The Smiths
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Sonic Youth
The Stooges
Lou Reed

Posted by Chris on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 12:57pm

Bill Withers

Posted by Chris on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 13:14pm

The ballot will be:

The Beastie Boys
Donna Summer
Captain Beefheart
Herbie Hancock
The Troggs
The B52s
The Smiths
Janet Jackson
Danny & The Juniors

I would vote for:

The Beastie Boys
Herbie Hancock
The Troggs
The B52s
Danny & The Juniors

Posted by classicrocker on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 13:20pm

Beastie Boys

Posted by Chris on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 13:21pm

Stevie Ray Vaughan--glaring oversight from last year's first-time eligibles
Janet Jackson--token female and out of respect for Michael
Beastie Boys--got the Run in, so let's put only one on so as not to split the ballot with two.
Stooges--8th time's a charm?
Chic--another attempt to gladhand Nile
Hollies--we know Little Steven's in their corner
Joe Tex--gotta have a soul representative
Gary U.S. Bonds--somewhat a left field pick, but with Wanda in, who will the Boss try to get put in? How about a guy whose career he helped revive in the '80s?
"5" Royales--a doo-wop effort revisited

Tough to call. And if anyone from the committe reads this site, they may decide against these guys just to spite us all. lol. Or not. Anyway... last year was the first year since the charter inductions that all the inductees were first-time nominees, so look for a lot of surprises. Also, I think there's gonna be an effort to keep the Red Hot Chili Peppers off the ballot by the Stooges' contingency. If RHCP are on the ballot, it'll sink the Stooges' chances, again. Just my guess.

I just hope we don't hear more about certain nominees that "we know will be on the ballot and inducted" by a certain someone I won't mention so as not to lure him here.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 13:38pm

Kraftwerk and The Cars.... Yeah Baby !!!

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 14:58pm

Black Oak, Arkansas
Kansas
Missouri
Boston
Alabama
Ozark Mountain Daredevils
LA Guns
Chicago

Posted by Vilos Cohaagen on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 15:17pm

I saw X last night. They played with such fire, balls and spunk...........

That the hall needs X, X doesn't need the the hall to be legite.....

Posted by Art on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 17:52pm

The Hollies
The Carpenters
X
Bill Withers
Ben E. King
Big Mama Thornton
Deep Purple
Steview Ray Vaughan
The 5 Royales
Esther Phillips
Mary Wells
The Marvelettes

Posted by akeem on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 18:04pm

NOW PICK 5!!

Frank Sinatra, Harry Belafonte, Chubby Checker, Dick Dale, Paul Anka, Neil Sedaka, Ringo Starr, Gram Parsons, John Denver, Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, Tom Jones, Randy Newman, Merle Haggard, Leon Russell, Joe Cocker, Barry White, Ozzy Osbourne, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Steve Winwood, Don Henley, Sting, Lionel Richie

The Chiffons, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Laura Nyro, Dionne Warwick, Patti LaBelle, Roberta Flack, Marianne Faithful, Linda Ronstadt, Bette Midler, Carole King, Carly Simon, Cher, Tina Turner, Olivia Newton-John, Gloria Gaynor, Donna Summer, Stevie Nicks

Peter, Paul and Mary, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Peter and Gordon, Jan and Dean, Sonny and Cher, Ashford and Simpson, Loggins and Messina, Hall & Oates, The Pointer Sisters

The Kingston Trio, The Surfaris, The Hollies, Herman's Hermits, The Monkees, The Spencer Davis Group, Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominos, Chicago, Genesis, Yes, Rush, Deep Purple, King Crimson, Emerson, Jethro Tull, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Judas Priest, Alice Cooper, KISS, Thin Lizzy, Heart, Cheap Trick, The Cars, Dire Straits, The Stooges, The New York Dolls, The Moody Blues, The Doobie Brothers, Electric Light Orchestra, Blood, Sweat & Tears, Kool & The Gang, The Commodores, War, Chic, REO Speedwagon, Foreigner, Boston, Kansas, Journey, Styx, ABBA

Joy Division, New Order, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, INXS, Wham!, Tears For Fears, The Beastie Boys, The Pet Shop Boys, Cyndi Lauper, George Michael, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, Red Hot Chilli Peppers

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 19:12pm

5 ...or 5 dozen??

Posted by joker on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 20:39pm

One thing that I find curious is the fact that Steve Cropper hasn't been inducted (unless I'm totally missing something) plus he or Booker T & the M.G.s aren't even mentioned on this site. He's not only a worthy sideman, he is THE sideman...period. You would be hard-pressed to find someone whose played on and/or wrote as many hits as he has.

I wonder if all of those Stax Record hits would've happened without him...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 21:53pm

Gitarzan, look at the "Current Hall of Famers" page in the year 1992.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 22:02pm

READ????? What's this "read" thing you speak of??? There's no pictures on this page...!!!!

I stand corrected and TOTALLY sheepish...thank you!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 07.25.09 @ 23:58pm

"READ????? What's this "read" thing you speak of??? There's no pictures on this page...!!!!"--Gitarzan





There ya go.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 00:07am

In June of this year, I wrote a prediction for the 2009/2010 Rock Hall ballot, after careful consideration during May.

It can be seen at http://jpbenney.blogspot.com/2009/06/prediction-for-20092010-rock-and-roll.html.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 01:01am

Great blogpost, Julien. I see we agree on Tex, Chic, and Beasties. My guess for the doo-wop group was the "5" Royales, but the Chantels are just as good, maybe even better prediction. Though, if I got to choose this year's doo-wop group, I'd make it the Tokens.

RHCP, I'm not sure will be there. They're a pretty obvious choice, but then again, SRV seemed obvious last year, and Metallica the year before that... but Metallica had to wait until 2008/2009, and I think it'll be SRV to appear this year... which is part of why I don't have Dick Dale on for this year.

Peter Gabriel ain't too bad a guess either. As good as any. Just don't say that "we know" he'll be there or that there'll be a "special induction" for him.

Randy Newman and the Meters both seem a bit left field for me... Randy has a chance on the uber-artiste-ic singer/songwriter vibe that got Cohen in, but Newman isn't Cohen. The Meters were just completely left-field, imo, and I don't think they'll be back anytime soon.

But very good analysis. Your backups included 2 more of my 9.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 01:37am

NOW PICK 9 NOMINEES AND 5 INDUCTEES!!

Frank Sinatra, Harry Belafonte, Chubby Checker, Dick Dale, Paul Anka, Neil Sedaka, Ringo Starr, Gram Parsons, John Denver, Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, Tom Jones, Randy Newman, Merle Haggard, Leon Russell, Joe Cocker, Barry White, Ozzy Osbourne, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Steve Winwood, Don Henley, Sting, Lionel Richie

The Chiffons, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Laura Nyro, Dionne Warwick, Patti LaBelle, Roberta Flack, Marianne Faithful, Linda Ronstadt, Bette Midler, Carole King, Carly Simon, Cher, Tina Turner, Olivia Newton-John, Gloria Gaynor, Donna Summer, Stevie Nicks

Peter, Paul and Mary, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Peter and Gordon, Jan and Dean, Sonny and Cher, Ashford and Simpson, Loggins and Messina, Hall & Oates, The Pointer Sisters

The Kingston Trio, The Surfaris, The Miracles, The Hollies, Herman's Hermits, The Monkees, The Spencer Davis Group, Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominos, Chicago, Genesis, Yes, Rush, Deep Purple, King Crimson, Emerson, Jethro Tull, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Judas Priest, Alice Cooper, KISS, Thin Lizzy, Heart, Cheap Trick, The Cars, Dire Straits, The Stooges, The New York Dolls, The Moody Blues, The Doobie Brothers, Electric Light Orchestra, Blood, Sweat & Tears, Kool & The Gang, The Commodores, War, Chic, Air Supply, REO Speedwagon, Foreigner, Boston, Kansas, Journey, Styx, ABBA

Joy Division, New Order, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, INXS, Wham!, Tears For Fears, The Beastie Boys, The Pet Shop Boys, Cyndi Lauper, George Michael, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, Red Hot Chilli Peppers

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 02:46am

NOW PICK 9 NOMINEES AND 5 INDUCTEES!!

Frank Sinatra, Harry Belafonte, Chubby Checker, Dick Dale, Paul Anka, Neil Sedaka, Ringo Starr, Gram Parsons, John Denver, Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, Willie Nelson, Neil Diamond, Tom Jones, Randy Newman, Merle Haggard, Leon Russell, Joe Cocker, Barry White, Ozzy Osbourne, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, Steve Winwood, Don Henley, Sting, Lionel Richie

The Chiffons, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Laura Nyro, Dionne Warwick, Patti LaBelle, Roberta Flack, Marianne Faithful, Linda Ronstadt, Bette Midler, Carole King, Carly Simon, Cher, Tina Turner, Olivia Newton-John, Gloria Gaynor, Donna Summer, Stevie Nicks

Peter, Paul and Mary, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Peter and Gordon, Jan and Dean, Sonny and Cher, Ashford and Simpson, Loggins and Messina, Hall & Oates, The Pointer Sisters

The Kingston Trio, The Surfaris, The Miracles, The Hollies, Herman's Hermits, The Monkees, The Spencer Davis Group, Blind Faith, Derek and the Dominos, Chicago, Genesis, Yes, Rush, Deep Purple, King Crimson, Jethro Tull, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Judas Priest, Alice Cooper, KISS, Thin Lizzy, Heart, Cheap Trick, The Cars, Dire Straits, The Stooges, The New York Dolls, The Moody Blues, The Doobie Brothers, Electric Light Orchestra, Blood, Sweat & Tears, Kool & The Gang, The Commodores, War, Chic, Air Supply, REO Speedwagon, Foreigner, Boston, Kansas, Journey, Styx, ABBA

Joy Division, New Order, Bon Jovi, Def Leppard, Stevie Ray Vaughan, The Cure, Depeche Mode, Duran Duran, INXS, Wham!, Tears For Fears, The Beastie Boys, The Pet Shop Boys, Cyndi Lauper, George Michael, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, Red Hot Chilli Peppers

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 03:24am

Philip,

I immensely appreciate your response.

The reason I predict Randy Newman is, as you might see on the blog text, because I think that the Nominating Committee will want an artist loved by the punks (and Newman was) who might be better-known to those sections of the voting body who have been rejecting the Stooges. The same is true with the Meters: the Hall is always going to nominate a couple of black soul or funk bands and, to put it this way, the Meters could well have their turn this year.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 06:24am

I've always wanted a picture of a rabbit with a pancake on it's head....

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 08:09am

Considering the current climate of the Rock HoF, inducting the Meters wouldn't be such a stretch. As a matter of fact, I would've considered them before Parliament/Funkadelic (of course, I would've considered Kool & The Gang before them, too. They're not all about "Ladie's Night"...). That is, if we're talking about being an influence.

I'm saying this simply because it seems they'll induct about anybody (except for who they should) nowadays...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 08:46am

Bay City Rollers
Georgia Satellites
Australian Pink Floyd
Europe
New York Dolls

Posted by Vilos Cohaagen on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 10:59am

Julien... I think the name Iggy Pop is only slightly less known than Randy Newman, and most people can name as many Iggy Pop songs as Randy Newman songs (outside of the movie Toy Story that is). I think Newman comes off more as being on the same tier as Don McLean or Jim Croce, perhaps unfairly so.

If it's funk we're talking here, I think the committee will keep pressing for Chic... I think they regard Chic as more funk than disco. Putting the Meters and Chic on the ballot together would potentially split the ballot against them, like it did with Afrika Bambaataa and Beastie Boys on the ballot for 2008. IMHO, putting the Meters on the ballot was more about having the name "Neville" as inducted members (though they could just go the jugular and go for Aaron, who could be a good soul prospect instead of Tex with Womack in now), than about the music itself. Kind of like the Vocal Group Hall Of Fame inducting the Hoboken Four so they could call Frank Sinatra an inductee even though no one can find a 45 or any acetate of their performances.

But this is fun. Let's keep this up.

Gitarzan, I live to please. It was either that or another lolcat pic.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 18:20pm

Nominees:
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Only band from this year that I see getting nominated. Could see them getting passed over like other bands that should get nominated in the first year.
Stevie Ray Vaughn - Biggest oversight of last year. It should be corrected this year.
The Stooges - Have been nominated 5 out of the 6 past years. I don't see why not his year.
The Beastie Boys - After Run DMC last year, they seem like the next logical Hip-Hop group to get nominated.
Some Progressive Rock Band (Genesis, King Crimson, Rush or Yes)- There was an article on this site with some upper level person at the Rock Hall saying that Progressive Rock has been over looked and they are interested in correcting it. If I had to put money on one it would be Genesis. You kill three birds with one stone as you get a second Prog Band in the Rock Hall and you get Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel.
The Hollies - Little Steven has been pushing for them. It helps to have someone on the committee pushing for you.
Janet Jackson - I could see Michael's death helping her get in
Chic - Like The Stooges, this is another safe bet considering they have been nominated the last four years.

Inductions:
Red Hot Chili Peppers – I think if they get nominated they will get it.
Stevie Ray Vaughn – Same as RHCP
The Stooges – 8th time a charm!?!
The Beastie Boys – The most rock like Hip-Hop group
Janet Jackson – No offense but the class needs a woman

Posted by Gassman on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 18:31pm

Nominees:
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Only band from this year that I see getting nominated. Could see them getting passed over like other bands that should get nominated in the first year.
Stevie Ray Vaughn - Biggest oversight of last year. It should be corrected this year.
The Stooges - Have been nominated 5 out of the 6 past years. I don't see why not his year.
The Beastie Boys - After Run DMC last year, they seem like the next logical Hip-Hop group to get nominated.
Some Progressive Rock Band (Genesis, King Crimson, Rush or Yes)- There was an article on this site with some upper level person at the Rock Hall saying that Progressive Rock has been over looked and they are interested in correcting it. If I had to put money on one it would be Genesis. You kill three birds with one stone as you get a second Prog Band in the Rock Hall and you get Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel.
The Hollies - Little Steven has been pushing for them. It helps to have someone on the committee pushing for you.
Janet Jackson - I could see Michael's death helping her get in
Chic - Like The Stooges, this is another safe bet considering they have been nominated the last four years.

Inductions:
Red Hot Chili Peppers – I think if they get nominated they will get it.
Stevie Ray Vaughn – Same as RHCP
The Stooges – 8th time a charm!?!
The Beastie Boys – The most rock like Hip-Hop group
Janet Jackson – No offense but the class needs a woman

Posted by Gassman on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 18:31pm

Alice Cooper - Genesis - Yes -

Posted by Dave Newman on Sunday, 07.26.09 @ 23:50pm

Well, hello yet again.

This year, the RRHOF is celebrating their 25th (give or take) anniversary of inducting artists and non-performers. I trust that many of you have seen the advertisments for those back-to-back MSG concerts.

This got me to thinking about how the induction process might occur for the Class of 2010. Perhaps, in recognition of the 25th anniversary, the finalists in the performers category might just reach the special, one-time-only cap of 25 finalists. Even better, have there be 25 inductees in the performers category at least.

Now, I am not certain if that is going to happen. However, we do know there will be five inductees in the performers category. For those of you keeping track of my posts, I have already predicted the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2010. But, I will post then again here.

Peter Gabriel: the time of putting off Gabriel's induction has completely expired. I do realize that a great deal of you fellow posters have still become wary of my optimism and assurance of his induction. But please understand that it is going to happen for the Class of 2010. In the intervening months since we last posted, Peter Gabriel has been given a fine deal of deserving accolades: included are a nomination for Best Song in the Academy Awards, and more notably, being the receipient of the Polar Music Prize for 2009. That ceremony takes place in Sweden next month. The Polar Music Prize, for those not aware, is arguably considred to be a Nobel Prize equivalent with respect to individuals and groups in the music industry. It is also very exclusive, with one honoree in the popular field each year.

As you may know, I also would like to see a simultaneous induction not only for Peter Gabriel, but also for Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford (i have recently reconsidered Rutherford's solo work; it is quite adventurous and undervalued), and Genesis as a group. Yet, amongst equals in the Genesis tree, Peter Gabriel is the one that is assured of induction. We all know it is going to happen; thus, Peter Gabriel is, in my opinion, the shoo-in for at long last induction in the RRHOF Class of 2010.

The Eurythmics: perhaps the best new wave act to come out of Great Britain in the 1980s. Certainly the most unique and influential, considering Annie Lennox's impressive performances and Dave Stewart's innovative producing and soundscapes. I do note that quite a number of people here would rather wait until both Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart are eligible for their individual works. I would say that both Lennox and Stewart should go in together for the Class of 2010. In point of knowledge, individually they were excellent. Together, they were innovative and massively important in their fields.

Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam): one of the better singer-songwriters of his era, and certainly one of the most unique in terms of sounds and subject matter. Whatever concerns regarding Yusuf's beliefs have certainly subsided. Interestingly, his most recent albums I would consider as being amongst some of his better works. Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) is certainly well deserving of induction, most notably true in this creative renaissance over the last four or five years.

Donna Summer: the one innovative performer of her era that put dance-music, electronic soundscapes, and disco into the consciousness of a greater deal of listeners and music enthusiasts. Summer certainly had more hits and more cohesive albums than many of her contemporaries, and had always outshown her potential rivals. Donna Summer is well deserving of induction rather immediately.

Chic: These guys (Nile Rodgers, Bernard Edwards, Tony Thompson) cannot be ignored any longer. From the smooth disco and soul soundscapes of the 1970s, through the hard funk and rock crossovers of the 1980s and 1990s, up through what Rodgers currently has in mind (note: Edwards died in 1996, Thompson in 2003), Chic brought multiple layers of songcraft, production, and performance to a wide amount of listeners that had them become not committed to any one genre or style. To give an example, the song "Good Times" has a bass line from Bernard Edwards that John Deacon practically lifted when writing "Another One Bites the Dust", one of the great Queen songs. Queen, as you are aware, are already inducted into the RRHOF. Chic had just as much influence in bridging sounds and perfection as did many other acts. The wait, I am certain, is now over for Chic to be honored. This will come in the Class of 2010.

What I have given forth is just my predictions in the Performers category. With respect to Non-Performers, Early Influences, and Sidemen, those predictions will come at a later time. Nonetheless, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2010 honorees in the Performers category will be: Peter Gabriel, The Eurythmics, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam), Donna Summer, and Chic. There could be more for this most special of occasions, though I am not certain yet. And, to those still wondering, I am certain, as are all of you in some form or another, that Peter Gabriel will be the shoo-in for the Class of 2010. It cannot be delayed any longer.

Responding to your bluff, whether or not intentional,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Monday, 07.27.09 @ 06:59am

Lax26,

I thought Peter Gabriel already made it in that special ceremony they had for him and the rest of Genesis????

You need to quit with the sure bets, you obviously know nothing about the hall at all.

Posted by Brian on Monday, 07.27.09 @ 09:46am

TO LAX

IF YOU DON'T SHUT THE HELL UP I'M COMING AFTER YOU!

FOR THE LAST TIME THIS IS WHO WILL BE INDUCTED:

01. GENESIS
02. PETER GABRIEL
03. PHIL COLLINS

THAT'S IT! 3 INDUCTIONS IN THE PERFORMERS CATEGORY!

Posted by ROBERT on Monday, 07.27.09 @ 10:48am

Red Hot Chili Peppers
Sonic Youth
Joy Division

Those are who should be inducted, among others.

Posted by Calzone on Monday, 07.27.09 @ 11:01am

Unfortunately

2010 Rock Hall

Chic
Stooges (because one of their members just died)
Beastie Boys (one of their members has cancer)
Donna Summer
Red Hot Chilli Peppers (one of their members gave the induction speech for Metallica)

Posted by CCC on Monday, 07.27.09 @ 12:05pm

Ah yes, Lax is back and still sounding like a broken record. Seriously, give it up. If Peter Gabriel gets in, I think Julien Peter Benney's arguments will be closer to the truth than yours.

I still don't believe Cat Stevens is one of the better singer/songwriters of our era. Ugh.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 07.27.09 @ 17:52pm

Philip, you astound me at times.

I cannot fathom why you apparently have a rather distaste of Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam). I would sincerely hope you did not make your decisions based on his biggest hit songs from roughly "Tea for the Tillerman" up through "Buddah and the Chocolate Duck". If that is the case, you are missing out on the full totality of Yusuf's work.

To put it bluntly: Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) had started making noted recordings as far back as 1967, when he was just budding out and had more personal legitimacy than other pop artists at the time. For instance, during that mid-late 1960s period, he wrote and performed quite notable songs such as "The First Cut Is The Deepest", "Here Comes My Baby", and others that were later covered by other artists. Yusuf's versions of these songs are clearly better than the cover versions. Even his first hit single, "Matthew and Sons", was unique in that he wrote the song at age 19, and was essentially about retail.

Unlike a great deal of contemporaries who had maybe a handful of noted songs in the pop field, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) evolved in both spirituality and subject matter. Yusuf's work essentially became folk-tinged rock with an ever expanding array of electronic synthesizer work and more expressive forms of songcraft. Certainly, there were the bigger hit songs that brought him notoriety and a lifetime's supply of wealth and fans. Yet, there was always something more to note, even in the hit songs. "Father and Son", for instance, was written on Yusuf's interpretation of a young man going off to battle against militant czarists in the World War I era, and his father's insistence on setlling down to a rather comfortable and safe life.

Some of Cat Stevens' (Yusuf Islam's) more impressive songs were usually those that were not hit singles. Those works did come a bit later on, such as "Foreigner" and "Numbers", and frankly were more lyrically viable than some of the utter dreck being produced in that time: dreck that were lyrically base and very mauldlin. Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) never did that, and in his recent recordings, still does not do such a thing.

Because of his lyrical mastery and the fact that he was willing to expand his soundscapes and structures of subject matter and audio enhancements, not to mention his considerable charity work and his commitment to acheiving peace for the outside world and from within the world of his fellow travelers of the Muslim faith, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) is a clear consideration for induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It is my belief that he will be inducted in the Class of 2010.

Also, I have taken a look at Julien Peter Benney's case for Peter Gabriel to be a finalist and inductee into the RRHOF. I happen to agree with his arguments. That is one reason why I and others continue and will persist in advocating for Peter Gabriel's induction into the RRHOF. I am of the belief that the time has come for the induction to be in the Class of 2010, and that Gabriel is the shoo-in for induction for this upcoming vote.

Hoped that I convinced everyone on Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam),

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 06:40am

My predictions for 2010:

Sonic Youth
Hollies
The Cars
War
Rush

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 06:47am

Stevie Ray Vaughan needs to be inducted for the Hall to have any credibility. SRV should go in with Double Trouble, but unfortunately DT will probably be excluded. IMO SRV wasn't nominated last year because the Hall voters wanted to put Jeff Beck in before Stevie Ray, and they weren't going to nominate two "guitar gods" in one year.

Posted by Mosey A. Long on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 09:07am

Sorry Lax26,

You could write a thesis on Cat Stevens (Or what ever his name is) I still don't like his music and don't think he should be inducted.

It's that simple. It's the same thing the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominating committee does, if they don't like a band or artist they don't nominate them.

All this criteria stuff is bull, they don't even follow it themselves. John Mellencamp, influential? innovative? The Pretenders, influential? innovative? Bob Seger, influential? innovative? the list goes on and on.

The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominating committee is just a bunch of pretentious a-holes that think they are experts on music and we are a bunch of morons. The people determine what bands or artists are great, not thse idiots.

It's just a way for Jann Werner and his band of idiots to exploit music and make money and sell magazines. It's a complete joke, a really bad joke.

"Last one standing wins the fight,hear us scream and shout all night, and we crush em"
Megadeth

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 11:25am

SpaceTrucker its been awhile what's up.

For the record Bob Seger is influencial. Metallica and Thin Lizzy have covered him. Also, Bon Jovi's "Wanted Dead or Alive" was inspired by "Turn the Page".

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 12:20pm

People who SHOULD get in

Deep Purple
Emerson Lake Palmer
Meat Loaf
Steve Miller
Herman's Hermits
Chicago
The Zombies
Jethro Tull
Peter Frampton
Jim Croce
King Crimson
The Doobie Brothers
Manfred Mann
Dire Straits
ABBA
Yes
The Moody Blues
Procol Harum
Mott the Hoople
J. Geils Band
to name a few...

It disgusts me that The Beastie Boys, Janet Jackson, RHCP, Sonic Youth, and other newer acts
just making the 25 year mark would be considered
over the artists and bands listed above. It's time for the committee to wake up, and recongnize those tho actually MADE an impact in ROCK AND ROLL.

Posted by danny on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 17:25pm

It disgusts me that The Beastie Boys, Janet Jackson, RHCP, Sonic Youth, and other newer acts just making the 25 year mark would be considered over the artists and bands (listed below). - danny
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Amen ta that brother. I like most of your list, but don't leave off Neil Diamond, 3 Dog Night, or one of my pet projects, Pat Benatar. Problem is if you can only pick, say 5, which ones do you choose?

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 18:18pm

Face it danny, all those artists and bands you listed are marginal hall of famers at best. If they were really and truly great, they would be in by now.

Posted by -d.c.d- on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 18:50pm

Trucker, Tela, LAX - nice to see you gents back.

Since you were here the last time, we were overrun by hordes of Madonna fans who challenged the notion that the mighty Madge was not the rock deity we all know her to be. You needn't fear though - it was at this critical moment that I revealed myself to be the only practicing Zoroastrian on the site. Afterwards we held a blood sacrifice to the demi-god Ahura Mazda, so it got a little messy here. Check out the whole thing (including where Gitar came face to face w/an evil doppelganger version of himself) if you'd like.

So, were predicting 2010 here? Most everyone knows how I feel on the "they should go first cuse they got there first" situation, so I won't elaborate. If I have to choose from the list above, it's Steve Miller, Deep Purple, Chicago, King Crimson, & maybe the Doobies or Dire Straits.

I won't complain though, if the Beasties, SY, or the Chili's get in this year either.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 19:04pm

Well, I know for a fact the hall won't just be honoring rock and roll acts. This obviously isn't the inductee lineup I want, but this is who I think the performers will be:

The Stooges or Television- Seems like the right time for another major punk act to get in.
The Beastie Boys- I think they will eventually get in no matter what.
Red Hot Chili Peppers or Whitney Houston- For the past 3 years an act has gotten in first year eligible and these two acts seem like the stand outs.
Bill Withers- I agree with Philip that a major soul musician will get in.
Donna Summer- I don't know why, but I think she will get in next year.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 20:42pm

My opinion on recently mentioned artists:

Deep Purple - Y
Emerson Lake Palmer - Y
Meat Loaf - N
Steve Miller - N (love the music though)
Herman's Hermits - Y
Chicago - N
The Zombies - Y
Jethro Tull - Y
Peter Frampton - N
Jim Croce - N
King Crimson - Y
The Doobie Brothers - N (love the music though)
Manfred Mann - N
Dire Straits - Y
ABBA - N
Yes - Y
The Moody Blues - Y
Procol Harum - Y
Mott the Hoople - Y
J. Geils Band - N
Neil Diamond - Y
3 Dog Night - N
Pat Benatar - N
The Stooges - Y
Television - Y
Donna Summer - N
Bill Withers - N
Beastie Boys - Y
Sonic Youth - Y
Janet Jackson - N
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Y
Whitney Houston - N
Stevie Ray Vaughn - Y

Posted by Gassman on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 22:03pm

Posted by Gassman on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 22:03pm

My opinion on recently mentioned artists:

Stevie Ray Vaughn - Y

3 Dog Night - N

The Doobie Brothers - N (love the music though)

Emerson Lake Palmer - Y


hmmm

Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 22:10pm

comment4

Posted by anatole on Tuesday, 07.28.09 @ 22:16pm

What does "hmmm" mean mrxyz?

Posted by Gassman on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 00:02am

I just posted something on Coven's page and it didn't show up on the main page. What happened?

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 05:29am

What does "hmmm" mean mrxyz?

Posted by Gassman on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 00:02am
--------------------------------------------------
It means he just let one fly.


Tis' the sound of relief (lmao)!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 05:57am

Coven is banned from the main-page at the request of many of the people here. One of the Coven fanboys (St. Jimm)was a big fan of Charlie Manson and this offended many here including myself.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 07:05am

I think we need to do the same thing with the Madonna page, get it banned from the main page, it just takes up too much space and is a waste of time.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 09:31am

"I think we need to do the same thing with the Madonna page, get it banned from the main page, it just takes up too much space and is a waste of time."-Brian

Agreed.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 10:27am

Also, Roy the page is for Coven the psychedelia band not Coven the death metal band.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 12:02pm

With respect to Non-Performers, Early Influences, and Sidemen,please join our online petition to
Induct CHARLIE TUNA L.A. DJ into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame 2010 at
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/induct-charlie-tuna.html

Posted by Marie Masson on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 19:48pm

Possible nominees

Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Stooges
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Genesis
Janet Jackson
Alice Cooper
Kiss
Beastie Boys
Chic

Back ups

The Hollies
Herman's Hermit
Deep Purple
Rush
Def Leppard
Peter Gabriel
Sting
Dire Straits
Bon Jovi
Donna Summer

Posted by Kyle on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 21:36pm

Sonic Youth
Joy Division
The Stooges
Red Hot Chili Peppers

I promise you, Sonic Youth must be inducted. And The Stooges as well.

Posted by Calzone on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 22:38pm

Here is something I find perplexing:

Why the heck is Three Dog Night even considered for some merit or another for induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? They were never that good to begin with. A band that essentially did cover songs for a living does not, in my opinion, deserve induction at any point of time. Plus, their cover versions were quite bad.

Gassman, regarding The Doobie Brothers, there is some merit to your decision making. I quite possibly would not induct them as is. I would, however, consider inducting Michael McDonald for his entire body of work. I have mentioned before my opinion that The Doobie Brothers without Mcdonald is just passable: wheras with McDonald, they were quite good. I stand by my opinion on that matter.

And, let it be known, I currently stand by my selections for who will be the five inductees into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2010. Again, they are (all together now:) Peter Gabriel, The Eurythmics, Donna Summer, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam), and Chic. Also, I would be pleased if a noted disc jockey such as Charlie Tuna does get inducted in the non-performers category. Yet, I was thinking Quincy Jones; however, Charlie Tuna and other contemporaries are highly viable.

Three Dog Night?!?! Really?!?!

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 06:14am

Lax26, you're wrong about 3 Dog Night, IMO. Not about them doing covers, per se, just the other parts.

At one time, for a period of 6 months, a year, whatever, they were the biggest pop band in the world.

To me, if that doesn't give you some merit to get in the Hall, I don't know whay they would call it the 'Hall of Fame'. They had alot of 'fame'. I also think they took every cover & made them better than what the original artist did, IMO.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 06:35am

Deep Purple - Y
Emerson Lake Palmer - Y
Meat Loaf - N
Steve Miller - N (love the music though)
Herman's Hermits - Y
Chicago - N
The Zombies - Y
Jethro Tull - Y
Peter Frampton - N
Jim Croce - N
King Crimson - Y
The Doobie Brothers - N (love the music though)
Manfred Mann - N
Dire Straits - Y
ABBA - N
Yes - Y
The Moody Blues - Y
Procol Harum - Y
Mott the Hoople - Y
J. Geils Band - N
Neil Diamond - Y
3 Dog Night - N
Pat Benatar - N
The Stooges - Y
Television - Y
Donna Summer - N
Bill Withers - N
Beastie Boys - Y
Sonic Youth - Y
Janet Jackson - N
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Y
Whitney Houston - N
Stevie Ray Vaughn - Y
------------------------------------------------
how could you say that steve miller, doobie bros., 3 dog night, meat loaf, j. geils band, peter frampton, jim croce, manfred mann, shouldn't ne in BUT a rap act like the beastie boys, or a new wave groups at the 25 year mark like sonic youth, and RHCP should be in.
be logical

P.S. meat loaf would make a better inductee than madonna, patti smith, mellencamp, springsteen, U2

Posted by danny on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 06:59am

Meatloaf had TWO big albums and ONE of them (Bat Out of Hell) was good in his whole career; THAT makes him a BETTER inductee than Springsteen and U2? HOW????

Posted by WTF on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 10:03am

Before making any predictions regarding the 2009/2010 Nominations, does anyone know if the RnRHoF will be going the same route they went last year, picking one nominee per musical style/genre? If they are, that will definitely change my ideas as to who will get a shot this year.

That said, a couple quick predictions:

- The Stooges and War will most likely be back this year; but I think the Committee will skip over Chic for once and give Donna Summer a second shot.

- The Red Hot Chili Peppers are the likely choice out of the bands newly eligible to get in (over other heavily bandied names like Bon Jovi and Motley Crue). I don't mind them as a choice, but I'd much rather see Sonic Youth, Depeche Mode or even Duran Duran get in before them (not to mention The Replacements, Black Flag, The Cars, Journey, The Cure or The Smiths, among others...).

- I'm not sure I agree with all the others who've named the Beastie Boys as a sure thing (although much wishes to MCA for a speedy recovery). I feel that the Hall will use the lull in newly eligible hip-hop legends to push once more for Afrika Bambaataa instead, before the deluge of "A"-list rappers like Public Enemy and LL Cool J a year or two down the line.

- Here's to hoping that Bill Withers' induction will lead to more R&B and soul (not to mention reggae, blues and funk) in the future. Now's a good time to revisit Joe Tex, or give Barry White a much needed shot at the Hall.

Posted by Ian on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 10:28am

Do you REALLY believe all those acts are HOF-level? REO Speedwagon? Peter, Paul, and Mary? Paul Anka? Kansas???

Posted by Hey Roy on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 15:30pm

Oh good some disscussion!

Originally posted by danny
"how could you say that steve miller, doobie bros., 3 dog night, meat loaf, j. geils band, peter frampton, jim croce, manfred mann, shouldn't ne in BUT a rap act like the beastie boys, or a new wave groups at the 25 year mark like sonic youth, and RHCP should be in.
be logical

P.S. meat loaf would make a better inductee than madonna, patti smith, mellencamp, springsteen, U2"

First let me correct my opinion list:

Chicago - Y

Now I am going to respond to the bands you brought up danny:

Steve Miller: I love his music and I am proud to go to the same school that we went to (UW-Madison). I just don't see any inovation in what he did or any influence on future music, which is the most important. Also he was only a force on the music scene for 9 years, which doesn't help when you add the little inovation or influence.

Doobie Brothers: Same as Steve Miller: love the music, little inovation, little influence, and they were only a force in music for about 6.

3 Dog Night: They didn't write their own music, no inovation, influence, and only a force in music for 6 years

Meatloaf: Proably one of the toughest decisions I had to make. Bat Out of Hell was huge, but after that there was very little. There was inovation with the mixing of different influences and the oprea feel, yet I see no influence. Also he didn't write his own music. Record sales are good too, but as we know that doesn't matter for the Hall. I am going to pretend that you didn't say he would be a better then Springsteen or U2

j. giles band - They did a rock and roll hall of fame no no, they got poppy in 80's. Centerfold, need I say more.

Peter Frampton - Another tough one, his live album was huge and it changed music. But my opinion it changed it for the worse. The Recording companies saw how much money you could make in an album and thats all they cared about.

Jim Croce - I don't see the inovation, influeence, and due to his unfortunate death he wasn't around that long.

Manfred Mann - When your biggest hit is a Bruce Springsteen cover ("Blinded By The Light") your claim to being Hall of Fame worthy goes down.

Beastie Boys - First I have no problem with Hip-hop groups in the Hall of Fame. Also of all the Hip-Hop groups, they rocked the most. They were one of the first groups to make it big and they have a lot of infucene on the people that would latter mix Rap and Rock together. Also they have been a force in the music world since 1986. Also listen to Fight For Your Right or Sabotage tell me that isn't rock music.

Sonic Youth - First they are not a New Wave band, they were described as College Rock which then became Alternative Rock. Other then R.E.M. and early U2 there are no other 80's College Rock bands. Sonic Youth is a great place to start to correct this mistake. There is inovation, influence, and they are still coming out with stuff today.

Red Hot Chili Peppers - One of the bigest rock bands of the last 20 years. Mixed Funk and Hard Rock together to make their own orginial sound. Infuence is big. To me there is no debate.

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 15:33pm

Meatloaf had TWO big albums and ONE of them (Bat Out of Hell) was good in his whole career; THAT makes him a BETTER inductee than Springsteen and U2? HOW????
------------------------------------------------
He has a better voice that resonates more than Bono or Springsteen together, and also he's an innovator in theatrical rock
_______________________________________________
Manfred Mann - When your biggest hit is a Bruce Springsteen cover ("Blinded By The Light") your claim to being Hall of Fame worthy goes down.
-------------------------------------------------

they had other big hits such as:
Mighty Quinn
Fox on the Run
Do Wah Diddy
Semi Detacthed Suburban, Mr. James
5-4-3-2-1

Posted by danny on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 16:30pm

The only "Fox On The Run" I remember is by Sweet. Did Manfred Mann have a different song with the same title?

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 18:54pm

Originally posted by danny
"He has a better voice that resonates more than Bono or Springsteen together, and also he's an innovator in theatrical rock"

If we are talking theatrical rock he needs to get behind Kiss, Alice Cooper, Genesis, and even The Stooges in that department.

