Does Rap belong in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?

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The question of rap and the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame may be the most important issue the Hall needs to address in the coming years. Critics of the Hall have been wrestling with this issue but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Rock fans are also split on whether artists like Eminem and Jay-Z belong in the same conversation with Nirvana and Guns N' Roses, as reflected by the voting on this site. (Check out Run DMC's video for King of Rock, where they bust down the doors of the Rock & Roll Museum in 1985!)

First, let's tackle the definition of "rock and roll", because many fans get hung up on the idea that artists who don't fit that description don't belong in the Rock Hall. Kurt Loder, the ageless MTV News icon, wrote on the subject in 2002:
What exactly is rock and roll? Having spent many years as a member of the Hall of Fame nominating committee (a position I no longer hold), I can tell you that endless hours have been devoted to this question, and it has never been definitively answered. Some critics — most notably the English writer Charlie Gillett, in his groundbreaking 1970 book, "The Sound of the City" — have argued that rock and roll is, if not "dead," at least historically complete, and now a part of the past.
If "rock and roll" as a genre is dead, that helps explain how bands like Black Sabbath (heavy metal), the Bee Gees (disco/soul) and the Ramones (punk) can get inducted without sounding like Chuck Berry. The list of subgenres in the Hall under the "rock" umbrella is incredibly diverse and has clearly expanded outside the strict definition of "rock and roll". So why should the Rock Hall draw the line at rap and hip hop?

The Rock Hall's primary function is "to recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll." There is no question that hip hop has heavily influenced today's rock artists -- Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, and countless others combine rap and rock seamlessly. Turntables and sampling have their roots in early rap, but are now ubiquitous in popular music. You can't understand popular music from the last 20 years without hip hop. That needs to be documented in the Hall of Fame.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation (who nominates the artists) has shown a recent willingness to open their doors to rap by nominating Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five in 2005 and 2006, though they didn't receive enough votes to get inducted. [Update: Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five were inducted in 2007.] The Rock Hall Museum has also hosted speakers like Chuck D and held exhibits devoted to hip hop. After all, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is also an active museum and they want to expand their visitors to hip hop fans.

This question will certainly be answered definitively in the next couple of years when rappers like the Beastie Boys, Run DMC, LL Cool J, and Public Enemy all become eligible for induction.

Check out Future Hip Hop Legends for more on this topic.

Should rap artists be included in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame?


318 comments so far (post your own)

It is a difficult question because i think that if we induct one rapper we nedd to induct lots of them. i love rap so why not?

Posted by roméo on Sunday, 12.10.06 @ 02:16am

no but however i think dr dre should because he has produced some of the legend albums for legend rappers. and he has also has built the careers for many of todays stars....i hate rap more than anybody but i think dr dre should be in

Posted by curt on Sunday, 12.10.06 @ 09:29am

I think that in 25 years, we'll look back at this question and wonder why it was even a big deal. As bands continue to blur the lines between rock and rap, it will be ridiculous to try to shoehorn artists into these antiquated categories.

Posted by c.w. on Sunday, 12.10.06 @ 12:32pm

I really don't see rap and rock as opposing forces whatsoever and have no problem with rap being housed in the Rock Hall.

Posted by Kit on Sunday, 12.10.06 @ 12:54pm

rap and rock are as different as rock and country, or rock and jazz. arhuablly, it really isnt that different, but if the the other genres are excluded, then rap should be too.

Posted by willy on Sunday, 12.10.06 @ 15:07pm

Jazz isn't excluded; Miles Davis got in last year.

Posted by Kit on Sunday, 12.10.06 @ 15:40pm

It's a tough question, because some rap groups have been highly influential to some of the more hiphopish rock groups, ie. Red Hot Chili Peppers. Given that Reggae, Disco and Jazz have all been acknowledged by the Rock hall as having influence, then some rp groups should too.

Posted by Brian on Monday, 12.11.06 @ 16:05pm

The real problem is that a lot of these early rap artists had so-so careers......highly influential, but most of the material hardly stood the test of time. Worse, there's plenty of Rock/Pop/Electronic artists, particularly underground gods (Brian Eno, Leonard Cohen, Joy Division, Television, Depeche Mode), that will have even less of a chance of being inducted if half the ballot is made up of memorable rappers.

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 12.12.06 @ 03:07am

There is a big difference between rock bands with hiphop/rap influences and a hiphop or rap band. It is called the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame for a reason. The Rap industry can make their hall of fame if they wish, I wouldn't care if they didn't induct rock bands into there, just keep rap bands out of the rock and roll hall of fame.

Posted by Justin on Tuesday, 12.12.06 @ 20:20pm

Hell, we can't even get Kiss in the HOF, now we're talking about rap artists? Let them get their own HOF, in my opinion. I don't hate rap, but I don't think rap or hip-hop belongs in the ROCK & ROLL Hall Of Fame.

Posted by matt on Thursday, 12.21.06 @ 00:21am

I say who cares if hip-hop wasnt rock n roll, like it said, its about what they contribute to the music industry and there infleunce on people.
any genre of music and any artists who were an infleunce deserves to be inducted.

Posted by Edward on Thursday, 12.21.06 @ 04:49am

Justin said be4 that he doesnt mind if the rap industry makes a hall of fame and wouldnt care that if rock and roll bands got into rap hall of fame, but keep rap bands out of rock n roll??

Posted by Edward on Thursday, 12.21.06 @ 05:13am

I think that the Rock and Roll HOF needs to seriously limit who gets in to the hall. It should be an exclusive club of artists that are influential to the arc of modern music. Therefore a group like The Furious 5 should be in because of their tremendous effect on future music. I don't necessarily think that just because an artist has a sustained career with a lot of records sold that they should be in the HOF. I think a band like Sonic Youth should be in the HOF. I don't particularly like their music but they've definitely had a major influence on rock. I also think a guy like Dr. Dre should be in both as a performer and non-performer.

On top of that I think there should be a larger body of people that nominate who gets on the ballot for the hall to get a better cross section of artists in the HOF.

Posted by Paul on Friday, 12.22.06 @ 11:27am

I say yes, and even if rap wasn't allowed in the hall of fame I think some rappers should be inducted based on their other musical achievements. For example, the Beastie Boys have expanded their repetoire to several genres that fall under the rock umbrella by playing instruments on 4 of their 6 albums (but only 3 really count... two of them played guitar and bass on one song on their second album).

Posted by Jon on Sunday, 12.24.06 @ 00:51am

Is there a rap and hip hop hall of fame? If so, that's where the prominent rap artists should be inducted into. Rap isn't rock n roll just like classical and country aren't rock n roll

Posted by Barry on Wednesday, 12.27.06 @ 16:51pm

I would have to disagree with you Barry. Yes, it is true that classical and country aren't rock n roll however Johnny Cash is in the Rock Hall. He is definitely country. The point however is that rock n roll is an amalgamation of classical, blues, jazz, gospel, soul, etc. I guess my definition of rock n roll is kind of like a meat grinder. You can put some pork and beef and chicken in one side of the grinder as solid pieces of said meat. On the unprocessed side you know that pork is pork, beef is beef, and so on. Now when you grind them all up you have a mixture of all of those meats that went in the grinder. You can probably taste some pork here or some chicken there but in total it is a mixture of everything into something completely new. Therefore, I believe that after rock n roll hit the scene it is really almost impossible to say that rap doesn't deserve a place in the HOF. Rap would be like adding just one more type of meat to the grinder.

I hope that made sense and not too long winded.

Posted by Paul on Wednesday, 12.27.06 @ 23:11pm

rap is not music. at least not rock music. how can an innovative group like Rush or Blue Oyster Cult not get in yet some rapper like 50 cent, who's music sounds like a string of grammatically insufficient curses deserve a place next to the beatles, zeppelin etc? i'm sorry but that's B.S. oh and by the way, i'm a teenager and i'm sick of hearing rap. the rappers belong in their own hall of fame. this is supposed to be for ROCK!

Posted by Alice on Friday, 12.29.06 @ 19:59pm

Music is Music.
If it sounds good, than why not?

Posted by Ryan on Friday, 12.29.06 @ 23:44pm

I don't like rap/hip-hop at all, but I can't deny it is a legitrimate form of music. That said, it is not a form of "rock and roll" music. Heavy metal, punk, new wave, prog, fusion, folk rock, country rock, etc are forms of rock and thus artists in those catgories belong here.

Artists in non rock genres like jazz or country belong here also *if* they made significant contributions to rock music. One hit wonder rap artists, no matter how much crecit they get for being "first" don't belong here. Rap/hip-hop artists that have directly influenced the development of rock music do.

The problem I have with opening the Hall up to rap artists directly (rather than as "an influence on rock") is that there are already too many *rock* bands not in the hall, and this just crowds the field more. I hate their system of nomination & induction which has prevented highly influential world-class bands from critically panned subgenres like prog, metal, glam and AOR to be completely ignored. How is Yes, the most well-known and influential prog band ever, not in there? If fact, not a single symphonic prog band is in the Hall. The closest prog comes to being represented is Pink Floyd and the Moody Blues.

Metal is also left out with only Zeppelin and Sabbath in. What about Deep Purple? Where is Boston, a huge band responsible for much of the AOR sound of non-new-wave rock in the late 70's early 80's.

These so-called rock critics can't even cover their own chosen genre and now they want to waste precious space on rap artists who at their core aren't rock? No, they don't belong in the hall with the Beatles, the Who and Led Zeppelin.

Posted by Desiree on Monday, 01.1.07 @ 05:12am

The only definition of rock and roll that covers all those inducted as performers in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is one I heard attributed to Alan Freed, the deejay who popularized the term. I am currently looking for where and when he said this, but his answer was "race records." We now call "race records" by another name, "rhythm and blues", suggested to Paul Ackerman of Billboard by reporter Jerry Wexler who went on to Atlantic.

To put it bluntly, rock and roll encompasses R&B and all its bastard stepchildren. That includes doo wop, rockabilly, 60s girls groups, surf music, soul, British invasion, pop rock, blues rock, reggae, country rock, folk rock, psychedelic, progressive rock, metal, jazz fusion, soft rock, bubblegum, disco, arena rock, punk, hard rock, new wave, new romantic, techno, alternative, quiet storm, electronica and, yes, even rap. Whether Freed actually said this or not, whether the nominators actually thought this or not, this is the only definition I could think of that covers all the acts.

Posted by Charles Crossley Jr on Tuesday, 01.2.07 @ 00:19am

I COMPLETELY agree with the comment above.

Posted by bleeding quadrophenic on Thursday, 01.4.07 @ 13:07pm

I think someone should start up the Rap/Hip Hop Hall of Fame...The two should be seperated...The Hip Hop Hall will have plenty of artists in 25 years when you look at the current rap movement and its explosion of 100's of top selling artists(just look at the dominance of rap in the billboard charts of the last 5 yrs)...If we choose to include rappers in the rock and roll hall it will surely dilute the R&R Hall of Fame. If we make this inclusion, they might as well change the name to the MUSIC HALL OF FAME..Otherwise, the endless debate will continue...

Posted by rap vs rock on Saturday, 01.6.07 @ 03:27am

You know, it really pisses me off that Grandmaster Flash got into the hall of fame before Deep Purple, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Alice Cooper when these bands have much more influences on Rock And Roll artists. Go ask any rock and roll artist and see if anyone of their influences is Grandmaster Flash.

Posted by Hitman on Monday, 01.8.07 @ 15:33pm


Posted by redstrat on Tuesday, 01.9.07 @ 01:43am

Rock n Roll is one of those kinda things "I can't define it, but hell, I know it when I see it."

There is also the factor of the instruments. You can't have rock without guitars, bass and drums. Period.

Posted by xifr on Tuesday, 01.9.07 @ 02:22am

"You can't have rock without guitars, bass and drums. Period."

I've seen multiple bands do without one or more of those and still rock.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 01.9.07 @ 02:40am

I do not think RAP should be included in the RnR HOF, however, there should be a RAP HOF created and Grandmaster Flash should be the first inductee...

Jay-Z and Eminem wouldn't even make the RAP HOF.

Posted by Scott on Tuesday, 01.9.07 @ 10:51am

I don't like rap, but it should be allowed and as of today it has been.
Mainly, because even if you love it or hate it. It has influenced many current bands. It's not hard to hear some of the newer songs and not hear a rap beat or someone rapping.

Posted by Mari on Tuesday, 01.9.07 @ 15:32pm

Is it time maybe to Stop using the Title 'Rock'n,roll' hall of fame, And now use say - Music hall of fame

Or have differant sub sections Ie section for rock, Hiphop, Other.

I hope not. in 15 - 20 years time Your going to have Boy and girlbands from the last 10 years trying to get in to the hall, A nightmare now between hiphop and rock, imagine the Rubbish then.

Personally, im i rock fan/punk/Guitar fan, But hey everone somewhere will influence somebody.

Posted by Mazza on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 05:58am

Absolutley not. Rap is not a form of music. It has no socially redeming values at all. Since when did rock and roll spout hatred and murder. The degrading of women. Also, since when did rap have a melody?, Look up the definition of music. Rap does not fit it at all.

Posted by Tony Villella on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 10:45am

I'm a rock fan, but the 80's didn't see many songs near as lyrically powerful as "The Message". There's stupid shitty rap, and there's stupid shitty rock and roll.

Posted by MarkO on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 12:14pm

"Rock & Roll" as defined (Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, Buddy Holly, Bill Haley, etc.) is no longer. After the Beatles (Post-1964 era), we basically have Rock now, and its various subcategories (Metal, Industrial, Hard Rock, Soft Rock, etc.), so the Hall should really be categorized as Rock music (as I believe is the intent). That being said, RAP is not music, and not true "art" (a much abused term) to me. It is a vocal diatribe or outlet/medium for getting a (usually negative) message across. It's akin to spoken word material under a beatbox or programmed beat. There is no MUSICIALITY in it, and hence, should not be included for nominations. Many will disagree with me, but I highly doubt that Snoop or Eminem (a travesty that he even won a single Grammy) could sit down and COMPOSE a guitar/piano/string passage with harmonies and a melody or an orchestral piece with intelligent, positive lyrics sans the aid of computers, programmers, background gunfire or other artificial means. There's no talent in using such non-musical avenues in a "song." They CAN write lyrics over a beat, but anyone can - big deal. No musicality in that, and most of it is simply a negative outlet for venting their street frustrations - it's not contributing to any good (except condoning an angry, violent culture). Much of it exacerbates the crime element and perpetuates/celebrates violence, hatred/racism, drug dealing, gang-banging, etc.. Keep it out of the Hall!

Posted by D on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 13:59pm

Amen! I agree completely, and rap should really have it's own Hall of Fame (as should Jazz, country, and other forms of music). But "Rock" is a relative term nowadays, like "Coke" means Pepsi, Coca-Cola, Mr. Pibb, whatever. It's a blanket term, so the line has indeed gotten blurry. Still, you're right. Rap isn't music in the sense of the Beatles, Zep, Stones, etc., other rock artists and bands. Record execs hear something they know can make a buck and sell, so they give thugs the record deal and that crap sells like hotcakes because the demographic has changed ... and the execs know how to target their marketing according to consumer demands. Really good rock groups are a rarity today, but there is a long list of rappers/hip-hoppers because it's a popular form of (non-music) media. It's all about the Benjamin'$$$$$$$, G!

Posted by CJ Henry on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 14:11pm

To those of you who don't want rap in the Hall, could you please tell me where you draw the line in the sand? If you're at all familiar with contemporary music, the blending of styles has become perfectly commonplace. Take a band like the Gorillaz or Faith No More or Red Hot Chili Peppers or Rage Against the Machine. Would you let them into the Hall? How about the Beastie Boys? Or Beck? The Rock Hall is supposed to recognize those that contribute to the evolution of rock. And that includes rap, y'all.

Posted by c.w. on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 14:40pm

Okay, everyone whose only exposure to rap is MTV Cribz specials, line up to the right for face-punching. Everyone who knows that rap is an art form that goes far beyond "negative messages" ("Express Yourself" is a negative message?) and a media stereotype, lineup to the left for high-fives and makeouts.

Posted by Kit on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 14:41pm

The fact is simple - it is called the Rock and Roll - not Music HoF. End of conversation! This PC crap has to stop somewhere and Grandmaster Flash belongs nowhere near the Beatles, The Who and Led Zeppelin. How does GMF go in before Alice Coooper? I think the nominating committee needs serious medicine!

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 18:37pm

PC crap? [What] is wrong with you?

Posted by Kit on Wednesday, 01.10.07 @ 19:29pm

"ROCK and ROLL Hall of Fame"

Rock and Roll. Not Rap. This Hall of Fame is to honor the artists that perform and have contributed to rock and roll, or rock. in the 90's, there were a glut of rock-rap hybrid bands out there. But these days, rock and rap seem to be seperated and have their own sound and cultures.

Because of the division between sound and cultures that is large, we should keep it seperated from the Rock and Roll Hall of fame. I don't see why a "R&B and Rap Hall of Fame" cannot be opened to honor all the great artists of that genre of music. It is about time anyway. Why should artist from Ray Charles, Motown, Run DMC, Public Enemy and Outkast be relegated as second-class citizens and subgenres in the RR HOF when they can be held and honored as THE Beatles,and kings of the RnB and Rap HOF.

