond Lil

Posted by lilith on Thursday, 11.13.08 @ 13:48pm


My experience with Coven is plain and simply "One Tin Soldier", which got played to death in the Denver area. I guess I'm not exactly sure why, but a lot of what Jimmy has said makes sense on the limited airplay in this area. My first exposure to rock with a harder edge was Hendrix, Iron Butterfly, Cream, etc...a genre known at the time as "Acid Rock", which was obviously a recursor to metal.

My vantage point is mostly what I had available to listen to...I can't even remember the first time I heard the term "heavy metal". It seems like I was in high school and it was either associated with Led Zeppelin or Sabbath. It seems like other parts of the country, musicwise, might as well have been another planet.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 11.13.08 @ 17:56pm


If I remember correctly, wasn't it John Lennon who used the term Heavy Metal?
In my case, Coven was and still is a house hold name. ( And the first band to get me expelled from the 8th grade! LOL! ) Their single, Wicked Woman.. was released before One Tin Soldier. I did read that it was a midwestern Hit. ( The Mentioned single not One Tin Solider ) As posts above they are right, Coven did release information that caused a lot of commotion with groups, be it secret societies, or Church letter drives. And Like I said, The Letters were comming in from the Churches, Mercury had pressure on them, and when the photo of Charlie Manson holding the first album came out.... Mercury found a excuse to pull the album...even though there was no connection. They should have turned it into something positive other than pull the album.. if you think back, esp in the H. Ashbury area, The Occult was big..and musicians of every form did take part in the rituals.. but it was hushed I think. When Coven's album is pulled, Black Sabbath entered on Mercury sub label Vertigo.. With a lead singer named Ozzy Osbourne.. Coven Bassist's name - Oz Osborne.. The Name of the band had that of a Coven Song. and They took a photo similar to Coven's album cover. Coven's promo poster was all over England.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 11.13.08 @ 21:17pm


As I look back, we were probably deprived of a lot of good music because of a very few people's hang-ups. The occult was very much a part of the underground hippie movement (which my older sister was part of). There was a little beatnik club called "Belly Of The Whale" on the college campus in Greeley (my hometown), and the times I got drug in there, I noticed some "very strange things" going on in there...LOL!!! Consider that this was the mid-60's and I was in my early teens. People with their hands on a table, repeatring over and over "Up table", trying to get it to levitate, lots of Quija boards, tarot cards, that sort of thing. I was almost convinced my name had been changed to "Little Dude". The music that was played in there certainly wasn't radio "Top 40". Now that I look back, it was a great time to be alive...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 11.13.08 @ 21:34pm


That is true!

You know, when I thought about it today, At and around the time of Coven. There was no band to even compare to what they were doing on stage.. I'm not talking theatrics, I am talking their full out Opera, with the live Jesus, that inverted the cross at the end of the show.. there was no band that I can recall doing anything like this... But it looks like, Coven also would consider the be the beginning of " Shock Rock " also. where as like Alice Cooper.. was theatrics... what went on Coven's stage.... was " Shocking " to some.. way before Alice Cooper..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Friday, 11.14.08 @ 09:17am


Actually, as far as theatrics, Screamin' Jay Hawkins was probably the first "shocker", but he just went out of his way to be obnoxious...LOL!!!! He had all sorts of weird props and screamed and yelled...how charming!!!! You might get a kick out of checking him out on YouTube. The stuff that you speak of was definitely something totally different, though. I can honestly say I'd never heard of anyone doing anything remotely like that...I'm sure what they did was truly original. From what you describe, I can just picture people being in a total uproar over it...but that's Rock & Roll for ya!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 11.14.08 @ 19:29pm


Oh yea I have seen those screaming Jay Hawkings videos! LOL !..
But he was Nothing compared to Coven's Live shows...
The Live Jesus on the cross.. Was statuesque.. rarely moved.. When Coven, reached the Final Number, Which was their version of Procol Harum's " Repent Walpurgis" Jinx would say some of the black mass, and I dont remember if she Gave the sign of the horns first, and hail satan! and then the Jesus came off the cross and Inverted it. It maybe the other way around, but it goes with something to that affect. The audience was " Shocked " but it was widely revieved by them.. after they came out of the shock LOL. and well enter the churches and their letters.. It was 1968 / 1969... NO ONE could follow Coven.. Not even Frank Zappa... and I heard Alice Cooper was SCARED!! LOL.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 11.14.08 @ 21:10pm


Mind you, some of the times, Jinx had to speak in Latin, they forbid her to speak in English. At the Black Arts Fest.. 1969 in Detroit.. Jinx said I believe it was " Happy All Hallow's Eve Detroit " and they were pretty much taken to the police dept and detained for conspiracy to start a riot. From pretty much 1968 to 2008.. and beyond, Coven were the first band to actually be banned. And if G. Book of World Records, did a search on it.. Coven would be in it as Most Banned Band.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 11.14.08 @ 21:26pm


Jimmy...I wanted to give you this website about banned music...I think you'll find it interesting (They had even banned "Puff, The Magic Dragon"...I'm crushed...LOL!!!!)

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/339742/music_thats_been_banned.html

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 09:13am


Jimmy, I wanted to respond to this also...I don't recall hearing "Wicked Woman" by Coven back then. Of course, that was just before stations in Denver like KBPI or KBCO, who weren't harnessed by a "corporate playlist" (even though they are now...too bad, because they were great stations). Maybe if I hear it, it would jar some cobwebs...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 09:46am


Thanks for the site! Ill check it out.
Go over to the coven myspace,Jinx Has that and White Witch Of Rose Hall on the playlist, Along with the new Black Swan.. Great Song. Its not about How heavy the " Music " is, Its about How heavy the Vocals are.. Jinx's Vocals on Black Swan, Haunting.!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 10:27am


Also I wanted to mention, That White Witch Of Rose Hall is a true story, I actually got the pleasure to go there a few years back, the history, and what happened was and is still very interesting. Apparently when Annie Palmer, ( White Witch of Rose Hall ) grew tired of the slaves on the property, she murdered them.. and the father of one of the slave girls she murdered, cast her in a well, and it was sealed, I believe that was correct.. like I said it was a few yrs ago, when I actually became interested in that history.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 13:08pm


That brings up another interesting topic of conversation...how music and real events mesh at times...like the song you mentioned, Ohio by CSN&Y, and the name of a certain group...Children of Bodom...now there's a grim tale for ya!!!

If "Black Swan" pre-dated Black Sabbath, then I'll be the first to stand up and say early Sabbath sounds like Coven...not vice versa. I can say that I'd never heard it, but it sounded pretty good...definitely noe "One Tin Soldier". She was and probably still is an amazing vocalist.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 16:18pm


Actually, Black Swan.. is on the " Metal Goth Queen out of the Vault " 1976-2008.

But Youtube Blood on the snow, And listen to Sabbath's " SuperStar " Blood on the Snow, was 73 / 74.. Superstar was 75 /76.
Music wise, there are a lot of simular instances. or coindinces..

Covens's first single was Wicked Woman in 1969 on Mercury
Sabbath Released their version of Crow's Evil Woman, On Vertigo ( Mercurys Sub Label )
Coven recored the song Black Sabbath first, and is the albums opener.. both songs are totally different,BUT here is the " Simular " you can youtube Coven Black Sabbath.. you can hear the simialr notes, in guitar, except that those of Sabbath's are the Tuned down sound.. I dont know how to read music.. or I can give you the actual Notes, from Covens version to Sabbath's..
Black Sabbath, S/T is also the album opener..
There are so many Instances to call... Sabbath did infact have the " Walpurgis " aka The Witches Sabbat.
Coven Ended their live shows with their version of Repent Walpurgis, Jinx says some of the black mass......
The End of Black Sabbath's " Walpurgis " goes
" Its the same where every you may go, To black Masses people go "
Coven's show was well known with the English bands and their circles... It was only later till Walpurgis was changed into the anti war song, War Pigs.. 1970/71 depending on which label you go by.. BUT Vertigo DID release it as a single in 1971.... the same yr as One Tin Solider.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 16:37pm


And the names also..
Ozzy Osbourne

And Coven's bassist
Ozzie Osborne..

No one can pin point when "John Michael Osbourne" became Ozzy.. Like I said Coven's shows were well knownin England.. Their promo poster was all over England also. Other than when he got the name Ozzy tattooed on his nuckles, WHICH according to the Behind the Music.. from VH1.. was around the time he was in jail in 68, for stealing a TV and didnt wear gloves and got caught. Coven were preforming in 68, and the Witchcraft album was released in early 69.

And the mentioned Walpurgis from Sabbath.. was preformed in 69-70.. only it changed when it was recorded for the Paranoid album.. to that of a Anti War Song.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 16:46pm


I was looking at the site you posted for banned music,

This I knew all to well,
"A senior executive at giant radio conglomerate Clear Channel Communications distributed a memo to all 1300 Clear Channel stations. This memo included a list of 150 songs with "inappropriate lyrics." Included in this list was the 1968 Louis Armstrong song "What a Wonderful World", R.E.M's "It's the End of the World as We Know It", and Kansas' "Dust in the Wind."

There was actually, a few more added to that memo too.

Posted by ~St Jimmy~ on Sunday, 11.16.08 @ 10:13am


Clear Channel would play Pat & Debbie Boone 24/7 if you gave them the chance...LOL!!! They truly are the scourge of radio airplay!! That's why a lot of people I know either stream out of town indie stations or go to Rhapsody (or other subscription services) and make up their own playlists.

There's a station in denver operated by them in Denver called KRFX ("The Fox") and are billed as "Classic Rock"...my eye!!!! Try "Classic Top 40"...UGH!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 11.16.08 @ 19:30pm


Yea, we are known as Rock105,
At first we were the only Heavy Metal station on air, in the area and surroundings
NOW its Top 40...
We dont even really get to list playlists... HOWEVER the live broadcast on rock105.net allows you to see what being played, and whats next, and whats was played before? I think, I have never been to the site LOL.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 11.17.08 @ 13:24pm


Hey, Jimmy...I wanted you to see this video so you'd understand where I'm coming from a bit, since my exposure to Coven was extremely limited at best. I guess I was about 13 or so when this aired, and had been playing guitar for about a year. It kind of made me go "hmmm....!!" It had a "psychedelic" stamp on it, but it was a little different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fObC7TjZ8R0

Is that station that you speak of in Tennessee? The closest thing to a hard rock station in Denver would be KBPI. About the best alternative station would be KBCO out of Boulder. They both list their previously played songs, if you'd be interested in seeing what we're exposed to here.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 11.18.08 @ 18:39pm


Wow I have not heard that in a Long time!

yes, that is the station where I work.. but after friday, I am taking personal time from there, If I even choose to go back.
Like I said AT FIRST we were the only Heavy Metal, station in and around the surrounding area's.. Played everything from Venom to Metallica, and then some of the Hardcore Metal when it came out.. Like Life of Agony, Biohazard, way to many to list. But now its a cross of this Lets make a record, get a bunch of groupies, and make videos!! stuff ( IE Nickleback, Puddle of Mudd ect ect ) and Emo.. and pop too! which goes great with the Metallica Meltdown, backed by Janet Jackson or Madonna!!! LoL

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 19:31pm


On the subject of Black Sabbath and Ozzy . . . I'll have to admit that I'm a rabid fan of the first five Sabbath albums. Pure energy. But man, I am just sick to death of the Osbournes already. And it's beginning to affect my appreciation for Black Sabbath in general. I can't even allow Volume Four to play all the way through -- there's no way that I'll listen to "Changes" (which was a bad song to begin with) after Kelly Osbourne did that duet with her idiot father . . . pee yoo!

Back to Coven:

I have always thought that the greatest album cover of all time should go to Coven's "Witchcraft". What an amazing gatefold design with all the lyrics written out and the Black Mass liturgy presented in its entirety. Beautiful. That was definitely a product of rock's Golden Age, when care was put into the album covers. CDs destroyed that wonderful craft -- the craft of contriving beautiful album covers . . . ah, the age of vinyl.

Posted by Matt Flash on Saturday, 11.22.08 @ 11:17am


I agree Matt.
They ( Sabbath ) Lost their " Energy " after Sabbath Bloody Sabbath.. And lo and Behold, Ozzy and Sharon return to Fox in January with a VARIETY show!!! Which, pretty much sounds he will do anything after reading a article on it, he says " It's Work. "

And thanks to Photoshop CS3 for making most of the bad album covers today.. and various other programs.
Coven were the first to do many many things Original.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 11.22.08 @ 12:56pm


I'm actually partial to some of Molly Hatchet's album covers, but I'm also a fan of Frank Frazetta/Boris Vallejo type of artistry, too. I'm not overly crazy about their music, though...doesn't that figure...LOL!!!!

It really wasn't until the timeline that you speak of that album covers started getting creative. Not knowing the albums that you speak of, I guess "Sgt. Pepper's" was about the first album cover that made me think "Boy, that's unusual". I can rank Bruce Haack's "The Electric Lucifer" right up there too, if I'm not mistaken...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 09:26am


Here ya go Gitarzan,
Scroll all the way to the bottom and you will see the links to view the album cover and inside.

http://www.geocities.com/occult_library/coven.html.
And here is a link to The Sabbath photo mentioned.. taken like Coven's album cover, only sabbath are wearing Christian Crosses.
Well It will be posted below LoL

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 12:05pm


The Sabbath Photo.

http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t231/jamesaintjames/?action=view¤t=l_bd7bc2cf7ccfbcd9e67715af418faa6e.jpg

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 12:06pm


Where is a lifetime achievement AMA award for Jinx! She did all that stuff way before all the chicks on that show tonight.The sexy REAL blonde heavy rock singer.Plus she started the "Rock On Horned Hand Salute"...


Diamond Lil

Posted by lilith on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 20:39pm


I agree Lilith.
I really did not watch much of it.. the New Kids On the Block kinda ruined it for me.. I think I might have hurt myself laughing..
But all in all, ONE DAY.. I hope that Jinx and Coven get what they fully deserve.. Just because they are not cited as influence.. those people that took from them.. know who they are.. and that makes them rip offs in my opinion. When someone steals, they dont want to own up to it. Everyone from Madonna to Pink to even G.W. Bush, does the horned salute.. I look at it this way, When they do that Horned salute.. they are saluting Jinx Dawson of Coven who introduced it into the mainstream.. who also had many threats, and life put on the line.. for letting out information that some didnt want known...
And I give a Hail Jinx!
Cause she so rightyfully deserves it!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 11.24.08 @ 11:19am


I think the problem is the same as I experienced...lack of exposure in their heyday. Most people aren't as musically open-minded as I am to take the time to ask questions, do research, and LISTEN!!! I think Jinx has an absolutely awesome voice...outside of "One Tin Soldier" I didn't realize how much so until recently.

I'm not really sure what kind of door would need to be opened for any sort of "revival". To my knowledge, they still don't get much airplay (outside of the aformentioned song) around here...if any. I think Clear Channel has cornered the market in the Denver-Metro area, and that REALLY doesn't help (They're to PC).

Jimmy, you're definitely right about the fact that most big-name artists try to convey that they were the "first" to do about anything. More times than not, the originators take a beating to that end...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 11.24.08 @ 19:01pm


Well, Over the years, Coven have been gradually making their presence known. Like for example The Simpsons.. I believe it is episode 1421 called "Bart of War". One Tin Soldier is played. My friend from Belgium had to make a international call to tell me he just heard Coven on The Simpsons.. He was excited!! I believe that Jinx is out there working the magick she does so well.. We never know what she has up her sleeve.

I will be the first to admit that Clearchannel is the WORST corporation out there. You just have to actually work for them, to know what I talk about.. Many Times I wanted to walk away.. but I stuck it through till I finally left..

Jinx Dawson is a AMAZING vocalist. Her range is so wide.. I guess that comes in with her being opera trained. Her vocals add that heaviness to Coven's music. Its a perfect union that makes a great band.
Even today, more and more bands continue to rip them off..
From Rammstein and beyond.. Its unreal, And what gets me is.. These people that say Coven were just a footnote.. Well if that is so.. why are they still continually getting ripped off today? If Coven had no influence on these people, Musicians of today.. Then why do they want to take what does not belong to them, and make it their own?

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 11.24.08 @ 22:41pm


They didn't have a single album on the charts. Not one. I'm talking about the Top 200.
Not even a biography page on AMG.

Posted by denyo on Tuesday, 11.25.08 @ 03:08am


And I suppose AMG has the last word?
Most from that site are mindless ramblings anyways.
If you really want to get into Techs about it.... well I am pretty sure I can make a list of artists that have NEVER had a album in the top 200 also.. that are in the Hall of Fame.
Like for example..
Iggy and the Stooges had only 1 album reach top 200 in 1969.. their S/T. #106 to be exact.
After that they couldn't sell a album. Widely Ignored.. But now they are on the list for induction??
hmmmmmmmm Oh by all means.. That makes them Hall of Fame worthy.

Posted by ~ St, Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 11.25.08 @ 03:58am



ABBA has sold more albums than just about anyone, have their likeness grace a postage stamp (in Sweden), and were one of the biggest groups in just about any decade...yet they're no closer to being inducted than I am. I guess I don't understand denyo's point.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 11.25.08 @ 18:10pm


Nor do I, SO I ventured over to this AMG site.. and saw that it said a " Music Blog " and I thought oh Yipeee.....
I looked up the Stooges out of pondering, and saw that they were in the top 200 last year with the release of a new album?? Did not know that.. SOO That makes 2 albums 1969 and 2007..... that is a LONG time before getting back in the top 200. That proves my point of being Widely ignored, Infact, Iggy and the Stooges Opened for Madonna on her Re-Invention tour.. SOO Thats probably where they got back in the mainstream.
I also Ventured over to the Stevie Nicks thread.. Almost left a comment, because I am all about controversy.. Infact I believe I will later.. Before Stevie there Was Jinx Dawson... Stevie didnt get her look from picking clouds of out of the sky. That is all I am going to say about that.. My father always told me ( even though he adored Stevie ) not to buy into what she sells. Its not Stevie she is trying to sell to you.. Its Jinx Dawson.. I never once mentioned that to a close friend who is part of those inner circles.. Then one day out of the blue.. That person confirmed what my father told me.. That is all I can say about that, because that information told to me, is kept secret.

Yes Abba has sold more albums than anyone, during that time, Now its Mariah Carey. Who I believe if I am correct is the first female to outsell The Beatles.. I'm Not a fan of her, Personally I cant stand her.. And I am sure she will be Inducted, if she hasnt already been.. .for what I dont know.. Women before her, already paved the way for her, It seems the True Pioneers are forgotten.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 11.26.08 @ 10:14am


Nah, ~ St. Jimmy ~, of course you're right, I was just pulling your leg. Coven is the greatest thing that ever walked along this planet and they influenced absolutely everyone and everything that came after them, including myself and I'm not even aware of it. How could I be such an ignorant prick? I mean they're basically on everyone's lips!

Now seriously, dude, if you love 'em so much, great. Enjoy them, go get rat-arsed on them. But your obsessive way of rubbing it into everyone's face is getting really redundant, no offense.

Posted by denyo on Wednesday, 11.26.08 @ 15:27pm


And of course, AMG isn't the bee's knees, but since it's the most comprehensive music site I can think of and since they've got bio pages about any other crap artist, including even The Stooges (whom ah've never even heard of, man), I thought this was a bit representative of the impact they had.

Posted by denyo on Wednesday, 11.26.08 @ 16:25pm


Well Denyo,
First off you dont even know who The Stooges are..
Well they are UP for Induction to the R&R hall of fame...
That it self shows how you dont know how to research..
And no argument here I agree with you " Coven is the greatest thing that ever walked along this planet and they influenced absolutely everyone and everything that came after them." You are right there!! thats about the only thing from your " redundant " arse that makes any notion of me ever agreeing with you..
And BTW.. The AMG is full of nothing but people who BLOG about the music.. if half of that stuff on there was correct, when I mentioned The Stooges, they would have listed the S/T album also..
Oh and by the way, Coven are on the lips of everyone, with a new feature article from Virus magazine.. Gives the folks over in Germany something to talk about too!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 11.26.08 @ 19:27pm


Coven is the greatest thing that ever walked along this planet and they influenced absolutely everyone and everything that came after them, including myself and I'm not even aware of it. How could I be such an ignorant prick? I mean they're basically on everyone's lips!
Posted by denyo on Wednesday, 11.26.08 @ 15:27pm

How could you be so ignorant? You ARE influenced by them as have millions been.Have you ever given the Horned Hand Salute? Ever even seen it? Jinx and Coven are on everyone's HANDS.They started it in rock pop culture.The first to introduce it on stage in 1968 and on their debut album in 1969 and every Coven album after that. Next time you give that hand sign at a concert, remember that.

Posted by lilith on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 05:40am


lilith...I don't know about the hand signal's significance, since people do it and don't really have any idea why or where it came from. In their music, with my limited knowledge anyway, it seems they dared to be different (which is what rock is all about) and were persecuted for it (which also happens in rock a lot over the years). It seems their influence is coming from others picking up on what they did, and not directly from them...there seemed to be pretty hefty roadblocks along the line for them, but they at least stuck to their guns (which artists like Madonna will morph to a different style because "that's where the money is").

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 07:04am


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

I just so love it how you Americans just don't have any sense of irony. D) Of course I've heard of the Stooges, dummy! I even have all their 3 original albums. And, yes, I think I know what the Horned Hand Salute is (also known as "mano cornuto", popularized by Ronnie James Dio - hah, you didn't think I knew that, did ya?)

Now I leave you kiddies alone again. And for those about to rock, I salute you!

Posted by denyo on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 08:15am


Seriously, guys. Develop yourselves some sense of humor. Life's too short, you know?

Posted by denyo on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 08:21am


Irony...you mean like Madonna...who would've been the LAST artist I would've inducted...getting in her first year of eligibility (even though on one seems to be able to give viable evidence of influence, innovation or perpetuation of the artform).

I think there is a lot of irony when it comes to this particular group. Even though the timeline is tight, they do seem to be innovative (even though some don't seem to agree). Also there is such a thing as a "stage act" as opposed to a belief...which of course some people do take seriously and are entitled to.

I commend anyone who has a passion for music, no matter what it is, and I have had some very enjoyable conversations with the people on this page, just by sharing thoughts, ideas, and experiences...I get where they're coming from and hopefully vice versa denyo...maybe you should jump in sometime!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 09:09am


Jimmy...I had heard from a former member of Zephyr, an old Denver-based band, that Coven was either going to use some Tommy Bolin tracks on their new album or already did (Bolin was a member of Zephyr at one time). That would be cool, because that cat could flat PLAY!!!! It'll be interesting to hear how they incorporate that (my guitar player mentality shining through, I guess).

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 09:39am


And, yes, I think I know what the Horned Hand Salute is (also known as "mano cornuto", popularized by Ronnie James Dio - hah, you didn't think I knew that, did ya?)

Posted by denyo on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 08:15am

Well you do NOT know what it is because they are 2 different things.Ronnie Dio does not do the mano, he does the Sign of the Horns,there IS a difference, though they have now seemed to mesh due to internet misinformation.And he did NOT popularize it.He just took credit for it in interviews and did not give credit where it was due.He also tried to get Coven's drummer to play with his band when Coven were going through lawsuits.Which never happened.So don't say he didn't know better.He knew Coven very well.

Diamond Lil

Posted by lilith on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 09:58am


Whatever you say, chief. It's your world. I just live in it.

Posted by denyo on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 10:10am


Gitarzan,
I Love Tommy Bolin.. He is a Magician when he played. And his Last recordings are the Coven album, Metal Goth Queen out of the Vault. It also has some live recordings also that are deffinatly worth checking out.. you can order it from Coven's myspace page, Jinx has links set up to the Coven Cafe Press shop. Also Glen Cornick of Jethro Tull, and Michael Monarch of Steppenwolf play on that alum.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 11:00am


Yep, if he had lived I think he would be mentioned with the best ever. That's definitely a great addition to an album and definitely had my interest piqued...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 11.27.08 @ 21:04pm


I agree Gitarzan, Tommy Bolin is somehow over looked.
And honestly, The " Metal Goth Queen, Out of the Vault " album is well worth it. If you are a Coven fan and a fan of Tommy Bolin.. you get a double. Because they are some of the last of his recordings, and they are incorporated very well..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Tuesday, 12.2.08 @ 11:12am


Are you boys and girls playing nicely here?

I had the pleasure of seeing Tommy Bolin when he was playing with the James Gang. The boy could play.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 12.4.08 @ 05:19am


Blah...yes, we've had some really good (and enlightening) conversations here. There's been good discussions back and forth...you should jump in!!! It's cool how I've found out things about this group I obviously didn't know, and I've given my input on living during that era and what I was exposed to as far as precursors to "metal" goes...cool stuff!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 12.4.08 @ 17:37pm


It's all good here!

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Friday, 12.5.08 @ 23:42pm


You folks still at it over here? I haven't checked in here in a long time! I thought this post closed down back in October. I see St. Jimmy's still pitching snake oil regarding the band.

Jinx Dawson-mania lives!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 12.6.08 @ 05:58am


sexy Sharon Stone movie <a

Posted by Sharon on Saturday, 12.6.08 @ 16:57pm


Jinx Mania always live.
Been interesting convo's back and forth.
Might learn something about a band that is considered a " Footnote " to some.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 12.8.08 @ 12:35pm


Go to the Coven myspace and view the picture of the pentagram on Jinx's left palm.Put all the esoteric info together about her and see what you think.This is a true Magick lady and to be respected.She doesn't go around doing tv commercials as some.She has for the most part stayed very respectfully underground to both her Crafts, music and magick.

Posted by lilith on Monday, 12.8.08 @ 19:03pm


Hey Gitar...... Glad you have enjoyed the conversation. And with all respect to Lilith and Jimmy Boy - I still have zero interest in this band. There talent was minimal at best, as was their influence on the scene. I grew up in that era and we all giggled at their music. I don't think Dio deserves induction and I certainly don't think Coven deserves it and I could care less about a hand sign that has been used for hundreds of years. And as far as Satanism or magik or dark spiritualism in music is concerned, if the songs suck, then it just does not matter.

Again, no disrespect to Coven fans or Jinx herself. I just don't bloody care.

Posted by Blah-blah-blah on Friday, 12.12.08 @ 08:07am


"as was their influence on the scene"
And you have not yet proven anywhere there minimal or any influence.. because you do not know, you were not involved in that whole scene that they associated with.. They had huge followings among other musicians. Just cause one person " giggled " at their music... does not mean the next 20 people did. and those 20 people got their ideas from Coven.. and BTW if you use the sign of the horns.. like Lilith said.. Coven are on your hands.. cause it was they who introduced it to the " mainstream ".

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Tuesday, 12.16.08 @ 10:49am


And you have not yet proven anywhere there minimal or any influence.. because you do not know, you were not involved in that whole scene that they associated with.. (Jimmy)

Since you are the one claiming all this inflence, then the burden of proof is on you. I want to read verifiable quotes from musicians and artists of standing that claim Coven to be a massive influence in their careers.

you were not involved in that whole scene that they associated with. (Jimmy)

I was not there when those wacko's killed Sharon Tate and company, but I knew who influenced them. Would you care to tell me I am wrong about your buddy Uncle Charlie?

Just cause one person " giggled " at their music... does not mean the next 20 people did. and those 20 people got their ideas from Coven.. (Jimmy)

In your dreams little boy.

if you use the sign of the horns.. like Lilith said.. Coven are on your hands.. cause it was they who introduced it to the " mainstream ". (Jimmy)

I am going to tell you this one more time Jimmy - the sign is of Italian (European) orientation. As Dameon has explained to you a thousand times and which I can concur because I am Italian as well, Grandmothers have been using the sign for years to ward off evil spirits, especially when new children are born. And for you to keep mentioning this sign only proves your lack of substance. This is just something for you to grab hold of so you don't sink in your own bullsh*t

Take your hocus-pocus bullshit to someone else. Talk about it to someone who cares; I don't. My comment was meant for Gitarzan. Until I read somewhere that a group of musicians of some meaning proclaim Coven to be a major influence, then they get zero credit in my book. And for a final point of discussion - there songs %&(*!# sucked! And that is the bottom line - there music sucked!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Blah-blah-blah on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 09:15am


Dear Blah,
I do not think anyone is questioning that the "Horned Hand Salute" has been around for hundreds of years.What we are speaking of is that Coven WAS the 1st BAND to ever use this once secret hand sign, constantly starting in 1968, and as pictured on their 1969 album,1971 album and 1974 album-WAY before the other bands who TAKE credit for introducing it to ROCK music.Also in the books "Lucifer Rising" and "Lords of Chaos, the Bloody Rise of the Satanic Metal Underground" and MANY others, Coven is given credit for beginning the metal goth genre in music.And as for other bands giving credit where credit is due, they have clearly demonstrated by the fact they previously took credit for this hand sign which they DID NOT introduce to rock, that they will not give proper credit for that nor other Coven copies.Although one gentleman has given credit to Coven for inspiration, King Diamond in interviews.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 09:39am


Lilith My Dear - My point is that the hand sign in Metal/Hard Rock, whatever, still has nothing to do with the actual music. You know, note, chord and lyric. Hence, it means squat, IMO. As for the Metal Goth Genre - when looking at the whole picture, it is a rather small genre. King Diamond gives Coven kudos - excellent. That is one. My comments here are in relation to the Hall and I will always maintain that Coven has no place in the Hall as an inductee. They are a footnote - nothing more. Unless someone can give me somthing substantial as to the actual influence Coven had on notes, chords, melodies, arrangements and lyrics, then in my opinion - they are not worthy of any induction.

It is always a pleasure to read your comments Lilith, because you at least attempt to provide substance in your opinion.

Posted by Blah-blah-blah on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 10:08am


This is a VERY short list of artists who copied or name COVEN in some way,in art work or
music, some even directly taking lyrics or samples for their albums or naming their groups
from Coven lyrics: Frank Zappa(200 Motels movie where he mentions Coven,Billy the Mountain),
Black Sabbath, DIO, Kiss, Merciful Fate, King Diamond, Rammstein, NECRO, Ferris Odium,Portrait,Stevie Nicks, Choke Thirst Die,Type O Negative and on.

And they had some of the best musicians record with them-Glenn Cornick of Jethro Tull, Michael Monarch of Steppenwolf and Tommy Bolin of Deep Purple, just to name a few.

Jinx is the undisputed Queen of Goth Metal and with her Coven long may she reign.

Posted by lilith on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 10:18am


Well I hope she reigns as well Lilith, as long as it is not in the same Hall with The Beatles, Kinks, The Who and Yardbirds.

All hail the Stooges!

Happy Holidays Lilith - you too Jimmy.

Posted by Blah-blah-blah on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 12:00pm


Dear Blah,
It is interesting to note that in fact, Coven played live shows with the Kinks, the Who, the Yardbirds and the Stooges back in the day.So Coven DID play the "same Halls" with the best.Jinx had much influence on Jimmy Paige (she even designed his infamous stage suit with the dragons and magic symbols because he liked Coven's stage clothes) and was close with George Harrison and Ringo Starr as well.

The question is "what influences rock and roll?" This woman had much influence in many areas of early rock that continues today.

Diamond Lil XXX

Posted by lilith on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 14:38pm


This post is addressed to Blah-blah-blah. Musical influence? What determines musical influence? You asked for quotes and what not . . . But what about a guy like Dio? That shrimp credits himself for doing the horned hand sign in rock. Surely, we know that's NOT the case. Dio didn't do the gesture until 1980. Yet, he'll never admit the truth. I think scores of bands were influenced by Coven. In fact, I corresponded with Coven's producer Bill Traut. Long after he did the Coven LP, he was out in L.A. managing Y & T. He lunched with Motley Crue's manager and was told by their manager that Coven was a BIG influence. Their early stage show was definitely influenced by Coven.

My point remains: What determines musical influence?

Posted by Matt Flash on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 15:10pm


Honestly Lilith, I did not know that about Type O Negative, I know the Drummer of that band well, Sal.. and his Sister.. I know him because he is the drummer also for Life Of Agony, which I am close to the Bass player of Agony. Being that I am not really a fan of Type O, I only have one album from them " Bloody Kisses." I have it because it was given to my by Sal at its release. In 1993. I do know that they did to a cover of Sabbath's " Black Sabbath " From a Satanic perspective.

And Honestly IMO, I don't see anything that the Stooges have done to get in the hall. After their first album, they were widely ignored, and did not have another album on the charts until 2006-2007.. Which they opened for Madonna on her Re-Invention tour. Footage can be seen on her documentary called I'm Going To Tell You A Secret. And Madonna would not even come to her induction unless The Stooges took the stage.. Have you seen them preforing " Burning Up, and Ray Of Light " ROFLAMO. And ALSO Madonna has worn Jinx's designs also.. which is where I comment on this..

Musical Influence - the range is wide.. it can be from Clothing, Jewelry, Hair, Makeup, is just a short list.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 12.27.08 @ 12:32pm


One thing that I've liked about this particular page is that the conversation has manifested into so many other areas. It's cool to read all these different points of view and also have the text remain intelligent...unlike the juvenile crap that's been going on in the "latest comments" section lately.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 08:42am


About Grim Reaper, Gitarzan wrote:
Child in Time 27...you come on here, spouting about all these obscure bands, saying they should be in the HOF (along with a bunch of other unintelligent statements), but you don't give even a hint of influence, innovation, or how they've perpetuated anything as far as taking their artform to another level.