Originally posted by danny
"they had other big hits such as:
Mighty Quinn
Fox on the Run
Do Wah Diddy
Semi Detacthed Suburban, Mr. James
5-4-3-2-1"

1. Mighty Quinn is a Bob Dylan cover.

2. Still their BIGGEST hit is Springsteen cover! When two of your biggest hits are covers, it dosen't help your chances.

Posted by Gassman on Thursday, 07.30.09 @ 18:57pm

Robin Trower
Jack Bruce
Currently engaged in a Euro/UK mini tour. Both are deserving of induction as solo artists and or as a collaboration (duo) since they've recorded 3 studio albums together and a new Cd is due out next week "Seven Moons Live"--Rock/Blues/progressive giants with over 40 years of recordings and tours with a significant impact on musicians, and music fans. Jack Bruce was previously inducted with Cream in 1993. Robin Trower is long overdue recognition.

Posted by windowless on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 02:45am

The biggest names in Folk and Surf still need to be inducted!!

The Kingston Trio, Peter, Paul and Mary, Phil Ochs, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Laura Nyro, Dick Dale, The Surfaris, Jan and Dean

ALREADY IN:

Lead Belly, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Dion, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, The Beach Boys

Posted by QAZ on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 04:50am

The Ventures too are in!

Posted by QAZ on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 04:55am

1. Mighty Quinn is a Bob Dylan cover.

2. Still their BIGGEST hit is Springsteen cover! When two of your biggest hits are covers, it dosen't help your chances.
-------------------------------------------------
I noticed you put a Y beside Herman's Hermits. They didn't write any of their hits. I see no difference between them and Manfred Mann as to their caliber in getting into the HOF

Posted by danny on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 08:50am

Possible nominees

Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Stooges
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Genesis
Janet Jackson
Alice Cooper
Kiss
Beastie Boys
Chic

Back ups

The Hollies
Herman's Hermit
Deep Purple
Rush
Def Leppard
Peter Gabriel
Sting
Dire Straits
Bon Jovi
Donna Summer

Posted by Kyle on Wednesday, 07.29.09 @ 21:36pm

Thanks for throwing this list in Kyle, but Sting solo is likely not going to happen (nor should it)

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 09:30am

Come on - show the NY Dolls and Cheap trick a little love.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 11:18am

Isn't this the prediction page? I don't think this is the page to write about what artists we want in the hall rather what artists we think are getting in.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 11:21am

The Smiths
Beastie Boys
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
Depeche Mode
Sonic Youth
The Hollies
The Stooges

Posted by Gary on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 12:21pm

I noticed you put a Y beside Herman's Hermits. They didn't write any of their hits. I see no difference between them and Manfred Mann as to their caliber in getting into the HOF

Posted by danny
_______________________________________________

The Y on Herman's Hermits was supposed to be on Chicago and the N on Chicago was supposed to be on Herman's Hermits. My mistake!

Posted by Gassman on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 13:32pm

I feel like jumping in on this Manfred Mann thing. "Blinded by the Light" was actually by Manfred Mann's Earth Band not Manfred Mann. They were two different groups that had Manfred Mann's name for a title. "Do Wah Diddy" was a fun novelty, but nothing HoF worthy.

And for the record thier is nothing wrong about an artist not writing his/her own material. Most of Elvis Presley's work was not written by him.

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 13:44pm

Phillip,
That's the best picture I've ever seen of a rabbit with a pancake on its' head. Is he/she on the nominating commitee?

Posted by Mosey A. Long on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 13:45pm

committee, sorry...

Posted by Mosey A. Long on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 13:49pm

The only "Fox On The Run" I remember is by Sweet. Did Manfred Mann have a different song with the same title?
-------------------------------------------------
Yes they did.

Posted by danny on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 15:08pm

More artists that should get in

Joe Cocker
Fairport Convention
Electric Light Orchestra
Slade
King Crimson
Pat Benatar
The Small Faces
Bad Company
Cheap Trick
Carly Simon
Spirit
War
The Pretty Things
Foghat
Humble Pie
John Mayall
Leon Russell
Steve Winwood

bring on the opinions especially Gassman do your Y and N labeling on these artists

Posted by danny on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 16:44pm

I also forgot to include

Todd Rundgren
Genesis
Blood Sweat and Tears
T-Rex
Canned Heat

Posted by danny on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 16:59pm

Yep, Manfred Mann and even George Jones had songs called "Fox On The Run". That's really nothing unusual (could you imagine George Jones doing Sweet's version???).

Dude...the one thing that seperates Elvis and other great artists from people who just "cover" a song is Elvis totally "remade" songs in about every way possible...therefore making it his own in most cases...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 17:18pm

Here's a short list of people who I think should be inducted;

1) Deep Purple (just about every other band with a legendary guitarist is in)
2) Johnny Burnette & the Rock & Roll Trio
3) Stevie Ray Vaughan
4) Neil Sedaka (great songwriter..part of the famed "Brill Building". Shouldn't be lumped in with "teen idols" from that era)
5) Laura Nyro

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 17:26pm

I've got too many artists I think have a case to be made for induction. I'll make a list later...

Posted by Dude Man on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 18:10pm

Dude Man...I know what you mean. I'm not real good at lists, plus I need a REAL good reason to think someone should be inducted...

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 18:19pm

Bands I don't want nominated or inducted but are more than deserving to be in this farce of a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I don't want them in because at this point it would be an insult to induct them.

Rush
Grand Funk Railroad
Deep Purple
Kiss
Alice Cooper
UFO
Megadeth
Judas Priest
Iron Maiden
Uriah Heep

Anybody notice a theme here? Whether you like them or hate them these are all epic bands that have played a huge part in rock history and are disrespectfully ignored by the snobs that nominate all the worthless bands that have been nominated and inducted.

"Heaven helps those who help themselves, that's the way it goes. The frightening thoughts of whats been taught, and now it shows"
Lights Out
UFO

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 19:25pm

P.S.

I am going to see Judas Priest and Whitesnake this Tuesday August 4th and it is going to rock!

I'm sure all the pretentious idiots on the nominating committee will be at home studying for their next debacle of 2010 nominations while I will be watching true rock legends perform to another sold out crowd of Heavy Metal Maniacs!!!

"Been inclined to wander off the beaten track. That's where there's thunder and the wind shouts back"
Grinder
Judas Priest

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 19:39pm

Some interesting recommendations.

To note, if Manfred Mann were to ever get in, it should be the band Manfred Mann rather than the person Manfred Mann. That is to say, the people involved with those recordings should all be included. However, despite a fine interpretation Chris Thompson and the Earth Band gave to Springsteen's "Blinded by the Light", it clearly pales in comparison to Bruce Springsteen's own version (it is "cut loose", not "revved up", and there are more lyrics).

Danny you mentioned Joe Cocker as an artist you would like to see inducted. I disagree. Joe Cocker was not the greatest in his repretoire, nor even amongst the better ones. He essentially chewed the scenery out of any song he chose to cover. And I do not just mean "With a Little Help From My Friends." Cocker's "The Letter" is clearly inferior to that done by the Box Tops.

Speaking of which, why has not anyone considered Alex Chilton for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Either on his own, with the Box Tops, or notably alongside Chris Bell with Big Star? Clearly, Chilton was one of the purveyors of the power pop subgenre, despite having only two stateside hits with "The Letter" and "Cry Like a Baby."

Regarding Todd Rundgren: he is certainly a viable and innovative artist to be inducted. The question is, how? Does Rundgren go in on his own as a performer? Perhaps a non-performer or a sideman; he did quite a bit of that? In all fairness, should we include Utopia, along with Roger Powell and Kasim Sulton both individually and collectively? Heck, should we include The Nazz as well (though their "Hello It's Me" is not as impactful as when Todd Rundgren did it on "Something, Anything.")

Were I to decide the determination, I would probably consider inducting Todd Rundgren in the Non-Performers category. This would largely be in response to the fact that he produced just as many albums for other artists as he did his own. I do realize that it would not please everyone. Beleive you me, I would consider inducting in the Performers category Rundgren, Powell, Sulton, and Utopia simultaneously. Yet, with the general yet erroneous thought that Utopia was just a Rundgren vehicle (not quite, else why add Powell and Sulton for their own works), this might not happen. Thus, Todd Rundgren, when the time comes, will be inducted as a Non-Performer. It does not change the impact of induction, considering both Carole King and Allen Toussaint were inducted as Non-performers despite having a tremendous number of albums of their own artistry.

Now, in a related matter, I do note that a similar consideration aspect is in place concerning the Genesis tree. In one aspect, we know that those with Genesis have important individual works on their own. I refer, in my opinion, to Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Mike Rutherford from the classic line-up. With respect to Gabriel, a case could be made for him to be inducted in the Non-Performers category, considering the impact his Realworld businesses have become in world music and humanitarian purposes. I have said, quite often on this board, that I would like to see Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, Rutherford, and Genesis as a band all be inducted in the same year and induction ceremony.

I do realize, though, that of all the branches of the Genesis tree, Peter Gabriel both in his Genesis period and on his own is the most influential and lasting. As well, Gabriel's most important impact is his own recordings and performances. Thus, as I have said times before and times to come, Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2010 in the Performers category. And, yes, Gabriel is the rather noted shoo-in for induction this time out.

One other thing: Keeboard, eventually within the next couple of years, Sting will be considered for induction on his own and for his entire body of works. As I have mentioned before, I think Sting will be more pleased going in by himself for all of his works and recordings, considering his shall we say "interesting" views of The Police. Now, I will say that Sting was slightly more influential with The Police than on his own; yet, his own individual recordings are just as excellent.

One final thing: just because Three Dog Night had a couple number one hits for about a year or more and had massive popularity does not mean the Hall of Fame awaits them. If that were the case, the RRHOF would have to consider Tommy Roe, or Christopher Cross, or Stars on 45, or Billy Paul, or Gordon Lightfoot, or Bonnie Tyler, or the Escape Club, or Phil Collins (on his own!), or any of a number of acts that went to number one and clearly are inferior to a lot of other acts that never did.

"Wild Wild West" is a ripoff of "Pump It Up",

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 19:58pm

The biggest names in Folk and Surf still need to be inducted!!

The Kingston Trio, Peter, Paul and Mary, Phil Ochs, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Laura Nyro, Dick Dale, The Surfaris, Jan and Dean

ALREADY IN:

Lead Belly, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Dion, Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, The Beach Boys

Posted by QAZ on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 04:50am


I agree I would add Kingston Trio..
Surfs UP SURFARIS ROCK

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 22:27pm

LAX

No, I'm not persuaded by your thesis. I appreciate your efforts though. But "Peace Train" is really about the only song of his I can stand. Thanks to a psycho-obsessed listener, I now hate "Wild World", his version of "Another Saturday Night" is a travesty, "Morning Has Broken" has always bored me, outside of piano exercise work. If I want rock with a spiritual side to it, I'll listen to George Harrison's solo work. Heck, I'd rather listen to Michael W. Smith than Cat Stevens. Sorry, but Cat Stevens may not even be in my Top Ten singer/songwriters of the 70's who aren't inducted but ought to be.

And I have to call you out on your borderline hypocrisy. You say no to Todd Rundgren in the Performers category but yes to Banks and Hackett? Todd Rundgren, admittedly not my favorite, had a much more prodigious output, as well as much more influential, than Banks or Hackett as solo artists. Rundgren belongs in more than Cat Stevens does. You are letting your your semi-erotic love affair with all things Gabriel and Genesis get in the way of what better judgment you had at one point. Rundgren may have done a lot of producing and session work, but so did a lot of other artists who are in as Performers.

And Three Dog Night definitely belongs in. They could make rock'n'roll with many different kinds of feeling to it. From soul to borderline novelty to social consciousness, environmentalism, and just plain rocking out. Three Dog Night is a great band that really should get some consideration.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 07.31.09 @ 23:00pm

Philip, after considering your ideas regarding Todd Rundgren, I would say you are correct.

What I was pointing out was that an induction in any one category is an induction in full either way. Yet, Rundgren does most deserve being inducted as a performer. You are correct, and I in a rare occurance was not.

By the way, I do not have a semi-love affair with my advocacy for Peter Gabriel's induction in eventuality to the RRHOF, including my thoughts on the Genesis tree. My opinion is that of all the noted great artists eligible yet not inducted as of now, Peter Gabriel is the one artist that, in my opinion, is a clear candidate for induction. AQt some point, the RRHOF are going to need to acknowledge that, with respect to the unique artistry involved and, yes, the impact of the art rock movement Gabriel, amongst others, brought forth. It is my inference that he will be inducted in the Class of 2010. Yet, if I am incorrect, then I am incorrect. I do not think I will be this time though.

Where we disagree is on the following: Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) is well deserving of induction, and I am certain he will be inducted in the Class of 2010. As I have mentioned before, Yusuf's body of works included more interesting materials over the years that differed from his bigger hits. Also, by comparison, Three Dog Night still is not worthy of induction. They were a product of their times, and clearly reflected a rather bland rock and pop asthetic.

Another thing to note: notice I have not included Phil Collins as worthy of induction into the RRHOF on his own accord. That we can agree on, I suppose. Collins attempted to be every artist that ever influenced him, and frankly underacheived in the results. As well, Collins' solo work got blander and blander as the albums and years went by. So you can see, I do not include everything Genesis-related for induction. And with good cause.

Hope that cleared things up,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 05:13am

Now here's my opinion of who's most likely going to get into the HOF in 2010

Peter Gabriel or Genesis
Cat Stevens
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Iggy and the Stooges
The Hollies

Posted by danny on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 07:54am

Joe Cocker - N
Fairport Convention - N
Electric Light Orchestra Y
Slade - Y
King Crimson - Y
Pat Benatar - Y
The Small Faces - N
Bad Company - N
Cheap Trick - Y
Carly Simon - N
Spirit - N
War - Y
The Pretty Things - N
Foghat - N
Humble Pie - N
John Mayall - Y (Would Eric Clapton be a part of this, lol)
Leon Russell - N
Steve Winwood - N (Already in with Traffic, would say Y to Blind Faith)
Todd Rundgren - Y (Either as a performer or as a non-performer)
Genesis - Y
Blood Sweat and Tears - Y
T-Rex - Y
Canned Heat - N
Rush - Y
Grand Funk Railroad - N
Deep Purple - Y
Kiss - Y
Alice Cooper - Y
UFO - N
Megadeth - N
Judas Priest - Y
Iron Maiden - Y
Uriah Heep - Y

IMO the 5 biggest snubs are:
1. Kiss
2. The Stooges
3. Alice Cooper
4. Deep Purple
5. Chicago

Also the Hall needs more Progressive Rock (Only Pink Floyd) and Heavy Metal bands (Only Black Sabbath & Metallica).

Posted by Gassman on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 11:08am

Well technically there are 5 heavy metal bands in the hall:

Led Zeppelin
AC/DC
Van Halen
Black Sabbath
Metallica

Still there are more punk acts than prog and metal acts combined in the hall.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 11:33am

And for the record I believe the Small Faces deserve it. They were one of the precursors of the Britpop movement, were influencial to bands already in the hall(The Sex Pistols, Led Zeppelin, Clem Burke of Blondie thought of Steve Marriott as the greatest rock singer,and Elvis Costello said a song of his called "Rocking Horse Road" was influenced by The Small Faces as well), and The Jam were also heavily influenced by them.

As for Three Dog Night, I'm a fan of there work and I think they were a great, fun group, but HoF worthy? I'm not sure. Innovation, nothing really other than putting the vocal group back into rock 'n' roll(even though I try to think of them as a band because thier backing musicians had a consistent lineup), but it had been done before. And influence, almost nothing. I can't find any major artists that were influenced by them. If they get in, I'm fine with that, but if they don't no big deal because they don't really have any I&I.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 12:40pm

Don't forget Aerosmith..

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 13:38pm

I'm just not getting the whole Genesis/Peter Gabriel thing. Genesis is a pretty good group, but let's look at innovation and influence (if you can find any)...what innovation did they bring to the table, and who has said they were influenced by them (I didn't say who "likes" them).

Now, Peter Gabriel...induct him for doing what? The same questions can be posed for him! I'm thinkinf Three Dog Night will probably get in before these particular artists.

If you're a fan...fine! That's a good thing, but PLEASE give it a little more thought and convey them as to why they should be inducted...and do try to make sense!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 14:08pm

Aerosmith is NOT a heavy metal band.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 14:25pm

Why do I have a feeling that this year is going to be a crazy year for nominees. Too be honest I like the ballots mentioned here than what I feel will be a big letdown by the Hall of names everyone wants to see, that will get snubbed again.
I'm going with 9 because that's what's been nominated the last 3 years. I also like the odd name like a Bill Withers. Every year the Hall nominated someone no one would think of nominating: Sir Douglas, Conway Twitty, Miles Davis, Bobby Womack, Ronettes. And the surprise is that sometimes they get in. Also the name "5" Royales which has popped up in this forum. They were nominated once way back in 2001, but maybe someone on the committee remembers.
Here's 9 for me:
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Stooges
Bill Withers
Gram Parsons
Alice Cooper
Donna Summer
Hollies
"5" Royales
Beastie Boys

Runner ups: Chic, Kiss, Smiths, Randy Newman

Posted by Tom Lane on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 16:41pm

Lax,

I acknowledge and appreciate your reconsidering the case for Todd Rundgren. By the same token, I admit I may have been a little harsh in my choice of words for you. But please consider what I say in that context: last year you spoke with absolute certainty that it would be as you picked. When pressed for a reason why you felt you could be so sure, particularly to the "special induction" for the Genesis tree, you proudly boasted that you'd been writing letters to the committee people of the absolute necessity of it, and therefore, were certain it would happen. You remember that loud noise you heard after you said that? That was the sound of the regular posters on this site smacking their foreheads collectively in utter dismay. THAT was your ace in the hole? Seriously? If you had hung out around here a bit more regularly, or at least lurked while reading comments, you'd have noticed that some here took to writing Nominating Committee member Dave Marsh to press upon him the sensibility of trying to get Deep Purple inducted. Marsh wrote back saying bluntly, albeit rather politely, that he disagreed and would not support their plea. You see, the powers that be don't have to heed us and our petitions, and more often than not, they don't at all.

Also, last year, you refused to listen to any critique of your picks--serious, well-thought, eloquently phrased, or just irascible. You continued on with an air that was, well, air-headed. You came off as having your head in the clouds with absolute cocksurety, and it turned us off to you and anything you had to say. And you're back to beating that horse again this year, almost verbatim from last year. If it's not asking too much, can you please stop even discussing "special inductions" or even the solo inductions of Banks or Hackett? It's really not realistic at all. A poor man's pipe dream, at best. The only parts of the Genesis tree that have a real chance are the trunk band Genesis itself, and the major branches of solo Gabriel and solo Collins.

I admire your tenacity about the necessity of getting Gabriel in. I can't fault you for that, other than saying it's an "absolute certainty" or words to that effect. I thought it was absolutely certain for Stevie Ray Vaughan to get in last year, and he didn't make the ballot. And while he isn't the act I'd most like to see get in, he's the one on that list that has the best chance of making it. Just as Gitarzan focuses on the "necessity" of getting Deep Purple in, or anyone else for any other band, so it is for you supporting Peter Gabriel, but it is not a surefire thing.

Getting back to the productive discussion on Cat Stevens... I don't see how you can say Three Dog Night is a product of their times and Cat Stevens isn't. "Peace Train" was an anti-war anthem of sorts, and "Joy To The World" was interpreted that way as well, though to a lesser extent; and both THOSE songs aren't even remembered as the top anti-war anthems of the time, taking back seats to "War" by Edwin Starr, Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On", the various peace songs by John Lennon, etc. Both covered songs by soul legends... one doing "Another Saturday Night" while the other did "Try A Little Tenderness". Three Dog Night also did songs about environmentalism and race relations, both of which are still issues to this day. The only thing that could possibly make Cat/Yusuf timeless and 3DN not is the fact that he's still recording new albums and they're now doing the oldies circuit thing. But that's really to be expected, when you consider that he who travels farthest usually (though not always) travels alone. I think, though, that this is refuted by the fact that the music of the group is kept more timeless because the fans and stations are keeping their songs more alive than his songs.

I appreciate your opinions, and really, I do welcome more discussion, so long as it's not discussed in terms of closed-minded absolutes. I am slightly jaded against Cat due to dealings with a psychotically obsessed listener requesting "Wild World" every week for the past year and a half, and is a rude and creepy call-in listener on top of that, but imho, the following singer/songwriters of the late 60's/early 70's are more deserving that Cat Stevens:

1. Jim Croce
2. Nilsson
3. Judy Collins
4. Todd Rundgren
5. Carly Simon
6. Don McLean
7. Boz Scaggs

But the discussion itself has been interesting thus far.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 17:13pm

Philip...I don't know that it's a "necessity" for Deep Purple to get inducted...I'll just shoot off my pinky toe if they don't....!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 17:19pm

You paying attention Marsh? Gitarzan's got a hostage now! It's his pinky toe! It's like that kitten poster: every time you snub Deep Purple, Gitarzan loses a toe. Please, think of Gitarzan's toes.

LMAO!

Tom, it's hard to predict a left-field pick simply because they ARE left-field picks. Last year, I thought Willie might be the one. This year, I'm seeing where the Boss may strike next, and I think it might be Gary U.S. Bonds. My pick of the "5" Royales isn't the left-field pick for me, it's the doo-wop/Oldies pick.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 17:38pm

Joe Cocker - N
Fairport Convention - N
Electric Light Orchestra Y
Slade - Y
King Crimson - Y
Pat Benatar - Y
The Small Faces - N
Bad Company - N
Cheap Trick - Y
Carly Simon - N
Spirit - N
War - Y
The Pretty Things - N
Foghat - N
Humble Pie - N
John Mayall - Y (Would Eric Clapton be a part of this, lol)
Leon Russell - N
Steve Winwood - N (Already in with Traffic, would say Y to Blind Faith)
Todd Rundgren - Y (Either as a performer or as a non-performer)
Genesis - Y
Blood Sweat and Tears - Y
T-Rex - Y
Canned Heat - N
Rush - Y
Grand Funk Railroad - N
Deep Purple - Y
Kiss - Y
Alice Cooper - Y
UFO - N
Megadeth - N
Judas Priest - Y
Iron Maiden - Y
Uriah Heep - Y

------------------------------------------------

Yo say No to the Small Faces. You're kidding me. Listen to Itchycoo Park, Tin Soldier, Afterglow of Your Love, and tell me they don't belong. The same goes to Bad Company. If Paul Rodgers should be inducted, it should be in that band. Can't Get Enough, Shooting Star, Runnin With the Pack. They're friggin classics. Also The Pretty Things. They had the first rock opera with S.F. Sorrow, and they were an integral part in the British Invasion. I think you should reconsider some of your opinions.

Posted by danny on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 18:05pm

Danny, we went at it about the Small Faces sometime back. As a trend, it comes down to which side of the Atlantic you're on. If you're American, you're not all that sold on them (and probably don't think too highly of Itchycoo Park), whereas if you're from England, it's a big yes.

As for that list, the only thing I'll add is Leon Russell, yes as a Side-Man, but probably not as a Performer.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 18:31pm

I know we already had the big Small Faces debate, but once again they have influence on bands that have had big impact here in America. The criteria DOESN'T say you hits, platinum albums, and things to that nature. It says you need influence or innovation. If anything they are 10 times more worthy than Three Dog Night.

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 19:29pm

It's debatable. The bands that you've mentioned who've had a big impact in America... the only two I remember are Blur and Oasis, the latter of whom were more Beatles influenced than Small Faces influenced, at least what I hear when I hear their music. The Jam really didn't have that much impact here in the states. And I don't remember

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 20:21pm

Ack, hit Submit before I finished the message... I don't remember who else you mentioned that's had a big impact here in the states.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 20:23pm

I think The Small Faces would have been remembered on a better note here in America if they had the T. Rex factor. By that I mean T. Rex's one crossover on our side of the pond("Get it On") was perfect representation of thier sound. "Itchyoo Park" is poor, childish representation of the band.

Once again they were an influence on The Sex Pistols, Robert Plant, The Black Crowes, Quiet Riot, The Jam, Blur, and Oasis to throw a few names out. And The Jam are a very important punk band and critically beloved for that matter. The Sex Pistols and Robert Plant are also already in the hall and there is no denying thier impact on American bands(even though I greatly dislike the Sex Pistols music I can't deny thier impact). And as far of innovation they are considered one of the pioneers of the Britpop movement and whether you enjoy the music of that time period or not you can't deny it was here and it was a very important moment for alternative rock music.

I'm a Three Dog Night fan, but they really don't have any innovation and Philip have they influenced any major acts? Not that I know of.

I don't think either of us are changing our minds on this subject matter. We already had this debate anyway and it would be kind of be pointless to have it all over again, so we might as well end it now. Fair Enough?

Posted by Dude Man on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 21:28pm

In previous discussions, you didn't mention too many of those names. However, Quiet Riot didn't have too much staying power, nor have the Black Crowes, and neither have had too much influence.

I don't really consider The Jam to be that important of a punk band. They were nowhere near the tier of the Clash, the Ramones, the Sex Pistols, or even the Stooges. I'd place them on maybe the same tier as the New York Dolls. And even then, it's a stretch, because the Jam are considered a "mod revival" band more than they are punk, on top of the fact they came pretty much after all those other bands I've mentioned.

I don't know that I'd call "Britpop" as important a factor of the alternative music scene as I would grunge, but I'm also not a fan of alternative and care less for modern indie.

Three Dog Night, I would say weren't the most innovative band, but they were one of the few bands that were actually branching out to different styles at the time. Not many bands during that time left a particular comfort zone unless they were prog, and even then that was a comfort zone of its own in a strange way. They did soul, ballads, heartbreak torch songs, moodier rock, celebratory rock, social issues... they were a band that didn't limit themselves to a particular sound, and that's pretty important, imo.

I wasn't trying to start the argument again... I was just trying to point out to danny that we'd already had this discussion, and that he should check out the page for the Small Faces. I think we can once again agree to disagree.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 22:51pm

"and that's pretty important, imo."

Just an addendum as to why I think that's important... to not limit oneself is an excellent display of both talent and artistry. I know the HoF people really like to go for the artistic side of the coin, and I think the fact that Three Dog Night could do all that AND be commercially successful with it is a statement of proving rock'n'roll both as an artform and as an asset of entertainment.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 22:55pm

I want the chili peppers in,

Warlock
Stevie ray
Nick cave
Spinal tap
steve Vai

Posted by Martin on Saturday, 08.1.09 @ 23:07pm

I can't beleive all of you are knocking off Three Dog Night as potential contenders. Danny Hutton, Cory Wells, and Chuck Negron had some of the best voices in rock and roll. Even though they didn't write their music, their versions of other people's songs have gone top 20 many times, and have not been forgotten. By the way they have a hall of fame for songwriters, but in rock and roll it's the impact you make on the audience.
Think about that

Posted by danny on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 09:11am

I somewhat agree with you Danny, but if we go by the stated I & I criteria that the Hall set forth, then 3 Dog Night Night does not warrant induction. However, there is a 3rd criteria which is called "Perpetuation". Here one might make a case for 3 Dog, but they may have to wait quite a bit longer as they have yet to induct many bands which meet all three levels of criteria for induction.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 09:22am

The Black Crowes sold about 19 million albums, so they do have staying power. Yes, Quiet Riot are only remembered for one album to mainstream America, but did two important things for heavy metal:
1. They basically started the whole hair metal genre.
2. They were the first hair band to have a #1 album.

Danny I love Three Dog Night and I have no problem about artists not writing thier own songs, but I can't find any I&I with them. If they get inducted, great, if they don't, doesn't bother me.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 10:21am

When it comes to hair metal, I think of KISS and Van Halen as the progenitors of hair metal more than Quiet Riot.

But also, I think the HoF will consider hair metal a stain on the world, and will never acknowledge the accomplishments of too many of those bands... Bon Jovi and Motley Crue maybe, but that's gonna be about it.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 10:39am

Kiss was shock rock/heavy metal and the same thing with Alice Cooper. They were not hair metal, but they were influencial. Quiet Riot's first album came out before Van Halen(sadly it was only released in Japan).

Bon Jovi really isn't a hair metal band. They were an arena rock band with Bruce Springsteen influences, that just looked like a hair band. They had more in common with the Journey, Styx, and Foreinger type groups in my opinion. Several bands also looked like hair metal groups, but really were not hair metal groups(like Hanoi Rocks for example had more in common with the New York Dolls and Enuff Z Nuff were really a power pop band, not hair metal).

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 10:49am

Respectfully, I gotta disagree. There's a pretty thin line that I think is being drawn between arena rock and hair metal. Bon Jovi is definitely hair metal. They're identified strongly with the hair metal genre thanks to their hits like "Livin' On A Prayer," "Bad Medicine," "You Give Love A Bad Name," etc. Not to mention the live performance values of hair metal rely on the big venues to play, especially for the pyrotechnics.

I would agree that KISS weren't hair metal, at least not at first. I think by the 80s, they had evolved into it. "Lick It Up", "Heaven's On Fire," and "Let's Put The X Back In Sex" are songs I would call hair metal songs.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 10:57am

Hair Metal, Huh?

Beginnings as a SOUND:

Boston (76) - Do not forget the impact of those harmonies on 80's metal, + the "sci-fi" guitar (as the liner notes would have it)

VH1 (78) - The guitars

Def Lep (81) - High & Dry gave you the previous melded together

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
AS A STYLE:

VH1 - See above; also influential as look

Motley Crue (81) - Too Fast for Love was all about the style; then they put it together when they did the "Shout" in 83.

I'll also give you Riot & Sister in 83-84, though by that time Ratt and Jovi we're already coming up in the rearview, and PYROMANIA had locked down the future.


Just an IMO there...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 11:16am

I'll have to admit, early on Eddie & David Lee had some pretty whacked-out, teased and sprayed hair!!! If you told them they started "hair metal" they'd probably send a ninja death squad after you...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 11:20am

Well, Git, that's a case of what we call "Truth Hurts".

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 11:23am

A long time ago, I think the "truth hurts" would have meant something, but I think 80's metal has come out looking slightly better over time. There's still some ridiculous things attached to it, but overall a few positives have shown up.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 11:34am

I have no problem with hair metal. I enjoy it, but Git was implying the Eddie and Dave wouldn't like being credited with being major influences on the movement... to which I say, "Truth hurts".

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 12:21pm

First - the term Hair Metal and the bands associated with the genre have changed somewhat over the years. The two main componenets are sound and look.

The look cannot just be defined by spandex. But if we use that as a starting point, the initial birth of this goes all the way back to the Stones and then ratcheted up a notch by Aerosmoth, KISS, Queen and the NY Dolls. Coincidentally, these 4 bands arrive on the scene between 1972 - 1974. Lets call them the post Zeppelin generation even though Zep was hitting their musical peak at the same time. These 4 bands were the big new thing as I hit my teen years. Johnny Thunders seems to be the main influence for the actual look, but let's not forget the look of Mick Ronson during the Spiders of Mars hey day which also took place in that same 3 year period. But there is more to it.

In the late 70's, early 80's, a lot of the New Wave, New Romantic Bands such as Duran Duran, Adam and the Ants, Flock of Seagulls had started shopping in the local store for heavy duty hairspray. So the look of fashioned hair was spread throughout the different genres of RnR in the early 80's. Add in a touch of Billy Idol and Stephen Stevens and you have the makings of a new genre. Motley Crue took the look of Thunders, the angst of Punk and started their thing.

The sound - its roots are still heavily influenced by the basic "Blues" chord progressions. Clearly Van Halen has a big hand in all of this as does the release of "High and Dry" by Def Leppard. Originally part of the NWoBHM, Def Leppard seemed to have had an understanding of Pop which Priest, Iron Maiden, and Saxon did not. Big guitars, vocal harmonies and a strong back beat.

The song - "Bringin on the Heartbreak" was getting airplay on all the major FM stations, at least here in NYC. It was different from what we had been hearing in the last 5 years. It was nothing new as we had heard it before from Zep, Aerosmith, but that was a full generation before them. I think you can really start with this song. But you also have to add Cheap Trick "Surrender" into the equation as well as a few tracks by Journey which came a little earlier than Pyro.

The final kickers - the success of Photograph and Pyromania, Quiet Riot and Cum on Feel the Noise and you have the final piece of the blueprint for what was to become the next 10 years in music.

Where does this all bring us - nowhere. Hair Metal was a term coined by as an easy way for the same critics who hated Zep, NY Dolls, Aerosmith, Queen to pounce on a bunch of new bands who they hated and belittled a music that has been loved since the day it was first heard.

The truth - Hair Metal, Pop Metal, Hard Rock or whatever you want to call it is sexually charged music which is meant to highlight what should have been the most important word for those between 15 and 25. And that word is fun. And at that age; fun meant hot chicks and partying with your friends. As for me, I turned 20 in 1978 and was tired of being angry at the world. I still loved listening to the Clash and Ramones and enjoyed the CBGB's scene, but Van Halen reminded me why it was neccassary to not always be pissed at the world. So my end is Van Halen - they were the one band who combined elements of so much that came before them and started this thing that I will always love. And they were immediately followed by Def Lep and the Crue. In my mind, everything that came after were just following what these three bands started. One is in the Hall and I fully expect D.L. and the Crue to one day join them. At least I would hope so.

Wow - did I pontificate enough on this one? Sorry gang - you can have at me now.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 12:30pm

Dameon... awesome.

If I were to pontificate further, the look of hair metal can be traced back to.... the Beatles! At least in part... that part being the long hair. Long hair that parents hated. The look was also part of the hippie movement which embraced the naturalism of it, and whose philosophies were anti-establishment. The two philosophies merged fully with acts like Alice Cooper, KISS, and Aerosmith... the fun rock'n'roll that parents hated and the sentiment of being against the establishment, and you get "School's Out", among other anthems. Combined with the stage antics and extreme make-up used by Cooper and KISS, and filter out the grounds active anti-establismentarianism, keeping the passive parts of it ("We rebel against the man by being ourselves and having fun, and that's rebelling because 'The Man' hates it when we do that"), and you've got a recipe for hair metal.

So where does all that get us? Nowhere. Dameon said it all better than I did, and in the end, it kills off another 5-10 minutes of a boring work shift that sees the Tigers getting slaughtered by the Indians. 8-0 right now, and it's not over yet.

No seriously Dameon, I loved that post, and I read every word of it.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 12:57pm

Nice posts Philip and Dameon. I also want to say that I agree with what Philip said earlier regarding Three Dog Night, which is my reasoning as to why they should be in the hall of fame.

Posted by Steve Z on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 13:01pm

Don't feel bad Philip. My Yanks have lost three straight to the White Sox and allows the BoSox to breathe a little easier.

Agreed on the Beatles aspect. But that is another conversation all to itself. I don't think there is a genre in post 1963 RnR that the Beatles did not influence.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 14:27pm

MC5
Yes
Alice Cooper
Os Mutantes
Boston

Posted by Thunders on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 17:47pm

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/listoftheday/32122

I didn't know where to put this, so I figured I'd put it here. I found this list of "The 25 Best Hair Metal Bands". I think this kind of proves my point that a lot of bands have been miscasted as hair metal bands when they were not. There are some non-metal acts and some metal acts that are not hair metal on this list.

Posted by Dude Man on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 18:54pm

Okay, on to this Hair Metal matter.

With the success of the revivalist musical Rock of Ages fresh in everyone's mind, I suppose tha what was once a ridiculed genre is now considered somewhat legitimate for greater importance. I, myself, consider Def Leppard to be one of the more dynamic and influential in their field, and hope to expect their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to come forth in the future. I have, though, already stated my inferences on who will be inducted in the Class of 2010.

One band somewhat in that field (more grandiose power pop) that I think has been overlooked for consideration has been Styx. Yes, I know: you may be thinking why should Styx be worthy of induction? Well, to be honest, it is not so much Styx in its totality; more like, it is the Tommy Shaw eras of Styx that should be considered.

You see, Styx started out with five different albums from 1971-1975 that were completely art rock tinged. It was okay, but the individual albums left much to be desired. The only songs that survived from that era are Dennis DeYoung's first great love song "Lady" and a great deal of the "Equinox" album. Yet, after that album was made but before the tour started, John Curlewski (spelling?) left the band. After DDY and James "JY" Young saw Shaw performing with a folk-soul band of note in Alabama, and after Shaw auditioned singing the high tenor parts on "Lady", Shaw came on board.

I was only an infant during their height of success, but from around 1975-1984, pretty much starting when Tommy Shaw came in and ending with the effective splitting up of the band after Tommy, Dennis and JY signed solo recording deals, Styx were one of the more intriguing acts in America and around a great deal of the world. One commenter on Youtube recently said something to the effect that Styx were the American equivalent of Queen. I tend to agree to an extant.

In those nine years, Styx grew succesfull due to many different intangibles. One of them was the difference in songwriting. Tommy Shaw was the more folk-rock and weatherbeaten figure that wrote songs filled with different meanings and interpretations. Shaw could also rock out and play a very efficient guitar; in fact, a great deal of the noted guitar parts in their hits songs were Tommy Shaw's own doing.

Dennis DeYoung was the more artier and arguably pompous sort that wrote about ideals and concerns of importance. He sang okay and had adequate piano and synthesizer keyboard skills. He did (and does) however have a complex that has DDY think he was the best thing in Styx. Nonetheless, his songs were quite good, and even crossed boundaries into romanticism and just plain odd, as shown in the two biggest DeYoung hits "Babe" and "Mr. Roboto."