Johnny Cash and Miles Davis were inducted bc of their large stature in another genre that crossed over and influenced rock to such a great extent. You will start diluting their greatness by inducting average artists of non-rock genres that really had no influence on rock.

I'm really divided as to whether Run DMC and Public Enemy should get in. RUN DMC because of that lame Aerosmith duet and the birth of Kid Rock and Linkin Park and nu metal.

respect the integrity of the Hall, if theres any left.

Posted by Rich on Thursday, 01.11.07 @ 09:27am

"Johnny Cash and Miles Davis were inducted bc of their large stature in another genre that crossed over and influenced rock to such a great extent."

And what makes rap different than those?

Posted by Kit on Thursday, 01.11.07 @ 09:37am

No. Rap is rap and rock and roll is rock and roll. It's not the Every Genre of Modern Popular Music Hall of Fame.

Posted by Dave on Thursday, 01.11.07 @ 14:06pm

Well then I guess we're kicking the punkers out too then...

Posted by Kit on Thursday, 01.11.07 @ 14:21pm

I'm not a huge fan of rap/hip hop, but you can't ignore its current influence. Imagine if such a stance had been taken against Motown -- no Smokey Robinson, no Stevie Wonder. It would have been ridiculous. Once you make it expansive, you can't leave out a genre just because you dislike it. The best voters can do it vote on merit, regardless of genre. Run-DMC belongs in there just like cult faves Joy Division and Big Star. Keep an open mind!

Posted by Henry M. on Thursday, 01.11.07 @ 18:35pm

Grandmaster Flash certainly deserves a nod. "The Message" made rap relevant, and -- for better and for worse -- changed the way people listen to music. It shouldn't matter what they did after or how sustained their careers were; leave that to the Baseball Hall of Fame. If that standard were held to literature, then Harper Lee would be left out because "To Kill a Mockingbird" was her only book.

Posted by JD on Thursday, 01.11.07 @ 19:44pm

I wouldn't worry too much about the inclusion of rap as a genre within the huge umbrella of "rock and roll" as the Hall of Fame has long defined it. I think TIME will be the great balancer in this debate; although we write this in the late '00's with a certain perspective on rap music, by the time that the period when there were "TONS of rap artists" will be looked back on with the same critical cynicism as any other period.

By selecting 5-6 artists a year, the Hall of Fame forces itself to select artists that are representative of trends that include many other groups that won't get inducted. For example, take the induction of R.E.M. Ten years ago, one might have worried about "indie rock", with its hundreds of artists, taking over. With time, what ultimately happens is a few big, influential names drift to the top, and the rest sink into obscurity.

So, yes, we might see one rap artist added per year from now on, but they will basically be taking the place of some other past trend (like say, 1960s soul music) that used to seem to get a "slot" every year. I doubt you will ever see a time when rap dominates the Hall of Fame; it will live along side all the other many different genres.

Posted by bookhouse88 on Saturday, 01.13.07 @ 10:00am

I'm fr inducting Afrika Bambaataa he is for me on an equal foting with grandmaster flash

Posted by roméo on Saturday, 01.13.07 @ 11:43am

Man some of you guys stress to much about it.
Grandmaster Flash has already been inducted and theres nothing you can do now.

Some of you probly havn't even heard a song from him, or public enemy, Run-DMC, The Beastie Boys and others. You just don't appreciate good music just because they said infleuntial lyrics fast.

And im sick of hearing its not rock 'n' roll its rap well of coarse it isn't theres are many other genres in the 'rock' hall, and like the article said up top its primary function is "to recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll."

And most of you people think that rap hasnt influenced music and people just because it may come from lower classed people that live in america.

Posted by Edward on Tuesday, 01.23.07 @ 01:49am

I think most of the arguments have been made, but I ultimately agree with the argument that rap is not rock. However there artists who have had enough of a major influence on rock for them to be included. GMF, Run DMC, the Beastie Boys, PE and Dr Dre may or may not fall into these catagories but that is how the voting ought to be decided. Similarly Miles Davis was certainly a Jazz artist, but Bitches Brew and his fusion work had a huge influence on rock that qualified him. Same kind of thing with Johnny Cash.

Nonetheless there is a Country Music Hall of Fame and there should be a Rap and Hip Hop Hall of Fame. Some overlap should be expected.

Posted by tucker on Tuesday, 01.23.07 @ 09:58am

i think hip hop should have its own umbrella in the hall of fame not under rock

Posted by Patrick Irvine on Sunday, 01.28.07 @ 13:00pm

OMG! i dislike rap more then anyone i know and trust me i have reasonable reasons not to argue with.Rap and rock are 2 completely different genres.Thats like comparing Green Day to Snoop Dogg.Does that make sense at all? NO it does not.This is the most childish question and or topic ive ever heard of.Its completely obsurd.Should rap be counted into the ROCK AND ROLL(rap is not in that phrase)hall of fame? Nope not at all and anyone who thinks otherwise has the worst sense of what music really is.

Posted by Josh on Tuesday, 01.30.07 @ 18:58pm

Josh, that is a very, very dumb thing to say, or rather a series of dumb things congealed into a single disgusting ooze of stupidity.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 01.30.07 @ 21:50pm

You know what else isn't in the phrase rock and roll? Punk, Surf, Folk, Country, Metal, Progressive, Alternative, Glam, Psychedelic, Soft, Singer-songwriter, R&B, Doowop, Blues, Girl Group, College, Indie, Grunge, or Arena.

Wow, that's a lot of new hall of fames that have to be built!

Posted by Kit on Wednesday, 01.31.07 @ 00:48am

Contemporary Music Hall of Fame?

Posted by William on Wednesday, 01.31.07 @ 11:52am

A lot of you guys are missing the point!!! The Rap itself is not music. Rap is a lyrical form of words over music. Just listen to the songs "King Of Rock" and "Rock Box" by Run-DMC and you'll understand !!! That's Rock-N-Roll baby.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Wednesday, 01.31.07 @ 18:41pm

I say they not include rap in the hall of fame, but rather house it in another facility nearby the rrhof, with it being the rap hall of fame instead

then, when deciding which place a rappish rock band/rocky rap band goes, they have a commitee vote

I for one would boycott the place if I ever saw people like jz or lil john next to Pink Floyd or The Red Hot Chili Peppers, so I think it would be better to seperate them(although keep both of them on the same ballot, so as to not overload with both)

Posted by panama1984 on Wednesday, 01.31.07 @ 22:10pm

Including rap artists in the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame is no more a difficult question as it is to include other artists from sub-genres of rock 'n roll. Rap is a child of rock 'n roll as much as any other genre. Therefore, influential artists, producers, writers, and non-artist should also have the opportunity to be included. I believe people bring in their personal bias into this discussion- which is wrong. I am not a Black Sabbath fan, but since I know music I can appreciate and understand their influence on heavy metal in particular and rock'n roll in general. The same goes for many rap artists.

Posted by qmickie on Thursday, 02.1.07 @ 10:56am

Rap as an artform has its place - it is without a doubt the urban poetry of the modern era. However, despite the (occasional) lyrical power and relatively substantial (if often appalling) cultural contribution of rap (rock is frequently appalling too), it can never be considered as a music form of any consequence. The placement of repetitive, pedestrian beats behind the words of a poet, or absconding with another artist's hook, does not maketh the poet a musician. Alas, the Beastie Boys made only one Sabotage, then disappeared back under their embarrassing (literal) rock. Put the (decent) rappers who actually talk about the ills of the world rather than bitches and bling with Byron & Shelley, not with Lennon and McCartney, who mastered both words AND music.

Posted by Doughboy on Thursday, 02.1.07 @ 22:29pm

"Absconding?" Think long and hard about what that word means and how you used it. Don't try to impress the peons with flashy, baroque vocabulary.

Posted by William on Friday, 02.2.07 @ 07:37am

Rock and roll is Guitar, Bass and Drums with an occasional Keyboard-period. Rap is...two turntables and a microphone. Why is this even a question? Rap is NOT Rock and Roll. There should be a Jazz HOF, a Country HOF, a Hip-Hop HOF, etc,etc. Miles Davis and Grand Master Flash in the Rock and Roll HOF, give me a break!

Posted by Aaron Noe on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 01:00am

Rap and rock aren't nearly as distinct as you would like them to be. Ever heard N.E.R.D.?

Posted by chuck on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 08:52am

I think for rap it should be beastie boys, run dmc, dr dre, and public enemy. because they are to me the most important people in rap and have influenced rage against the machine and other good rockrap bands. i do not want to see snoop dog because he sucks. rap to me isn't music, but i can listen to run dmc and bestie boys and all the other groups that i mentioned necause they have a beat, rythem, and have some rock influences in there. i don't know bout public enemy or dr dre.

Posted by Flyhead13 on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 11:31am

what pisses me off that there are rock bands with talent and even guitarist that could even be better than eric clapton or jimmy page, but they are not getting record deals are being recongnized. but rap is like if you sing about hookers, money and other stupid rap shit you get a record deal and get famous and get alot of money while the good rock band that are struggeling to put food on the table and that are working hard dont get recongnized.

Posted by Flyhead13 on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 11:37am

Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi, and Bach have stood the test of time and people still listen to their music 300 to 400 years later. this will happen with Zeppelin, Hendrix, The Who, Black Sabbath, and all the great rock bands. Rap will never ever be listend to 400 years later and be rememberd. snoop dogg give me a ####in' break

Posted by Flyhead13 on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 11:41am

What a stupid thing to say. Whether the idiotic public remembers you or not doesn't have jack to do with how important you are.

I'm willing to bet less than 1 in 10 people have ever heard of the Silver Apples, but yet everyone and his brother deifies Led Zeppelin despite their pretty transparent history of theft from lesser known artists, some of whom later took them to court.

I hope in 300 years people will learn better.

Posted by William on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 13:45pm

Calm down there sparky.

And yes, now we listen to Mozart, Vivaldi, etc. but when Mozart was alive the most popular composer was Antonin Salieri. Popularity and artistic merit are not connected with each other in the slightest.

Posted by Kit on Sunday, 02.4.07 @ 16:06pm

I agree rock is bass,guitar and drums with someone singing. Rap is someone scatching LPs on a turn table(or sampling rock riffs) and someone talking. They are clearly not the same.

Posted by anonymous on Monday, 02.5.07 @ 18:04pm

Well then that eliminates all bands who use pianos, mellotrons, Hammond B-3 Organs, synthesizers, drum machines, electric violas (bye bye Velvets), horn sections, or who play instrumentals.

Also, the Doors never used a bass. The lower ends of their songs were filled with Ray Manzarek's organ.

This pigeon-holing of rock as This set of elements and rap as that set of elements is ultimately pointless. They came from the same momma (rhythm and blues) and they have been in close quarters throughout their lives. Live with it.

Posted by Kit on Monday, 02.5.07 @ 18:35pm

If an artist uses only pianos,melletrons,or horn sections it is not rock and roll; ie. Harry Connick, Liberace or Chuck Mangione. It is Swing or Big Band. And the last time I saw footage of the Doors I don't recall seeing anyone hip-hoping from turntable to turntable. It's Rock and Roll not Rap and Roll.Live with it.

Posted by anonymous on Monday, 02.5.07 @ 23:42pm

It's called the "Rock and Roll" Hall of Fame, but it ultimately ends up being the "Popular Music" Hall of Fame. Were The Supremes, Four Tops, Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Sam Cooke, Al Green or Isaac Hayes Rock musicians? What about all the Doo-wop groups? The term Rock and Roll seems to have encompassed the popular Black music of the past century (which is how Rock and Roll started out). As long as the artist in question has quality material and was influential, I say welcome them with open arms.

Posted by Al Vorse on Tuesday, 02.6.07 @ 15:18pm

no strings no hall !!!!

Posted by kid on Wednesday, 02.7.07 @ 16:20pm

Everybody thinks rap is negative and degrading to women, and all that. There are rock and roll bands out there that promote violence, drugs, and worshiping satan, so don't act like rap music is the only negative music in the world. If it's so bad, why does everything revolve aroung. White America uses Rap/Hip-Hop to sell whatever they can. If it wasn't for Rap/Hip-Hop, a lot a folks wouldn't be selling vehicles, clothes, soda's, etc. What what people do without it? They would do the same thing they were doing back in the day. All the music would be boring. Compared to any other music, or spoken word as someone called it, hip hop sells. Not country,rock & roll, classical, you name it. Cartoons are even trying to be hip-hop. Give me a break. Keep it real, not real ridiculous.

Posted by ERICKA on Thursday, 02.8.07 @ 15:24pm

Erica,you are absolutely right. There is NOTHING wrong with Rap/Hip-Hop. But it is not Rock and Roll. This is the RRHOF after all. One of two things needs to happen. Either establish a Rap Music Hall of Fame or rename the hall to the Pop Music Hall of Fame.

Posted by Aaron Noe on Thursday, 02.8.07 @ 16:49pm

as we all know the rap and rock are different genres of music>>>>>>>>>>>
but recent music artists have shown experimenting by combining 2 forms of music together as LINKIN PARK. they are most heard rock group so we should allow atleast the music to grow as whole so we could hear more of them>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

we are all rock lovers but we enough tolerant for music to expanding in any dimensions>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Posted by eskap on Monday, 02.12.07 @ 03:54am

goddammit hip hop shouldnt be in the hall of fame. its a completly different genre than rock. the thing at the top of the page said if heavy metal and that stuff can be inducted why cant hip hop. well, dumbass, the music they said at the top (like metal) are sub-genres of rock. hip hop isnt a sub genre of rock. but then again, if pop assholes like wacko jacko can be inducted, then why the hell call it the ROCK hall of fame?

I say keep hip hop out but then again, the Rock hall of fame has so many non-rock artists in it that i dont even give a shit. The so called "rock" hall of fame is more of a pop hall of fame to me. I say fuk the hall of fame. I prefer the VH1 Rock Honors.

Posted by Heavy Metal Hero on Wednesday, 02.14.07 @ 00:06am

Hip Hop should be included as it is an extension of the purest definition of rock n roll which is black rhythm n blues of the 1950s. However, the rock n roll hall of fame should be highly selective of who it inducts. Afrika Bambatta, Flash, Run DMC, De La Soul, Gangstarr, Wu Tang Clan, Public Enemy, NWA, they all had significant influence on the sound of hip hop. The inductions should not become trivial and cluttered with artists who while talented were not "pioneers" ala Jay - Z, or Eminem.

Posted by Blazer on Friday, 02.16.07 @ 22:24pm

There are alot of influental rap artists that do deserve to be inducted into the R&R HOF.(Run DMC, LL Cool J, Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, NWA, Pac, A Tribe Called Quest...) Rock and Roll doesn't mean just guitars, drums, bass, etc. Look at inductees like Michael Jackson, Marvin Gaye or Miles Davis. They weren't straight up rock, but their music is influental and inspired millions. So yes, I do believe rap has some kind of influence in the world of music. Also, I think there is some rap hall of fame which airs on VH1 annually called Hip Hop Honors.

Posted by lex on Monday, 02.19.07 @ 07:42am

I think Country and Jazz and R and B guys are included because early Rock N' Roll combines those three styles often. That being said, I don't think Miles David belongs in the Hall, nor Johnny Cash. He's a bad ass, but he's not Rock N' Roll even if he was on Sun Records.
As much as I love NWA and many other rappers, There is a Rap hall of fame somewhere and I think that's how it should be.

Posted by Who cares about my name on Monday, 02.19.07 @ 10:35am

no strings no hall !!!!

Posted by kid on Wednesday, 02.7.07 @ 16:20pm

So the Temptations shouldn't be in?

Posted by Al Vorse on Monday, 02.19.07 @ 14:53pm

No Rap should be allowed. If you don't have Guitars then you shouldn't get in. Form a Rap Hall of Fame if you have to. Personally I can't stand Rap.

Posted by John on Sunday, 02.25.07 @ 22:21pm

You know what, just change the damn hall of fame to the Music Hall of Fame so everyone can just shut up.

Posted by maplejet on Tuesday, 02.27.07 @ 11:23am

It would be stupid not to. Why allow some groups and not allow others. Rap/hip-hop is obviously influential, I'd say YEAH! Just like how there is good/bad rock, pop, country, there is good and bad rap acts too.

Posted by Matt on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 11:21am

no rap should not rock is rock rap is rap they can just stay out of it there is no way i would ever visit the museam again if any sort of rap was in the hall NO IS THE ANSWER!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Michael on Wednesday, 02.28.07 @ 17:55pm

I personally don't think rock is dead, just maimed. I believe the words of Bon Scott(AC/DC) when he said rock and roll will survive! I think the genre has definitely fallen and left the mainstream(to a point that rock is sort of only alive in the sense of unsigned bands and in the hearts of it's fans.). this article sort of just made me slightly irrotated(well. . .enough to post a comment) because I don't think we should EVER look to the rock and roll hall of fame to define the genre. I think that is taking away from the music. . .And I really don't think an MTV news reporter and former Hall rep.(or whatever he called it) has any authority to say anything about rock and roll. MTV ditched rock and roll a long time ago. . .