Ah, Gitarzan, you hit the nail on the head.I read your comment about another band and this IS exactly why COVEN deserves the Hall right now more than others.In 2008 Metal/Goth music is in the top 5 most listened to genres.When COVEN started there WAS NO SUCH GENRE at all.There are MANY bands that sell millions of albums, have many fans since rock started, but create the same type of music and images.Strangely enough, this somewhat ignored for many years band started so many things in rock.They had a very hard time starting this genre for the obvious reasons, being too controversial,including lots of too sexy images and having a female singer in a time when it was certainly a competitive boys club among musicians and record execs.Now of course we have tons of sexy female blonde singers looking very similar to Jinx when before HER THERE WERE NONE.I read in an interview somewhere that record execs actually thought Jinx too pretty to front a rock band and were only promoting Janis Joplin and Gracie Slick types.
To quote you, if I may,"influence, innovation, or how they've perpetuated anything as far as taking their artform to another level."

That says it all about Jinx and COVEN.


Posted by lilith on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 10:00am


Lilith...like I've stated earlier, my exposure to Coven is extremely limited, so I've done a lot more reading than commenting on this page until recently. I have no reason to doubt what your perception is of them. When I sat down and really listened to them, they reminded me of Big Brother & the Holding Company in their style (IMO), which in my book is no dig against them at all. I don't know why the airplay was so limited when it came to them around here over the years, but it certainly was. Their music was pretty good, and I've never been too threatened by lyrical content (I have a tendency not to pay attention to lyrics that much, anyway...unless there's a big uproar about them...an example being "Society's Child by Janis Ian, which Jimmy and I discussed previously).

As for my previous comment to CIT 27, the proof is right there. There are so many wonderful stories in rock history, I'm just curious where they're coming from and why they think that music is so good (I'm not fond of it, but that's just me). Hopefully, he'll respond with a learned comment...but I'm not holding my breath!

Lilith...it's always a pleasure!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 10:17am


hi all. I"ve read about halfway through these links. Intersting stuff. I quess the topic is should this coven group be put in the hall of fame. hopefully it's alright i post a . little on this, and on black sabbath in comparison to coven

I didn't know who Coven was until a few weeks ago. I remeber back in the 1970s when my older brother 5 years older then me< i am 44 now had played me this album of a live black mass. He use to listen to the hippie bands and dark bands. Anyways i was thinking about that album recently so i looked up Satan black Mass album seeing i did"t know the bands name. Now I was a big black sabbath fan for years until they split with Ozzy, then i felt like they we're not the same.
anyways back to coven.

Anyways i was shocked to see that coven had a song called black sabbath and video along with it, and also had a bassist name oz osbourne. Now mYBE I COULD EXCEPT THAT THES WE'RE COINCIDENSES TOTHE GROUP BLACK SABBATH, BUT THEN I STATRED LOOKING AT a a few of their pictures, and low and behold they are wearing crosses though upside down, and it reminds me of the inside cover of black sabbaths paranoid album, with the band standing wearing crosses.

Now i can't see how all these coincidences of the name of Ozzy osboune, and the same song title called black sabbath by both bands though completely different songs, and the crosses could be an accident. MAy one or 2 coincenses but 3 of the same ,then i have to beleive that sabbaths manager had plagarized the group covens originalal image.

Anyways, Should Coven get in the hall of fame.
I can't say for sure. I remeber when i listened to Black sabbath in the 1970s, and few few people knew who they were,because Me and my younger brother would call the radio stations up here in Chicago in the 70s and they would not play sabbath> we asked why , and one DJ told me they went to far. Though in the 1980s it all changed and they played anything. > Anyways my point being if an underground band like Sabbath in the 1970s could eventually make it to the hall of fame, , in whoms fans kept them popular before the radio would play them , maybe coven will make it one day also though hitwise musically they don't seem to have made much media attention for years As for the pioneers of dark music in the occults they seems to be the realist to me, though their their music history doesn't have enough history i think to be in the hall of fame of music. . Anyways. anyways What do i know. I didn't know who the heck coven was until a feww weeks ago and read a few threads on line, all because my brothers playing me the Covens Black mass album when i was a young teen got me curious about them, and that's my story. Probaly my only post I'll make here< because There are a lot of post here. Anyways Thanks for reading my story. Good luck to all of you, and as Shakeshere Might say To coven the hall of Fame or Not Coven the Hall of Fame That is the Question.. Bye All Chicago man.
Ps please forgive my bad puntuation.

Posted by frank on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 15:17pm


Here is something else for you Frank that you will find interesting, Black Sabbath's first Single " Evil Woman " ( which was their version of Crows hit ) Was released under Mercury Records sub Label.. Vertigo Records.. And Mercury Records being Coven's Label. ALSO Coven ended their show with their version of Repent Walpurgis, Sabbath had a song that was Titled Walpurgis.. During the end of the Coven show, Jinx cite some of the black mass, Well Sabbath's version of Walpurgis Ozzy sings about Black Masses.... that version can be seen and heard on the Live 1970 DVD and cd.. and its also on Ozzy's greatest hits album.. The Ozzman Commeth. it later became " War Pigs " turned into a anti war song, released on Vertigo 45 in 1971.. the same year that One Tin Soldier was released. and One Tin Soldier Became THE anti war song.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 15:48pm


I looked up all those facts Jimmy Online and they are true. SAbbath i know was a jazz band before they went heavy , AND I'm sure their managers are the ones that did all the imitations in the band, because even Sabbath says themselves that on their first album they had originally an inverted crosses or something like that , which they say was the record companies idea , and had nothing to do with them, hence back in the day lots of christain groups we're protesting their concerts. I can imagine if all of the heat sabbath received from their image, then The Coven band Must have been Musically slaughtered by the record companies with their image after the Charles manson thing. Anyways the Sabbath band become their own band I think once they got started with their own ideas, and own music. laters.

Posted by frank on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 18:16pm


Actually Sabbath was doing benefits for Churches in the early 70's. I have a ticket that belonged to my father from 71 for a benefit in NJ. Another fact I left out in my post was, Sabbath and Coven shared the same stage in the 70's... The british bands were all aware of Coven's stage show.. your right, the first album of Sabbath did have a inverted cross, it was the rec. companys decision... But Sabbath guys do mention a Coven story in The Last Supper VHS and DVD.. that Happend in Memphis..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 18:26pm


heh. I heard did church benefits before. didn't know if it was true or not. Sabbath always seemed to be just guys riding along the the rock train with drugs , a little satanism, a lot of realty of hardcore life and such. I think as for coven, it's amazing a band can come back after all those years. HAs it been done before,. I wish them luck. Though i"m not a deep occult fan . Got to go. hVE A GOOD ONE

Posted by frank on Sunday, 12.28.08 @ 19:35pm


oh one last thing Jimmy. i forgot to mention that i did check out some of covens videos online for the first time a few weeks ago. the Black sabbath videos was kinda coolpsychadelic lke grace slick. and the Blood on the snow with the strobe effects reminded me of mr sandman by metallica, though blood on the snow came first. no i'm not saying now that metallica ripped off covem.lol anyways jinx was a foxy looking lady with an awesome voice. With a voice like that i can't imagined what happened that they didn't become much more famous. I think it was probably the times, because in those days unlike today the media would shun groups like coven, except for a few like Zeplin the doors . I wonder how their new album sounds. her website i checked out. cool stuff.

Posted by frank on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 05:49am


Here Frank, this is the Ticket I spoke of.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lv1chx&s=5

The deal with their fame was like this ( Coven's ) the Rec. Companies wanted more radio hits.. Coven wanted to do their own thing, the Idea that they started when they formed. If you look at the Airplay for One Tin Soldier alone and the many times it was in the top.. They could have sold millions, WHICH isnt a Coven project at all, Jinx just asked that Coven be listed.. and on the film Billy Jack, the end credit to the song says "Sung By Jinx Dawson Of Coven".. It was more a Solo effort, that turned into a huge hit, therefore Jinx could have had a tremendous solo project, but she didnt want that.
but they were not allowed to do what they started out doing, Coven II album, is bluesy sound that they did when they were in Chicago. Blood on the Snow has SOME elements of the first album.. Also Disney took a part in that video, but refused to release it cause they were " horrified " .. Go figure Disney..Who has no problem exploiting their child stars, and trying to make millions of no tallent acts.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 10:42am


Disney was horrified. That's funny. What did disney think a group like coven would produce? rated G.
I think it's kinda cool they we're in chicago seeing I'm here, though when they would starting out i was in kindergarden.lol Thanx for all the coven info. YOu seem like a big fan of theirs.

i own those Billy Jack movies all 4 of them by the way on dvd. enver Knew who sang the song though till recently. I read they originally wanted Linda Ronstadt. I would say they definitely seem like the real deal compared to sabbath who we're dabbling a little with the occults , but didn't really seem to really practice it, unlike the coven who you can tell we're really into it, and knew what they we're talking about. Anyways what's this got to do with the hall of fame.lol maybe their influence in occult rock or something.
May the Coven get their place in their return to resurrection after all these years at last.The female beast has resurrected. maybe the recognition they never received will be theris now in a different world then it was 30 years ago with all the censorship going on in those days
I don't want to hog up the sight so Thanx again for the coven ifo, and i'm glad none of this turned into a debate like the post i read before i posting my post. Mr Chicago. bye

Posted by Frank on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 12:36pm


Yes I am a HUGE fan of Coven, as I posted previously, Coven was a household name for me. And yes its funny about Disney, who.. although did sneak Occult related images and what not into their films, almost 10 yrs after the Blood on the Snow video, they had a film called " The Black Cauldron." it did not get released until the mid or late 90's because of its Occult theme.

You yourself said you researched a little on Coven and found several " coincidences " from Coven to Sabbath.. which no one is taking anything from Sabbath, they were a great band in their rite.. I myself am a fan of them also. the first four albums and the last with Ozzy Never Say Die! the middle albums I tend to stay away from.

You have many many many people and many books that start at the beginning of this genere of music.. and cite Coven as the Beginning Pioneer Band of this style... and I will quote M.Vagarus when I say this. " They Started this style, anyone who follows is direct influnce. " from the late 60s to today, this style of music continues to grow and grow more. Coven do not have to be cited as a influence.. THEY STARTED THE WHOLE GENRE.. lol.. some fact that some people can not accept.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 13:29pm


Hey Jim. I just checked out that link you posted of a black sabbath ticket for the church . That's hysterical Black Sabbath playing a church bnefit. LMAO! i never doubted it was true ,but you provided evidence for those who do. Hey a rhyme.
Where can i get a ticket i want tp praise the lord while listening to Iron Man at the same time.lol How about the song After forever.
Well i better get a time machine if i want to see that event from 1971. though they have a black sabbath cover band in chicago called war pigs that's been playing in chicago a while now. or should i say war purgis. anyway a cool band, though I"ve never seen the real sabbath before, Have you been to a coven concert?

Posted by frank on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 14:19pm


Hey it's been good conversation. Like a blast of the past revisited. My brothers are die hard sabbath fans but i gave that up in 1981 when i enetered the work world and after sabbth split up with ozzy i stuck it out with dio a while who was a good singer , then i saw the born again album with the demoic baby cover on their album, and i was like the DJs who said they wouldn't play sabbath in the 70s because they went to far. that born again album cover was to far for me even if sabbath wasn't real satanist. So i probably could never handle coven who weere real satanist. i remeber the album cover with JInx laying there naked with skul at her groin in the ritual settings as a kid. Their first album. Geesh They seem really beyong anything i had seen back then.
only reason i came across them now was curiosity of what that album was when i searched the net recently. Their album what was it destory minds and reap souls. Whew! i beleive it. that stuff is deep. To deep for me. Would probably destroy my mind.lol
I remeber reading a similiar thing about alesiter crowleys girlfriends or was it wives that they had been locked uop in mental institutions after a while from hanging with the beast Crowley. Myth or not i don't know.Though i have it book ,read some on the stuff. but the darkside is not my side.lol May the force be with you FRank.lol
darth vader he cometh. I've read some on helena blatvatsky, aleister crowley , and prophecies ect.. I see the influence of anciet knowledge of the masons, egytions ect in the influence of bands like coven in the occult. well. i'm getting off track. see ya.

Posted by frank on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 14:47pm


Ive seen Sabbath during the Ozzfest fest.
Sadly I have never seen Coven live, My father and Mother got to.. but I didnt. I would to be able to find footage of a Coven show circa 69 - 71. The Live Jesus on the Cross, at the end of the show, Coven would play their version of Procal Harum's Repent Walpurgis, Jinx cites some of the black mass, the jesus comes off the cross and inverts it.. I would LOVE to see this...and the reaction of the audience. But they do have live music on the Metal Goth Queen out of the Vault.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 14:52pm


woa sorry to hear you didn't see the band you like so much,. i never seen saabbath either, but i really don't care to anymore. had plenty opportunities,but i realized that i like the dark side less these days.lol My interest is more into learning then music anymore. maybe if the coven tour you"ll see them at last.I don't even know if they are all the original members or not now. As i said i just recent read up on them. and i did stumble across some other covens that we're not the origial coven.i always look for the original, so when i seen the sabbath similarities to coven i have to admit That Sabbaths managers most likely coveted lol coven and copied their image into sabbath. Not that i really care, because i stoped listening to sabbth a long time ago,but my brothers still do.

Posted by frank on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 15:22pm


All of the Original members were at the reunion except for Chris Neilsen guitar player.. I heard that the band are dying to tour again.. and I hope so, Also Jinx is writing a book, Cant wait to get my hands on that, The stories that woman has to tell..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy~ on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 16:17pm


That sounds good. If she writes a book i bet you're right, it'll be something to read. FRom listening to Jinx interview on her sight it was amazing . great stories about Morrison, sabbath coven manson ect... She almost represents a whole generation of the 60s herself.i think i'd read that book. I'll be looking for it when it comes out. probably be lots of pics in it also.

i always liked the 1960s so i would be intersted in that read. thanx for the info.

Posted by frank on Monday, 12.29.08 @ 16:41pm


I was browsing youtube myself a little the other day, and some today, and reading some of the comments people are leaving on Coven's music that has been uploaded have been very very positive.. seems they are getting back in demand.

Posted by ~St.Jimmy~ on Tuesday, 12.30.08 @ 13:05pm


tha's cool. have you heard their new album, or cd rather. Get with the times Frank They don't make albums today.thye seem kind of like a noverlty act today after regrouping after so long. i'l have to check out their sights some more and see what's up.

Posted by frank on Tuesday, 12.30.08 @ 17:17pm


Actually yes, I own it, its well worth the buy trust me.. The Coven myspace has the Intro and Black Swan on the player.
Some of my favorites from that album are:
Black Swan ( of Course )
Midnight Man
Heart to Heart
Live Wire
Out of the Rain.
When everything gets sorted, there will be a 40 years of hell Limited Edition set, that I got to get my hands on also.

you can find the albums and other Coven merch. here:
http://www.cafepress.com/JinxCoven.239556791

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Wednesday, 12.31.08 @ 11:52am


oh thanxs for the link. lots of coven stuff there. They definitely seem like a first when it comes to this kind of image in music. To be honest it kinda freaks me out that a band this occultic ever got away with it.lol I may have to check out their stuff sometime, and appreciate the links and info on their stuff you posted. FAns like you are the ones that keep bands going.

Posted by frank on Thursday, 01.1.09 @ 14:00pm


Thank you Frank, and no problem. Music is one of my passions, its a drive.. even though I do get considered by some a groupie, which is not the case. Music of all forms is art in its highest and rarest form, the blood, sweat and tears that is put into each album... song lyric.. means a lot to me. I am there to support the bands, and people I have come to know and very close to. I am there for the music, its a gift thats given to us.

In all honestly Frank, yes Coven were a band of the Occult in its highest form.. BUT do not let that subdue you to not explore their music.. because this band made really great music. Coven II ( or the white out album ) holds a special meaning for me.. My father before he passed, requested Nightengale played at his funeral.. its a really great song..If you do explore their music futher, I think you will be satisfied.

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 01.1.09 @ 23:06pm


SORRY ABOUT YOUR FATHER. I GUESS YOU TWO SHARED SOMETHING IN COMMON. tHE MUSIC. hOPE YOU GET TO SEE THEM LIVE .mAYBE YOU WERE TO YOUNG TO SEE THEM BEFORE OR MAYBE NOT. aLSO i ASSUMED YOU WERE A GUY , BUT NOT SURE ANYMORE IF YOU SAID OTHERS CONSIDERED YOU A GROUPIE. aNYWAYS ENJOYED THE CHATS HERE. wAS THE FIRST DISCUSSION ROOM POST I MADE ON COMPUTERS. i USE TO BE ON WEB TV.LOTS OF FUN. gOOD NIGHT.

Posted by FRANK on Friday, 01.2.09 @ 16:02pm


Hello again.I wanted to comment on the fact I have been to many other bands here at this Hall site and noticed COVEN has HUNDREDS more comments than anyone.Why is that?

HORNS UP to COVEN who introduced this Sign of the Horns to ROCK.

Diamond Lil XXX

Posted by lilith on Monday, 01.5.09 @ 12:14pm


jimmy probably knows. He seems to know all there is to coven. I just stumbled across them recently , and somehow i found this site while browsing coven links.i assume they are starting fresh, and maybe the old controversies are coming back, or new ones.lol anyways seems like whereever there has been controversy in music there has been fame to go along with it. there was a lot of post in here, and i was a little intimidated seeing all the post. well don't know why i keep posting,. i guess it was kind of fun. have a good one lillith. jimmy seems to have taken leave of abscene.

Posted by frank on Tuesday, 01.6.09 @ 06:12am


Controversy has always followed Coven. And there is more history there than is known, it just takes deep digging..

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Saturday, 01.10.09 @ 14:04pm


NO, LUKE I AM YOUR FATHER

Posted by S.R on Saturday, 01.10.09 @ 17:30pm


Bathory,Rainbow,Cheap Trick,and Ted Nugent need to get in before these guys.

Posted by S.R on Saturday, 02.21.09 @ 13:09pm


And The Monkees, Tiny Tim, eh?

Posted by ~ St. Jimmy ~ on Thursday, 03.5.09 @ 21:50pm


I saw you vote for Coven, you want to talk about them?


Note: emails will not be visible or used in any way but are required. Please keep comments relevant to the topic. Any comment deemed inapproporiate or offensive may be edited and or deleted Basically, this sums up our policy. NO HTML codse is allowed.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 03.26.09 @ 05:24am


Sure lets talk about Coven.

Posted by S.R on Saturday, 03.28.09 @ 02:14am


Let's never talk about them again.

If a WWE wrestler is wearing their T-shirt, then that says it all for me.

No!

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 04.20.09 @ 08:19am


Well if a WWE wrestler is wearing a t-shirt of a band, then what is wrong with that? at least they are sporting some form of style other than neon spandex pants. He must obviously be a fan of the band. Just because this band is not your " bag" does not mean that other people do not find them well worth appreciating. I remember when I first heard the Witchcraft album, I was very intrigued by it's tales of witchcraft, and gothic mystery.

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 04.20.09 @ 17:02pm


Let's never talk about them again.

If a WWE wrestler is wearing their T-shirt, then that says it all for me.

No!

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 04.20.09 @ 08:19am
--------------------------------------------------
I'm shocked!

You're not a fan of the highly accomplished technical artistry of the pro wrestler?

HULKAMANIA LIVES, BABY!!!



Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 04.22.09 @ 17:43pm


Getting back to the music side of Coven-

One of the first "blast beats", if not the very first in rock music, came from Coven drummer Steve Ross on Coven's "Dignitaries of Hell" from their first album "Witchcraft" in 1969.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 05.30.09 @ 14:40pm


I'm curious why this band caused such a stir. I came to this site the day the Coven thing stopped, so basically this is what I have to say:
1. Coven is not a heavy metal band: Blue Cheer, Steppenwolf, and Iron Butterfly all have cases to be made about being some of the first metal bands because they had the loud guitar. Coven lacked heavy instruments. They might have influenced several metal figures like King Diamond and Cradle of Filth, but lots of metal bands have had outside influences.
2. Ozzy did not get his name from Coven: The Magic Lanterns had a bass player called Oz Osbourne and they formed in 1962.
3. Coven were not the only occult band: There was an occult progressive-rock band called Black Widow who are most famous for thier cult hit "Come to the Sabbat"(that must also have influenced King Diamond because Mercyful fate had a song called "Come to the Sabbath" only a one letter difference) use to pretend to sacrifice a women every night and also have satanic song themes.
4. Metal is not satanic: The genre has sadly been miscast due to the Norwegian black metal church burning which have more to do with the fact that Noregians are freakin' nuts! Alice Cooper once said metal is like halloween in the film Metal: A Headbanger's Journey(good film, but Sam Dunn screwed up the metal histroy chart). Notice at Coven shows did that guy on the cross actually die? No, that's because it's fake. There are no boogie men in metal.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 05.31.09 @ 21:39pm


5. Black Sabbath did not get inspired by Coven to write thier title song: There was an old Italian horror film called Black Sabbath(1963) featuring Boris Karloff.
6. No one can claim inventing the "malocchio": Cavemen most likely invented it and then it became part of superstition. It is mentioned in Bram Stoker's Dracula(1897). It's even used in baseball.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 06.1.09 @ 13:29pm


Dear Dude Man:

Your research here is NOT correct.Coven do not claim to be metal.Though several songs on their 1969 album begin to get very close as "Dignitaries of Hell", especially Jinx's vocals and the instruments in the bridge.

They are in fact though called the "seeds of heavy metal" in several books.

And Coven WAS the first OCCULT band, dating back before Black Widow and ALL others.

And Tony Iommi did have a Coven album when it came out.

And Coven do NOT claim to have "invented" the "Sign of the Horns", (not a malocchio as you write, look it up, not quite the same thing.)

What Coven did do FIRST as a band was introduce the "Hand Sign" to pop culture and music, on stage in 1968 and on their 1969 album, and all others after that.Jinx actually learned it from her family, members of Secret Societies as a young child.

Hailz

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 06.3.09 @ 18:44pm


I didn't say Black Widow came first. I said Coven were not the only occult band of the time. Also Widow's album Sacrifice made the British Top 40(at #32 to be specific), so it's more likely that they brought demonic lyrics more mainstream.

Next, Coven's first album was released after metal had already been established with the album releases of Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, and Steppenwolf in 1968. And I believe Jinx having a solo album called "Goth Metal Queen" is claiming to be metal, which is false. Even on Coven's wikipedia page they are listed as psychedelic rock. The few Coven songs I have listened to("Black Sabbath", "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", "Blood on Snow",etc.) all sound like a scarier Jefferson Airplane. The guitar work on "Dignities of Hell" sounds psychedelic after the first 30 seconds "do-do-dos".

Then, since I obviously was not here when this Coven conversation was going on and sorry if you already posted it, but can I have a source for Tony Iommi owning a Coven album.

The "malcchio" is basically just what Italians call the "horns". Used to give or take back the "evil eye". Also, I do believe Dracula counts as pop culture, so Coven are not the first in that department. And on "Yellow Submarine" Lennon's tumb is down not making it the love sign. Coven might have been the first to do it live though.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.3.09 @ 20:55pm


Did you ever see a photo of John Lennon doing the "Sign of the Horns?" You are referring to a cartoon that the Beatles had nothing to do with the animation or the cartoonists.

Coven's first album in 1969 was widely promoted in the U.S and Europe and they were popular with the English bands. Starting in 1968 they played with a lot of English bands including the Yardbirds, Deep Purple, the Who, Pink Floyd, Faces, etc.

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 06.3.09 @ 23:10pm


Yes, I have seen the cartoon and it features the "horns" as you call it. Regardless if the Beatles had anything to do with the sign itself.

Also, I believe Robert Johnson gets the nod for first lyricaly evil song. Let's not forget that "Cross Road Blues" came out in 1937.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 06.4.09 @ 05:16am


There were many songs that contained devilish themes way before Robert Johnson, as "diabolis in musica," in the 6th century.

Coven NEVER claimed to be the first to write an occult themed song.But they were the first Occult themed band.What Coven did do first was record the first Black Mass, which makes them historically important.

And for the Record:In 1970, Rolling Stone Magazine called Black Sabbath-"England's answer to Coven."

And if you are getting your info from Wikipedia, remember, it is not even close to a definitive reference.

Hailz

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 06.4.09 @ 07:09am


I'm talking in terms of popular music of the last few decades, Robert Johnson was one of the earliest.

Only in the lyrics were thier similarities between Sabbath and Coven. Sabbath had the loud downed tuned guitar. Meanwhile Coven had more in common musically with psychedelia acts.

Also, you left out a key part of that album review: for the majority of it Bangs compares Sabbath to Cream. That's because Cream was the loudest thing of the time, so in terms of sound that was the main comparison.

And I still have not gotten my source, yet for Tony Iommi owning a Coven album. So can I have my definitive reference please?

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 06.4.09 @ 13:13pm


Mike "Oz" Osbourne as listed, was only photographed as a last minute member of the "put together Mickey Most" pop group Magic Lanterns in 1968.Never played on the album.

Iommi and Butler had the album according to an ex-Sab roadie.Saw it on the lead singer's facebook or myspace.

Posted by Lilith on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 11:50am


Regardless if he played on it, that was "Oz" before Coven or Ozzy. And it seems more likely that the other groups got the name "Oz" from his name.

Sorry, I still need you to type out the exact place to look so I can check the source please.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 14:02pm


Dude Man.. I do not know where you got your info. But before they became Black Widow, they were known as Pesky Gee! A psychdelic band.. in 1970 they followed Coven with the satanic album Sacrifice. Coven's first album was released in 1969. Funny. the Sabbath boys cant keep a story straight. Infact its very possible that Sabbath came to the states Prior to touring here officially. Susan Atkins mentions in her book, Child of Satan.Child of God Published in 1977.that she met the lead singer of Black Sabbath when she was still doing things with the Church of Satan.And the lead singer met Charlie also. This would have to be before The Manson Family was arrested. And yes they could have seen Coven live. Ozzy had a well known fancy with the Manson Family. Ozzy claims that he got the nick name from his father. .From Sue Crawfords book.. Ozzy. and you are mistaken on the Lester Bangs piece. He never compared them to Cream. He said from the same place as cream.. something to that effect. FACT: Geezer has admitted numberous times about his fancy for " Black Witchcraft " . The only way he could obtain a black mass was on the Coven album. FACT. Coven had their version of Walpurgis they ended every show with.. FACT. Sabbath also had a track called Walpurgis.. preformed with the original lyrics BEFORE Warner ( Their american label ) made them change it.. It became War Pigs..

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 17:57pm


And FACT. you are wrong about the Malocchio.. it has NO hand gesture of the sign of the horns. the ONLY hand gesture it has is the sign of the cross over the person whom has the Evil Eye.. Being that is what Malocchio means.
as seen here.. A Italian woman DOING the Malocchio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGy0SitrK-o

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 17:59pm


And ANOTHER thing you are dead wrong about..
Jinx never said that Metal Goth Queen was a solo project or Album.. Jinx only released 2 solo projects.
1.One Tin Soldier.. she asked Coven be listed
2. Drive me Crazy ( Released on Buddah Records ) bda-502-n Catalog number..
Now do you want to get into more myth vs. FACT concerning Sabbath and Coven.. or Sabbath alone ?
And I personally see no reponsibility that lies in the hands of Lilith its called Research.. not hard to do.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 18:11pm


Once again, I said Widow did not come first. I said Coven were not the only occult band of the time and that Widow most likely brought darker lyrics more mainstream(not incredibly mainstream, but they did have a top 40 album).

Also, I was not asking for that much. I just wanted to see proof of Sabbath owning a Coven record.

On VH1's documentary Heavy: The Story of Metal Geezer said Ozzy had brought him an old book in Latin about black magic subjects. That night he said he say some dark creature, which made Ozzy come up with the lyrics to "Black Sabbath". Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaxUMWIlKoI&feature=related

I was wrong about the "malocchio" I admit it.

You are terribly wrong about the Cream comparision. Here's a direct quote from the review, "Vocals are sparse, most of the album being filled with plodding bass lines over which the lead guitar dribbles wooden Claptonisms from the master's tiredest Cream days". Next time read the whole review.

Lyrically Sabbath and Coven are similar, but musically Coven wasn't heavy. Sabbath was one of the first heavy metal bands and Coven was just a Satanic psychedelic rock band that influenced several metal bands.



Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 19:00pm


Also, I doubt Coven made very much to do with Iommi losing his finger tips, using the diminished fifth, and creating that loud down-tuned sound which prove to be one of the most influencial sounds in heavy metal music.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 19:39pm


Funny, In Ozzy by Sue Crawford.. the image never happened, ALL Band Members had the same dream throughout the week. And Ozzy instructed his father to make the Crucifixes.. In Contradiction to that.. Tony Iommi said in Black Sabbath Story.. They always had the cross's. Then Geezer Said in Black Sabbath the Ozzy Years book, with Robert V. Conte, with CJ Henderson.. they got involved with Alec Sanders ( Head witch of england ) the Band refused to play at Stonehenge at Walpurgis.. and A curse was placed on them by Alec.. Hmmm And In Contradiction to Tomy Iommi.. He was just out of Mythology when He joined Jethro Tull, as seen in The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. He is not wearing his cross when playing opening number with Tull.. A Song For Jeffery, Since he said that he was with Earth / Sabbath.. From the time production began on the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus..proves Tony's claim false. Earth Had not been formed yet. He was fresh out of Mythology. Do I need to Continue..?
Funny yet again you are wrong on said Lester Bangs piece.. Do I need to upload and post it?
Again False. Coven were not psychedelic.. There were bands from the " Psychedelic 60's that were not as such " Blue Cheer, Jethro Tull, Led Zeppelin, Grand Funk Railroad, COVEN.. Need I continue?
NO ONE has claimed Coven as heavy metal, But THE SEEDS of Metal.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 20:03pm


And its rather silly to even mention Coven and Tony's unfortunate accident.. even in trying to make a point.
http://tinypic.com/r/4jrk8i/5

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 20:10pm


I have read the whole review for Sabbath's first album on rolling stone's website and let me tell you there are a hell of a lot more Cream referce's in it. Cream is mention four times on the bottom paragraph for Sabbath's review. So wrong again A.R. Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/blacksabbath/albums/album/321686/review/5945165/black_sabbath

Heavy Metal had already been invented and Coven is psychedelic! A plant can't be a seed when it's already a growing tree. The only thing they have in common with heavy metal is the lyrics. Change the lyrics to half thier songs to be about dancing flowers and pretty colors and you would see the connection with Big Brother and the Holding Company and Jefferson Airplane. Sabbath wrote hippie lyrics("Fairies Wear Boots", "Sweet Leaf") and Ozzy dressed like one on stage, but the music was always heavy. And before Sabbath bands like Steppenwolf, Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, and Budgie(didn't release an album until '71 but formed in '67) had already laid the ground work for the genre. Coven were psychedelic.

As far as those non-psychedelic acts you mention this is where I would put them. Jethro Tull, they hated hippies and were a progressive-rock group, Grand Funk, classic hard rock group, Blue Cheer, one of the first metal bands that also influenced later stoner rock, and Led Zeppelin, one of the first metal bands and showed a metal band could pay the blues and acoustic songs.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 20:48pm


Im sorry there dude man.. but none of that is shown from the piece that I posted a link to. ROFLAMO I dont know where you got the " Change the lyrics to half thier songs to be about dancing flowers and pretty colors and you would see the connection with Big Brother and the Holding Company and Jefferson Airplane." Apparently you have not heard the first album. Sorry Wrong yet again.. and wrong again.. Sabbath were Anti Hippie.. really where do you get your information? and Iron Butterfly is also considered psychedelic just so you know.
LOL at you and the thought of Coven being psychedelic.. How wrong you are.. Really.. Where do you get your information?

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 20:55pm


Source of information for you and sabbath being anti hippie.. The Black Sabbath Story Vol 1. 1970-1978.
Ozzy Osbourne.. Behind the Music.. Vh1.
Might want to get your information correct.. Again.. Lester Bangs CONFIRMED that Sabbath was England's answer to Coven.. In the Short piece I posted.. and the one you posted..

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 21:03pm



Dude Man: "Also, you left out a key part of that album review: for the majority of it Bangs compares Sabbath to Cream. That's because Cream was the loudest thing of the time, so in terms of sound that was the main comparison."


Dude Man: "You are terribly wrong about the Cream comparision. Here's a direct quote from the review, "Vocals are sparse, most of the album being filled with plodding bass lines over which the lead guitar dribbles wooden Claptonisms from the master's tiredest Cream days". Next time read the whole review."

This does NOT sound like a good Black Sabbath comparison to Cream or a loud comparison as you say.Sounds like a horrible review of Sabbath.

I was only pointing out the timeline per Rolling Stone Magazine as a good source that Coven was known of WAY BEFORE Black Sabbath's debut.

Coven hated the hippie psychedelic scene.One show they did had liquid lights and hippie movies and Jinx refused to play until they found some fire footage and only played that behind the band.Coven was a Heavy Occult Band.

Posted by Lilith on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 21:38pm


First Off, I have listened to as much of thier first album as much as Youtube and Allmusic Guide would provide("Satnic Mass" is proto-Spinal Tap hilarious.) Also, you have no knowledge of heavy music. The guitar has to LOUD, vocals LOUD, bass LOUD, drums LOUD. Coven are non of these things. Coven is basically Jefferson Airplane on bad acid.

Also, did you even try to type my rolling stone link? Cream is mentioned 4 freakin' times, Coven once and in my opinion only on lyrics.

Sabbath as much as I hate to say it were hippies. Ozzy putting up the peace sign on stage , wrote about drugs and the war openly, and Ozzy even wore frilly white suits on stage.

Iron Butterfly did put out a lot of psychedelic poppy songs that were far from metal("Most Anything That You Want", "Possession"), but also included some of the heaviest songs of the time("In-a-Gadda-da-Vida", "Are you Happy?", "Iron Butterfly Theme"). And even Martin Popoff included "In-a-Gadda-da-Vida" in his compliation, the Heavy Metal Box.