James "JY" Young provided the harder rocking and snarkier aspect to Styx. By comparison with the writing styles of The Beatles, I would put JY as being the George Harrison of the group, with Shaw being the John Lennon and DeYoung being the Sir Paul McCartney. A pretty well efficient singer, and okay if non-influential guitarist and keyboardist, along with being the most blunt on his decisions and opinions.

Chuck Panozzo, while not much of a writer, is a fine bassist, backing vocalist, and visual conceptualist on album covers and such matters. A fine memoirist to boot: if you have not read "Grand Illusions", I would suggest you do so. It is very revealing and open.

Also, there have been other figures during the different eras of Styx, including their long-time drummer John Panozzo, whom passed away in 1996 due to alchohol problems; Todd Sucherman, their current and dynamic drummer; Lawrence Gowan, a fine singer-songwriter-keyboardist; and Glen Burtnik, whom has had different stints with the band for differing purposes.

Anyway, in the 70s and 80s, Styx were huge. And they probably would have been on track for induction into the RRHOF, had it not been for the splitting up of the band by late 1983-early 1984. 26 years have passed since "Kilroy Was Here", which either brought Styx greater acclaim or eventually sucked their influence dry. I am not certain which. The upshot was a rather permanent schism of ideas and relations between Tommy Shaw, James "JY" Young, and Chuck Panozzo as opposed to Dennis DeYoung. I note that Shaw returned to Styx around 1995, and subsequently massive tours and interesting records have been put out since; albeit, Dennis DeYoung has not been involved for the last ten years or so. Also to note, out of all the outside ventures, Tommy Shaw has had the most influential and perhaps sucessfull.

Now, in my opinion, Styx is Tommy Shaw, and Tommy Shaw is Styx. This may piss off a great deal of Dennis DeYoung fans, and I know that DDY himself cannot stand for this idea. But, it is what it is, in my opinion.

Now, you have already heard of some of my comments and responses regarding Peter Gabriel's induction, Cat Stevens' (Yusuf Islam's) induction, and recently why Three Dog Night should not be considered for induction. With that in mind, this Styx issue is perplexing on all fronts. Do any of you posters want to add your thoughts on Styx and the case for a possible induction? To paraphrase, I do not seem to have a crystal ball, yet I just got to know.

"Kilroy Was Here" was not that bad of an album or concept film,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 20:02pm

Lax26...Comparing Styx to the Beatles is a little "out there", don't you think? I know some people who went to that "performance" to support "Kilroy Was Here", and they said it was absolutely dreadful (These were big Styx fans, mind you). It was to Styx What "Sgt. Peppers" was to Peter Frampton...a potential career killer. It wasn't ahead of it's time, it was just a bad idea (which I understand was primarily DeYoung's).

Styx had some hits in the 70's, but I wouldn't say they were "huge". They weren't even in the same league with Queen...in any way!!! As for Cat Stevens, I guess I'd classify him the same way...a few hits, but nothing "earth-shattering".

I was one of those people who actually experienced the 70's, and was very in tuned with the musical culture at the time. there was Led Zeppelin, Queen, Bowie, and Aerosmith...and then there was everyone else.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 20:42pm

...I guess I'll get flogged if I don't throw Elton John and KISS in there too...even though I think KISS is kinda on the fence.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 20:52pm

Stevie Ray Vaughn and Double Trouble
Red Hot Chili Peppers
The Stooges
The Smiths
Afrika Bombaataa
Carole King
The Beastie Boys

Posted by Jim on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 21:11pm

Dude Man, thanks for the article. Holy cow, you're right. Even I found some of those calls to be stretches. At least they didn't call Three Dog Night "hair metal". *rimshot*

Lax, I think the reason no one here said word one about Styx because no one here considers Styx to be even remotely close to hair metal. Tommy Shaw had poofy hair, but so did Sly Stone, and no one's calling his band "hair metal" either. lol. If Styx gets in, though, I think both Shaw and DeYoung will get in, just as both Roth and Hagar were inducted with Van Halen.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.2.09 @ 23:00pm

Thanks Dude - this list is pretty scary.

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/listoftheday/32122

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 03:35am

I got a look at that list as well...

LOVERBOY!!!

LOVERBOY!!!



HUH?????

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 05:29am

Lax26, excellent writeup about Styx. Overdue for induction (as are many other great acts). IMO, too much attention paid to 'Mr. Roboto'. If you list their best songs, 'Mr. Roboto' comes in at 20 or 21, behind some wonderful songs. It is actually pretty good, except for that awkward ending.

Gitarzan, I also lived thru the 70s & from 76 - 81 Styx was pretty big, made alot of money.

Posted by Paul in KY on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 06:33am

The issue regarding Styx. I kind of put them in the same category as Journey but not quite as consistent. I caught the show in Long Island where they blew Aerosmith off the stage. It was the last Aerosmith tour before they broke up the first time. Obviously it was sometime in the late 70's. Disappointing to say the least, but I did walk away with a greater respect for Styx. I will say that "Lady" was a great power ballad.

Paul, you maybe right about too much negative attention being paid to "Mr. Roboto". But to be honest, the minute I heard Mr. Roboto was also the last time I ever played Styx in my house.

Lax - please; I beg you - do not try and make any comparisons to the Beatles or Queen. And I do not believe they were a precursor to what became Hair Metal (God, I hate that term)

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 12:12pm

Styx is not and never will be a hair band. They were an arena rock group. I don't think they have any chance of induction, but I can hope.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 12:37pm

What the hell is arena rock? That has got to be one of the dumbest genre I have ever heard of. Please someone explain to me what arena rock is. Hasn't every band played in and arena at one time or another?

There are so many meaniless genres for rock music, it is ridiculous, it's as if each band has it's own genre. Stop it already.

Dude Man I know that's not a genre that you created you are just quoting what someone else in the media made up. But enough already.

I read the link that Dude Man put up for the top 25 Hair Metal Bands (another dumb genre, it's just rock music with a bunch of hair spray) and the guy that wrote it is a moron.

How can a band that released their first album in 1974 (Kiss) be considered a hair band, stupid. They are a Rock Band. Queensryche a hair band, NOT! They are a Progressive Rock Band. Guns and Roses a hair band, not even. They are a Hard Rock Band. Okay Axel's hair was all frizzed up for the Welcome to the Jungle video. but they are not a hair band.

The term "Metal" is being thrown around so loosely now that it is becoming as watered down as the term "Rock and Roll" just look who's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Of coarse "Metal" is short for "Heavy Metal" and to me Heavy Metal music is heavy, dark, dangerous, riff driven hard rock. When someone calls Def Leppard "Metal" I laugh. Those guys just wrote a bunch of safe hook driven catchy tunes that are no where near "Heavy Metal"

And there are many other bands that are mis-genred (if that is a word) which has been created by the media.

Got to get back to work!

C-Ya

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 16:15pm

Arena rock was a general term for bands in the late '70s/early '80s that were known for having bombastic anthems, the ocassional power ballad, and being favorites of FM radio.

KISS are shock rock/heavy metal, Queensryche are progressive-metal, Def Leppard are a part of the NWoBHM, and sources like Metal rules website, rolling stone, allmusic, rhapsody, and Metal: A Headbanger's Journey list GNR as a metal band.

SpaceTrucker, not all heavy metal is dark. Take Black Sabbath for example. They were Christian band. And what about some of the other early pioneers? Led Zeppelin were not all that dark(other than Page's personal interest in the occult). And Deep Purple were not a scary band.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 17:06pm

the shit is arena rockz

Posted by kerry on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 17:24pm

I do admit that I may have stretched things out quite a bit when mentioning The Beatles and Styx in the same sentence, and then doing mentioning Queen and Styx in another sentence. The Beatles and Queen are or were greater acts both individually and collectively (exceptioning Roger Taylor's solo works, in my opinion.) Styx were rather good, but not for every album. As I have mentioned before, the Tommy Shaw eras of Styx are the better outlets.

What I was pointing out was that Styx had a rather lengthy sucess rate that was at the time remarkable. I beleive they were the first band to have four consecutive albums (The Grand Illusion, Pieces of Eight, Cornerstone, and Paradise Theater) that sold over 2.5 million copies in sucession. Even after that, Kilroy Was Here sold over 1.5 million copies in 1983. Yet, it was that album that, true enough, presented a schism in street cred that is similar to Peter Frampton failing in that awful "Sgt. Pepper's" movie.

Now, Styx should be considered for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame; well, really I would consider Tommy Shaw for induction in recognition of his entire body of works. I will say that if Styx are inducted in the near future, do not expect Tommy Shaw and Dennis DeYoung to patch things up in time for the ceremonies. That is just not going to happen, in as much as the idea of Peter Cetera showing up if Chicago were to be inducted.

Gitarzan, you comments regarding the notion that Three Dog Night should be inducted before Peter Gabriel, with an implication that Gabriel and Genesis were not influential, is baffling and erroneous. Of the two acts, one of them has been involved in the music scene for 40 years now that has bridged genres, visual mediums, and sonic technology that makes for amongst the more unique popular music of the time; also a leader in humanitarian actions to boot. The other is Three Dog Night. To put it more specifically, Peter Gabriel will be inducted in the RRHOF Class of 2010, based on continual advocacy and recognition of Gabriel's long-awaited rewarding. Three Dog Night will not ever be inducted, due to not living up to expectations.

By the way, for Philip and other posters, the reason why Three Dog Night gets more airplay than deserving of induction artists such as Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) is because it is rather cheaper for radio stations and compilation publishers to have their music and recordings be presented due to less than adequate acts not taking control over their productions and publishing. It is one reason why many stations play one-hit wonders and nameless acts more so than the best in their fields. Also, lyrically the songs are rather pedestrian. "Shambala", for example, is a Three Dog Night song in which half of the lyrics are "ahhooohh, heyyyyeaaah", as if neglecting lyrical works. Possibly just as bad as Haircut 100's "Love Plus One" which has those memeroable lyrics "ay yay yay yay yay yay, ay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay." You might now see where this is leading to.

And thus, rather embarrased at typing that paragraph,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 20:00pm

Lax26...I can make that statement, and actually be quite comfortable with it. You're always speaking of Genesis/Peter Gabriel's innovation and influence, but never give any specifics. What did they do that was so important to change or perpetuate Rock music? Also, if Bob Geldof can't get into the hall for humanitarian efforts, then don't hold your breath for Gabriel...nothing he's done even remotely compares to Geldof. Live Aid was a musical event that ranks right up there with Woodstock (IMO), and Gabriel has done "what" in comparison...? As far as videos go, everyone (and I do mean "everyone") was trying to do something innovative with that medium, and to that degree Gabriel (and Genesis) was just doing what everyone else was. The music was good, as were the videos...but we're talking about being "immortalized" in a Hall of Fame.

As I've stated numerous times on this site...

"You can't induct everybody who ever made a record".

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 20:42pm

Well, I don't know about Peter Gabriel's solo work, but Genesis itself is pretty influencial. I believe they were an influence on Dream Theater, Marillion, Porcupine Tree, The Flaming Lips, TV on the Radio, etc.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 20:52pm

WHERE IS RUSH?!?!?!?!?!?!

Posted by Ryan on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 21:14pm

Dude Man you didn't just write that Black Sabbath was a Christian band, that was a bad joke right!

You took one word from my description of Heavy Metal "dark" and applied it to everything. I don't think Led Zeppelin is heavy metal they are blues based hard rock, nor is Deep Purple heavy metal, again hard rock

Black Sabbath were in a league of their own as the godfathers of heavy metal. I think the next heavy metal bands to emerge were Judas Priest and Iron Maiden.

Kiss is in multiple genres? Shock Rock and Heavy Metal? Which is it?

I don't care what anyone says Def Leppard has never been and will never be heavy metal their music is to safe and watered down.

What is a bombastic anthem? I thought hair metal did the power ballads. Is it arena rock or hair metal that does the power ballads? What is a power ballad anyway? a slow song, lots of bands throughout rocks history have done those.

As I said before this genre thing is an out of control thing created by the media and I don't buy into it especially if Rolling Stone Magazine had anything to do with it.

Later Dude.

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 21:44pm

You know Gitarzan, your comment to Lax26 stating that not everyone can get into the hall and what a big deal it is to be "immortalized" as a hall of famer really hit the nail on the head and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is doing a really bad job of doing just that, enshrining and immortalizing deserving bands.

I can think of a lot of bands that shouldn't be in and that Genesis should be and I am not that big a fan of the band.

Isn't influence more opinion and less fact. And the word innovation is way over used and wrongly applied to most of the bands inducted. Isn't perpetuation just the continuation of something? Isn't any band that plays rock and roll perpetuating it?

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 22:04pm

Nope, Black Sabbath used to perform with crosses on stage and sing of the devil being something to fear.

Not all of Zeppelin's work is what can be seen as metal, but if you look at songs they did like "Immigrant Song", "Communication Breakdown", "Kashmir" iswhere you can find the heaviness if you will. And Dave Mustaine once listed Zeppelin as the greatest heavy metal band. And Deep Purple invented speed metal and look at all the metal bands that have covered Deep Purple: Opeth, Yngwie Malmsteen, Metallica, Dream Theater, Venom, Overkill, Metal Church, Faith No More, Type O Negative, Bruce Dickinson.

Black Sabbath didn't really found heavy metal. There were heavy bands before them, but Black Sabbath were the most influencial of the early bands.

Yes, Kiss are both.

Def Leppard are part of the NWoBHM whether you accept it or not.

The arena rock groups, well you'll know these groups when you hear them. They are bands like Journey, Foriegner, REO Speedwagon, Styx, Boston, etc.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 22:06pm

And also I find it weird that you have no problem calling Whitesnake a heavy metal band, yet Coverdale's work with Deep Purple is 10 times heavier and you won't consider them a heavy metal band.

Posted by Dude Man on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 22:13pm

Dude Man you are so far off on Black Sabbath being a Christian band it's not even funny. I saw an interview with Tony Iommi and he said and I quote " The crosses were given to us by someone for good luck so we wore them. They have no religious meaning to us" What Christian band sings "Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope do you think he's a fool"? They abused drugs and alcohol, especially Ozzy.

Come on Dude Man if you truly think Black Sabbath was a Christian band you are going to lose some serious creditability. Anyone else want to back Dude Man on his ridiculous statement that Black Sabbath was a Christian band?

Just because Deep Purple played a song fast does not mean they invented speed metal. The only Deep Purple album that Coverdale sang on that was any good was "Burn" Blackmore even left the band after "Stormbringer" because Coverdale and Hughes were turning them into a funk band. Wikipedia calls the Burn album a "heavier blus rock album and I coudln't agree more. Whitesnake is Hard Rock not Heavy Metal.

Just because a metal band covers a song that does not make the original band metal. Disturbed covered a Genesis song does that make Genesis metal? Megadeth covered "These Boots are made for Walkin' does that make Nancy Sinatra Metal?

C-Ya

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 22:48pm

Space Trucker said:

"What Christian band sings 'Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope do you think he's a fool'"




The song is called "After Forever" and here is the block of lyrics from where the above quote was yanked out of context.

"Have you ever thought about your soul - can it be saved?
Or perhaps you think that when you're dead you just stay in your grave
Is God just a thought within your head or is he a part of you?
Is Christ just a name that you read in a book when you were in school?

When you think about death do you lose your breath or do you keep your cool?
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope - do you think he's a fool?
Well I have seen the truth, yes I've seen the light and I've changed my ways
And I'll be prepared when you're lonely and scared at the end of our days

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love."


They sound like pro Christian words to me............

Posted by classicrocker on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 23:15pm

Of the new group of eligible performers, I'd say RHCP and, though I'm not a fan, Whitney Houston are the most likely to be inducted. Whitney was simply dominant on the charts, despite the questionable quality of much of her material.

Here are others I'd LIKE to see inducted:

50's
The Clovers (the RRHOF's biggest oversight)
Jesse Belvin
Billy Ward & the Dominoes
The Kingston Trio
The "5" Royales

60's
Dick Dale & the Del-Tones
The Hollies
The Moody Blues
Paul Revere & the Raiders
Mitch Ryder & the Detroit Wheels
Brook Benton
The Crystals/Darlene Love

70's-80's
Rush
The Cars
Genesis
Peter Gabriel
Yes
Hall & Oates
The Spinners
Kool & the Gang
Alice Cooper (the band)
Deep Purple
Foreigner
Def Leppard
Todd Rundgren
SRV
Chicago
Donna Summer
War
Chic

Non-performers:
Tom Dowd

Posted by crumptyjack on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 23:30pm

the B-52'S
Pat Benatar
the Chiffons
Danny and the Juniors
Donovan
Electic Light Orchestra
the Fifth Dimension
Connie Francis
Lesley Gore
Heart (Ann & Nancy Wilson)
Carole King
Steve Miller Band
Laura Nyro
Neil Sedaka
Donna Summer
Three Dog Night
Mary Wells

Posted by john on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 04:17am

Isn't influence more opinion and less fact. And the word innovation is way over used and wrongly applied to most of the bands inducted. Isn't perpetuation just the continuation of something? Isn't any band that plays rock and roll perpetuating it?

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Monday, 08.3.09 @ 22:04pm
--------------------------------------------------
So if you eliminate Influence, Innovation, and Perpetuation, just what are you basing the induction on?

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 04:46am

Influence: I don't think we can say that influence is merely an opinion. When Steve Jones says that he basically ripped off Johnny Thunders, then we can clearly see the influence. When Nicki Sixx states that The Ramones were a big influence on The Crue, then we take that as fact. Most musicians will state at some point during an interview who they were influenced by. When you have a group of different musicians who state a band or an artist was a big influence, then you can measure influential impact. (Why aren't the NY Dolls in the HoF) Sorry, had to throw that in. Only goes to show the absurdity of this institution.

Innovation: I think that S.T. makes a legit point here. The creation of the electric guitar was innovative. But I think that innovation in actual music is minimal at best. A new sound may be heard during experimentation; new recording techniques may emerge as equipment becomes more sophisticated. Obviously, some bands have merged different musical styles and have come up with a different sound. I don't know if we can call that innovation as much as reinvention.

Perpetuation: This is my personal favorite amongst the stated criteria. I disagree with S.T. on some levels of this. Yes, any band including garage bands that never see the light of day outside a H.S. dance does help in perpetuating the artform. But it is the degree which determines special accolades. The topic lately has been the 80's and the genre defined as "Hair Bands. I can only use examples to explain: Def Leppard, Motley Crue, Poison and Warrant were fairly successful bands in the 80's. And I am sure that kids picked up guitars after hearing these bands play. I would say that D.L. and the Crue absolutely perpetuated the artform whereas Poison and Warrant did not. The reality is that Poison and Warrant probably never get a recording contract if it were not for the success of the other two bands. So as much as any kid can help perpetuate the artform just by his or her love of music, it is the level in which they moved the artform that may or may not be the deciding factor in whether a band gets inducted.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 06:34am

Black Sabbath were a Christian band. I don't know where you got your information on the crosses, but Iommi himself said that the crosses were given to them for protection and that he has never performed without a cross since. It's even the symbol of the band. And here's the lyrics to thier title track:
_________________________________________
What is this that stands before me?
Figure in black which points at me
Turn around quick, and start to run
Find out Im the chosen one
Oh nooo!

Big black shape with eyes of fire
Telling people their desire
Satans sitting there, hes smiling
Watches those flames get higher and higher
Oh no, no, please God help me!

Is it the end, my friend?
Satans coming round the bend
People running cause theyre scared
The people better go and beware!
No, no, please, no!
______________________________

Gee, it sure does sound like Ozzy's screaming to somebody for help.

You forget how fast Deep Purple was. If you listen to songs they did like "Fireball" and "Highway Star" is where speed metal got it's start. And thrash bands like Anvil have called Deep Purple early speed metal. And Mikael Akerfeldt of Opeth listed Whitesnake and Deep Purple in his list of the greatest metal bands. And since you like use wikipedia, so much you should know that it says that Deep Purple, " Along with Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath, they are considered to be among the pioneers of heavy metal"

Stormbringer's title track is great. And Glenn didn't turn them into a rhythm and blues, funk rock band until Come Taste the Band.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 09:06am

Whitney Houston is NOT and NEVER was Rock and Roll, HOF; after Madonna, NEVER AGAIN!

Posted by Stop the Badness on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 10:01am

And Ian Gillan seemed to have no problem fronting Black Sabbath on Born Again. Maybe because Black Sabbath and Deep Purple are both pioneering heavy metal bands.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 10:19am

Coven must be added. So say all seven of thier fans who have commandeered this website. Heavy Dark Black Goth Mascara Metal rules! Jinxie was hot though.

Posted by BLZbub on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 10:21am

No Coven are psychedelia not metal!

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 10:26am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sgxlULLIvU&feature=related

If you want real '60s heavy metal, you should listen to this band.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 10:30am

Dude Man,

You are right I mistated, the crosses were for protection not luck. Black Sabbath said they wanted to be the "scariest band ever" so why not sing about death, the devil, god, nuclear annihilation, war, graves, drugs.

Dark, dangerous, riff driven Heavy Metal. Just because a bands songs are about certain subjects that does not define who the band is.

If a band writes a song about murder, are they kliiers?

If a band writes about rape, are they rapist?

If a band writes a song about war, are they war mongers? No.

Ozzy and Bill (Ward) would seek help through drug and alcohol abuse not religion.

It's funny you think the crosses and songs make them Christian. The general feeling about Black Sabbath when they came out was that they were anti-christ satan worshipers. So which is it?

Deep Purple is one of my favorite bands no need to remind me of what they have done. "Speed King" was a fast song also. Okay they played fast songs, they also played some blues songs, some middle tempo songs. So were they speed metal or blues driven hard rock? Speed Metal is played way faster than any Deep Purple song and thats why it is called speed metal not blues based hard rock. If Anthrax were Deep Purple fans (I don't know if they were) thats great but Deep Purple did not influence them to play as fast as they do, they did it on their own.

You are telling me one song from an album "Stormbringer" the title track was good, I agree, what about the rest of the songs? "Burn" was the only good Deep Purple album with Coverdale singing. Blackmore left the band because he didn't like the direction they were going in on "Stormbringer" Not one of his songs were used on that album.

I know about Blue Cheer. They definately played some heavy music so did Iron Butterfly, but it wasn't that great. Blue Cheer's only decent album was "Vincebus Eruptus" and Iron Butterflies "In Da Gadda Da Vida" was their only decent song and that was way to long, the riff was great but the crap in the middle was a waste of recording time.

Black Sabbath was the complete package, solid Heavy Metal music album after album, they were the true Heavy Metal band.

Got to go now.

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 11:41am

Black Sabbath even did Church benefit concerts.

They often toured with a satanic band called Black Widow in thier early days, whom the media would often confuse with Sabbath which is most likely how the whole thinking of Sabbath as a satanic band started. Sabbath also played songs in the tritone which was banned in the middle ages, but the lyrics were always about satan being something to stay away from. So Black Sabbath were a Christian group.

"Ozzy and Bill (Ward) would seek help through drug and alcohol abuse not religion"-SpaceTrucker

Mel Gibson got busted for alcohol does that mean he wasn't a Christian?

Black Sabbath even had some blues in them. "The Wizard" has harmonica on it. And "Wheels of Confusion" has one of the bluesest intros I have ever heard from Sabbath.

I have found multiple sites that link Deep Purple to the creation of speed metal. It has evolved over time. And look on Myspace's music page for Anthrax, they do list Deep Purple as an influence.

I'll admitt Strombringer is not thier best album and Burn will remain the definitive album of Mark. 3(but Strombringer was reissued by Metal Blade in the '90s).

Blue Cheer first two albums were classics. And Iron Butterfly had some underrated material as well("Iron Butterfly Theme" and "Are You Happy?" were also some pretty heavy stuff for it's time, even though a lot of the rest of thier material was quite psychedelic.)

And not all of Sabbath work was heavy. "Planet Caravan" is the obvious case. "Changes" and "Laguna Sunrise" were ballads.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 12:14pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pFNBDmdDdo

Here SpaceTrucker I think you will find this interesting. Tony Iommi and Bill Ward were both originally in a blues band called Mythology(Tony was also in Jethro Tull for a few days, but that's another story.) Here's some audio.

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 12:32pm

Dude Man,

I love this conversation, so much cool info is coming out of this. We are discussing actual rock bands not the other crap that gets discussed on this site. This is about AWESOME ROCK MUSIC!

But you are still wrong, Black Sabbath is not a Christian band:)

Dude Man, Black Widow is the reason Black Sabbath was known as a satanic band? Tritone music banned in the middle ages is the reason? Dude, come on you are really reaching here.

Look, Mel getting busted for a DUI is not even close to abusing drugs and alcohol day in and day out to the point where it almost kills you. Not a good analogy.

Of coarse I know about Black Sabbath's slow songs, you are preaching to the choir, yuk, yuk.

How can a Blue Cheer album be a classic if nobody heard it?

Re-issuing an album does not make it any better just more profitable.

Speed Metal was created when Metallica and Megadeth decided to play their songs faster than anyone else. Thats when it started. No one ever said at the time, wow! that Deep Purple song sounds like speed metal, it didn't exist.

The best thing that came out of Iron Butterfly was Captain Beyond, Their debut album is AWESOME!

"Dancing madly backwards, dancing on a sea of air"
Captain Beyond

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 13:22pm

Metallica and Megadeth are thrash metal not speed metal(and I believe thrash goes back even before them to bands like Anvil). Thrash took influences of early speed metal, the NWoBHM, and hardcore punk. There is a difference between speed and thrash.

Sorry, they are a Christian band.

Well the media was known to confuse the two bands(they both had Black in thier names and shared the same mangement.) And yes the tritone was thought to "evil music".

I don't think Ozzy is proud of all the drug abuse seeing of how he looks today. And didn't Dave Mustaine become a Born Again Christian after he sobered up?

Slow songs? "Plant Caravan" is freaking trippy, joy ride(even though I love that song.)

Almost no one knows of Captain Beyond's album and yet it's a classic(and I agree that Captain Beyond were one of the best obsurities of the '70s.)

Well several band's were influenced by Stormbringer. For instance Opeth did a cover of the ballad, "Solider of Fortune".

Posted by Dude Man on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 13:43pm

Okay Dude Man now you have to explain to me the difference between Thrash Metal and Speed Metal (here we go with the genres again).

This is something else I've been meaning to bring up. Is it an automatic that if a band covers another bands song that they were influenced by them or did they just want to cover the song? You always use one band covering another as absolute influence and I don't think that is always the case.

Never called Captain Beyond classic, I just said I thought their debut album was AWESOME!

Good for Dave Mustaine for getting sober, I love Megadeth. What does that have to do with Black Sabbath being in your opinion, a Christian band?

So what is a Christian band doing playing the evil and banned Tritone music? Doesn't make sense.

Come on Dude Man type on your keyboard "You were right SpaceTrucker Black Sabbath is not a Christian band" it will be good for your soul:)

Got to go see Whitesnake and Judas Preist perform.

AWESOME!!!!!!!

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 15:46pm

1 Electric Light Orchestra
2 Genesis
3 Phil Collins
4 Chicago
5 The Doobie Brothers
6 Bachman-Turner Overdrive
7 J. Geils Band
8 Spinners
9 The Cars
10 Alan Parsons Project

Posted by Rick Vendl II on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 16:00pm

Influence: I don't think we can say that influence is merely an opinion. When Steve Jones says that he basically ripped off Johnny Thunders, then we can clearly see the influence. When Nicki Sixx states that The Ramones were a big influence on The Crue, then we take that as fact. Most musicians will state at some point during an interview who they were influenced by. When you have a group of different musicians who state a band or an artist was a big influence, then you can measure influential impact. (Why aren't the NY Dolls in the HoF) Sorry, had to throw that in. Only goes to show the absurdity of this institution.

Innovation: I think that S.T. makes a legit point here. The creation of the electric guitar was innovative. But I think that innovation in actual music is minimal at best. A new sound may be heard during experimentation; new recording techniques may emerge as equipment becomes more sophisticated. Obviously, some bands have merged different musical styles and have come up with a different sound. I don't know if we can call that innovation as much as reinvention.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 08.4.09 @ 06:34am
--------------------------------------------------
For the record, I wasn't asking for a definition of I & I when I was answering Trucker's comments, though your posting was great. I only grabbed the middle part cause it had the one thing in there that's relevant to ALL rock, namely the idea of innovation vs re-invention. Re-invention shouldn't be seen as a bad thing; if anything there has been more of that than true invention in rock.

Instead of I & I, maybe we should be calling it I & R (or I & R & P -- IRP, for short)

There you go... start asking for a band's IRP factor! (lmao)

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 06:58am

You know, I said I only grabbed the middle part, but it appears I am wrong. I WAS only aiming for the middle part...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 07:00am

Instead of IRP, change it around a bit and call it "RIP"

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 07:16am

My prediction:

1. Red Hot Chili Peppers
2. The Stooges
3. Chic
4. Roxy Music
5. The Beastie Boys
6. Tina Turner
7. Link Wray
8. The Crystals
9. Fairport Convention

I can't help but think that this year, since it's the 25th induction, they'll nominate more than nine artists. In that case, I predict they'd add the following nine:

1. Deep Purple
2. ABBA
3. Gram Parsons / The Flying Burrito Brothers
4. The Cure
5. Randy Newman
6. Kate Bush
7. The '5' Royales
8. Screamin' Jay Hawkins
9. The Dire Straits

And for the other categories:
Non-performer: Quincy Jones / Tom Dowd
Sideman: Billy Preston / Nicky Hopkins
Early influence: Wynonie Harris / Roy Brown / Joe & Jimmy Liggins

Posted by The_Claw on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 07:47am

THE NOMINEES WERE ANNOUNCED DURING THE LAST WEEK OF SEPTEMBER IN 2007 AND 2008. HOPEFULLY IT'S THE SAME THIS YEAR.

Posted by AAS on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 10:23am

MAYBE THEY'LL NOMINATE 18 AND INDUCT 9

Performers

Gram Parsons, War, Chic, The Stooges, Donna Summer, Beastie Boys, Joan Baez, Judy Collins, The Kingston Trio, The Hollies, Herman's Hermits, Chicago, Alice Cooper, Neil Diamond, Janet Jackson, Bon Jovi, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Red Hot Chilli Peppers

Sideman

Billy Preston

Early Influence

Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee

Non-Performers

Tom Dowd
Arif Mardin
Quincy Jones
Bernie Taupin

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 10:38am

Dameon,

I agree, my statement that influence is only opinion was too broad. Definitely when a band or artist states that they were influenced by someone that is fact. My comment was more about people in general. When a band sounds like someone else they automaticly says they were influence by them and I don't think that is always the case.

Or when a band covers another bands song that is automatic influence which I don't think is always the case either. Maybe they just liked the song.

Awhile back someone posted that Rush was influenced by Journey because of a similar riff in a Journey and Rush song. That is more than likely an opninion. A lot of riffs, beats and melodies have been shared throughout this history of rock. I use the word shared loosely.

My point is the the three criteria (influence, innovation and perpetuation)that the hall has failed to follow themselves on many an induction is really based many time on opnion.

Maybe one important criteria that should be included is the band should actually play rock music. And how about considering longevity and popularity.

If the greatest band in the world didn't sell any albums and no one came to their shows nothing else would really matter, popularity is important.

And if a band has been selling albums on a large scale and selling out concerts for twenty or thirty years they must be doing something that is extraodinary, so longevity should count for something also.

I think somehow the people should have a say. In a way we already have by buying albums and attending concerts but thats where it ends. Thirty or so stuck up prententious people should not have the final say.

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 11:32am

I agree with you ST on most issues. Just because one band covers another bands song does not mean that they were influenced by that band. It means they liked that song.

At this point, being a Rock band to bget inducted is moot. That stopped the day they inducted pure blues artist as performers and not early influences. And to be honest, I have no problem with that. There is no Rock and Roll HoF without the Blues.

As for the public having a say, I fear that would only lead to inductions of artists that should never be allowed into the Hall, even if they buy a ticket.

I do think sales should account for something. Maybe not a lot, but something.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 13:17pm

I agree with the statement that if you perform Rock & Roll, you are, in fact, perpetuating it. An observation that I've made on influence and innovation is quite simple...the great earlier artists set the bar pretty high, which does impede influence and innovation. Nowadays, if Band X is influenced by Band Y, but Band Y was influenced by Band Z, then ultimately Band X is influenced by Band Z, and is henceforth the major influence. It's very difficult for a band today to shake up the recording industry for a number of reasons...there's a lot of "been there, done that", plus with Rock & Roll the "shock value" isn't as pronounced as it used to be.

I actually think that unless someone comes along and absolutely takes the world by storm, the "Hall of Fame" will become so diluted that it will mean very little to be inducted (which it's on a collision course to do that very thing). As for what it will take to shake up the music industry, I'd be rich if I had the answer to that...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 17:14pm

What is influence in a field that is entirely subjective?

In my opinion, influence in this field is the ability to have a noted body of work that is not entirely based on I want to love you songs and let us dance this dance songs. My preferences tend to include soundscapes that are rather unique, a greater committment to the visual mediums in concurrence with the recordings, and most importantly lyrics that matter. What lyrics that matter is entirely up to the listener to decide. For extra credit, I would consider the impact of using one's music to enhance the betterment of mankind.

Yet again, this is why my five picks for induction in the Performers category are whom they are. Peter Gabriel, The Eurythmics, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam), Donna Summer, and Chic clearly fit either all or more than one of those credentials. By the way, these sorts of noted works are noted as to why Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the RRHOF Class of 2010 (including Gabriel's Realworld businesses, The Elders, and Witness), and why Phil Collins will never be inducted on his own; not even for Brand X (jazz wank to the extreme.) The same goes for why Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) will be inducted (including the importance of Yusuf's numerous charitable concerns and improvement of the livelihoods of fellow Muslims), and why Three Dog Night will never be inducted (seriously, is such drivel as "Eli's Coming any good?).

To note, regarding Rick Vendl II's list, we know that Peter Gabriel will be inducted, entailing Genesis' output up through 1975. I will say that Genesis as a band should be inducted as well. I also agree with your sentiments regarding The Cars and J. Geils, along with his longtime bandmates. To be more specific on the better eras of the following bands, I would prefer inducting Roy Wood and Bev Bevan to Electric Light Orchestra, Terry Kath and Peter Cetera to Chicago, Michael McDonald to the Doobie Brothers, and G.C. Cameron to the Spinners.

Where the list really screws up is considering Phil Collins, Bachman-Turner Overdrive, and Alan Parsons and his Project as worthy of induction. They are not worthy. If any of those three were to be inducted, I will proceed to eat my hat and show the results on YouTube. Considering the chances of those three artists not ever making it, I shall continue to live a life not in need of getting my hat eaten.

Prove me wrong if you must,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 19:34pm

Lax26 wrote:

"I will say that Genesis as a band should be inducted as well."

Would that include Phil Collins as drummer, then later frontman?

"To be more specific on the better eras of the following bands, I would prefer inducting Roy Wood and Bev Bevan to Electric Light Orchestra"

What about Jeff Lynne, Richard Tandy and Kelly Groucutt?!

"Where the list really screws up is considering Phil Collins, Bachman-Turner Overdrive, and Alan Parsons and his Project as worthy of induction. They are not worthy. If any of those three were to be inducted, I will proceed to eat my hat and show the results on YouTube. Considering the chances of those three artists not ever making it, I shall continue to live a life not in need of getting my hat eaten."

Then I can live with those 3 never receiving an induction.

Posted by Rick Vendl II on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 22:21pm

An observation that I've made on influence and innovation is quite simple...the great earlier artists set the bar pretty high, which does impede influence and innovation. Nowadays, if Band X is influenced by Band Y, but Band Y was influenced by Band Z, then ultimately Band X is influenced by Band Z, and is henceforth the major influence. It's very difficult for a band today to shake up the recording industry for a number of reasons...there's a lot of "been there, done that", plus with Rock & Roll the "shock value" isn't as pronounced as it used to be.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.5.09 @ 17:14pm
--------------------------------------------------
I'd say the "shock value" is determined not by what came before, but by what is happening right now, and who is hearing it in the present.

"been there, done that" is only relevant to the folks who want to leave the world in a "been there, done that" state. Perhaps it really does have to do more w/re-invention than anything else, I guess.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 05:41am

Yep, "been there, done that" can only come from a limited amount of people's perspective and they're not going to be around forever, so I would think there's a lot of "reinvention" going on in years to come. All I'm saying is that the template is in place, and the bar is set pretty high...now it's up to artists to take it and run with it to somewhere it hasn't been yet.

Hopefully, there won't be a lot of "regression" that goes along with it.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 06:08am

If ELO were to be inducted, the line up that performed during the 'Out of the Blue' tour would have to be inducted, along with some other early members whose names escape me at the moment. The 7 who were in the band at that time (to me) make up the 'classic' ELO lineup.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 06:31am

Paul, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Worrying about which lineup kinda puts the cart before the horse.

Posted by ralph on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 07:02am

Paul in KY wrote:

"If ELO were to be inducted, the line up that performed during the 'Out of the Blue' tour would have to be inducted, the 7 who were in the band at that time (to me) make up the 'classic' ELO lineup."

Jeff Lynne, Bev Bevan, Richard Tandy, Kelly Groucutt, Mik Kaminski, Hugh McDowell and Melvyn Gale.

"long with some other early members whose names escape me at the moment."