Posted by Matt on Friday, 03.2.07 @ 11:59am

The problem is rock has become such a generalized term these days. In stead of making new Hall's they need to just re-name the rock hall to Music Hall of Fame! because if they can induct a rap group before they do kiss(Not a HUGE kiss fan but they came long before this rap group and were easily ten times more popular and influential) than they can't call themselves a Rock hall. I have never like the Rock and Roll hall of Fame because rock to me isn't just a genre of music, It is an entire way of thinking, an entire outlook on life(with of course a basic common sound to the music). and I personally think that TOO MANY people these days throw the term rock around like it is another word for popular music! and I agree with the guy above me, MTV and the Hall foundation left Rock and Roll a LONG time ago. . .

Posted by Billy on Friday, 03.2.07 @ 12:14pm

"I believe the words of Bon Scott(AC/DC) when he said rock and roll will survive!"

I believe you're thinking of Brian Johnson.

Posted by William on Saturday, 03.3.07 @ 18:34pm

I think this is easy. The answer is yes.

As much as hip-hop has changed the musical world in the last few decades there have been very few unique artists who have left a legitimate mark. Almost all of the rappers disappear after one or two albums and those albums are practicily disposable as it is.

If a rapper can make an album that has legitimately stood the test of time (like fear of a black planet, liscense to ill, the chronic...etc.) then of course they should be inducted.

Posted by AZ Dave on Sunday, 03.4.07 @ 10:18am

If you don't think rap artists can write about issues that are politically relevant then check out "Alive" or "Sabotage" by the Beastie Boys, "The Cool" by Lupe Fiasco, or "Fight The Power" by Public Enemy. Really any song by Public Enemy was political. Public Enemy can be considered revolutionary music both in the fact that they called for revolution, and in the fact that their music changed hip-hop. They were the first to solely focus on tackling political subjects.

If you want guitars then listen to "Rock Box" by Run DMC, "No Sleep Til Brooklyn" by the Beastie Boys, "99 Problems" by Jay-Z, "Rock The Bells" by LL Cool J.

The fact is that some people think that anytime a black person pics up a microphone and is backed by only two turntables for his instrumentals, he/she are not capable of producing music that will carry a legacy. To those people i say, listen to N.W.A, listen to Tupac, listen to the Notorious B.I.G., listen to A Tribe Called Quest, listen to the Beastie Boys, listen to Public Enemy, listen to Run DMC, listen Black Star (Mos Def & Talib Kweli), listen to De La Soul, listen to Nas, listen to Jay Z, listen to Eminem.

People say that rap music requires no talent. Let us not forget Socrates, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and Malcom X among many other famous orators who left a legacy with their words. Rap in its true form is simply an extension of these famous speakers. Rap's main attraction is (or at least was) its lyrics, rock and roll was built around guitar solos and chorus's.

i'm not saying artists like lil jon or mike jones should ever be mentioned in the same breath as the beatles or rolling stones.

but artists like public enemy, beastie boys, and tupac deserve to be.

Posted by Sam on Monday, 03.5.07 @ 11:32am

No Rap should be allowed. If you don't have Guitars then you shouldn't get in. Form a Rap Hall of Fame if you have to. Personally I can't stand Rap.

Posted by John on Sunday, 02.25.07 @ 22:21pm

I guess we should get rid of all the doo-wop and RnB groups then huh?

Posted by Al Vorse on Tuesday, 03.6.07 @ 14:14pm

Is rap art? Is it music? Or is it simply a cheap way to fill CDs for the money without the need for musical genius or any musically interesting ideas? To include rap performers in the R&R Hall would cheapen and demean rock and roll. Rap represents the decadence of popular music. Or to put it another way, it's boring and bad. Keep the rap "artists" out.

Posted by John E. on Wednesday, 03.7.07 @ 02:08am

Yes, some rap is art. Yes, some rap is music. Not all of it of course (just like rock and roll). Don't punish the entire genre because you haven't heard the great rappers. There is plenty of awful music of ALL genres to go around, and no one is arguing to induct bad music.

The premiere rap artists consistently have their music ranked right up there on the top albums of all time.

Posted by c.w. on Wednesday, 03.7.07 @ 07:32am

Take Layla, Highway to Heaven, Hotel California, Baba O'Riley, Little Wing, All Along the Watchtower, Paint It Black, Behind Blue Eyes, I'm Going Home, Old Before My Time, and a thousand or so other rock masterpieces. Could you find anything from rap that ranks with those musically? I think not.

Do rap CDs sell? Some do, which perhaps reflects mainly on commercial process rather than artistic merit. But note that the number one album of all time is by The Eagles and the number one concert tour is by The Rolling Stones. And overall CD sales continue to fall--yes there are illegal copies/downloads and various legal alternatives to CDs, but declining quality is the real culprit.

Posted by John E. on Friday, 03.9.07 @ 22:58pm

So are album sales important or not? You say they aren't, and then you cite them in defense of your rock-centric view. Which is it?

Honestly, I would bet my hat that at least 80% of you are bashing rap without having heard line one of it.

Posted by Kit on Saturday, 03.10.07 @ 00:26am

here we go, the rock & roll hall of fame is about to pull an mtv on us. no longer will it be for rock & roll. name change and down the shitter, please.

Posted by alice on Monday, 03.12.07 @ 14:48pm

The name says it all... "ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME". So why rap or hip hop artists should enter to it??

Posted by Felipe on Monday, 03.12.07 @ 15:08pm

Should Rap be in the Hall of Fame? I would think so only because it's been part of Rock and Roll. The Hall Of Fame is place for those who have influenced others and the industry itself. That's why early pioneers of Hip-Hop are finally being recognized. For me that's all the way to NWA who INTRODUCED gangsta rap to the world.

Those who say that rap is 2 turntables and a microphone should listen to the Roots who actually create their beats with guitars, bass and drums (if you need a visual see a video of LL Cool J doing an unplugged "Mama Said Knock You Out", the band is the Roots).

For those that say Hip-Hop and Rock can't mix.Listen to Run DMC's collaberation w/Aerosmith "Walk This Way". Just know that Run DMC actually used Aerosmith existing lyrics but only tweaked them to make more sense.

Posted by Belamy on Monday, 03.12.07 @ 15:24pm

aheem..... I have read alot of these comments and can understand where alot of you are coming from BUT i have to put my two cents in.

I can tell alot of you guys REALLY don't listen to rap or KNOW what rap is. If you did you wouldn't only mention names like run dmc or snoop dog, 50 cent etc... the radio doesn't play actual RAP they play top 40. Im sure alot of you ROCK fans can't stand the current state of rock right now with all the "emo" stuff that's going on (panic at the disco, franz ferdinand, afi, etc) a hip hop junkie we feel the same way about rap right now and you can't base your feelings on what comes on the radio.

If you were informed about the artform you would have an understanding for poets like common, tupac, biggie, mos def, talib, AND jay z who is ARGUABLY the one of the greatest lyricist.

RAP stands for rhythm and poetry. I bet alot of you didn't know that im sure, and don't actualy understand what makes a hot rap song or lyric.

Now i have a broad spectrum of a music collection and taste BUT artist like the beatles, led zepplin, ya da yada really don't matter to me because i for one can't understand the shit like you don't UNDERSTAND rap.

let's not forget that the same monkeys that started rap indeed started rock and roll. I say monkey's because that's the tone some of these post have. im sorry...rock belongs in the jungle as well.

and im not one of "those" people that play the race card. im just saying.

i hate that rap is always connected to violence. BUT remember how rock was blamed for the deterioration of modern youth? I have gotten into alot of rock but somewhere in my head rock SOOOO could still stand for "a bunch of crazy white depressed devil worship shit that's loud and pointless". omg how dare i say such a thing about rock right? think about it. Your saying the same thing about rap.

Posted by cameron on Monday, 03.12.07 @ 18:19pm

i think it is just stupid lol to tell the truth..not holding any punches. i mean come on ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame not rap and hip hop hall of a previous person stated we cant even get some of the legendary influential rockers in here. so try to add some talentless rappers? come on? stupid movement!

Posted by josh on Monday, 03.12.07 @ 23:18pm

Rap has sex. Rap has drugs. Rap has rebellious attitude and influence. What was Rock and Roll again? You can't judge all rap by what is on MTV now. Just like 'Rock' bands have been over shadowed by the Britneys, Jessicas, and boy toys, there were and are real hip hop ARTISTS out there. Maybe 'Diddy' doesn't get recognized (he gets paidn though..), but Grand Master Flash, Run-DMC, Public Enemy, Naughty By Nature, NWA... They earned it.

Posted by Joe Winters on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 09:18am

NO! NO! NO! Rap is not music, it is undistinguishable ranting and raving silly nonsense screamed into a microphone.

Posted by georgehr3 on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 14:59pm

georgehr3, you do realize that's what people (probably your parents) used to say about rock and roll, right? You pretty much discredit yourself by saying silly things like like "rap is not music."

Just because you're not a fan or haven't made the effort to seek out the great rappers doesn't mean you should brush off an entire cultural movement.

Posted by c.w. on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 15:05pm

lol! some of you guys really hate rap i see!

Seeing that there are already artist in the rrhof that are not rock and roll artist it's only right to have rap artist in there as well. I mean...deny it, hate it or whatever it IS a movement and a valid art form and there are artist out there that certainly have changed the way music is made and produced and it's not going anywhere. foreal it's not.

Rap has very much the same spirit as punk and rock.

AGAIN im not a fan of certain rock artist but i would and can't argue over their nomination or rather no they belong when i don't listen to them. God it's really sad that this discussion is so heated. it's all music. like it or love it.

and i feel you josh on wanting to see certain rock artist in the rrhof. But don't be ignorant. It is bliss you know.....

Posted by cameron on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 19:59pm

and lets not forget the whole POINT of the rrhof. It's not just a museum, so to hold this place as some "sacred shrine" whould be ridiculous. This is the united states of america you know. It's all about money in the end.

Posted by cameron on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 20:24pm

Should hip-hop/rap be allowed in the hall of fame? Absolutely not. Should any self-respecting lover of ROCK music care who the RRHOF inducts? NO; it's a damn joke. Look at the list of bands that are not in there! Look at the bands that are probably NEVER going to get in there. Punk, emo, metal, industrial, goth, alternative,'s ALL STILL ROCK! Rap/hip-hop? Not rock! But again.... why should we care? The RRHOF is BS, and you'll never see me set foot in there.

Posted by DJ Deadboy on Tuesday, 03.13.07 @ 21:16pm

The rock&roll hall of fame should induct rap. Music is not about boundries and lines drawn. Music is about freedom of speech. the same things Rock&roll and rap are based on.When are we as americans going to stop drawing lines across everything and enjoying what we as americans have made. MUSIC!! let it be rock,rap, r&b, music is music. i'm not saying change the name to Music Hall of fame. Leave it as Rock&Roll hall of fame. but recognise what all music brings to the table. thank you

Posted by J.J.Gonzales on Wednesday, 03.14.07 @ 01:01am

i think it should be but i also think that we should consider letting someone like grand master flash and the furious five in over bands like rush,kiss,def leopard,and iron madien. this bands have paid there dues and deserve to get in on the next ballot. once we have all of the great rock bands in then start inducting rappers. even putting one rapper per ballot wouldnt be bad but as we know rap is taking over so in 25 years are going to induct 5 rappers into the hall of fame. in that case make ur own damn hall of fame.

Posted by matt santos on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 12:48pm

Ok, My opinion is no, they shouldnt. I am a punk fan and Im just PO'ed that Grandmaster or whatever got in before the Misfits. They got in before many good classic rock bands that should be in here, even though I dont like them, like Boston and Deep Purple. Rap should have its own fame cause they did have an effect on MUSIC, not specifically rock and roll. I mean, the inductions are crowded enough. How are bands like NoFX, Dropkick Murphys, Rancid, ect. supposed to get in. Hell, many great influential bands arent even on the ballots, such as Anti-Flag and Bouncing Souls. Let alone Screeching Weasel that influenced the great band known as Green Day. I just dont think we need another genre crowding up the industry. Like if Eminem gets in before the Misfits is just unbelieveable.

This is my opinion, I do hate rap, but its more then that. Its not ANY sort of subgenre of Rock, I am not saying they didnt have a place in history, just not in the RnR Hall of Fame.

Posted by Chris Scanlon on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 14:54pm

Rapm is worthy of he rock n' roll hall of fame, because GOOD rap artists who don't allways rap about gettin' with hot chicks and having money, have real stuff to say and say it with the same conviction as rock artists. Rappers can rock too.

Posted by Anna on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 17:19pm

There is no way that rap should be in the hall. I will never understand how talking to a synthesized beat is music. That doesn't even take talent. At least not nearly the amount that it takes to actually sing and play instruments. If the HOF starts inducting rappers they need to drop the Rock and Roll from their name and just start calling it the music and noise hall of fame or something.

Posted by Tyler on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 17:20pm

Well, if certain people are music snobs and don't know how to appriciate all aspects of music then you can never truely appriciate rock and all its roots and in a way rock has influenced rap so rap should definatly be inducted in the HOF.

Posted by Anna on Thursday, 03.15.07 @ 17:25pm

Are rap artists not musicians? Do they not have to make up their beats? Do they not have to write their lyrics and spit them at a certain pace with a certain flow to make it sound like hmm music? A Rapper should be just as eligible as a guitarist or a drummer, so obviously the answer is yes. RUN DMC didnt get good by having other people do all the work for them, if u work to achieve what u have then u deserve to reap the benefits

Posted by Sean on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 02:25am

No, Its The ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame, right?

Posted by jtodas on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 15:02pm

No. If rap was ment to be in rock 'n roll charts, they wouldn't call it rap. They are two different genres and shouldn't be mixed. You can't just go putting rap in everything because it'll get peoples attention. So if you want rap in it, make a new hall!

Posted by Kristen on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 15:19pm

I realize that I may be biased, because I hate all rap as rabidly as a person who likes rap hates music, but of course no institution purporting to be a museum of rock and roll history should have anything to do with rap.

Of course it doesn't really matter in this case, since the Crock and Roll Hall of Shame is a complete travesty anyway.

Posted by Todd on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 16:52pm

Saying that a rap fan hates music is downright stupid.

Stop projecting your own terrible taste on others.

Posted by William on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 17:32pm

not rap as a whole. for this IS rock&roll. BUT some legendary hip hop artists would be acceptable. like Beastie Boys, Run DMC, and Dr. Dre. those would be alright.

Posted by kris10 on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 18:22pm

why do you guys let artists that do not play actual instruments (Rap) to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and let the artists that do play instruments in?

Posted by Justin on Friday, 03.16.07 @ 22:13pm

I put no because rap is not rock and eminem and stuff like that should not be added cus they just dont belong (thats my comment)

Posted by Sara on Saturday, 03.17.07 @ 13:28pm

"NO STRINGS...NO HALL" The RRHOF has become a joke. The ceremony is held in NYC instead of Cleveland. Inductees don't even show up for their induction. And now, even non rock and rollers are inducted. NO - Rap should not be in the hall. And certainly not before deserving "ROCK AND ROLL" musicians like Neil Diamond,KISS and RUSH, who have sold more records than all of 2007's inductees combined. RRHOF...Give me a break!!!

Posted by Aaron Noe on Sunday, 03.18.07 @ 00:44am

only certain rappers like the bestie boys deserve to be in.

Posted by jason duncan on Sunday, 03.18.07 @ 06:47am

Rap is not rock & roll. It's rhyming to a beat, and even then it's usually a sampled beat. I really think it needs a hall of fame of it's own.

Posted by Jordan on Sunday, 03.18.07 @ 23:23pm

it is called the rock and roll hall of fame not the rap hall of fame ok rap is the lowest type of entertainment where is the skill u dont sing u just talk fast the most influential rapper ever.............dr.seuss no rap does not belong it says it in the title rock and roll and the other genre we are putting in now is rap come on thats crap

Posted by greg on Monday, 03.19.07 @ 11:51am

I like the way everybody tries to act like there is no difference between actual rock bands and rap. A 10 year old could see the difference. Everybody wants to be politically correct and allow rap "bands" into the hall of fame, but look at how the heavy metal bands are treated and neglected. These are people who have spent years learning to play actual instruments and can sing their asses off and are snubbed but it is OK to allow someone into the hall of fame who plays a damn record player and steals other people's music while five other guys talk. The Hall Of Fame is a joke. Where is Motorhead, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Danzig, Deep Purple, Rush, and Kiss. I am not even a Kiss or Rush fan but I am smart enough to realize their contributions to rock and just the simple fact that they actually play ROCK!

Posted by Metalhead on Monday, 03.19.07 @ 12:47pm


Posted by CAYCE on Monday, 03.19.07 @ 15:54pm

I hope this helps with the debate:

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is ‘dedicated to recording the history of some of the best-known and most influential artists, producers, and other people who have in some major way influenced the music industry, particularly in the area of rock and roll’ (Roger Friedman. Rock Hall of Fame Fallout: 'There Is Resentment Building Up, FOX News, 2001-04-04).