Honestly, I don't even think you have heard a Coven song. COVEN IS NOT HEAVY IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM. It's just the lyrics that have you thinking they are heavy, so in other words EPIC FAIL.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 22:00pm


NO ONE SAID COVEN WERE HEAVY METAL... THE SEEDS WERE PLANTED...MANY FOLLOWED even Sabbath.. what part of this do you NOT understand? You think Richard Nixon was a Hippie for doing the peace sign too? HOW badly mis informed you are.. the songs you named. Fairies wear Boots.. was about a dream Ozzy had, Sweet leaf HAD NO DRUG reference to it at all.. it was about a pack of cigs that Geezer picked up.. IF you would have researched it. you would have known that.. that is how clueless you really are. You in turn are the biggest FAIL.. if you seriously think Sabbath were Hippies.. LOL!!! A It is YOU that has only heard what the internet provided to you.. It is YOU that Fails at proper research.. How can anyone take anything you have to say seriously?

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 22:11pm


And trust me, I would rather take the words of Ozzy and Geezer over yours any day with your lack of knowledge and research.. And your poor attempts to even Debate..

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 22:35pm


No one says Coven were Heavy Metal.

But they were THE FIRST Heavy Occult Rock Band.Check out the book "Lords of Chaos".

Black Widow came out in 1970 as did Black Sabbath.Coven's first album was out 1969.Your Heavy Metal argument just is a waste of time.

Posted by Lilith on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 22:59pm


I just listened to Black Sabbath's first single again, a remake first released and written by Crow in the states, "Evil Woman".That recording was NOT what you call Heavy Metal.It sounds like the same Hard Rock stuff of 1970, a bad copy of Cream, but NOT near as HEAVY as alot of other recordings at the time.The guitar is definitely NOT heavy.The ONLY thing "HEAVY" about these releases at the time were the references on the cover and lyrics and the name "Black Sabbath" that gave the illusion of being Occult.Give it a listen again.

Posted by Lilith on Friday, 06.5.09 @ 23:58pm


If you have an erection for over 4 hours-Seek medical help.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 00:01am


One, you people keep saying that this band is, "the seeds of heavy metal". I think for one to be give birth to the genre you have have to play the music. Besides, does that make the Jimi Hendrix Experience and Cream seeds? If anything they were louder than Coven and influenced more bands of the genre. That doesn't make them seeds.

Of course Sabbath did some songs that were not heavy. "Planet Caravan" was far from metal, but during that time no band was heavy all the time. And there are drug refernces in "Sweet Leaf", "Come on, try it out." ",for your surprise you introduced me, to my mind". Also, Black Sabbath did on occassion dress in hippie like clothes. Source: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0voejU7y9bk/SRiQ8RAuFII/AAAAAAAACuE/Lj25rBFPunI/s400/black+sabbath.jpg

Also, Lilth any reason you had to make a penis joke during a serious discussion?

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 08:37am


Dude Man.
Fact: Coven had no other band to draw influences from, The Who, The Yard Birds, Cream, Pink Floyd, Jimi Hendrix, None of the bands of that era were Covering themes that Coven were.. They Had no where to draw influences from.. MAKING THEM THE FIRST. ( Seed is Planted ) And in 1970 MANY followed.. ( It Grew )
I Never have seen Sabbath dressed as Hippies. and they specifically SAID they were against the peace and love generation, They wanted to bring " Real Life , The Other side of life in their music " Only Later Did the band Incorp Peace theme in music.. " Children of the Grave" from the Follow up to Paranoid " Master of Reality " This is because Ozzy Insisted that the band leave the Occult behind them. Sources.. Ozzy Knows Best by Chris Nickerson, AND Sue Crawford.. Ozzy.My sources still stand they were anti hippie.. Ill take their word over it. Black Sabbath Story vol 1. 1970 - 1978 and Ozzy Osbourne Behind the Music- vh1.
Again, Geezer specifically said the song Sweet Leaf is about a pack of cigs .. Clove Cigs to be exact.. that he had picked up.
And FYI that Picture is typical 1970's clothes. Nothing Hippie about it.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 11:11am


"Sweet Leaf" is about drugS. Source: http://www.ozzy.net/faq/
Skip to the part about Master of Reality to find it.

1970 was not year one for metal. Led Zepplin released an album in 1969 and Judas Priest formed that year, before that in 1968 Iron Butterfly, Blue Cheer, and Iron Butterfly had released albums, Budgie formed in 1967, and Blue Cheer formed in 1966.

Coven are not any seed.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 12:11pm


Also, Alice Cooper released his first album in 1969.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 12:58pm


Which reminds me, here's Alice Cooper laughing at Satanism in Headbanger's Journey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XE4Cv5tBlg

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 13:12pm


Funny, In the Last Supper DVD Geezer specifically says what I mention.. Yet again another Contradiction from the Sab's. But I stick to Geezer's story over Ozzy's any day.
FACT. Yet Again. Coven had NO ONE to draw influence from NO ONE COVERED the Themes and Lyrics that Coven did.. FACT they were the FIRST.. That makes them the SEED.. ONE YEAR Later Bands Followed..
Alice Coopers first albums are not even considered HEAVY Metal.
Fact: Alice Cooper can Laugh all he wishes.. He preformed at the Dark Arts Festive in 1969.
Fact: Alice Cooper got his name from a deceased witch from a ouija board reading.
Fact: Alice Cooper were scared of Coven.. Their stage show was FAR more Shocking that what at that time.. Glam Alice Cooper could ever dream of.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 13:53pm


For the last time metal is not satanic! It's a bunch of kids in costumes trying to be scary. First time I heard Venom it scared the pants off me. Now looking I was scared of Disney's haunted mansion too. Now I laugh it off.

And for the fifth bagillionth time(yes I just made up a number) Coven are no "seed". The precursors of the genre were LOUD. Heavy metal is about the sound. Coven was never loud and never had they kind of heavy metal thunder.

Speaking of sound it is the reason why Alice will never in my book be considered glam. Alice's first two albums(Pretties for You, Easy Action) have an experimental flow to them that sometimes borders on acid rock, but they do have some glimps of early heavy metal too. And then the classic Love it to Death and Schools Out type albums came out that were pure metal. And on any of those early albums they never sounded glam. Glam rock had a sound, one that was well... glamorous. Alice didn't sound like the Sweet, Gary Glitter, and company. And lets face it he was never Marc Bolan pretty.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 14:49pm


Dudeman, I do not see your point in trying to debate this.. No one has said for the hundredth time..Coven were metal. The Seeds were planted with the themes, and lyrics, that MANY MANY Followed afterwords.. How hard is it to understand? NO ONE Else dared touched the themes that Coven Did.. they could not get influence from ANY of the bands at the time.. But the Bands to follow 1970 took Influence from Coven.. Lyrically and Image wise.. Coven were the FIRST..

Dude, seriously educate yourself.. Books such as Lords of Chaos, Lucifer Rising, SPECIFICALLY Start at the top of the Genere.. With Coven.. and go down. The elements Coven started, were FOLLOWED. and FYI if it were NOT for " Psychedelic Rock.. and Blues.. METAL would not Exist.. and Coven were NOT Psychedelic. My sources are Valid, rather than your small internet searches.

That is in YOUR book he is not considered GLAM his early work is infact GLAM ROCK, and on Many Glam Rock Complications. I just bought one from Buddah Records " Glam Bam, Thank you Mam. " YES Alice Cooper is on it. You Look up Coven on Wikipedia.. it says " A then GLAM Alice Cooper " you look up glam rock in general.. you get Alice Cooper. His first 2 albums produced by Frank Zappa, whom Coven were close to.. Also Alice shard a rehersal room with COVEN.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 15:01pm


And here is another FYI for you.. Sabbath were on Vertigo Records..For European releases.. Vertigo is Mercury Records Sub Label. Coven were on Mercury Records..Warner Brothers became Sabbaths America Label before Fully taking over when re releasing their albums, Which took out " Evil Woman " and replaced it with Wicked World... But if you have the Vertigo release.. as I do.. you have the album in its complete form..
That yet again is another Tie from Coven To Sabbath. Research properly, then TRY to have a debate, not based on Claims and on your opinion.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 15:06pm


I said they are not this "seed" you keep refering too.

Also, only King Diamond, Cradle of Filth, and Fozzy(professional wrestler Chris Jericho's band) have openly admitted to being Coven fans. Every metal band sites Black Sabbath as the influence: Metallica, White Zombie, Motely Crue, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Anthrax, Iced Earth, Faith No More, Guns N' Roses, Lamb of God, Slipknot, etc. All influenced by Sabbath not Coven.

Also, half the time you don't sources. And nothing makes yours better than mine. Also, Dameon agreed with me that Alice was not glam, you were basically left alone on that. And Alice has been on a lot metal compliations than glam. He was in Decline of the Western Civilization Part 2: The Metal Years, Metal: A Headbanger's Journey, Martin Popoff's The Heavy Metal Box, We Wish You a Metal Xmas And A Headbanging New Year, etc.

And you made fun of where I was getting my information from only to be a hypocrite and use the Coven's Wikipedia page. That counts as a "small internet search".

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 15:22pm


Also Blue Oyster Cult, another one of the pioneering heavy metal bands, formed in 1967.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 15:44pm


To Dude Man AND Dameon :

Alice Cooper played with Coven many times AS A GLAM BAND in 1968-1969.Coven were doing their heavy occult theater show with the Live Crucifix that inverted onstage and doing the "Sign of the Horns" while Alice Cooper WAS doing the tranny thing.Wonder where he later GOT his shock rock ideas from?

Motely Crue (as you spell them) had Jinx design clothes like she did for her band Coven for them, as well as for Jimmy Page back in the day.Remember Jimmy's infamous dragon pants?

I see alot of seeds blowing around Coven.You need to read more.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 16:38pm


Alice ripped apart babies, had his head chopped, hung himself, wore the most disgusting make-up in history, spit on people, fought monsters, cut himself with swords, sung about intercourse with the dead, and many other things.

Coven had a guy on cross and satanic lyrics. Alice didn't have those, so I don't think you can say he ripped them off.

Also, sorry to make you go out of your way for this, but can I please have a source for Jinx making the clothes?

P.S. Thanks for checking my spelling.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 17:00pm


Dude Man, Alice Did NOT incoporate ANY of his well known theatrics in his early shows, AS Lilith put it, He was Doing the Tranny thing. Plain and Simple.
Dude Man, Research it.. Jinx had Jinx Jewels.. MANY people wore her clothing and designs, Motley Crue, Jimmy Page, ( he LOVED Coven's stage clothes ) Heather Locklear, Madonna.. DO I NEED TO CONTINUE?

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 17:08pm


and FYI Dude Man, Jimmy Page when he was with the Yardbirds Toured with Coven.. THAT is where Jimmy Saw Coven's Stage clothes.. Research for the facts.
ALL the British bands were VERY Familiar with Coven.. Even your Black Sabbath.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 17:12pm


Jeez Dude you are making this too easy.

AFTER shows with Coven in 68-69, Zappa thought Coven was so new and HEAVY that he brought them to LA and signed them to his mgmt. co. where Alice also was.(Did you EVER see Zappas"200 Motels" or hear "Just another Band from LA"?????? There is a DEVIL in the animation saying,"Coven are HEAVY").Up to that point ALICE WAS GLAM.

AFTER Alice left Frank's stable of Stars in the early 70's:

Alice ripped apart babies(Coven 1969 Mass talks about EATING BABIES), had his head chopped, hung himself,(Coven 1968 had a noose ONSTAGE), wore the most disgusting make-up in history,(Coven wore pale face and dark eye makeup in 1968) spit on people, fought monsters, cut himself with swords,(Coven had swords onstage AND SKULLS) sung about intercourse with the dead,(Jeez Coven did that all the time) and many other things.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 17:20pm


P.S. I forgot-

Coven is VERY FAMOUS for signing ALL their record and mgmt. contracts each in their own blood.

(Starting in 1968)

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 17:37pm


Yes, A.R. I'm an admitted die hard Sabbath fan, but Sabbath were heavy, Coven not so much. Frank Zappa(R.I.P.) never played heavy metal music, so I don't think he would really know what heavy is. I'm sticking with my opinion that Coven are a psychedelic shock-rock band.

Also, Screamin' Jay Hawkins, Screaming Lord Sutch, and Arthur Brown(yes I know this has been mentioned before) were the first generation of shock-rockers(even though by today's standards they're kittie shows).

Alice has influenced countless bands/people: White Zombie, Marilyn Manson, Johnny "Rotten" Lydon of the Sex Pistols, Megadeth, etc. and his fans like Bob Dylan. Coven like I said not that many names. Also, never glam. Glam means glamorous. And he never sounded like the T.Rex, Sweet, and Slade. Close your eyes and listen to the music, the Alice Cooper band does not sound like those bands.

People have bought clothes from Jinx, I looked up Jinx Jewels, but that doesn't count as musical influence.

And I brought up Tony injury before because that was the main event that shaped the Sabbath sound. Coven couldn't touch Sabbath with the volume, which is what heavy metal(and this seed you keep refering to) are about. It's not about lyrics, Coven's music WASN'T LOUD.

I wouldn't use the term famous with Coven(some of my favorite bands aren't well known either like Budgie and Captain Beyond) because the mainstream only knows them for Jinx's "One Tin Soldier". And KISS had a comic in blood, so I think that tops signing your signature with it.

I can tell this band does have quite a fan following and I'm impressed, so far. Still, Coven are no heavy metal "seed".

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 19:46pm


Check out the Coven group pic from 1971 on the back of their CD.A wall of Marshall Stacks.Nothing else.

That's says loud to me.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 20:08pm


And I just checked their site again, in the 1968 pic of their organ player, he has 3 Marshall stacks for his Hammond. I would have loved to had heard their Coven music at that show.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 20:23pm


Dude Man, Coven predated KISS by signing their name in blood..And here is another KISS fact for you.. Coven were approached FIRST to do the make up before Kiss... Coven declined.. Source : Kisstory.
And yet again, you compare British Glam to American Glam.. going to have a total different look and sound. Early Alice Cooper is DEF. Glam Rock. Early stage shows ( 68-70 ) Did NOT incorporate ANY of the theatrics he is known for.. it was Tranny Rock.. Plain and simple.

Again that is your opinion they are not the seed.. I'll take the word from people who actually research their information. Another Fact for you Dude Man, The music to Coven's first album was " tuned or turned down " where Jinx's vocals were the loud, and put focus just on that.
Influence spreads like a Virus.. from Hair and Make up to Clothes and beyond.

Funny I don't think Tony's accident had anything to do with the sound at all.. the " sound " wasnt there in Jethro Tull.. during his stint with them.. nor was it on any Sabbath album past Vol 4.

IF any live performances of Coven surface, I'm pretty sure it would put a END to the whole Coven not heavy and such.. because the album " Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls " the music was turned down to focus on the vocals of Jinx.
And these silly Sub-Genere's need not apply.. because the official Genere's were.. Rock, Blues, Country, Jazz.. and Coven are ROCK..

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 20:45pm


I knew Coven predated KISS, I said it tops it in shock value.

No glam rock is pretty. Don't listen to wikipedia's page on glam rock. Elton John is even listed.

Sabbath Vol.4 is an incredibly heavy album. "Wheels of Confusion/The Straightener" and "Supernaut" are some ear-bleeding tunes.

Also, hair, make-up and clothes don't count as musical influence. Those are just visual influence.

And not on many songs on Coven's first album are the vocals loud. "White Witch of Rose Hall" isn't rough and gritty. The music is what really matters to heavy metal. Bottom line again: Coven= Not any precursor to the genre.

Coven are a rock band, but I will put them psychedelia and the shock rock catagory.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 21:12pm


And I hardly doubt the comic book was done in its entire form with blood. Because no one knows the full amount that was taken from the members of KISS. Ive never seen where the members admit to how much blood was drawn.. there were witness's yes.. but no mention.. for all we know, could be just the pricking of the fingers.. I think that Coven members slicing their wrists, blood dripping everwhere..and signing their names in blood, while the tables and such is getting " bloody " Far more shocking.
I Do NOT rely on sources from wikipedia.. I have ( Own ) and have seen footage of Alice's Early performances.. GLAM ROCK. NOTHING shocking about it.. All he does is priss and prance around the stage. Like a Woman. tranny Rock.
Again, American Glam Rock bands Differ from those of British.. there is no need in trying to Compare the 2. Take David Bowie ( British Glam ) Lou Reed.. Totally opposite, Sound and Look, T-Rex and New York Dolls.. Again different in look and sound.. AND Encyclopedia Britannica.. even CITE early Alice Cooper as GLAM ROCK.. hmmm.. And I Do quote " The son of a preacher, Furnier formed a band with four schoolmates in Phoenix, Arizona. After moving to California in 1968, he and the band took the name Alice Cooper. Their hyperamplified club shows, influenced by British glam rock, earned them recognition as “the worst band in Los Angeles” and a contract with Frank Zappa’s Straight Records, for which they released two unsuccessful albums
before relocating to Detroit"

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 21:34pm


"Bottom line again: Coven= Not any precursor to the genre."
That again is your opinion, as I said.. I will listen to people who researched the Genere's and listed those in books.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 21:38pm


Martin Popoff, Sam Dunn, Ian Christe, and lots of other well-known heavy metal critics/voices have never listed Coven as one of the precursors to the genre. Popoff has listed pre-Sabbath bands like Blue Cheer and Iron Butterfly as early founders though.

Allmusic guide and Rolling Stone don't list Alice Cooper as glam rock.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 22:04pm


Like I said, and as Lilith said.. the " roots " are traced in the book Lords of Chaos..
Early Alice Cooper is Glam lol.. there were NO theatrics that he is famous for in any of his early performances.. as again.. its pointless to even TRY to compare British bands with American..

Also Apparently Frank Zappa did know what was " Heavy " in a interview I was reading Source:Guitar World July 2001.. He called Sabbath " The Epitom of heavy metal sickenss. "
ALSO, in reading Metal Edge Magazine ( Interview with Tony Iommi ) He claims that Earth was BEFORE Pulka Tulk Blues Band. He said NO DEMO's exist from Earth.. FALSE.. A Song for Jim, The Rebel are 2. Jim Simpson was TOLD by the band to NEVER release them.. and he says about the name Black Sabbath.." We Said, That's it, we're gonna get a name that nobody's gonna have, " and the name Black Sabbath came up.. there was NO mention of the infamous Claim they made about the movie.
Alice Cooper is listed as Glam at the sources I provided.
And Alice Cooper the Godfather of Shock Rock:" Ezrin, manager Shep Gordon and Cooper forged one of the most successful rock associations of the 1970s. Alice was a member of the "glam-rock" school of R & R, along with the Ziggy Stardust version of David Bowie, the New York Dolls and the Goat's Head Soup era Rolling Stones. "
Glam Rock vol. 1 VHS - 1988.. Alice Cooper's performances are on it.
Glam Rock: Oh! You Pretty Things
By Matthew Moyer -- Library Journal, 3/1/2009:
"his left latecomers to the party to pick over the remains and reap the riches, with Queen, Alice Cooper, Elton John, and KISS turning glam rock into stadium rock."
Rhaposdy lists Alice Cooper in the " Glam Rock " catagory.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 23:08pm


And again, I stick to what I say.. I don't care who cite Coven or not.. what matters is the books that trace the genre from it roots to what it is today.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 06.6.09 @ 23:09pm


It's not pointless to compare the American acts to the British acts. Angel and The New York Dolls could easily fit in with the English crowd. And just because you wear make-up doesn't make an artist glam. Are The Stooges glam just because on the cover of Raw Power Iggy's wearing make-up? Of course not.

As far as the Frank Zappa thing goes, everyone knows Black Sabbath was a heavy metal band. Some bands come to mind when you say the term like Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc.

Also, remember http://www.ozzy.net/faq/ in it Ozzy mentions Geezer decided to change the name of the band because of the Karloff film.

Also, in Lords of Choas Black Widow were mentioned and they were a progressive group. So right off that tells that the book is more about satanic bands, than heavy bands.

They authors I mentioned were some of heavy metals most well known critics and voices. Mean while Michael Moynihan(the co-author of Lords of Choas) has published books about Nazis. So I doubt his specialty is in heavy metal history.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 10:53am


In all sincerity, music is a freedom of expression.Why does one want to catagorize artist expression? You must be a very young person.In my day that would be a VERY Sraight, UNCOOL THING TO DO.Music, especially your precious Heavy Metal should NOT be straight..

Most bands/artists end up doing all sorts of kinds of music.Dude:Why do you insist on
putting everything in a category? What is the point? What is the importance of this?Are we robots in shelves?

Sounds like some creepy new world order in music.Very straight.Music is not about being
straight.That's not very creative and is very limiting.

Hailz

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 11:06am


I put every band into a genre because I have to know things about that band like what was thier impact on the genre?, who did they influence in that genre?, did outside genres get influenced by them?, did they create a sub-genre with in the genre?, etc.

Besides aren't you putting Coven into a genre by calling them a rock group and a "seed". Don't we put bands into genres by calling them pop. We can't just call every band a music group.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 11:54am


The only Genre's that exist back then were Blues, Rock, Country, Jazz, Classical.. Metal did not exist, nor did black metal or death metal, for example..Today, your beloved Black Sabbath fall in the Pop(ular)music. Their music is / was Received and well known, Due to radio play.. album sales. ect ect.

If you are going to Quote Ozzy, you need to research what the OTHER band members say.. I have NO respect for Mr. Osbourne, Lost that when he ripped Kerslake and Daisley off from monies due to them, by having the Drums and Bass re-recorded on the re-issues of his albums. Every Band member contradicts themselves when telling those stories. In Sue Crawford's book Ozzy.. he said it was Geezer whom came up with the Idea. In the Guitar World Magazine July 2001 I mentioned as a source..It was Tony's Idea to take the band in the direction of Darker themes, and it was HE who came up with the name Black Sabbath.. Geezer In Sue Crawford's book Says OZZY wrote the lyrics to " Black Sabbath " And if you REALLY want to get to the nit and gritty of the band name.. research what the government was doing at the time with movies.. Unlikely that they would have a Italian movie playing at those times, their main concern after the war was re-establishing the countries own movies and such.. if you do not research that.. then you go by what is sold to you.. I have.. I know the story is Bogus. And In Metal Edge Magazine I quoted from Source.. Tony say's the name just came up.. and he said Earth was BEFORE Pulka Tulk Blues Band..And in Ozzy.. and especially research when John Michael Osbourne became Ozzy.. IF he is telling the story correctly then YES he took his name from Coven's Bassist.. because at the time he says.. Coven's poster was All over England.. and Sabbath and Zeppelin were close bands.. Jammed together..Jimmy Page, being he was in the Yardbirds, already knew of Coven.. They were on the same Bills together. ALL British Bands knew Coven very well.

And FYI here is another source of Info for you on Alice Cooper being Glam Rock. .Performing Glam Rock - By Phillip Auslander.. Page 42-44 talk about Cooper, The Sweet, New York Dolls.. and Both bands you Named Angel and New York Dolls are both American Bands. Their style and sound was different from the British Bands.. and yes they were Glam Rock.

Black Widow only released 1 satanic album.. Sacrifice 1970.. after that they went rock and roll.. and then released " Return to the Sabbath " in 1998.. which is demo's and such leading UP to the Sacrifice album.. Widow opened for Sabbath during their tour.. Also Coven and Sabbath played the same bills many times... Hmmmm. Widow and Purple played on the same bills.. I have Ticket Stubs. Coven and Widow, had Important rolls in Shaping what we know as metal..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 14:03pm


And not to mention the photo Sabbath took in 1970 which is Identical to the Coven poster of 68/69 that was All over England.. the ONLY difference is Sabbath are wearing Christian Cross's where as Coven's is inverted.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 14:07pm


A.R. metal bands don't have flutes, so I doubt Widow were all that musically influencial(even though "Come to the Sabbat" has been covered by several black metal bands). Only the lyrics influenced metal. And once again the metal bands that have admitted to being Coven fans are King Diamond, Cradle of Filth, and Fozzy and that's not much. Sabbath lots of fans and followers.

I said Angel and New York Dolls were American and that they would fit in with that scene because they didn't sound all that different from the British bands, but Alice did sound different. Also, here's more books and compilations that list Alice as metal: The Encyclopedia of Heavy Metal by Daniel Bukszpan, Metal Compilation, The Best Heavy Metal in The World... Ever!

Regardless, if you respect Ozzy, that doesn't make what he says any less valid. And it doesn't matter if all the British bands knew of Coven, it matters if they were influenced by Coven, which non of those bands have said they have been.

Sabbath was usually confused with Widow by media which caused them a lot of problems, but the bands were friends. By the way Tony Martin is going to appear on Widow's new album.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 14:36pm


Those Sabbath boys cant keep a story straight.. but that is something you will have to research on your own.. Stories have changed, making them a myth, They dont even know what really happened anymore.

Jethro Tull- Prog band.. Had a flute, and had several Metal bands cite them as a influence... your point? Black Widow's albums that followed " Sacrifice " are far better. Bands and musicians from DIO to Iron Maiden and MORE have Covered Jethro Tull, and Cited them. So I am really not getting your point.

Again, MANY places and books Cite Alice Cooper as Glam Rock.. his early music was just that.. just as his stage show. You have heard of the GTO's correct? they did all of Alice's hair and Makeup in the beginning..( and the Bands ) The GTO's was a all groupie band put together by Zappa, MANY well known musicians contributed to them, Davy Jones, Rod Stewart, Jeff Beck, just to name a few.. I own that LP..

You left out Modern Band, Blood Ceremony, that is the perfect blend of Jethro Tull, Coven and Black Sabbath.. Also if you read in Lords of chaos, it goes.. Coven, Black Widow, Black Sabbath.. down the line. You should read what they say about Zeppelin and Sabbath..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 15:17pm


And if you would have researched and looked into it properly.. you would have seen Coven have been covered by bands... and samples taken from their albums.. hmmmm...

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 15:27pm


Did you just mention Jethro Tull in a discusion about heavy metal? The metal community is still resentful to Tull for that grammy. Even Ronnie James Dio said on an interview during VH1's 100 greatest hard rock songs that he disagreed about thier award and called them as metal as nothing.

Honestly, Sabbath did lots of drugs. Do you think you would remember everything after that much body abuse?

And MANY books and documentaries site Alice as metal. Another one I forgot was VH1's Heavy: the Story of Metal. And I do know the GTO's because Pamela appeared in Headbanger's Journey.

Also, you found one obsure doom metal band as the best example of Coven and Widow influence on metal... still that's not a lot of influence.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 16:13pm


And you Cite Metal: A headbangers Journey as a reliable influence? It was there that they did not question DIO on the Malocchio. that he CLAIMS he saw his grandmother do..Funny, HIS PARENTS were the ones to Immigrate to America.. not his grandmother. as I showed in the Video.. that movie is about one mans discovery through metal.. its all Biased. One Sided.

And YES I mentioned Jethro Tull in the discussion of Heavy Metal.. they are Cited as Influences.. and their songs covered by Metal Artists.. EVEN DIO. Kind of Hipocritcal eh? DIO wouldnt know metal, even if it bit him on his ass.. He DIDNT even get into METAL until his time with Sabbath. 20 years before that was doo wop and psychedelic rock and blues..

Honestly I do not believe everything that is sold to me.. I research for the facts..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 16:28pm


Coven does NOT have fans.

ONLY "Cherished Friends" of The Coven.I read an interview with Jinx and she hates the term "fans".They refuse to use it.

That's what really turned me on about the band.Totally not vain and greedy like most rockers.They are more interested in their beliefs and their art than the "music business".

The following are a few friends that played on their songs over the years-Glenn Cornick of Jethro Tull,Tommy Bolin of Deep Purple,Michael Monarch of Steppenwolf,Jean Yves Labat of Utopia.

Hailz

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 16:33pm


Psychedelic Rock to me is bands like,
The Open Mind, The Factory, Status Quo ( youtube Pictures of Matchstick Men ) Aphroditie's Child, Writing on the Wall, Iron Butterfly, Just a few off the top of my head.. Does Coven sound anything like these and others that are considered psychedelic.. NO THEY DO NOT. Does Jefferson Airplane.. NO THEY DO NOT. Do the Doors, NO THEY DO NOT.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 16:40pm


Rainbow was a heavy metal band, so Ronnie did do metal before Sabbath. Before that he was in a blueier band called Elf and before that he was in a rockabilly band called Ronnie and The Red Carpets.

I myself have problems with the movie because Sam Dunn was awful at the history chart. He put glam rock acts like Slade and Sweet in the glam metal category, Kyuss was the only real stoner metal group in the category the rest were doom, put proto-punk bands like the Stooges and the MC5 and blues rock bands like Cream and Mountain in the early metal category, while ignoring Iron Butterfly, Steppenwolf and Budgie, listed Blue Oyster Cult and AC/DC as hard rock even though they are heavy metal pioneers, listed Rush as a metal band, but the film itself itn't that bad. And he did try his best to denounce the sterotypes of metal being sexist and evil.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 16:55pm


LOL where do you get Rainbow as a metal band.. Hard Rock if anything..AS they are listed.. Hard Rock. and Rock depending on where you look for them.. Rhapsody has them listed as rock / hard rock. not metal. You Left off Ronnie and the Red Caps, Ronnie and the Prophets.

The Industry was very sexist towards Jinx.. She was not allowed to speak in English at venues, only Latin, if she did, the band was hauled to the police dept. Conspiracy to Intice a Riot, I believe it was.. They said she was to pretty to front a Band.. she would suit more as a actor. The list is endless with Coven.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 17:08pm


Ronnie Dio was doing doo wop, then he was in the Elves when Coven was doing their Black Mass heavy shows.

You want loud?

Get the first Coven record and play it real loud.It is some of the most haunting, eerie and bangin music I have ever heard.

And on the other albums, there is real great Chicago blues, classical, pop, a little country and even jazz.

I really think Coven was not into genres. Just into music.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 17:38pm


And to add this to Lilith's post.. if you have surround sound, or the multi channel sound control, switch it over to Stadium, Concert Hall, or many of the other live channel modes.. it Gives the Idea of what the Band sounded like live.. and I have to say.. they are LOUD. Jinx's vocals feel like your ears are about to bleed. IF you put Sabbath's first album on one of those modes.. its not as Loud as Coven.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 17:50pm


During Rainbow's first era they were a metal band. During the Bonnet and Lynn Turner years they went into a more commercial direction. "Stargazer", "Kill the King", and "Man on the Silver Mountain" were definitive metal songs. Also, featuring Ritchie Blackmore from one of the pioneering metal bands, Deep Purple. Allmusic guide and wikipedia list them as hard rock/heavy metal.

And if metal is sexist than how does that explain Doro Pesch, Girlschool, Amy Lee of Evanescene, Cristina Scabbia of Lacuna Coil, Lita Ford, etc.

How can you possibly say Coven's album was louder than Sabbath's? Tony Iommi blowed people's head off when that first came out. "N.I.B." and thier song "Black Sabbath" completely destroy Coven in terms of volume.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:00pm


This is for Dude Man, the genre king-

Here is the definition of GENRE from your much quoted Wikipedia:

A genre: is a LOOSE set of criteria for a category of composition; the term is often used to categorize literature and speech, but is also used for any other form of art or utterance.

Genres are VAGUE categories with NO fixed boundaries, they are formed by sets of conventions, and many works cross into multiple genres by way of borrowing and recombining these conventions.

Hailz





Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:04pm


Just to prove early Rainbow was a heavy metal band listen to this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6IPBN6ARkE

Once you get past the keyboard part and into the drums at 1:08 it kicks you in the face for 8 minutes.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:09pm


This is for Dude Man, the genre king-

Here is the definition of GENRE from your much quoted Wikipedia:

A genre: is a LOOSE set of criteria for a category of composition; the term is often used to categorize literature and speech, but is also used for any other form of art or utterance.

Genres are VAGUE categories with NO fixed boundaries, they are formed by sets of conventions, and many works cross into multiple genres by way of borrowing and recombining these conventions.

By the way that Rainbow youtube sucked.What pompous hairband meaningless contrivance of a presentation.

No Hailz this time Dude.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:15pm


It kicked YOU in the face allright.You've been brainwashed, PR'd and duped Dude.

That's not Metal.That's a waste of recording tape.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:17pm


1. Lilith, one your an idiot because you said "Hailz" anyway.

2. They are not hair metal. Hair metal didn't even exist yet(yah make fun of me telling genre facts again) and they were not a bunch of pretty boys with aqua-net.

3. If you don't like Rainbow that's fine. I never said Coven sucked.

5. Rainbow rocks!

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:22pm


6. You didn't notice I skiped 4

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:23pm


Even the comments at Rainbow youtube said like "Bollywood".

That Rainbow stuff is too fake for me.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:27pm


I thought Wikipedia was not a reliable source Dude man? I for one saw nothing " Metal " from Rainbow. Hard Rock. The ONLY DIO albums I own, or will ever own are from Rainbow.

Allmusic Guide also.. is mindless rambling from people too.. its why its a blog lol. I Looked up the Band " Life of Agony " on allmusic.. they are DEAD wrong..on the information. The only thing they got CORRECT on Alan Robert's side project Spoiler NYC is and I quote.. "Following the loss of a close friend, Alan Robert -- co-founder and bassist of Brooklyn metal-hardcore outfit Life of Agony" They left out that it was His very close friend and father figure that inspired ALL of the songs he wrote for the Spoiler NYC Debut album " Grease Fire in Hells Kitchen.. And Alan Robert is the FOUNDING member of Life Of Agony..He owns ALL rights to the band, and merchandise. LOA was one of the overlooked thrash metal bands of the 90' and early 2000's. They dont even LIST Life of Agony Touring today.