Roy Wood who left Electric Light Orchestra around 1972 was one of three founding members along with the first 2 above, so for me these 8 should definately be inducted.

Lax26 wrote:

"Where the list really screws up is considering Phil Collins, Bachman-Turner Overdrive, and Alan Parsons and his Project as worthy of induction. They are not worthy. If any of those three were to be inducted, I will proceed to eat my hat and show the results on YouTube. Considering the chances of those three artists not ever making it, I shall continue to live a life not in need of getting my hat eaten."

Rick Vendl II wrote:

"Then I can live with those 3 never receiving an induction."

Just to clarify, if my other 7 artists somehow get in one day.

Posted by Rick Vendl II on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 09:22am

Ralph, agreed. I was just responding to a previous comment. If ELO was inducted, I would be so happy that it could just be Jeff Lynne & Roy Wood alone (which seems to be the way they are going, just induct the most known names & not the others).

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 09:26am

ralph wrote:

"Paul, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Worrying about which lineup kinda puts the cart before the horse."

Don't worry, I won't, but we'll speculate nonetheless, thank you.

Posted by Rick Vendl II on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 09:28am

Rick Vendl II, thanks for getting the name 'Roy Wood'. That's who I was thinking about.

Sure hope it happens some day.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 09:29am

thinking

ok not too cool - but benetar,heart,chicago

also genesis , grand funk. deep purple would work for me

not getting this donna summer thing - this is a rock and roll hall of fame ???? not getting chic neither ????

Posted by golfer on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 16:45pm

Re: NOW PICK 9 NOMINEES AND 5 INDUCTEES!!
Let me meditate on this awhile and I will get back with my list. But: IF they put Chic and Stooges on the ballot again this year I will probably puke ... that would be "pushing" them. Forget them. Philip I usually like yor posts, but this time yor predictions & rationale are not to my liking ... uhoh, what am I startin here? However, I do like yor rabbit picture!

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 17:40pm

Ok, Lax, you wanna compare notes? Here we go:

"By the way, for Philip and other posters, the reason why Three Dog Night gets more airplay than deserving of induction artists such as Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) is because it is rather cheaper for radio stations and compilation publishers to have their music and recordings be presented due to less than adequate acts not taking control over their productions and publishing. It is one reason why many stations play one-hit wonders and nameless acts more so than the best in their fields."

This isn't even a coherent paragraph. What the hell are you talking about? Radio stations aren't even involved with the publishing aspect of it. I could point out several errors in the above statement you wrote, but I will just say that reading it, it is very clear you know nothing about the world of radio or the programming thereof.


"Also, lyrically the songs are rather pedestrian. "Shambala", for example, is a Three Dog Night song in which half of the lyrics are "ahhooohh, heyyyyeaaah", as if neglecting lyrical works. Possibly just as bad as Haircut 100's "Love Plus One" which has those memeroable lyrics "ay yay yay yay yay yay, ay yay yay yay yay yay yay yay." You might now see where this is leading to."

Yes, it's leading right to the point where I comment, that by comparison Cat Stevens must be a genius for writing "la la la la la la la la la, la la la la la la la la la" as part of the lyrics for "Wild World", or just as insiped lines about "Don't be a bad girl" and about "nice things to wear." Yeah, that's great poetry right there.

Though you are right about Haircut 100... suxxor.

And "Eli's Coming" while not my favorite Three Dog Night song, still kicks the crap out of his rendition of "Another Saturday Night".

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 17:45pm

Telarock, sorry, man. Last year, I only picked 3 of the 9, so I'm not that great at it. I would be interested in discussing what about my logic you don't like though.

And naturally I'd love to discuss your picks too. Once you post them that is. (coward!, just kidding)

Glad you liked the picture though. I've posted pics on this site before, and when Git "complained" about there being no pictures on this thread... it seemed like the obvious thing to do. lol

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 17:49pm

Cheeselips..."Been there, done that" is downright boring. As obscure of a player as I am, even when playing a cover I try to play solos "my way"...at least change things around a little bit. My point is that everything that has come before has made it more challenging to take things to another level. There are good groups/artists out there, but I can't remember the last time I said "WOW" to anything new in music. It's nobody's fault, I just lived through a time when the bar was raised almost constantly.

As for influence, I will agree that some in rock music is subjective, but there is some that is absolute. In the series "The History of Rock & Roll", Tom Petty made an interesting comment. He said "I can narrow Rock & Roll down to about 10 artists"...a comment I found very interesting, coming from him...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 18:06pm

Gitar - You say you cannot remember thelast time you said WOW to anything - is that not subjective, to a degree?

You note that you lived through a time that the bar was raised almost constantly - this is also subjective... I happen to feel that in the 80's and the 90's the bar was being raised just as often and just as well - only in a different form than what came prior...

Tell you what... try this as an example - Surely you have seen the film "Gimme Shelter" (perhaps you own a copy). Even if you don't, I know you can check it out. At one point in the film the camera is scanning around the Speedway. There is a brief shot of someone who is sitting on the grass, who's clearly older than the rest of the crowd. Matter of fact, he's dressed up not unlike the Brando character in "The Wild One". If he does go back to 54, that would be a 15yr gap to Altamont.

What do you think he's thinking about the Stones or the Airplane? Do you think he's got a "been there, done that" attitude? Do you think he perceives a downward turn from say, Bill Haley, The Chords SH BOOM, maybe early Elvis? Just take a look at this gentleman and try to guess his age, and what his perception might be about what he's looking at - then you might get a clue where I'm coming from...

for the record, it's about 30-35 minutes in, I believe - haven't checked my copy in a while.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 18:26pm

Gitar - forgot to tell you, the man in question is a balding character, heavyset, wearing a black leather jacket. He clearly stood out from the hippies due to this.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 18:28pm

Absolutely...the reason for not going "WOW" to anything lately is totally and completely my point of view. Remember that I started playing guitar in 1967, and before that I was enamored with the Beatles and my mom was an active member of the national Elvis fan club...we literally had hundreds of 45's around the house (that we could listen to if we were careful...LOL). So the music I listened to was from the "big bang" of rock (because it was recent) right into the Beatles and the British Invasion and all the manifestations from that...and it was happening right before my eyes. We discussed the Beatles and Woodstock (and Altamont...what a scary scene that was)in school when it actually happened. Other young guitarists and I were discussing Hendrix, Clapton, etc... right during their heyday. It was all still very new, and I was fortunate to have parents (my mom more so than my dad) who were hip to it. The guitar playing just intensified my interest that much more.

So, I've had a lot of "WOW" pertaining to music in my time...and I'd like to have more!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 18:56pm

To Philip: For 'predictions' many of us I think really mean 'wish list' and we will hardly ever get the RHOF picks right. But now it seems people are formulizing it, e.g., my "hip-hop" pick, my "hard rock" pick, my "femail", my "punk" pick, etc ... as if now there MUST be one in each category? Don't "split the ballot" by putting two hip-hoppers on it, etc. Realities? Politics? Sure, as usual.
I like yor picks of SRV and Hollies. Janet I dont love, but she really is a realistic choice. I think/hope the taboo against disco has lifted, if so, Donna Summer should get in before Janet. Chic and Stooges should go back up on the shelf (and stay there).
I see Lax is back at it, now taking up the cause for Cat Stevens (along w/ whats his name)? ...Ugh!
I will give my picks and wish list another time. Then you can kill me (w/ criticism).

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 19:46pm

Twisted Sister should get in they should be the only one in. They are one of the most innovative and influential and best acts of the last 30 years. Best band ever created and will always be you know it's true great great orchestrating music so good it's criminal YES YES AND YES they own your soul and are the most overlooked band eligble

Posted by bald faced truth on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 19:49pm

I had a nightmare that I woke up and Dee Snider owned my soul!! Needless to say I "wasn't going to take it"!!!

They're an okay band...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 19:55pm

King Crimson
Peter Gabriel
Stevie Ray Vaughn
The Cure
Janet Jackson

also nominated:
The Hollies
Tommy James & The Shondells
T.Rex
The Cure

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 21:48pm

Wait a minute. Are the Red Hot Chili Peppers eligible. Has it really been that long?

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 08.6.09 @ 21:55pm

Motley Crue!!!

Posted by Ryan on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 12:32pm

Stevie Ray Vaughan AND Double Trouble
Deep Purple
Jethro Tull
Electric Light Orchestra
Chicago
Linda Rondstadt

Posted by paisteman on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 14:04pm

I will not even try and predict who these knuckleheads will nominate. I have seen some worthy choices but I think it is time to correct some miscues. These are my hopes:

Alice Cooper
NY Dolls
Deep Purple
King Crimson
ELP
Cheap Trick
Stooges
Joy Division
Television

Now that would be one hell of a ceremony.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 14:22pm

This isn't my prediction of the nominees, but my wishlist:

1) The Hollies
2) Neil Diamond
3) The Moody Blues
4) Chicago
5) Neil Sedaka
6) The Monkees
7) The Carpenters
8) Steve Miller Band
9) Rush
10)Linda Ronstadt/Dionne Warwick/Suzie Quatro/Jonat Jett/ Petula Clark

Posted by Jonny on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 16:55pm

Telarock-- Look forward to your picks... as for Stooges and Chic... Chic can definitely go back on the shelf and stay there. Stooges I think should get in. But I don't think either will go back on the shelf... I mean they were 2 of the 3 that I correctly predicted as being on the ballot last year. lol

As far as formulizing it... well, that's part of this site's function really. And for those of us who are regulars, well, we try to hone it as a craft, when in reality, it's a lot of blind luck. lol But formulizing isn't such a bad thing, either. Formulizing means you're predicting with your head. Whereas these wish list predictions are leading with the heart. And it hurts less to be wrong when you lead with your head rather than your heart. My wish list is much different than my predictions. My wish list starts with lifting this silly limitation of nominating 9 and only inducting 5.

And it's kind of a man-competition thing. Who can get the most correct? lol

Again, look forward to your predictions, be they leading with your head or your heart.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 17:36pm

01. Chic
02. Chicago
03. Chic
04. Chicago
05. Chic
06. Chicago
07. Chic
08. Chicago
09. Chic

Posted by Roy on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 19:13pm

Y'know, Roy, seeing as how you're so gung-ho that there should be at least 50 inductees to make up for all the glaring omissions and such, it strikes me as odd that your 9 picks would consist of only two groups, thus making it possible for only 2 acts to get inducted this year, thus creating even MORE glaring omissions!

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 19:39pm

Roy, I will warrant Chicago, most notably because of T. Kath (R.I.P.), but disagree with all those odd # picks you made??? (cheaky smile)

Posted by Telarock on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 22:48pm

Burn!

Posted by Jonny on Friday, 08.7.09 @ 22:48pm

I'll just post it again, my nominee predictions:

Stevie Ray Vaughan
Deep Purple
Dire Straits
Tom Waits
T. Rex
The Moody Blues
The Stooges
Genesis

Posted by Keebord on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 03:38am

So Roy, you are saying you want Chic and Chicago to be inducted into the RRHOF for the Class of 2010, if I am clear with you? And we are certain that both acts are on your prediction lists, right?

To note, Chic are going to be inducted. The waiting cannot be contained any longer. As for Chicago, these guys should have been inducted years ago. I will say, though, that Chicago went from being a highly influential and exciting act, to just being alright. Terry Kath's death in 1978 and Peter Cetera's departure in 1985 took a great toll on the rest of the band. Still, Robert Lamm, James Pankow, Walt Parazaider, Lee Loughane, Bill Champlim, Jason Scheff, Keith Howland and Tris Imboden put on great shows and fine albums to this day. Therefore, though I would specify the induction to be of peter Cetera, and possibly Terry Kath, Chicago should be inducted sometime in the near future.

By the way, you cannot induct the same act twice in the same year; that is to say, you cannot induct Chic, and Chic again. One induction is enough. It would be downright nutty if I, for example, picked Peter Gabriel as all five of my inferences for induction in the RRHOF Class of 2010. I have said, in previous postings, that Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford, and Genesis as a band (maybe even Ray Wilson) should be inducted, and perhaps at the same year. Thus, if you were making a play on my words, good job. To note, an induction of Peter Gabriel is much deserved and will occur, and if it is only Gabriel being inducted, it will suffice.

Also Mike, you mentioned the Cure twice. Just pointing that out. By the way, The cure could be considered in the near future; for me, they are an okay band. A tad bit overrated, and frankly there is a great deal of people who think The Cure only had for hit songs "Friday I'm In Love". That is not the case, and is not even one of their best songs. "Love Song", for instance, is a greater song.

All in good jest,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 06:56am

its rediculous that kiss,allice copper,rush,def lepperd,cheap trick, judas preist and bad company arent in the hall. but madonna and run dmc is.

Posted by hunter on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 08:16am

Cheap Trick should have been in years ago!! It is a travesty they have been ignored.

Posted by Jim Reckling on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 13:04pm

Should be but most likely won'tin no real order..
Big Bopper
Crickets
Peter Paul and Mary
Kingsmen
Link Wray
Surfaris
Donavon
Sandy Nelson
Kingston Trio
Pasty Cline
Joan Baez
Big Brother and the Holding Company
Nicky Hoppkins
Leon Russel
Carol Kay
Funk Brothers
Monkeys
Johny Rivers
Them
and a host of others

Thank you an have a nice Day

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 13:33pm

Enough with the 50s/early 60s doo-wop groups already; no one under the age of grizzled old drooling farts CARES!

Posted by No Peter Paul & Mary either on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 14:36pm

the smiths my only pick

Posted by SCOTT on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 14:58pm

People complaining about Run-DMC being in the Hall (presumably because they rapped and didn't "rock") ought to take a good listen to their first 3 albums and try telling me that the likes of Chicago, Moody Blues, Jan and Dean(?!?!?!), and too many of the other groups being endlessly touted for induction "rocked" more or better...

Posted by Rock Avenger on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 15:47pm

can anyone honestly call themselves fans of Rage Against the Machine, Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Faith No More and tell me that rap has in no way influenced rock?

Music is music people. How can you honestly say that music can't influence other music?

Posted by Justin on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 15:53pm

There are scores of artists who have been more influential and, quite frankly, "rocked" harder than Run-DMC. This was just another example of why this should be referred to as the "Popular Music Hall of Fame". They did a duet with Aerosmith...big deal!!! That's a reason to get inducted? They definitely perpetuated rap, but pushing it into the mainstream can be narrowed down to one song...

"Rapper's Delight"

This is one in a long list of inductees that I will never understand...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 16:01pm

IRON MAIDEN
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Steve Miller Band
Rush
Johny Rivers
Deep Purple
Dire Straits
Cheap Trick
Jethro Tull
Electric Light Orchestra
Chicago
Genesis
Alice Cooper

Posted by chris on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 16:47pm

Some people still want to think that because it's caleld the 'Rock and Roll" Hall of Fame, that that means it should ne just for rock artists. What they fail to understand is that it's always meant to be an umbrealla categorization for various genres.

Obviously there aren't many country acts in the HOF, but there has been a Country Music Hall of Fame for some time. And, that makes sense- it's one notable genre that- outside of a pop mix- has not gotten played on regular mainstream top 40 radio in eons. Back in the 70s/80s, some of the biggest hits on the country chart (of course, not all) were played on Contemporary Hit Radio. That's less the case in recent times, unless there's a pop-friendly mix of a country track.

The Music Hall of fame would be a fine name change- not Popular Music, though, because there are members of the HOF who were not all that commercially successful compared to other acts (showing that commercial success alone is not enough for consideration and/or induction).

Posted by JR on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 17:08pm

There are scores of artists who have been more influential and, quite frankly, "rocked" harder than Run-DMC. This was just another example of why this should be referred to as the "Popular Music Hall of Fame". They did a duet with Aerosmith...big deal!!! That's a reason to get inducted? They definitely perpetuated rap, but pushing it into the mainstream can be narrowed down to one song...

"Rapper's Delight"

This is one in a long list of inductees that I will never understand...



Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 16:01pm
--------------------------------------------------
Gitar - In all honesty, Run DMC is NOT the group you want to be picking on when it comes to rap in the Rock Hall. Don't get me wrong here - you are quite right when you say there are other groups that rock harder. It wasn't just "Walk this Way" alone. If you were to listen to songs like "Rock Box", "Beats to the Rhyme", etc. you'd see that they are in fact one rap act that really does cross the lines, far more so than some later ones.

I know where you're coming from - but on this particular group, I believe you may be way off base here...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 19:01pm

Okay...I'll give you the perpetuation part, now let's go to innovation...none that I can detect when it comes to rock. How about influence...maybe other rappers and groups like Faith No More and Limp Bizkit. I think they were instrumental in all that "street cred" movement in popular music, but once again, that has what to do with rock.

Am I missing something here? If we're going to talk about innovators, then we should go back to the aformentioned Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow (who Joseph Simmons DJ'd for for a while BEFORE Run-DMC), Gil Scott-Heron, heck, for that matter we could go as far back as Louis Jourdan.

I will agree that they were a big influence on HIP/HOP...which I feel is a genre all to itself and has very little to do with Rock & Roll. Now, if I have to associate rap with rock & roll, then I think rock took a wrong turn somewhere. I'm probably not the right person to talk to about it, because I think it's a regression to both rock and R&B/soul.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 19:46pm

Justin,

I agree with you about some of raps influence on rock, I don't necessarily like it but it's there. I agree with Gitarzan that rap has actually caused rock to regress. Because to me, two of the hardest things to do when writing a good song is to write a great melody and be able to sing it, which for the most part rap has neither, melody or singing. Even with a lot of the metal bands that are out there now, I hear a good riff, some hard rocking music and then some guy starts throwing up into the microphone, at least that is what it sounds like and that also lacks melody and singing and I hate it.

If the bands that are influence by rap and actually write, record and perform rock music at a high level for a substantial amount of time then they should be considered for induction, not the rap groups that influenced them, they don't even perform rock music, they perform rap.

Rap needs it's own hall of fame.

As long as it is called the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame then that is who should be inducted, bands that rock.

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 21:40pm

"Enough with the 50s/early 60s doo-wop groups already; no one under the age of grizzled old drooling farts CARES!"

I'm under 30, and I care.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 23:17pm

"Because to me, two of the hardest things to do when writing a good song is to write a great melody and be able to sing it, which for the most part rap has neither, melody or singing."

Rapping is melodic. It's like an instrumental with drums as the lead instrument. And rapping really isn't completely unlike singing. Normal talking and conversation simply does not sound like rapping. The change in pitch comes with different parts of emphasis where there's more energy, and the voice naturally goes higher in pitch. Besides, listen to Top 40 radio for any serious length of time, and you'll know that a lot of rap songs have choruses to them that are indeed sung. To me, rap is music that like other forms of music, has melody and rhythm, but gives more emphasis to the rhythmic aspects than the melodic.

As far as inducting rap artists... I figure it's ok as long as the contribution of the rap artists were important to the progression and evolution of rock. Again, despite our wishes, there is no "Outside Influences" category. The "Performer" category fills that need.

However, I do think that no rap artists that debuted in/after the early-to-mid 90s should be inducted (with a couple notable exceptions). Around/after that time, is when hip-hop and rap artists considered themselves separate and even superior to the culture of rock. The era of Jay-Z, Mystikal, etc. really separated rap from rock more than anything else. Grandmaster Flash, in his induction acceptance speech, talked about how rock and roll was so very much a part of what he did; Run-D.M.C. talked about how they used rock records cuz they were the best to sample, etc. They considered themselves to be part of the rock culture, even if not making rock themselves. In that kind of circumstance, I don't think it's a heresy to induct them if what they did fed back into rock in an important way, which they did.

I know, I'm in the minority here, but just my opinion.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 23:35pm

In re: "Rapper's Delight"... landmark record, and would be enough to get Sugarhill Gang in... they've been considered, we know. My only hang up with them is... it's a pretty wack song, really. For all the historical significance to it, it's not that great. If you listen to the 12+ minute version of it, some of the rhymes are just completely stupid (i.e. the story of eating at a friend's house, which has absolutely no point to it). And they overuse some of their major lines. The Sugarhill Gang themselves weren't even good rappers, but good producers.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 00:33am

I would love to see these bands inducted, because they are a few of my favorite bands. Especially Journey

Journey
Rush
Def Leppard
Chicago
Foreigner
Red Hot Chili Peppers

Posted by Michelle on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 01:51am

Pretty cool wish list, Michelle. I could acquiesce or agree to every act on that list.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 03:31am

""Enough with the 50s/early 60s doo-wop groups already; no one under the age of grizzled old drooling farts CARES!""

"I'm under 30, and I care."

I'm 21 and I care too. It is sad that a lot of you out there can't appreciate 50s R&B and 60s Soul (The Stax records are some of THE best records of the 60).

Posted by Jonny on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 05:24am

It is funny. Some people lash out at the HoF for being biased or unfair, and then post nominee picks that are composed entirely of white hard-guitar-rock bands of the mid to late 70s.

Posted by Jonny on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 05:29am

Any opinions about letting Serge Gainsbourg into the HOF. I mean if Kraftwerk a German band of just synthesizers and robotic vocals can be considered, I don't see the oddity of letting French Pop getting the same attention. Listen to Serge's collaberations with his then wife Jane Birkin, and tell me that there it's HOF material, even though it's sung in French.

Posted by danny on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 11:33am

"It is funny. Some people lash out at the HoF for being biased or unfair, and then post nominee picks that are composed entirely of white hard-guitar-rock bands of the mid to late 70s."

Posted by Jonny on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 05:29am

Excellent post!

Posted by Tom Lane on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 14:01pm

Well, I think the future nominees will be among the 250 eligible artists I ranked earlier this year. . . . ;)

Seriously, though, since things are wide open this year, I feel my top nine are just as valid a possibility as anybody else's top nine:

1. The Johnny Burnette Rock 'N' Roll Trio
2. Big Mama Thornton
3. Billy Ward & His Dominoes
4. John Mayall's Bluesbreakers
5. Link Wray
6. Gram Parsons
7. Dick Dale
8. Kraftwerk
9. King Crimson

That said, there are some things to consider.

Chic has been nominated every year. They will most likely continue to be nominated until they are inducted. Count Chic as one.

The Stooges seem to be nominated every other year on average. After the death of Ron Asheton, though, I'd hope they would nominate them every year until they are inducted. The Stooges are very probable.

Joel Peresman mentioned possibly a good prog band. Dave Marsh, who seems against most prog bands, very reluctantly conceded King Crimson in an interview. If all this means something, I see this as a flip of the coin between the very influential King Crimson and the very popular Yes.

Joel Peresman also mentioned people were concerned about old r&b acts being a concern of many people. Although I'd love to think they would (finally) nominate Big Mama Thornton, I'm guessing they will offer up acts who have been nominated before, like Johnny Ace, the "5" Royales, Joe Tex or the Chantels. If they were to nominate an old r&b act for the first time, I'd guess Percy Mayfield.

I wouldn't be surprised if we had one or two classic metal acts (now considered classic hard rock by fans who grew up with 80s metal). Alice Cooper and Deep Purple are strong possibilities this time.

Red Hot Chili Peppers remain the hottest newly eligible act, yet because their early works are not necessarily their best, they could be passed up.

Speaking of being passed up, Stevie Ray Vaughan could have been nominated last year. Perhaps he will be nominated this year.

As far as rap/hip-hop goes, unless there's a problem with counting his early releases as a national release, Ice-T should appear on the ballot. And despite Dave Marsh's objections, I'd guess the Beastie Boys stand a good chance of reappearing, too.

As for artists other than Percy Mayfield being nominated for the first time, I would pick Roxy Music and the Hollies as the most likely.

I'm also holding out for Kraftwerk, for their extensive influence on new wave, techno, rap, dance, alternative and electronica. And I stand firm on the credentials of the Johnny Burnette Rock 'N' Roll Trio.

So, I'm guessing there's a good chance the following artists will appear on this year's nominee ballot:

Alice Cooper
Beastie Boys
The Chantels
Chic
Deep Purple
The "5" Royales
The Hollies
Ice-T
Joe Tex
Johnny Ace
The Johnny Burnette Rock 'N' Roll Trio
King Crimson
Kraftwerk
Percy Mayfield
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Roxy Music
Stevie Ray Vaughan
The Stooges
Yes

I can't narrow it down any further than these nineteen acts, and to emphasize the point, it doesn't have to be any of these. It could be any eligible artist that the nominators admire. The field is wide open this year.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Sunday, 08.9.09 @ 16:56pm

Charles, I really admired (and agreed) with your 19 guesses for the Nominees. I am SURE at least a few will pop up.

The only one that suprised me is Ice-T. I just don't see it happening. Someone recently posted how the HoF at least seems to nomminate rap acts that may have had some influence in the development of Rock (Grandmaster Flash, Afrika Bambaataa, Run DMC, and Beastie Boys all arguably affected RnR), whereas I see Ice-T as the original 'gangsta rapper', but hardly having any affect on Rock

Posted by Jonny on Monday, 08.10.09 @ 02:02am

Regarding Ice-T and "gangsta rap", I think that one day the RRHOF is going to consider all different forms of rap for recognition.

Ice-T is certainly a future inductee in this respect. Others will include, in my opinion, Chuck D, Public Enemy, N.W.A, Dr. Dre, Tupac Shakur, The Notorious B.I.G. (Biggie Smalls, a.k.a. Christopher Wallace), Sean "Diddy" Combs, Ice Cube, Salt-N-Pepa, Queen Latifah, Eminem, Outkast, Nas, Kanye West. And those are off the top of my head. Heck, I would even include Will Smith on my consideration list.

For those now eligible, in addition to Ice-T, I certainly would have no problem of Afrika Bambaataa being inducted one day. The same goes for the Beastie Boys. Whether any of them get inducted for the RRHOF Class of 2010 is anyone's guess. I will say, though, that two of my five picks for induction, Donna Summer and Chic, were both influential in providing a precursor to rap and modern R-and-B that incorporated elements of these ideals. Chic, for instance, had as one of their bigger songs "Good Times", which was sampled on "Rapper's Delight." The original is a whole lot better.

The point I am atempting to make is that rap and hip-hop are going to be considered rather considerably in the years to come for the RRHOF. With Grandmaster Flash and Run-DMC already inducted, the rather evolutionary process of Rock and Popular Music will be addressed as equally important with other subgenres. I would not be suprised if there is at least one inductee per year that reflects this Rap asthetic.

Novelty Rap is not my cup of tea, though,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Monday, 08.10.09 @ 06:52am

Good thoughts, Lax26. I would include Slick Rick and Erik B. & Rakim to your list of future eligibile worthy rap acts. Along with Afrika Bambaataa, I'd like to see the Treacherous 3 inducted, not only because that's where Kool Moe Dee developed is influential rap delivery, but they're also the first rap act to combine rock and rap, even before Run-D.M.C., with "Body Rock". I have a feeling the nominators would prefer to induct Kool Moe Dee and let the Treacherous 3 be a footnote, which would be sad. I don't know about Big Daddy Kane.

And Jonny, Ice-T's credentials do not merely extend to being the pioneer of gangsta rap. After Run-D.M.C., Ice-T is the next major rap act to consistently fuse hard rock with rap.

I will say I have a problem with the Sugarhill Gang being inducted, and it has to do with the Cold Crush Brothers. When Sylvia Robinson went into that legendary pizza parlor and found Big Bank Hank rapping along with a Cold Crush Brothers tape, why didn't Big Bank Hank, the manager of the Cold Crush Brothers, offer up the act he was managing instead of himself? Now, some claim Big Bank Hank went to Grandmaster Caz and G.C. allowed him to take anything from his notebook of rhymes, but most claim Big Bank Hank simply ripped off the Cold Crush Brothers to create "Rapper's Delight." Yes, the bulk of "Rapper's Delight" is rhymes taken from the Cold Crush Brothers' raps. I know the East Coast scene is brutal, but that doesn't mean that type of behavior makes an act worthy of the R&RHoF. You tell me.

As for disco, I hope the more soulful acts such as Chic, Donna Summer and, yes, even Barry White will eventually be inducted. I am certain Chic will be inducted. Summer has only been nominated once, and White has yet to be nominated.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Monday, 08.10.09 @ 08:59am

Great posts from Charles and Lax there. I just really hope they're discerning about which hip-hop acts they want to induct. So far, they have been, but so far, the pickings have been pretty slim too.

I stated my case against the Sugarhill Gang... and I believe the Treacherous Three to be even more inane than SG... "The Body Rock" and "Love Rap" just plain turned me off to other Treach3 tracks.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 08.10.09 @ 18:15pm

One thing I know about Chic' (from personal experience) is that their music was a bit too sophisticated to be referred to as "disco", but I'm kind of on the fence as far as their possible nomination. I also feel that Nile Rodgers is making a case for himself to be nominated as a producer as well...he has a pretty long resume.

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.10.09 @ 18:34pm

Sophisticated or not, their music was a staple of the late '70s disco clubs scene. Their music was disco. I don't think "sophisticated disco" is necessarily a contradiction in terms, and might even apply that term to describe the GAP Band, too. Of course, the sophistication of Chic's instrumentation was counterbalanced by the insipidity of their lyrics. Remember, Git, it was you who coined the term "Chic Syndrome" on this site.

Chic... at this point, I'm ready to say "Fine, let's induct them so we can get over that hurdle and focus on some REALLY deserving acts!" I only know about five songs of theirs, but of those five, only one is any good ("Good Times"), imo. But I also defer to your testimony about the difficulty in playing Nile-style note-for-note.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 08.10.09 @ 19:31pm

Yep, I'm aware that I said that, and you're right...I'm talking primarily about the music (I don't pay a whole lot of attention to lyrics anyway...bad habit).

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.10.09 @ 20:17pm

I Feel Love, Hot Stuff, Love to Love You Baby, Last Dance, The Wanderer, On the Radio, the Bad Girls Album, Once upon a Time...

Donna Summer is the only artist of her era to have both great singles and albums. Yes she maybe disco (oh my god!) but her music still stands the test of time and there is no denying even from the metal fans that Donna is massively influential in the origins of modern dance, hip hop, new wave, rock fusion, and in pop generally.

If the rock 'n' roll hall of fame wasn't so biased to prog and rock bands of the early 70s she would have been inducted ages ago.

Posted by Rory on Tuesday, 08.11.09 @ 04:30am

Rory wrote:
"If the rock 'n' roll hall of fame wasn't so biased to prog and rock bands of the early 70s she would have been inducted ages ago."

You are wrong, do some research, there's no bias towards prog from this Rock Hall, Jann Wenner and his cronies hate it, Pink Floyd is the only true progressive rock band who ever got an induction way back in 1996, then vaguely Queen, at least Donna Summer has been nominated once while these artists never have!

1st year eligible in parenthesis...

Electric Light Orchestra-earlier albums (1996)
Genesis (1993)
The Moody Blues (1989)
Yes (1994)
Jethro Tull (1993)
Emerson, Lake & Palmer (1995)
King Crimson (1994)
Rush (1998)

Posted by Rick Vendl II on Tuesday, 08.11.09 @ 09:41am

I'd like to see Bob Babbitt, Joe Hunter and Earl Van Dyke inducted as sidemen. Now that the guys who backed Elvis are in, can we get some more of the guys responsible for the Motown sound in? I especially think Babbitt should be in.

Posted by TheHawv on Tuesday, 08.11.09 @ 14:28pm

Rick, in similarity to what I and others have discussed regarding rap, I think it is fair to say that art rock (or "prog" as itr is sometimes called) is yet another subgenre that, as the time grows nearer, will need to be considered as viable for relevant artists to be inducted. Much like rap and hip-hop, I would hope that there would be at least one inductee in that field per year.

Here, then, are my thoughts on the acts listed in these postings:

Electric Light Orchestra: a case can be made for these guys to be inducted. I would emphasize the period when Roy Wood and Bev Bevan were members, as it was their influence and importance that helped lead ELO to great success. Even better, I think The Move should be inducted: ELO's precursor, not only having Wood and Bevan but also Carl Wayne and Ace Kefford as influential members. It was, after all, their "Flowers In The Rain" that started BBC's Radio 1 transmissions. Yet, I am not so sure they will ever be inducted; this might be due to their Beatles-esque songs and performances. Granted, they were a lot better than other faux Beatles (ahem-Klaatu), and from "Discovery" onward they did attempt to create newer sounds in their music. I do not know, however, if an induction will ever take place.

The Moody Blues: they should have been inducted years ago. Really, they were not derided by fairweather fans and pundits; they could rock and be wistful, loving and playful in their songs; and as well, each of the band's albums were an event into of themselves. And not just the core seven Hayward-Lodge-Thomas era: evn when Patrick Moraz came in, the albums from beginning to end were played out near theatrically. I do not know, however, if the Moody Blues will be inducted: this might be due to a lack of proficient albums over the last decade or more.

Yes: this band needs to be inducted. Fine albums, great tours, and a consistency of excellence despite massive membership changes. Now, I do agree that even today, Anderson-Howe-Wakeman-Squire and either White or Bruford (toss up in that regard) remains the definitive Yes lineup; yet, it was still good with Rabin-Kaye and Banks. I think there is an outside chance of an induction for Yes in the near future. The only question, therefore,is when it might happen.

Jethro Tull: again, another act worthy of induction. Though I would emphasize the era that Mick Abrahams, Clive Bunker, and Dee Palmer were involved. One of the few bands of that time that could be folk-tinged in one song, and hard-rocking in yet another. Jarring, to say the least, but all the while entertaining. As well, quite good thematic approaches of social concerns on their albums. I am not certain that Tull will be inducted, however. The impact of the bamd lasted a shorter while than their contemporaries.

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer: Should be inducted. They definitely had influence beyond measure. Whether they will be inducted is another matter. Some of their works were pompous, in a good way. Still, though, pomposity is not the style of a good deal of listeners. There is also the knowledge that "Love Beach" really derailed their sucessful track record up to that time.

King Crimson: one of the more influential acts in their era needs to be inducted. I do think, one day, that such an induction will occur. The only question now is whom to be inducted as King Crimson, and perhaps even what Crimson is being inducted. I mean, at the very least, it will be Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, and Bill Bruford being inducted; it should be also all the other important figures of the band's history, including Greg Lake.

Rush: I certainly do hope that Rush gets inducted in as soon of a time as possible. In fact, I would not be suprised if they are nominated as finalists for the next upcoming induction classes. So, in effect, when there will be an induction for Rush is up to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation to decide.

This brings me to the last art rock act being discussed, Genesis. As you know, I would also include Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Mike Rutherford for all of their entire works. Of the art rock acts listed, I think that, when it is all said and done, Peter Gabriel, both his time with Genesis and on his own, is the only real guarantee for an induction to take place. A great deal of reasons and explanations have been given by myself and others. I do assume that Gabriel will be inducted in the RRHOF Class of 2010. Genesis, on its own and with its noted extensions, is something of a question mark in this regard.

In the end, there are only two art rock acts listed that I think are going to be inducted by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation: Rush and Peter Gabriel/Genesis. I assume the induction for Peter Gabriel in the Class of 2010, and I assume Rush will be nominated as a finalist for the Class of 2010; possibly an induction to follow. But in all fairness, art rock needs to be seriously considered on all fields. To put it succintly, Jann Wenner may have an influence on the procedings ahead, but his is not the only influence in voice and deeds being presented.

Every Good Act Deserves Favor,

lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Tuesday, 08.11.09 @ 19:52pm

lax26 wrote:
"Electric Light Orchestra: a case can be made for these guys to be inducted. I would emphasize the period when Roy Wood and Bev Bevan were members, as it was their influence and importance that helped lead ELO to great success."

I say again, what about the influence and importance of Jeff Lynne, Richard Tandy along with Kelly Groucutt?

"This brings me to the last art rock act being discussed, Genesis. As you know, I would also include Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Mike Rutherford for all of their entire works."

Same question for Phil Collins as their drummer, then later frontman!

Posted by Rick Vendl II on Tuesday, 08.11.09 @ 22:24pm

I don't understand why Lax has to feature certain members of a group when the whole group should be recognized for their accomplishments in the group. If the members solo careers where important enough to be honored then that is one thing, but he is dismissing certain people just because he thinks they are more important than the others and it is ridiculous.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 08:47am

Here are my picks:

Stevie Ray Vaughn & Double Trouble
War
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Rush
Donna Summer
Hollies
Beastie Boys
Alice Cooper
Five Satins

Early influence:

Crew Cuts

Non-performers:

Ted Templeman
Wolfman Jack

Sidemen:

Glen Campbell
Bill Withers
Sandy Nelson

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 09:06am

That's Lax26 for you. 'Eh' on the best band that he reviewed (ELO) and enthusiastic 'Yes' to lesser bands such as Moody Blues, Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, & ELP. I do think Rush is the equal of ELO, though.

Posted by Paul in KY on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 10:48am

Seeing the Moody Blues being called a "lesser" band than ELO is the best laugh I've had yet this month. Thanks, Paul.

Posted by classicrocker on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 12:02pm

classicrocker is correct, Moody Blues is certainly NOT a "lesser" band than ELO or than Lax's vaunted Genesis either.
Brian, Glen Campbell is a good choice for Sidemen, even though he was a star in his own right. He was involved with a lot of other artists projects. Bill Withers I don't think so, but I like him.

Posted by Worm on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 17:39pm

If Glen Campbell or Bill Withers are ever going to be inducted, they should goin the Performers Category. Of the two, I think Withers will go in before Campbell does. Again, both are well deserving.