Therefore, to be accepted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the inductee must have influenced the music industry in a salient way, predominantly in the genre of rock and roll. When considering whether Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five should have been inducted, it is imperative that the aforementioned be considered.

Firstly, Grandmaster Flash is a hip-hop musician and DJ; one of the pioneers of hip hop.
Hip hop music, also known as rap music, is a style of music which came into existence in the United States during the mid-1970s, and became a large part of modern pop culture during the 1980s. It consists of two main components: rapping (MCing) and DJing (production and scratching). Along with hip hop dance (notably breakdancing) and urban inspired art, or notably graffiti, these compose the four elements of hip hop, a cultural movement that was initiated by inner-city youth, in New York City in the 1970s (Bogdanov, Vladamir. All Music Guide to Hip Hop: The Definitive Guide to Rap & Hip Hop. San Francisco, CA: Backbeat Books, 2003).

Typically, hip hop music consists of rhythmic lyrics making use of techniques like assonance, alliteration, and rhyme. The rapper is accompanied by an instrumental track, usually referred to as a "beat," performed by a DJ, created by a producer, or one or more instrumentalists. Historically, this beat has often been created using a sample of the percussion break of another song: usually funk, soul and disco recordings have been utilized. DJ Kool Herc and Grandmaster Flash both independently isolated and repeated these parts of the music for the purpose of all-night dance parties, making him a pioneer of the rave scene (George, Nelson. Hip Hop America. New York: Viking, 1998).

The 1981 Grandmaster Flash album release The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel was the first time that record scratching had ever been recorded on a record (Hager, Steven. Hip Hop: The Illustrated History of Break Dancing, Rap Music, and Graffiti. New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1984). Scratching is still of great importance in determining the skill of a DJ. Today, in recorded hip-hop songs, it is common to have a scratched hook where lines from different rap songs are scratched in succession.

Grandmaster Flash is therefore quite important as an influencer for a generation of acts to follow as he provided the musical backbone for rappers to perform to, as he brought the backbeats of disco and soul (all danceable rhythms) to the forefront. Today, rap is more influenced by the development of electronic music from early 1930s through to today throughout the use of loops, samples, drum machines and synthesizers.

The actual lyrics of rap can be traced back to the Mills Brothers; especially their track the love bug will bite you released in 1937. It is here that the Mills Brothers became the first popular act to use comedy to tap into the middle white market of the time, with the use of vocal instrument impersonations and scattering, which were invented through African American singing acts using non-sense syllables.

Although Grandmaster Flash has been of some influence in the music industry, he has very low ties to the genre of rock and roll.

Traditionally rock and roll developed mainly due to the rebellion factor, and is most popular through two particular elements; the traditional rock and roll line up – drums, bass, electric guitar and vocal, which was formed by Lester Melrose an A and R manager to use for Muddy Waters in 1941. Therefore, rock drew from elements of rhythmicized blues (Gillet, Charlie. 1983. The Sound of the City, London: Souvenir Press pp121-151).

The second element is that of the standard rock and roll rhythm or the popularity of the snare backbeat on beats 2 and 4. This was mainly due to the drummer having to play louder as back in those days the drum’s were not miked up; the drummer therefore had to play less complicated parts in order to make their part louder, and to keep up with the amplified guitars and vocals whilst providing rhythmic interest and momentum to the songs (counts 2 and 4 are accentuated by the snare either with a crotchet on the 2 and 2 semi-quavers on beat 4, or 2 semi-quavers on beat 2 and a crotchet on beat 4). This was created by Bill Haley (used mostly in the late 1950’s) from western swing influences and was also heavily used by the Beatles (Longhurst, Brian. 1995. Popular Music and Society. Polity Press: Cambridge pp.94-107). Grandmaster Flash did not incorporate and creatively innovate any of these particular rock and roll elements.

These two elements are only a minor part of what defines the genre of rock, however these two elements are not apparent in the genre of rap; there is no backbeat (unless it is a scratched loop derived from an existing song) and the line-up mostly contains electronic units i.e. a dj with 2 cd players, cd’s and a mixer with a vocalist and back-up dancers.

The closest Grandmaster Flash comes to rock is funk, in which he is not a pioneer of this genre, nor has he influenced the genre greatly such as the likes of Prince or James Brown. His biggest influence for the rock genre comes from Audioslave guitarist Tom Morello, who is known for his scratching-inspired guitar solos, which he creates by rubbing his fingers on the strings over the pick ups with and using the pickup selector switch on the guitar, typically run through a wah or auto-wah, and one or more envelope filters.

Grandmaster Flash has contributed greatly to his genre of music, not rock and roll. However, rock and roll is not an all important factor when being inducted into the genres hall of fame. With that, unfortunately a lot of great acts in the rock genre are neglected by the system, making the hall of fame loose some credibility. Maybe the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame stands for something important to an era, like rock and roll was to the 50’s, 60’s even 70’s or Rap was to the 1980’s and 1990’s. Most seem to be worried that the ramifications of this particular induction will floodgate the hall with a bunch of mediocre rap artists. However, majority of rap artists have not influenced the industry to such an extent or have not been successfully selling records for over 25 years. (c)

Posted by Poster on Wednesday, 03.21.07 @ 07:51am

Thank God!!! for Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five!!! Where would this world and the music industry be without them??? Probably more fucked up than it already is.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Wednesday, 03.21.07 @ 13:36pm

ROCK AND ROLL, NOT RAP AND ROLL. Open a Rap Hall of Fame, you fucks!

Posted by ROCK AND ROLL on Friday, 03.23.07 @ 16:30pm

rap is lame and played out, NWA tried to put an edge on it like there was on rock n roll, but they just came off as funny kids, rap will never have the balls that rock n roll had, rap is ranked up there with boy bands and pop stars, they're all soft. Adults still prefer rap music to rock because rock is too loud and hard and evil while rap is just a black guy trying pretty hard to come off as tough that its just funny, most of those rappers are god fearing anyway, how edgy is that? NWA, Eminem, 2pac, 3 Six Mafia, all are funny pop acts that can never be as hard as Sabbath, Pantera or Sex Pistols, who will always be feared by parents for its content. Rap music, you are officially lame.

Posted by late on Friday, 03.23.07 @ 16:38pm

Just because most rap artists don't SCREAM.. if your into that shit then there are hardcore artists out there

Posted by jke on Friday, 03.23.07 @ 16:57pm

Rap...In The Rock And Roll Hall of Fame?
HA! Hells No! Come on! Can you Rock to rap? I think not...COME ON YOU DUMBA****!!!

p.s Screw 50 Cent!!! I have 5 dimes but I don't like it!

P.s.s Music is like Candy, Gotta throw away the rappers.

Posted by Jake & Jeremiah on Tuesday, 03.27.07 @ 11:44am

To tell you the truth I want the hip-hop artist starting from Grandmaster Flash going maybe to Outkast in that that timeline to be inducted cause todays hip-hop is becoming like "we rap cause we want to be rich and wear expensive bling 2x"

Posted by PRL18 on Tuesday, 03.27.07 @ 21:11pm

I believe rap should be included. But not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. For the mere reason that it is not rock. I believe they should change the name of R&R Hall of Fame to something like the "American Music Hall of Fame' kind of like the UK does it. I certantly believe that Run DMC,Public Enemy and the Beastie Boys deserve to be in there more than The Ronnetes(however you spell it,who cares)and the Talking Heads for example.

Posted by Who's TALKING on Tuesday, 03.27.07 @ 21:43pm

Rap dose not belong in the Rock and rool hall of fame here's why rap suck it a totally differnet genre it not related to rock also the style is very different yes rock is divers with many genres but did any one of them promot racism killing cops raping women and make up their own languag in one whole song no. I admit People do swear in rockin roll and do stuff like that but never that far also did you not that hip-hop is causing racial problems in some part of the usa so people hip-hop should get it's own hof

Posted by Ryan on Thursday, 03.29.07 @ 14:27pm

Sure, let rap in. The north shore has always been a great place to dump trash/garbage/waste. Simply because african black would fight over which coast to put a Rap Hall, so sure, dump um in Cleveland.

Posted by Dunit on Sunday, 04.1.07 @ 12:09pm

public enemy,run dmc,beasties,wu tang,ll coolj,biggie,cube,nwa sure its rock and roll of course it they should be inducted this music opened my ears and my eyes at the same time how many bands were influenced by these artists

Posted by will rivera on Monday, 04.2.07 @ 10:49am

Sorry only 2pac should be inducted

Posted by Dave on Monday, 04.9.07 @ 04:36am

Considering the likes of Public Enemy, Run DMC and other huge rap groups over the years have been influenced heavily by early funk bands like James Bown & Funkadelic and even soul, they are clearly eligible for the Hall Of Fame. Rap is just a more advanced version of rock n' roll just like every other style of music is somewhat influenced by rock n' roll. Given that Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five are aleady inducted I think it's pefectly logical to induct rap artists. In saying that, I don't mean 50 Cent or even Jay-Z. I mean truly influencial artists like Public Enemy, N.W.A, Kurtis Blow, Rakim, Bug Daddy Kane and Afrika Bambaataa should be educted for their contribution to a musical style just as important as any other for the huge impact it's made social on the well-being of people and their life.

These artists should be praised. To look down on them just for being rappers or simply not liking them is not a good excuse.

Posted by Jack Donnelly on Monday, 04.9.07 @ 19:27pm

I hate these idiots who are like "Oh Pantera are hard!" Just because they'e fuckin' hard doesn't mean they derserve to be in the Hall Of Fame. That idiot saying "Rap music will never be hard. You are officially lame." You've got it wrong mate. YOU'RE the lame one. I saw one guy posting about 3 Six Mafia, Eminem and 50 Cent. Good job in naming the shittest rappers alive. They don't deserve shit (except maybe Eminem) but look at Public Enemy. One of the most influencial groups of ll time and will absolutely SMOKE any metal band you throw at them. Pantera, Metallica, Sex Pistols. Rap artists have made a difference to society moe so than most rock and rool bands and THAT'S why white public figures speak out against it. Because rappers had the balls to speak out. Pantera don't deserve shit mate. You're lame. Run DMC never spoke about killing people or "g"'s or gold o how many bitches they had. They delt with the social issues. If anything, Rap music has done FAR more for black (and white) people than rock n' roll and even the government have done for anybody. And that's given them a fuckin' voice.

People should stop being so fuckin' ARROGANT and saying that rap is shit and not able to justify why. Especially when it's written by a fuckin' illegible delinquent like Ryan. The arguments against ap seem to be from the same idiotic, red-neck racist mentality who have absolutly no understanding of what it means to criticise something logically.

Rap & Hip-Hop deserve a place in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.

MUCH more than metal for fuck SAKE.

Posted by Rufus Marley on Monday, 04.9.07 @ 19:37pm

I hate these idiots who are like "Oh Pantera are hard!" Just because they'e fuckin' hard doesn't mean they derserve to be in the Hall Of Fame. That idiot saying "Rap music will never be hard. You are officially lame." You've got it wrong mate. YOU'RE the lame one. I saw one guy posting about 3 Six Mafia, Eminem and 50 Cent. Good job in naming the shittest rappers alive. They don't deserve shit (except maybe Eminem) but look at Public Enemy. One of the most influencial groups of ll time and will absolutely SMOKE any metal band you throw at them. Pantera, Metallica, Sex Pistols. Rap artists have made a difference to society moe so than most rock and rool bands and THAT'S why white public figures speak out against it. Because rappers had the balls to speak out. Pantera don't deserve shit mate. You're lame. Run DMC never spoke about killing people or "g"'s or gold o how many bitches they had. They delt with the social issues. If anything, Rap music has done FAR more for black (and white) people than rock n' roll and even the government have done for anybody. And that's given them a fuckin' voice.

People should stop being so fuckin' ARROGANT and saying that rap is shit and not able to justify why. Especially when it's written by a fuckin' illegible delinquent like Ryan. The arguments against ap seem to be from the same idiotic, red-neck racist mentality who have absolutly no understanding of what it means to criticise something logically.

Rap & Hip-Hop deserve a place in the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame.

MUCH more than metal for fuck SAKE.

Posted by Rufus Marley on Monday, 04.9.07 @ 19:37pm

Your message makes it's point about the lyric.
And the messages delivering impact.
But what about the MUSIC of rap?
Thats what I personally have a problem with.
What is your take on the intrumental craftsmanship.

It seems (to me) the damage that rap and even punk has done is given a message that musically ability doesn't matter anymore.
(rhyming doesn't count)
There is a disconnect with rock fans like me that feel the artists like EMERSON,FRIPP,STEVE HOWE,RITCHIE BLACKMORE,IAN ANDERSON,NEIL PEART AND JOHN McLAUGHLIN'S of the world haven't got their due and have been bypassed.
And now we are talking about the credibility of rap? I'm not talking about a couple of rap stars that went to music school but the genre as a whole.
Tell me your take on "THE MUSIC"

Posted by anthony on Monday, 04.9.07 @ 20:41pm

Rap does not belong in the RRHOF. It is not rock. If you put rappers in put the country artists to. No one would go for that so why put rap in the RRHOF? Do not draw comparisons between the rock and rap lifestyles. Maybe their are some similar things about them. Maybe their are some similar things about the music to. But RAP IS NOT ROCK! Who cares about how politically relevant someone's message is? If it's not rock, it's not rock. A relevant message should not be a reason to get in. As for the message of rap. Yes there are some "artists" in this field who have a message. But 90% of it is talking trash about women or shooting someone. Yes, some rappers have lived that life. But that's what the overwhelming majority of it is. There have been some country artists who have made it to the RRHOF. They were early pioneers who started out in rock, or who changed to rock later down the line. By the way. RAP SUCKS!!

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 04.10.07 @ 07:05am

I guess they do belong in the RRHOF. Like the guy earlier said,two of them played guitar on "one whole song" from their second album. True genius. Now I do know that rap belongs in the RRHOF even though it is not rock. Put these guys in beside Zepplin and Pink Floyd. They practically changed the way the wheel was made.

Posted by Tim on Tuesday, 04.10.07 @ 07:11am

"Considering the likes of Public Enemy, Run DMC and other huge rap groups over the years have been influenced heavily by early funk bands like James Bown & Funkadelic and even soul, they are clearly eligible for the Hall Of Fame. Rap is just a more advanced version of rock n' roll just like every other style of music is somewhat influenced by rock n' roll."

Every other style of music is influenced by Rock? What about Psychedelic Trance, do you think that has been greatly influenced by Rock? I hope not.

Also, just because some artists you mentioned have apparently been influenced by James Brown, I fail to see how this is enough to grant them eligibility status into the hall of fame? Just because they drew influence from someone who is in the rock and roll hall of fame does not directly grand them entry.

Furthermore, I'm curious how rap is a more advanced version of Rock? Musicians and Musicologists around the world fail to see this link. Musically, how has rap fundamentally changed the genre of rock into rap? Musically, rap literally has no link to Rock. They don’t even share the same origins. This goes against all logic, music history and popular music theory.

I am in no way bagging rap as a genre; I just think you need to think carefully before making false statements.

Posted by Poster on Tuesday, 04.10.07 @ 07:15am

I wonder? Are there any Rap virtuoso's out there?
Can anyone tell me about its musical integrity?
All I ever hear about is it's GRAND message.

Posted by anthony on Tuesday, 04.10.07 @ 22:42pm

It doesn't matter if a rapper was influenced by a particular rock musician. They still don't play rock. A country artist could be influenced by a certain rock musician. Does that mean they should get into the RRHOF? It doesn't matter that both forms of music derived from the blues. They are two differen't forms of music. I don't know how closely tied country music is into the blues field. That is how it originated in comparison to the blues. But if they find out it directly tied to it,does that mean that all great country artists should be eligible for the RRHOF? I don't think so. Just because a rap artist has occasionally used guitar on certain songs, that doesn't mean they should one day be eligible for the RRHOF. Rock music uses guitars just like country. Does that mean all rock musicians should be elible for the country music hall of fame? Same difference. It never fails to amaze me the lame technicalities that people try to use to validate their point. By the way where are all these rock rap groups? The Red Hot Chili Peppers are not a rap rock group. They have been funk based for years. Yes, they do have songs where they have rapped somewhat. But they are far more funk than anything else. Faith No More isn't even close. The song Epic and a few others do not make them a rap group. The vast majority of their music is flat out rock. Most of the people who think that rap should be in the RRHOF are younger rap fans. Bottom Line: rap isn't rock so start the rap hall of shame.

Posted by Frank on Wednesday, 04.11.07 @ 11:44am

There is more to Rock music than just loud ass fuckin' guitars. Does everybody that gets put in the Hall have to play a damn guitar??? If that's the case then they should put in more old BLUES artist because that is where all this Rock N Roll shit originated from anyway.