Sexism Was in Rock Music before modern Times. Its not like Coven are a band of today. None of those women have the problems today in the industry as Jinx Dawson did..

And yes Coven's album IS louder than Sabbaths debut Album when played on the Channels I mentioned.. it gives you a Idea of what the band sounded like live. Jinx's vocals will blast your ear drums ( this is due to the fact, the music was turned down to focus on her vocals ) Steve Ross's drums sound like M-80s going off.. Oz Osborne's Bass is VERY thunderous..And Playing Blood on the Snow on those Channels.. I could only IMAGINE how " Heavy and loud " it would be Live.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:30pm


Digitaldreamroom, Martin Popoff's The Top 500 Heavy Metal songs has 2 Rainbow songs in the top 100(as voted on by metal fans), metal bands/people like Dream Theater and Yngwie J. Malmsteen have covered them, heavy metal radio DJs like Eddie Trunk play thier songs, and Rob Halford once said that metal can be found in, "the thundering medieval questions of Rainbow...".

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:38pm


Have you heard of Sir Lord Baltimore Dude Man? FAR heavier than Rainbow, Or Early Lucifer's Friend.. Again Heavier than Rainbow, BloodRock.. Far Heavier than Rainbow..Even 70's Judas Priest ( 70s ) albums is Heavier than Rainbow, and The Scorpions.. the list is endless.. Iron Maiden ( from 1969 ) Armageddon..
Here is a little Sir Lord Baltimore for you,
even in 1971 they still kick Rainbows ass in heaviness..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErxAbqsBnFM

Posted by A.R on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:43pm


You said my little internet searches were awful sources, so I critized you for not living up to your own rule(maybe a little hypocritical for me to use it).

Rock music in general in the '60s was not sexist. Jefferson Airplane, Janis Joplin, etc. wouldn't have had hit records if it sexist.

Every site has mistakes. Do you think this one giving Frankie Goes to Hollywood a 27% chance of induction isn't a mistake?

I obviously never say Coven live, so I would never know what they would sound like live. Take thier song "Black Sabbath" compare it to Sabbath's be honest. Do you actually think thier's is louder than Sabbath's? No chance.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 19:52pm


Really rock music was not sexist in the 60's? The industry did not even know what to do with Jinx.. they thought she was far to pretty to front a band like Coven.. your right.. the Industry ONLY supported the Janis Jopin, Grace Slick types. Coven's album pulled and banned apporx 6 months if not a lil longer after its release.. Because of Church's having letter drives.. because of the stage show.. and then on top of that.. A picture of Charlie Manson HOLDING Coven's first album was printed in Esquire magazine..

And yes on the LIVE Channels.. Coven's " Black Sabbath " sweeps " Black Sabbath's song away..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 20:08pm


Of course I know of Sir Lord Baltimore. The first band correctly used with the term heavy metal(Humble Pie was the first described with the term, but not a metal band.) "Hard Rain Fallin'" was much heavier than any Rainbow song and I will say that. Sadly, they never caught on mainstream because they were too far out there for the time. On the Steppenwolf entry I put them on a list I did of early metal bands a little while back. You can check it out if you want. In my opinion though early Rainbow is still a metal band

Lucifer's Friend, at least in my opinion are a good prog group, not metal. Fun Fact: John Lawton later joined Uriah Heep.

I would never call Bloodrock metal. "D.O.A" was scary, but not metal(even though wikipedia list them as one.)

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 20:08pm


I was still reading Allmusic on Alans other side project ( Mind you, they have Life of Agony, in the pop rock catagory.. They are Thrash Metal.. ) If they would have done the proper work ( Contact Alan ) and the Among Thieves, they would LIST Both albums they put out.. The states WOULD NOT even release them here!! They were released in Japan. on Roadrunner's Sub Label.
Here is A little Life of Agony for you.. I See NOTHING Pop Rock about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4YkV0aMNSI

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 20:08pm


If you look up any band on Allmusic they are going to put one of thier general categories. Even if you look up bands like Death they put in pop/rock, but if you click on Life of Agony's page they put genre pop/rock and styles heavy metal and post-grunge. See here's thier page:
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amp&sql=11:0xfuxqwgld6e

And I understand it was un-fair to be judged by Manson's actions and they might have had a career if that didn't happen, but we can't change the past. It wouldn't be the last time bands career were destroyed for injust reasons. Judas Priest got falsely blamed for subliminal messages, Twisted Sister had videos banned by Tipper Gore and the PMRC which actually did kill thier career, and I'm sure it has happened in the cases of many other bands.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 20:50pm


Dude Man Quote:"Rock music in general in the '60s was not sexist. Jefferson Airplane, Janis Joplin, etc. wouldn't have had hit records if it sexist."

That's funny because I can ONLY name those other TWO female fronted rocker bands also.

It was a pretty small female group.

The music business was NOT ready for the female fronted Heavy Occult Coven back then.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 20:56pm


Once again, Coven is not heavy. Lilth aren't you the one who is suppose hate genres any way.

Here's a few more sucessful female rock artists of the '60s/early '70: Joni Mitchell, Linda Ronsadt, Yoko Ono, Nico, etc.

What no "Hailz" again?

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 21:24pm


Dude Man.. None of those females fronted Occult Rock.. Tina Turner, Joan Baez, Sonja Kristina Linwood ( From Curved Air ) Diana Ross, Nor did Yoko ( which is a DISGRACE to even consider her in the same likes with Jinx Dawson ) Stevie Nicks had the Image, but did not do Occult Rock.. Linda Ronstadt, ( whom also shared rehearsal room / hall with Coven) Joni Mitchell, Not a one of those women can hold a flame to the beauty that Jinx Dawson has.. Coven were the FIRST HEAVY OCCULT ROCK BAND.. Bands to follow, Black Widow, Comus, Dr Z. Monument... the list is endless..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 22:07pm


Coven NOT heavy nor are they the "seed" to heavy metal.

And really is it such a big deal that they mested around with satanic lyrics? Lots of bands write songs about driving cars. If there was a band who only wrote songs about cars would that band be important?

And the whole occult theme isn't it really just for show. bands put the words "satan", "demon" and "evil" in songs all the time. Non of them actually believe it. Blue Oyster Cult used the words "lucifer the light" 36 times in a song called "7 Screaming Diz-Busters"(and yes I know Coven came first), but they didn't believe it. Half the time they mentioned the subjects just to show how they could touch on dark poetry with no problems.

And out of those bands you mentioned have any of them said they were influenced by Coven?

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 22:29pm


And on the Life of Agony post, my reply to your comment.. It says they Influenced By Stone Temple Pilots.. FALSE.. Life of Agony was influenced by the band Anthrax, All members are still good friends with the band..also by Bio hazard, Life of Agony was born in Brooklyn NY. They were not as popular here in the states.. but well known in Europe, because Roadrunner records was still new at the time, and didnt market the band to well.( And Screwed them royally ) They have Keith Caputo's influence mixed .. Keith's Influences come from Scott Weiland, Robert Plant, Jim Morrison, are just to name a few. Alan is inspired by punk bands per say.. and Johnny Cash. I could make a list miles long.. but the band DID NOT take influence from STP. Type O Negative is listed as a similar band.. I guess you could say that.. because LOA's drummer Sal, was also the drummer for TON. and KORN is not even in the same Catagory with LOA.. they are NU Metal. Big Difference. LOA is Heavier and harder that KORN will ever be! The entries on LOA, Among Thieves, and Spoiler NYC are incorrect.. I'm not even sure I want to look at Joey's, Sal's and Keith's pages on there.

Posted by A,R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 22:38pm


Dude Man, Coven were the first.. Black Widow Cites Coven..as a influence. The Bands to follow took what Coven started and rode it out.. There is a big difference between singing about satan, and actually being a band of the Occult, like the bands I mentioned.. there were NO OTHER BANDS AROUND for Coven to draw influence from.. that did the style of music Coven had, nor theme.. all else that followed are DIRECTLY influence by Coven..( OCCULT ROCK ) Even Black Sabbath, because the incorporated Occult imagery and lyrics.. ONE YEAR after Coven. Black Widow incorp'd SOME of Coven's stage show in theirs.
infact.. Clive from Black Widow recently released a video shown on facebook, where he mentions Coven.. they took what Coven had and went Further and included a " sacrifice " on stage..
Comus can be considered a " Prog " Band.. whom wrote occult related lyrics AFTER COVEN introduced it.. Dr. Z. is a Satanic version of Alice Cooper.. releasing their album in 1971.. you can even add Zior and their drunken, drug induced spawn Monument released 1971.. changing their name from Zior to that of Monument.. the band Daemon, LoL the list is endless.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.7.09 @ 22:51pm


While obviously not a satanic band, but Coven used to cover Procol Harum live if I'm not mistaken(correct me if I'm wrong), so I'm sure they had some influence.

Here's that sacrifice you mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn53Jtq8K_g&feature=related
Pretty tame by today's standards.

Also, non of those bands you mentioned were metal, so I have no clue where you are getting this heavy "seed" thing. And being honest non of those ever hit it big.

Fourth, Sabbath were not influenced by Coven. They have never claimed to be and sounded completely different. Coven's "satanic" acid rock is far from Sabbath's ear-spilting heavy metal. Besides Sabbath were Christians. They wore crosses and put them on stage for support of the church. The lyrics were just them trying to scary music according to the band because people paid to see frightening movies. And do you want to see the list of bands that have covered Sabbath: Metallica, White Zombie, Megadeth, Sepultura, Faith No More, Pantera, Slayer, Monster Magnet, Tesla, Dream Theater, Type O Negative, Avenged Sevenfold, etc. Non have covered Coven.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 13:28pm


Ferus Odium, Negative Land and Necro have sampled Coven recordings for their CD's, besides Mercyful Fate and King Diamond admitting to lifting a lot of Coven lyric.

But according to their manager, Coven never allowed publishing clearance on any of their songs.

Posted by Lilith on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 16:12pm


P.S There is a new post at a Coven myspace blog from the band Crow.They were the writers of Black Sabbath's first single in 1970.

They had the same publishing and mgmnt co.as Coven.Read their post.They say they know BS got their ideas from Coven.

Posted by Lilith on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 16:22pm


That is actually a Edit from Clive on the Black Widow - "Demons of the night gather to see Black Widow " DVD from 1970.. I have the DVD. and the sacrifice isn't " tame " the nudity could not be shown on Youtube. And the song " Sacrifice " approx 20 minutes on the DVD.. and the sacrifice in its full form. The DVD is from Black Widow's performace on Beat Club. I have conversed with Clive many times.. Interesting and Kind man.

False. .Type O Negative, have borrowed from Coven.
And MANY More.. And you need to research the early years of Sabbath's performances.. And they didnt get into the whole Christian deal until 1971 tour with the Master of Reality album.. which found them doing MANY church benefits. Which I find the story of the " churches " against them funny... and Might be false.. because the Church's were after COVEN.. Sabbath was doing benefits for church's lol. Dont sound like they were out to get them, when helping them rake in money.

And how do YOU know Sabbath were not influenced by Coven? Coven had a HUGE following among other Musicians.. I heard that when Jinx found out a friend would come to Coven house, she would have the studio set up for them to play.. SO how can you say.. they influenced none at all.. ?

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 16:43pm


Black Sabbath 1970 Rolling Stone Magazine review quote:

"something like England's answer to Coven."

That not only dates Coven first, but it also compares Sabbath to Coven.

Need I say more?

Posted by Lilith on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 19:06pm


Sorry I couldn't get back soon enough. I had a busy day.

Widow's show is still tame by what would come after it. GG Allin throwing feces and cutting himself, Blackie Lawless throwing meat at the crowd and putting a girl on a torture machine(also Blackie sites Steppenwolf as his first heavy metal experience. I say it in an interview with VH1.), and Marilyn Manson putting a flag in his butt and dressing up like a nazi. Makes even Alice's show seem like he could have stayed a few more episodes with the muppets.

Black Sabbath only have a few small connections to the occult. They played songs with the dimished fifth, which was banned in the middle ages by supstitious people. And Geezer did for awhile get into black magic, but they sung of evil being something to stay away from and fear. Fans would even bring crosses to to the shows and the band had them on stage. Tony still performs with a cross on. It is a fact though that the media did sometimes confuse Widow with Sabbath and Sabbath got into a lot of trouble for it. According to interviews I have seen with Tony he has claimed though that several churches did try to stop them playing, in my opinion most likely because of the mix-up, despite the fact that they supported the church.

Sabbath has never claimed in any interviews that they have been influenced by Coven. Ozzy has stated bands like the Troggs as influence though.

Lilith I have known about the review for a long time. Years even before this discussion. Lyrically they both trying to be "scary" bands, but musically they were totally different. Coven came first with an album, but it was not a heavy metal album nor precursor to the genre. It's Jefferson Airplane with frightening lyrics. Sabbath's will always be consider a metal album and at that one of the most influencial in the genre.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 21:15pm


Ignore the grammatical errors please.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 21:17pm


So, there you go, you just affirmed the following again:

The definition of GENRE from Wikipedia:

A genre: is a LOOSE set of criteria for a category of composition; the term is often used to categorize literature and speech, but is also used for any other form of art or utterance.

Genres are VAGUE categories with NO fixed boundaries, they are formed by sets of conventions, and many works cross into MULTIPLE GRNRES by way of borrowing and recombining
these conventions.

Posted by Lilith on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 21:45pm


I'm going to have to go with Lilith on that Dude Man, Sabbath had more interest in the Occult that you know about. Reason why Lester Bangs wrote the piece. He thought they were a band like Coven. They could easily be compared to Coven. INFACT.. it was at one of their shows WITH Coven, that Ozzy decided it was time for the band to drop the Occult for good, and leave it all behind.. Memphis 1970.

Widow's show might have been what you considered " Tame ".. But not for the time... I'm sure you can find articles online with people that were revolted.. infact I know there is a piece out there from Alec Sanders WARNING Black Widow.. Again, The Sabbath boys were involved with Sanders and his coven.. However Black Widow was taking black magick to the extreme on stage. Going one step further than Coven did.. Coven ended their show with their version Repent Walpurgis correct..that is when Jinx Cited some of the black mass, turned to the crucified Jesus, Screamed " HAIL SATAN " and from what I heard, from someone who had seen Coven's shows.. the band was really loud, especially Jinx.. the Jesus came off the cross and inverted it.. and danced away while the band into a " interlude " so to speak of Ave Maria. And that was the end of the show.. Not once did this jesus move while it was on stage, infact from Audience view.. you would assume he was a statue.. Coven had a whole Ritual Table, Noose, Candles LIT everywhere, the stage lights were Red, the person I heard this from said, the band was all dressed in black, with pale makeup, with the red lighting said they looked like they were in hell literally.. and not to mention, the band came ON STAGE in coffins. Holding back Candles.there was so much pale make up on, you couldnt tell if Jinx, had lips! and the black / dark make up around the eyes almost made Jinx appear like a skull, her eyes looked sunken in..like one of the undead. Vampireish. that is shocking! esp for the time.

I dont believe the church stories from Sabbath, its rather funny and odd they tell the same story, when it happened with Coven. The Church's HATED Coven.

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 06.8.09 @ 22:04pm


But then again I do not believe everything that is sold to me.. I'm just going to throw this out there, as I mentioned before about the name " Black Sabbath " and their supposed claim of taking the name from the Movie: FALSE.. only in the US was it called Black Sabbath..

I Tre Volti Della Paura... Aka ( Three Faces of Fear )AKA the Movie Black Sabbath as it was released in the states. was released as the following...
Country Date
Italy 17 August 1963
USA 6 May 1964
West Germany 21 August 1964
UK 6 December 1964
Austria 1965
France 17 November 1965
Sweden 25 April 1966

NOW lets get to the Original Title of the movie on the country it was released. ONLY in the US was it called Black Sabbath.. the One of other 2 that are Undefined would HAVE to be the British film. Hmmmm Bogus Story?
Also Known As (AKA)
Les trois visages de la peur Canada (French title) / France
As Três Máscaras do Terror Brazil
"Black Sabbath USA "
Der Ring der Verdammten Austria
Die drei Gesichter der Furcht West Germany
I skräckens klor Sweden
Las tres caras del miedo Spain
The Three Faces of Fear (undefined)
The Three Faces of Terror (undefined)

Which I believe they took the Name from Coven. Being the movie was not called " Black Sabbath " in the UK.. IT would have to be The Three faces of Fear / Terror.. You may argue it if you wish.. but proof of release is all I need.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.9.09 @ 03:05am


A.R. this is from a U.K. website and they list the film as Black Sabbath.
http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/film.jsp?id=101230

While I think the obvious references to occult subjects could easily be misinterpreted. "Satans coming around the bend" in the title track and "My name is lucifer, please take my hand" on "N.I.B" don't first come off as Christian lyrics. Same thing with "Number of the Beast". Most people just assume the song is about evil when it's about a dream. Also, keep in mind this is Lester Bangs we are talking about. The same guy who called himself a white... African American racial slur.

True, for the standards of the time Widow's and Coven's shows were rather frightening. And remember though we know all the black magic is fake.

Lilith the only reason I keep bringing up the genre concept is because Coven have an album called "Goth Metal Queen" and because some of the older comments here and A.R. refer to them as a "heavy occult rock band". If Coven would have never called themselves a metal band I wouldn't be complaining about the genres.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.9.09 @ 21:04pm


Still no "Hailz".

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.9.09 @ 21:05pm


Coven WAS the first "heavy Occult rock band".

And they STILL are "THE heaviest Occult band".
No other band to this day has topped their Occult importance.

They recorded the first Black Mass,they first did the "Sign of the Horns" onstage and had the first photographs of members doing the "Sign of the Horns" on an album,Jinx offered herself nude to the public in one of the first ever photographed Mass rituals,they wrote songs of true Occult stories and they were a REAL practicing Coven.

Their work is historic and stunning in the Occult field.

And if Jinx Dawson is NOT the "Metal Goth Queen", who is?

Frankly I think she is a Goddess.

Posted by Lilith on Tuesday, 06.9.09 @ 22:49pm


Yes, Jinx is the Goddess of occult rock... She was the first, PERIOD. Coven's first LP was a very scholarly example of dark occult rock... to wit: "The Satanic Mass"... Black Sabbath was a joke in comparison. They and their fans can fu*ck off... I just saw Ozzy s*cking the corporate c*ck on TV for some damn cellphone. Sharon is the pimp and Ozzy is the whore...

Posted by Matt Flash on Tuesday, 06.9.09 @ 22:59pm


Actually Dude Man, while conversing with Clive many times doing research, Black Widow went to Alec Sanders( might as well say THE Head Witch of England,and the Sabbath boys were involved with Sanders also..) for information and such on how to do a proper mass.. and Black Magick. The Magick was real, and in turn Sanders sent a warning to Black Widow.. for taking it a little to far.

The Link you posted does not show it as " Black Sabbath " The name Black Sabbath was ment for the US release.. Not England.. It is known that European films DID NOT have the same titles as in the states.. For example.. what is known as " I Spit On your Grave " was " Day of the Woman " Else where.. or " Revenge of the Woman "
Conqueror Worm ( Edgar Allan Poe's poem the title was for the UK) was released as " Witchfinder General " in the states. and 1963 is when it was released in France and Italy.. everywhere else was 1964. All over the world now it is known as Black Sabbath.. but the name was intended for the US. I bet you didnt know that " The Texas Chainsaw Massacre " 1974 as known here in the states.. Was called " Leatherface " in some countries, and " Stalking Leatherface " in others. Only Now since the 1980's to today..are movies known as the original title everywhere..

From the makeup Jinx wore and still wears..Esp On stage.. and her clothing the same now as it was then..playing with many metal bands..it over qualifies her as THE METAL GOTH QUEEN.. of GOTH QUEEN if you prefer.. It wasnt a name she chose for herself.. she saw the title when people spoke of her online, and such..

Honestly Dude Man, you should check out their Albums.. Esp the second one.. its very addictive.. as well Blood on the Snow.. Metal Goth Queen, has the late Tommy Bolin, and Glen Cornick, and Michael Monarch, along with Coven drummer Steve Ross. NOTHING can top the Concept album of Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.9.09 @ 23:38pm


Sadly, the issue of Coven and their importance continues here.

Let us bow our head to the Goth Queen. Let us tip our cap to her wonderfully expressive stage shows and her ability to cast such a wonderful spell over a couple of thousand lifelong fans. May she reign forever.

Oh, one more thing - the music still basically sux; therefore they don't get into the Hall ever!

I have a great Concert Bill - Coven and Stryper. Then the black masses in the crowd can have at it with the looney evangicals in the crowd. Now that would be Hall of Fame worthy!

Posted by No One Cares on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 05:10am


I bet you never even listened to the Coven library.Obviously not.

You only go by sales and hype.

I'm sure Coven could care less about getting any awards.

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 07:11am


And actually they did sell millions of records, so someone must have liked their music, notwithstanding what little the record business did let them get through.

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 07:23am


I look at it this way, COVEN must have done something right.. They are still being talked about today, as well as their music.. and even younger generations are enjoying their music as most of us did the first time we heard it. I heard that Jinx gets a lot of requests to add certain songs to her playlists on myspace.. that tells me EVERYTHING I need to know about the band.. I even heard that people contact ( Must be one of Coven's good friends ) someone and ask him where they can get the Coven albums.by reading the Comments while researching on youtube.. And this is with NO radio play what so ever.

Music should not be about a popularity contest, or album sells, or money.. Look at the Osbourne's, and KISS..Gene has 2 reality shows.. Alice Cooper is going to get or be on Guitar Hero..Black Sabbath ( Heaven and Hell ) struck a deal with Wal-mart to release the album with the alternate album cover. I lost interest in reading the Article when I got to the mention of that. When a band goes radio friendly, and wal-mart friendly, they are on the path to selling out.. and forgetting what matters the most.. the music. What happened with enjoying the ride while you are on it?

Posted by A.R. on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 12:57pm


First off, I hate to break it to you creatures of the night, but THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MAGIC. Let alone black magic. Don't be afriad of what goes bumb in the night. Notice the people in Coven and Widow's show were not actually killed on stage. It's as real as The Exorcist.

Lilith, honestly sometimes you make no sense. First you call Coven a "seed of heavy metal" than you say you hate genres and now you are fully agree with them calling themselves a metal band which they are NOT. And as far as that "Goth Metal Queen" thing goes, I guess I would have to give that title to Amy Lee. Albeit, Evanscence are one of the more poppier goth metal bands this decade. They have sold about 25 million albums and even won some grammys.

And if Coven are the the "heaviest" occult band than what's the standard loudness for these bands? Strawberry Alarm Clock?

How many albums have Coven sold here in the US and worldwide?

As far as concept albums Dark Side of the Moon easily tops Coven's litle devilish album.

A.R. to be fair to you fans I will look deeper into Coven's catalog to see if I missed anything interesting, but in return might I suggest a little known band of my own:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54H3EUAzpVg
And Lilith knowing you are going to say they suck, but please be a little respectful.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 13:54pm


Hall of Fame "Criteria include the influence and significance of the artist's contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll."

There are even non musicians in the Hall of Fame not well known. Whether you like Coven music or not, you cannot deny their enormous contribution of firsts which have carried over into 40 years.

And one of my favorite recordings is their "One Tin Soldier", which not only was THE biggest selling Viet Nam War Protest record, but also became a grassroots hit for a RECORD third time on the charts as an Anthem for the Native American uprising of Wounded Knee in 1973.

Posted by Industry News on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 13:59pm


"One Tin Soldier" was not a Coven song. It was a one-hit wonder from Jinx's solo project and sould play no factor in this conversation.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 14:08pm


Ahh Dude Man, that is where you are wrong, it was sung by Jinx yes.. HOWEVER she did have it listed as Coven as the band.. So its not really tech a solo project. Coven are listed on the single, and on the the second Coven album. Single from the second album.. Catalog Id number k 14308.. B-side from the single is " I Guess its a beautiful Day today" So YES it does qualify as part of the topic.. because a re-recording was on the second album.
And again Sorry, wrong, Jinx was the FIRST, the title is hers..
Budgie was never really my bag. could never get into them.. yes they are sadly over looked.

Strawberry Alarm Clock is psychedelic rock.. again Coven does not sound " Psychedelic " to me TRUE psychedelic rock bands:
Aphrodite's Child ( Youtube " The Four Horsemen ")
The Factory ( Youtube " Path Through the Forest")
Writing on the Wall, early Status Quo, The Open Mind, Gary Walker and the Rain, Tea Company,( whom did a better cover of " You keep me hanging on " Five Day A Week Straw People, Elias Hulk, Joe Byrd and the Field Hippies, H.P. Lovecraft, Aorta, early Pink Floyd, The world of OZ, Picadilly Line, Horses, The Flower Pot Men,... these are just a few that define psychedelic to me.. Coven do not sound like any of these bands.

Posted by A.R. on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 15:01pm


Interesting that one of the posts above says "one hit wonder" regarding Coven's "One Tin Soldier".That record holds the distinction of charting separately in three different years-1971, 1972 and 1973, something no other record has ever done.It also had two different versions, one on Warner Bros. and one on MGM, making it the only record/s ever to chart simultaneously on two separate labels.

Posted by Industry News on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 16:34pm


The song did chart 3 times, but it is still ONE song. And if you consider this truely a Coven song than they truely are a one-hit wonder. And there is no denying that "One Tin Soldier" sounds like any other flower-power tune. Also, another link Coven have to psychedelia. Listen to "White Rabbit" for a second on the opening bass line than listen to Coven's "Black Sabbath". Basically the same concept of puting up a firm bass line(not saying there are the same line though, but it's the same concept) and creating a trippy sound. Only difference is the creepy lyrics in Coven.

Also, I believe Vanilla Fudge had the best cover of "You Keep Me Hangin' On".

The title was "Goth Metal Queen" notice the second word, so it can't go to Jinx.

And, am I the only person that thought the concept off a white, cowboy martial artist saving a bunch of hippies was kind of stupid plot for a movie?

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 17:37pm


Ohh, and thanks for at least being respectful about Budgie.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 17:40pm


Dude Man, it can very well go to Jinx, She was the FIRST.. woman to spawn Gothic image in Rock and Roll..from the clothes, to the makeup. the Title is HERS.. Jinx was close to those Metal boys.. the title is rightfully hers.. You need to research Coven / esp Jinx's connections with those Metal boys.. Bet you didnt know that Coven's drummer Steve Ross, was asked to join Rainbow..

Coven sound NOTHING like Jefferson Airplane, nor does the Comparison of White Rabbit to Coven's Black Sabbath..

Tea Company had a far better cover of " You keep me hanging on " but this is both on opinions.

Have you NOT seen the film Billy Jack..? you are DEAD wrong on that concept you described.. The movie Involves INDIANS not HIPPIES.. and Children from parents that wanted NOTHING to do with them..and a school simply called the " Peace School" which allowed the kids to have education and such. The song One Tin Soldier was fitting for the film.. one of the MOST controversial scenes in the film is when the son of the sheriff pours white flour on the Indian boy, because the the kids from the peace school went into town, and some wanted Ice Cream.. the owner refused to serve the ones that were Indian. So the son of the sheriff humilated the Indian boy in front of his " goons "..

Posted by A.R on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 17:59pm


He did NOT see it. Again Dude Man is speaking on things he knows nothing about.His quote calls Billy Jack a "white, cowboy martial artist".

The Billy Jack character was a "half-breed" American Cherokee Indian Green Beret Vietnam War veteran, hapkido master and gunslinger.

Not WHITE, Not COWBOY.

Check out Born Losers, the Billy Jack characters' first film about bikers.

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 19:30pm


Wow, I didn't know you were all such fans of late '60s, early '70s four part cinema. Relax, I was kidding around.

If you like Tea Company's more that's fine. I'm sticking with Fudge's. Sometimes I perfer covers that might not usually be considered better than previous covers. I like Frijid Pink's cover of "House of the Rising Sun" more than the Animals cover. I think Blue Cheer's "Summertime Blues" was much better than the Who's cover.

Well, I think you have to play the music to earn the title. Just because of Jinx's conections to heavy metal bands like Motley Crue, Led Zeppelin, etc. doesn't mean we can give her the name "Goth Metal Queen". I still personally see a psydelic band(ohh a genre how scary) with darker lyrics. Whoever edits thier wikipedia page might have gotten mad at this because now they are listed as some imaginary genre called "Heavy Occult Theatre Rock".

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 21:10pm


If you have never seen the Billy Jack films, you should.

The title belongs to Jinx.. Sorry Amy Lee and others were 20 plus yrs after her.. ( Amy Lee is a joke in my opinion, ) Jinx was the FIRST woman to from a band that wore all black, had gothic stage clothes, gothic stage, gothic lyrics, gothic appearance, gothic makeup.. the title is HERS..

Where you and many get the term " Psychedelic " is beyond me.. Coven did not sound like any of the psychedelic bands of the time, NOR the british or greek ext ext psychedelic bands.. "

"Whoever edits thier wikipedia page might have gotten mad at this because now they are listed as some imaginary genre called "Heavy Occult Theatre Rock".

simple answer.. I think their stage show summed that up.. BEFORE Alice Cooper came out of tranny rock.. before the selling out KISS.. COVEN were the FIRST Shockers.

Posted by A.R. on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 21:26pm


Dude: You keep typing "Goth Metal Queen".

The correct name of their CD is "Metal Goth Queen".

And considering Michael Monarch from Steppenwolf plays guitar on it, Glenn Cornick of Jethro Tull plays Bass,Tommy Bolin of Deep Purple plays guitar on it and Steve Ross and Jinx Dawson of Coven are on it, I don't see why "Metal Goth Queen" isn't a perfect title.

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 21:31pm


First occult themed shock-rockers, but Screamin' Jay Hawkins, Arthur Brown, and Screaming Lord Sutch were the first wave of shock-rockers. Despite the fact that Sesame Street is more frightening by today's standards than thier shows.

I'm getting the term psychedelic because if you strip the lyrics the music is just like any of the other bands of the time and of course "One Tin Soldier", which is fair game now, has the obviously link to the time. Your basing thier sound on there image and lyrics, while basing it on the music itself.

Once again the title wasn't "Goth Queen" it was "Goth METAL Queen". Coven just isn't heavy.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 21:45pm


I'm sorry to break it to you, but Coven's stage show was FAR MORE shocking that Screamin' Jay Hawkins, Arthur Brown.

Coven were not psychedelic.. they were also Anti Hippie.. their music DID NOT involve, boy meets girl, boy falls in love with girl, and goes skipping holding hands in a field..Coven did not have anti-war songs, " Sans One Tin Soldier" but it BECAME the Biggest anti war anthem. Coven did not have a psychedelic liquid show on stage.. like other psychedelic bands did.. this is because THEY WERE NOT PSYCHEDELIC.

"The music Coven played was not far removed from the music of bands of the era like Jefferson Airplane, a connection made even more evident with the lead female vocals in both bands. But instead of the peace & love ideals of the turn on, tune in, drop out generation, which other late 60s bands were embracing, Coven's lyrics dealt with Satanism, witchcraft, curses and evil."

Hmm wrong again dude man, and it is in your opinion that Coven were not heavy..

And a Quote from Oz Osbourne from the book "Lords of Chaos":"We did a lot of our album and other things as our stage show, intermixing the Black Mass, or Satanic Mass, as kind of a segueway between the songs. Behind the stage we had an altar and on top of the altar we had what we called a Christian cross and we had one of our road people hanging on the Christian cross as Jesus, and he kind of just stayed there doing the whole show. Our stage was lit with obviously a lot of reds, and we had candles and that kind of thing. Then we would do our whole album and other materials that all dealt with interesting stories of witchcraft. Of course we were costumed ... right at the end of our set we did a Procol Harum song that was just appropriate, called "Walpurgis." And right in the middle of it we break into the "Ave Maria." At that point Jinx would do the benediction of the Black Mass and she'd recite the Latin bits and she would go, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," which is Crowley ... She'd say the Crowley bit then would hail Satan and would turn around and scream, "Hail Satan!" at the cross and altar, at which point the guy (Jesus) would pull his arms off the cross, get down, invert the cross into the Satanic symbol and would go dancing off the stage while the music was still playing."

Posted by A.R. on Wednesday, 06.10.09 @ 22:07pm


I agree with you A.R.Coven is about as heavy as you can get.Coven is big with the biker gangs.I have some biker friends that have Coven tats with inverted crosses and their favorite song is White Witch of Rosehall.And some of the older members said they used to go to Coven shows and help them carry their equipment, and Coven would let them in backstage for free.They still talk about how wild those shows were.

Just ignore that Dude Man guy.He definitely isn't heavy.He can't get any of his little fact checking straight.Must be a geek.He typed "Metal Goth Queen" wrong too many times.

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 00:03am


And Dude Man.. I think you are mistaken for Arthur Brown and the Occult.. He had a interest in it.. But since he was dubbed " High Priest of the Hippies " Arthur was more avant-garde than anything.. and the Occult related " imagery " from Screaming Jay Hawkins had nothing to do with the occult in general.. It all was " Silly " bits, none of it was taken seriously among him or his band mates..