Some of you fellow posters have asked why I emphasize certain people from a particular band than others. Well, how I look at it is as follows: can any bandmate have an influence in their fields and works from outside that one band they are in? That is to say, was their individual works just as influential and interesting, if perhaps not more, than their works with the band in question?

When I emphasized Roy Wood and Bev Bevan as the important fiugures of Electric Light Orchestra, I did so in knowledge of what they did before and after ELO. There was, of course, The Move, an influential band all to themselves. As well, Roy Wood has made some amazing, if not idiosyncratic, albums on his own or under his Wizzard moniker. Bev Bevan, whom admittedly only release a couple singles on his own, was one of the more intense drummers of his time. Heck, he even went on tour with Black Sabbath in 1983.

On the other hand, Jeff Lynne, Richard Tandy, and Kelly Groucutt did not have an influence of main significance outside of ELO. No doubt in my mind they were integral to ELO's success. Yet, Groucutt rarely wrote songs for ELO, and might have been a bit overshadowed by Lynne. Tandy was not exactly a full creative force within ELO. Lynne, while yes prior to ELO and The Move had the rather good act The Idle Race come before, and his numerous collaborations afterwards, and is a gifted singer-songwriter-producer-instrumentalist, did not exactly have an important field of songs and albums after ELO ended in 1986. His one solo album in colloboration with Richard Tandy, the 1990 album "Armchair Theatre", was rather dissapointing. Interestingly, "Zoom", an ELO album in name only, was better, though not by much. For myself, his collaborations, most notably with George Harrison, were rather great, though very little of it is due to Jeff Lynne.

Regarding the individual and collective works of people involved with Genesis, I also have my reasons. Peter Gabriel, in short, is the one eligible artist not yet inducted that I assume will be in the Class of 2010. Steve Hackett has had perhaps the most varied between sounds and compositions of any guitar great that shifts between rock and classical. Tony Banks is of the better keyboardists and songwriters in the fields of abstract ideals. Mike Rutherford, when I think about it, has made interesting works that are blunt in lyrical approach, and still interesting. Plus, his albums with Paul Carrack under the Mike + The Mechanics moniker have impressive atmospherics, and even lyrics that are dare I say disturbing ("Silent Running" an example.)

Phil Collins, though an excellent singer-songwriter-drummer and sometimes good keyboard player, is someone that I do not think excelled outside of Genesis. I know he sold over 100 million albums on his own, and has had massive tours, acting gigs, guest recordings, and what have you. But when I think about, his own stuff was not that special. Collins really was attempting to do poor imitations of other artists he was either influenced by or were his contemporaries. To put it another way, is Phil Collins an equal or greater artist on his own than Sir Elton John, one of his noted rivals? I would think not; it is rather obvious in my mind. Heck, the more I think about it, even his more progressive songs and works sounded eerily similar to the stuff his Genesis bandmates were doing. Big deal, you might say; well, yes, but here is something to ponder. "In The Air Tonight", a noted Phil Collins song on his own, has a gated drum reverb sound and pattern that is remeniscent on two tracks that Collins did the drumming on for Peter Gabriel's third solo album (melted face), "Intruder" and "Biko." I think those aforementioned Gabriel songs are more sonically and lyrically interesting than a great deal of Phil Collins' solo works of similar ideals. As well, for myself and many others, Gabriel's third solo album is much better than Collins' first solo album "Face Value", which in my opinion starts out good and then grows staller and less interesting.

Oh yes, I forgot: what about Brand X? Well, it is the same response I have of Phil Collins' solo works; not really that good to start with, and a poor imitation of influences and contemporaries. I think I said before that Brand X was jazz wank to the extreme. I know that Collins did some fine drumming, but I guess I would prefer Weather Report.

One other thing: Paul in KY, you really think that Yes and the Moddy Blues are somewhat lesser than ELO? I do not know about that. In my mind, they have always, from begiining to end, been great. Electric Light Orchestra, while great as well, did not have that huge of a consistency.

Not having left my life behind in a plastic bag,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 19:21pm

Actually, Campbell has a much better chance than Withers because besides being a solo artist of quality, he was also one of the best session guitarists in the business, having been a member of the famed "Wrecking Crew" for a time. His session work resume is like a "who's who" in popular music. He was also part of Phil Spector's "Wall of Sound". He was also a touring member of the Beach Boys for a while, filling in for Brian Wilson in the mid-60's and played guitar on "Pet Sounds".

His session work alone is more notable than a lot of the "sidemen" already inducted.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 20:41pm

Phil Collins belongs in with Genesis. And being completely honest I prefer his solo material over Gabriel's(just an opinion.)

IMO Genesis' had one of thier greatest efforts as a prog effort(The Lamb...) and thier commercial high point with Phil Collins.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 21:07pm

"greatest efforts as a prog effort"- me

Curse this unintentional redundancy of mine.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 21:11pm

"Phil Collins, though an excellent singer-songwriter-drummer and sometimes good keyboard player, is someone that I do not think excelled outside of Genesis."

huh? If the topic is regarding which members of Genesis should be inducted under Genesis, or which members of ELO should be inducted under ELO, then it shouldn't matter what some of the artists in those bands have done outside of their work with those bands.

Posted by Steve Z on Wednesday, 08.12.09 @ 21:53pm

classicrocker, glad I gave you a laugh. Don't think they're that much lesser (sure you feel better now).

Just my personal opinion. When you look at each band's songs, 'Moody Blues' have maybe 5 or 6 great songs, whereas ELO has 10 or 12. To me, it's that simple.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 06:21am

Hey, Rick, when you list disco acts and the R&RHoF, don't forget the second half of the Bee Gees heyday, from "Jive Talkin'" on, and don't forget the numerous times Chic was nominated. The Bee Gees induction and the nominations of Chic and Donna Summer means disco is far more popular with the nominators than progressive rock.

And lax26, you and most Americans may not be aware, but Jethro Tull has been and remains to this day one of the most popular and influential acts in India. When that hotel was bombed in Mumbai, guess whose concert schedule had to be rearranged because of security concerns? Ian Anderson wanted to play in Mumbai anyway because he cared, but the authorities convinced him and the promoter to change their plans. If you ask most of the newer Indian musicians over the last decade or so who influenced them, it's not surprising when they eventually start talking about Jethro Tull. Jethro Tull is to India what the Ventures are to Japan. And considering there are almost 1 billion people in India (maybe it's over 1 billion by now?), that's saying a whole lot.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 06:59am

Prog Acts:

Rush and Yes should get in (but won't, for reasons already beaten to death).

The rest simply aren't deserving. As talented as some of these players are, they simply never transcended their small subgenre.

I happen to like Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that if you're not a musician, it's mind-numbingly dull stuff. You could just as easily replace ELP with King Crimson or any of the other Prog acts.

For all the talent, they simply never learned enough restraint to let the songs resonate with anyone except for a limited audience.

That, ultimately, is the elephant in the room.

Posted by Egbdf Face on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 07:44am

Egbdf Face, I don't see how you can possibly argue that bands like Genesis & Yes never "transcended their small subgenre."

If anything I think they transcended too much.

How many 10's of millions of records did Genesis sell in the 80's?

Yes went top 5 with "Owner Of A Lonley Heart" (and also released a 12 inch disco version) and then unleashed "Big Generator" in 1987 which was widely played on the radio and saw videos played on MTV. Even ELP who never sold out to the extent that the others did ended up selling 10's of million records- way more that Leonard Cohen or The Velvet Underground. If I was in the music biz I'd gladly accept that "limited audience."

Posted by classicrocker on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 10:00am

Anybody ever heard of Paul freakin' Rodgers?????
Free or Bad co. Take your pick.

Posted by Shane on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 10:27am

Classicrocker:

Actually, I excluded Yes (and Rush) from that statement.

As far as Genesis goes, they made some extremly popular, extremely wretched music in the 80s, sure, but was it even still really the same band at that point?

"If I was in the music biz I'd gladly accept that "limited audience."" - sure. As would I. But that doesn't make them Hall Worthy. Fantastic band, sure, but Hall of Fame? No. Despite some rather dubious decisions by the committee, it's the "Hall of Fame," not the "Hall of Pretty Good."

Posted by Egbdf Face on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 10:30am

Paul Rogers?

Actually that's someone interesting to mull over.

Was Free good enough? No.

Was Bad Company? No.

Both are solid bands, but neither is so elite as to really deserve enshrinement.

Did Paul Rogers do anything particularly noteworthy as a solo artist? Not to my knowledge, but I could be missing something.

But yet... ...AMAZING voice. His work with Queen has been fantastic, if a bit of an odd choice.

Sideman? No. Because he's a front-man, not a side-man.

If they found some way to put him in, I woudn't get up in arms about it. Certainly lesser singers (ahem, Paul McCartney, Rod Stewart) have received the honors.

I'm just not sure how you make it happen.

Posted by Egbdf Face on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 10:35am

If Paul Rodgers doesn't qualify, the how does the Ramones, Blondie or Talking Heads make it? What is the criteria? Influence? Records sold? I guarantee Paul Rodgers/Free/Bad Co./Firm has sold more than the above and Free by themselves have been just as influential. All Right Now is one of the most played singles of all time. Look up any list of the top 10 singers of all time and he's top 5 in every one if not top 2 only second maybe to Robert Plant. We can agree to disagree.

Posted by Shane on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 11:37am

As for Blondie and the Talking Heads, that would be 2 of the "dubious decisions" I mentioned above. They wouldn't be in "my Hall," I promise you.

As for The Ramones, they pretty much invented punk - as much as anybody can invent anything in music anyway - so no, there's no way I'm buying into the idea that anything Paul Rogers did was anywhere near as influential as The Ramones.

Is he a great singer? YES! ABSOLUTELY! I think I already observed that.

(I'll also say that I consider him a run-of-the-mill lyricist, but I'll also freely admit that's a matter of taste - and that voice(!) made the most of the material presented.)

You mentioned Plant. I wouldn't put Robert Plant in as a soloist, either.

As for Rogers, like I said, how do you do it?

That's not a slight to his (considerable) talent - just a question of logistics. None of his bands were good enough to make it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of any Paul Rogers solo albums that are essential listening. And he's not a sideman.

So purely from a logistics standpoint, how do you suggest making it happen?

If you have any ideas, I'm listening.

Posted by Egbdf Face on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 12:12pm

"As for The Ramones, they pretty much invented punk"- Egbdf Face

Not really.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 12:28pm

Dude Man - don't cherry-pick the quote.

What I said was "As for The Ramones, they pretty much invented punk - as much as anybody can invent anything in music anyway"

And I stand by that statement.

Sure, you can nitpick all you want about various artists who did protopunk type things prior to The Ramones, and you can talk about artists (and producers in this case) who influenced The Ramones, and the folks who in turn influenced those people - but ultimately, to suggest that punk started somewhere other then The Ramones is pretty much talking out your @$$.

Posted by Egbdf Face on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 14:21pm

The Ramones are to punk what Black Sabbath are to metal(IMO). Not the first, but the most influencial in the genre.

I'm just saying thier are a lot of precursors to the genre that came before the Ramones. Before the Ramones were the New York Dolls, before the New York Dolls were Stooges, before the Stooges were The MC5, before the MC5 were the Velvet Underground, before the VU were the Seeds, and before the Seeds were the Kinks(all in terms of albums of course.) Punk roots were before the Ramones.

"to suggest that punk started somewhere other then The Ramones is pretty much talking out your @$$."- Egbdf Face

I take offensive to that.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 15:08pm

I agree with Egbdf Face,

Nobody put out and album of pure punk before the Ramones and nobody put out an album of pure heavy metal before Black Sabbath those genres started with those bands.

All this somebody did it before stuff is crap, you can go back to the begining of music or at least rock and roll and say somebody influenced somebody else or somebody did it first, but that is weak.

Until a band actually plays it and somebody refers to it as that, punk, heavy metal whatever it didn't exist before that. It takes balls to make a statement that this band started this genre and stand by it, and I respect that. All this "they weren't the first but the most influential" is a milk toast take, soft and limp.

And Black Sabbath was not a Christian group.

Have you heard the new album by "Heaven and Hell" it is an instant Heavy Metal classic!

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 15:50pm

http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/blacksabbath/albums/album/150404/review/5947023/mob_rules

Speaking of Heaven and Hell, SpaceTrucker, I have to reveal the reason why Ronnie James Dio and Viney Appice were not inducted with Sabbath. Rolling Stone hated Mob Rules.

Again to me Black Sabbath isn't the first heavy metal(and I am a freaking massive Sabbath fan, but they just are not the first.) In 1969 Led Zeppelin's first album came out, High Tide also in 1969, and a year before that Blue Cheer's first album out(even though Deep Purple also released an album in '68 they were a prog band at that time, they didn't go metal until In Rock.)

And SpaceTrucker you forget how bands artists were originally called metal bands who weren't. Bachman-Turner Overdrive, Pat Travers Band, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, Heart, Humble Pie, The Jeff Beck Group and many others were originally refered to as "heavy metal".

Black Sabbath were a Christian group.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 16:26pm

Actually, I think "punk rock" and all the bells and whistles that came with it can be traced back to the 50's...what the Ramones did was certainly nothing new, it was more of a "revival" than anything else...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 17:06pm

As for Rogers, like I said, how do you do it?

That's not a slight to his (considerable) talent - just a question of logistics. None of his bands were good enough to make it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of any Paul Rogers solo albums that are essential listening. And he's not a sideman.

So purely from a logistics standpoint, how do you suggest making it happen?

If you have any ideas, I'm listening.

Posted by Egbdf Face on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 12:12pm
--------------------------------------------------
The problem is that a gap exists within the Hall's nominating procedures. The Hall assumes an either/or stance regarding bands - you're either an integral part of a band or you are a sideman - no room for a third option. Soloists are treated as is - your solo career, as it stands.

What needs to happen is a third kind of induction, based around a performers collective efforts. Something like that happened last year w/Jeff Beck. Rogers definitely fits this bill. He runs the 70's from end-to-end ("All Right Now" to "Rock & Roll Fantasy") and there's a lot of good stuff in-between. He does deserve induction, even if they feel the bands he played with do not.

On a more modern level, I've seen the same thing regarding Chris Cornell. Some say Soundgarden doesn't cut the mustard, & Audioslave wasn't around long enough. Put it all together, + his solo career, and you've the same thing as Rodgers - a veteran w/massive success, but no one defining part.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 17:39pm

Chicago.

It's time for Jann to get over it and put them in.

Posted by Mitch on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 18:35pm

You would think that when a Rock Band has been kick'n it for 39 years that they would deserve to be in, if not for the sake of just being plain respectfull.
URIAH HEEP has paid their dues, now lets pay our respects. JUST DO IT and BE DONE WITH IT !!!!!!!

Posted by Mike on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 20:14pm

Egdbf face, I just don't agree.

"Transcend their genre?" Is that a requirement to be inducted? Since when?

That said, if "transcend their genre" means reaching out beyond the faithful, then what about Jethro Tull and "Aqualung", "Locomotive Breath" or "Skating Away"? What about Emerson, Lake & Palmer and the entire "Brain Salad Surgery" album? What about King Crimson and "21st Century Schizoid Man"? And you can rag on the Phil Collins' Genesis and there'd be a lot I'd agree with, but "That's All" is still a great song.

But even more than these points, your post contains no objective reasons for denying Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Jethro Tull, King Crimson or Genesis a place on the ballot, and sometimes your reasons are just wrong. "The rest simply aren't deserving." Oh, yeah, why? "As talented as some of these players are, they simply never transcended their small subgenre." See above, and their subgenre is hardly small, either in number of acts or number of fans. ". . .I'm not ignorant to the fact that if you're not a musician, it's mind-numbingly dull stuff." Hey, I could rag on ELP all day long for recording "Pictures. . ." (What were you thinking of??!!), but there are plenty of non-musicians very much into their other works, especially "Brain Salad Surgery" and even the underrated "Tarkus". "You could just as easily replace ELP with King Crimson or any of the other Prog acts." And to this I can easily respond the same way I did about what you said about ELP. "For all the talent, they simply never learned enough restraint to let the songs resonate with anyone except for a limited audience." Uh, millions of fans who bought their albums, just about all of these acts still tour 40 YEARS LATER, three of which (Yes, Moody Blues and Jethro Tull) seem to keep on touring no matter what. . .dude, what's your definition of "limited audience"?

Do you understand that there has yet to be one single act that has sold enough copies of a single album that half the people in the U.S. owns one? Not even a quarter! Not even a tenth! Everybody has a limited audience! So, using that logic, if you're consistent, NO ONE SHOULD BE INDUCTED, BECAUSE EVERYONE PLAYS TO A LIMITED AUDIENCE!!! Music is that personal!

In summary, your dispersions on prog worthiness of being in the R&RHoF reflects more a preference than it does an honest appraisal of their worthiness. It doesn't consider other people's preferences beyond yours, it doesn't consider the act's influence among other acts, it isn't historically accurate, it isn't factually accurate, it just makes me want to spin "Elephant Talk" by King Crimson as an appropriate response.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Thursday, 08.13.09 @ 21:02pm

To Charles Crossley, Jr,
You nailed it on the issue of prog rock. I'm 19 years old, and I adore all the artistic groups such as Jethro Tull(whom I saw in concert), King Crimson, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Electric Light Orchestra, Moody Blues, Procol Harum, Yes to name a few...
I detest the fact that rap which consists of a drum beat, and yelling can get into the hall, but prog rock which last I heard cocsists of guitar, bass, drum, and keyboard is snubbed.
I say that Jann Wenner should be canned from the committee so that more deserving acts that actually DEFINE the meaning of Rock and Roll should get their due
And Charlie I'd just like to say that we should have more fans like you protesting your tastes

Posted by danny on Friday, 08.14.09 @ 08:28am

The Smiths
The Cure
Depeche Mode

Posted by ronnie on Friday, 08.14.09 @ 09:30am

Reading these comments is to say the least, entertaining. I'm really enjoying it. Gotta admit there's a lot of good stuff said...

I already made my 9, but since they do a Bubbling Under, and a lot here have, too, I'll make a similar list of "If I'm wrong, here's why":


1) Bon Jovi: Jon's friends with Jann, and they could be the "overlooked act from last year". I think the outcry for SRV is a bit more prominent, but it's possible.

2) Red Hot Chili Peppers: I said it before, I think those who want the Stooges in will try to keep RHCP off the ballot this year, because any other guitar-driven band on the ballot is gonna sink the Stooges' chance. But that may be like trying to hold the ocean back with a broom.

3) Donna Summer: nominated before, and if there's not enough sympathy/recognition in the room for Janet, it may be Donna's name we see.

4) Chantels: Julien made a great case. I even took a step back and said, "He may be right about them." I'm still sticking by the "5" Royales though just because they're an act where if they don't get enough votes, they're an easier sell to the Early Influence sub-committee, not so much with the Chantels.

5) Shangri-Las: Don't ask why. I just had one of those flashes where I found myself saying, "Y'know, I think they've got a shot this year." Call it more of a premonition than anything else, but I'm also willing to admit that I have no good reason for mentioning them.

6) War: I figure they may give them another try before putting them back in the bottom of the pile.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.14.09 @ 23:41pm

The Miracles.

2009 marks the 50th Anniversary of Motown Records. It would be appropriate if the label's first group got in.
Also, they just got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame back in March. Might as well make it 2 for 2.
Also,I think that "The Maestro" Barry White should get in, as well as The Marvelettes.

Posted by Bill G. on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 01:29am

I suppose now would be the best time to reveal my predictions for the nine finalists to be announced in September.

Considering the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is celebrating their 25th (or so) anniversary, it may be possible that the finalists are extended to 18, and perhaps the inductees in the Performers category will be extended to 10. As of this writing, though, I will assume five inductees and nine finalists.

I have already mentioned my inferences for who will be inducted in the Class of 2010: Peter Gabriel, The Eurythmics, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam), Donna Summer, and Chic. Now then, the other four finalists will be the following.

Stevie Ray Vaughan: a posthumous recognition, considering Vaughan passed away in 1990. At some point, the RRHOF will need to induct SRV, perhaps even as early as this coming induction.

Janet Jackson: just as equally influential and proficient as her brothers, and just as sucessful on her own as Michael was. The more harder funk and R-and-B tinged of the Jackson siblings, in my opinion.

The Hollies: well, Graham Nash is inducted; same goes for David Crosby, Stephen Stills, Neil Young, The Byrds, and Buffalo Springfield. May as well complete the full CSNY tree and have The Hollies be considered. As I mentioned before, there was a noted amount of great works even after Nash left.

Rush: why this has not yet occured I am baffled in my response. I do think, however, that the rest of the Nomination Committee will ignore Dave Marsh's insistence on not considering Rush, and rightly will put them on the finalists ballot.

Now, if in consideration of the 25th (or so) anniversary of the RRHOF it is decided that 10 are to be inducted, then the nine I have just mention in full will be inducted. Were I to round out a tenth spot, I would consider the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Highly consistent, a great act live, and some of the more interesting hybrids of hard rock and funk imagineable.

Well, those are the predictions and inferences for the Class of 2010. Do feel free to comment on this, if you so choose. As a whole, these artists have had influential works that are great and lasting. Much better than some of those acts you see in those Time-Life infomercials.

Waiting for your responses,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 05:57am

Egbdf Face,
I would be satisfied if they just put Free in and be done with it. Rodgers at least deserves that. They formed in '68 and was playing the Isle of Wight in '70, way before a lot of the airheads in the hall were even born. Not bad in only two years. So, based on his influence as a singer for 41 years and Free's contribution to music, do it that way. Plus, I think Kossoff influenced some players as well.

Posted by Shane on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 06:59am

Lax, I like your four lose-outs better than your 5 picks, and I feel they have a better chance, too.

Shane, I'd say go with Bad Company, rather than Free, but that's just my opinion.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 09:15am

(redirected- by C Green:)
The Miracles are long, long, long, overdue for induction. It's an embarassment on behalf of the RRHOF and their nomination and voting committee. I hope the original Miracles (Claudette, Smokey, Bobby, & Pete) (and Marv,) will live to receive this honor that they truly deserve. Original member Ron White is deceased. For some of us Miracles and Motown fans the honor will be bitter sweet as its taken too long, and too little acceptable reason of why not, to wait for what? An induction from a questionable orgranization? That's my personal opinion. INDUCT THE MIRACLES!!! Finally!

Posted by C. Green on Friday, 07.24.09 @ 20:05pm

Posted by Bill G. on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 09:58am

Adding to my list
The Fireballs
I really think they should be in
one of the first Surf song 1959 {years before Dick or the Surfaris } "Torquay"


First fuzz box sound Sugar Shack {GREAT SONG}

and they are great players

ps they also work on the Buddy Holly 'apartment tapes"
heck first band to give homage to a wineo "Bottle of Wine"
hits from 59-69 now that says a lot!!!



SO YES

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 13:41pm

Stevie Ray Vaughan: a posthumous recognition, considering Vaughan passed away in 1990. At some point, the RRHOF will need to induct SRV, perhaps even as early as this coming induction.


waitng for your responses,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 05:57a

I like your views accept for SRV I would not be surprised if he did get in.. Heck, Madonna ,U2 Ventures , Percy Sledge and a few others are in so why not..He is better than them

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 16:00pm

Ok... Madonna and Percy Sledge have been widely bashed as inductees here, and while I heavily disagree with your hatred of the Ventures, I at least recognize your issue with them being primarily cover artists, but hating U2? What bug have you got up your behind against U2? Bono's politics? I mean, they were about the most original band of the 80s and even well into the 90s. Innovative and influential. Their music was definitely rock'n'roll.... I mean if you don't like their music, that's one thing, but to say they were a bad choice to induct into the Hall? WTF?

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.15.09 @ 16:15pm

WhooaaH! before we give well deserved spots to some of the indie & college bands from the 80's, let's first induct those who came before them and influenced their music and in some cases created genres of their own. Artists like, the stooges, Chicago, Dire Straits, Rush, Alice Cooper, Kingston Trio, Joan baez, Carole King, Kool & the Gang, Abba. I personally would like to see The Chile Peppers, SRV, The Smiths, The replacements, and Megadeth, but i know that ain't gonna happen

Posted by Fat Daddy on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 05:00am

Bon Jovi - over 120 million albums sold, 25 years of touring sold out arenas and stadiums in over 50 countries. Good people who give back in a big way to those less unfortunate. Bon Jovi uses their resources to help others.

Posted by Brad on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 07:08am

It's nice that they do charity work, I wish more of them did. We're all aware that they sold out big arenas and sold millions of records. But besides perpetuating Rock & Roll (which would simply require playing it), how were they influential or innovative?

If you say Jon Bon Jovi is the greatest singer or Richie Sambora is the greatest guitarist, I will promptly win awards for projectile vomiting!!!

Can't you people just like someone without thinking they belong in the Hall of Fame...???

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 08:09am

Fat Daddy-
Carole King was inducted (with Gerry Goffin) in 1990 in the "non-Performer" category. In other words for her songwriting. It looks like the Hall will keep her in as that, and not nominate her as a solo act. She's never been nominated since. As for your mention of Kool & The Gang, a big yes vote from me.

Posted by Tom Lane on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 09:30am

Kool & the Gang should've been inducted before Parliament! Like I've said here before, they're not all about "Ladie's Night" and "Celebration". Check out "Funky Stuff", Hollywood Swinging", "Jungle Boogie", and of course "Summer Madness"...one of the best slow jams ever!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 09:35am

I basically agree with you Fat Daddy, but knowing the hall they will most likely either A.) forget about those older bands or B.) have a mix of both the new and old bands. Remember, they're focused on selling tickets, so who do you think they'd rather go for, Red Hot Chili Peppers or the Kingston Trio (both of whom I believe merit induction.)

Posted by Steve Z on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 09:52am

"Can't you people just like someone without thinking they belong in the Hall of Fame"...???

Gitarzan

Gitarzan,

That is a huge statement that really hit home with me. Is it directed at us or the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee?
Because it definitely applies to both. You want us to adhere to the criteria that the hall has laid out, when they don't even do it themselves. There are many cases (and I am sure this is debatable) of bands with zero innovation or influence, of course perpetuation is a stupid criteria that have been inducted. I believe somehow popularity (and I mean huge world wide popularity) and longevity should be a part of the criteria.

As some of us have said in the past, innovation is very rare in rock music and wrongfully attached to many unworthy bands and artists. I think many times re-invention is closer to the truth. And influence is alot of the time, but not always, an opinion. And you heard my take on perpetuation. That leaves only the criteria of "first release 25 years or more" as a rock solid criteria.

If enough people believe a band to be one the greatest ever, how is that debatable? But then the people have no say in this. It's Jann Wenner and his cronies private club, and that sucks!

Power to the Peoples Rock Legends Hall of Fame!

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Sunday, 08.16.09 @ 12:07pm

I would like to nominate Willy Deville for induction into the Rock~n~Roll Hall of Fame for 2010. Started out in the group "Mink Deville',in the 70's, an artist who truly has been quite versatile singing in many genres. Was nominated for an Academy Award for his rendition of 'A Storybook Love' from the movie 'A Princess Bride'. A shame however that he was more famous abroad than in America. Please consider him in your discussions.
He passed away this past August from cancer. and it would be a tribute to his memory.
Respectfully,
Mary Jacobs

Posted by Mary Jacobs on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 00:41am

Hey guys !!!! What about legendary producer Phil Ramone... Maybe he'll finally get in this year.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 08:15am

guys !!!! What about legendary producer Phil Ramone... Maybe he'll finally get in this year.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 08:15am

Good choice
Someone also mentioned Wolfman Jack another good idea

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 09:05am

I can't name any groups off the top of my head, but over the last ten years, I can't count the number of times an act has slipped into a guitar driven part of their song where I reacted, "That sounds like U2." Of course, I mean from their "Joshua Tree" era. They are extremely influential, now almost to the point of being as cliche as 70s Black Sabbath became when all the hard rock bands co-opted their sound in the 80s.

Going back to the "small" subgenre of prog rock, that statement still burns me up. For the last twelve years, I've been providing counter-arguments to what rock critics and others had been saying about prog. For the record, there are probably thousands of bands who have and, in many case, still do record prog. The authoritative listing is the online Gibraltar Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock (http://www.gepr.net/). Every act that is remotely associated with prog is listed here. It is so thorough, even Chet Atkins is listed there, although only because of his country fusion album "Stay Tuned."

Of the main bands associated with prog, you have Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, the Moody Blues, Jethro Tull, Emerson, Lake & Palmer, Can, Gong, Caravan, Soft Machine, Renaissance, Curved Air, Procol Harum, Gentle Giant, Hawkwind, Focus, The Nice, Nektar, Barclay James Harvest, Kevin Ayers, Man, Van Der Graaf Generator, Kansas, Mike Oldfield, Adrian Belew, Alan Parsons Project, Colosseum, Electric Light Orchestra, Rush, Marillion. Around the time of Marillion, prog splinters and becomes influential on 80s metal (Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden), prog metal (Queensryche, Dream Theater(, neoprog (Pendragon), alternative (Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Tool) and, starting in the 90s, resurrects as a subgenre with groups such as Spock's Beard, Crack The Sky, the Flower Kings, Porcupine Tree, the Flaming Lips and, more recently, the Fiery Furnaces, the Fire Theft, the Mars Volta, Coheed and Cambria, Battles, the Decemberists, Mastodon, Opeth, Midlake and MUSE.

This list is not exhaustive, and I am not saying all nor most nor even many of these acts deserve to be inducted into the R&RHoF. Only a few deserve induction, and that's the point. To dismiss the fact that a few deserve induction because someone fallaciously states that the subgenre is "small" is ridiculous going against the facts. It's a huge subgenre.

One other person asked me about rap. It's a little too late to worry about putting the cart before the horse, or else this year's nominee list will look something like Big Mama Thornton, Junior Parker, Johnny Ace, Percy Mayfield, Lee Dorsey, Esther Phillips aka Little Esther, Son House, Roy Brown and Billy Ward & His Dominoes, if you're going to be consistent. Rap, like prog, descends from the very music Alan Freed called rock & roll, what we would call r&b and doo wop today, and so rap deserves induction every bit as much as prog. As far as who should go in first and such, we're just going to have to do the best we can at this point. There are way too many deserving acts to go by that rule anymore.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 09:43am

Charles Crossley, Jr. wrote

Very well said

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 10:57am

"Rap, like prog, descends from the very music Alan Freed called rock & roll, what we would call r&b and doo wop today, and so rap deserves induction every bit as much as prog."
Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 09:43am
--------------------------------------------
I appreciate yor essay on the topic of progressive rock. But at the end you attached the above non-sequitur statement re rap, and I disagree with that. Prog really is a legitimate offshoot of rock, and indeed, it extends the envelope.

But rap, or hip-hop (IMO) is for the most part overwriting a beat with lyrics. Musically it is seldom original. Most cases the backbeat is sampled (ripped off) for other music. To the extent that hip-hop is musical, it might just as well be called jazz as rock. Rappers don't sing, they speak rythmically. A live band is seldom necessary. The RHOF is a music museum is it not? Beastie Boys did a rap about crashing the RHOF, but they thought they were being humorous?!! Its still a joke to me.

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 15:14pm

Charles, you wrote a well-endowned essay on the importance art rock, or prog as it is ometimes called.

There are some acts in your listing that I am not interested in. For instance, I have already mentioned my intention to eat my hat should Alan Parsons Project ever be inducted. Also, Van Der Graaf Generator is rather awful: yet Peter Hammill on his own works quite well. And when I think of Colliseum I and II, I think of Andrew Lloyd-Webber's composition "Variations". Yet, all the other acts should join Pink Floyd in being inducted into the RRHOF.

Yet, with the exception of Peter Gabriel likely to be inducted in the Class of 2010, Rush not that far in eventual induction, and a great deal of the alternative rock acts, it does not appear to be certain that any of the other art rock greats will be inducted any time soon. Now, they need to be inducted; heck, Yes, The Moody Blues, King Crimson, Kansas, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, amongst others should have been inducted years ago. But instead, that does not happen, due to the rather benign prejudices of certain people on the Nominating Committee.

I do think, however, that a sea change has occured. Maybe it is the time to get the recognition of art rock be known by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame after effectively inducting the legends of the 1950s and 1960s. I mean, who would be next from that era? The Kingsmen? Sam the Sham and the Pharoas? The Sufaris? And those are just one-hit wonder bands of the early-to-middle 1960s. Plus, it is very difficult to argue against inducting Peter Gabriel, Genesis, Rush, Yes, amongst others when these artists have gone beyond their comfort zones in sounds and ideals.

On a side note, I am rather intrigued by the possibility of Mike Oldfield being considered. He certainly is one of the best in his fields. Yet, i do wonder this quandary: if we are to righty consider Mike Oldfield, should we also consider in the near future Vangelis? Perhaps Jean Michel Jarre? Maybe even Tangerine Dream? Okay, Oldfield is more into guitar based works and folk-pop, but his longer compositionsdo evoke similarities, eh?

By the way, Telarock, you are quite wrong regarding your dismissal of Rap and Hip-hop as being different from music. It is not. You can expect to see more hip-hop and rap artists being inducted in the near future. Just be understanding that guys like Tupac Shakur and Outkast will be in. Wheras the novelty rappers like the Fat Boys and Rob Base will not be inducted.

Anyway, back to art rock. The five artists I think will be inducted in the RRHOF Class of 2010, and that does include Peter Gabriel, all have a rather artier or progressive influence in their approaches. The same could be said for any artist, yet the five I have discussed before appear more overt in these fashions.

Well, here is to hoping that the art rock and rap subgenres get their days and perhaps years in the inductions to come. Two different forms of popular music, yet amongst the most influential artists and singers-songwriters of our times to come from those fields. It certainly beats Three Dog Night any day of the week.

Pardon my zingers,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 19:10pm

"By the way, Telarock, you are quite wrong regarding your dismissal of Rap and Hip-hop as being different from music. It is not." - Lax26
----------------------------------------------
Well, Lax, guess we all have an opinion. And you might be right about 2Pac and Outkast and other rap artists getting inducted ... I hope not, but you might be right. I was hoping hip-hop would be a passing fad, would just go out of style like disco did. But now, IF I was going to consider any rappers, it would be Wu Tang Clan (most notably Method Man). But they are never discussed here. They are/were "real" artists, not some phoney "gangstas", and their stuff is streetedge and original (at least to me).

But now, are you putting all this under "art rock"? Why are prog rock and hip-hop being discussed together in the same thrread?

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 19:47pm

Telarock, actually those beats you dismiss on rap tracks tie back to the funk and soul of the 70s which goes all the way back to the r&b Alan Freed played. Even the talking over these beats has precedent in the works of artists such as Andre Williams, the Last Poets and U-Roy, not to mention the sermonizing that gospel groups would do that Joe Tex brought into sould by adapting it to sermonizing about relationships.

I don't recall the Beastie Boys rapping about crashing the R&RHoF, but Run-D.M.C. did, and they were inducted this year.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 20:52pm

Well, lax26, thanks for the praises. Understand, though, like I said in that post, that I feel "only a few [of all those prog and prog-influenced acts I listed] deserve induction. . . ."

It's interesting you hit on Van der Graaf Generator, because Rolling Stone identifies that group as having an influence on David Bowie and Queen. I'd like to hear more about that myself.

Speaking of Bowie and Queen, that post of mine didn't get into acts contemporary to those early prog acts of the 70s, act that were influenced by prog. Bowie, Queen, Foreigner, Boston, Journey and Styx all owe a debt to prog. Even Magazine added art rock keyboards to punk. Prog is not without its influence.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Monday, 08.17.09 @ 21:58pm

You see guys... If you want to get in the RRHOF all you have to do is be a "Man". Plain and simple.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 13:35pm

"Telarock, actually those beats you dismiss on rap tracks tie back to the funk and soul of the 70s which goes all the way back to the r&b Alan Freed played." - Charles Crossely, Jr.
-----------------------------------------
Okay, but that is a tenuous(?) argument for rap in any case -- sampling tracks, no matter their roots, and overlaying them with rimes -- it may be art, but it is not IMO rock museum quality music. Actually, you are right, it was Run DMC not Beastie Boys (my bad) re crashing the RHOF.

There are some hip-hop artists, e.g., Lauren Hill who would merit consideration. Also, as I said before, I do like Method Man - here's a favorit video for "Bring da Pain":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe1Xzxph5is
This rocks. I dont dismisss the genre entirely.

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 13:47pm

I still maintain that if you hold sampling to be an artform in itself, or at least something that has helped with the culmination of a whole vast new world of artistic songs/tracks (particularly in rap, but also a bit in rock now too), then you should induct Buchanan And Goodman, who did it first, went to court for the right to sample, and won when the judge ruled that it was a new form of art.

But because they were a novelty act, they will never get the recognition they deserve.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 16:56pm

"I still maintain that if you hold sampling to be an artform in itself ..." - Philip
-------------------------------------
O No, Philip!!! Have you lost yor mind?

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 17:11pm

Hey! I said "if".. IF!!

But yes, I do consider it to be an artform. It's like hanging Jackson Pollock's work upside-down... he just considered it another way of looking at it.

But whether or not you consider it an artform it was 1) innovative and eventually proved 2) influential, not to mention people were going out and finding the original records to find the spot that was sampled, which 3) helped contribute to the perpetuation of rock'n'roll.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 17:53pm

Why oh why do people keep mentioning commercial success stats, like that determiens who is considered for and who gets into the HOF? At that rate, Nickelback will be a shoo-in upon eligibility, right? Hardly. lol Bon Jovi followed bands like Journey and Foreigner, and has a lot moe in common with them than an R.E.M. or U2, two bands that have received mass accolades (unlike Bon Jovi).