Posted by Joe Skee on Wednesday, 04.11.07 @ 15:40pm

Basically, it comes down to the fact that if you open the door to rap music you are not going to be able to shut it. If it does go forward, there will have to be seven or eight additional rap/hip-hop artists being inducted every year. Ok yes so many rock bands are influenced by rap but that doesnt mean they are rap bands. A Rap hall of fame should be created and then the problem would pretty much be solved.

Posted by liam on Thursday, 04.12.07 @ 05:14am

I don't think there will suddenly be a huge influx of rap artists, especially not seven or more a year. Space in the Hall is at a premium as is.

Posted by William on Thursday, 04.12.07 @ 17:14pm

I love rap infact im doing a report on the history of rap. My teacher doesn't want me to. So yes I think you should!!!!

Posted by rey rae on Friday, 04.13.07 @ 10:30am

I'm a fan of rap, in the fullest sense of the word. Listening to music all the way back to Sugar Hill Gang, to the underground (not mainstream) artists of now. I feel that Rock and Roll should remain distinguished from rap, because it has its own time and place in history, and that mixing the two would convolude their representation. Rap should establish its own Hall to commerate their milestone artists. Rap had a dissimiliar struggle to rock, which is why it should break off and create something unto itself.

Posted by Sean on Saturday, 04.14.07 @ 19:25pm

In my opinion, before the question of Rap can be addressed, The Hall of Fame should re-name itelf "The Popular Music Hall of Fame".

The following ROCK N ROLL artists have not been inducted into The Rock And Roll Hall of Fame:

LINK WRAY ("Rumble", 1958), JOHNNY BURNETTE TRIO ("Train Kept A-Rollin", 1956), SCREAMIN' JAY HAWKINS ("I Put A Spell On You", 1956), DICK DALE ("Misirlou", 1961), THE VENTURES ("Walk Don't Run"), BOBBY FULLER ("I Fought The Law!", 1966), DALE HAWKINS ("SUZIE Q", 1958)...

...come on guys, get it together!!!

Each of these artists have/had more ROCK N ROLL in their LITTLE FINGER than present "R&R HOF" inductees: The Eagles, Earth, Wind & Fire, Billy Joel & (even) Miles Davis.

No offense, but these are either 'ROCK'/POP artists (or 'Jazz', in the case of Miles.) This is NOT "Rock And Roll", period.

Until The "Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame" inducts the artists I listed, I consider them "The Hall of Shame", for neglecting the artists that truly put their heart & soul into the music and toured endlessly to bring the music to the people. Check out The Rockabily Hall of Fame...

now THAT'S Rock N Roll!!

Posted by (((dave))) on Sunday, 04.15.07 @ 13:17pm

...and don't assign them that "early influence" crap, like you did to Howlin' Wolf, Willie Dixon, etc. These guys were MONUMENTAL contributors to Rock N Roll!! Don't give them some token "honorable mention" Bullshit. The R&R HOF is a joke!

Posted by (((dave))) on Sunday, 04.15.07 @ 13:26pm

For you rap fans that don't understand what that means: It means that if the music was not generated by a vibrating string such as in a guitar or piano or the bottom of a snare drum it is not ROCK music. And no, the electrical cord to a turntable does not count. It is after all the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame. Not swing, not jazz, not Mexican Mariachy...It's Rock and Roll dammit!

Posted by Aaron Noe on Sunday, 04.15.07 @ 16:59pm

Not even sure why the question is even posed. People often make things much more complicated than it need be. Rap is art, rap can be good (I used to dig Eric B. & Rakim, Beasties, BDP) in some instances.

However, it is not Rock and never will be. I remember once talking to a musician and we were talking about "Fusion" (i.e. mixing jazz and rock). He then joked and called it "Confusion." The fact is, even if some artists decide to "blend" rock and rap on occasion by throwing in a guitar rift or conversely, throwing in a "rhyme", it does not make it good and certainly does not qualify it for the RRHOF

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, 04.15.07 @ 19:02pm

I think Outkast for sure should get in, they sarted with a funky style of rap in early 90's (heavily influential) and then made an eclectic form of their own music. Bands like Outkast deserve to be in the Rock and Roll hall of fame no matter if they are part rap or not.

Posted by Derus on Monday, 04.16.07 @ 21:12pm

I do not think RAP should be in the Rock-n-Roll hall of fame. From a music standpoint. But from a business standpoint.
And I am very suspicious of Grandmaster Flash's induction.
They were inducted only a few years after eligibility while a whole genre of progressive rock greats were bypassed. ELP,YES,Jethro Tull,Genesis Not to mention Acts like Chicago,N.Diamond and Deep Purple and Alice Cooper. All eligible since the 1990's.

Here's my theory : Everything is about money.
And the hall and everyone involved wants the "Rap fan" and generation of fans to be aware and visit the hall. And make money off that fan base.
The Fans of the ELP's and Deep Purple's are already visiting the hall.
Do you think for a moment if Ozzy Osbourne did not have the TV show and become this friendly puppet that Black Sabbath would have gotten in. They might have gotten shelved out too.
So I think rap's induction and future inductions are part of hip fashionable business decisions.

A band like Chicago with a huge catalog,Performed for four decades,four #1 albums. Seems to me their just not fashionable enough to make anyone money right now.

Posted by Anthony Rubbo on Tuesday, 04.17.07 @ 20:50pm

Just as country, gospel, and blue paved the way for the rock 'n' roll sound, so to did rock in turn pave the way for hip-hop/rap. So, I think without rock, there would be no rap. One goes hand in hand with the other. And since both genres have been embracing/influencing each other and blending together in the last 25 years, I feel it's only fitting that hip-hop artists now get their recognition in the Rock Hall.

Posted by Alex C on Friday, 04.20.07 @ 23:01pm

I agree with Anthony Rubbo's comments about those artists who have been long overdue for Rock Hall induction. Everything IS about money these days and who can draw the biggest gate and ratings. It's very disheartening! But unfortunately, that's the way it is in today's society...

I dream of the day when the Induction Committee finally wakes up and gives all of the overlooked artists their due, regardless of "star power". It's a damn shame that all the artists Anthony mentioned haven't been recognized yet, especially Chicago! That's a whole other crime in itself!!

But other artists like John Mellencamp, Heart, Journey, Foreigner, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, legendary rock producer Mutt Lange, Christopher Cross (yes, him!), The Cars, Blondie, The Doobie Brothers, Styx, Ted Nugent, Iggy Pop & the Stooges, I mean the list goes on and on!

And what's up with the amount of inductees in the last three years? Only five artists each of those years?! Come on, that's pathetic! What happened to the earlier days of the inductions when an average of 8 artists a year were getting in? Hell, in 1987, 15 got in, the most ever! Not to mention the seven other non-performers and early influences that year, for a grand total of 22 inductees!!

If the Rock Hall wants to really improve it's credibility, it's time for them to start getting serious! Put more people in each year and STOP PLAYING FAVORITES!!!

Posted by Alex C on Friday, 04.20.07 @ 23:55pm

Ok, Ok! I take back Christopher Cross.

Posted by Alex C on Saturday, 04.21.07 @ 00:11am

I guess if one was to play the early influences card...we could include all songs clear back to the song of Soloman in the Bible. It could be said that ancient music influenced rap if one wanted to get technical. So where do we draw the line ... if we draw a line at all ? If we're gonna include infinite genres, then just call it a music hall of fame period. But Rock 'n Roll defines a specific genre.... and it should be free of current and ever changing social pressures to conform.

Posted by Mike on Sunday, 04.22.07 @ 18:26pm

why not just make a music hall of fame with various genre.

Posted by John B. on Monday, 04.23.07 @ 11:34am

sorry mike I posted with reading your's you told it like is.

Posted by John B. on Monday, 04.23.07 @ 11:40am

You know, after carefully taking into consideration all of the comments I've read on this topic, I'm gonna have to agree with those who think there should be a name change of the Hall. Because let's face it: the music has evolved and branched out into so many different genres of music over the last 40+ years that the term "rock & roll" isn't really relevant anymore. It's become more than just rock.
So, in all fairness, I think they should change it to the Rock and Popular Music Hall of Fame, or at least something to that effect. I mean, it's really too late to take away Grandmaster Flash's induction now, along with all the other artists who have already been inducted and have never played an instrument during their careers(i.e. Michael Jackson, Aretha Franklin, etc.). And anyways, it just wouldn't be right!

Posted by Alex C. on Monday, 04.23.07 @ 23:20pm

I totally agree the Rock-n-Roll Hall of fame should be the "Popular" music Hall of fame as stated on the eariler comment. And Rap is Popular Music.
The POP moniker needs to be used.
Opening it up to all music is too vast. There are well over 1400 music styles. Everything from Accapella to Zydeco.
Progressive rock acts like my favorite "Emerson Lake and Palmer" Have songs in their cannon that aren't even rock at all. And many others strayed too far from the rock path or are arguably not in the true rock-n-roll genre and are being considered and voted on in this very site
So change the name of the Hall and It will be fine to celebrate Rap inductees.

Posted by Anthony Rubbo on Tuesday, 04.24.07 @ 16:48pm

I dont care a flying hoot about the rock hall now it is an utter discrace!!!

Posted by george on Wednesday, 04.25.07 @ 15:52pm

I should correct myself. Aretha Franklin did in fact play the piano, and still does today.

Posted by Alex C. on Thursday, 04.26.07 @ 22:12pm

I would tend to agree that the Hall should be renamed something like "The Popular Music Hall Of Fame". This allows for some flexibility with genres, sub-genres, blended genres or whatever.
I also agree that trying to identify a specific genre is like trying to nail jello to a wall - it's pretty much undefinable.

The term "Rock and Roll" has been so burnt into the public consiousness, that I wonder whether the Hall would ever consider changing it. It would be like admitting a mistake - heaven forbid!

I also wonder about the general age of the voting members of the Hall. If it is tilted to a younger age - then artists like Alice Cooper, The Moody Blues, Yes .... would seem to have less and less chance of getting in with every passing year. It's not that newer artists shouldn't get in - many definitely deserve to.... it's just that several excellent and influental artists of the past may be getting left behind in the dust.

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 05.1.07 @ 18:20pm

no way! no rap please.
i'm really tired of that stuff.
some rap is ok but no.

Posted by cheyenne on Tuesday, 05.1.07 @ 20:19pm

some rap is iffy.
but no.
its the rrhof and how does rock and roll come conpare with rap??
it makes no sense.
rap is not real music.

Posted by kody on Tuesday, 05.1.07 @ 20:27pm

No. Why do you think it's called The ROCK N ROLL Hall Of Fame for? Also, going off topic, I also don't wanna end up seeing the worlds worst groups like Good Charolate, Simple Plan, and Billy Talent, and so being inducted into here in years from now.

Posted by Jess on Wednesday, 05.2.07 @ 13:49pm

It's useless to overdefine Rock and Roll to exclude Rap and Hip Hop. It is itself innovation of Rock and Roll to another plane, just like the invention of the electric guitar, piano, stereo recording, and computer mixing.

In fact, the chronology of the Hall is an unrolling red carpet welcoming Rap as a form of Rock and Roll: James Brown to Aretha Franklin to Otis Redding to Ike and Tina Turner and Wilson Pickett to Isaac Hayes to Parliament-Funkadelic and the Jackson Five to Grandmaster Flash. An evolution of Hip Hop.

Rap has the Rock and Roll soul of rebellion. It's very existence rebels from the last generation of Rock and Roll. It has hard-hitting power in lyric and music. They are distinct yet inseperable.

Posted by Moni3 on Saturday, 05.5.07 @ 21:51pm

i think that rap should be allowed into the rock and roll hall of fame.

the genres may be a bit different, but over the course of time rap has infused itself into rock, and rock has done likewise. both genres borrow from each other in todays music, so why cant they be inshrined in the same place?

i dont think artists like 50 cent, an ja rule will gain the credit needed to be a hip hop artist worthy of being inshrined.

but what of artists like dr. dre, and snoop dogg, EPMD, Eric B and Rakim, Eminem, or even Kanye West if he continues to make albums as good as he has.

and what of hip hops best BAND The Roots

whos to say they dont deserve a place?

Posted by Phil on Wednesday, 05.9.07 @ 12:06pm

i really think inducting rap into the rock n roll hall of fame was a big mistake, now in time theres going to be alot of rappers in there. theres a reason its called ROCK 'n' ROLL HALL OF FAME, not no talent hall of fame, now its going to be 90% rock n roll 10% shitty ass rap. u happy u stupid fucks

Posted by beer drinker on Wednesday, 05.9.07 @ 13:29pm

until RUSH gets in all rap can go to hell...secondly
are we supposed to be celebrating musicians or people that sample other peoples work... some rap has transcended the lines between hip hop and rock but most of it hasnt but most regular bands that have ever played suck its a little ill stick with my first statement..

Posted by richard on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 02:54am

It's not in the style of rock and roll. If you don't consider the approach, at least think of the instruments. If you induct rappers, why not induct Bulgarian wedding bands, too? Put Philip Glass on the list, too, because surely the fact that he was from the last century means he was influenced by Rock and Roll.

Posted by Kenny on Saturday, 05.12.07 @ 23:20pm

The style of Rock and Roll is pretty varied. People who try to define Rock and Roll break it down to the structure of the music behind it: backbeats, boogie woogie blues rhythms, and the various instruments that are usually heard. Lyrics can be added or not.

Personally, I think what kills Rock and Roll is the tendency to intellectualize it (um, kinda what we're doing here by arguing about it...and I do recognize my own irony...) and subcategorize it, label it, and then declare what we like or don't like based on those labels. Rock comes from the gut and expresses powerful themes of 1. rebellion, 2. having a good time, or 3. both, if possible.

Rap qualifies with all these characteristics. It is rebellion itself.

Posted by Moni3 on Sunday, 05.13.07 @ 09:16am

Should rap be included? The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame shows the hall of fame of rock and roll. Which if this were true, would eliminate almost all of music after the time of the Rolling Stones. Then we have people like Black Sabbath getting inducted. They are not rock and roll, they are metal. However, they started metal, which still exists today. Grand Master Flash started rap. The difference between the two getting inducted is that metal is music. Rap is rhythmic speaking.

Rock and roll is music. Rap is not. Rap is crap.

Posted by Errol Scholtz on Tuesday, 05.15.07 @ 18:04pm

Aside from saying the same stupid things about rap that every boring radio junkie seems to repeat, you've bought into the myth that Black Sabbath created metal or were the first to play that style. They didn't and they weren't. Have a nice day.

Posted by William on Tuesday, 05.15.07 @ 21:29pm

"Rap is Crap" I totaly agree............And thats very catchy!!!!

Posted by lol on Wednesday, 05.16.07 @ 21:14pm

^^^People like you are the reason bands like Hinder and Nickelback sell so many records.

Posted by William on Thursday, 05.17.07 @ 00:05am

modern rock artist who rap, do not even deserve to be in the same state as rock greats such as the rolling stones or AC/DC, let alone in the same room. The Rock and Rollhall of fame is sacred and is not to be desecrated by Rap Metal artists

Posted by Kyle on Friday, 05.18.07 @ 19:10pm

So where exactly is the innovation in AC/DC? I ask that having heard every song they ever released and owning half their discography.

I think after about 1972, blues-rock wasn't "cutting edge" anymore.

Stop trying to pollute the hall with your generic '70s and '80s hard rock acts.

Posted by William on Friday, 05.18.07 @ 19:28pm

I think that rappers should be inducted. But only ones who hold high influence in the industry, like Biggie, 2pac, Dre, Snoop, Run-DMC, etc.

Posted by Logan on Friday, 05.18.07 @ 19:42pm

Don't get me wrong!!! I like a lot of AC/DC's music. But if a pioneering Hard Rock group whose songs contain mostly sleazy and violent lyrics can get in the Hall. Then surely a Pioneering Rap/Hip Hop group with mostly clean lyrics can get in The Hall.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 05.21.07 @ 14:15pm

That clean lyric group being none other than Grandmaster Flash and The Furious Five of course!!! Don't Hate!!!

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 05.21.07 @ 14:17pm

Joe-Skee..I so agree with you. There is no question that they had the innovation and influence. If rap is going into the Hall then the Grandmaster Flash should go first. Plus they were such an inspiration to my favorite group and for that alone I am grateful.

Posted by PJ on Monday, 05.21.07 @ 14:48pm

One of the criteria used in consideration of being inducted into the RRHOF is "early influences". In the question of a timeline, I take this to mean "prior influences". It's hard to nail down the exact "birthday" of R&R, but generally speaking it was probably about the time Alan Freed coined the term "rock n roll", which I believe was in the very early 50's. I could see where artists like Leadbelly, Lightnin' Hopkins, Woody Guthrie, Blind Lemon .. etc... had an influence. Rap comes along much later, and it could be said that it was R&R that influenced rap.
It's kinda like putting the cart before the horse. How can rap be a "retroactive" influence on R&R ? Did Grandmaster Flash have an "influence" on Leadbelly, Buddy Holly, The Beatles or Elvis ?