And I go with Lilith on this.. Metal Goth Queen.. The perfect title for the album.. why not it does have Tommy Bolin, Glen Cornick, and Michael Monarch on it.. Along with the heavy vocals of Jinx and Steve Ross's drums.. its a pure match. We all know the the Metal that came from Tommy Bolin and Michael Monarch, and Glen Cornick's band when he left Tull.. Wild Turkey.. is just as heavy.. Wild Turkey's album Battle Hymn is one of my all time favorite albums.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 00:15am


A.R., Coven is a PSYCHEDELIC rock band. Only difference are the lyrics touch upon thier "occult"subjects. Listen to the instruments and it all sounds like scary acid rock. And Jinx's vocals weren't that loud in comparison to some of the other leathered-lunged women of the time. Janis Joplin was basically screaming and Yoko(yes we know Yoko's voice was awful and she destroyed the beatles, but it had more agression than anything Jinx ever sang).

Hate to say it again, but THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BLACK MAGIC OR DEMONS. Myths, simply invented to scare people. There are boogie men nothing real to it.

Tommy Bolin, metal? Clearly you have never listened to the Zephyr, James Gang, or Deep Purple's Come Taste the Band album. The album was basically pop-rock. Not like the previous metal pioneering line-up with Blackmore. I still think the album has some good tracks to it though like "Gettin' Tighter". Michael Monarch is a very underrated player and an unsung for heavy metal pioneer. But Steppenwolf had two sounds: 1. The great early hard rock/metal("Born to Be Wild","Sookie Sookie","Jupiter's Child") or the acid rock/psychedelia band("The Pusher","Magic Carpet Ride"). Similar to Iron Butterfly with those two sounds. And Glen isn't heavy.

Lilith, I have no respect for you and I don't care what the name of the album of the album is. I find the "geek" comment offensive.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 13:45pm


And COVEN are NOT psychedelic.. I was reading what a blogger said about the band when he heard the Blood on the Snow album. .the term heavy ( in a form ) did come up several times.. and I quote:
"The album kick-starts with "Don't Call Me", heavy riffing guitar and powerful piano chords backed up by a very upfront and heavy bass played by a bloke called Oz Osborne. And no, it's not the man you're thinking about. And this makes the perfect backing (with drums of course) for Jinx Dawson's strong vocal chords. She's got much of the same power and expression similar to Jenny Haan of contemporaries Babe Ruth."
And
"It gets funky and heavy rockin' on "Easy Evil" with a sax-solo spicing it up. Great track! The title-track "Blood On The Snow" rounds off the album with great guitar, heavy and distorted. It's a short track with the vocals performed nearly as a mass. Good effect, but the track should have lasted much longer. Coven was a band who played good hard-rockin' music with power and passion and should have been much more known than they were. My copy of this excellent gem is nearly worn out by now, so will somebody please get this out on cd ??!!! Second Battle, Akarma and Repertoire, do you hear me calling...... "

Coven WERE NOT Psychedelic, they did NOT sound as any of the psychedelic bands, if you would have researched.. the listeners of those types of bands steered clear from bands like Coven, Grand Funk Railroad, Blue Cheer.. they did NOT like them. Coven did NOT have " psychedelic " liquid show on screen background.

Nor would Black Sabbath be considered " heavy " I think that title should have gone to Hawkwind.. around LONGER than Sabbath..All of Sabbath's shows were more bluesy than heavy. Hawkwind is 10xs LOUDER than Sabbath, and Heavier..
Tommy Bolin is a " Heavy " guitarist, so is Michael Monarch, and Glen Cornick band " Wild Turkey " were another band that the title " Heavy " should have went to.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 15:34pm


Actually I believe Coven "ended" the Psychedelic phase in music with their 1969 album "Witchcraft" and their live shows, moving into uncharted territory.There are small touches of Psych on the album mainly due to some guitar playing of Jim Donlinger of Aorta and H.P Lovecraft because during those recordings Coven was going through a personnel change on guitar.But the harder edged Chris Neilsen joined the band half way through.

Not only that, many bands that Coven happened to tour with during the 1968-1970 timeline, later switched gears in their music and shows, as Alice Cooper, to a harder edged sound and show seeing Coven doing very dark and heavy performances. Frank Zappa even mentions Coven as the ultimate "heavy" band in his film 200 Motels.

Posted by Industry News on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 16:11pm


Hawkwind were a good band(when Lemmy was with them), but they have more to do with proto-punk than proto-metal. Fast-paced space rock that was influencial on the punk scene. Most likely why The Clash are going to appear and talk of the influence of Lemmy in the up coming film about Lemmy. Lemmy didn't go metal until Motorhead, which would become one of the most influencial bands in the history of the genre.

Coven are psychedelic. Even on one of thier videos on youtube, a fan who posted the video listed it as "Famous satanic psychedelic rock" and that's from one of thier fans! Also, Tommy wasn't a heavy metal guitar player. Zephyr, was a blues band, The James Gang, was just a rock band, and the album with Purple was too poppy to be metal. Monarch did have a start in heavy metal guitar, but also did a good amount of psychedelia too. Glenn, Tull, and Wild Turkey were never metal!

Blue Cheer might have been around in hippie times and named after LSD, but thier music was way to heavy to be classed as psychedelia. Grank Funk were a classic hard rock group, no peace and love sound to them.

Frank Zappa never played heavy metal. You wouldn't ask Pink Floyd for information on punk.

Alice Cooper has never claimed to be influenced by Coven and was NEVER GLAM ROCK.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 17:13pm


Unless you are using heavy in it's old beatnik defintion, as thoughtful and deep, there is no way you can classify Coven as heavy.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 17:19pm


Nothing needs to be said about how loud Blue Cheer was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W8jcDS2It0&feature=related

Dickie Peterson is still out thier rocking today.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 17:52pm


And there is NO EFFIN way Coven are Psychedelic..They do not even fall into the same scene the psychedelic bands were sounding like and their stage shows. I'm sure if they were on rhapsody, they would be listed as HARD Rock or Metal. And the same with Itunes. " Hippies " HATED bands like Coven, Grand funk Railroad, Black Sabbath, Warhorse, Savage Resurrection , Blue Cheer.. they were too HEAVY. And you really cant consider Blue Cheer " LOUD " because the music was TURNED DOWN.. when recording.. the SAME as it was done with COVEN's album..

From a Blood Ceremony Article.. " Born out of an obsession with '70s occult rock, Blood Ceremony's music resurrects the spirit of groups such as Coven, Affinity, and Black Widow."
Blood Ceremony still qualify as METAL. because its in one of its silly sub-genre's Doom Metal.

Hawkwind were still far heavier and louder than Sabbath, even to this day.

Cub Koda from Brownsville Station was impressed by Coven and their stage show when Coven opened for them.. I had the pleasure to chat and interview him before he passed. He was literally scared Sh*tless. And he did say, they were intimidated by the band, and came off as assholes.. but he was impressed by what they had to offer.

And FYI.. I heard from a member of Black Widow.. that the Sabbath / Widow comparison was dreamed up.. because Sabbath and Widow shared the SAME MANAGEMENT.. it was a marketing gimmick.. hmmm Funny how the tables Turned on Sabbath in Memphis 1970.. playing with Coven.. it was then on the " whining " of Ozzy.. the band leave the Occult behind.. and then the following album " Master of Reality" they had the song " After Forever " what a JOKE.

Seriously dude man, its getting rather boring repeating myself over and over.. actually do research.. before trying to debate on opinions.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 18:16pm


And seriously, your a bit delusional on Alice Cooper.. fact is fact.. his early shows DID NOT HAVE THE THEATRICAL CRAP he is known for.. he was GLAM ROCK.. Plenty of Sources Cite his early stuff just as that.. His stage show had already been covered by COVEN. down to his makeup..

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 18:19pm


To Dude Man:

I just went to Wikipedia to see the entries on Alice Cooper. Some of the early information there is rubbish.I worked in the industry during that time in PR, booking and music reviews.

Alice Cooper's first album "Pretties for You" was released in 1969.And having seen them myself at that time, and reviewed them for several papers, they were closer to the term Glam Rock, and HEAVY METAL was NOT even a term used at that time.Coven was on the same bill as this show I reviewed and believe me they were far "HEAVIER" than the Alice Cooper early fluff.Their music WAS the loudest on the festival bill and their show was one of the scariest rock concerts I had ever seen.It was more like a rock music/horror theater presentation with some very real imagery.Alice Cooper at that time had no such stage show nor impact.

When I reviewed them about a year later, my first thought was that they had ripped off Coven's earlier show, but tamed it down, making it more Halloween and less REAL than Coven did.

Posted by Industry News on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 18:23pm


And I have to say. Ike and Tina Turner, Alice Cooper, and It's a Beautiful Day, on the same bill.. is FAR from Metal.. Infact, if you have not heard of It's a Beautiful Day.. they had track called " Bombay Calling " which Deep Purple copied note for note, for their song " Child in Time ".. but it was a friendly borrowing, because John Lord was good friends with the band. and in turn, They borrowed from one of Purple's tracks.. Wring that Neck.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 18:44pm


One More time for Dude Man:

Your insistence on Coven being psychedelic is true in one sense.These people were very stoned and very strange.

Out of hundreds of concerts I reviewed, their's still comes freshly to mind. I remember their eyes being black, like all iris, no color.I thought I imagined it, but later that night I looked at their album cover and their eyes were all black.They refused to answer questions or sign autographs.They also all wore thin black gloves offstage.I never did find out what that was all about.I was fascinated by their coffins onstage, but I was not allowed to photograph them offstage or look into them.The feeling in the backstage room was tight, I just really wanted to run out of there.The singer was fascinatingly beautiful what little I could see behind her long velvet robe.And her Inverted Rosary at her breast shocked me.In 1969 I had never before seen anyone wear such a necklace.

Posted by Industry News on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 19:12pm


Music is based on sound not site. Do you hear with your eyes? You have to base the music of a band on what you heard and to me Coven is just like any other acid rock/psychedelia band of the time just creepier lyrics. Alice Cooper wore the dresses and everything else, but you have to sound like the artists in that genre to be in that genre. Are Guns R' Roses hair metal because Axl put on some spray before each show? Definately no.

I know about "Child in Time". Ian Gillan even admitted that, but "Bombay Calling" didn't have that amazing vocal performance or Ritchie's epic solos. Also, Purple's is 1O minutes, 18 seconds. Purple only copied one other song to my knowledge and that was Rick Nelson's "Summertime" riff for "Black Night"(they added a drum part at the end though), but Blues Magoos ripped it off first for "Ain't Got Nothing Yet". Deep Purple is still my favorite band of all-time and nothing will change that. Besides Zeppelin ripped-off songs too. In "Whole Lotta Love" Plants ripped-off Steve Marriott's vocals on thier rewrite of Willon Dixon's "You Need Lovin'".

Hawkwind was never louder than Sabbath. "Iron Man" is much grittier than "Silver Machine".(Even though I like both songs.)

Sabbath and Widow did share mangement and from what I know the bands were friends. Here's a quote from Clive Jones, "I have experience because I have done the ultimate job- I had to put Ozzy Osbourne to bed!".

And keep in mind about the Alice Cooper tour, up until today it was fine for non-metal acts to tour with metal acts. Judas Priest once opened for Reo Speedwagon, Quiet Riot opened for Loverboy and back then it made sense.

I personally don't considered Grand Funk a metal band(my opinion), but metal artists like Dee Snider have claimed GFR were. Warhorse, I surpised anyone actually what Nick Simper did post-Purple. Hard rock/prog is where I'd put them.

A.R. if the conversation is boring you we can end it anytime....... or we could keep this going for a year like the first Coven talk I wasn't here for....your choice.

As far as the Blood Cerimony thing, let me say in no way am I trying to make fun of doom metal because some of its early bands like Pentagram were alright. But it has progressed to a point today where basically its emo metal. And yet again it's only one band.

P.S. To Industrial News: Yes, necklaces are very scary. I'm surpised I don't curl up into a ball and run for cover whenever I enter a Macy's.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 21:23pm


Hawkwind had several heavy and loud tracks.." Time We Left, Brain Storm " are 2 to check out. I Find " Silver Machine " heavier and louder than " Iron Man "

Doom Metal / Sludge / Stoner Metal, is one of my fave, Genre's .. In order to find out more about the bands, that Cite Coven.. not really a hard job to do.. MANY do.. infact, this is a quote from " The Devil's blood " album...
"Inspired by the classic and vintage rock n' roll sounds of the '60s and '70s, mirroring an aesthetic reminiscent of such acts as Jefferson Airplane, Blue Cheer, Budgie, Coven, Black Widow, Roky Erikson (the band cover 'White Faces' on the EP)." Coven and Black Widow are both cited there.. And then it says this " Mandatory for fans of Witchcraft, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Jefferson Airplane, Roky Erikson, Janis Joplin, Coven, and Black Widow, respectively" Now that is " Heavy " .
Electric Wizard Cite both Coven and Black Widow Even Jex Thoth, I was just reading a article on those bands.. But COVEN was the full feature, from Metal Hammer Magazine.. Silent Hill ( from Italy ) cite Coven.

The Sabbath / Widow comparison was a gimmick from the management..And Clive knows that best when he said that... Ozzy was a drunken / Stoned Buffoon

And Again..American Artists are going to sound different from British artists, Belgian Artists, Japanese Artists.. its their take.. and there are plenty of sources that cite Alice Cooper as Glam Rock.. and as well as Coven as the " seeds ".
If you put LOA ( USA ) up against Nailbomb ( UK ) .. Nailbomb is going to be harder and heavier.. but both are thrash metal bands.. even total different IMAGE. They both are from the same time.. if you take Anthrax ( USA ) up against.. Acid Reign.. Harder and heavier.. To even try to compare is pointless and a waste of time..

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 06.11.09 @ 22:40pm


Stoner metal/stoner rock are not the same thing as doom metal. There is a difference and I love a lot of stoner metal/stoner rock bands. Kyuss was genius and I love what Josh Homme is doing now Queens of the Stone Age. And I like early doom metal, today's bands, not so much.

I don't think you have to attack Ozzy Osbourne for no reason. Yes, he went through the drugs and alcohol, but how many musicians haven't? Not everyone can be Ted Nugent or Gene Simmons and avoid drug controversy. I know your not a fan of his music, but please there is no reason to insult the man.

You don't have to be a metal band or a "seed" to influence heavy metal. Metallica, Queensryche, and Dream Theater have admitted being influenced by Rush. I think the fact that this band is also influenced by Jefferson Airplane sums of my point. Coven weren't as loud as the Jimi Hendrix Experience or Cream which were basically the loudest of the psychedelia era nor were Jinx vocals as gritty as Joplin.

Hawkwind was space rock/proto-punk. They had a tour called Space Ritual and that basically defines thier sound. No way are they louder then Sabbath, but Motorhead was much heavier than Sabbath.

It's not pointless to compare the American and British acts. Angel, New York Dolls, and Twisted Sister('70s) sould easily fit in with the time. And lets not forget the early punk scenes in New York and London. The Sex Pistols and The Ramones both kept the same basic concept: fast songs, simple vocals, few chords, and alienated themes.

This conversation could go on for a long time.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 14:23pm


Actually, I didn't specifically say they all were one genre.. I said they were my favs.

And I didn't disrespect Ozzy, I spoke the truth, and he even admits to being like that.. Ozzy was well known for screwing up gigs for the band, esp in the later days before he was kicked out.

There is a HUGE difference between Jinx and Janis, or Jinx and Grace... because Jinx opera trained .. her vocal range is very wide..Grace did not have the range as Jinx, nor did Janis.. Janis's abuse destroyed her vocals, the drinking, smoking, and such.

I go by people that have seen Coven live, and those shows, left a mark for the people that saw them.. and they all say Coven were loud.. As it was pointed out.. Chris Neilsen joined the band half way through the release of the album. He was the guitarist for the tour. I heard from someone that had seen Coven at the Black Arts Fest. that Jinx was not near the mic when the band was dragged off stage.. and she could be heard in the audience.. That is LOUD. And from what I heard from the person.. Jinx was highly pissed off.

I personally see no point in comparing bands from different countries... because the look, sound is totally different.. Each band has their " look " and " sound ".. you quote the New York Dolls, and Angel.. those bands were total Opposite in sound and Image.. both American Bands.. it is their take on the specific form of music as they play.. Life of Agony was on the Ozzfest many yrs ago ( and screwed out of monies owed to them ) and they were shunned by both other bands playing the bill, and by the audience.. because the look didn't fit the " sound " . And to this Day, they are still compared with the likes of Disturbed.. I can never figure that out myself.

This is what people had to say about LOA and Ozzfest.
" f*** this man im at ozzfest and sound of the underground tour half these bands sucks balls - especially LOA f***en homo singer - god he belongs nowhere near fear factory damn fear factory go to ozzfest where u belong!!!"

"I saw life of agony and they got booed off the stage i thought it was hilarious so if u think life of agony is good that wonderful but they are really bad u couldnt even understand what they were sayin."

and I really do not even want to go into the BS that was said when LOA opened for Megadeth.. They were Shunned by both bills because they did not fit the image of the other bands within and out of the country.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 15:46pm


Seeing how highly you speak of this Life of Agony band I suppose I should check them out a little more. Any recommendations?

Still, you didn't have to call Ozzy a buffon. He knows he shrewed up his life so many times and his body's paying for it.It'slike if you have a fat son and he says, "I think I should lose some weight." you don't say, "Good you have fat man boobs."

Honestly the closest thing I can find to hard rock in Coven's catalogue is "Blood on Snow" and in comparison to Cream or the Jimi Hendrix Experience it's not even louder than thier acid rock. Sorry, still a PSYCHEDELIA/ACID ROCK BAND.

From a point of volume Janis had a louder voice than Jinx. Joplin was screaming at the top of her lungs each song. Slick's voice is more reconizable regardless of range. I'm not trying to knock Jinx voice in any way though, but it wasn't louder or more memorable than some of the other voices of the time.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 19:50pm


With the LOA it depends if you want their metal.. or their side projects... If you go for metal.. Anything from the " Broken Valley, first single from that album, Love to Let you down, is a personal song written by Alan. " album, And Soul Searching Sun, are great,IMO my 2 fav albums from them, their maturest. If you want side projects, Keith Caputo, vocalist released his best solo album to date.. " Fondness for Hometown Scars"
..Alan's punk outfit is good.. Spoiler NYC. I'm partial to all those guys, I know them very well.

Thats strickly your opinion on Coven are Psychedelic rock.. They are not even in the same league to compare with Cream and Hendrix..

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 21:31pm


There was a British documentary on earlier called.. " Glam Rock " guess who was on there.. Alice Cooper.. and his performances on the British TV show.. ( Very similar to Top of the Pops ) called " Glam Rock " he infact described his early stage show as Glam Rock. here is one of the performances on the show.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8vnVWfOzZI

He infact said he had no problem wearing womans make up or his girl friends corset.. and leather pants.. and also he is on the Documentary from the 90's " The History of Glam Rock "

Also again, Coven can not be considered a psychedelic band.. because as it was pointed out.. you got rock, blues, country.. on their albums.. so they do not consider a " psychedelic band "

and to quote Lilith:
"They had the same publishing and mgmnt co.as Coven.Read their post.They say they know BS got their ideas from Coven."
I saw that Lilith.. Crow was there.. they know also!

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 06.12.09 @ 23:20pm


Honestly, would you consider "School's Out" glam? Loud guitar, gritty vocals, anthemic chorus. Also, doesn't Lou Reed claim to have invented heavy metal on that awful Metal Music Machine album? Doesn't Motorhead claim to be a very blues rock band? Don't Queens of the Stone Age hate the term stoner rock? Artists can't be completely responsible for naming thier genre. Another book that names Alice metal is in, This Ain't the Summer of Love, Conflict Crossover in Heavy Metal and Punk by Steve Waksman.

Coven are a psychedelic band. "Lost Without A Trace" sounds like any other psychedelic rock song of the time.

As far as Crow. "Evil Women" was a hit. Record companies push bands to cover hits. Quiet Riot never wanted to cover "Cum on Feel the Noize".

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 13:26pm


"Schools Out" for the summer was a teen/kiddie pop AM radio song about getting out of school just as much as Jonas Brother's pop would be today.It was for kids.Wasn't real heavy dude.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:15pm


Did you just compare Alice Cooper to the Jonas Brothers? Fail!

You think Coven are heavy and they are just another acid rock/psychedelia band.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 06.13.09 @ 14:45pm


I see School's out as a glam rock song, just as I said on the Alice Cooper thread.. funny thing is.. you can consider in your opinion that he is not Glam Rock, when on the British Documentary, he specifically talks about being just that in his early years..

Actually " Lost Without A Trace " was released 4 to 5 years AFTER the first album..

And no.. Comparing Alice Cooper to the Jonas Brothers is not a " Fail"
They both are manufactured POP music..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 00:11am


And one more thing.. WHERE do YOU get that " Lost Without A Trace " is psychedelic?!?!?! it DOES NOT sound psychedelic in any form of sound or nature..from ANY of the bands of that time.. Really Dude Man.. you really need to research so called Psychedelic Rock.. Coven DO NOT HAVE THE psychedelic IMAGE or Sound.. Blood on the Snow album was released in 73/74.. It is a MASTER PIECE of the band. But I am Guessing if you heard, 2 of the albums best moments.. Blue Blue Ships and Lady O.. You would say it were psychedelic.. and HOW wrong you would be.. Or maybe Nightengale, I guess it's a Beautiful Day, or What Can I Get Out Of You.. from the 2nd album are psychedelic also eh?... really man.. wow..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 04:01am


To A.R.: Exactly.Formula Rock.Not very heavy.

That is why people are rediscovering Coven.No formula there.So many different "genres" as Dude so fondly is hooked on, that you really cannot put a "genre" on there albums.True creativity.

And Jinx can sing in ANY style.Unlike her other female contemporaries.Janis,Gracie,Stevie- good, but all the performances pretty much sound the same, same range, same style.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 07:45am


First off the Jonas Brothers have much more in common with Coven. Does the Disney connection ring any bells?

Stop mentioning image when refering to music. Music is based on sound. And like I said Lemmy never considered Motorhead a metal band, Queens of the Stone Age hate the term stoner rock, so artists can't completely be behind naming thier own genres. And if "School's Out" is a glam song than why have heavy metal artists like Slash and Rob Zombie covered it with Alice on television?

"Lost Without a Trace" does have psychedelic influences in it and I stick with my opinion on it.

To say Joplin, Slick, and Nicks were all the same is a huge misjudge. Each had thier own distinctive sound.

Not everyone is rediscovering Coven. This site has very few connection to mainstream media.

Also, can anyone explain what the hell is going on here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS_W1ovrD1o
What band band thinks it would be cool to put a fake spoken word ceremony on an album.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 12:53pm


Dude:To say Joplin, Slick, and Nicks were all the same is a huge misjudge. Each had thier own distinctive sound.

You misunderstood, I meant they each sounded the same on their OWN records.You heard one Joplin song you basically heard them all as far as range, tonality, style - as with the other above mentioned singers.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 13:55pm


I'm still .. wow.. at the thought of " Lost Without a Trace " as being " psychedelic".

What band band thinks it would be cool to put a fake spoken word ceremony on an album.

ME: Why do musicians put spoken words on albums period?

Not everyone is rediscovering Coven. This site has very few connection to mainstream media.

ME: Apparently you haven't checked out the myspace pages.. I have seen comments on people asking where can they get Coven's albums.. Younger Generations.. People that listen to Black Metal.. SO they must have done something right. Comments on Radio Station forums..

I was talking with the lead singer from a " Black Metal " band lastnight.. He said " What Coven did on stage from 68-71 is pure horror, no one can ever top that again. few have tried, but cant be topped as Coven. " Mind you.. this guy is 17 yrs old.

And I agree with what Lilith said, You heard One Janis Song, Grace song, and Stevie song.. you heard them all.. because they do NOT have the range that Jinx Dawson has.. Infact.. Nightengale..does not even sound like Jinx at all.. nor does Lady O..Are just 2 examples.. Thats Talent..Mind you, Janis's early stuff was more nasal, than " screaming " or being " loud "

And Last Time I checked.. Image and Sound were FACTORS in Music.. Its called the " LOOK ".. I mean come on, I have seen many posts that say " Glam " was Glamorous .. Fact is.. NOT ONE of the 70's Glam boys were " Glamorous ".. not a one of them.. its called Glam Rock because of the LOOK.. Wearing Womens clothing, makeup, Shiny Clothes. And this is Quote from " Performing Glam Rock " book on Alice Cooper on " Schools Out ":
"Meanwhile, across the ocean in the USA, glam was starting to take shape. Combining the look and the sound, Alice Cooper's 1972 release "School's Out" established Glam Rock in America.

The title track became the chant of rebellion for America's youth. Nearly everyone had enough of Vietnam, mom and dad did their hippy thing in the 60's, now it was turn of the kids and where did they turn to exercise their individuality, in Glam Rock.

By the way, the original album cover had the sleeve opening in the manner of an old school desk. Innovative and attention grabbing at the time."

Hence the words " LOOK AND SOUND " .

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 16:05pm


First off the Jonas Brothers have much more in common with Coven. Does the Disney connection ring any bells?

ME: No Connection from Coven and Disney exist.. because Disney REFUSED to release the "Blood on the Snow Video".. They were horrified by the outcome.. your point?

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 16:11pm


I've never heard "Nightengale". There is no youtube video for it, no page for Coven on Nutsie, and allmusic only has songs for the first album. And so far the only real good vocal performance I've heard from Jinx is on thier one-hit. Nothing else has impressed me vocally and I see nothing comparable with Nicks, Joplin, or Slick yet. And Joplin was still screaming way more than Dawson.

I have always hated it when bands get thier genre from thier look. In any other decade than the '80s no one could consider Poison, Europe, Enuff Z'nuff, and Warrant metal. But some of the '70s glam rock bands were glamorous. Marc Bolan was a glamorous individual. And lots of other metal artists have covered or appeared on tribute albums of Alice Cooper: Megadeth, Anthrax, Marilyn Manson, Bruce Dickinson, Vince Neil, Dee Snider, Glenn Hughes(the last 4 appeared on Humanary Stew: A Tribute to Alice Cooper)

What black metal band was this that you interviewed?

"Satanic Mass" is still funny and I'll leave it at that.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 17:27pm


Chaos Moon, they are local. in the local underground scene. Didnt really interview him, Just had a chat with him after their show lastnight, he loved my Coven tee shirt I had on, wanted to know where he could get one.. and had a talk about music. And Coven came up.. and he said they are also important in the black metal scene, because they were the FIRST to wear inverted cross's and to have a stage show that they did.. that Gogoroth even tried to top.. on the black mass show.. but couldn't do it. And even considered Coven the FIRST to wear " Corpse Paint "

Jinx can run circles around, Stevie, Janis and Grace.. there is a youtube video for Black Swan
Jinx's vocals sound NOTHING like from One Tin Soldier, nor from the first album..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFGeIkG77jA

No Not really, Marc Bolan did not come of as " glamorous " Bowie wasn't glamorous, Slade were not glamorous.. New york Dolls were not glamorous, Hello were not glamorous, although the leas singer always reminded me of a girl.. The Sweet were not glamorous... I could go on and on.. Roy Wood / Wizzard were not Glam..

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 06.14.09 @ 18:00pm


Glam rock was upbeat rock music. These bands were the "pretty boys", always smiling, a little cocky, but always entertaining. Always playing happy-happy songs and had a distinctive sound. T. Rex, the Sweet, etc. were all promoting life of glitter and good nights on the town. Alice was dirty, gritty, "the world's ugliest women", and had a much louder sound.

You see if a band is impressed by turning a cross upside down more than thier music that tells you something. When these bands listen to Coven they're like, "Cool, they just mentioned Satan." Gorgoroth and most of the other Norwegian black metal bands are more famous for supporting Church burnings than thier music.

Not much of a song(IMO). Good vocal range, but still not louder than Joplin, more distinctive than Slick, or pleasant as Nicks.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 06.15.09 @ 14:10pm


Hmmm Sabbath had songs about satan, and that made them Cool I would say. And Ozzy was known to invert the cross many times.. So are the Sabbath boys.. Ever check out the Dio Years CD? it has a inverted cross. Remember Ozzy's " Diary of a Madman " Album Cover? and the inverted cross was seem through many screen projections on the Speak of the Devil tour dvd. Sabbath were well known for Satanic imagery.

"Good vocal range, but still not louder than Joplin"
ME: Jinx Didnt have scream at the top of her lungs.. she did destroy her voice like Janis.. And when it comes to " screaming " it destroys your vocals just as fast..

When I think of Stevie Nicks now.. I remember that south park episode.. Stevie does not have the range as Jinx.. and mind you.. Stevie is Nasal.. even more now..

"Alice was dirty, gritty, "the world's ugliest women", and had a much louder sound."
ME: SO were Slade, So were Wizzard. He ( Alice ) brought Glam Rock to the states.. singers and musicians wearing outrageous clothes, makeup, hairstyles, and platform-soled boots.. Yup Alice Cooper and band had all of that.

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 06.15.09 @ 15:20pm


Again Sabbath were christians not satanists. The images were meant to make people fear evil. I guess you suppose Creed are evil too. Besides when people talk of Sabbath the music is what has the staying power.

Also, I read your comments on the Ozzy page and how can you say Ronnie's time in Sabbath was of small importance? Bands like Queensryche loved that era in the band and most fans of Sabbath as well.

Janis took risks while singing Jinx played it safe. As far as Stevie that quality brings out a distinct sound. You need to have some kind of "real" feeling to your voice. Ever since the Steve Irwin thing South Park is not cool in my book.

Slade and Wizzard were very poppy, upbeat groups. Alice wasn't a group your parents would want you to listen to.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 06.15.09 @ 19:28pm


Funny, My parents were fans of Alice.. As was my grandmother on my mothers side..Whom went with my mother and myself many times to see Alice Cooper.

Dio's time in Sabbath was of small importance, Had he been important, He would be reconized with Sabbath, Had he been important, The Sabbath boys would have believed him over the " Drunken producer." Had he been important, The Sabbath boys would not have agreed to get back with Ozzy for Ozzfest.. They are not even Sabbath anymore.. and there is only 2 original members of the Dio - Sabbath era.. Remember Bill Ward did play drums on the Heaven and Hell Album.. Vinnie became Bill's replacement, Just as Dio became Ozzy's replacement.. Dio will NEVER see the success that Ozzy had with the band..

You heard one Stevie song, you heard them all.. Same with Janis.. no range at all.

Alice Cooper talks about his early days being Glam Rock in the documentary I mentioned. He is responsible for it comming to the States. and to answer your question you asked earlier about " Slash and so and so covering School's Out ".. Its a Classic.. why would they not? Its funny you hate the fact Image is talked about in Genre.. it also plays a important factor just as the sound does.. Sad but true.. When you hear people talk about certain band.. they mention the sound and look.. they are defining factors.

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 06.15.09 @ 19:47pm


Again, you need to look into Sabbaths early shows.. there was no warning of evil there.. infact Geezer prides himself with his hidden messages.. persay.. on the Heaven and Hell album ( the new one ) it has 25 and 41.. Geezer says this is from the bible.. Matthew 25:41...
and with Lyrics such as, " My name is lucifer, please take my hand " isnt very warning of evil either. Those boys had a huge interest in the Occult.. but when got scared.. ran.
For sabbath to be a christian band.. they had a huge party with Anton Lavey when they came to the states.. at the church of Satan.. and there is footage of a parade.. its speculation that it is a Church of Satan event.. But my source from the Sabbath boys and Lavey, come from a relative of Lavey. and Their Connections with Alec Sanders.. and many people of the Occult.. Even Alice Cooper.. who in his early days, being that he took his name from the ouija board reading, of a supposed witch.. wore Occult jewelry in the early days, up to the Killer Album.. A Pentagram..

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 06.15.09 @ 19:54pm


First off there is nothing satanic about a ouija board. My lutheran, Estonian grandmother used one for a fundrasier when she was in junior high and my sister once bought one for a toy store when she was younger. And while I don't know about "N.I.B", Sabbath's song "Black Sabbath" was about how Geezer was freaked out when he believed he saw some "dark figure" after messing around with a book on black magic.

Alice isn't glam! Alice was much louder and less "pretty" then those acts. And I said Slash and Rob Zombie covered it with Alice at the Scream Awards. Rob himself once noted that his first metal experience was watching Alice on Don Kirshner's Rock Concert.

Ronnie's and Appice's time in the band of of great importance. Maybe not as successful as Ozzy's time in the band, but just as beloved by fans.

Jinx wasn't a daring vocalist. Janis was willing to scream to get a certain sound, Jinx not risky. Nicks has a voice that is pleasant and just feels "real".

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 09:33am


Really, Alice isnt Glam Rock?... when he himself says that he was responsible for it comming to the states in mentioned Documentary.. Think I'll take his word..

Hmm And Dio cant even get it correct with the sign of the horns, Calling it the Malocchio. Just another fabricated story..I grew out of the whole Dungeons and Dragons theme a LONG time ago.

According to stories now.. The figure never happened.. it was a result of a dream all the band members had the same week. According to Geezer in a mentioned book above.. Ozzy wrote the lyrics to " Black Sabbath ".. There is a reason Lester Bangs compared them with Coven..

Like I said, you heard one Joplin and Nicks song, you heard them all.. no range at all. If Janis had lived by the time she was in her mid to late 30's..if not sooner at the rate she was going, she wouldnt have her voice anymore.. screaming constantly, destroys vocal cords.

And on the Ouija boards.. there is a difference between the game, and the real deal.. screw parker brothers.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 16:17pm


And this was pretty interesting, a 21 yr old said this on a forum I visit..

Blasphemy made
flesh (DOES NOT
VOTE)
18974602

June 15, 3:55 AM
" I started questioning Black Sabbath's credibility after coming
across Coven.. I've always considered Dio a bullshit artist as well, but in all
fairness I'm not a fan of his."

And this is what he had to say about Blood on the Snow video.