Posted by JR on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 21:07pm

I will make 5 predictions for the 2010 Induction.
Maybe these are just people I believe should be in.

1. Red Hot Chilli Peppers - The obvious first ballot choice this year. Fused punk with funk to create some of greatest albums of the past 25 years. Oh by the way they are pretty popular.

2. Television - Probably the most talented and respected musicians to come from the New York Punk scene.

3. New Order / Joy Division - Rock and roll music with electronica. Can't believe Madonna got in before these guys.

4. Stevie Ray Vaughn - Might just be the greatest Rock guitarist ever.

5. Iggy Pop / Iggy Pop & the Stooges - Just listen to Lust for Life or Raw Power.

6. Lou Reed - Rock & Roll blasphemy he hasn't been put in as a solo artist.

7. Ben E. King - 3 Words - Stand By Me

Posted by Bob Szankowski on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 22:30pm

I will make 5 predictions for the 2010 Induction.
Maybe these are just people I believe should be in.
Posted by Bob Szankowski on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 22:30pm



well you have 7 names LOL
safety in numbers huh...LOL

Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 23:27pm

It's too late. What RUSH has done for music is so off the chart, that trying to make up for it now or in the future, would be a joke. I would like to see one band in the hall play a current or classic RUSH song. I bet no one could come close to RUSH'S abilities. But apearetly it's not about good musicianship, longevity, fan base, consecutive gold albums or each member winning polls of the best in their instrument numerous times over a thirtyfive year span. I guess great bands only last five to ten years. Like Alex Lifeson said," I could care less, look who is in and who is'nt, it's a joke."

Posted by tom fox on Tuesday, 08.18.09 @ 23:38pm

I hate to be the first to reply, but I forgot to mention the influences to music RUSH has had. Dream Theater, Matallica, Rage Against The Machine, Queensryche, Primus and smashing pumkins, to name a few. About an earler commit I made they are behind only The Beatles, The Stones and Areosmith for the most consecutive gold albums of all time. So take that for what it is worth, well at least for them they have made a living of the likes only three other bands in history have made. So your right hall of fame crew they suck.

Posted by Tom Fox on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 01:07am

I think the musicians/Band should be get a place in the Rock and Roll Hall of 2010:

1. Peter Gabriel

2. Genesis

3. Bon Jovi

4. Bryan Adams

5. Beastie Boys

In regards

Mario

Posted by Mario on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 02:59am

I go away for a few weeks, comeback and see someone is advocating Bon Jovi and Bryan Adams for the same induction.


I don't feel very well.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 03:47am

PICK 9 NOMINEES AND 5 INDUCTEES!
Let me make like a turtle and stick my neck out here:
=============================================
*R.H.C.P. - popular demand will not let them be denied. 7 Grammys speak loud also.
---------------------------------------------
*S.R.V. - a must. 6 Grammys say he was "Best" in blues.
---------------------------------------------
*War - they missed last year, but put them on ballot again, please.
---------------------------------------------
*Donna Summer - also missed last year. "Hot Stuff", shes hot enuff to get in.
---------------------------------------------
The Hollies - "He Aint Heavy", major players of the Brit invasion, overlooked/overdue.
---------------------------------------------
Moody Blues - "Days of Future Passed", early & best prog rock group, overlooked/overdue.
---------------------------------------------
Pat Benatar - "We Belong", she belongs, give her a shot, now is as good a time as ever.
---------------------------------------------
*Beastie Boys - "You Gotta Fight", I would fight against them, but they have many big pushers.
---------------------------------------------
The Commodores - group was a vehicle for Lionel Richie, and he is an "Easy" choice.
---------------------------------------------
* my 5 picks for induction

My "Wish" List:
=============================================
Jethro Tull - mysterious (to me) omission
Chicago - thru the Terry Kath years only
Neil Diamond - the "silence" of his omission is deafening
Dick Dale - deserving pioneer of surf rock guitar
Dire Straits - easy to listen to, but not "soft" rock
Grand Funk R.R. - huge in early 70s, the American Cream
Pointer Sisters - just a wish, but they do belong
Yes - Moody Blues goes first, then "Roundabout" Yes
=============================================
Non-Performers/Sidemen:
Barry Mann & Cynthia Weil - tons of great rock & roll songs
Russ Ballard - many great rock songs
Glenn Campbell - major guitar "sessionist"

Posted by Telarock on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 13:06pm

Motley Crue

Posted by John on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 13:19pm

Sorry, Dameon. At least I gave a reason for why I think Bon Jovi is a solid "Bubbling Under" choice. Bryan Adams... it's scary, but it's possible he may one day get in. Just not this year, and probably not in the next 10 years either.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 16:29pm

If Glen Campbell does get inducted one day, it will be in the Performers category. In my opinion, it is a bit insulting considering Campbell a sideman.

Philip, there are worse acts to consider than Bryan Adams. For one thing, Adams has been consistent in his works for well over 30-odd years now. I do agree that inducting Bryan Adams may be a bit of a stretch, yet I would certainly prefer Adams to crappier artists like Double. The same goes for Bon Jovi, although I have never been much of a huge fan of them; they are alright, yet a tad overrated.

Telarock, I would rather prefer inducting Lionel Richie as opposed to The Commodores. In many respects, Lionel Richie WAS the Commodores; they were still okay after he left, but it just was not as good. Richie, on the other hand, eclipsed his Commodore years easily with his influential and quite varied sucessful accomplishments.

Mario, of your five picks, I will say that all of them may get inducted one day, including the Beastie Boys whom I am rather not into campaigning as much for. Ofthe five, the one that will, I infer, will be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2010 is Peter Gabriel. Genesis, and I would include the individual works of Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Mike Rutherford would certainly be great for the same induction class. Yet, as I have mentioned before, of all the branches of the Genesis tree, Peter Gabriel was the most influential amongst equals. An induction for Peter Gabriel in his own write will suffice.

Those are some inferences and opinions I have. I am just really baffled at Glen Campbell being thought of as a sideman. Okay, an induction in any field is an induction in full; yet Campbell was a whole heck of a lot more than a sideman. I mean, would we think of Ringo Starr, for example, as a sideman, knowing I erroneously considered such an idea last year?

Guess the hit song Double had,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 19:33pm

Lax26...I would be surprised if Campbell gets inducted as anything EXCEPT a sideman, and it's not that he wasn't a great performer, because he was. It's because he was that good as a sideman. I mean, we're talking "legendary" status here. He is just an incredible guitarist.

It takes great versatility to be a great sideman...and Campbell can play about anything with amazing ease. There is certainly no shame in being known as a great sideman...go ask Hal Blaine, one of the greatest drummers ever. There's a reason that great artists SOUND great...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 19:55pm

Double - Captain of Her Heart

BTW - Glen Campbell was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame in 2005.

Posted by Tom Lane on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 20:06pm

Agreed, Git... but the problem is, he had such a career as a Performer, inducting him as a Side-Man would appear to be a slight against him. But it is more fitting to put him in as a Side-Man, because his career as a Performer just isn't what the NomCom looks for in Performers. His style wasn't really rock, more country-ish, and it wasn't earth-moving non-rock music that influenced a lot of rockers that followed. His best-known songs are more... karaoke standards. Sad to say, but his best bet is as a Side-Man... I would be shocked out of my skull if he made it as a Performer.

And once again, there will be no solo induct for Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Mike Rutherford... no "Special Induction"... at least not yet.

BUT, I'm not going to call impossible this time. The induction of Wanda Jackson as an Early Influence leads me to believe that the Lifetime Achievement category may soon be used to induct artists that can't get in otherwise. But if they do this... it'll probably be Chic first... cronyism and whatnot.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 20:07pm

I am going for side musician early influence/PR
as far artist goes there are to many and most of them are more hype that anything..The early influence should be in but at this point ...

side Musicians
Carol Kay
Dr John
Glen Campbell
Nicky Hopkins
Sandy Nelson
Albert Lee

Early influence
Link Wray
Surfaris
Belairs
Fireballs
Fabulous Wailers
Kingsmen
Sandy Nelson
Pasty Cline

Best PR
Wolfman Jack
Colonel Parker

Posted by mrxyz on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 21:54pm

Early influence
Link Wray
Surfaris
Belairs
Fireballs
Fabulous Wailers
Kingsmen
Sandy Nelson
Pasty Cline

Best PR
Wolfman Jack
Colonel Parker



Posted by mrxyz on Wednesday, 08.19.09 @ 21:54pm

Nice picks mrxyz

This next question is directed at Lax26, when you were on this site about a year ago, did you call yourself "Lax25" or is my memory failing me?

Posted by Keebord on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 07:11am

If the committee had any balls, they'd induct:

Uriah Heep
Mountain
UFO
Johnny Rivers
The Grass Roots

But seeing as they're the morons they are, it's probably going to be:

Bon Jovi
Beastie Boys
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Janet Jackson
the Sugarhill Gang

Posted by Peter on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 07:20am

Lax, re Lionel Richie: True, he was a major part of The Commodores. But to avoid a Smokey Robinson and The Miracles situation (call it cleavage) it would be nice to have Richie inducted along with the group from which he launched. Otherwise The Commodores are left out to dry. Just like ICO Genesis, you should want the group in first, before camping for the individuals.

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 07:34am

mrxyz... none of your Early Influence picks fit the criteria for Early Influence... I mean, were any of them really making records before '55 when Bill Haley had Rock Around The Clock? I mean, I know that didn't stop them from inducting Wanda Jackson as an EI, but considering a couple of them weren't even around til the 60's... why on earth should we induct them as Early Influences, a category that's SUPPOSED to be for those who were before the dawn of rock'n'roll (i.e., the 1940's or sooner.... 1950-55 usually gets you a Performer nod... usually, that is)?

And Col. Tom Parker should never be inducted. No way, no how, no chance.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 13:49pm

Keebord-- yeah it's the same Lax. If you manage to pull up last years predictions, he made the same predictions, and it's the same style of authorship.

Telarock, that's a bad example, simply for the fact, and from what I've gathered, that Lax cares more about Peter Gabriel getting in than he does the rest of Genesis. He mentions this special induction concept, but truthfully, I believe it's because he wants whatever it takes to get solo Gabriel recognized. If Peter Gabriel got in this time around, I'd almost be willing to bet money that Lax would stop posting about the worthiness of solo Hackett, Banks and Rutherford... would probably cease all commendation for solo Collins, and might drastically subside support for the group Genesis. That last one, maybe not, simply because he'd like to see Gabriel get in more than once... a member of the Clyde McPhatter Club, as it were. So really, bad example to use with him.

But I agree completely. Commodores as a group, THEN Lionel Richie... maybe.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 13:56pm

If there's a Hall of Fame for "Blood Sucking Scumbags", then Col. Tom Parker would definitely be first ballot...no question!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 18:22pm

"from what I've gathered, that Lax cares more about Peter Gabriel getting in than he does the rest of Genesis." - Philip
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Philip, that is also my take on Lax. My aim was to persuade him of the error of his ways. (smile) Lax, are you getting this? No special inductions. No singular inductions. Genesis goes in as a group, or forget about any of them.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
As re Lionel Richie, he is not bent on his own singular glory-fication. He says he wants to get The Commodores back together. Dont know what may be preventing that?

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 21:42pm

mrxyz... none of your Early Influence picks fit the criteria for Early Influence... I mean, were any of them really making records before '55 when Bill Haley had Rock Around The Clock? I mean, I know that didn't stop them from inducting Wanda Jackson as an EI, but considering a couple of them weren't even around til the 60's... why on earth should we induct them as Early Influences, a category that's SUPPOSED to be for those who were before the dawn of rock'n'roll (i.e., the 1940's or sooner.... 1950-55 usually gets you a Performer nod... usually, that is)?

And Col. Tom Parker should never be inducted. No way, no how, no chance.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 13:49pm


as time move froward {some believe} the late 50's early 60's is vintage rock.. I feel the names I chose moved rock into bands such as ... Cream ,Hendrix ,Who, Van Halen,Rush an a list a mile long....They were the early new rule makers /breakers {Short lived} Including Cline but that would be more on the Joplin /De Shannon ,Jules.... side of 60's- 70- 80- 00's rock ...

As far as the Parker goes.. he was the other 1/2 of Elvis.... like it or not.. The man was a master in PR... or it could of been Elvis who.... ? I should of also added Brian Epstein.. Specially when you think of the talent he {Elvis} was going against at that time... From FATS Berry Richard,Dion,Jerry Lee.... the list is quite impressive.. That took a master in PR.... aka Hollywood Hype ! Ps I like Elvis aka the King LOL

Posted by mrxyz on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 22:17pm

I think were mrxyz was going with those Early Influences was that some of them (Link Wray for example) have only one shot at getting in now and that is as an early influence.

As for Tom Parker, he shouldn't ever get in.

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 04:26am

But seeing as they're the morons they are, it's probably going to be:

Bon Jovi
Beastie Boys
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Janet Jackson
the Sugarhill Gang

Posted by Peter on Thursday, 08.20.09 @ 07:20am

Peter, I think you might have nailed it. Although I don't think they would nominate two rap acts. Substitute the Sugarhill Gang for Guns 'n Roses and I think that would be pretty much it. Just sit back and watch progressive rock weavyweights like Genesis, Yes, Jethro Tull, King Crimson, Rush and ELP get snubbed again this year.

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 04:30am

I thought I'd post this here because I thought it was pretty interesting. This is taken from the Voting Statistics page on this site:

Highest Fan Approval
1. Van Halen 96.76% (432 votes)
2. Syd Barrett 94.23% (52 votes)
3. Deep Purple 93.94% (1501 votes)
4. R.E.M. 93.34% (601 votes)
5. Stevie Ray Vaughan 93.12% (8501 votes)
6. The Moody Blues 92.76% (1546 votes)
7. Alice Cooper 91.90% (1987 votes)
8. Dire Straits 90.63% (1025 votes)
9. John Mellencamp 90.38% (551 votes)
10. Steppenwolf 89.37% (414 votes)

REM, Van Halen and John Mellencamp are all in. However, inducting Deep Purple, SRV, The Moody Blues, Alice Cooper, Dire Straits and Steppenwolf wouldn't be that bad of a group. (Not too sure about Syd Barrett!)

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 04:35am

Let me throw this one out there. The Monkees. OK, they didn't write ALL of their songs. Check. They didn't play EVERY instrument on their albums. Check. What else? May I remind you that The Temptations, Four Tops, you name the cookie cutter Motown group, and I'll guarantee you they didn't play their instruments or write their own songs. Holland/Dozier/Holland wrote them and session musicians played them. Marvin Gaye wrote some but you get the idea.

Posted by Shane on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 05:56am

Keebord, Your list is a good one especially Deep Purple. Unfortunately, that group wouldn't fly with Jann. No R n' B or rap group represented.

Posted by Shane on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 05:59am

I have noticed Philip's theory on my considerations of the Genesis tree. I will admit that the one part of that tree, if you will, that is going to be inducted in the RRHOF Class of 2010 will be Peter Gabriel.

Now, once that does occur, as it is most certainly will this induction cycle, that does NOT end my wanting to see Genesis be inducted as a band; not to mention the individual inductions of Steve Hackett, Tony banks, and Mike Rutherford on their own, plus perhaps Ray Wilson once he is eligible. The advocacy and campaining on their fronts will continue. Notice, however, that I do NOT include Phil Collins on his own. Those reasons I have touched upon in previous posts.

Also, to note, the Sugarhill Gang will never be inducted. Chic will be inducted, likely in the Class of 2010 and rightly so, but not the Sugarhill Gang. Were that to ever occur, not only would I eat my hat on Youtube, I would proceed to shave my hair off on my head also on Youtube. That, howevee, will not occur because the Sugarhill Gang will not, and do not deserve, induction.

By the way, Telarock, it is the first time I am hearing any statement from Lionel Richie concerning reuniting The Commodores. As to what may be stopping that: well, Milan Williams did pass away in 2006. I will also mention that when Richie left the band, Thomas McClary left at about the same time. Roland Lapread did leave after "Night Shift". So that is down to Walter Orange, William King, and J.D. Nicholas in deciding whether to join forces with the rest of the guys, Lionel Richie included. From what I gather, that will certainly never happen, due to artistic disagreements and the general feeling of the rest of the Commodores, apart from Milan Williams, that Lionel Richie was too big or too good for them, so to speak. Richie, himself, infers this in performing and compiling Commodores-era songs and albums as if it were his own; which in many cases it was. Exhibit Q: "Brick House", in its initial recordings, had Walter Orange singing lead. After leaving the Commodores in 1981, Lionel Richie performs "Brick House" on his own, with him singing lead. Thus, most people initially infer that Lionel Richie sang lead on everything the Commodores did during his time there. It is not the case, yet for the other guys in the band, including Walter Orange, there is a bubbling resentment and professional jealously regarding Lionel Richie. Added to that the fact that after Richie left, the Commodores were just okay, nothing really interesting after that time. Thus, Lionel Richie will be inducted one day into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on his own accord; wheras the Commodores on their own accord do not need to be.

Oh yes, one more statement regarding the Sugarhill Gang: they only had that one hit song, which was borrowed from the Chic hit "Good Times". Are we going to now induct one-hit wonders into the RRHOF using this slippery slope? Again, this is why I detest any consideration for The Kingsmen, amongst other acts, for consideration. They are not worthy of it. To note, you do not see me advocating Europe for induction, and rightly so. So why would the Sugarhill Gang be considered at all?

"Final Countdown" is pompously dreadful,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 07:13am

Will you also eat your hat and post the video on youtube when Peter Gabriel does not get inducted this year?

Posted by Ralph on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 07:18am

I think were mrxyz was going with those Early Influences was that some of them (Link Wray for example) have only one shot at getting in now and that is as an early influence.

As for Tom Parker, he shouldn't ever get in.

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 04:26am


After almost 50 years it seems to make sense


I would put my main 4
Link Wray {power cords, early surf, gain/fuzz sound}

Surfaris {Early Surf , lead guitar and lots of drum fills type of songs, Drum Solo of rock... }

Fireballs Early Surf ,Fuzz /gain sound ,made it through 3 music fads }

Patisy Cline {she can sing Walkin after midnight and Crazy her songs are the foundation of many }


Parker is a master of PR ...AKA Elvis ,bar none ,0 . nada . The list is to long of making rock ok, to listen to. Not counting the Films such as "King Creole" a true heavy master piece ,Ed Sulivian, also the "king of B movies" ... and Elvis is "King of Rock" LOL that in its self sould be mo than to much ,,,
{SMILE}

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 13:27pm

PS Sandy Nelson should be in both as side man {Spector and many others ]
or early influence{Early Surf ,heavy drums fills song and great drum solos songs }

Also Lew Chudd of Imperial Records From Fats {1948} to the first stereo LP in rock ... Ricky Nelson, Sandy Nelson etc etc...



I think were mrxyz was going with those Early Influences was that some of them (Link Wray for example) have only one shot at getting in now and that is as an early influence.

As for Tom Parker, he shouldn't ever get in.

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 04:26am


After almost 50 years it seems to make sense


I would put my main 4
Link Wray {power cords, early surf, gain/fuzz sound}

Surfaris {Early Surf , lead guitar and lots of drum fills type of songs, Drum Solo of rock... }

Fireballs Early Surf ,Fuzz /gain sound ,made it through 3 music fads }

Patisy Cline {she can sing Walkin after midnight and Crazy her songs are the foundation of many }


Parker is a master of PR ...AKA Elvis ,bar none ,0 . nada . The list is to long of making rock ok, to listen to. Not counting the Films such as "King Creole" a true heavy master piece ,Ed Sulivian, also the "king of B movies" ... and Elvis is "King of Rock" LOL that in its self sould be mo than to much ,,,
{SMILE}

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 13:45pm

Lax, you obviously do not know anything about one hit wonders, since Percy Sledge is in the Hall of Fame and he had only one hit, also Patti Smith had only one hit. By the way Europe also hit No.3 on the charts with "Carrie". I am not saying The Sugarhill Gang should be in but the Hall has put one hit wonders in before and probably will again.

Also, the only solo members from Genesis who have a chance for making it are Gabriel and Collins. The Others didn't influence anybody but you.

Posted by Brian on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 13:57pm

Re: Percy Sledge
Sorry Brian, Percy Sledge didn't just have one hit. He had 5 Billboard Top 40 hits. His last in 1968 reached #11. And someone mentioned the Kingsmen being one hit wonders. Wrong again. They had 3 Top 40 hits.

Posted by Tom Lane on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 17:59pm

That might be true but he is only remembered for the one hit.

Posted by Brian on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 19:53pm

That depends on who's doing the remembering. But, if you were to re-word that into "Percy Sledge had one humongous hit right off the bat that everybody knows, and despite following it up with other hits, he never could match the popularity of that first song, "When A Man Loves A Woman"," then you'd be right.

I was stunned when Sledge was nominated, and even more surprised when he was inducted, considering how often Joe Tex had been nominated and passed over, or how many times Solomon Burke was nominated before finally being inducted.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 21:43pm

I was stunned when Sledge was nominated, and even more surprised when he was inducted, considering how often Joe Tex had been nominated and passed over, or how many times Solomon Burke was nominated before finally being inducted.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 21:43pm


I was surprised but pleased ...the man can sing...
All it takes is a real HIT.. something that passes the time test.....If it rings true like the gospel so to speak ,,
One of my all time favorite writer/singer/musician ,Mr Cohen never had a big hit but his words/ music says it all... like the gospel ,so to speak

Posted by mnrxyz on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 22:02pm

mrxyz... I disagree with your assessment, honestly. I don't think they're going to shift the timeline for what constitutes Early Influence as newer artists become eligible. That'd be like inducting them via some sort of "Veterans Commission," like they use for the Baseball Hall Of Fame. The Early Influence category's definition does not involve a shifting timeline. Rock had a relatively definite beginning (relatively being the operative word) and they're not going to continually change that defined beginning to act like a "Veterans Commission".

Lax, I could see you continuing to campaign for Genesis after the induction of Gabriel... but honestly, you've GOT to give up the obsession with the Genesis tree. Hackett, Banks, and Rutherford's solo works were of no serious consequence. They do not deserve to be inducted because you like them and/or because they're one degree of separation away from Peter Gabriel.

And declare it all you want, but you do NOT know for fact that Gabriel's getting in this year. I'll grant you, he's a good choice with possibility, but he's not a lock. Your predictions are no less valid than any of ours, but they are also no more valid either, and your averring otherwise is off-putting, to put it mildly. I really wish you could see how insane it makes you look. And I mean clinical.

As for this one-hit wonder bit... acts with only one Top 40 hit that are in the Hall:

Carl Perkins
Buffalo Springfield
Jimi Hendrix Experience
Janis Joplin (solo)
Frank Zappa

So yes, they do induct one-hit wonders. They even induct acts that had no hits on any of the Billboard U.S. singles charts (Velvet Underground, Sex Pistols, Leonard Cohen).

So yeah... let's be smart and bury that whole topic right there. It's dead on arrival.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 23:05pm

Philip wrote:
mrxyz... I disagree with your assessment, honestly. I don't think they're going to shift the timeline for what constitutes Early Influence as newer artists become eligible. That'd be like inducting them via some sort of "Veterans Commission," like they use for the Baseball Hall Of Fame. The Early Influence category's definition does not involve a shifting timeline. Rock had a relatively definite beginning (relatively being the operative word) and they're not going to continually change that defined beginning to act like a "Veterans Commission".


Didn't say they would I was thinking they should.... after 50 years it should or could be influence..

Posted by mxyz on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 23:21pm

I don't think they should, though. Early Influences are those whose music PREDATED rock'n'roll... music that was around before "Rock Around The Clock", "Shake Rattle And Roll," maybe even "Money Honey".

Early Influence should not be a "Veterans Commission" type of deal to induct those who aren't "good enough" to make it in as Performers. It cheapens those artists, it cheapens those were rightly inducted as Early Influence, it cheapens the title of "Early Influence", and it cheapens the whole Hall (further, if you want to go there).

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 23:31pm

don't think they should, though. Early Influences are those whose music PREDATED rock'n'roll... music that was around before "Rock Around The Clock", "Shake Rattle And Roll," maybe even "Money Honey".

Early Influence should not be a "Veterans Commission" type of deal to induct those who aren't "good enough" to make it in as Performers. It cheapens those artists, it cheapens those were rightly inducted as Early Influence, it cheapens the title of "Early Influence", and it cheapens the whole Hall (further, if you want to go there).

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.21.09 @ 23:31pm

Gosh I think my list is good enough if not better than most..that are in already .. I guess Fats should be out as a performer, Since his first hit was in 1949.. He should be early influence..? LOL .

It does not cheapen it... it gives a wealth of material to mine from,,,,,


Putting in some of the performers an leaving out others have cheapen it already in some cases one could argue ..

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 00:58am

"Gosh I think my list is good enough if not better than most..that are in already .."

That's a subjective opinion, and one that is so steeped in surf (except Patsy), that one would have to be as big a nut about surf music as you to concur.

"I guess Fats should be out as a performer, Since his first hit was in 1949.. He should be early influence..? LOL ."

Not quite an apt example. The vast majority of Fats' body of work (and especially his relevant body of work) is 1955+. "Isn't That A Shame", "Blueberry Hill", "I'm Ready", "I'm Walkin'", "Whole Lotta Lovin'", etc. Your example, while a good attempt, falls flat.

"It does not cheapen it... it gives a wealth of material to mine from,,,,,"

It cheapens it because 1) the Early Influences are chosen by a closed-door sub-committee, which is incredibly susceptible to cronyism and power plays, as the induction of Wanda Jackson as an Early Influence clearly demonstrates 2) you are talking about artists who SHOULD be in as Performers because they were rock'n'rollers being inducted as Early Influences because they couldn't be inducted any other way... it's a sympathy induction, really; 3) the Early Influence category is for artists who were NOT rock'n'roll, who music predated it, but were influential upon future rock 'n'rollers. Your list is comprised of rock'n'rollers who couldn't predate it because they WERE rock'n'rollers. You cheapen their induction by defiling the definition of Early Influence.


"Putting in some of the performers an leaving out others have cheapen it already in some cases one could argue .."

That's a valid point. But we all have our lists of artists we'd like to see inducted but aren't. But by the same token, as someone once pointed out, the Hall isn't supposed to be an Encyclopedia With Walls either, where every jot, tittle, and footnote is an inductee.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:16am

It cheapens it because 1) the Early Influences are chosen by a closed-door sub-committee, which is incredibly susceptible to cronyism and power plays,

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:16am


LOL that is to funny.... As if the performer part isn't .... a power play on about 1/2 that are already in...

You're to funny
It is rock and roll ...... the hypes of hypes

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:22am

"LOL that is to funny.... As if the performer part isn't .... a power play on about 1/2 that are already in..."

However, the voting process does a fairly good job of weeding out the bias and cronyism of the Nominating Process. However, acts like Chic keep cropping up perennially. But just because Link Wray has never been nominated doesn't mean the process is corrupt through and through. You're trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And quite frankly, for you to "LOL" at it is laughable itself, considering your basis for an artist's worthiness of induction is strictly "Do I like them?" To me, that's more disingenuous than trying to put Chic in just because they're friends with Nile.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:34am

That's a subjective opinion, and one that is so steeped in surf (except Patsy), that one would have to be as big a nut about surf music as you to concur.


Gee I thought you said Link Wray,Sandy Nelson, Fire Balls etc weren't surf ?? I don't recall if you thought the Beach Boys are surf or not,...LOL
It just happens that the names I gave changed Rock a lot.. Surf or not...there are others but that was just a start. These names are real rockers... Not like some of the big names of today..
all ya need is ears... an a time line...
Surfs Up RU?
{SMILE}

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:35am

"Gee I thought you said Link Wray,Sandy Nelson, Fire Balls etc weren't surf ?? I don't recall if you thought the Beach Boys are surf or not,...LOL "

Not quite what I said... Sandy Nelson isn't surf, but you're convinced that he is. The Fireballs did surf, but the records that they're remembered for, "Sugar Shack" and "Bottle Of Wine" are not surf. Link Wray... same story, only it's "Rumble" that's the remembered song.

But let me seriously ask you, how did the Fireballs influence and shape the world of rock'n'roll? Who cites them as a major influence? Seriously, don't be telling me that I'm the one who needs a timeline. You have even less of a clue.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:42am

And quite frankly, for you to "LOL" at it is laughable itself, considering your basis for an artist's worthiness of induction is strictly "Do I like them?" To me, that's more disingenuous than trying to put Chic in just because they're friends with Nile.


I don't have to like or dis like... I am not a big fan of many in the RRHF but can see why they are in...

I look at what they did .....
If they had there own sound an changed the direction of music/rock in a positive creative way... the leaders more than the followers is a big plus in my book ..
I AM NOT A real lover of surf.. But know what it did...
A Hit or 2 helps sometimes all ya need is good 1

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:43am

"I don't have to like or dis like... I am not a big fan of many in the RRHF but can see why they are in...

I look at what they did .....
If they had there own sound an changed the direction of music/rock in a positive creative way... the leaders more than the followers is a big plus in my book .." Really? You're dissing U2 and have the audacity to say that if a band has their own sound and changed the direction in a positive creative way, then yes?


"I AM NOT A real lover of surf.. But know what it did... "

And yet you constantly hate on surf's second- and third-most influential band because one group didn't write their own hits, and the other came after these other pet acts of yours. Not to mention you got uppity with me when I made the comment that the Beach Boys were more than surf-rock, as if I'd said surf-rock was an inferior form of music or something like that. I'm sorry, maybe you mean what you say, but I do not believe you here.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:50am

ot quite what I said... Sandy Nelson isn't surf, but you're convinced that he is. The Fireballs did surf, but the records that they're remembered for, "Sugar Shack" and "Bottle Of Wine" are not surf. Link Wray... same story, only it's "Rumble" that's the remembered song.

But let me seriously ask you, how did the Fireballs influence and shape the world of rock'n'roll? Who cites them as a major influence? Seriously, don't be telling me that I'm the one who needs a timeline. You have even less of a clue.


I site them as a major influence....


Early surf before DD by 3-4 years early fuzz box sound 2-3 years etc... THEY set the stage.. others built on it....they are innovators ... I like that and give it the well earned respect due..

That is why if not as a performer than early influence... Years mean nothing it is what effect it had on the direct evolution of rock..

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:51am

"I site them as a major influence...."

And you are??? See, if you're not a musician yourself who is making waves, having hits, or changing the musical landscape yourself, it doesn't matter whom you call a major influence upon your life. Influence means making that indelible impression on those musicians who come later and do big things themselves. If you're a historian or president of a fan club... that really means nothing.


"Early surf before DD by 3-4 years early fuzz box sound 2-3 years etc... THEY set the stage.. others built on it....they are innovators ... I like that and give it the well earned respect due.." That's innovation, not influence.

"That is why if not as a performer than early influence... Years mean nothing it is what effect it had on the direct evolution of rock.. "

Except... you're wrong in that statement. The definition of Early Influence explicitly states it's for those whose majority of important body of work predated the Rock Era, and whose music made a direct impact on rock'n'rollers. The Rock Era pretty much has a defined starting point. You can't just go changing the definition of what it means to be Early Influence to suit your needs or to act as a Veterans Committee... by your definition, the Beatles should be inducted a second time, as an Early Influence, because they were a direct influence on bands like Oasis. It's just nonsense.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:01am

And yet you constantly hate on surf's second- and third-most influential band because one group didn't write their own hits, and the other came after these other pet acts of yours. Not to mention you got uppity with me when I made the comment that the Beach Boys were more than surf-rock, as if I'd said surf-rock was an inferior form of music or something like that. I'm sorry, maybe you mean what you say, but I do not believe you here.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 01:50am




I don't think surf is inferior I think the Beach boys are surf at surfs best...
Also I think some Surf open the door in rock to such greats as Hendrix ,Who. Van Halen etc..
I think the Surfaris as short lived as they were were the door openers in that type of direction...
more than Belairs ,the Ventures ,Beach Boys, Dale or Jan an Dean . The Chanteys are a close 2nd/3rd with PiPeline LOL

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:03am

That's not what I said... I said you seemed to take what I said to mean that *I* think surf is inferior, when I didn't say that. I said it was a subgenre of rock'n'roll.

The Surfaris more influential than the Beach Boys? Ok, I think I need an aspirin for that remark.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:07am

hat's not what I said... I said you seemed to take what I said to mean that *I* think surf is inferior, when I didn't say that. I said it was a subgenre of rock'n'roll.

The Surfaris more influential than the Beach Boys? Ok, I think I need an aspirin for that remark.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:07am

Gosh Surf is a subgenre of rock huh.. LOL

No I said the Surfaris on the type of music that Hendrix, Van Haven ,Who , play {Heavy guitar riff and drum fills} that Surfaris open the door to that .... The band was mainly lead guitar and drum solos /fills etc .. Rather than a straight a head 2/4-- 1/3 pockest....
Listen to Point Panic, Wipe Out, scatter shield, Waikiki Run and bunch of other songs on there first Decca album.. {second album}

thats all..
The Beach Boys are the BEST SURF BAND EVER,,

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:23am

"Gosh Surf is a subgenre of rock huh.. LOL"

You disagree with that statement? How so?


"No I said the Surfaris on the type of music that Hendrix, Van Haven ,Who , play {Heavy guitar riff and drum fills} that Surfaris open the door to that .... The band was mainly lead guitar and drum solos /fills etc .. Rather than a straight a head 2/4-- 1/3 pockest....
Listen to Point Panic, Wipe Out, scatter shield, Waikiki Run and bunch of other songs on there first Decca album.. {second album}

thats all.."

So, you're saying the Surfaris invented the drum fill/solo? Again, I'd probably disagree... I mean, the Ventures version of "Walk Don't Run" was a hit three years before "Wipe Out" was first a hit. And I'd be willing to wager Big Bands made use of it too, though no immediate examples spring to mind. However, if you wish to argue that the Surfaris took the concept to a whole new level, I'd say you have a better case, though I don't quite know if I'd agree that it's HoF... but at least it's a much better case than you had before, if only because it's much more clearly stated.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:36am

Here are a few notable snubs that should be nominated:

Yes
Genesis
King Crimson
Dire Straits
ELP
Jethro Tull
The Small Faces
The Hollies
ELO
T.Rex
The Moody Blues
The Zombies
Deep Purple
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Chicago
The Grass Roots

That being said, I give you the unfortunate class of 2010 (none of them deserve to get in apart from The Stooges)

Janet Jackson
Beastie Boys
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Chic
The Stooges

Posted by Ogden on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 04:42am

What ever happened to Uncle Ted? He ruled the 70's.

Posted by Bill on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 05:18am

Let me say this is a rock hall of fame *& maybe this year they will stick to rock

My list

Red hot chili peppers
Genesis
Journey
Heart
Rush
Stevie Nicks
Scorpions
Iron Maiden
Stevie Ray

Posted by Martin on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 07:02am

BON JOVI

Posted by Michelle on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 08:41am

So, you're saying the Surfaris invented the drum fill/solo? Again, I'd probably disagree... I mean, the Ventures version of "Walk Don't Run" was a hit three years before "Wipe Out" was first a hit. And I'd be willing to wager Big Bands made use of it too, though no immediate examples spring to mind. However, if you wish to argue that the Surfaris took the concept to a whole new level, I'd say you have a better case, though I don't quite know if I'd agree that it's HoF... but at least it's a much better case than you had before, if only because it's much more clearly stated.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:36am


First of all Sandy Nelson "Teen Beat" came out in 1959 that he wrote or co wrote "walk don't run" it came out in 1960 {ps the Venture didn't write}

Also I don't think the little 2 /4 then drum rollin the begining and at the break is what I am talking about..lol

"Teen Beat" or Bo Diddly's stuff is the first with the drums tunes.. pocket "Teen Beat" is really is the first I would agree .. but the guitar wasn't as free flowing as the Surfaris.. I am talkin lead guitar /drum tunes Like Hendrix ,Cream, Who etc Surf music really open the door to all of that.. Before every one kinda held their place.. as in Take no chances Yes big bands had a lot of drum tunes with free fowling instrumentals .. the such as Topsy 1 and 2 or Sing Sing Sing to just name a small few.... I am talkin Rock and Roll can ya hear me talkin .. ?Yo lol

LOL..!

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 10:21am

if you wish to argue that the Surfaris took the concept to a whole new level, I'd say you have a better case, though I don't quite know if I'd agree that it's HoF... but at least it's a much better case than you had before, if only because it's much more clearly stated.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 02:36am
Yes that is what I am saying
PS the Surfaris were offered to be in the RRHF as you know.. BUT ONE OF THE LATER MEMBERS GOT IN A BEEF WITH THE HALL.. kinda killed the deal {long Story} lol

That's show BIZ....

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 10:37am

Crossing my fingers,

Genesis
Badfinger
The Electric Light Orchestra
Rush

Single inductees:


Les Paul
John Peel
Paul Carrack
Nick Lowe
Malcom McClaren

Posted by Stephaie Travitsky on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 12:53pm

LES PAUL IS ALREADY AN INDUCTEE!