Posted by Mike on Monday, 05.21.07 @ 22:05pm

many people say that rap is as different from rock as country is from jazz but without rock then hiphop or rap woul dnever have happened as they spawned from rock. thats why it is essientially still rock and why they should be included

Posted by ryan miller on Friday, 05.25.07 @ 13:38pm

I still say just change the name of the Hall to the Rock & Popular Music Hall of Fame. That way everybody's happy. Well, I should say almost everybody. You really can't please everybody, but at least it makes more sense.

Posted by Alex C. on Friday, 05.25.07 @ 19:50pm

until the bands who actually deserve to be in the hall get inducted,the place is lacking in credability,so does it really matter who they want to put in?....the place is a joke,and will no doubt continue to be so...dino desi and billy can get into this place....

Posted by rick on Monday, 05.28.07 @ 11:46am

When considering a topic like this, common sense should be used. "Rap" and "rock" aren't the same genres, hence the different names. As much as I hate rap, I do understand the wants of rap fans, and can understand why they want a section or new Hall reserved only for rap. Sure, a lot of bands were influenced by rap, some of which I listen to, but they are in a rock group. If you can say that just because Rage Against the Machine was influenced by some rap and that those influencing "artists" should be inducted, doesn't that mean eventually the "artists" that influenced those rap artists that influenced those rock artists should be added, until we get back to the very basics of music, something such as Gregorian chants or some type of classical? There is a fine line between the two genres because, like I said earlier, they are obviously called two different things. I can tell the difference between rap and rock. They both hold common grounds to themselves, with rock usually using a guitar, bass, and drums, while rap uses programmed computer "noises" with people basically talking to the sound and the beats. While a lot of rock bands may use some of these beats or even "sing" with rap influence, it is still rock, or it wouldn't be classified as rock. I am very passionate about music; it is something I hold very dear. It is something I use to show people "me," and for people who are like me, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame can almost be considered a pilgrimage, and for rap to insist on being inside it's walls sickens me. And about Johnny Cash... I almost exclusivly consider him rockabilly, which as we can tell is a form of rock... Perhaps this is what got him into the Hall of Fame?

Posted by I dunno yet on Tuesday, 05.29.07 @ 22:02pm

NOOOOO!! let rap have a hall of fame of its own, but it is NOT rock, so it does NOT belong in the rock and roll hall of fame. Last time I checked, Julius Irving or Michael Jordan were not gonna go to the Major League Baseball hall of fame. Thus, dont allow rap in the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame.

Posted by steve on Friday, 06.1.07 @ 15:46pm

Sports analogies are overused anyway, but they absolutely do not apply to music.

Posted by William on Friday, 06.1.07 @ 19:51pm

Rap artists should be inducted for their influence on rock, but not based on their contributions to music as a whole. Miles Davis is argueably the best jazz artist of all-time, but he got inducted not because of the quality of his jazz, but because his impact on rock. This standard should apply to rap. Rap artists should be inducted if their influence on rock is so staggering that it needs to be recognized. If you want to recognize the music of great rap artists, without considering their impact on rock, build a rap hall of fame.

Posted by Ben on Tuesday, 06.5.07 @ 09:39am

" Miles inducted not because of the quality of his jazz, but because his impact on rock. This standard should apply to rap. Rap artists should be inducted if their influence on rock is so staggering that it needs to be recognized."

This is a great argument Ben, and a point of looking at the rap question that I hadn't fully thought of. Rather than force the issue that rap "belongs" under a bigger umbrella of rock, perhaps your standard makes more sense. The family of what we call "rock AND roll" should defer to being inclusive rather than exclusive where there is question, I believe (I like Earth Wind & Fire, Parliament Funkadelis, the Bee Gees, Johnny Cash in the Hall); however, it's a valid question as to what extent Rap is its own world.
The clear borders drawn between rock and the Country world is pretty well accepted - I don't see anybody decrying the absence of Dolly Parton or Shania Twain or even Loretta Lynn.

Some acts, such as Grandmaster Flash and Run DMC have arguably though, had shockwave influence on popular/pop/rock music to a level that does seem to merit an invitation.

Posted by shawn mc on Tuesday, 06.5.07 @ 15:01pm

I agree with Ben and Shawn mc. This is the way to look at the Rap question. It is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but some artists are so influential and transcend genre, and therefore if they had a discernable impact on rock artists, even if they were not primarily rock artists themselves, then put them in. Miles Davis is obviously there because of his fusion years. Rightfully so. I completely understand Johnny Cash being there (which is why Willie Nelson should also be inducted). So look at Rap in the same way. In the years to come, I could see Run DMC, NWA, Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, Tupac and Biggie (maybe Ice Cube and Ice T)...but beyond those it is a stretch (maybe I'm forgetting one or two). Rap artists who were so big they transcended the genre and were popular across the board, and then influenced rock music in some way. That would be the key.

Posted by Dezmond on Wednesday, 06.6.07 @ 08:25am

Yeah, you really hear a lot of Miles in Rock music??? I think Miles was an amazing Jazz musician, but that's where it ends. Sure he dabbled in some "fusion" (or confusion as a friend of mine used to refer to it), but I doubt he was much of an influence on rock artists. As one reviewer said:

"Needless to say, you're not gonna hear this stuff on "Classic Rock" radio stations (or most jazz stations either, for that matter.) To include Miles Davis on a list of Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductees such as ZZ Top, U2, and AC/DC is, frankly, absurd and ignorant. Have the voters even listened to this music? Or do they only wish to acknowledge their own "hipness" by including Miles among the enshrined counter-cultural elite?"

For the rest of this review, go to:

Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, 06.6.07 @ 20:34pm

I wouldn't say Miles "dabbled" in fusion, he was a leader in the subgenre and recorded exclusively in that subgenre from the late 60's through the 1970's. That's over a decade. You hear the influences of "Bitches Brew" or "Jack Johnson", especially in the music of many modern jam bands.

That quote selectively chooses its examples, doesn't it? You're right, putting Miles in a list of AC/DC and ZZ Top does look a little silly. But try putting Miles in a list with some other Hall of Famers and it makes a little more sense, like Traffic, Frank Zappa or Santana (who even covered several of Miles' fusion songs on his own records in the 70's). See some connections now? Take some other well known rock artists who are not yet in the Hall of Fame but who should be, such as Jeff Beck, and Miles' 70's work was clearly an influence.

It is that reviewer's comments that come across as "absurd and ignorant".

Posted by Dezmond on Thursday, 06.7.07 @ 07:21am

MD was a jazz musician who did play "fusion", which he actually lost a lot of respect for among his Jazz colleagues. They called him a sell out. And, as I said, some musicians refer to it jokingly as "confusion" rather than fusion. Fusion jazz died along time ago because it is not very good. And if it is such an important piece of Rock music, where is Return to Forever or Chick Corea? Why stop at Miles?

The fact is, he is not a Rock artist, and there are plenty of other great rock bands that were highly influential, and yet not inducted. I say kick out Miles (put em in the Jazz HOF or the "confusion" HOF) and put in bands like Rush, Deep Purple, Yes, Genesis, the Moody Blues, etc.

I am half joking, I do realize that he had some influence on the "jam" bands, etc. but I really just do not get the induction of rap and jazz artists, when other great rock bands are left out.....I find the hall voters to be a bunch of pretentious wannabes who want to appear elite and more knowledgable than the rest of us by picking some real obscure choices over much more obvious ones....still friends? :-)

Posted by Anonympus on Thursday, 06.7.07 @ 18:15pm

Que los del rap se hagan su propio hall of fame para eso...
no tiene nada que ver el rap con el rock

Posted by asd on Thursday, 06.7.07 @ 20:02pm

Anonymous, I agree with several of your comments, but they do not go to why Miles should not be there. Yes, his fusion years were and are controversial, especially in the jazz community. Many jazz musicians are notoriously conservative when it comes to innovations in the field (see Wynton Marsalis), and are suspicious of anything that does not have a direct line back to Louis Armstrong. That is why many jazz musicians felt betrayed when Miles got more interested in rock sounds.

I also agree that fusion was probably a musical dead end in the final analysis, and a lot of it was bad. But much of Miles work was superb and innovative, like IN A SILENT WAY, BITCHES BREW and JACK JOHNSON, to pick the cream of the crop.

I also agree that there are many great and worthy rock artists still not in the Hall. But that does not mean Miles shouldn't be there. He should, because of his influence across genres and because of his innovative work in taking rock elements and working with them in new ways, and in turn influencing many rock artists in their own work. That seems to meet much of the Rockhall's criteria.

Posted by Dezmond on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 07:47am


Posted by Anonymous on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 11:15am

WEATHER REPORT was and still is the most influential Jazz Fusion band of all time. Just Listen!!! Of course Miles Davis was an influence.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 12:00pm

Miles Davis' unique blend of Jazz and Rock was a major influence in the recording industry!!! Such Pop/Rock groups as Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, and Steely Dan where major forces in the business once upon a time that made Jazz/Pop songs and albums that sold millions!!! These artist early albums are where Davis' Jazz/Fusion style is felt.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 13:14pm

Yeah, because Chicago and Steely Dan sound just like Miles Davis. Maybe they loved to listen to Miles Davis, but there is no way you are going to tell me that Chicago or Steely Dan sounds like Miles Davis?

Plus, like I said...fusion jazz is not very good...(i.e. confusion) is essentially a dead art form at this point...sorry just the facts man....

Posted by Anon on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 14:09pm

BTW, I love Steely Dan.....

Posted by Anon on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 14:10pm

Yeah, and I am sure you listen to Miles Davis in the year 2007...right....I guess that would be just after becoming suicidal from listening to the Velvet Underground

Posted by Anon on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 14:14pm

You don't have to sound "just like" someone to be influenced by them. I honestly don't hear too much Miles influence in Steely Dan or Chicago either, but in some of the other bands I mentioned? Definitely. Traffic, Santana, Jeff Beck, Frank Zappa, etc. Again, I'm not saying that they have to have a muted trumpet playing to hear the influence, it is in the improvisational spirit that Miles comes through. To say that Miles did not influence a lot of rock artists is just plain false. He did.

Hell yeah I listen to Miles in 2007, just as I am sure I'll listen to Miles in 2030.

Posted by Dezmond on Friday, 06.8.07 @ 17:02pm

Agreed....although not sure that he influenced "a lot" of bands probably more like "some."

But, not to bring in other names, but I pointed out that a lot of bands that were influenced by Rush and named these bands...and then a person (who I will not name) on these blogs (although u can probably figure it out) said that just b/c a band listens to some musician or group when they are "bored" does not mean they were influenced by them...especially if that band does not sound like the first band.

Anyway, I guess you could make an argument either way. But, I will stay consistent and be more "intelligent" about it. Obviously, a musician or band can "influence" other artists and the music may not sound "just like it." Sometimes influences can be mote subtle or may be in a philosophy and vision. Rush has influenced bands that DO sound like them and have influenced bands in subtler ways, as has Miles.

Now, go sip your tea and crank up some Miles....

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, 06.9.07 @ 05:43am

I'm not a fan of rap but i wouldnt mind seeing Run DMC in the hall of fame.

Posted by Rob on Saturday, 06.9.07 @ 06:07am

The title song of the Steely Dan album "Aja" is a Jazz/Fusion classic!!! A style of music pioneered by Miles Davis of course.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 06.9.07 @ 08:23am

That person was not me, Anonymous. I don't like tea.

Posted by Dezmond on Saturday, 06.9.07 @ 08:29am

Aja is not true Fusion in the traditional sense....real jazz/rock fusion is Miles, or Return to Forever, Chick Corea, etc.....Aja is way too good to be considered true Fusion. Although, I agree that it does incorporate some jazz elements.

But, traditional fusion is not very tend to get the feeling that you want to vomit when listening to it....But, Aja is one of the great albums of all time....

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, 06.9.07 @ 21:01pm

Dezmond, that tea comment was obviously a joke. I forgot who, but some blogger was telling Shawn that in order to get in the "mood" for King Crimson...he would need to sit back, relax and sip some tea...and he was serious too about of course my joke was: Should that be Earl Grey or is plain old Lipton okay? :-) He too had a sense of humor and sent a link back that was an actual picture of Earl Grey tea, which did make me laugh out it is nice that someone could have a sense of humor and be able to "laugh" at himself....

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, 06.9.07 @ 21:10pm

The album HEAVY WEATHER released in 1977 by Weather Report on Columbia/Sony is essential listening for any Jazz/Fusion lover. They have many records in their discography. Plus it features one of the greatest BASS guitarist of all time. JACO PASTORIOUS!!! Dont sleep!!!

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 06.11.07 @ 15:28pm

well, as much as i dislike most rap, it does have a huge effect on society today. most of it is filled with ego, and jerks, but there are the few who mean what they say, and do a good job doing it. i think that rap should be recognized as one of the most influential genres of music in years.

Posted by Rotnac Yesac on Tuesday, 06.12.07 @ 00:12am

It is a very simple question. Rap is rap. If Rap artists are to be included change the name. It will no longer be the Rock n Roll Hall of fame.

Posted by Carol on Thursday, 06.14.07 @ 14:15pm

There are always grey areas where musical genres meet, but does rap even qualify as music?

So you ask, if we don't include rap, aren't we being closed-minded? Isn't it unfair to discriminate against the musically-challenged black man? Can't we all just get along?

Look people, Rock n' Roll has never been about getting along or what is PC and that's about the only thing it has in common with rap -- rebellious roots.

I'm proud to be member of the R&R HOF and to their credit, the nominating committee hasn't caved into pressure to include R&R fakes (such as Kiss or Poison), non-rockers (such as Pat Boone or Tommy Roe), or Disco queens (such as Gloria Gayner or Donna Summer), so why should they cave when it comes to rap? Stand your ground and don't back down; Reminds me of a Tom Petty number.

I suggest the rap crowd open a HALL OF SHAME for the marketing gimmick called rap. That way, those of us that are truly disgusted with it and annoyed by the frequency disturbances it produces in the air, won't be subject to a second of that give me a beat, break it down for me, bitch and hoe nonsense masquerading as art.

Here's my rap ...

Gold chained street kids make BIG bucks,
But faced with music, Rap still sucks.

Posted by Alphakid42 on Saturday, 06.16.07 @ 02:02am

^^^Stop trying to justify your lack of taste, kid.

Posted by William on Saturday, 06.16.07 @ 09:57am

"Ice Cube will swarm
On any mother fucker in a blue uniform
Just cause I'm from the CPT, punk police are afraid of me..A young nigga on a war path
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath
Of cops, dying in LA"

Yeah, definitely tasteful, Bill...

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, 06.17.07 @ 00:18am

Even more tasteful:

"This is the bitch who did the whole crew
She did it so much we'd make bets on who's the ho's we'd love to go through. And for the shit that she does give her a drum role because the dumb bitch licks out the asshole. And'll let you video tape her. And if you got a gang of niggaz, the bitch would let you rape her."

It is weird, because when you read that, it is almost Bob Dylan like lyrics....very deep, and meaningful....very tasteful....

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, 06.17.07 @ 00:23am

Because everyone knows that rock lyrics come from a magical place where lyrics are never objectionable and no one would ever dream of being disrespectful towards a woman.

Posted by Kit on Sunday, 06.17.07 @ 13:19pm

Anon you know you love N.W.A.!!! Stop frontin'!!!

Posted by Joe-Skee on Sunday, 06.17.07 @ 13:34pm

Good point Kit, although I knew you or William would say that - these "conversations" are predictable. However, in rap, the lyrics are far more objectionable (as reflected in the direct and overt comments regarding the raping of women and murdering of cops) and such objectionable lyrics are ubiquitous in rap. Plus, those rock bands that write lyrics like that (i.e. so over the top and overtly and blatantly offensive) are not in the hall)...

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, 06.17.07 @ 16:21pm

If you'll recall his induction speech Melle Mel of the Furious Five agrees with you. The positive messages of Grandmaster Flash and the political rhetoric of Public Enemy seem to be drowned out in today's rap.

I can't say I'm very fond of those lyrics, but it's strange to note that NWA also wrote Express Yourself, which carries an anti-drug, be-yourself positive message which is probably one of my five favorite rap tracks. It's almost like they wrote it just to prove they could.

Posted by Kit on Sunday, 06.17.07 @ 17:01pm

Definitely true Kit - I still listen on occasion to BDP -which certainly writes "intelligent" lyrics. But, given the amount of offensive crap out there, coupled with the fact that rap is mostly just "rapping", putting rap artists in the hall is questionable. Although, I could certainly see both sides of the argument, especially when it comes to "crossover" type of bands.

However, much of rap is more of the same, so picking innovative and influential artists will likely be few and far between in terms of hall induction....

Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, 06.17.07 @ 17:40pm

I think that early rap artists like Run DMC or Public Enemy do deserve to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, because they do have some influences on modern rock and roll artists(if any...). But if rap artists now like 50 cent, Ludacris or Jay-Z get into the hall of fame, then there's no sense in it at all.

Posted by PasserBy on Monday, 06.18.07 @ 10:25am

allowing rap in the RNR hall of fame is a stupid idea. The only thing its going to accomplish is getting the hall filled with artists like 50 cent. How can you honestly compare the two genres of music? all this is is the hall of fame selling out to mainstream music..whats next the backstreet boys?