Blasphemy made
flesh (DOES NOT
VOTE)
18974602

June 15, 3:38 AM
"It's funny to me how the media will shun such bands as this, they're highly
influential and yet don't receive the credit they deserve. I think a lot of
metalheads would be shocked if they dug deeper into their roots to see who the
truly wicked bands were."

SO YES Coven are getting reconized more so today, than they were.. people are rediscovering them.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 16:40pm


Lemmy has said he never considered Motorhead a metal band, Queens of the Stone Age hate the term stoner rock, Joe Elliot has said Def Lepard is not a pop-metal band, and Twisted Sister didn't consider themselves hair metal. Does that mean that those bands are right with thier genres???

I'll take Geezer's word for it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT4Hm9u_RaU

Now your just mad at Ronnie because he popularized the horns. Tough break, no one said Jinx could be the only one to use it and the Beatles cartoon had it first. No need to hold a grudge. The man writes about the topics he enjoys. If you don't like it don't listen to it. I'm tried of every Coven lyrics being, "creatures of the night eat the christians and do psychedelic movie themes with karate knowing Native Americans."

Doesn't matter if it destroyed her voice, she took the risk and half the time it payed off. Jinx ever tried to be daring vocal wise.

My grandmother's wasn't a toy. She got it from a school friend. Nothing evil happened according to her. She also learn palm reading. My sister got a cheapy hasbro one from a Toys R Us.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 16:59pm


Funny, again Geezer tells a opposite story in Sue Crawfords book.. AND in Black Sabbath- The Ozzy Years by, Robert V. Conte, with CJ Henderson.. Hmmm... Suggestive reading there dude man. But hey your still young, and buy everything you are sold..

Am I mad that Dio " Popularized " The Horns? Hell No, I think its funny he has to LIE about it.. and the meaning, because he does not know what the hell ( literally ) he is talking about. And Sorry to bust ya bubble there... Lennon is doing the LOVE Sign.. its seen all through the Yellow Submarine film.. that one has been thrown out a LONG time ago..
Just like the Sabbath boys.. who cant keep a story straight.. even down to the name of the band.. when proof is .. the only country that had the title to the movie black sabbath..was the USA..And its FACT that Not all films had the same titles in every country.. It was released as THE THREE FACES OF FEAR there...

Oh but you see.. Jinx was daring with her vocals... in everything you said above..

And the same can be said to you about Coven.. Dont like the lyrics.. Dont listen to them.

Like I said, I take Alice's word Glam Rock.. when he even calls his early stuff Glam.. and when He said he is RESPONSIBLE for it in the states.. Hmmm.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 17:24pm


And to bust your bubble again.. Coven were doing the sign of the horns on stage prior to the Yellow Submarine film... Released in November 1968 ( The Film ) in the States.. Coven were doing it on stage BEFORE that... The Album ( Soundtrack ) was released AFTER Coven's debut album.. Hmmm.. research really pays off. Coven still Had the Beatles beat by not that many days apart from the release of the Albums.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 17:34pm


If you could appear in film and they would say you brought a genre to a country would you turn it down? Face it Alice is described and has appeared in just as many heavy metal documenties/books. Now, he called himself one of the first artists described with heavy metal in that awful, sexist, stupid, Headbanger's Journey film you hate so much.

Vocally she was not daring. The lyrics and the stage shows, but vocally nothing risky.

On Yellow Submarine the thumb is on the two middle fingers. In the love sign the thumb is out. Lennon's cartoon is doing the horns.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 18:52pm


And he is also described in many books too that he is GLAM rock.. again, his early stuff is GLAM rock..NONE of his theatrics existed in his early stuff.. He was known to strip down to panty hose and a tee on stage! while performing " Is it my body ". Oh of course unless he was PAID to say he was glam rock..Then he would.. you know.. LIE.. hmmmm

Lets see.. Lennon only has 3 fingers on the character.. sorry he is NOT doing the horns.. its the love sign.. if you insist it is the sign of the horns.. watch yellow submarine... find out different..The sign is flashed many times from Lennon, esp during the ending song. " All you need is Love." and Fact is .. Coven predated the Beatles on the sign of the horns.. Proof of Release of the albums. and Proof of Coven on stage in 68... Mind you again, The movie was not released until Nov. 1968.. And the Album was released several days AFTER Coven's debut album. in 1969.

And The movie Metal: A Headbangers Journey is full of FALSE Informataion.. its biased on one mans discovery.. Hence the false story Dio came up with the Malocchio..

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 19:16pm


Love it to Death came out in 1971. According to Alice somewhere between '71-'73 rolling stone described him with the term, heavy metal. Lords of Choas is just as bias. Calling Coven "seeds" souly based on thier lyrics and not paying attention to thier psychedelic influences and Widow are progressive.

Still, Lennon's character is doing the horns. Maybe it was a mistake of the cartoonist, but the thumb is still in the center of the hand.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 19:35pm


LOL Lennon is NOT doing the horns.. he only has 3 fingers... the middle finger and ringer finger do not exist.. he is NOT doing the horns.. again.. FACT is Coven predated the Beatles on the claim..

really lords of chaos is biased? and Dani Filths book? And Lucifer Rising? Its biased because people RESEARCH the ROOTS..from FACT? rather than one mans discovery? who Did no research what so ever.. wow..

According to Alice in the " History of Glam Rock " and " Glam Rock " Docs. he cites himself as bringing it to the US.. and he confirmed what the book " Performing Glam Rock says about his albums, Easy Action, Pretties for you, Love it to death, killer and Schools out.. Even Welcome to my nightmare.. he even had the " Look " as well as his band members.. And Love it to Death, is NOT heavy.. nothing on that album is Heavy...Nor is it on Killer.. Schools out is not" Heavy " as the standards of Black Sabbath.. or other of the heavier bands around.. and My Stars is VERY Glam Rock.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 19:55pm


AS I said on the Alice thread.. if the cover's were not in black and white.. you would see the makeup.. eye shadow, lipstick.. and such.. and he IS wearing womens cloths.. typical Glam Rock look.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 19:58pm


Now your just being hypocritical. News flash for you everyone's opinion is biased!Even yours and mine. Sam Dunn did just as much research. One of the idiots that did lords of choas was publishing books on nazi too.

Love it to Death, Killer, and Schools out are heavy! Each early metal artist had a different sound. Zep, Purple, Sabbath each sounded heavy in a different way.

IF WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS CAN WE TAKE IT THE ALICE COOPER PAGE?

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 20:17pm


Dude Man, first off, Alice Cooper's albums, Love it to death, Killer were NOT heavy considering bands that released albums of the same yr, such as Sir Lord Baltimore, Black Sabbath had Paranoid AND Master of Reality.. Need I continue?

And your off yet again on Lords of Chaos.. you speak of the one man band.. Burzum.. his name is Varg Vikernes.. He was inprisoned for murder, because he was ripped off.. it was a accidental murder ( who really knows if that part was true or not ) .. and FYI.. he isnt Nazi..Nor satanist.. he is Pagan.. His band in mentioned IN the book.

The books mentioned ARE NOT BIASED.. they are researched.. from fact.. not one persons opinion.. where as Metal: A Headbangers Journey.. title says it all... its one mans journey through metal.. its biased.

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 20:41pm


Terrorizer Magazine called Coven "EVIL PROG".

Now we have another genre they started.

Dude Man:please go to the Alice Cooper page.You are too repetitive here.I think you have beaten your incorrect info into the ground.

Posted by Lilith on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 21:35pm


Lilith seeing your history on site you won't even show up on the Alice Cooper page.

And A.R. every book you mentioned is biased. every history book on rock n roll is biased, every opinion ever said on this site is biased, and however anyone feels about a band is biased. Have a good night's sleep and lets take this to the Alice Cooper page.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 06.16.09 @ 22:14pm


I'm through with the whole Alice Cooper glam rock deal. Alice went into detail on mentioned Doc's that his early stuff was just that.. That ended it for me. He said so.. If he said he was country.. then he is country.. if he said he was a drag queen, he was a drag queen. there is NO bias there.. its coming from the person responsible for the music.

And how do you know Lilith has not been commenting other places? people do change names from time to time?

Also, It's not biased when its written from FACT.. and Fact is.. in 1969 when Coven's debut album was released.. in 1970.. bands started covering the SAME theme's as Coven started out doing.. that makes them the SEED.. ROOT.. NO other band Pre Coven.. Covered any of the themes until the release of the Debut album in 1969.. By Coven, which started it all.. In 1970.. Sabbath AND Widow were singing the SAME theme's Coven planted.. Sabbath went a step further and took the SAME photograph that is on the Coven debut album.. AND the Coven poster..
Research is not biased, If there is no facts to prove it.. it makes it a theory.. but when it is proven.. its called.. FACT or PROOF.

Posted by A.R. on Wednesday, 06.17.09 @ 01:16am


No matter what is said - Coven has no place in the Hall of Fame!

Let's just state the truth for what it truly is. Coven's music sucked! They had a couple of decent tracks, but in the end, they just were not that good of a band.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 07.9.09 @ 07:16am


Your statement is not a truth or fact.
It is an opinion.

Posted by Lilith on Friday, 07.10.09 @ 04:32am


No Lilith - it is the truth. By and large, from a musical standpoint, it just doesn't cut the cake. You love the music, great. I am not saying that people shouldn't listen to it. But when speaking of it in the context of a supposed Hall of Fame, it just isn't that good.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 07.12.09 @ 20:43pm


Daemon: That isn't " fact " its opinion..and futhermore, If Coven were not as " good " as you say, they why do bands of this particular genre cite Coven as a major influence?
I even heard that Jinx was asked to write liner notes for the upcoming Black Widow album. That is up to Jinx if she does do it. Which says A LOT.. esp since Black Widow are influenced by Coven.

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 07.13.09 @ 22:01pm


It is not an opinion, it is fact. You all seem to be missing the point - the discussion pertains to the Hall of Fame as it stands today. You named one band (Black Widow). I never even heard of them. If you show me that the next generation of Hard Rock bands that followed Coven onto the scene were influenced by them, then I would backtrack my words. But by naming the few obscure bands that you do only show me that they were nothing more than a cult band whose influence may just have been the perceived darkside of the band more than the music itself.

The music of Coven may very well have influenced a hand full of bands; I don't know. There imaging may have been a bigger influence on these bands. But in the context of popular music, rock and roll or whatever you want to call it today, their impact is absolutely minimal.

All I ask from all the Coven backers is too show me where they have influenced the music itself. Or show me the innovation in the music. Not horn signs; not Wican beliefs, not any of that other hocus pocus. Let me see the big musical influence and I will then learn from you and back the bands induction.


The three stated criteria are: Influence; innovation and perpetuation. All I am asking you all is to show me.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 07.14.09 @ 15:14pm


Shall we start at Image, and sound, and go from there? Steve Ross, Coven's drummer was the first Rock Musician to record the Blast Beat, found on the Witchcraft Album.. later recorded by the black and death metal musicians in the 1980's.
Or do you want to start with Black Sabbath? one year after Coven, I say one year, because those boy's can't keep a story straight, and in England, the film with the title " Black Sabbath " was never shown there under that title, it was The "Three Faces of fear." the ONLY place that had the title " Black Sabbath " was The US. Researching foreign films and such of that era, every place the film was released, or ANY film of that matter, all had different names... for example: The Texas Chainsaw Massacre ( US 1973 ) was released as Leatherface, or Stalking Leatherface in many countries..The Film being released in the US as Black Sabbath, backs up the story from former Black Sabbath Roadie, whom was told by a or 2 members of Black Sabbath that they owned the album.. WHICH also backs up they were also aware of Coven, because 1. They were on Mercury records Sub label, Vertigo records, and 2. the promo Black Sabbath shot that the band took VERY MUCH Like Coven's first album poster that was ALL over England.
Now Black Sabbath CLAIM they were playing the song, by Crow " Evil Woman " in their shows before it was released.. This again is false, How can a band perform a song that was not released yet? IF that were the case they would have been " Black Sabbath as soon as Tony and Bill left Mythology, this again is proven FALSE.. by the start of the recording of the film " The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus" Tony seems to forget about his short stint in Jethro Tull, and seen in that feature, " A Song for Jeffery " is the opening track of that film... SO yes by much research that I can give you reference to, SHOWS that Coven had A LOT on influence on what is known as Heavy Metal today.
Now do you want to get into Alice Cooper? and go from there?

Posted by A.R. on Wednesday, 07.15.09 @ 09:45am


There's really a very simple solution to this debate...why is it that Zeppelin and Sabbath have gotten all of the accolades and people my age who are hardcore rock fans don't know Coven until you bring up "One Tin Soldier"? It's not from "horn flashing" or "who played what drum solo" or what kind of weird props they used. It's their body of work...their music! When you take away all the other "stuff", how good was their music? Why do the casual music fans know who those aforementioned bands are by name, and can rattle off at least a few of their songs off the top of their heads, but can't with Coven. All artists want their music to be heard by the masses, regardless of what they say...why doesn't anyone remember Coven?

If you're a fan of a particular group...great!! Making an argument for them to be inducted into the HoF is another. Seeing "pop tarts" and hip/hop acts getting in before Coven doesn't send much of a message as to their innovation or influence. It certainly isn't "undeniable"...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 07.17.09 @ 20:03pm


How are you analyzing music here? Solely by sales?

The history of Coven has been that they have always had record companies pull their albums just after release for subversive content.(Before the current recession, their albums, esp."Witchcraft" were selling at eBay for $200+.I had to pay $180 for mine.)

So back in the day there did not exist a continuous PR machine,big number of albums released or backing for the band.

Their first album was pulled because Manson was photographed holding a Coven album,besides the fact of the unheard of at that time content.The 2nd because a movie title song Jinx happened to do a session for became a "grassroots" AM radio hit and Warners did not stop that particular single to sell their movie but their album music was darker and the 3rd was not backed with PR because they did not want to wear the now known "Kiss" makeup for Bogart's Casablanca label.This can all be researched.

Because of the internet now, Coven have a large renewed "grassroots" following. This means that people are still interested in what they like, and NOT what somebody "SELLS" them.

Hails to the people.

Posted by metalman on Sunday, 07.19.09 @ 09:27am


There was more of a willingness for the record companies' "PR machines" to "hype" (fund their touring, nationwide release, etc...) their major acts back in the day than there is now. Record companies have never been ones to buckle under pressure...if they thought they could make a lot of money and the music was good enough (and it was legal), it would've been out there. But if it just wasn't "worth the trouble", then I can imagine them pulling the plug or not giving it any attention...

Artists in need of a break not doing things on "principle" is pure hogwash. If you record an album and really want it displayed to the masses, you'll wear a clown suit to do it (regardless of how "self-righteous" an artist makes themselves sound), then when you're getting regular airplay you can start making "demands". Otherwise, why waste time recording something no one is going to hear?? It's a contridiction at the least and just plain STUPID to make an album that you know won't get any distribution.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.19.09 @ 13:03pm


Record companies DID buckle under certain situations.I worked at several companies myself.Coven was one of the well known artists pulled after initial big PR campaigns. At first they made the record stores sell the album under the counter and buyer would have to show an over 21 ID.Then they just recalled the albums.
There are MANY other examples of such censorship of cover and content as the Beatles Butcher cover, MC5 Kick Out the Jams, Lennon's Two Virgins where they had to change things, but Coven's album was entirely too controversial and WAS recalled out of stores.

Posted by metalman on Sunday, 07.19.09 @ 14:48pm


Being familiar with record companies back in the day myself, I don't recall Coven breaking out on any major tours, and they certainly weren't the first to have records recalled (my earliest recollection of that kind of censorship was a single called "Society's Child by Janis Ian, and of course the uproar over the Beatles' "Yesterday & Today" album cover, to mention a couple), and maybe the record company simply thought "no harm, no foul".

I guess the question remains; if you're a fringe artist, and you feel there's a chance of a recall...why do it? Principles don't pay the bills and obviously the record company didn't bother to Quality Control the album.

If that's the case, then Coven is at least partly responsible for their own anonymity. But that doesn't answer my initial question...how did other artists actually get away with it?

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.19.09 @ 16:09pm


I do not think Coven was in it for money, especially the lead singer Jinx Dawson who I have read was from an affluent family. I think they were in it for their principles, esoteric messages and being Underground.

Posted by metalman on Sunday, 07.19.09 @ 22:37pm


"I do not think Coven was in it for money"-metalman

The goal of any band is to put out an album and for people to buy it. No band would put out an album if they didn't want anyone to own it. That statement you made is ludicrous.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 07.20.09 @ 12:36pm


First off the album was pulled by the record co. due to the Manson connection, which today they would probably not pull an album for that kind of publicity, it would probably make the album a big hit.
And there WERE several "art bands" back in the day that did not do recordings specifically for the big money.They did them for art and did NOT want to be too commercial, they were satisfied with an underground following.
Cult followings? Some fans now go to a new band if their favorite gets too popular.
It is not a one fits all situation.

Posted by metalman on Monday, 07.20.09 @ 14:00pm


"Art Bands" back in the day did albums for the "art" and not for the money? I'll bet their labels (which you needed back then) were glad to hear that!!!

An attitude like that when artists were pretty much dependent on their labels wouldn't allow you to have a recording contract too long. Now, if you were an established star and wanted to do an "art album", the record label realized you would sell a few albums just by your name...which they could tolerate!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 07.20.09 @ 21:17pm


I'M CONFUSED!

WHICH COVEN ARE YOUE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

THERE WAS A 60S-70S GROUP CALL COVEN AND THERE WAS AN 80S-90S GROUP CALLED COVEN.

NEITHER ONE OF THEM EVER CHARTED ON THE ALBUMS CHART.

THEY EACH ONLY MADE ONE OR TWO ALBUMS.

WHY ARE THEY GETTING SO MANY VOTES AND COMMENTS?

THEIR ALBUMS ARE ALL OUT OF PRINT AND NOT BEING RE-RELEASED.

Posted by ROY on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 05:19am




Roy - the 60's Coven.

What is interesting is that many of the respected music sites and publications do not label Coven as a Metal band.

This is copy/pasted from AMG:

Similar Artists
Lynn Anderson
Vicki Lawrence
Maureen McGovern
Godspell
Melanie

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 07:19am


Maybe people don't label Coven as a metal band because they are the Transylvanian Jefferson Airplane.

Also Blue Cheer and Iron Butterfly had released albums a year before Coven, so I think we all know who the real seeds are.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 10:46am


I think the reason these so called "respected music sites and publications" have their info confused is that ORIGINAL 1960's COVEN started the heavy dark occult music so early that there was no genre to put them under.And also these are OLD listings, not updated.When they mention the following:

This is copy/pasted from AMG:

Similar Artists
Lynn Anderson
Vicki Lawrence
Maureen McGovern
Godspell
Melanie

they are OBVIOUSLY referring ONLY to the hit movie title song from "Billy Jack" that Jinx, the lead singer of Coven sang.

At one point the only internet info was that the heavier 60's Coven first album was a band from England which was not true, they are the same band.And that Ozzy Osbourne was in the band, but they has a different Ozzie Osborne in Coven.

A trash band that came later, stole the Coven name and I am surprised they have not been made to stop using it because they were only on a small indie label and the Original 60's Coven was on Warner Bros, Mercury, Buddah, MGM - all major labels.

(Hi boys! are we back in the mosh pit on all this?
Love, Diamond Lil)

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 19:14pm


"heavy dark occult music"- Lilith

For the last time, Coven's music isn't heavy! Listen to a copy of Vincebus Eruptum, then listen to Coven's first album, and ask yourself which is the louder album. I'm sorry, but there is no freaking way you can honestly say Witchcraft is louder! They are not a metal band and I believe they shouldn't have used the term for thier album title(it's almost as bad as when H.I.M. started calling themselves a metal band).

Also on AMG's review for Witchraft it doesn't say Ozzy Osbourne was in Coven. Lilith shouldn't you be thankful to AMG. Coven's second album is an AMG Album Pick.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 21:08pm


Ah, the mosh pit again - I have my black leather stiletto boots on.

Dude,I NEVER said that AMG said that Ozzy was in Coven.If you read my post again, I SAID that early internet info got the two Ozzie/Ozzy's confused AND some still do to this day.

Me:"heavy dark occult music"
Dude Man:"and ask yourself which is the louder album."
Me:To Darlin' Dude, Coven's first album Witchcraft IS the definitive heavy dark occult album and has never been surpassed to date.You are confusing my word "heavy" with "loud".Coven is the MOST occult band ever.
Now if you want it loud, just turn it up.

Posted by Lilith on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 23:35pm


"Coven is the MOST occult band ever."- Lilith

What's up with you and this occult obsession anyway?

You can not use the words heavy and/or metal when describing Coven's music and the real seeds had already been planted in 1968.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 09:39am


The Occult and heavy metal/goth/black metal/death metal,etc. has been infused in rock starting with Coven's 1969 Witchcraft to Black Widow and Black Sabbath to Alice Cooper to Kiss to Mercyful Fate/King Diamond to Motley Crue on to today's Dani Filth, Blood Ceremony and thousands more new bands.In the artwork, in the songs,style and lyrics, in the band dress and logos.Coven WAS THE first band to EVER do all this.

If you research, every band above that I listed has a connection to Coven or has named them as an influence.

What kind of heavy metal are you talking about? the handful of "Christian metal" bands which are actually offshoots of the heavy occult bands anyway?

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 11:26am


I forgot in the list above, unless you want to put under Black Sabbath, Dio/Rainbow.Definite influence there.

Coven and Dio knew each other enough that while Coven was on hiatus, Dio asked Coven drummer Steve Ross to try out for his band and tour.And sometime after that, Dio started using the Coven "Sign of the Horns" on stage.

I have not heard why Coven's drummer did not ultimately tour with Dio, but I understand there is a tell all Coven book and documentary in the works and I am sure that info will be in there.

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 12:45pm


Why don't I give you a little history lesson and let's go back one year before Coven. In 1968 Blue Cheer released one of the first heavy metal albums and in the process created the subgenre of stoner metal. Also in the same year Iron Butterfly released thier first album Heavy which contained the track "Iron Butterfly Theme". So the REAL seeds had already been planted.

And once again Sabbath and Alice do claim to be influenced by Coven. Just because Jinx did the Crue's costumes doesn't mean that they were an influence on MC. Black Widow is not a metal band. Dani Filith doesn't play metal, he plays "heavy funk"(what you've never seen Nevermind the Buzzcocks?). And Blood Ceremony are an obscurity, so they don't mean much.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 12:47pm


Opps, I meant to say Alice and Sabbath do NOT claim to be be influenced by Coven.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 13:16pm


Dude: I get so turned on when someone wants to teach me a lesson!But now its my turn with the whip.

In 1968 Coven and Blue Cheer shared many shows.(I have seen the old posters) And promoters tended to book like acts.And let's not forget Coven had a wall of Marshall stacks and was sponsored by Marshall.So they must have been pretty LOUD.

Cheer and Butterfly had more stoner-psych lyrics, Summertime Blues, Ina Gadda Da Vida, which the metal bands of later did not follow that thematic, but followed the Coven themes of death, darkness, satan, pain, occult.

And, you're wrong again on Motley Crue.I was lucky enough to be at a promo party with Coven's manager and Motley's manager and heard their convo.MC manager told Coven manager that MC were big fans of Coven.

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 13:33pm


Dude: "Dani Filith doesn't play metal, he plays "heavy funk"."

Me: Are you tootally stoned Dude?
The "Cradle of Filth" band is Heavy Goth Black Metal.

And he mentions Coven in his new book "The Gospel of Filth"

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 15:14pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t221eRkfPw&feature=SeriesPlayList&p=AE3FB14812E6A097

I was kidding about Filth. He was on Nevermind the Buzzcocks and he jokingly said he plays heavy funk. Here's the video.

Unless you have video proof of the Crue citing Coven as an influence I can not take your word for it. If you have proof than put it on youtube, if you don't I can't believe you.

BC and IB came before Coven and actually were heavy(which Coven isn't), so they are the REAL seeds.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 15:38pm


Also, the whole scary, dark, satanic imagery thing had already been done as well. Look at the cover of The Gun's self-titled album in 1968. Full of devils, demons, and all that stuff.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 16:37pm


COVEN predates Black Sabbath by about a year on ALL these points

1.)Black Sabbath with band member with the same name as Coven(spelled different,Ozzy Osbourne - Ozzie Osborne)

2.)Black Sabbath band name same as Coven album's 1st song, Black Sabbath

3.)Black Sabbath 1st single Evil Woman, Coven 1st single Wicked Woman

4.)Black Sabbath 1st single by Crow on same publishing company as Coven's, Yugggoth Music

5.)Black Sabbath 1st label Vertigo, a subsidary of Coven's 1st label Mercury

6.)Black Sabbath 1st promo pic with skull, just like Coven's earlier promo pic

7.)Black Sabbath occult cover and logos, Coven cover totally occult

8.)Black Sabbath songs occult themes, Coven real occult themes

9.)Black Sabbath occult schtick, Coven really into the occult

No influence huh? Coincidence? Really?

Posted by Lilith on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 17:05pm


1. Again, The Magic Lanterns had an Oz Osbourne first.

2. You have no proof of that. Black Sabbath have never said that.

3. Two different songs.

4. "Evil Woman" was a hit and record companies push bands to get hits. No better way than covering a well known song.

5. More to say about the record company finding a great band in Sabbath.

6. Record Comapany again.

7. Sabbath were a Christian band.

8. They were not occult themes. "N.I.B." was about Bill Ward's nibby beard, after they did a lot of opium.

9. See 7 or 8.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 18:07pm


So any case Coven have for being the seed of heavy metal is gone because the genre had already started(and Coven are still psychedelia to me.)

The whole satanic imagery, like I said with the album cover of The Gun, had already been done.

And I still don't have any proof that the Crue were influenced by Coven.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 18:22pm


Hello, all six fans of Coven. What are you guys up to today? Commandeer any other websites lately?

Posted by satanschild on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 10:10am


There are seven Coven fans here, not six.
Heavy dark black goth metal mascara rules!
Jinx was hot though.

Posted by BLZbub on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 10:16am


Dude man: The goal of any band is to put out an album and for people to buy it. No band would put out an album if they didn't want anyone to own it. That statement you made is ludicrous.
A.R.: What about the musicians that stay underground, and rely on other means of selling albums rather than, busting out into the mainstream?
Dude Man: Also Blue Cheer and Iron Butterfly had released albums a year before Coven, so I think we all know who the real seeds are.
A.R. : Well you MIGHT wanna contact the people working on the Lords of Chaos film. because they are one of the books that CITE Coven.
Dude:Opps, I meant to say Alice and Sabbath do NOT claim to be be influenced by Coven.
Me: They do not have 2. We know for FACT that Coven Had Nooses on their stage for their Opera. We know for FACT that Alice Cooper brought this in his stage show, We know for FACT that Jinx talked about eating dead babies and such on stage. Alice Cooper Recorded a song " Dead Babies" on the killer album, we know for FACT that Coven wore dark erie makeup ( BLACK ) before Alice did.. they shared the same rehersal hall.. I have seen Photo's. I even found one Of Jinx and Coven's drummer Steve Ross AT Tommy Bolins last birthday party.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 13:17pm


1. Again, The Magic Lanterns had an Oz Osbourne first.
Me: Magic Lanterns began their career in 1968. COVEN was already playing with Bands like the Yardbyrds and such. and doing their diverse stage show. Your Point. And the Same Oz in Magic Lanterns is NOT Ozzy Osbourne.
2. The Film title Black Sabbath was NOT released in the U.K. Coven had the title ONE YEAR Before Sabbath.
3. Yes they are 2 different songs, however it does not excuse the " Coincidence ".
4. Sabbath claim they were covering Evil Woman in their shows while under the name Earth.. IMPOSSIBLE. because you CAN NOT perform a Cover if the song had not been released yet. Earth Became Sabbath at around November 1969. Coven's Album was out in early 69.
And to cover the rest of them.. Sabbath DID cover Occult Themes. And at the insistance of Ozzy, the Band leave all that behind around the time of the Master of Reality album. Coven scared the Living hell out of them in Memphis. I Suggest reading more and or watching The Black Sabbath Story 1970 - 1978 and OR The Last Supper DVD. All Band Members tell what happend in Memphis and they talk about leaving the Occult behind. they also talk about their ties with Alec Sanders ( Whom Widow contacted about their stage show ) and their Tie with Anton Lavey..

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 13:30pm


It's been a while since I've wandered over here, but it's nice to see the Coven page still at work. As I write this it's morning, so none of Jinx's followers are here to engage me in conversation.


Man, I'm telling you, this whole site is going nutso here. I gotta clear off this whole site, it's gonna be the end of me. You got the Madonna people in one corner, swearing she's the best & busy being brainwashed. In another corner, you've got the Steve Perry fans who are struck by his voice the way the crew in "The Odyssey" & "The Iliad" were struck by the Sirens. I think instead of Perry they should put Homer in the rock hall in his place.

Meanwhile, over here the crew is practicing the dark arts at night while were all asleep.

This site'll get me yet.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 06:37am


It's official - this site has gotten me. And now I understand why. It came to me at breakfast why I keep returning to the Coven page, and also to the Madonna page, illogically. It's been staring me in the face all along, & yet I failed to see it.

It's the battle for supremacy over this site!

MADONNA VS JINX DAWSON!!!

The battle to end all battles! The biggest throwdown since Hulk Hogan vs Andre the Giant! And it must happen, if this website is ever to regain normalcy.

Picture it... Madonna, with her brainwashed legions of supporters, all Vogueing it up, all the while tossing out fake posh English accents in one corner...

& in the other, Jinx Dawson & her army of darkness, comprising of one tin soldier and a horde of witches, werewolves, and vampires.

We see Madonna, the defending champion (she has made the Hall, after all) holding up the title belt. She is dressed as provocatively as possible, yet still retains her fake accent for her royal supporters

Meanwhile, Jinx enters w/a full WWE "Undertaker" style entrance (druids, scary music, the works) looking every bit the princess of darkness.

but before the match begins, we the crowd rise, believing we will get the national anthem... & instead we get Steve Perry (the guest outside ref) singing "Spearate Ways", an appropriate song for the combatants. The introductions are made, the referee checks for illegal objects...

AND THEN THE BELL RINGS...


Somebody call Vince McMahon!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 09:28am


Cheese - you are one sick b*st*rd; but probably correct.

I have to say that for the first time here, I think I will back Jinx.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 08.11.09 @ 13:13pm


Even Syd Barrett and Kurt Cobain would be lying if they said they didn't want people to hear thier music. Jinx wouldn't have done "One Tin Soldier" if she didn't want to hit the mainstream.

FACT: Blue Cheer had an album first.

Coven have zero case for being the "seed" since it was already planted(metaphorically speaking of course.)

Lords of Chaos has an author(Michael Moynihan) who edited a book by a neo-nazi. He does not have much credibility as a heavy metal journalist. The fact that Widow and Coven both get nods is insane considering thier music is far from metal and since the book is specifically about black metal, which is an extreme,it's even harder to believe that they can both be called part of it's history. And don't say, "well black metal is satanic and Coven is satanic so.." because there have been several Christian black metal bands that have appeared over the years(Horde, Antestor, etc.)

Alice's makeup had way more in common with Arthur Brown's. Both black triangles under the eyes.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 13:36pm


The Magic Lanterns had a hit in 1968 with "Shame, Shame" while Coven had no hits in 1968. The MLs were better known. And I never said Oz Osbourne was Ozzy Osbourne.

They are still two different songs. The record company most likely wanted "Evil Woman" to be the single because it had already been a hit.

Geezer was scared earlier on after seeing the "Big black shape with eyes of fire".

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 14:36pm


And don't say, "...what about blast beat? Extreme metal has that and so does Coven so..." because blast beat got it's start in jazz and I doubt anyone would call Sunny Murray the precursor to grindcore, death metal, black metal, etc.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 08.14.09 @ 10:54am


And A.R. I checked out that Savage Resurrection band. lol about them being metal. They sound like pure psychedelic fluff.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 08.14.09 @ 11:17am


HAHAHA!! Is this discussion STILL going on? I never see it.

Coven has no shot of making the Hall. Plain and simple. And they don't belong.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 19:01pm


Dude:And A.R. I checked out that Savage Resurrection band. lol about them being metal. They sound like pure psychedelic fluff.
A.R: According to you, everything of the late 60's fall into the psychedelic category.
Dude:And don't say, "...what about blast beat? Extreme metal has that and so does Coven so..." because blast beat got it's start in jazz and I doubt anyone would call Sunny Murray the precursor to grindcore, death metal, black metal, etc.
A.R: Sorry Coven were the FIRST to record the Blast Beat in ROCK AND ROLL.
Dude:Coven have zero case for being the "seed" since it was already planted(metaphorically speaking of course.)
A.R.: I still say with your argument, you really should contact the people making the Lords of Chaos film, and tell them THEY are wrong.
Dude:Lords of Chaos has an author(Michael Moynihan) who edited a book by a neo-nazi.
A.R: And what book is that? if you speak Varg. he is NOT a Neo Nazi.. he is PAGAN.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 15:11pm


And FYI.. UNBLACK metal as it is called for the christians.. is NOT Black Metal..

Dude:They are still two different songs. The record company most likely wanted "Evil Woman" to be the single because it had already been a hit.

A.R: Yes they are 2 different songs, however it does NOT excuse the FACT that Sabbath were on Mercury Records sub label.. And it DOES NOT excuse the FACT that Tony claims to have been preforming the song " Evil Woman " Before.. YES BEFORE... The song was released.. Claimed it was in the Earth Set.. I suggest reading the Black Sabbath History book. Impossible.. you CAN NOT perform a song before it was released.

Dude:Geezer was scared earlier on after seeing the "Big black shape with eyes of fire".