Posted by QAZ on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 14:34pm

mrxyz, I would like to see your source for that story about the Surfaris almost getting into the R&RHoF. Now, the part about one of the members getting "in a beef" with someone "in the Hall", I can believe. I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't happen all the time. But the part about the Surfaris almost getting in the R&RHoF? I need to see your source, or otherwise, I don't believe it for a second.

For the record, "Wipeout" is on the R&RHoF's "500 Songs That Shaped Rock and Roll" list.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 17:51pm

mrxyz, I would like to see your source for that story about the Surfaris almost getting into the R&RHoF. Now, the part about one of the members getting "in a beef" with someone "in the Hall", I can believe. I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't happen all the time. But the part about the Surfaris almost getting in the R&RHoF? I need to see your source, or otherwise, I don't believe it for a second.

For the record, "Wipeout" is on the R&RHoF's "500 Songs That Shaped Rock and Roll" list.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 17:51pm




The source is from ME I was there
PS Guitar World states wIPE OUT is one of the 10,,,,
Surfs UP RU

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 20:28pm

The source is from ME I was there
PS Guitar World states wIPE OUT is one of the 10,,,,
Surfs UP RU

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 20:28pm

OF COURSE THAT WAS OVER 20 YEARS AGO.......

AN THINGS DO GET HAZY..... BUT FROM WHAT I RECALL THAT IS PART IT..I AM SURE THERE WERE OTHER FACTORS..

Posted by mrxyz on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 20:39pm

"Also I don't think the little 2 /4 then drum rollin the begining and at the break is what I am talking about..lol"

Hey, a drum solo is a drum solo. Johnny And The Hurricanes had one at the beginning of "Reveille Rock", but you kinda overlooked the part where I said "took the concept to a whole new level."

And interesting story, but we a bit more substantiation than your word that you were there. And how big a tiff was this? There's a lot of ground in here to cover.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 23:07pm

Okay, then, you heard this 20 years ago. I take it you either overheard an interview, or one of the members made a statement from the stage during a concert? Let us know a little bit more about what you heard here.

As for "almost getting into the Hall", if we take that to mean they almost were inducted, during that time, as it is now, the Surfaris would have to get on a nominee list and then be voted on as to whether they would be inducted or not. We know they were not on any nominee list. So, that leaves us with them being considered by a group of nominators that may have been twice as many, if not more, than what we have now.

If one of the Surfaris got into an argument with one of the nominators, that person would have to convince all those other nominators not to vote for the Surfaris. And, with as big as egos as I know many of those nominators have, if they wanted the Surfaris on the nominee ballot, they would have ignored the denunciations of the one and voted them on anyway.

As an example, Robert Hilburn is on record as thinking that even 5 inductees a year are too many, and that many of the inductees over the last few years do not deserve to be in the R&RHoF, let alone the nominees. Despite his disagreements, the Dells, the Ronettes and many others have been inducted.

So, can you understand my skepticism? We need to know where it was that you heard this firsthand. Then we need to know what that guy meant by "almost getting into the Hall". I've read of many acts who talk about being in the Hall, even saying they were inducted, but what they meant was that they were featured in a display in the R&RHoF. The words people use and the concepts and misconceptions behind those words makes things like this more murky than you'd think.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 07:12am

One thing you have to understand about mrxyz...he thinks EVERYBODY should be inducted...except for Stevie Ray Vaughan and Dick Dale!!

Which gives me an idea...why don't they just let everybody in, and then once a year have a ceremony to kick people out!!! That might be easier than deciding who should be inducted...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 07:55am

Charles Crossley, Jr

It was over 20 years ago Having said that.. I will tell you that it was a stupid disagreement and if anyone was more in the right it was RRHF..In my opinion.

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 11:11am

Gitarzan wrote:
Derek...with a few notable exceptions on this site, I'd say you're "preaching to the choir". Leaving ABBA out and inducting "The Mad Donna" on the FIRST BALLOT throws me all out of whack...!!
!One thing you have to understand about mrxyz...he thinks EVERYBODY should be inducted...except for Stevie Ray Vaughan and Dick Dale!!


There are many I think should be in before DD and SRV as you do.. I think they should be in but others should get in before them ..In my opinion


Seems the Hall agrees I don't see them in yet..

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 11:15am

Hey, a drum solo is a drum solo. Johnny And The Hurricanes had one at the beginning of "Reveille Rock", but you kinda overlooked the part where I said "took the concept to a whole new level."


Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.22.09 @ 23:07pm

I call it a drum intro not a solo but call it what you will...... and the middle is the same as the intro I call that a drum break..{To weak to be a solo In my opinion}
Having said that as mentioned,, Sandy Nelson from what I can tell had the first "drum solo" type of song in rock that hit.. The Surfaris took Nelson , Link Wray, and put them in one song...also adding there own spin... ..Yes Dale was a big influence also
It open the door... to Groups such as Cream ,Who Hendrix,Van Va Halen ,Rush ... etc having heavy guitar licks a lot s of drum fills songs. Of course they took it to a new level again ....

.

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 11:40am

My thoughts on the Surfaris:

No induction for them. Really all, "Wipeout" is one of the most overused, overrated, annoying songs I have heard in my lifetime. Jeez, it is just variations on a blues pattern in the note of C. One that just happens to have a drum pattern which is rather tame and rudimentary. Not to mention the rather annoying first 10 seconds of laughter that comes before the instruments chime in.

For another thing, Ron Wilson was not that influential or great of a drummer. When I think of an influential drummer whom would merit consideration for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think of a person such as Billy Cobham. Now THERE is a great drummer: his 1973 album "Spectrum" is clear proof of his mastery in drumming and composition. Plus, his soloing sounds musical, as opposed to monotonous.

It is time to face certain truths: one being, just like the music of my youth was not all great of the 1980s and 1990s, the music of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s were not all that great either. Frankly, some of the sounds made at that time were more in respect towards the supposed (hoped-for) novelty of rock music. The Surfaris, the Kingsmen, Sam the Sham and the Pharoas, Clarence "Frogman" Henry, Helen Reddy, the Buckinghams, Climax, Player, Lulu, Zager and Evans, Bucknell and Garcia, Three Dog Night, Lou Christie, The Essex, Johnny Nash, and a whole slew of others in that era are not ever going to be inducted into the RRHOF, and with good cause. Frankly, there recordings are either too novelty, or do not hold up in the times ahead outright.

Now for something different: it appears that the Non-Performers category has been decided, according to Roger Friedman. For the Class of 2010, it will be David Geffen, and for 2011 it will be Doug Morris. I am not certain if the initial reports are accurate, though. If they are, then an early congradulations to Geffen and maybe to Morris on these awards, I think.

Philip, as you mentioned, I do not know that it is certain that Peter Gabriel will be inducted in the Class of 2010. I just have an inference that Gabriel will be inducted; it is not a 100% certainty. It appears, though, that the five artists I picked for induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2010, Peter Gabriel included, are the five most deserving and the artists with the most noted cache of works and ideas to merit induction. If I am incorrect on any of these five, then that will be what it will be. I will not, however, proceed to eat my hat if any of the five does not get inducted. Only when an artist not deserving of induction gets inducted, like the examples in my posts, will I do such an odd thing.

Writing this without the wistful nostalgia of a past,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 18:56pm

Actually, "Wipeout" is in the key of G...

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 19:26pm

Lax26

As much as I enjoy jazz fusion {Billy Cobham }I am just not seeing it in RRHF.. You will find that the majority of rock songs are blues oriented as in 8 bar 12 bar etc,,,
I do agree Wipe Out is played a lot...From the Radio , movies to commercials ...The reason is it is the ROCK DRUM Solo all are measured by ,,Heck they were 15 years old.. an no budget.. 1 take... Tell me how many bands can say that with that type of hit..LOL
LOL

My point was beyond Wipe Out .. to bad your stuck on it...

Surfs UP RU..?

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 20:38pm

Dear LAX26
you said
"It is time to face certain truths: one being, just like the music of my youth was not all great of the 1980s and 1990s, the music of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s were not all that great either."

So that leaves the 2000's ? LOL I am glad after 50 years they are finally getting rock right LOL

Posted by mrxyz on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 20:59pm

A Rock & Roll Hall of Fame without Neil Diamond is a JOKE.

Posted by Daniel Torluemke on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 22:40pm

1. Rush
2. The Cars
3. Boston
4. Chicago
5. Journey

The RRHOF will try to redeem itself and induct its biggest and best class ever.

Posted by Doug on Sunday, 08.23.09 @ 23:32pm

Since when has mrxyz been against SRV? I must have missed something again

Posted by Keebord on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 07:03am

"... Sandy Nelson from what I can tell had the first "drum solo" type of song in rock that hit.. The Surfaris took Nelson , Link Wray, and put them in one song...also adding there own spin... ..Yes Dale was a big influence also" - mrxyz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
mrxyz, yor exchanges w/Philip are bemuzing & confusing? let me chip in my own 2¢. you practically have decreed Ron Wilson is the progenitor of all rock drummers - because of that drum fill on Wipeout. but you are well aware that those kind of rolls were done by big band drummers, notably Gene Krupa, dating way back in the 1940s. and yes, Wilson probably did also pick up a few tricks from Sandy Nelson. so now, I must ask you, directly: Are you indeed a past/present member of the Surfaris??? that drum fill seemed to change yor worldview, as if it was a pivotalpoint in music history!?? you talk about "hype"? you are so hyped on the Surfaris, it defies reason - even defies yor own unique reasoning.

at least, you finally managed to give some cred to Dick Dale. hope 4 u yet. stay dry my friend.

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 10:03am

Telarock

I have alwaves given credit to DD but not as the father of surf music...
As far as the Surfaris go for the 1000x's LOL

Besides Wipe Out..
many of the other songs are lead guitar drum riffs . such as
Wipe Out
Point Panic
Waikiki run
SCATTER SHIELD
Mystic Drums..
All of these songs are early : Hendrix ,Cream ,Who Rush... type
"Surf music "open the door of these type of songs.. Of course they went to a higher plain.. but it started for the most part with Surf and the Surfaris were the leading edge on that type of rock music.. But Wray ,Eddy, Fireballs were one of the first to give that "surf sound" not DD.
Yes there are many better drummers before and after Ron Wilson ..Kurpa, Rich, Nelson Baker etc..
In Rock I give Nelson the first drum rock big hit tunes ..Teen Beat" I give the Surfaris First "drum guitar" rock tunes ...
If you would take the time an listen to the above songs with a open ear and mind . Thinking of when and where ..I feel you will come up with the same opinion
Thank you..

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 12:41pm

Problem is, mrxyz, that "Wipe Out" is the only one that has been of serious merit, of serious influence, and of any amount of timelessness. It's the only Surfaris song that did things. Surfer Joe and Point Panic were hits, but very minor ones, probably not gaining any popularity outside of SoCal. Scatter Shield, Waikiki Run, Mystic Drums... never heard of them before you came along. I'm willing to bet that they just aren't that important of songs in the scope of Rock'n'Roll. "Wipe Out" is the only song of serious accomplishment.

That of course is my opinion, and all I'll have time for. Officially, I'm not even here at work. Just swung by to clear up a few things. Out now. See y'all tomorrow night.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 12:54pm

Problem is, mrxyz, that "Wipe Out" is the only one that has been of serious merit, of serious influence, and of any amount of timelessness. It's the only Surfaris song that did things. Surfer Joe and Point Panic were hits, but very minor ones, probably not gaining any popularity outside of SoCal. Scatter Shield, Waikiki Run, Mystic Drums... never heard of them before you came along. I'm willing to bet that they just aren't that important of songs in the scope of Rock'n'Roll. "Wipe Out" is the only song of serious accomplishment.

That of course is my opinion, and all I'll have time for. Officially, I'm not even here at work. Just swung by to clear up a few things. Out now. See y'all tomorrow night.

Posted by Philip on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 12:54pm


As far as the BIG PUBLIC yes but as far as other musicians NO they listen to them As you knowe Jim fuller went on to the Seeds and his roommate was the session bass player for the Doors. His second bass player went with Love etc......Surf open the door to the free flowing guitar drum thing ...
I know first hand that EDDY AND ALEX wanted to sound as good as the Surfaris Also keith Moon loved the interaction between the drums and guitar.... of the Surfaris

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 13:00pm

Hey Guys... It seems like every year there is some Blockbuster group or singer that gets in. Such as Metallica last year and Madonna the year before. Who will it be this year ???

Posted by Joe-Skee on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 14:38pm

"...take the time an listen to the above songs with a open ear and mind." - mrxyz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
awright mrxyz, I went to youtube and checked out those Surfari songs. and will admit it wasnt the worst 20 min. I ever spent. but am still not saying Surfaris made tsunami-sized waves that rolled over the surf rock world.
and am still not going gaga-googoo over Link Wray, as if his so-called power chords caused mountains of rock to rumble.
now, what about you: do I discern changes of yor mind re Dick Dale and SRV? or are they both still just "hollywood hype"?

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 17:46pm

Hey Joe-Skee ... I think R.H.C.P., SRV, and/or maybe Donna Summer could be the so-called blockbusters this year.

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 17:51pm

If I might make a suggestion, listen to Dennis Coffey & The Detroit Guitar Band. He was a member of the Funk Brothers (as a matter of fact, he introduced the Wah pedal to Norman Whitfield, which can be evidenced on "Cloud Nine". He did some interesting solo instrumental stuff, too. Check out "Apache" and "Moonwalker"...two totally different sounds ("Apache" has a twinge of "Surf meets Fistful of Dollars" to it), but not too bad...which is the case with any of the "Funk Brothers"...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 17:56pm

Norman Whitfield was instrumental in the very funky Car Wash movie tune. Apache I know was a favorite of surf rockers, I think the Ventures did a version of it. Okay, will check it out. Then I gotta sign off.

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 18:01pm

Believe it or not, Sugarhill Gang even did a version of it...WHOA!!!! Telarock, you're right that the Ventures did a cover of it.

I guy I work with plays a Telecaster and calls himself "Telewhacker"...any chance you're related...ROFL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 18:09pm

Okay, okay!!! I know the A and I on the keyboard aren't even close....!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 18:11pm

now, what about you: do I discern changes of yor mind re Dick Dale and SRV? or are they both still just "hollywood hype"?


Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 17:46pm



YES they are over Hype good but over sold I would take Fuller over Dale and Albert lee , Alv in Lee John Mayal over SRV...I like oringals
P glde you listen to sme of it .. now go back and listen agian until you get it right..LOL


Try to remember it was with no budget , no over dubs, mono recording...1963 with the surfaris and Wray was 1958 same thing..
Enjoy your men in copy cat BLACK DD an SRV... the real and first rockman in BLACK is WRAY///// and the best the guy had guts...!! Just like Richards, Berry, Jerry Lee and a "few" others..
no rules to follow only to make and break. ... they were on the own...
LONG LIVE REAL ROCK an ROLL !!!

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 18:51pm

wright mrxyz, I went to youtube and checked out those Surfari songs. and will admit it wasnt the worst 20 min. I ever spent. but am still not saying Surfaris made tsunami-sized waves that rolled over the surf rock world.


Well they out sold DD LOL
That was/is not my point My point is they were the FIRST to have songs that were lead guitar/drum fill type of songs. Not sure what tune you heard I did see a Point Panic and Waikiki Run The Point Panic is early Hendrix as any ears can hear....with out a doubt..
Surfs UP

I like DD and SRV is a much better guitar man than DD but As I have said many times before I like the real THANG YO
SURFS UP WRAY ROCKS LOL !

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 19:57pm

Everybody has there own list on who they think should be inducted. Here is mine!(If you think I missed anybody really important in the Sidemen, Non-Preformers, or Early Influences areas please tell me)

Performers

The Big Bopper
Carole King
Chubby Checker
Ben E. King
Willie Nelson
Dick Dale
Albert King
The Kingsmen
The Moody Blues
The Zombies
Randy Newman
Love
MC5
The Monkees
Toots & The Maytals
Gram Parsons or The Flying Burrito Brothers (Either Or)
Jimmy Cliff
Blood, Sweat & Tears
Deep Purple
Genesis
Jethro Tull
Steppenwolf
T. Rex
Alice Cooper
Blind Faith
Chicago
King Crimson
Mott The Hopple
The Stooges
Yes
Derek And The Dominos
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
Todd Rundgren
Mountain
Kraftwerk
Thin Lizzy
War
Lou Reed
Roxy Music
New York Dolls
Rush
Kiss
Judas Priest
Donna Summer
Television
Boston
Peter Tosh
Cheap Trick
Chic
Peter Gabriel
The Cars
The Cure
Dire Straits
Joy Division
X
The B-52’s
Def Leppard
Iron Maiden
Sugarhill Gang
Depeche Mode
The Replacements
Motley Cure
Beastie Boys
Afrika Bambaataa
Janet Jackson
Sonic Youth
Violent Femmes
Cyndi Lauper
Pantera
Slayer
The Smiths
Stevie Ray Vaughn & Double Trouble


Early Influences

Ella Fitzgerald

Performers or Early Influences

John Coltrane
Herbie Hancock
Frank Sinatra
Patsy Cline
Ornette Coleman

Performers or Non Performers

Brian Eno

Non Performers

Lee “Scratch” Perry
Russell Simons
Barrett Strong & Norman Whitfield
Wolfman Jack
Quincy Jones
Jesse Stone
Rick Rubin
Martin Scorsese




Sidemen

Billy Preston
Ry Cooder
Al Kooper
The Memphis Horns
Randy Rhodes
Mick Ronson


Corrections

The Comets
The Crickets
The Miracles
The Mothers of Invention
The Wailers (Both the original and Bob Marley’s backing band)
The E Street Band

Posted by Gassman on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 21:46pm

Hey, Gassman, how about under "Corrections" adding the Midnighters of Hank Ballard & the Midnighters? Hank Ballard was always billed with the Midnighters, yet when it came to induction, they inducted him without them. That's just not right.

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 23:02pm

"Point Panic and Waikiki Run The Point Panic is early Hendrix as any ears can hear....with out a doubt.." - mrxyz
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So Surfaris were a major influence on Hendrix? I think Jimi would be rolling over (laughing) in his grave to hear that one! (FYI, he was not a lover of "surf music".)

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 08:20am

So Surfaris were a major influence on Hendrix? I think Jimi would be rolling over (laughing) in his grave to hear that one! (FYI, he was not a lover of "surf music".)

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 08:20am




Love it or not the facts are there
He just took it to a new wave.....


As he said you will never hear surf music again..LOL

I alwves too it that this was the next step.. with the drums angd guitar making the pocket.. Kinda like Point Panic... only eleticfied..
Then they had better amps and effects and recording....also STEREO>>>
Jimmie was a rule maker/breaker Like others I have mentioned.
I am happy that you can hear what I am saying ..

carry ON






All ya need is years and a time line

Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 09:11am

Hey, Gassman, how about under "Corrections" adding the Midnighters of Hank Ballard & the Midnighters? Hank Ballard was always billed with the Midnighters, yet when it came to induction, they inducted him without them. That's just not right.


Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Monday, 08.24.09 @ 23:02pm



Sounds good. I don't really understand why some backing bands were inducted while others have not. I mean Elvis Costello was inducted with the Attractions and Tom Petty with the Heartbreakers. Yet they leave out the E Street Band? They seem to be a little inconsistant on this front.

Posted by Gassman on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 10:23am

Three questions: 1) Is there ANYONE of any renoun you think SHOULDN'T be in the RRHOF? 2) What acts that are currently in do you think don't belong at all (and be specific; no generalizations like "NO rap acts")? 3) If all those acts/people were to get inducted, wouldn't the Rock Hall be watered down to the point where it would have no meaning at all?

Posted by To Gassman on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 11:15am

1.

The Kingston Trio
Peter, Paul & Mary
Them
Waylon Jennings
Donovan
Captain Beefheart
Moby Grape
Iron Butterfly
Steve Miller Band
Grand Funk Railroad
Joe Cocker
The J. Geils Band
Ringo Starr
The Doobie Brothers
Hall & Oats
ABBA
Tina Turner
Ted Nugent
Iggy Pop
Devo
Ozzy Osbourne
Duran Duran
Eurhythmics
Bon Jovi

2.

I really have no problem with any acts that are in. I have some problems with the fact that some got in before others did. If I had to pick some that I feel may be questionable:

Duane Eddy
Gladys Knight & The Pips
The Mamas & The Papas
Lovin’ Spoonful
Bonnie Raitt
Traffic (Were inducted to get Steve Winwood in, which I guess I have no problem with)
Miles Davis (Definitely should be in the hall, but I think he would fit better as an early influence)

3. If they all were inducted in 2010 then I would agree with you that the Hall would be watered down. Many of the artists on my list I fell should get in right now, while others I fell should get in but when really doesn’t matter. Theses would be the acts that I hope get in within the next 25 years or so. I am not someone who likes to scream “INDUCT THEM ALL NOW !!!” These are just the acts that I feel are deserved (some more then others). Hopefully they will get in someday!

Posted by Gassman on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 16:04pm

Was just looking for perspective...too many people think every one of their "favorite" acts that aren't in are snubbed due to politics (even if there's a bit of truth in some cases), when in fact there are only so many acts that have gone down in history as all-timers...

Posted by Thanks Gassman on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 16:27pm

Someone else also mentioned Carole King, besides Gassman. She was inducted in 1990 in the non-performer category with Gerry Goffin. She was previously nominated once in 1988 for her solo career.
19 years later and no other nominations since, that's where the Hall is going to keep her as an inductee.

Posted by Tom Lane on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 18:02pm

"If I had to pick some that I feel may be questionable ..." - Gassman
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gassman, I started thinking about this, but then decided its kind of mean and ultimately pointless to try to decide now who doesnt belong. Do you want to un-invite them? Leave bygone be bygone. But yor point is well-taken, the house is just not big enough to "induct them all."
Also, I would NOT be in favor of "leaving it up to the fans" as somebody suggested. The 35 people on the nominating committee do get it right most of the time, I dont care what the naysayers say. Caveat: Some judges may be sell-outs, but MOST I think (hope?) are knowledgeable and trustworthy.

Posted by Telarock on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 19:31pm

REALISTIC



Jan & Dean- rivaled the Beach Boys

Stevie Ray Vaughan- overlooked last year

The Stooges- hopefully still considered

Chic- they seem determined to get them in

Beastie Boys- obligatory rap act

The Marvelettes- the RRHOF seems to like Motown

Dolly Parton- obligatory country artist

The Diamonds- returning to doo wop

Janet Jackson- they like modern pop nowadays, and possibly out of respect for Michael

War- a good choice from last year's ballot

EARLY INFLUENCE: Big Mama Thornton- she did Hound Dog and Ball and Chain



FANTASY



Def Leppard- the RRHOF needs to respect metal

The Cars- they need more new wave

Stray Cats- ignited the rockabilly revival

Chubby Checker- for once

Lou Rawls- one of the more romantic soul singers

The Zombies- possibly the most successful British Invasion band left

Donovan- mostly folk, but also crossed over into pop and psychedelic

John Fogerty- successful even beyond CCR

Kool & the Gang- they only have one funk group

KC and the Sunshine Band- why choose Chic over them?

EARLY INFLUENCE: Tommy Johnson- the last delta blues legend

Posted by Lucario on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 19:56pm

CORRECTION

I'd like to replace Donovan with Dick Dale, the King of Surf.

Posted by Lucario on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 20:04pm

Lucario, there is no "Obligatory Country Artist"... they haven't inducted a country artist in the Performer category since... I believe Johnny Cash, in '92

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 21:15pm

Correction, they did induct Brenda Lee in '01... forgot about her, and would have had Wanda, had she received enough votes.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 21:18pm

What I meant by obligatory country artist is that they seem to nominate country artists quite often, even if they're not inducted.

Posted by Lucario on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 21:33pm

Kind of hit and miss, really. Wanda and Brenda were in the "determined to induct no matter the cost" ilk... imo, at least. Wanda we can say that pretty confidently about... Brenda maybe. Only took her three. Other than those two, I think the last country act to be nominated since Johnny Cash was Conway Twitty, and most consider him to be a left-field pick.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 21:42pm

Gassman, for corrections, I'd also add The Silver Bullet Band with Bob Seger.

Posted by Steve Z on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 23:12pm

In Corrections, I'd add Joe Long, Gerry Polci, Don Ciccone, Demetri Callas, John Paiva, Rex Robinson, Larry Lingle and Tim Stone as part of the Four Seasons. Only the original four got to sign the wall and received statuettes.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 08.25.09 @ 23:16pm

I would agree with the Silver Bullet Band Steve Z. Yet I don't know about the other members of the Rour Seasons. If you do that you go down a slippery slope when it comes to other bands. IMO Dio should have been inducted with Black Sabbath. Also I don't think that Rob Trujillo should have been inducted with Metallica, he has only appeared on one album.

Posted by Gassman on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 11:39am

If the Silver Bullet band get in, they should induct the Miracles, Crickets, and Belmonts. Smokey Robinson would have been nothing without the Miracles. The Beatles named themselves after the Crickets.

HONORABLE MENTIONS

Donovan (see above)
The Searchers- very popular British Invasion band
The Monkees- very popular despite being bubblegum
Peter, Paul, and Mary- weren't afraid to go rock
George Thorogood- the poor man's Stevie Ray, so to speak
Steve Miller Band- every single is a classic rock staple
Guns N Roses- preserved the original metal in a world of glam
The Fixx- another early new wave act
The B-52s- another popular new wave act
Sugarhill Gang- had the first rap hit
EARLY INFLUENCE: Glenn Miller- popular big band leader

Posted by Lucario on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 12:34pm

How is George Thorgood "the poor man's Stevie Ray"? They sound nothing a like. George Thorgood is a great artist. And George Thorgood and the Delaware Destroyers first album came out years before SVR and Double Trouble.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 12:48pm

I meant "Thorogood" not "Thorgood."

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 12:51pm

Lucario, Guns N' Roses aren't eligible until 2011.

Posted by Tom Lane on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 14:41pm

Lucario, in my orginial post I listed the Mirical. Thanks for reminding me about the Crickets and the Belmonts.

Posted by Gassman on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 15:43pm

M-I-R-A-C-L-E-S ...And, you're RIGHT !!! Going to see a "Smokey Solo" live show wasn't NEARLY as exciting as seeing a "MIRACLES LIVE" show when they were still together.
....They didn't call them "The Showstoppers" for NOTHING !!!

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 17:52pm

Thorogood is more of a "poor man's Duane Allman" than SRV...Stevie Ray very rarely played slide (on one occasion, he tried to play the "Star Spangled Banner" with a slide at a Houston Astros game...and promptly got booed off the field).

They're two totally different players, very difficult to compare except they both play(ed) the blues...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 18:39pm

How sad Ellie Greenwich didn't live to see a worthy induction with her partner Jeff Barry. And what about Bacharach/David, Ashford/Simpson, Mann/Weil and Bell/Creed?

Posted by DPD on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 19:16pm

George Thorogood is in no way a "poor man's Duane Allman". George made some good bluesy music. And I personally think it's unfair to compare him to Allman. George once said it himself in an interview with Rolling Stone that, "I was never going to compete with Duane Allman or Ry Cooder or those cats."

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 19:54pm

Dude...I have to disagree with you. I don't think George is anywhere near the slide player that Allman or Cooder was/is. I'm not saying he's a bad player, but Cooder and Allman are a whole different plane of slide player (as an example...on "Layla", Allman was playing ABOVE the neck with incredible precision...not a false note to be heard). I'd have to put Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks in (or pretty close to) that class, also.

I can hold my own with Thorogood staples...and I'm not such a good slide player. He's had some commercial success and like I said, he's a good slide player...but those other guys are absolute magicians...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 20:24pm

George himself admits that he can't compete with Allman and Cooper. It's an unfair comparison. And Thorogood never intended to be a musician in the first place(he started out as a baseball player.)

And I personally think calling anyone a "Poor Man's [insert name here]" is a competely idiotic thing to do. I have never called Robert Plant a "Poor Man's Steve Marriott". Everybody has influence. And can you honestly find any George Thorogood that matches up perfectly to any Allman Brothers song? I doubt it.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 21:09pm

I meant any George Thorogood song.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 21:18pm

I don't think describing any artist as a "poor man's" anything is totally out of line, maybe it's just saying someone is good, but not quite in the same class as another...I think that referring to anyone giving an opinion as "idiotic" is...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 21:23pm

I apologize if I may have gotten out of line with the "idiotic" comment, but I find calling a person a "poor man's this or a poor man's that" is very disrespectful to an artist. It's not like "saying someone is good, but not quite in the same class as another" I believe it's more like "You suck, I only bought these tickets because no one wants to see Gregg by himself."

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 21:41pm

Well, that's not my outlook on it, and it never has been. With few exceptions I don't make it a habit of slamming other players, and I didn't this time, either (I think I made reference to the fact that Thorogood is a good player).

Oh, well...opinions vary!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 21:46pm

True, I think we can leave it at that.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 21:49pm

If Guns N Roses aren't eligible yet, Kiss should get in for being the epitome of glam metal.

Posted by Lucario on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 22:57pm

How are Kiss "the epitome of glam metal"? As Philip put it they may have "evolved into it" in '80s hair metal times and one of thier biggest influences was on that scene, but the image and music Kiss had in the '70s was shock rock/heavy metal(I don't get why some people call Kiss a glam rock band because thier image definately wasn't glam rock and thier music definately wasn't glam rock.) I myself have never been a big Kiss fan though.

Posted by Dude Man on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 23:18pm

If I had a choice between seeing George or SRV It would be George.. The guy is a rockin blues man ..
Love his SONGS

Posted by mrxyz on Wednesday, 08.26.09 @ 23:34pm

Lucario, I have a feeling that if we see a 60s British Invasion band it'll likely be The Small Faces not the Searchers. But thanks for giving The Searchers props.

Posted by Keebord on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 06:42am

Here's hoping Dick Dale gets in lol

Posted by Ogden on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 06:43am

Ogden, you better be careful mrxyz might have some silverware around....

Posted by Keebord on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 06:49am

Love me some Thorogood. Saw him & band years ago in Louisville. Played for 2 hours straight. My ears didn't stop ringing for 2 days (seats were about 40 feet from Lonesome George).

I like him better than SRV.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 06:52am

southsidejohnny&asburyjukes johneddie johncafferty&beaverbrown kilbytaylor rsteviemoore hasnt you realizd jersey rocks best.

Posted by b on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 07:27am

RIP, Ellie Greenwich

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 13:46pm

Rest in Peace Ellie Greenwich.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 14:06pm

Beastie Boys
Chic
Donna Summers
Gram Parsons
Joe Tex
Red Hot Chili Peppers
Sonic Youth
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Stooges

Six retreads, three newcomers (RHCP, SRV & Youth)


Inductees: Beasties/Parsons/Tex/RHCP/SRV

Posted by Casper on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 15:16pm

"If I had a choice between seeing George or SRV It would be George.. The guy is a rockin blues man ..
Love his SONGS"- mrxyz

mrxyz would rather listen to two cats fighting than Stevie Ray (who he probably never saw live, anyway). The fact of the matter is this...none of the old "blues masters" could play that way...not even close...period. He definitely took playing the blues to another level...it wasn't so easy any more. In direct comparison to Hendrix (as a player) "Little Wing" by Hendrix is a good song, but SRV's version is a rock instrumental masterpiece (and very difficult to play). I'd have to say he even upstaged him on "Voodoo Chile Slight Return". He was a master of embellishments and his speed with those HEAVY strings (his high "E" was a .013, I play with .011's, have very strong hands and they wear me out...absolutely incredible) was mind-boggling.

He was more original than given credit for, plus there are players who give accolades to others, but when Clapton first heard him on Bowie's "Let's Dance" album, he had to know who the guitarist was...that day!!! In SRV's last concert, Clapton also said "when Stevie was playing, I had to get away from the stage to maintain some sort of confidence...how was I going to follow him???"

This is Clapton we're talking about...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 17:36pm

RIP bass player for Bread Larry Knechtel

Studio musicain {Wrecking Crew}: Doors , Byrds ,Duane Eddy , Simon and Garfunkel, Godfather of Surf music jim Fuller ,Spector. Neil Diamond ,Dixie Chicks etc....

Posted by mrxyz on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 17:38pm

Rest in peace Larry Knechtel.

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 17:44pm

how was I going to follow him???"

This is Clapton we're talking about...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 17:36pm



lol.....That I can believe.... I will leave it at that..... Was he at the bar just before down beat ?
As I have said many times he is a good guitar player

Posted by mrxyz on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 17:49pm

THE BEST BAND DEF LEPPARD DEF LEPPARD DEF LEPPARD

Posted by Edison on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 18:20pm

"Clapton also said "when Stevie was playing, I had to get away from the stage to maintain some sort of confidence...how was I going to follow him???"

"This is Clapton we're talking about...!!!" - Gitarzan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Gitarzan, not to minimize SRVs skills, but Ive read more quotes coming from Clapton gushing about this blues player, or that blues player, to wit: Robert Johnson, Buddy Guy, Hendrix, SRV etc., etc. ... all of them deserving (in his mind) the ultimate superlatives. Its a pschological thing probly w/Clapton, but he loves to be a gusher of praise, and people love to quote him - afterall, he is inducted in RHOF 3 or 4 different ways. To the world: Please no more quotes from Clapton.

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 19:48pm

Telarock...if you've heard any of the audio from that night, I really don't think he was just saying that...that's how much at the top of his game SRV was that particular evening. If you ever get the opportunity listen to it, give it a whirl. It's just incredible.

I'm aware of the superlatives Clapton heaps on the "blues masters". On this night I really believe he was wondering how he was going to top what he was hearing...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 19:59pm

I am just wondering:

Has this message board discussion gone off the base? It seems we have gone from a well meaning argument of whom should be inducted, including on a personal notice the increased advocacy for Peter Gabriel's induction, into interesting messages that may or may not be at the topic at hand?

I am particularly wondering if we are all passing time before the editors of Future Rock Legends are going to announce their predictions. If that is the case, perhaps we should discuss the cases anew when the predictions are announced. I have my beliefs and inferences on whom will be inducted for the Class of 2010. Perhaps we will see others' predictions.

A shorter message than in the past weeks,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 20:43pm

Hi Lax26
I just can't wait much longer to find out who the great artist are also .
Let's cross our lucky fingers and hope some of our favorite musicians get in...

Posted by Rockinsue on Thursday, 08.27.09 @ 20:54pm

RIP Larry Knechtel & Ellie Greenwich

Posted by Keebord on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 03:39am

"It seems we have gone from a well meaning argument of whom should be inducted, including on a personal notice the increased advocacy for Peter Gabriel's induction ..." - Lax26
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
So we've gone off base, huh Lax? I take that (from you) to mean we havent discussed yor favorite candidate (vs SRV?) ... Funny, I checked his (PG's) page and not a single entry about yor man by you (on his own page)? ... none on Genesis page either? Why is that? Nevermind, I dont need/want to know. Lets stay focussed here. (I really gotta find something else to do in my afternoons.)

Posted by Telarock on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 11:59am

The RRHOF seem to want a diverse lineup, so hows about this?

Hip Hop: Sugarhill Gang
Motown/Soul: Marvelettes
Country: Dolly Parton
Classic Rock: Stevie Ray Vaughan
Punk/New Wave: Stooges
Early Rock: Bobby Vinton
Doo Wop: Diamonds
Blues: Stevie Ray Vaughan
Pop: Monkees
Folk: Donovan
Early Influence: Big Mama Thornton

Posted by Lucario on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 13:21pm

Whoops! Classic rock should be represented by Def Leppard.

Posted by Lucario on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 13:28pm

Def Leppard classic rock? Now I know I'm old. . . .

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 19:28pm

Telarock wrote:
It's a psychological thing probably w/Clapton, but he loves to be a gusher of praise, and people love to quote him - after all, he is inducted in RHOF 3 or 4 different ways. To the world: Please no more quotes from Clapton.

Your right we need more comments from you and other people on this site. Let's not hear what one of the greatest guitarist of our time has to say about another player. If Eric Clapton comments that a particular guitarist really impresses him, we will just treat the statement as pure dribble and ignore it and move on to more insightful comments from other people on this site.

I'm not totally sure, but I believe at one time I heard a quote from Clapton that he didn't care for Eddie Van Halen's playing, I could be wrong but I think I remember him saying that. So I don't think he always praises everyone he hears. Eddie is an amazing player but he's not everyone favorite, nor is Clapton or Stevie Ray Vaughn. But they are all at the top of their game and, without a doubt Steve Should already be in.

SpaceTrucker

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 20:58pm

Telarock wrote:
It's a psychological thing probably w/Clapton, but he loves to be a gusher of praise, and people love to quote him - after all, he is inducted in RHOF 3 or 4 different ways. To the world: Please no more quotes from Clapton.

Your right we need more comments from you and other people on this site. Let's not hear what one of the greatest guitarist of our time has to say about another player. If Eric Clapton comments that a particular guitarist really impresses him, we will just treat the statement as pure dribble and ignore it and move on to more insightful comments from other people on this site.

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 20:58pm
--------------------------------------------------
No offense here, Truck, but I'm w/Telarock on this one. My issue probably stems from the idea of any elitism out there, but I know I can't stand it when the rich & famous look down on us peons and try to guide us in the "correct" direction. Not necessarily saying Clapton is trying to do that in this case. It's simply that it get's harder & hsrder these days to figure out who's geniune & who's on an ego trip.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 08.29.09 @ 04:44am

You have to think like the Rock Hall now...