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 06.21.07 @ 13:08pm

On 6/5/07 Ben said:
"Rap artists should be inducted for their influence on rock, but not based on their contributions to music as a whole. Rap artists should be inducted if their influence on rock is so staggering that it needs to be recognized."

How can we argue with this sensible measuring stick? I think it's a near perfect answer to The Rap Question. It's still susceptible to subjectivity, but it sure cuts a lot of the fat from the debate in a big way, doesn't it?
By this standard Run DMC, Public Enenmy, Grandmaster Flash, Beastie Boys are logical go aheads...
and trite garbage that does not really translate beyond the borders of RapLand like 50 Cent, Ludicrous and Fat Joe are kept outside sippin on their gin n juice and countin their money and hos.

Posted by shawn mc on Thursday, 06.21.07 @ 13:19pm

Frank Sinatra would be a much more appropriate choice for the R&R HOF than any (c)rap "artist" if you're going to include artists who are not strictly R&R. Including (c)rap and hip hop in the Hall is ludacris!

Posted by punster1941 on Friday, 06.22.07 @ 04:19am

If the board starts inducting more rap -which I'm sure they will- they need to induct more deserving rock bands first, most notably Rush, Yes, Genesis, and the like. I have no problem with the old-school rap artists in the Hall, but after other bands are in.

Posted by dbos on Friday, 06.22.07 @ 12:30pm

Influence!!!! To hell with influence. Where is the innovation. All of this stuff I'm hearing nowadays all sounds the same. I mean most music today in general. Rap, Rock, R&B, Jazz, and Country. No wonder CD sales are down. Especially Rap/Hip Hop.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Friday, 06.22.07 @ 12:52pm

"All of this stuff I'm hearing nowadays all sounds the same."

Well, that's certainly overstating it, but I will agree with you in terms of the rap and hip-hop I hear. When I can force myself to listen to this genre, 95% of the time I just hear the same trite shit; don't these guys get embarrassed aping one another? Each one is a fucking parody of the other. It's largely a parody!! It's one endless, inane parade of dick swinging posturing pimps goin on about how dey roll. The women coo and pout alongside.

What is being called "Emo" right now is also mostly a wasteland of ear jism - the same model of whiny vocals over hyperactive guitar hammering.

I know the 80's were rife with some campy shit and the 90's had its share of bad bright pastel and bike shorts hip-hop and bad grunge wannabees.... but am I just getting old, or is mainstream music at its nadir right now?
I'm not talking about lesser known stuff - there's plenty of good stuff on the periphery if you look a little deeper, but mainstream wise, between the craptacular rap menu, the Emo turds, the Nickleback wackoffs, and the unfortunate rise of the corny-ass cutsie-ass country bumper sticker mentality movement this is a musical landfill here in 2007, mainstream wise.

Posted by shawn mc on Friday, 06.22.07 @ 14:02pm

I think that early rap groups and artists should be allowed to enter the rock and roll hall of fame. Run DMC and the Beastie Boys were very influenced by rock music. Also early rap groups influenced many of todays rock artists. Now when it comes to rappers of today, I think there is a much larger difference between rock and rap and that rap is too far away from rock music. Thats my take.

Posted by Gass3268 on Friday, 06.22.07 @ 19:37pm

Absolutley not, rap may be an influence to some people but I don't even deem rap as music. You just cannot have people like that in THE rock and roll hall of fame.

Posted by Darkmagic410 on Saturday, 06.23.07 @ 09:03am

People like that? My word! You don't mean....*stage whisper* BLACK PEOPLE?

Posted by Kit on Saturday, 06.23.07 @ 15:22pm

Projection???....mb he just meant those without talent?

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, 06.23.07 @ 19:20pm

Well, it's only fair if your going to let punk, disco, soul, metal, pop, or alternative you have to let rap in. Even thought pop, metal, or punk sounds more like rock 'n' roll it's still and different genre. Rap defienitly should make the hall of fame but maybe let the rock 'n' rollers in first.

Posted by Bennny on Wednesday, 06.27.07 @ 15:00pm

the bottom line is this...

Hip Hop is a form of rock music. You may argue any which way you can. But the fact still remains. It has a backbeat, it has a certain form, most songs have an old R&B feel.

Need I say more

Posted by john on Wednesday, 06.27.07 @ 15:12pm

"Hip Hop is a form of Rock Music"

Nothing could be further from the truth. Hip Hop was originally rooted in Jamaican reggae, specically "Dub." Hip Hop was also influenced by Disco:

"Hip-hop was both rooted in disco, and a backlash against it. According to Kurtis Blow, the early days of hip-hop were characterized by divisions between fans and detractors of disco music. Either way, it is indisputable that disco had an effect on hip-hop music and culture, due to the fact that the first commercial rap hit "Rapper's Delight" by Sugarhill Gang in 1979, was flush with tenets of disco, from the funk-laden beat to the televised exploitation involving the clothes, dancing, and corny special effects, all associated with disco."

That is from Wikipedia - other influences listed included - Jazz, talking blues, Scat, African music, etc. There is no mention of Rock.

Sure, later on Hip Hop bands would incorporate rock, but that does not make it rock music. The fact is, the roots of hip hop and rap have little if anything to do with rock music. If anything, hip hop and rap were the antithesis of rock (i.e. no instruments or guitar solos, no singing (in the traditional sense, etc.).

Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, 06.28.07 @ 06:02am


Yeah Rap Should be in the hall of fame,Because

Rap is a part of rock culture like reggae blues,

sould, Remeber are music comes from a black her

itage and all black music made rock possible,

and grups like RHCP, Korn, All own to funk cliton

and meille mel, So yes the hall of fame should

honor Rap and the influenc it has had.


Posted by J-Love on Saturday, 06.30.07 @ 17:23pm

Rap is called rap for a reason-it is NOT rock & roll. If it were, it would be called rock & roll! Allowing rap artists(and I use the term "artists" very loosely)in the R&RHOF is like allowing football greats in Cooperstown. They may be athletes, but they do not belong in the baseball hall of fame-they belong in the football hall of fame. If there were an institution called "The Influential Forms of Popular Music & Culture Hall of Fame" then you can have both forms,indeed,all forms of music included. Call it popular, call it influential, call it the music of the streets, but DON'T call it ROCK & Roll!!!

Posted by MIKE on Wednesday, 07.4.07 @ 15:29pm

no it shouldnt if ur not rock than why would should u be in it. Guns n roses worked their ass off for it and cant be in hall of fame till 2012. and im ashamed that any rapper got into the hall of fame.

Posted by Dylan on Thursday, 07.5.07 @ 22:57pm

Rock and Roll, as it is widely accepted now, is more about attitude than about a musical genre. If musical genre was the only standard by which to measure acceptance, 90% of the HoF wouldn't belong - Bob Dylan? Stevie Wonder? Johnny Cash? Michael Jackson? etc. etc. Hello?

Considering then that it is Rock and Roll attitude that is evaluated, along with innovation and influence, I see absolutely no reason why SOME rap performers (the innovative and influential ones, ergo) should be overlooked.

Unless you want to strip the HoF of any credibility, that is.

Posted by Thomas on Friday, 07.13.07 @ 10:49am

Lets see here um...heres a simple solution...make a Rap hall of fame...duh...Rock music has just gotten worse over the years, we don't need to dump the toxic chemical that is rap into it now too.

Posted by Cody on Friday, 07.13.07 @ 17:04pm

Let's make a Rap Hall Of Fame and put Led Zeppelin in it. Crazy you say? Same difference as what happened at this year's RRHOF induction ceremony.

Posted by Sheridan44 on Sunday, 07.15.07 @ 17:18pm

The Beastie Boys sampled music from some Led Zeppelin song on "She's Crafty" from the LP Licensed To Ill. ???

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 07.16.07 @ 17:53pm

"When the Levee Breaks". That's the song.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 07.16.07 @ 18:16pm

And "The Ocean".

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 07.16.07 @ 18:20pm

Rap is not a type of Rock Music and is in a genre all of its own so it shouldn't be in the R&R hall of fame. if the artist(s) have some rock background then sure why not, otherwise it doesn't belong in the rock and roll hall of fame.

Posted by Stephanie on Tuesday, 07.17.07 @ 17:51pm

20 songs on an album leaves room for a lot of filler. That's why a lot of this music today is not selling!!! Especially Rap/Hip Hop.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 07.21.07 @ 09:00am

I think there for one should be a just one hall of fame. The World Music Hall of Fame. So there isnt anyone being butt hurt. Then when you have the museum set up, then you can go a split each genre up.

Posted by kris on Monday, 07.23.07 @ 01:22am

Rappers should have their own hall of fame, because if you listen to for example Black Sabbath and the Ramones they have many similarities to the original Rock'n'roll. In the case of rappers, there is none.

Posted by Øyvind on Tuesday, 07.24.07 @ 06:59am

I wouldn't say that they don't belong in it. But there are only so many rap artist and only a few good ones.

Posted by Ryan on Thursday, 07.26.07 @ 01:46am

Miles Davis doesn't sound like early rock n' roll either. Neither does Bob Marley but both are in the rock hall.

Excluding rap or saying "it should get is own hall" is no different than saying "sit in the back of the bus." When black music is played by dead non-threatening guys, it's just fine. When it's aggressive and political, it's "Get Your Own Hall."

Paint that any color you want. Sounds like plain old racism to me.

Posted by Kevin Smokler on Tuesday, 07.31.07 @ 01:26am

It has nothing to do with race Kevin so don't use that old excuse. It has to do with rock n roll, talent as a musician, and being a song writer. There are plenty of black musicians and singers in the hall and they have earned that right. You are missing the whole point of what rock n roll is and what influences helped create this wonderful music. As far as I am concerned, rap is a poor and sorry form of music, if you can call it music. Maybe rap fans should open their own hall and induct some of the actual rock stars who are still waiting to get into the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame. Imagine how many rap fans would shit themselves over that. Alot of the older rappers owe rock n roll a big thanks anyways for giving them so many samples of music to rip off. P.S. It isn't that you need to get on the back of the are riding the wrong fucking bus in the first place. Rock is rock, not rap.

Posted by METALHEAD on Friday, 08.10.07 @ 22:02pm

^^^ Please do music a favor and don't make any of it.

Posted by William on Saturday, 08.11.07 @ 01:13am

OK Willie, I won't actually make any music, I'll just become a rapper instead. As long as someone else has already recorded some music I can steal or there is a drum machine handy I am fine. I don't even have to be able to sing, I can just speak. WOW!! I will be the biggest talent since the Beatles. Look out R'N'R Hall, here I come! LOL.

Posted by METALHEAD on Saturday, 08.11.07 @ 08:07am

You've already proven that you don't possess the talent necessary to speak.

Posted by William on Saturday, 08.11.07 @ 10:08am


Hip/Hop and Rap do have a place in the Rock and Roll Hall of fame, because of the fact that hip/hop and rap have influenced many rock bands (like it or not.) It's just up to the nominators to decipher if the artist(s) are good enough to make it, and there is many hip/hop and rap artists that in fact do deserve to be inducted. There is bad rap and good the same thing goes for rock. A comment that someone made that really irritated me was that rap has sex drugs and violence, because not all rap and hip/hop artists have that in their song and many legendary rock artists have all of those things in some of their songs. Such as AD/DC- "She Shook Me All Night Long" and "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap" are clearly talking about sex and Def Leppard - "Pour Some Sugar On Me." The Ramones - "Your Gonna Kill That Girl," Eric Clapton's "Cocaine" and Nirvana's "Cocaine Girl" and "Marijuana." Even tho I like and listen to all of those artists most of the these comments are very hypocritical. Some rap and hip/hop artists such as Public Enemy, Tupac and The Beastie Boys, have empowering lyrics and are great groups. Most of the rap and hip/hop that is out right now is bad just like rock is right now but to only base your opinions on todays rapers are mental because most of them suck, and not to even mention the great rappers and hip/hop artists your not even giving those genres a fair chance, which some do deserve. Don't get me wrong a lot of artists in those two genres don't deserve to be compared to Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, or The Beatles but rappers such as Public Enemy, Tupac, and the Beastie boys do deserve that. I say yes to rap
(Rhythm and Poetry.)

Posted by Delane on Saturday, 08.11.07 @ 12:32pm

Rap is talentless garbage... so no

Posted by someghuy on Tuesday, 08.14.07 @ 10:04am

I don't know about you guys. But I'm sick of this Rap question blog!!!

Posted by Joe-Skee on Tuesday, 08.14.07 @ 14:17pm

Rap is about connecting to the world through sound and so is metal. Its all about connecting to the masses. Who cares what instruments are used?

[White people got too many issues.]

Posted by Farty ChoStanky on Friday, 08.24.07 @ 23:44pm

I think a Rap and Hip Hop Hall Of Fame is the best way . I dont say that rap dont belong in the rock and roll hall of fame but maybe a better solution or create a MUSIC HALL OF FAME and be the only Hall of Fame in music industry.

Posted by gabriel henault on Sunday, 08.26.07 @ 12:45pm

Grandmaster Flash & The Furious 5
Afrika Bambataa
Eric B. & Rakim
Run D.M.C.
Public Enemy
The Beastie Boys
Boogie Down Productions
Dr. Dre
Ice Cube
De La Soul

Thats it

Posted by Chalkie on Saturday, 09.1.07 @ 09:43am

Oh Yeah, and Kool G Rap & DJ Polo

Posted by Chalkie on Saturday, 09.1.07 @ 09:44am

rap artists should have a rap hof,not take up space in the rrhof. rap is not close to rock,period.

Posted by jp on Monday, 09.3.07 @ 13:35pm

Please, stop using that argument. Is it called the "Rock Hall of Fame"? No! It's called the Rock AND ROLL Hall of Fame. Rock is not equal to Rock and Roll! Rock and Roll is Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Buddy Holly, Bill Haley etc. The Hall of Fame could have stopped after inducting them, but instead they nominated and inducted important artists from most genres of "popular music" that came after the 50s, not only what some of you would call rock artists, but also artists from music genres related to hiphop, like funk, soul, and disco. Sly & The Family Stone, Isaac Hayes, Curtis Mayfield, Earth, Wind & Fire, Stevie Wonder & Prince are "rock and roll" enough to be inducted. Why not Public Enemy, Run DMC and LL Cool J?

Posted by Claw on Monday, 09.3.07 @ 16:13pm

"rap artists should have a rap hof,not take up space in the rrhof. rap is not close to rock,period."

do you know who the Beastie Boys are?

Posted by liam on Monday, 09.10.07 @ 13:29pm

truthfully, the so called "rock n roll hall of fame" has moved far past simply rock n roll. it has become the music hall of fame. with that being said, all artists who have some sort of serious influence in the world of music and the world in general deserve, at the very least, a chance to be enshrined in these hallowed grounds. bob marley once said (i am remembering this as best as i can) "good music is good music and that should be enough for anybody".

Posted by zack Weiss on Thursday, 09.13.07 @ 03:00am

Just induct the rappers that are influential to the bands not like todays rap artist

Posted by PRL18 on Monday, 09.17.07 @ 10:51am

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ROCK N' ROLL HALL OF FAME, not the Hip Hop hall of fame. The Rock N' Roll hall of fame is for talented Rock artists not Rap artists. If they want to put Rap Musicians in a hall of fame then create a RAP HALL OF FAME, The Rock N' Roll Hall of fame is for Rock N' Roll... I hate rap anyway,
Rap Stands For
R - Retards
A - Attempting
P - Poetry

Posted by Daniel Craine on Monday, 09.17.07 @ 17:11pm

You know, using stupid clichés doesn't make an already bad argument any better.

Posted by William on Monday, 09.17.07 @ 19:13pm

"You know, using stupid clichés doesn't make an already bad argument any better."

Really? Cos I've already burnt my copy of Paul's Boutique...

Posted by liam on Tuesday, 09.18.07 @ 10:35am

One down, the rest of the collection to go, I guess.

Do you want a big "congratulations" because you know how to waste money?

Posted by William on Tuesday, 09.18.07 @ 11:04am


In the mean time though, I could tell you that I am quite fond of some rap artists

Posted by liam on Tuesday, 09.18.07 @ 11:07am

All those rock and roll "purists" who stick to one strict definition of rock and roll, and are too ignorant to recognize hip-hop's contributions over the years shouldn't be supporting the future inductions of Red Hot Chili Peppers, Beck, or Rage Against the Machine, who have all been heavily influenced by it.

The same applies to electronica as well. Should Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, and Bjork all be overlooked because they don't fit into few people's narrow definition of rock? Of course not.

Posted by Antonio on Thursday, 09.20.07 @ 00:54am

rap is not RnR and it's taking the place of RnR artists that should be inducted
don't they have a rap hall of fame where these people belong

Posted by danny on Saturday, 09.22.07 @ 08:03am

"rap is not RnR and it's taking the place of RnR artists that should be inducted
don't they have a rap hall of fame where these people belong"

what do you know? rnr has been dead for years now

Posted by liam on Sunday, 09.23.07 @ 11:14am

"rnr has been dead for years now"-liam

100% Grade A bull.