A.R.: Funny, because according to Geezer in the book " OZZY " by Sue Crawford.. Chapter titled " He's Leaving Home " Pages 43- 47 talk about that.. and Geezer says.. that it was a result of a dream, and all of the band members had the same dream within the week. and calls it, and I do quote " A Satan Given Song Thing " So Dude, which is it?? A figure or dream?? Again only seems you go by the MYTH of the band.. and not search for truth.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 15:22pm


Michael Moynihan edited a book called Siege, which is about neo-nazi James Mason. My point is that he has no credibility as a music journalist seeing as fascism is a bigger concern of his.

Savage Resurrection were a poppy psychedelia band. "Thing in E" is pure happy, hippie fluff. Your definition of metal I find ridiculous. Bloodrock? "D.O.A." was scary and far from heavy IMO. Hawkwind? They're space rock. Grand Funk? I think there is a reason why the general public will never see them as a metal band because they're not. Warhorse? They are the same thing as Captain Beyond, Hard prog rock. Yet early Rainbow isn't metal?

This how I see '60s metal: Led Zep's first album in '69, High Tide as well in '69, Iron Butterfly(despite the fact that a majority of thier work is psychedelic pop they did have a few heavy numbers) in '68, and Blue Cheer again in '68.

Seeing as jazz had the first use of blast beat and jazz is definately not the precursor to death metal, grindcore, black metal etc. I don't see how Coven can be the precursor to such genres.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 20:19pm


Unblack metal is a black metal subgenre.

As for the Crow situation, I don't know what was going down in Tony's head when he claimed that.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 20:34pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4yTZqvrQdY

And for the record you didn't need a liquid show to be a psychedelia band(which Coven are) because bands that weren't hippie bands had them. Led Zeppelin had one on thier tour with Iron Butterfly which can be seen in this footage and I don't think anyone would call LZ a hippie band.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 20:51pm


The Liquid stage show means nothing.. Coven DID NOT have such a background..they had flames which was atmospheric to the music, and Lyrics AND stage show.

Concerning Michael Moynihan, those titles were branded upon him.. but later they were dismissed.. might want to get your facts correct.

Just because one band has a so called " hippie fluff" does not mean any thing, in that train of thought, even though Black Sabbath, were ANTI HIPPIE.. I can say the very same thing for the song " Children of the Grave " which has lyrics concerning, peace and love.. That is why you explore before putting in category.

You obviously have no understanding for what was considered as " heavy metal " at the time. and No I do NOT see Rainbow as a metal band.. Hard Rock at the least. What they put out after DIO ( whom I can NOT take seriously ) was FAR from metal. I find Hawkwind far heavier than Sabbath and Rainbow. Sabbath were more " Teeny Bopers " with their HUGE teenage following.. not really my style. And none of the band members wanted that..again, read the Black Sabbath history book. I respect Sabbath to extent.. just keep the dang stories straight..

Simple. NO BAND at the time in Rock and Roll had ever recorded a Blast Beat. Not Zeppelin, nor Purple, Nor Sabbath, Nor GFR, Nor Bloodrock, nor Blue Cheer, Nor Iron Butterfly, Nor I could continue.. but it would be pointless.. NO BAND had ever touched it in Rock and Roll other than Coven's drummer Steve Ross. WHICH is very important in those metal genre's today. Jazz influence or not, really does not matter, it was done FIRST in rock and roll, by Steve Ross from Coven.

unblack metal is not considered " Black Metal "

" As for the Crow situation, I don't know what was going down in Tony's head when he claimed that."
A.R: Simple answer, none of those Sabbath boys can keep a story straight. One book tells you one thing, the next one has something totally different.. and then in the DVD's or VHS.. its circular with them, Contradicting interviews and what is printed in books.

Again, that is based on nothing more than your opinion on the sound of Coven that they were a "psychedelia " band. Which is NOT the case, if they were, they would have had a HUGE hippie following, which they DID NOT. Hippies steered clear of bands like Coven.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 22:34pm


Why is it that when ever I mention Coven as being psychedelic rock(jazz influenced psychedelic rock at that) you mention thier fan base, lyrics, and show. I noticed you never mention thier music which is psychedelic.

Michael Moynihan has absolutely no credibility a music journalist. Seeing as nazis are more important to him than metal.

At the time Aerosmith, Humble Pie, Ted Nugent, BTO, Heart, Pat Travers, etc. were all miscast as metal artists which they obviously were not. Hawkwind were a space rock band and they set a blue print for punk. Johnny Rotten once said that there wouldn't have been a Sex Pistols if it wasn't for "Brainstorm". Thier song "Motorhead" even appeared on Mojo- Trash! The Roots of punk.

"What they put out after DIO ( whom I can NOT take seriously ) was FAR from metal"-A.R.

Everything post-RJD isn't metal, but there is no denying that RJD era Rainbow is metal. And I find your hatred RJD uncalled. If you don't like his song writing or his music fine, DON'T LISTEN TO IT, we already went over this. I'm not just going to say,"I don't take Coven seriously" because they put a random 13 "mass" on an album.

I can find cookie monster vocals on Who songs and the Who are definately not the precursors to death metal. My point is having one characteristic of a genre does not make you the precursor to such a genre.

Unblack Metal is a black metal subgenre.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 18:28pm


Actually, Tony Williams (drummer for Miles Davis) is considered the true pioneer of the "Blast Beat"...and since Davis IS in the HoF for "Jazz/Rock Fusion", I guess we could say Williams was the first to do it in rock...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 21:20pm


Dudeman: Unblack metal is NOT considered any part of " Black Metal ". You might want to research that a little more. If that were the case, I'm sure such band as ZAO whom are christian fall in that " genre ". Even UNBLACK metal musicians do not classify themselves as " Black Metal"

Again, it is YOUR opinion they are psychedelic.. I do not put music in category. I think Billy Joel pretty much summed it up.. " It's still rock and roll to me " . "Space Rock" whatever does not apply to me.. And Hawkwind ARE far heavier than Sabbath and Rainbow. Again Sabbath were more Teeny Bopers than anything because of the HUGE teenage following they had.. not my style. And I certainly do NOT see Coven as a psychedelic band..

I never said I hated Ronnie James Dio, I said I can not take him seriously. I outgrew Dungeons and Dragons yrs ago.. it would seem at his age, he would try to also, and be a little more original.

Daemon: There are several forms of " Blast Beat" we all know that it is jazz influenced. However.. Steve Ross took it as it is heard today in those metal bands of that " Category ".

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 11:12am


Unblack metal is a form of black metal. Jayson Sherlock basically said he wanted to bring some hope to the rather "bleak" world of black metal.

Hawkwind even had "Space Rock" written on thier posters, but you can keep your opinion thier genre as I can keep mine. I do however consider one of Simon House's earlier bands, High Tide, metal.

Once again if you if don't like "Dragon rock" don't listen to it. He has the right to write about what he enjoys. Coven can write whatever pre-spinal tap "Satanic Mass" they want. We already went over this.

"However.. Steve Ross took it as it is heard today in those metal bands of that " Category "."- A.R.

How so?

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 21:31pm


Concerning the Blast Beat:"When playing a blast beat, a drummer alternates very quickly between the bass and snare drum." Found in Mentioned Coven song. And there is a cover of the song on youtube by band called Portrait.. Live... the blast beat is there as it was in 1969 on the Witchcraft album.

Musicians of the " UNBLACK " metal as it is called, want NO association with what is " black metal " and therefore do not consider themselves " Black Metal ". As I said, If we go by that, then bands such as ZAO, FATA ( From Autumn To Ashes ) and many more would qualify into that " Category "

And Again, I do not go by " Categories " or Genre's.. Hawkwind.. even if considered " Space Rock " FAR heavier than Black Sabbath and Rainbow. as were many of the bands of that time..

Concerning DIO: And I do not listen to him, I have his work on Vinyl from the Rainbow years, one DIO Sabbath related album.. and it is " The DIO years " and the Holy Diver album which is on cassette.. which tells you how interested in his music I really am.. never found a need to get it on CD. The only ONLY song I recall being remembered is " Rainbow in the Dark " the rest of that album sounds like one LONG song constantly repeating its self. all sit collecting dust, because again, Can not take the man seriously. As mentioned in conversation before.. You heard one Janis or Stevie song.. you heard them all.. the same with DIO.. music wise, Vocally, AND Lyrically.

I have never heard the term " Dragon Rock " Again because categories do not apply to me.. Is this something you made up to categorize music esp that of his... because well it fits..

Posted by A.R. on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 01:31am


How do you consider ZAO and From Autumn to Ashes unblack metal?

If you don't put things into categories than why do you class Alice Cooper as glam rock or Rainbow as hard rock or Coven as not being psychedelic rock? Hypocrisy perhaps.

"as were many of the bands of that time.."- A.R.

Name five.

You criticise Janis Joplin, Stevie Nicks, and Ronnie James Dio, yet you think Coven are a real source of originality? lol.

No, "Dragon Rock" is not a real genre. It's just a term I came across while looking through an Rainbow album review.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 21:31pm


How do I consider ZAO and FATA unblack Metal.. their early stuff speaks for its self. I really do not care about christian bands.. however ZAO is about the only one I really listen to, and with their earlier albums like.. " Where blood and fire bring rest " or the S/T album, or even newer one " The Funeral of God.. all would qualify as Unblack metal.. if they were to be put in that category. Living Sacrifice would be another band to fall in that category. I do not remember the FATA album I heard.. I just remember the stand out track from it all " Short Stories with Tragic Endings " the song was totally different from everything else that is on the album.

I do not classify Alice Cooper as Glam.. his early stuff is just that.. and when the man himself says his stuff was glam rock.. thats all I need, not gonna argue any different. And again, I do not see Rainbow as metal.. again there were far heavier acts out there, and Rainbow was not one of them.

I have never criticised Janis Joplin or Stevie Nicks.. in fact, I love Janis Joplin, and some what care for Stevie.. however fact is fact.. and the same with DIO.. you heard one song, you heard them all.. You do not get that with COVEN. Jinx has one hell of a vocal range, and you get a little of EVERYTHING on COVEN albums.. Rock and Roll, Country, Blues....Coven were very original. All other bands had Cover songs on their albums.. Not Coven on the release of their Debut. The Release of the second album, nothing like the " Witchcraft " album.. which is because the company wanted MORE radio hits..Something Coven did not want to be.. a top 40 band. Then you get Blood on the Snow..1974 Which by the way, Is pretty " Loud " and Looking at the inside Jacket of the album Coven's guitarist, Chris Neilsen.. in 1982.. Ozzy took VERY similar photo's for his " Speak of the Devil " album.. in fact down to the hooded character ( Steve Ross is wearing a robe on the inside jacket also ) that he called Ronnie as in joke to DIO.. taken 8 years AFTER Coven. Anyways back on Topic.. With Coven's Blood on the Snow, you get elements of Both releases in one album..
When you get to Metal Goth Queen.. you have the Heaviness of Tommy Bolin's playing.. Jinx's Vocals are astonishing. plus Glen Cornick and Michael Monarch.. and I can guarantee you SEVERAL songs off that album would have been big hits.. and there is talk about missing tapes that Coven recorded with Todd Rundgren's Utopia... Hopefully these will be found and released. That tells me everything I need to know.... Coven were a big name, especially amongst other musicians.
Now do we need to get into the originality of the Coven Stage Show? and go from there?

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 05:22am


Not every Christian metal band is an unblack metal band. If we go by that logic than Avenged Sevenfold and Stryper would be black metal bands and that wouldn't make any sense at all.

Hawkwind class themselves as "Space Rock" and you don't believe them, yet when Alice classes himself as glam you agree. Hypocrisy.

And I'm guessing you never saw metal rules "Top 100 Heavy Metal albums" list which did feature a Rainbow album. And who do you consider heavier than early Rainbow and Sabbath(if you say Savage Resurrection or Coven I'll laugh.)

If Coven didn't want to be a top 40 band than they wouldn't have done "One Tin Soldier" to begin with.

Tommy Bolin NEVER played metal. I'm guessing you never listened to that rhythm and blues, funk album Come Taste the Band. And I seriously doubt Coven would have had any had hits if Metal Goth Queen(I still disagree with the first word in that title) was released at the right time. I know that you being a fan you would like to believe these ludicrous statements, but it wouldn't have happened.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 09:48am


LOL there are BIG Differences between A7X and Stryper compared to other christian bands such as ZAO.

I never said I didn't believe Hawkwind. I said.. Categories DO NOT apply to me, I could care less the category. And NO its NOT hypocritical to AGREE with Alice Cooper, when he specifically say's he his early stuff WAS glam rock.

You want bands I see FAR heavier than Rainbow.. Sure lets have a round at that.. Deep Purple, Sir Lord Baltimore, Grand Funk Railroad, Leaf Hound, even Lynyrd Skynyrd.. HEAVIER than Rainbow, UFO, Pentagram ( yes they were around then ) Uriah Heep, Lucifer's Friend, Blue Oyster Cult, Ted Nugent, Judas Priest, Need I continue making really long lists?

Again COVEN did NOT do One Tin Soldier, it was a solo project that JINX did, she just asked that COVEN be listed. The band DID re-record it, and is found on the Coven II album. AFTER the initial release of the solo project by Jinx.

Apparently you know nothing of Tommy's work BEFORE Deep Purple and After, And yes I can most certainly guarantee you that Metal Goth Queen had it been released in the 70's would have SEVERAL BIG hits. Esp in the New York Area... The underground club scene.. AND at the arrival of New Wave.. thing is Dude Man.. I can back up every statement I make.. and you can disagree with the Metal in that title all you want... the album IS heavy.. and contains tracks that Jinx was steering the band into a new direction AFTER Blood on the Snow.

Posted by A.R. on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 12:59pm


I class Zao in the same genre as Avenged. Metalcore. Care to explain how you see them as unblack metal?

As far as the bands you mentioned being heavier than early Rainbow this is how I see it:

Deep Purple- I would call early '70s Mark 2 a little bit heavier than Rainbow.
Sir Lord Baltimore- SLB are heavier.
Grand Funk- They were a great band, but they were never metal. Rainbow is heavier.
Leaf Hound- More of a classic, obscure, hard rock band. Again Rainbow is heavier.
Lynyrd Skynyrd- LOL
UFO- About even. Though UFO's early stuff is pretty spacey.
Pentagram- Pentagram is heavier and that goes for Doom Metal in general.
Uriah Heep- Depends on what Uriah Heep you're listening to. Thier softer work ("The Wizard", "Lady in Black", etc.) or thier heavier stuff("Easy Livin'", "Gypsy", etc.). I would call thier heavier work even with Rainbow.
Lucifer's Friend- Thier first album actually sounds alot like an earlier version Rainbow(John Lawton's voice does sound alot like RJD before RJD.), but on thier second album they did lose a lot of thier heaviness.
Blue Oyster Cult- Again it depends on what BOC you're looking at. Thier heavy material("Cities on Flame", "Transmaniacon MC", "Godzilla", etc.) or someof thier poppier material("Joan Crawford", "Burnin' for You", etc.) I would call Rainbow equally as heavy as Black side Tyranny and Mutation.
Ted Nugent- I think Ted is a good example of how the term was misused in the early days of the genre. Rainbow heavier.
Judas Priest- Agreed Priest is heavier.

Why don't I just quote you on "One Tin Soldier", "Ahh Dude Man, that is where you are wrong, it was sung by Jinx yes.. HOWEVER she did have it listed as Coven as the band.. So its not really tech a solo project. "

Zephyr was not a metal band nor was James Gang. Tommy Bolin was never a metal musician. And I still don't think "Metal Goth Queen" would have had any hits and I will still never call Coven heavy.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 14:31pm


Again, you DO NOT know of early ZAO, which would classify if you will, as you put music in category, as UNBLACK metal.

Actually tech it IS a solo project.. because Coven DID NOT play on the single. That did not come about until the re-recording AFTER the release of the Single by Jinx.

And you can think that " Metal Goth Queen " would have no hits.. However, that is NOT the case.. songs like " Star Crossed, Out of the Rain, Night People " would have been VERY big hits esp the arrival of the New Wave category. I can safely say, you have never heard them, so you can not tech speaking.. claim there would be no hits. The ONLY way to hear them, is from the album. And from my understanding, Tommy Bolin fans are flocking to the album.. because it IS his last recording.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 16:06pm


No, they are not christian black metal band.

So you take back your own words.

It wouldn't have had any hits, your delusional. Your thinking like a fan. Are you familiar with Screaming Lord Sutch? He used to have all-star musicians on his albums(Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, John Bonham, Keith Moon, Noel Redding, etc.) and they hardly sold at all.

And as far as being precursors to goth rock, I also say they have no case to be the "seed" in that department either. The Velvet Underground had an album out 2 years before them.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 20:06pm


See. you make a claim on something that you have not even heard, talk about me being delusional.. see the thing is.. I know those scene's VERY well.. and they would have been HUGE hits. So you talk about things you do not know.

Again, you know NOTHING of the early stuff from ZAO.. the sound OR Image.. might want to research and listen for yourself, before making false claims...

And since when is the Velvet Underground considered " Gothic " are you for real???

And since you are so dead set on saying that Coven or Jinx, do not deserve the title Goth Queen.. I would like a list of female musicians of the late 60's and early 70's that wore black, inverted cross's, which is big in the Gothic image, along with pentagrams and such....pale makeup with heavy black around the eyes..needless to say to look like one of the " living dead" who came out on stage in a coffin, who had Candles and a ritual table on stage, along with Nooses, and such, and one that had a live Jesus on the cross, that inverted it at the end of the show.. whom had a dark overtone in lyrics, regarding a diabolical subject matter, related to Satanism and Witchcraft, and anti-religion.. All of these things I ask for you to name.. go into the Gothic Image and Persona.. I will be waiting...... Then I MIGHT begin to take you seriously on your claims. And how Jinx does not apply as THE Goth Queen, and " Heavy " regarding Coven.

The major problem I see with you is this: When someone says the word " heavy " you apply it to " metal ". THAT IS NOT THE CASE.. Back in the day.. one might hear someone say " Boy that Janis Joplin sure is heavy " or " Did you see that Jefferson Airplane show, it was one heavy trip ". And Coven were a HEAVY Occult Rock Theatrical Band.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 22:59pm


For Dude Man I guess his Metal Goth Queen would be either Ozzy, Dio or Alice...

But then, they all are sort of Queens...

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 07:45am


Have you ever wondered why thier first three albums flopped? It wouldn't have had any hits, trust me.

The VU can be considered precursors to goth rock(even though they are also very influencial to punk) because one they usually weared all black and for thier usually dark and depressing themes.

Again today we do not use the old beatnik definition of "heavy". And I find it funny that you finally put Coven in the same cateogory as Jefferson Airplane.

"For Dude Man I guess his Metal Goth Queen would be either Ozzy, Dio or Alice...

But then, they all are sort of Queens..."

???

This conversation is starting to bore me and I have very little interest in carrying on with this conversation.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 13:55pm


Hmm, Last time I checked, I did not put them in the same category.. I stated examples of how the word " heavy " was and still is applied to, and not in context to " Heavy Metal ".

Hmmm Big difference I am pretty sure between Goth Rock and Goth Metal.. Goth Rock would be bands like, Bauhaus, the Cure.. however the VU were NOT Goth..

Come on Dude, you are so dead set on saying Jinx and or Coven do not deserve the Title's " Heavy " " Metal " Or "Goth Queen" I am sure you could find bands with that kind of stage show, lyrics, and Image, and actually lived the lifestyle.. in the Late 60's and early 70's.. Good Luck with that..
And throwing this out there by your own logic, by placing music in category.. Coven are in fact the seed to " Heavy Metal " because remember... Metal came about from the blues and psychedelic bands of the time... and you classify Coven as Psychedelic. And it just so happens that in 1970.. the " god fathers " of metal Black Sabbath.. took on the Image and lyric styles.. esp around involvement in the Occult.. I find it funny that you disagree with that.. but the band memebers themself CONFIRM that fact in many interviews.. and books.. as told by them..
Because if those guys would continue to play what they were playing in 1969... Late 69 when they became Black Sabbath.. they would NOT be the " god fathers " of metal...
And here is a fact for you, their first single.. was NOT heavy nor considered it.. because there are 2 versions out there.. the Vertigo / Warner release... BUT the FIRST release sounds very much like Crow's version. WITH HORNS. Here is the catalog number for you.. Evil Woman/Wicked World (Fontana TF 1067) 1969
I can say this with confidence, because I got my hands on ALL the Earth / Black Sabbath demo's BEFORE the recording of the S/T album.. And also the recordings of the FIRST show under the name Black Sabbath.. I do not care for Lester Bangs.. but I agree with his statement in comparing Coven and Cream to the sound and image and such to Black Sabbath.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 15:39pm


I never said goth rock and goth metal were the same genre and the VU can be described as precursors to goth rock. As you would put it the "seed" has been planted.

Blue Cheer and Iron Butterfly both had albums out BEFORE Coven. Making them the REAL seeds.

Coven music is not metal in anyway, shape, or form. Listen to it for a few hours and then listen to some of the heavy metal bands of the time(Cheer, Sabbath, Zep, Purple, etc.) and you won't hear a single freaking musical connextion! Michael Moynihan(who I still think has no reason to be in the field of music journalism) calling them "black metal pioneers" or whatever is laughable.

I really hope this my last post on this page. And besides didn't we already have this debate. Coven are never getting in anyway.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 16:47pm


"and you are mistaken on the Lester Bangs piece. He never compared them to Cream. He said from the same place as cream.."- A.R.

According to you Lester Bangs wasn't comparing Sabbath to Cream. Now you take it back?

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 16:53pm


Again dude, big difference between Goth ROCK and Goth METAL..

And again, Does not matter if Blue Cheer, or Iron Butterfly had albums out BEFORE Coven.. the FACT of the matter is, 1969 Coven CHANGED the shape of "metal" lyrically... in 1970.. Sab carried on the SAME Image and Lyric styling, until they got scared by Coven... and changed to a more " christian " acceptance with the Master of Reality album.. with the song " After Forever " . And Still by your logic.. Coven were a psychedelic band.. therefore it STILL makes them the seeds of metal, because that " category " of music spawned metal, along with blues.. no denying that fact. Blue Cheer, Iron Butterfly, Zeppelin, and many others DID NOT cover the lyrics, atmosphere, and theme's that Coven did.. but in 1970.. enter Black Sabbath...whom did.. and that VERY SAME theme is Covered and shown in " Metal " bands today.

Again you base claim's on your opinions.. lets take the FACTS of Black Metal..
Inverted Crosses - Coven Had that
Anti - Religious themed lyrics and stage show : Yup Coven had that also.
Corpse paint, before its time.. Yup Coven covered that.
Many " Black Metal " bands have satanic themes.. again Coven had that. and Opposition to Christianity.. Again Coven for the win.
" blast beat " Yup Coven had that also.
Screams and Snarls from the lead singer / Vocalist.. Yup, Jinx Covered that also.
Do I need to Continue? because the list is very long.. and whats the matter, can not prove me wrong and you right on the Goth METAL and or the Goth Queen effort? Shouldnt be hard to do..

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 17:02pm


I DO believe Bangs said.. "Over across the tracks in the industrial side of Cream country lie unskilled laborers like Black Sabbath, which was hyped as a rockin' ritual celebration of the Satanic mass or some such claptrap, something like England's answer to Coven." and further down it says and I do quote " or anything much except stiff recitations of Cream cliches that sound like the musicians learned them out of a book, grinding on and on with dogged persistence. Vocals are sparse, most of the album being filled with plodding bass lines over which the lead guitar dribbles wooden Claptonisms from the master's tiredest Cream days. They even have discordant jams with bass and guitar reeling like velocitized speedfreaks all over each other's musical perimeters yet never quite finding synch—just like Cream! But worse."
And YES he did compare them to Cream.. but called them WORSE.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 17:07pm


My favorite part of the above piece is.."Over across the tracks in the industrial side of Cream country lie unskilled laborers like Black Sabbath, which was hyped as a rockin' ritual celebration of the Satanic mass or some such claptrap, something like England's answer to Coven."
YES that is RIGHT.. ENGLAND's answer to COVEN.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 17:13pm


"Again dude, big difference between Goth ROCK and Goth METAL"- A.R.

Didn't I just say that?

Can you please stick to one story? First you say "One Tin Soldier" is a Coven song, then you say it's a solo project. First you say Lester Bangs didn't compare Sabbath to Cream, then you say he did. You critize Sabbath for not keeping a story straight, yet neither can you.

How can you be a seed if the tree is already growing, so to speak. And don't you class Iron Butterfly as a psychedelic band, so by your logic they were part of the genre that spawned metal.. "no denying that".

And as far as your "FACTS of Black Metal":
-Nothing to do with with music.
-Disproven again because of the christian black metal bands.
-Nothing to do with music again.
-Are you basically rewording being "anti christian" or "satanic". And so had Robert Johnson.
-You reworded it for a third time.
-So does jazz.
-Joplin was a much louder screamer and in no way are BB&HC the precursors to black metal.

Can we please end this already. You won't change your opinion and neither will I.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 18:09pm


Quote above:"First you say "One Tin Soldier" is a Coven song, then you say it's a solo project."

CORRECT answer:Let us categorize "One Tin Soldier" properly, it was under record stores' "genre" tags as hit "Movie Soundtracks/Movie Title song."

It just happens that Coven's singer first sang the song for the Warners film soundtrack with the full soundtrack orchestra.So it's not really a solo project nor a Coven song.Its a film title song.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 18:44pm


Look Dude Man, again there are 2 versions of " One Tin " and both DO NOT sound the same.. because:
1. One is a solo project by JINX DAWSON, she asked the Coven be listed. even at the end of the Billy Jack film.. it says " SUNG BY : Jinx Dawson.. OF COVEN" there for it is a solo project.
2. Coven re-recorded the song on their second album..released AFTER the initial release of the solo single by Jinx..One is Jinx.. the other is COVEN.. hard to grasp? Shouldn't be. SO you might want to scroll back up and re read it all.. cause looks like you are going for the straw man arguments..

Iron Butterfly DOES classify AS one of the " psychedelic " bands of the time.. lets have a looksie: From Wikipedia:"Iron Butterfly is an American psychedelic rock"
From Allmusic:"The heavy, psychedelic acid rock of Iron Butterfly"
Sorry they are " psychedelic ".
Seriously Dude Man: LETS get into the foundations and basics of Black Metal if you want to.. And again, I find it funny that you classify UNBLACK metal as in the Black Metal Category.. WHY am I not Suprised..
"Black metal artists typically appear dressed in black with combat boots, bullet belts, spiked wristbands, and inverted crosses/inverted pentagrams to reinforce their anti-Christian or anti-religious stance."
Me: Yup Coven did that, minus the combat boots, but I am pretty sure they did wear them..
The most common and founding lyrical theme is opposition to Christianity
Me: Yup Coven Covered that also,
Black metal has been met with considerable hostility from mainstream culture, mainly due to the misanthropic and anti-Christian ideology of many artists.
Me: yup Coven was there first.
lack metal compositions commonly deviate from conventional song structure and are often devoid of clear verse-chorus sections. Instead, many black metal songs contain extended and repetitive instrumental sections.
Me: yup Coven again for the win.
As part of this, many artists write lyrics that could be seen to promote atheism, antitheism, paganism and Satanism. Other themes that are commonly explored include depression, nihilism, misanthropy and death. However, some black metal artists write lyrics that are inspired by winter, nature, mythology, folklore and fantasy narratives.
Me: Yup Yup Coven were there First.
Do I need to Continue??

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 18:57pm


And hey by your own logic.. I said it before by putting Coven into the "psychedelic" category, that still qualifies them as SEEDS of Heavy Metal.. because again, Metal is a spawn of Blues and Psychedelic Rock.. you put them there.. so you know either way, still qualifies them as " seeds " or roots.

Why beating around the bush, and avoiding your chance to debunk Jinx and Coven? its a perfect opportunity.. If you can name Musicians or Bands of the late 60's and early 70's that have the gothic image and look, and style in lyrics, that lived the lifestyle, let me put it this way.. that ones that pretty much walked the walk, and talked the talk.. or female musicians that wore black, inverted crosses or pentagrams, pale makeup and deep black around the eyes, lipstick and what have you...and lived the gothic lifestyle.. Had a opposition to religion. Should be easy to do when you state your opinion.. which is NOT fact. Just a mere opinion...

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 19:10pm


You cut off half that sentence from wikipedia. It says, "Iron Butterfly is an American psychedelic rock and early heavy metal band"(and if you are going to use wikipedia well than it classes Witchcraft as a psychedelic rock album) and one of the styles Allmusic lists under Iron Butterfly is heavy metal(and I am familiar with thier softer work as well). If Doug Ingle played on "Metal Goth Queen" I'm sure you would glad be to class some of Iron Butterfly's material as "metal".

Seeds already planted in goth rock and heavy metal. Coven has zero case to be made in either.

What makes you think every goth metal band is satanic. Even if Evanescence will never admit it, they basically were a Christian band in the beginning.

Coven still has zero chance of getting inducted.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 19:55pm


And using your def. of metal Coven, Grand Funk, Ted Nugent, Warhorse, Leaf Hound, Savage Resurection, Bloodrock, Wild Turkey, Zephyr, James Gang, etc. would all count as metal(and early Rainbow wouldn't) which makes no sense.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 20:04pm


And you consider Amy Lee and or Evanescence to be goth? that's a joke.. really it is.. they are
listed as a " rock " band... not considered Goth..

Dude Man, the only way it seem's to sum " Goth " up for you even in the late 60's.. there was a daytime show, some consider it a soap opera, some do not.. called " Dark Shadows ".. and in that show, which was GOTHIC, dealt with many thing Occult related.. Satanism, Vampires, Witchcraft, and even today in the " Gothic " culture.. those very things are part of the lifestyle..

Again.. EARLY Heavy Metal, since you brought that up.. that would be considered, Blues sound and based, with psychedelic rock.... which Iron Butterfly WERE..
and what does it say BEFORE " psychedelia " it says .. HARD ROCK... Ahhhhhh

Again, Compared to the bands at the time, I am going to exclude Coven for this... they were HEAVIER than Rainbow.. I said I see Rainbow more " Hard Rock " than metal... which the case now especially TODAY... its hard rock

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 20:31pm


This whole conversation has been meaningless genre debate. Whether this is metal, this is psychedelic, this is the difference between goth metal and goth rock, this band was never this, this band is the precursor to this, etc., etc., yadda, yadda, yadda.

As far as I'm concern this debate is over. Coven will never get in. Philip's right, "Coven has no shot of making the Hall. Plain and simple. And they don't belong."

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 21:03pm


To Dude Man:I hope your debate is over.YOU are the genre man.The genre debate is ridiculous.Many bands do many different kinds of music through their careers.
And genres are just a useless waste of time to put music in cubicles.

For some reason the "Metal Goth Queen" title of their CD bothers you.Like A.R. above asks,NAME another chick singer that did goth or metal music before there was EVEN a genre of those names.Give us ONE name.PLEASE!

Hail Satan.Hail Coven and Coven Horns Up to ya.

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 22:08pm


Personally, I don't even care if Coven gets into the Hall. As a fan of Coven, it doesn't matter one whit to me. I don't care if no one else likes 'em but me. If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand. "Wicked Woman" is a f*cking great song as far as I'm concerned.

The Hall can screw off. What a stupid pile of sh*t the Rock Hall of Fame is. Johnny Rotten dissed it when the Sex Pistols were inducted.

G.G. Allan. David Allan Coe. Will they get inducted? No!

Just the fact that Coven isn't in... is a point in their favor. Period.

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 00:10am


And for the record, I'm growing fatigued over the micro-genre-obsessed thoughts conveyed in some of the posts on this page. Is this band metal? Is this band goth? Who gives a sh*t? Ha! You guys couldn't get a decent party goin' if your life depended upon it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm glad you don't like Coven. We don't need ya. Kiss Dio's ass and rot.

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 00:19am


"The Hall can screw off. What a stupid pile of sh*t the Rock Hall of Fame is. Johnny Rotten dissed it when the Sex Pistols were inducted.
.....
Just the fact that Coven isn't in... is a point in their favor. Period."

Pay attention, boys and girls... this is a variation on what is known as the classic "Reverse Credibility" argument. This is the argument that says the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame has no relevance/credibility/meaning if their favorite artist isn't. It is a variation this classic argument, because unlike the classic cases, this post isn't in all caps, is spelled correctly, and contains no online acronyms/leet. To give an example of a classic case, I'll use Deep Purple.

"OMFG! THE HALL IS A JOKE!! HOW CAN TEHY CALL IT A "ROCK AND ROLL" HALL OF FAME AND LEAVE OUT DEEP PURPLE?!?!?!?!! SMOKE ON THE WATER IS THE GREETAST SONG EVER< AND DEEP PURPLE WERE EVERTHING!! THERE WILL BE NO PEACE ON EARTH UNTIL DEEP PURPLE IS INDUTED INTO THE HALL F FAME! ON SECOND THOUGHT, FORGET IT! DEEP PURPLE IS TOO GOOD FOR TEH HALL. THEY"RE GODS! LONG LIVVE DEEP PURPLE!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOL"

Now, since the Coven defender used better netiquette, we are tempted to lend greater credibility to their argument, except upon closer inspection, we see that the post itself.

The upside in debating this kind of statement is that it's an easy win upon cursory glance, especially since people who make this kind of post are one-post flamers. The downside is that if the poster actually return, they continue to lead with emotions, and usually turn their anger towards the poster who dares refute the argument. This is because it is inconceivable to them that their could be anyone out there who actually disagrees with them, and believes that either their argument is weak or weakly made, that the artist does not deserve induction, or worst of all, that they don't like the artist in question. This is tantamount to heresy for them--strike that, it IS heresy to them, and often evokes a hypercritical, enraged outburst. These outbursts have a tendency to merit a left-handed apology, such as "I'm sorry, but..." followed by continued rational discourse. This is useless against the flamer, who will ultimately lose, but will be unable to recognize it or acknowledge it.

This concludes today's lecture on the "Reverse Credibility" argument. Your homework tonight is to find five "Reverse Credibility" posts that contain at least five spelling errors. Next session, we'll look at adaptations of the "Sledge Card". Class dismissed.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 00:43am


[PHILIP:] The upside in debating this kind of statement is that it's an easy win upon cursory glance, especially since people who make this kind of post are one-post flamers. The downside is that if the poster actually return...

[MATT:] I have returned, son... Yeah! But let's get to the nut of your critique:

A "Reverse Credibility" argument? I don't desire to argue with anyone. I like what I like ... and you like what you like... So mote it be, motherf*cker...

In all seriousness, I can't fathom how much time has been wasted by folks who don't like Coven who post their crap on this page. If you don't like it, cool... That's your option.

My message to Philip:

Why don't you just get the f*ck off this page if you hate Coven. Why are you here?

And the rest of you punks can also sod off.



Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 01:56am


[PHILIP:] "Reverse Credibility" argument. This is the argument that says the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame has no relevance/credibility/meaning if their favorite artist isn't.

[MATT:] You're an ass. Look it, I have a problem with the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame in concept... and it's not because my "favorite artist isn't" there. Zappa's in it... and I'm a RABID fan of his work. And there are many more. Just because some of my favorite artists are in there, doesn't contradict the fact that I hate the CONCEPT of the Hall itself.

I'm sure Zappa -- despite the fact he's in the Hall -- would deride that Hall to no end.

F*ck the Hall and f*ck you...

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 02:13am


Matt, thank you for illustrating my point, to a tee!

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 02:17am


And I thank you Philip for illustrating my point: you didn't get laid tonight so you're wasting your time sparring with me over Coven. Get a girl... now. LOL!!!

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 02:26am


Matt, you had no point, honestly, unless you're referring to the Dunce Cap on your head. First off, I'm not sparring with you over Coven. I was making fun of your earlier post, which wasn't so much about Coven per se, but a logical fallacy that crops up frequently on this site: the attitude that the artist validates the Hall, not the Hall validating the artist. Not entirely baseless, but hardly a good argument either. Second, you've committed another fallacy in trying to strengthen your argument: questioning the presence of dissenters (see also pages for Steve Perry, Madonna, and the Small Faces). This isn't a page for fans of Coven. This particular thread is about whether Coven deserves to be inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame. It is not a "fan page." Third, to answer your question as to why post... I'm at work, actually. Low key work, and it affords me the luxury of being able to slack off as such. Fourth, what does it say about you if you've got the time to reply to me? Could it be that it is in fact YOU who cannot get a girl? Lastly, if you despise the concept of a R&RHoF in the first place, as you claim, why do you troll on a site that is dedicated to discussion and prediction about who will and/or should be in the Hall? You contradict yourself by doing so.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 02:37am


In all seriousness, why aren't all of you Coven-haters having REAL fun tonight i.e. smoking crack, tappin' booboo or whatever. Are you motherfu*ckers so stupid to live that you'll keep this thread going on ad infinitum?

So...

Who's gonna get the last word? Who's gonna make the most profound statement? Who's gonna be a the BIG CHEESE? Are you guys serious?

Look, my advice to you all:

GET A LIFE. Go to the bar. Pick up a broad. Snort a line... whatever.

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 02:44am


And as we see, class, bereft of any actual response to the talking points made, the troll resorts to profanities, namecalling, and condescension. Said troll probably didn't even risk taxing their brains by actually reading and understanding the talking points made.

I said I'm at work. Murder, I can get away with. Drug use and sexual misconduct, not so much.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 02:49am


I'm not seeking to debate the issue. I merely posted my thoughts, Philip. Shave and go home.

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 07:15am


Philip says: "I was making fun of your earlier post, which wasn't so much about Coven per se, but a logical fallacy that crops up frequently on this site: the attitude that the artist validates the Hall, not the Hall validating the artist."

My response: "That's NOT my point at all. I don't think the Hall can be validated, PERIOD! It cannot even be validated by my favorite artists bing in it...

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 08:08am


"And as we see, class, bereft of any actual response to the talking points made..."

Talking points? What is this... the O'Reilly Factor?

In all seriousness, I cannot believe how much energy people waste on "rock"... The desire to debate every little point... Who cares?

Philip is looking for a debate... and I really don't care to debate anything...

I merely expressed that I think the Hall is lame. I don't have to defend that opinion and the fact I'm posting on here doesn't necessarily contradict that. And if you think so Philip, go back to whatever you do.

And to reiterate what I said before... I don't hate the Hall because it doesn't contain "my favorite artist" as Philip accused me of. Zappa was inducted a long time ago, and I positively love his music. See, I addressed that talking point Philip... but do I get a response relating to that? No.

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 08:19am


Philip's accusation of me doing a "Reverse Credibility" argument:

"This is the argument that says the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame has no relevance/credibility/meaning if their favorite artist isn't."

I declare his assessment INVALID due to the fact that MANY of my favorite artists are in there, to wit:

Frank Zappa,
The Velvet Underground,
The Stooges, etc...

However I still maintain the Hall -- in concept -- is silly.

TALKING POINT ADDRESSED!

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 08:34am


So...

Who's gonna get the last word? Who's gonna make the most profound statement? Who's gonna be a the BIG CHEESE? Are you guys serious?

Posted by Matt Flash on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 02:44am
--------------------------------------------------

"Who's gonna be a the big cheese?"

My last word is that this sounds like a great impression of Chico from the Marx Bros. (lol)

Just kidding Matt. BTW I liked the "O'Reilly factor" bit.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 09:11am


I truly do love this page, for all the right & wrong reasons. I'll take up Matt's comment about who get's the last word & run w/it. Now I know I'll not really have the last word, but here goes:

Like many others here, I honestly do not believe that Coven will ever make the Hall. In addition, even after you take all the info from nearly 1000 posts and put it all together, it still doesn't add up to a definitive portrait of anything super special. The problem here is not that they weren't influential on Ozzy/Sabbath, but that so many other acts of the same time & place were also jumping on the bandwagon.

Look, I wasn't there. I was born in the 70's, o.k. That being said, so many other acts I have heard down the line, some mentioned here (Iron Butterfly, Blue Cheer, Sabbath, Zep, Cooper) and others not even mentioned cause it's ridiculous to even think about a link to Coven, are all nonetheless trafficking in the same ideals, if not the exact same imagery. It's already been mentioned how the Beatles were chucking horns! At one point I brought up the Doors, who released before Coven. I made mention earlier about Morrison flirting w/that stuff, going so far as to marry a Wiccan witch, I believe. In addition, he was suggesting a link between ancient Greece & Roman gods w/rock & roll!

I'm not going to say that they all went down the same path as Jinx Dawson took. What I will say is that all manner of bands in 67/68/69/70/71/72 were invoking a sense of mysticism to their work, no doubt caused by the drugs of the time. The conditions were set across the board for just about anyone to get away w/this line about the occult. If Coven had pulled this jazz when Herman's Hermits were at the top of their game, then you might have a point about true innovation. More ----->

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 09:26am


In this entire Coven thread, there is an obvious generational break.Pre internet and post internet that is MOST disturbing.Post internet affords everyone their 15 minutes at any cost.A chance to get their say no matter whether they believe it or not, because one never knows who is really typing and what their agenda might be.But this is FALSE FREEDOM.

People now are famous for doing nothing substantial or innovative - American Idol contestants, Black Eyed Peas, Rap artists as Kanye West and others who surf the internet music myspaces for obscure songs they do not think they will get caught on,etc.

Before the internet, artists had no idea where their careers were going or if they even had one. There were few genres and artists did not set out necessarily to do a certain type of music, the business was still new. Now there are all these genres and classifications via "music myspaces",etc, as listing "what influences for your group and what genre to list".

This is ALL internet training for a fate worse than Hell.The TOTAL CONTROL of people and art.The fact that COVEN is still being censored today TOTALLY fascinates me and many others.That means the powers that be find something COVEN is DOING that bothers THEM, thus bothering YOU because YOU are now part of their PLANNED MACHINE.

That is why I believe there are so many "Coven clone"/Black Metal bands now.They are TIRED of slots and tired of being manipulated into "safe edge" commercial art.And you ARE right, COVEN will never be in the Hall of Fame because they are just too controversial and will NEVER be part of the machine.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 09:47am


(continued from previous) - I looked up Coven on YouTube, hoping for footage as well as songs. From what I have heard, it sounds like basic, credible hard rock for it's time & place. I will say that Dawson does have a very good voice. She can actually sing hard rock w/out always sounding screechy like some others I've heard.

Everyone likes to mention the stage show. Once again, I refer to Morrison & the Doors, who were perfecting the kind of dramatic stage show that others (including Coven) would adopt down the line, only they were doing it first. Between Morrison's invoking of ancient ceremonies, & Frisco's love-in tribal scene, it's all set up for Coven, or anybody, to run w/a Dungeons & Dragons fantasy as far as they want to. Now you could argue that Dawson took the whole "doom & gloom" end of it further than anyone at the time, but it's like saying Morrison took the Greek god theme (silly as it is) further than anyone. It's all of a piece, from what I see, and Dawson merely extended out on a single branch that others, eventually, extended further (i.e. Ozzy,Zeppelin, Cooper, etc.)

I'll leave it at this: somewhere out there I left a post on a page talking about the kind of basic hard rock acts that will never make it. I believed I mentioned Foghat, Ratt, Collective Soul. Even they have more success than Coven in the long run. None of them are getting in, I believe (though Collective Soul as the youngest may still have some gas in the tank to take it further). If Coven had left behind say, 6 or 7 albums of quality, wide ranging hard rock w/the kind of influences that everyone mentions, maybe they'd have been remembered more, and may really have had a chance. As it stands, from this ONE person's p.o.v., this was a band that laid out several albums that from a musical standpoint, worked a heavy psychedelic territory, while using the themes of the time. It extended them slightly further, but no enough to make the impact necessary to be remembered as an all-time immortal.

Quality hard rock - yes
good vocalist - yes

true 100% immortal material - probably not

but still pretty good hard rock - and that's nothing to sneeze at.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 09:48am


First - Lilith - If we are typing at exactly the same time, and you are bad mouthing me about Coven, rest assured I will take this into consideration. I may look like an idiot to you right now, but who knows, I may look brilliant after this post... of course, I may also look like the same shining example of a boy idiot afterwards, but I'll have to take my chances...

I do firmly agree w/you 100% on the effect the Internet can have. However, young folks today can also turn around and do great things w/it, i.e. attack all the old artists like they should. Instead, they suck up to them like they haven't got a clue of what to do. If you've read any of the posts I've left on other pages, you know I advocate the kids today, and like to find out what they are listening to. I bought my first records in the mid-80's, and my favorite music tends (mid-late 80's/early -mid 90's) to have come at a time when the Internet was not the ever-present arbiter of public taste.

That being said, there's precious little of Coven's stuff that intimidates me, nor do I fear for the artistic destruction of the country. Coven is not being censored in anyway so much as the band simply didn't last. Heck, I'm personally responsible for at least half of the yes votes on the Grant Lee Buffalo site, but I know full well it won't matter to anyone but those who either remember the time and place. I'd personally prefer a tremendous upswell for them, but deep down I know it won't happen.

I will admit to being frightened when I was 9 yrs old and saw the remake of "Invasionof the Body Snatchers" on tv. When Donald Sutherland let that scream out at the end, I didn't expect it, and I had nightmares. I had to stay home from school the next day cause I got no sleep that night.

Now that's scary! (lmao)

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 10:17am


To Cheesecrop: Very well spoken.But I am not talking about the "scary horror" stuff COVEN does.

I am talking about the anti religious views that are all too real for this religious/corporate/government slant going on right now.There is a deeper meaning to COVEN.(Interestingly enough the hit movie title song,One Tin Soldier, being discussed here so much, also falls into their anti religious beliefs "Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend,do it in the name of HEAVEN, you can JUSTIFY it in the end".)

If you compare say Dio and Black Sabbath, who wear regular crosses, stay away from anything too controversial ie "safe edge" to COVEN who goes to the first full ritual nudity and inverted crosses along with the very controversial nature of their lyrics.That Jinx lady has got "BALLS".And THAT is the attraction.

They were NOT able to do 5 or 6 albums because they were CENSORED and finally BANNED all together.But their 4 existing albums are a testament to a time when freedom of speech in music was allowed.

The establishment will give the public a little of that because they don't want people to realize they are being controlled through all this media.But COVEN always went too far representing full freedom of speech and religious views.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 11:45am


"Philip says: 'I was making fun of your earlier post, which wasn't so much about Coven per se, but a logical fallacy that crops up frequently on this site: the attitude that the artist validates the Hall, not the Hall validating the artist."

My response: "That's NOT my point at all. I don't think the Hall can be validated, PERIOD! It cannot even be validated by my favorite artists bing in it..."--Jumpin' Matt Flash, it's a gas, gas, gas.

Ok, but Coven is not. And from what I'm gathering, they are your favorite band, maybe musical act period. If not, oh well, but your post of saying Coven not being in the Hall is in Coven's favor... you're telling me that doesn't read like the majority of those other posts I referred to?

"In all seriousness, I cannot believe how much energy people waste on "rock"... The desire to debate every little point... Who cares?"

Apparently you do. You keep coming back for more.

"Philip is looking for a debate... and I really don't care to debate anything..."

I really wasn't looking for a debate in the first place either. I made a joke at the expense of your post, and apparently, your expense as well. I used your post because it was civilly stated, and I figured you'd have sense of humor enough to laugh, and maybe elucidate further. Well, you've explained your points further and better, but I will never mistake you for having a sense of humor again.

"I merely expressed that I think the Hall is lame. I don't have to defend that opinion and the fact I'm posting on here doesn't necessarily contradict that. And if you think so Philip, go back to whatever you do."

Or, hear me out... if I think so, I can refute your statements. I believe I have that freedom too, yes? IMO, the fact that you keep posting is contradicting yourself. Either way, I don't care. I like this forum. It's the first place where I've found people who like a lot of the same music I do, and dislike a lot of the same music I dislike. They've also broadened my horizons. It's only a "waste of time" if you're getting nothing out of it. I'm getting lots out of it, and I'm grateful to everyone here from Gitarzan to Dude Man to mrxyz to even Liam for providing that which I've gotten out of this place.

"And to reiterate what I said before... I don't hate the Hall because it doesn't contain "my favorite artist" as Philip accused me of. Zappa was inducted a long time ago, and I positively love his music. See, I addressed that talking point Philip... but do I get a response relating to that? No."

My apologies. You're right, you did address that point, and I thank you for that. However, I'd almost file that under "exceptions to the rule", but either way, it's immaterial if you think the Hall is silly in the first place.

However, I still maintain that your initial post read like a Reverse Credibility argument. Oh well.

P.S.-- the Stooges still aren't in. I wish they were, though. I hope this'll be their year.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 13:44pm


Lilith,

You make a great point with the Internet... however, I think is somewhat balanced out by the fact that there are SO MANY bands out there making use of the Internet. There simply aren't too many acts out there who've become megastars thanks primarily to the Internet. In all honesty, it's more like being inundated. Too much to take in, and the supply drowns out the demand for any one band, keeping them from really breaking through.

Just my opinion.


P.S. if anyone wants a REALLY good example of "Reverse Credibility", the link to the latest article about the Moody Blues is a good read... the last paragraph.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 13:48pm


Sleep late, and miss it all....
My favorite quote from Jim Morrison, " Whoever controls the media, controls the mind."
And that is the truth.

Cheesecrop: Coven were censored from the beginning. Church's had letter drives and such to get their album pulled, and to stop their anti-christian / religious stage show. And not only church's wanted Coven stopped, there were other organizations, and other people. Bill Trout claims he received huge amounts of letters a day, from people wanting the album pulled, and how the music and lyrics, especially the Satanic Mass,were far to dangerous. He claims to have let it ride out for a while, and replying to some of the letters.. THEN the photograph of Charles Manson holding the album came out, he claims he had to make part of the decision to pull the album. At first you could buy it but had to show your I.D because it was behind the counter, then later.. removed permanently from record stores. To my knowledge there has never been a album that was pulled and banned months after its release. And the band was censored in many ways.. from not allowed to speak in English.. to having items removed from their stage show....



Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 13:59pm


I could see where the issue about Coven's stage presence would start to show up in 69/70/71, etc. What I must question is the effect Coven may have had at a later date.

Certainly by the early 80's, the whole brou-ha-ha over evil symbols and such would have faded. Heck, all my friends knew Ozzy by the mid-80's, and we all saw the "Bark At The Moon" video when we were young. I know that's not the best example, but I think you get my point. At that time, all manner of 60's rockers were coming out of the woodwork. One of my favorites was Roky Erickson, who was able to snag a recording deal, and this after he had claimed for yrs. there was a martian living in his body!

I guess I'm wondering, w/all the new labels left over from the punk explosion, and a general upswing in 60's nostalgia, why Coven, or at least a solo Jinx, never sought to continue on in those mediums... it would seem that if they were willing to give Roky (& Sky Saxon from the Seeds, another notable wildman) a chance, Dawson would have fit right in, especially as a forebearer to the big 80's metal scene...

just a thought.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 16:40pm


I see your point and understanding.. The " Bark at the Moon " video reminds me of Black Sabbath's " Zero the Hero " video.. and quite frankly scared me as a kid. Ozzy's video was a piece of cake compared to that video.. and Sab's other Video, that I can recall "Trashed". The imagery and lyrics were far scarier in 83/84 with them, than it ever was with Ozzy or Dio.. Ian Gillian brought Sab to the MTV age with the Born Again album. and both the Image and lyric stylings, were somewhat accepted in the 80's THEN enter the PMRC that had the " Parental Advisory " label, just as a way to try to censor music. which personally made me wanna buy the albums..

Jinx could have had a huge solo career, in fact she was asked to go solo.. but she did not want that. she did record a 45 with her name on it.. Drive me Crazy on Buddha records. There has always been controversy surrounding Jinx and Coven. Then she left all of that behind ( Acting and Music ) to care for her ailing father, whom she kept alive longer than the dr's expected. All these other bands, had it covered, they were doing what had already been done by Coven.

Posted by A.R. on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 17:03pm


I find this forum funny. Coven has more votes than 70% of the hopefuls is my guess.. Are you feelng OK out there..??/ Coven has no chance of getting in.. Tiny Tim or Annette will get in before them... {I HOPE} and they made a bigger impac in music /rock etc also.than Coven
It is strange that "COVEN" has more votes than "real hopefuls" on this forum.. It makes it "diffacult" to have a civil meaningful conversation about "real talent" and rock triva with this type of voting audience lol




Posted by mrxyz on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 11:15am


mrxyz... sssshhh... this thread has finally died down.... let it rest in peace please.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 17:27pm


Every time you sexy little fan boys do the "Sign of the Horns", just REMEMBER what BAND did it FIRST.

Wrap your head around THAT.

Love and kisses,Diamond Lil

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 11:36am


The Beatles of course.

*ducks*

Sorry, Lil, I don't do the Sign of the Horns. I always put the thumb out to say "I Love You" when headbanging... because with music, it's all about the love.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 19:02pm


You know Philip, you are really pulling at thin strings with your post.

The Beatles NEVER did the "Sign of the Horns" as a band nor were they EVER photographed doing it.

The deaf's hand sign for love is a completely different sign and I don't really see metal/goth bangers giving the deaf's "love" sign unless you can't hear anymore.Are you for real?

You better go back to doing the hippie "peace sign".

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 20:54pm


Ahh, The Beatles. Coven still beat them to the punch, Yellow Submarine was released a month AFTER Coven's album. And the sign Lennon is doing is the Love sign, seen mostly throughout the film. Esp at the ending during the " All You Need is Love " sequence.

Posted by A.R. on Friday, 09.4.09 @ 04:17am


Philip:I don't see a THUMB here

\m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/ \m/

HAIL COVEN for being the first

Posted by Lilith on Friday, 09.4.09 @ 20:46pm


What is it with you Coven fans that you have absolutely no sense of humor? Was it not obvious that I was making a joke? By no means am I metal/goth banger. The sign of the horns is meaningless, and there is no need to salute Coven for bringing it to rock music.

\m/_ _\m/

Gotcher thumbs right there. All you need is love. Dig it!

Posted by Philip on Friday, 09.4.09 @ 23:57pm


I'm full of humor sarcastic at that. But without Coven doing it first, Ronnie James Dio would not be doing it today, 10 years after Coven, nor would anyone be throwing their horns up at a metal concert. OR as it seems today, at any concert at that.

Posted by A.R. on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 05:48am


Yeah, but no one got that I was joking with "The Beatles" as an answer... referring to the cliche that the Beatles did it first (which isn't all that true anyway)... it was a joke and that's all it was.

The horns are meaningless though... if it wasn't the horns, it'd be some other gesture meant to show love for the band and the music. That's all it's about... love. Sorry, being the first to show the sign of the horns means squat.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 08:07am


@ Philip
I realized when I posted above that there would be a way to type the thumb in as you did in your answer.And I knew you would post it.

I LET you have this one.

YOU ARE NOW THE FIRST TO DO THIS and NO ONE WILL KNOW.

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE THE FIRST AND NOT GET RECOGNIZED?

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 08:20am


I'm fine with it. The first to type the thumb... is it really that important? No. I don't care if Lax does it in his future posts about Peter Gabriel and gets all the credit. It doesn't add up to a whole hill of beans.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 08:25am


@Philip

You share a name with Prince Philip IV who sent the Knights Templar to their deaths on a Friday the 13th in 1307.

Maybe you are related since you seen so determined to try and burn Jinx and Coven.

WITCH HUNTER!

Posted by Lilith on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 08:31am


I doubt it very much... my roots are not of the same nationalities as him.

You're just as much a hunter, as you seem to be after those who don't think Coven deserves induction (if the Hall or concept thereof is meaningful). I'm just a victim! (that last sentence was a joke, btw)

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.5.09 @ 08:38am


Really Cheesecrop well here's comment #998! Too bad it isn't 999 because that would be 666 reversed, really appropriate for Coven

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 09.6.09 @ 16:50pm


Who cares if Coven did the "Horns" first. It doesn't matter. This is about music not about not about logos and symbolism

Posted by Milestones on Sunday, 09.6.09 @ 16:56pm


Here are a few passages about the criteria from the Rock Hall's own website:

Leaders in the music industry joined together in 1983 to establish the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation. One of the Foundation’s many functions is to recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll by inducting them into the Hall of Fame.

Criteria include the influence and significance of the artists’ contributions to the development and perpetuation of rock and roll.

Nomination and induction into the Hall of Fame is not about popularity, records sales, which label the group is on, or anything other than the process below.

Posted by Lilith on Sunday, 09.6.09 @ 20:43pm


I'm going to try and finally end this thing:

1. Coven will never be inducted.

2. You can still be a fan of thiers, but see 1.

3. Thier is no point in this debate going on and on because see 1.

Now, can we finally bury this page.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 09.6.09 @ 21:59pm


Dude Man quote:"Now, can we finally bury this page."

With EVIL like this I am surprised you are NOT Coven fans.It is so obvious you don't even know their catalog or body of work.

But that is just the point.They are not for unenlightened people.They are a fringe band and I am sure they could care less about getting into some Hall of Fame that is for record co.'s to PR their product like a sport.

\m/ Hails \m/

Posted by Lilith on Monday, 09.7.09 @ 08:58am


I'm going to have to agree with Lilith. Hey Ronnie James Dio might actually make it in since he and Sabbath.. er umm Heaven and Hell stuck that deal with Wal-Mart to release the " Heaven and Hell " alternate album cover.. Since it is the first time Wal-mart has released anything Dio. Forgot about the name change..

And as far as Dudeman, he works mostly on his opinion, Fact > Opinion. Nor does he look for facts, much like many of the " Sheep " out there.. they are blinded by what is sold to them, and accept that as fact.

Posted by A.R. on Monday, 09.7.09 @ 14:07pm


Evil? Are you kidding me? This group was Spinal Tap before Spinal Tap(without the heavy metal part). They hardly evenqualify as a footnote in the history of rock music.

Satanic imagery in popular music had been done before(Robert Johnson) and used in rock music(see the first album cover for The Gun, it's covered in demons,devils,yadda,yadda) before Coven. And early metal bands had already been using themes of "magic", "spells" and what not(Blue Cheer- "Gypsy Ball") before Coven.

Coven will forever be known to mainstream America as a one-hit wonder for a song they didn't even do.

I really hope I'm done here.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 09.7.09 @ 20:48pm


Dude Man quote:"Coven will forever be known to mainstream America as a one-hit wonder for a song they didn't even do."

See, I was totally correct about you in my previous post that you do not know the Coven catalog nor their body of work.You have never even heard their albums obviously and should not be on here giving opinions of something you do not know about.

You just go on the "hit" records you have heard on the radio from your word use "mainstream".

And the word you use "forever".Coven is waaaay more known and respected for their heavy works in proto goth/proto punk/proto black metal and not for a hit "movie title song".

I hope you are done here too because you are boring and do not know what you are talking about.And by the way, Spinal Tap rocks.

\m/ Diamond Lil

Posted by Lilith on Monday, 09.7.09 @ 21:45pm


"And the word you use "forever".Coven is waaaay more known and respected for their heavy works in proto goth/proto punk/proto black metal"- Lilith

Thier music sounds like none of those genres. It sounds like Jefferson Airplane that came out of a bad acid trip with no hooks.

"I hope you are done here too because you are boring and do not know what you are talking about"- Lilith

Good, so I guess this is over. No more Coven talk. Right?

"And by the way, Spinal Tap rocks."- Lilith

I own thier new album.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 09.7.09 @ 21:53pm


"See, I was totally correct about you in my previous post that you do not know the Coven catalog nor their body of work.You have never even heard their albums obviously and should not be on here giving opinions of something you do not know about."- Lilith

I listened to most of thier first album on youtube. "Satanic Mass" was one of the most random, dumbest things I've ever heard. Even Venom wouldn't put that on an album.

Second album, I found nothing. So I can't judge that.

Third album. I heard the title track and "Lost without a trace". Nothing special.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 09.7.09 @ 22:16pm


Dude Man says: "Satanic Mass" was one of the most random, dumbest things I've ever heard.

[MY RESPONSE:] Random? How did you come up with "random" to describe the Mass? I completely disagree. Comparing them unfavorably with metal hacks like Venom only reinforces -- for me anyway -- what a moron you are.

A lot of source material was collated and used in that Mass... I know... I have most of the books. Despite the "cheesy" announcer's voice of the "High Priest", I thought the Mass was a brilliant and scholarly work. When did Venom present a Latin liturgy as Coven did?

How about never!

Keep posting Dude Man... YOU WILL NOT GET THE LAST WORD!

Posted by Matt Flash on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 09:51am


"-- what a moron you are."- Matt Flash

Thank you for showing such class.

This most have been going through thier heads when they put that on an album, "How do put 13 minutes of self-parodic, chanting on an album?"

I don't need the last word. I can live with the fact that Coven will be remembered as the "Billy Jack" band.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 10:18am


Dude Man says: Thank you for showing such class.

[MATT FLASH:] Anytime... bro'.

[DUDE MAN:] I can live with the fact that Coven will be remembered as the "Billy Jack" band.

[MATT FLASH:] It wasn't even their song, you nitwit. It was done for a movie soundtrack -- that's all.

Posted by Matt Flash on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 10:37am


Sarcasm!

And I know it was a solo project, but they will always be known as a the "One Tin Soldier" band. Only fans will remember them for thier albums that went no where, thier Halloween stage show, or thier nods to the occult which had been done before.

Matt, you view of Coven: Cool Satanic rock.

The average American's: Oh yeah, the "Billy Jack" band. Remember when Billy Jack kicked that guys face in? It rawked!

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 12:17pm


[DUDE MAN:] Matt, you view of Coven: Cool Satanic rock.

[MATT FLASH:] Thanks for speaking for me, Dude Man. It's been real...

Posted by Matt Flash on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 12:37pm


[MATT FLASH:] Thanks for speaking for me, Dude Man. It's been real...

[DUDE MAN:] Anytime... bro'.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 12:38pm


Here's something to ruminate over... I'm amazed at how much energy is wasted by Coven-haters at this page. I don't troll at the Dio page... Just an observation... The Coven-haters are making this the longest running thread at this site. And I thank you for it.

Posted by Matt Flash on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 12:49pm


I caught these guys at many other pages at this Hall site also putting other music down.

BOOOOOOOOOOOO

Get a life guys.

Posted by Lilith on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 13:46pm


Matt Flash:Here's something to ruminate over... I'm amazed at how much energy is wasted by Coven-haters at this page. I don't troll at the Dio page... Just an observation... The Coven-haters are making this the longest running thread at this site. And I thank you for it.
I Say: I'm guilty of trolling to the Dio page.. But that's because I can not take the man seriously.. that is beside the point..I'm pretty sure Jinx would get a kick out of this page, she does like to strike a nerve I heard.
Dudeman: I don't need the last word. I can live with the fact that Coven will be remembered as the "Billy Jack" band.
I Say: Meh that's your opinion, Where as they are remembered for their HEAVY Occult rock, and for their diverse stage show.. and Robert Johnson?? Seriously?? you do know the difference between Fact and Fiction right?

Posted by A.R. on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 16:57pm


You know, I've just realized something...

Milestones came over here when he was hitting every page on this site, as newcomers often do...

and since then, no one has heard from him...




WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH HIM!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 17:55pm


And you know for a fact that the Robert Johnson "Crossroads" incident is truly fiction? If you're any sort of follower of the occult, then such a thing would seem to be probable...even likely...!!! Maybe you just...

"had to be there."

P.S.- While browsing through Borders a while back I stumbled across a Robert Johnson CD box set. I don't remember seeing a Coven box set...or even a CD. Now, that's a fact...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 17:59pm


While browsing through Borders a while back I stumbled across a Robert Johnson CD box set. I don't remember seeing a Coven box set...or even a CD. Now, that's a fact...

Posted by Gitarzan

Yes that is a FACT.I read that two of their record labels claim the first and second Coven album masters were destroyed in two separate fires and the third label claims their masters were stolen.So you would NEVER see a Coven CD in a retail store.(Besides the fact their product is too controversial if it was available for stores, it was banned and pulled from stores years ago)

Coven happened to have the master mixes so they released CD's on their own label.I have all of them.

FACT: Vintage Coven vinyls go for upwards of $150 at ebay.I won one.

Keep it hot boys. \m/

Posted by Lilith on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 20:34pm


I don't know that it would be controversial now. Heck, it might be considered comparatively bland now.

Some people like you collect vinyl because you're a fan...others collect it simply because it's rare...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.8.09 @ 21:56pm


I wonder if they'll ever stock G.G. Allan at WalMart?

Posted by Matt Flash on Wednesday, 09.9.09 @ 08:46am


"When did Venom present a Latin liturgy as Coven did? "

Why should that matter? If your point was that Coven was more thought-out than Venom, fine, but this actually proves why Coven shouldn't be inducted. Other than the horns, nothing in particular of theirs really became a trend. "Heavy metal music", you say? Maybe, but that was really more of an evolutionary thing. We see roots of it in songs like "Heavy Music" by Bob Seger.

And the horns really mean nothing... it's a gesture to suggest that the band is more dangerous and more anti-establismentarianistic than they really are... basically to piss off parents. In the end, it's supposed to be about the MUSIC, not the gestures. So sorry, the horns mean nothing towards putting them in the Hall (whether or not you agree with the concept of a Rock Hall)

And again, you accuse us of trolling and all that, but this is not a fan site. If you're looking for a fan site, you're in the wrong place. This is primarily a place for discussing the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

\m/_ All you need is love _\m/

Emerald Lagasse.... aka Philip

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 09.9.09 @ 17:32pm


[PHILIP:] If your point was that Coven was more thought-out than Venom, fine, but this actually proves why Coven shouldn't be inducted.

[MATT:] What's so bad about recording music that's "thought-out"...

Life is too short for this crap...

Posted by Matt Flash on Thursday, 09.10.09 @ 00:22am


Philip says:This is primarily a place for discussing the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame.

I say:Then why do you just go around dissing bands all over this site?

You use it as a place to get your ya ya's off by putting people down that have actually done something artistic in their life while you have done nothing but bitch here at a stupid site that has NOTHING TO DO with the REAL HALL OF FAME.

\m/ HAIL SATAN \m/

Posted by Lilith on Thursday, 09.10.09 @ 00:32am


"What's so bad about recording music that's "thought-out"...

Life is too short for this crap... "

Nothing bad about it... however, the fact that the Latin-liturgy thing didn't catch on with other bands hurts the argument that Coven was influential.

Lilith, there are probably more posts about me building up artists than there are tearing down other acts. I've posted in favor of acts like Ringo Starr, Buddy Knox, the Stylistics, Chi-Lites, Del-Vikings, Steppenwolf, Chubby Checker, Dick Dale, Stevie Ray Vaughan, etc. I'm actually one of the more cheery and sunshine-Brady types on this site.

\m/_ Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Ghost. _\m/

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 09.10.09 @ 17:06pm


Philip's take it from yourself, "... sssshhh... this thread has finally died down.... let it rest in peace please"

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 09.10.09 @ 17:19pm


uuuuhhhh...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 09.10.09 @ 18:16pm