Posted by William on Sunday, 09.23.07 @ 11:17am

real, pure blues/rnb influenced rock and roll?

Posted by liam on Sunday, 09.23.07 @ 11:20am

Well first off, you're a little late with that observation. Second, it seemed like one of those stereotypical "rock is dead" posts, mostly due to the misuse of the word "dead," which bring me to my next point: No musical style can be considered "dead" because someone somewhere is playing it. "Not relevant" would be a slightly better choice of words.

Posted by William on Sunday, 09.23.07 @ 11:40am

ok but if i'd said 'not relevant' it might have implied that i thought no artists today cite rock n roll artist as influences, which they certainly do

Posted by liam on Sunday, 09.23.07 @ 11:57am

Let rap make its own hall of fame

Posted by Ben Johnson on Wednesday, 09.26.07 @ 15:59pm

"Let rap make its own hall of fame"

ok but you're paying

Posted by liam on Thursday, 09.27.07 @ 13:17pm

They do call it the Rock Hall of Fame for a reason. Such old rap artists such as Run DMC and Grandmaster Flash should be indcted but new rappers have no influence on Rock bands that have been around for 25+ years

Posted by MaulYoda on Thursday, 09.27.07 @ 15:58pm

The truth is rock and roll music does not exist, PEROID! Everyone is whinning and complaining about Rock and Roll music and the Hall. Alan Freed made up the term and I'm sure he did not mean white guys with guitars. Rock and Roll was basically a term for music that wasn't like your grandfathers music, not like Sinatra or Glen Miller. Everyone is going nuts saying that we should seperate music because it doesn't sound like what I like. If you would separate all the music and just leave so called rock and roll music, the hall of fame would be done already. Metallica would not be in it, neither would Sabbath,AC/DC, Beach Boys, Gene Vincent, Supremes, a lot of these acts would not be in it. Why you may ask because Heavy Metal is not rock and roll it's Heavy Metal that is what it's always been called so it would be right next to Rap, Country, Jazz and you could also put it next to R&B, Progessive, Altenative, New Wave, Pop, Blues, Do Wop, Surf Music and Girl groups to name a few. You may say Heavy Metal is a different kind of rock, Why? because they use Guitars?, hell they use guitars in R&B, Blues, Jazz, Country and yes even Rap. If it weren't for Blues most of this music would not exist anyway. Come on let's face it if Kiss is not in the Hall they probably don't deserve to be, besides their music sucks anyway and they are music sell out whores more than anyone. If they focused more on the music and less on what they can ripoff from thier fans pockets they would be a better band. People liked Kiss because they wore makeup and looked different at that time that's it. It wasn't because you were turning by an AM station and came across a sound that was so fantastic you couldn't turn away. As far as rap is concerned, YES they deserve to be in the hall whether you like it or not. These guys took an idea and turned it into something that was never done before, JUST LIKE Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis and the guys of that era did. It wasn't your grandfathers music hence the term Rock and Roll. We all can sit here and complain about why MY FAVORITE band is not in but it's not rap music's fault that Rush is not in. Rush does deserve to be in and most likely they will but until then you just have to wait.

Posted by The Truth on Friday, 09.28.07 @ 14:17pm

Madonna in the R@R Hall? are you kidding? Rap in the hall? It looks like someday we will have Glenn Miller, Spyro Gyra, NWA, Britney Spears, all those American Idol idiots, Toby Keith, Hank Williams, and every politically correct nominee of ethnic background will be in the hall. Rap isn't even music. It's just talking to a beat. Just because you sell millions of records doesn't make your records music. I have no problem with musical diversity in the hall if they change the name of the hall to the Music hall of fame, or something that really reflects the true nature of the hall. Even though I still wouldn't let in Rap because it ain't music!

Posted by rock fan on Saturday, 09.29.07 @ 02:26am

If you look at how rap started out you would see that they used other people's music. How is this being creative? The original rappers and djs just grabbed somebody else's recorded music and played it on a record player. Without the musicians and bands that made these records there would be no rap. Even today's rappers just use computers and drum machines to make music. At least bands like Motorhead, Judas Priest, Slayer, Danzig, ect. write and perform their own music. Go ahead and critisize metal but it is like Beethoven compared to rap.

Posted by METALHEAD on Saturday, 09.29.07 @ 08:13am

True bands like RHCP have been influenced by rap, but they did'nt go on to become rap stars did they? The Rolling Stones were influenced by Blues and Country music, and while they are bluesy, they did not go country. So why would they be in a country music hall of fame. KISS massively influenced Garth Brooks but does that mean that KISS should be in the Country music hall of fame? Maybe they should change their name to the Music Hall of Fame.

Posted by timmyboy on Saturday, 09.29.07 @ 12:53pm

"Motorhead, Judas Priest, Slayer, Danzig, ect. write and perform their own music."

actually motorhead covered louie louie once. i also love how you've mentioned nothing but metal/hard rock in that. nice

Posted by liam on Sunday, 09.30.07 @ 13:02pm

"i also love how you've mentioned nothing but metal/hard rock in that. nice"-liam

You did notice that he specifically referred to "metal" in his post, right?

Posted by William on Sunday, 09.30.07 @ 21:09pm

Rap is not rock. Rap is bad beat accompanied by lousy poetry.

If they want a Hall let them make their own.

Posted by Dick Weed on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 02:58am

Take a long hard look at the lyrics for all the rock groups you're trying to get inducted and ask yourself if that crap would even scrape a D in a high school poetry class. It's not like Kiss ever gave Wordsworth a run for his money.

Posted by William on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 05:12am

The problem is when you let Rap crush anychance of REAL Rock and Roll legends to get into the Hall of Fame because then you have all the people voting their top 40. I say when Rap has been around for 40-50 years then yeah..lets see about inducting some.

Posted by Evermore on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 05:28am

As if voting for the top 40 strictly in rock would be any better. What's with this completely arbitrary number bull? Why 40-50? Because that's conveniently within rock's lifespan? Why not go with 80-90 years and screw 'em both?

Posted by William on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 05:43am

If this was simply a music hall of fame i would see no problem with including rap (the debate on whether or not rap is music is for another time) But damn people, Chubby Checker isn't even in here and he gave us "The Twist", the greatest rock n' roll dance of all time that is still danced to this day.

Posted by FREAKAZOID! on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 06:35am

Please go and have a Rap Hall of Fame. That would be great, that way we would never have to worry about some Moron putting that crap in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame! Everybody wants to be associated with Rock & Roll because the other crap can't stand on it's on. It's an insult to all the people who made Rock & Roll, Rock and Roll! Disco, Rap, Hip Hop, flip flop and other crap have your on hall of fame. Take the music critic leaches who have lived off of Rock and Roll and have done nothing but try destroy it or at least distort it.

It's beginning to look as if I should be the only person allowed to pick people/groups to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

Posted by StarMan on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 14:08pm

"Take the music critic leaches who have lived off of Rock and Roll and have done nothing but try destroy it or at least distort it."-StarMan

You mean like elevating bands like the Beatles and Zep to mythic status despite them being notorious for copying the ideas of their forebears and contemporaries, and then telling the gullible public that they were the first to do those things?

"It's beginning to look as if I should be the only person allowed to pick people/groups to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame"-StarMan

$10 says your list is no better.

Posted by William on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 14:49pm

who cares...

Posted by Manny on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 15:11pm

NO...and another NO. The way I see rock and roll is is having a band not, just singing or "rapping"!!! The musicianship should be celebrated not typing on a keyboard for a new steals from music completely. oh and yes I listen to music with keyboards, in all forms of rock and metal...but they have a band and much talent, not just a good voice or one hit! the thing is these people are solo and not a band, basically, they shouldn't be considered "rock and roll". Many artists are solo but they provide in depth musicianship, like vocals/guitar. I do not think someone as negative and contraversial should enter the hall of rock and roll for any reason. they are juvenile and just plain ignorant in the music, which in my opnion is the start of the "Dark Ages" I thought it'd last a few years. Now you can go to the local supermarket and see J lo and Jay Z wanna bes. sure influential, but people tend to herd like sheep when a more popular person likes it too... So heres to all the rockers out there... Peace love and screw rap!!!

Posted by Alex Carlson on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 16:25pm

Oh another thing this is heading down the "MTV"road and wayyyyyyy too fast! as soon as Mtv started playing rap, they shunned all rock practicly unless it sold an insane number of copies. I grew up with Mtv playing rock, like Nirvana pantera ect, now I HATE MTV as well as any true rocker, metalhead. Do not let this trash called "music" define what we deserve to listen to, and remember the future will know only what we let them RAP NEEDS TO DIE FOREVER!

Posted by Alex Carlson on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 16:32pm

Hell no should rap be included. So, hip hop 'music'...kick out the jams mother fuckers, or get out the kitchen (or rock hall in this case). Hip hop is bland, boring as hell crap anyway.

Posted by JLaw on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 16:39pm

Haha I am back, I just asked my 12 year old brother his opinion on the hall of fame. He said it sucks cause all the bands hes heard of on his own time aren't in there, and he shouldn't know any but deserved artists!!! If someone of this age doesn't see this Hall being right you are full of crap. He has heard Kiss, Chubby Checkers, Rush, and countless others you forget to enter at if you add rap that just means that stupid people or high numbers dictate the Hall which is wrong. It should be over the talent of getting a band together and playing through it all to continuously produce hits.. Its so hard to stay together as a band, for example Van Halen lol. So I think you are gonna trash the hall with rap like Mtv trashed its channel, so good luck on the customers to the museum! might wanna include metal detectors a butload of security and bulletproof You may see it as opinion but I grew up through it and saw it so clearly, kids growing up in great homes with great lives, carrying guns, pistols and automatics, selling drugs, pimpin ho's. So if you like the integrity of rock and what its built, go ahead and destroy it with your vile trash


Posted by Alex Carlson on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 16:42pm

rap and hip-hop suck! It will never stand the test of time. It's all a big stew of crap!

Posted by Rob on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 17:24pm

I guess you can argue philosophically that Rap has taken on a certain incantation or say transformed music in the same way Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvis, The Beatles, Country Rock, Gram Parsons, The Eagles, Janis Joplin, Wilson Pickett, Linda Ronstadt, Folk Rock, Madonna, The Supremes and Disco did in their era. People enjoy music differently after listening to it. Every type of American Popular music nowadays has a foundation in the Blue Note - African rythms and sounds. I think that is what the Hall of Fame is trying to underscore.

Unfortunately I think they attempt to DO THIS TOO MUCH and overdue it, while leaving out those that have made great contributions to MUSIC.

There is no straightforward definition of Rock n Roll, or who is worthy or being considered Rock. But if you go by foundations, it definitely African based. So, rap being African based, there lies the connection. But not to discount those that value the combination of classical and Rock Japanese music and Rock or Mariachi and Rock, ie., other than just the Blue Note sound.

You can't have one definition for something that means something different to too many people and has come through so many changes since the time of Chuck Berry. That's why i say, MOST EVERYONE THAT'S MADE A NAME FOR THEMESELVES IN ROCK MUSIC AND THEIR MUSIC REMAINS WELL REGARDED AND RESPECTED, SHOULD BE INDUCTED.

Posted by Spanish Prisoner on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 17:45pm

"I do not think someone as negative and contraversial should enter the hall of rock and roll for any reason."-Alex Carlson

This is the dumbest thing I've read all week.

Posted by William on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 19:33pm

I think rap has a place in popular music. I just don't think it's rock n roll. I also think
Disco shouldn't be included. Yes both of these genres have influenced music and therefore Rock but the influence is small. The Chili Peppers would have existed if rap hadn't come along..they may not have done some of their tunes but they would be around... As for Disco, all it taught us was that drum tracks and electronic keyboards become monotonous after a while and people move on...Even Nile Rogers did.
Now...can someone please tell me why the following bands aren't in the Hall yet:
Feat, Doobies, Chicago, Grand Funk,Three Dog Night, Jeff Beck, Guess Who, Moody Blues...
For Christ's sake, what is wrong with these people voting?

Posted by Scott on Monday, 10.1.07 @ 20:31pm

Rap groups which greatly influence the course of rock and roll should most definitely be included. Thats why Flash got in, and a very strong case can be made for Public Enemy as well, namely this one:

It is indisputable that the fusion of rap and hard rock was a major directional shift in rock history. Where did this start? The famous collaboration on Bring Tha Noise between PE and Anthrax. Thus, Public Enemy are in essence the stylistic forbearers of the RATM's and chili pepper's of the world among others.

So essentially, to sum up my position:

Public Enemy, Tupac Shakur, Dr. Dre, Gil-Scott Heron- yes

Eminem and Snoop Dogg- hell no

Posted by Colin on Wednesday, 10.3.07 @ 15:59pm

"... Tupac Shakur, Dr. Dre... - yes

Eminem and Snoop Dogg- hell no"

The only thing that could cause a person to proclaim 2pac and Dre better hall candidates than Eminem and Snoop is personal preference. Why is Pac a better candidate than Eminem, or even Snoop for that matter? I feel Heron and P.E. belong undoubtedly. The others? Not so much.

Posted by Chalkie on Wednesday, 10.3.07 @ 16:23pm

I believe that if they are going to induct artists from various genres they should change the name of the institution. I have nothing against inducting influential people to the hall of fame but call it just the hall of fame. To me LL Cool J, Run DMC and the Beastie boys deserve recognition for what they have done however it seems out of place for them to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of fame.

Posted by Jason on Thursday, 10.4.07 @ 09:29am

This is the ROCK AND ROLL hall of fame! Nothing against rap or hip hop etc, but they are not rock and roll and therefore do NOT belong! They need to start a HOF specifically for rap and hip hop along with other genres (separate HOFs of course, not bundled together).

Posted by Sixx6Sixx on Friday, 10.5.07 @ 02:03am

Yes it is THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME! The only non-rock artists that should be in are the early blues, jazz, and country artists that influenced rock. Everyone else should be barred. How could we possibly consider putting in rap artists when Deep Purple, Steve Miller, Boston, Bad Company, Cheap Trick, Peter Frampton, The Cars, Ted Nugent, Alice Cooper, Grand Funk, Guess Who, BTO, Badfinger, Doobie Brothers, Foghat, Humble Pie, JJ Cale, Jeff Beck, Jethro Tull, John Mayall, Steppenwolf, Warren Zevon, and War...ARE NOT IN?!

Posted by Walter on Saturday, 10.6.07 @ 18:30pm

I absolutely agree that only rock and roll artist should be let in. I thought was very strange several years back when James Taylor was inducted. I mean no disrespect to JT, but he is not rock and roll. Not with the long Que in front of him.

At the end of the day it is all about the corporations that sell records. They indirectly own the museum and control who gets in (Don't fool yourself). They will induct the politically correct and those that sell records for the labels (Greatest hits re-issued anyone?)

Johnny Rotten was correct when he declined the invite.....

Posted by Troy on Sunday, 10.7.07 @ 09:16am

Absolutely, deserving rap artists should be eligible for induction. The R&R Hall of Fame is not limited to rock & roll acts- as we've seen from past inductees. It's ridiculous to see anyone say, "such-and-such a person doesn't eblong in the R&R HOF because he/she/it is not a rock artist"- it's about the rock era, and the impact/influence one has had. Whether that came in the form of rock music, pop/dance music, R&B musoic, rap music, whatever the case may be.

Posted by JR on Saturday, 10.13.07 @ 17:39pm

Why not a capella groups next. Just change the name to Music Hall of Fame.

This hall is for -rock- music only. Change the Hall's name to the hall of music then if they just let anyone in. You may have gotten media attention but you don't play rock and roll you don't get in the ROCK AND ROLl HALL OF FAME. Means get a guitar/drums/bass combination that works and maybe just you might get in.

Posted by NoGuitarNoInductionNoShirtNoService on Thursday, 10.25.07 @ 13:49pm

Wait, so there has never in the history of rock been a band without a guitar? Yeah, I'm calling BS.

Posted by William on Thursday, 10.25.07 @ 13:52pm

"Means get a guitar/drums/bass combination that works and maybe just you might get in"


Posted by liam on Thursday, 10.25.07 @ 14:05pm

The "Hall of Fame" is became a joke when they inducted the likes of JONI FUCKING MITCHELL. One voting member has stated that his driving purpose is to keep KISS out of the Hall. Groups that are still listened to today, 25 to 30 years after cutting the album, are "influential" and should be inducted. So who are our "influential" candidates this year? MADONNA???!!! How does Madonna get in before Alice Cooper, KISS, Todd Rundgren and scores of others that actually did something new and different? It's all a game. I quit being interested in who's inducted when it took 7 years for Skynyrd to get in.

Posted by Dick Weed on Saturday, 10.27.07 @ 05:00am

If someone can make a compelling argument on how any rap artists (hell EVERY rap artist) have made more contributions and have influenced rock more then bands like Rush, Yes, Alice Cooper, Motorhead, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Blue Oyster Colt, Deep Purple or any frequently mentioned bands that have been overlooked by this sad excuse of a rock and roll hall of fame.

Posted by Justin on Monday, 10.29.07 @ 14:59pm

This thread is closed to new comments. Thanks to everyone who responded.