Chic
The Hollies
Tom Waits
John Coltrane
Todd Rundgren
The Stooges
The Beastie Boys
Donna Summer
Red Hot Chilli Peppers

Posted by QAZ on Saturday, 08.29.09 @ 06:54am

QAZ, I like your picks, but I'm not sure about Coltrane... seems a little offbeat, but then again, we all have a left-field pick. Mine's Gary U.S. Bonds.

As far as Todd and Tom together... not saying it couldn't happen, but I don't see them putting two artiste-ic singer/songwriters on the ballot together. It'd potentially split the ballot against each other.

But I think you've got some solid calls on there, and not just because you've got four of my picks too.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.29.09 @ 07:37am

I didn't think much about Clapton's statement about that night until I actually heard some underground clips of it (too bad some dumbass promoter didn't videotape it...Fey Productions used to always videotape shows and came up with stuff like U2's Red Rocks performance...you never know when you're going to be taping history in rock), and by what I heard, I honestly think Clapton...maybe for the first time in his career...didn't know how he was going to follow someone.

On that night, SRV was THAT good...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.29.09 @ 07:41am

"Has this message board discussion gone off the base? It seems we have gone from a well meaning argument of whom should be inducted, including on a personal notice the increased advocacy for Peter Gabriel's induction, into interesting messages that may or may not be at the topic at hand?"

So because we're not lauding Peter Gabriel, we're off-topic? Count the votes, Lax, the number of people predicting/wish-listing Stevie Ray Vaughan is pretty high, I'd say more than are for Peter Gabriel. Discussing the merits for SRV is on-topic because many of us are behind him.

Although, passing time is an apt descriptor too. The NomCom hasn't even met yet as far as we know. And the FRL people don't have their picks up either. So yeah, maybe we're passing time too. But we're still on topic.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.29.09 @ 08:22am

Any chance there will be 25 nominees this year for their 25th anniversary? And 10 inductees in the performers category?

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 08.29.09 @ 20:08pm

A chance? Yes. A realistic chance? No.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.29.09 @ 22:52pm

How about 250 nominees on the ballot, with 126 guaranteed induction. That way, if anybody complains about not being inducted, they could say, "Shut the [beep] up. Remember 2010? You had your [beep]ing chance." . . .

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 08:46am

ROFL!

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 10:53am

How about 250 nominees on the ballot, with 126 guaranteed induction. That way, if anybody complains about not being inducted, they could say, "Shut the [beep] up. Remember 2010? You had your [beep]ing chance." . . .


Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 08:46am
--------------------------------------------------
Do not be suprised if something like this doesn't happen, but in a roundabout way. Obviously they'll never put all those folks on the ballot. What you might see happen is an expansion of the ballot, maybe even in another 2-3 yrs time, as more new blood makes it's way to their voting board.

The key will be getting around the old guard. A certain few will hardline over the issue. Mostly it's those w/a gripe over some band they don't want in. Over time, if they leave the panel, and a band they don't care for is inducted, they can always say they had nothing to do w/it. They can just sit and stew in their own juice over it if they want.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 11:08am

Cheesecrop, that's a very good post. It's what a lot of Rock Hall followers (meaning people on this site) have been saying for years. The Nominating Committee needs some new blood on it. Rotating some of the old guard with fresh voices might result in a different ballot. That's not to say fresh voices will get names like Rush, Kiss, Alice Cooper etc. on the ballot, but those artists chances would be enchanced.

Posted by Tom Lane on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 12:43pm

TO BE LOGICAL

Beastie Boys
Chic
Zombies
Marvelettes
Diamonds
Chubby Checker
Dick Dale
Janet Jackson
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Stooges
EARLY INFLUENCE: Big Mama Thornton

Posted by Lucario on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 19:12pm

It is okay, Tom.

Regarding the nominating committee, it is very probable to conclude that a good deal of artists already inducted included those that certain members of the nomination committee do not want inducted. Yet, it would be disheartening to not see such an induction of these artists. It could be a whole heck of a lot worse; as I have said, if it were just up to them, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would have already inducted by now The Kingsmen, Zagar and Evans, Tommy Roe, Chubby Checker, and just about ANY act from the mid-1950s through mid-1960s that had a hit song. And that would be downright nutty.

What this forum and web site has provided is a knowledge and inference of putting rightful inductions into reality. In these more recent posts, Stevie Ray Vaughan's long-overdue consideration for induction has been brought forward. In my end, our discussions involving Peter Gabriel have been fruitful. We have also discussed the merits of quite a number of other artists most deserving of induction. There are even a few acts not fully discussed that I think are worthy of induction: these include Boston along with Brad Delp on other recordings, Neil Finn on his own and with Split Enz and Crowded House, Kate Bush, Bad Religion, Kansas alongside the individual albums of Kerry livgren and Steve Morse, 10cc, Husker Du, Bob Mould, Blue Oyster Cult, Japan, David Sylvian, Devo, Eric Johnson, Herbie Hancock, Julian Cope, Luther Vandross, Teena Marie, Kenny Loggins, Mott the Hoople, Ian Hunter, Nick Lowe, The Chi-Lights, Oingo Boingo, The Raspberries, Neil Innes, Eric Idle, Soft Machine, Robert Wyatt, The Scorpions, Scott Walker, Spinal Tap, The System, The Residents, The Tubes alongside solo Vince Welnick, Tommy Bolin, amongst others. And those are just the other not fully mentioned acts I have on my iPod alone!

Roy seems to get it right this time; I do think that while realistically we will have five inductees out of nine finalists, for this occasion we will see ten inductees out of twenty-five finalists. Maybe, just maybe, there will be 25 inductees! We do not know for sure. What I do know is that I infer that Peter Gabriel, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), The Eurythmics, Donna Summer, and Chic will be inducted in the Class of 2010: heck, I will go for six and add Stevie Ray Vaughan in my inferences. Now, it is only an inference, yet it is most likely for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to induct.

Hopefully, in the coming near future, a great deal of these acts I have mentioned in this and other posts, along with a noted amount of others are given the consideration they so richly deserve. Dick Clark once said, "Music is the Soundtrack of your Life." I and others can with certainty say that those great artists I have listed, and the many others we have discussed, have been an integral part of all of our lives; and they will last in our times. Better these fine artists than the crud spilt out then and now; for instance, Frank Sinatra was one of the best; Michael Buble is a person that is highly mediocre. And yet Buble happens to be more popular with the younger crowd than Sinatra would be with these fans. Dissapointing really.

"Into the Unknown" is a very under-valued Bad Religion album,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 19:42pm

"If Eric Clapton comments that a particular guitarist really impresses him, we will just treat the statement as pure dribble and ignore it and move on to more insightful comments from other people on this site." (sarcasm)
(Posted by SpaceTrucker on Friday, 08.28.09 @ 20:58pm)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
SpaceTrucker, at the risk of going "off base" (which might offend Lax) I will answer this statement of yours. As you must know, Clapton has run an event called Crossroads Guitar Festival, which generally showcases guitar artistry. The performances are also put out on DVD for retail distribution. Clapton unabashedly promotes all his guests and/or anyone connected w/ blues guitar history. Now, heres some history you may not know, offered for consideration: *Jon Landau once wrote in Rolling Stone that Clapton was merely a "master of blues clichés". This was while he was playing with Cream. And Clapton was so undone by this criticism, that by some accounts it actually contributed to the undoing of Cream as a group. Furthermore, I often get the feeling from Clapton, that he personally is so indebted to black American blues artists that he bends over backwards (forwards/sideways?) to give them their props (which he should). But you get a sense that he has some kind of a complex about it.

I dont know what Clapton may have said about Van Halen (good or bad?). If you want to embrace his quotes, go ahead. But I take them w/ several grains of salt cause it seems to me Clapton is predisposed to the gushing of praise, both for commercial and psychological reasons. Sorry to have to shrink-wrap Clapton like that, but all these quotes are beginning to grate (which aint great).

footnote:
*Jon Landau is now head of the RHOF NomCom and Clapton has been vindicated many times over - but, he was very sensitive at that time about the negative criticism.

Posted by Telarock on Sunday, 08.30.09 @ 21:45pm

OK last shot, make of it what you will:

Deep Purple (70s/hard rock heavyweights/Ritchie Blackmore and Jon Lord both deserve credit. In addition, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Van Halen and Aerosmith are all in, so why not Deep Purple?)
The Crystals (Little Anthony & The Imperials and Bobby Womack were both inducted last year. Plus, Phil Spector might just get some new credit despite the fact that “He hit me and it felt like a kiss.”)
Beastie Boys (With the addition of a rap act every year for the past few years, the Beastie Boys are the most likely candidate of all the eligible rap acts)
Tom Waits (Seems like the kind of guy the committee would like)
T. Rex (Glam rock pioneers/Deceased frontman Marc Bolan’s charisma/David Bowie and Queen are already in)
The Stooges (Been nominated every year or every other year for as long as anybody can remember/Ron Asheton death last year might give Iggy & Co the recognition they deserve)
Stevie Ray Vaughan (80s Blues heavy weight. Wasn’t nominated first year eligible but this also happened to Metallica. Maybe SRV will be this year’s Metallica?)
Genesis (It’s been 13 years since a progressive rock act has gone in, maybe 13 will be a lucky number for Genesis. Let’s not forget that Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel both played in Genesis and this could prove to be a valuable asset.)

I would also keep an eye out for The Replacements, The Jam, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Janet Jackson, Cheap Trick, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Dire Straits, Yes and The Small Faces. In terms of other categories, Quincy Jones might get Lifetime Achievement (But I still can’t stand “We Are the World” worst song of all time in my books), Wolfman Jack might get Non-Performer, Link Wray might get Early Influence (He doesn’t really fit the criteria but neither did Wanda Jackson) and the Sideman category could be anyone’s guess (Allow me to nominate: The Miracles, The E Street Band, The Crickets and The Comets)

Posted by Keebord on Monday, 08.31.09 @ 06:07am

"Michael Buble is a person that is highly mediocre." - Lax26
Well theres an oxymoron I never heard. Maybe Buble should get now some lessons (fm Gabriel) on how to be an excellent person?

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 08.31.09 @ 07:45am

THE CARPENTERS!!!
THIS GROUP SHOULD HAVE BEEN INDUCTED A LONG TIME AGO! COME ON AND WAKE UP HALL OF FAME!!!!

Posted by Scott on Monday, 08.31.09 @ 16:25pm

Enough with the 50s/early 60s doo-wop groups already; no one under the age of grizzled old drooling farts CARES!

Posted by No Peter Paul & Mary either on Saturday, 08.8.09 @ 14:36pm

Just a darn shame for you that "grizzled old drooling farts" are the ones doing the inducting isn't it?

Posted by Orange on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 05:10am

Here are my predictions for who will be nominated for the upcoming 2010 class.....

The Beastie Boys
Chic
Deep Purple
The Hollies
Janet Jackson
Joe Tex
Paul Revere and the Raiders
Stevie Ray Vaughan
The Stooges

If anyone is interested in why and how I made my predictions, let me know, and I'll be happy to e-mail you a blog I posted on my Myspace page detailing how I made my selections and why I chose them.

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 06:21am

SEPTEMBER IS HERE! THE NOMINEES SHOULD BE ANNOUNCED VERY SOON!

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 07:34am

The 2010 Rock And Roll Hall of Fame Nominees:

War
Chic (nominated many times)
Gram Parsons (nominated many times)
The Stooges (because one member just died; nominated many times)
Todd Rundgren (because he's getting an exhibit at the Rock Hall)
The Beastie Boys (because one member has cancer)
Donna Summer (because she's the queen)
The Red Hot Chilli Peppers (because Flea gave the induction speech for Metallica)

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 07:42am

Donnie, please post them here for all to see. It'd be awesome for us all to read and discuss it. Don't be afraid. I mean, I picked the Shangri-Las as one of my "Bubbling Under" potentials because I just had this weird flash that said to me, "This could be their year!" Your reasons couldn't be any weirder than that. Post it here. No matter how long the post is, I know most of us regulars would love to read it.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 13:49pm

I can't believe Lou Rawls doesn't have a page on here yet!

Posted by QAZ on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 19:29pm

Sounds good Philip. My blog on my predictions was pretty long, which was why I was hesitant to post it here, but I'll try to shorten it down as much as possible.

Before I post my reasonings for my predictions, I'll first explain some trends/patterns I've noticed over the last few year's in the HOF's selections. I’ve noticed that in the last three years/classes, there have been about five different “categories” that all of the nominated artists fit under. Here they are.

1. “Newly Eligible Artists/Headliners” (2 artists)

This category usually features either artists that are eligible for the first time, or that have only been eligible for about 1-3 years and are being nominated for the first time. These artists are usually big-time acts that will get the Hall mainstream press and coverage, and in 2009’s case, sell tickets to the concerts. Examples include:

2007: REM (first time eligible, and inducted) and Van Halen (eligible for 3 years, nominated for the first time and inducted)

2008: Madonna (first time eligible and inducted) and the Beastie Boys (first time eligible but not inducted)

2009: Run-DMC (first time eligible and inducted) and Metallica (2nd year eligible and first time nominated then inducted)


2. “Rap Artists” (1-2 artists)

Beings Rap has been eligible for the Hall for about 5 years now, now there is usually 1-2 rap artists on the ballot. Examples include:

2007: Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five

2008: Afrika Bambaataa and the Beastie Boys

2009: Run-DMC


3. “R&B/Disco Artists” (2-3 artists)

There are usually about 2-3 artists that could be classified under R&B/Soul and/or Disco. Disco I wouldn’t even really put in this category except for Chic is nominated every year, so they kind of bring the “Disco” to this category. Examples include:

2007: Chic and Joe Tex

2008: Chic and Donna Summer

2009: Chic, Bobby Womack, Little Anthony and the Imperials, War

2009 was unusual in that they went with 4 artists in this “category,” so that shows that the Hall doesn’t always literally go with my “theories” on this.


4. “Singer-Songwriter/Rock/Other Rock sub-genre Artists” (2-4 artists)

This category tends to feature usually a male singer/songwriter type artist, and a couple of other artists that are “rock” or of another sub-genre of rock such as “glam rock,” “punk,” “metal,” “country-rock” or something else. If the artists in the “headliners” category are rock artists, they could also be in this category. Examples include:

2007: REM (Headliner), Van Halen (Headliner), The Stooges, Patti Smith

2008: Leonard Cohen and John Mellencamp

2009: Metallica (Headliner), Jeff Beck, and the Stooges


5. “Oldies/Early Rock and Roll/R&B Artists” (2-3 artists)

And finally this category usually consists of artists that were prominent in the 1950’s and/or the early-to mid 1960’s. Artists from either rock and roll and/or R&B typically fill in this category. Examples include:

2007: The Dave Clark Five and the Ronettes

2008: The Dave Clark Five and the Ventures

2009: Little Anthony and the Imperials and Wanda Jackson


I’m of course not claiming that anything above is official or how the Hall really does it, but those are just my theories on how the Hall works in their nominations. I’ve come up with those theories based off of analyzing each nominations list from 2007 on (when they first started the “9 nominees/5 inductees” format). And of course any nominated artist can fit in 2 or more categories.

So with that said, I’ll then list my reasons for my predictions in another post.

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 20:37pm

In advance, this is all IMO, and despite my tone I use on these predictions, I'm not really saying these are definite picks. The Hall always goes a direction we never expect. So without further ado, here are my predictions....


The Beastie Boys


The Beastie Boys could fall under two categories here. The "New Artists/Headliners" category, and the "Rap Artists" category. Although I will put them as my "rap nominee" rather than the newer "headliner" nominees. The Beastie Boys were previously nominated in 2008, but didn't make the cut then, in a move that was surprising to me (I certainly didn't see Leonard Cohen getting in over the Beastie Boys). Out of all of the rap artists that are currently eligible, the Beastie Boys are by far the biggest act, and thus I think will make the nominations list. The other rap artists currently eligible include The Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow, the Treacherous Three, and Afrika Bambaataa (who was also nominated in 2008). I don't feel that the Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow, and the Treachourous Three are big enough names to appear on the ballot, so it was down to Afrika or the Beasties. So I think the Beasties will get the nod. This could also be a sympathy nod, because group member Adam "MCA" Yauch was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year. So they have the emotional story/sympathy nod on their side here.

So for my "rap nominee" I'm going with the Beastie Boys.



Chic

Chic fall under the "R&B/Disco" category. Heck I wouldn't even include "Disco" in that category if it weren't for Chic being nominated every year for the last 5 years or so, considering no other Disco acts (other than the Bee Gees and Donna Summer) have ever been nominated. Chic were first nominated in 2003, and then have been nominated every single year from 2006 on. This would make for their 6th nomination. Obviously the RNRHOF Nominating Committee wants Chic in the HOF, and I would say they will continue to nominate them until the Voting Committee finally gives in and votes for them. This is pretty much a given I'd say. Though I will be pleasantly surprised if they don't make the ballot. In the past, when an artist has been nominated over a period of a few years, if they didn't make it, the Hall would usually take a break on them and not nominate them for a few years. This could possibly happen to Chic, but I'm not betting on it. Expect to see Chic on the ballot again this year.



Deep Purple

This would by far be the most shocking nomination of the artists I'm predicting. Not because Deep Purple are un-deserving or are terrible (which they're obviously not, they're one of the greats). It would be shocking because the HOF notoriously looks down on metal and hard rock music. Very few metal and hard rock bands are in the HOF (Hendrix, Cream, Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Queen, AC/DC, Black Sabbath, Van Halen, and Metallica), and thus pretty much any metal or hard rock band doesn't really stand much of a chance in the HOF. Unless the "Nominating Committee" members change lineups, this will probably continue. But Metallica's induction in 2009 certainly could change this idea. Metallica is by far the heaviest band in the RNRHOF and they clearly have influence with some of the people in the HOF. Their albums have always been critically acclaimed, they're the only metal/hard rock act appearing at the upcoming 25th Anniversary concerts, and the guys are just generally well liked by critics, who also happen to people that run the HOF. So if they choose to speak out for some of the more harder rock and metal acts that have influenced them, the Hall may listen. And they have already done that. Right after they were inducted, they made comments to the press saying the Hall doesn't have enough metal and hard rock bands, and that bands like Rush, Motorhead, UFO, and .......DEEP PURPLE should be in the Hall immediately. So, with Metallica's induction and (Black Sabbath's induction in 2006), hard rock and metal music in particular has a bigger chance of getting recognition from the Hall than it ever has before. It may take a few years for this to occur, but I have a gut feeling that this year's ballot will feature a metal/hard rock artist. Deep Purple, Rush, Motorhead, and UFO, in particular were pointed out by Metallica of deserving induction. And of those four, Deep Purple by far has the biggest chance of being inducted. They've already been previously considered by the Hall, they are constantly near the top of many fan polls for artists deserving induction, and are the most critically acclaimed and influential of the bunch. They're the biggest early metal band in the Hall that is not in (besides Alice Cooper). This would be a big time shocker, and I could (and probably will be) wrong. But I'm going out on a limb here and calling it, the Hall will stun everyone and nominate Deep Purple. *prepares to have pies and rotten fruit be thrown at self*



The Hollies

The Hollies fall under the "oldies/mid '60s rock" category. The Hollies have gotten quite a bit of hype and discussion on their possible nomination for the last two years. Quite a few members of the "Nominating Committee" have been vocal in their support and admiration for the Hollies. Steve Van Zandt (of the E-Street Band) in particular. The Hollies would fit the bill of being the "oldies" act to be on the ballot. Plus, Graham Nash got his start in this band, and as of now, he is the only members of Crosby, Stills, Nash, & Young to not be in the HOF twice. Look for that to change this year. I predicted them to appear on last year's ballot, and surprisingly they didn't. I think that won't happen again. Look for the Hollies to be on the upcoming ballot.



Janet Jackson

Janet falls under the "Newly Eligible Artists/Headliners" category. The way I see it, there are four real contenders for the 2 spots in the "Newly Eligible Artists/Headliners" category. Two of them being female pop/R&B stars of the '80s, Janet Jackson and Whitney Houston. And the other two are male, rock artists: Stevie Ray Vaughan (who was shockingly not nominated last year), and the Red Hot Chili Peppers who like Whitney Houston, will also become eligible for the first time this year. The Hall will want a female artist on the ballot, and also want to occupy their "Headliners" category who will get the Hall mainstream press coverage and draw in fans. So it will come down to Janet or Whitney Houston. Janet Jackson has been eligible since 2007 and hasn't been nominated yet. This is the first year that Whitney Houston will be eligible for the HOF. Both artists have advantages to their nomination. Whitney is getting a lot of attention and hype now due to her comeback album coming out this year. If the album doesn't end up a flop and becomes a big success, this would make for the perfect opportunity to honor and celebrate Whitney's comeback, with an induction into the RNRHOF. And the Hall has had a first time eligible artist on their official inductees list for the last three years (Run-DMC in 2009, Madonna in 2008, and REM in 2007). Whitney could fit the bill here.

Before the summer began, I probably would've went with Whitney for nomination and induction. But, that was until Michael Jackson passed away in June. As sad as his death was, that brought renewed attention to the Jackson family, and with Janet being eligible for the RNRHOF, this would be the perfect opportunity to pay tribute to Janet, Michael, and the Jacksons, by inducting Janet. Janet will have the sympathy of the world on her, and the Hall loves a good story as much as anyone. Janet is also one of the biggest pop stars of the last 25 years, and has been eligible for a few years. Even if Michael had lived on, it would only be a matter of time before she got nominated and inducted. But with his passing, there is so much attention on the Jacksons right now, that the Hall will want to capitalize on that, and will nominate and then induct Janet. Especially if the Hall is having another concert like they did for the 2009 class. If they want to sell tickets, fans will come in huge numbers to see Janet live and through her concert, pay tribute to Michael.

There is of course the possibility that they could nominate both Whitney Houston and Janet Jackson, but I don't find that to be likely as that would split the voters and potentially cause neither one to be inducted. So look for Janet Jackson to be on the ballot. With Whitney being inducted in 2011 or later.



Joe Tex

Joe is the other artist (along with Chic and "headliner" Janet Jackson) who falls in the "R&B/Disco" category, thus bringing the number of those types of artists on the ballot to three artists. I think that's pretty good. Joe Tex I don't feel is as deserving as other R&B artists (ala Barry White, War, Donna Summer, Chaka Kahn, Patti Labelle, The Spinners, Harold Melvin and the Blue-Notes, Luther Vandross, Ben E. King, etc.), but when I was looking at the R&B artists that are eligible and that I strongly considered, I ended up going with Joe, more as a "safe choice." He's been nominated three times previously (in 1998, 2006, and 2007). Beings it's been about three years since he's been nominated, I think the Hall may try again to get him inducted. I don't think he's a definite pick, as besides Chic and Janet (who I think are two sure-fires), there are plenty of other artists who could fill the other "R&B nominee" spot. War was a "left-field" pick last year, but I don't see the Nominating Committee continuously nominating them. And there are acts like Barry White, Luther Vandross, the Commodores, Patti Labelle, Chaka Kahn, Harold Melvin and the Blue-Notes, and the Spinners who have never been nominated before and could potentially appear on the ballot. But ultimately, I think we'll see Joe Tex on the ballot for his 4th go-around.



Paul Revere and the Raiders

This is the other "oldies/early-mid '60s rock and roll" pick along with the Hollies. This one is going to be my "curveball" pick that hardly no one else will probably be thinking of or predicting. I have read a bit of stuff about a few people in the HOF supporting them (I believe Steve Van Zandt is also a fan). In recent years, the Sir Douglas Quintet, the Dave Clark Five, the Ventures, and other somewhat overlooked mid '60s acts have been nominated, so I'm just going to go with Paul Revere and the Raiders here. I can think of plenty more acts such as the Zombies, the Moody Blues, the Monkees, etc. who are far more deserving, but those picks would be too "obvious." So yeah, my pick that no one will see coming is none other than Paul Revere and the Raiders.


Stevie Ray Vaughan

This is the other "Newly Eligible Artist/Headliner" nominee. Now he's not newly eligible, as he first became eligible last year, but that's new enough. And he hasn't been nominated before. I was really surprised that he wasn't nominated last year, but looking back, I can see now why he wasn't. Metallica was eligible for the first time the year before that and didn't get nominated. So I'm kind of noticing a pattern here. Perhaps the HOF is going to nominate big time hard rock/rock artists the year after they first become eligible. Metallica was first eligible in 2008, didn't get nominated, but instead got nominated and inducted in 2009. Stevie Ray Vaughan was first eligible in 2009, but didn't get nominated. If that's the case, then he should appear on the ballot this time around. The other big time rock act that falls in the "Newly Eligible Artist/Superstar Act" category are the Red Hot Chili Peppers who are eligible for the first time this upcoming class. They of course have a big time chance of appearing on the ballot and are more popular and revered by younger music audiences today than SRV. Considering they're still having hit albums and hit songs, are still on MTV, and are still played quite a bit on modern rock radio (which is something you can't really say for SRV). However, I think the HOF will go with that pattern and wait to induct RHCP later on, and thus will go with SRV this time around. RHCP's time may come in 2011 or later. This year will go to Stevie Ray Vaughan IMO. For the same reason that Janet Jackson and Whitney Houston will not both appear on the ballot, both RHCP and SRV will not be on the ballot together either. If that happens, they'll probably split the voters making it less likely for either to be inducted. So the "Nominating Committee" will more than likely have to choose between the two, and I think this time they'll go with Stevie Ray Vaughan, and go for RHCP either next year or later on.


The Stooges

And finally we come to our final nominee, the Stooges. The Stooges fall under the "Rock/Other" category. I almost didn't go with the Stooges, as I thought that maybe the "Nominating Committee" might take another break on the Stooges after their highly disappointing snub for the 2009 class (one that I'm still scratching my head at. How did the voters choose Bobby Womack and Little Anthony and the Imperials over the Stooges?!!!). But then I remembered that if they make the ballot again, this will be their 8th nomination, which I believe would give them automatic induction. I've never been entirely sure of this, but I thought I read somewhere that after inducting Gene Pitney in 2002, who had been nominated 8 times, they installed a rule that after an artist is nominated 8 times, they will automatically be inducted. I'm not sure if that's an official rule, but if it is then that would make the Hall surely want to nominate the Stooges to ensure their induction. And if it's not, past history is still on the Stooges' side here. I was looking at a chart of all of the artists that are currently inducted, how many years each had to wait, and how many times they were nominated before being inducted. With the exception of Solomon Burke (who was nominated 10 times before finally being inducted in 2001), there has never been an artist who was nominated 8 times and didn't end up being inducted. Some of the past inductees that were nominated 8 times and inducted their 8th time include Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers (1993 inductee), Duane Eddy (1994 inductee), Little Willie John (1996 inductee), Gene Pitney (2002 inductee), and Black Sabbath (2006 inductee). So if the Stooges get nominated for an 8th time, they have a pretty much guaranteed shot of being inducted finally. Plus, not to mention, lead guitarist for the band Ron Asheton passed away in January. I wasn't sure if that would be able to get them inducted for 2009, as the votes had probably already been tallied and finalized before Ron died. That was obviously the case as they didn't get inducted. But the sympathy vote, like with Janet Jackson and the Beastie Boys, could also work in the favor of an 8th nomination for the Stooges. So I'm looking for the Stooges to appear on the ballot once again for the 8th, and hopefully final time.


So there you have it. My final predictions for the 9 artists that will be nominated for induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2010 are as follows.....


The Beastie Boys
Chic
Deep Purple
The Hollies
Janet Jackson
Joe Tex
Paul Revere and the Raiders
Stevie Ray Vaughan
The Stooges

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 20:44pm

I've also read a lot of talk on here about the possibility of increasing the number of artists on the ballot this year, because of this class being the 25th class of the HOF.

So with that in mind (and because I'm sure I'll be wrong on at least some of my predictions), as an added bonus here are 15 "runners-up" artists who could appear on the ballot to take the spot of one of my predicted artists, or to increase the number of artists on the ballot....


The "5" Royales

Popular and Influential R&B group of the 1950's. They were nominated in 2001 and 2002 and have been highly regarded by artists such as Eric Clapton and Steve Cropper (of Booker T. and the MG's), in addition to critic Dave Marsh, who is one of the most influential people on the "Nominating Committee" for the RNRHOF (he is also arguably the biggest opponent to the nominating and induction of KISS). I wouldn't be suprised to see them on the ballot again as they would occupy both the "Oldies/Early Rock and Roll/R&B" category and/or the "R&B/Disco" category.

Afrika Bambaataa

He is IMO the only other eligible rap artist who has a legitimate shot of being inducted (besides the much more popular and greater, Beastie Boys). He was nominated in 2008, and could very easily take the Beasties' spot on the ballot for the "rap nominee." I think it will ultimately go to the Beastie Boys, but the HOF has been known to go against convention before. And if the ballot features more artists than before, then look for both to be on the ballot.

The Commodores

With the death of Michael Jackson in June, his co-writer of "We are the World," Lionel Richie, also received more press and media attention, thanks to the constant clips of the video for the song on the TV coverage of Michael's death, and it's popularity on the downloaded songs charts. His daughter has also become a popular pop culture icon in this decade. Lionel may get a nomination for his own solo career, but I think the Hall will go with a nomination for the Commodores instead, as their work was much more influential and just flat out better than his solo work. Plus, they've been previously considered already. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get their first nomination.

The Dire Straits

I'm surprised that the Dire Straits have yet to be even be considered let alone nominated. They fit the bill for what the critics in the Rock Hall typically go for. They were commercial (meaning they had commerical success), but yet not majorly commerical either. Mark Knopfler has always been a highly respected guitar player, and their work has always been praised and respected by critics. They were around in the "arena-rock" era of music which is mostly looked down upon, but they always stayed away from that scene and were kind of considered a unique, original band in that time. They weren't a loud, obnoxious, flashy, party type band, which should be a plus in their favor. I could see them being one of those generally overlooked acts that the Rock Hall notices and awards with a nomination.

Dick Dale

This man has been criminally overlooked for over 20 years. He is "the King of the Surf Guitar" after all. The Hall in recent years has inducted artists that are in Dick's specific genre, and musical role; that of surf rock artists, and virtuoso guitar players. The Ventures were inducted in 2008 (another one of the architects of "surf rock"), and Jeff Beck was inducted last year (another guitar virtuoso). Dick Dale could be next in line to represent "surf rock" in the HOF. He would also fit under the "oldies/early rock and roll" category. But if the ballot only features 9 artists and SRV is on the ballot, Dick will have a tough time appearing. If the ballot features more artists though, he may have a shot at getting his first, and long overdue, nomination.

Donna Summer

Donna will have a tough time making the ballot with Whitney Houston becoming eligible, and renewed attention and interest in Janet Jackson and the Jackson family as a whole. Janet and Whitney, along with Madonna, are the two biggest examples of artists in the '80s that took what Donna did in the '70s, and made bigger. That being the ultimate female pop divas. Donna wasn't able to dethrone Madonna in the 2008 ballot, and if Whitney and/or Janet appear on this year's ballot, I doubt Donna will be able to overcome their star power either. But if neither artist miraculously makes the ballot, then I bet Donna will be on it instead. And again, if the ballot has more artists, she's got a legitimate shot at getting her 2nd nomination.

Gram Parsons

Gram is always a solid contender for the HOF. He has been nominated three times previously (in 2002, 2004, and 2005). He is considered to be the architect of "country-rock" for shifting the Byrds' musical style towards it on the 1968 landmark album, Sweetheart of the Rodeo, for forming one of the earliest "country-rock" bands, the Flying Burrito Brothers, and for his own notable, but too brief solo career. With the lack of country-styled artists in the HOF, and being a critics darling, Gram is always a possibility for nomination and induction.

John Coltrane

This one would be a tremendous "curveball" nomination much like Miles Davis was for 2006. His nomination is one hardly no one would think of, yet makes complete sense too. Miles Davis and John Coltrane are the big two jazz artists that are constantly mentioned and praised in rock circles. Many rock artists cite his influence, and his albums often appear on greatest albums lists in just about every notable music magazine (including Rolling Stone who is highly influential on the RNRHOF process). If the Hall wants to induct more jazz artists in the "Performers" category, with Miles Davis already in the HOF, the next logical choice is of course John Coltrane.

Johnny Burnette and the Rock and Roll Trio

This is another early rock and roll artist that Steve Van Zandt (of the E-Street Band) is a major fan of and has pushed for. They're one of the most notable early rock and roll acts to have never been nominated, so you could say a nomination for them is probably overdue. If the ballot goes with a '50s act (like they did in 2009 with Wanda Jackson), which my predictions failed to do, this could be the '50s act you see on the ballot.

Junior Walker and the All-Stars

This year has been the 50th Anniversary of Motown Records. Most of the major Motown acts are currently in the HOF, but there are still a few notable Motown acts that are not in the HOF yet. Junior Walker and the All-Stars is probably the most notable of these groups (although a case could also be made for Mary Welles, The Marvelettes, Shorty Long, the Velvelettes, and of course the Miracles who weren't inducted with Smokey Robinson in 1987). The Miracles are actually the most notable Motown group not in the HOF, but unfortunately I just don't see the HOF actually acknowledging one of their mistakes and induct them. I think the Hall will see them as "sidemen" unfortunately and thus will not, in their eyes, waste an induction on a side-group. So, if the Miracles won't get the nod, then to me that leaves Junior Walker and the All-Stars. If the Hall decides to celebrate the 50th Anniversary of Motown, I could see them being on the ballot.

Lou Reed

Lou is already in the HOF with the Velvet Underground (who were inducted in 1996), but he certainly had a notable solo career. He has been nominated twice, in 2000, and 2001. I don't think he'll appear on the ballot until the Stooges get inducted (the voters would probably vote for Lou Reed solo over the Stooges, thus shutting them out again), but if the Hall decides to take another break on the Stooges, and wants to nominate a more "alternative," somewhat "underground" act, Lou Reed could fit the bill.

Peter Gabriel

I've thought for the last few years that Peter Gabriel would be nominated as a "headliner/superstar" artist. But even though he's been eligible since 2002, he has yet to receive a nomination. I have never expected Genesis to be nominated due to their lack of critical acclaim, but Peter's solo career was innovative, influential, and most importantly, critically acclaimed. Not to mention all of the political and social issues he has been involved in, which is something the Hall always looks highly on (look at Sting and U2 for example). Maybe the Hall will correct their mistake and nominate Peter this time around? Here's hoping anyway.

The Red Hot Chili Peppers

They’re newly eligible this year. Like Metallica, they are still not only a current act, but a pretty successful one too. They have endured a long career, continue to have hits, were innovative and influential throughout their career, and were one of the bands to push "alternative rock" into the mainstream in the early '90s. They’re a shoe-in for the HOF. But like I explained before, I’m not going to boldly predict them being nominated in their first year of eligibility. I think they’ll wait a bit. But I could easily be wrong though.

Tom Waits

Critics love this guy. He constantly appears on greatest albums and artists lists. And he’s one of the few artists to start out in the ’70s and is still putting out critically acclaimed albums which has resulted in him still being worshipped upon by modern day critics (ala those at Pitchfork Media and Rolling Stone). I’m surprised he hasn’t been inducted, let alone nominated. If Leonard Cohen can get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, then Tom Waits certainly can.

Whitney Houston

I think the sympathy for the Jackson family and Janet Jackson will shut out Whitney this year. But I could be wrong, and beings Whitney’s work has been more critically acclaimed than Janet’s, the Hall may instead go with Whitney over Janet. But I think in order for Whitney to get the nod over Janet, her comeback album will have to be a hit and not a flop. If the ballot has more artists, than both could appear, but if it’s down to only 9, I think Janet will be on there instead of Whitney. But again, I could be wrong.


So that's my take on the 2010 class. Thanks to anyone that read my long posts!

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 20:56pm

Coltrane

This one would be a tremendous "curveball" nomination much like Miles Davis was for 2006. His nomination is one hardly no one would think of, yet makes complete sense too. Miles Davis and John Coltrane are the big two jazz artists that are constantly mentioned and praised in rock circles. Many rock artists cite his influence, and his albums often appear on greatest albums lists in just about every notable music magazine (including Rolling Stone who is highly influential on the RNRHOF process). If the Hall wants to induct more jazz artists in the "Performers" category, with Miles Davis already in the HOF, the next logical choice is of course John Coltrane.
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 20:56pm

I think Coltrane would rock an roll over in his grave..
It would be a step down , a slap in the face .. But that is my opinion..Why not Mozart or Bach ..?
I love rock and some great talent are in..but gee whizz "Apples an Oranges "

As far as Dick Dale...
He is the King is you believe in kings LOL

Try Link Wray , Fireballs ,Sandy Nelson, Surfaris... an a host of others that brought that type of music to "world" attention in the 50/60s's maybe early influance would be a good place to put him...????
But I would not be surprised to see him in As you mention the Ventures are in. The best Surf band is already IN {The Beach Boys}

Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 22:13pm

I should also mention that those artists I discussed are merely my predictions for who the Hall will go for. Not necessarily who I want to see get inducted in the Hall. My list of artists I want in the Hall would be quite different from my list of predictions.

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 22:30pm

"I think Coltrane would rock an roll over in his grave..
It would be a step down , a slap in the face .. But that is my opinion..Why not Mozart or Bach ..?
I love rock and some great talent are in..but gee whizz "Apples an Oranges "

As far as Dick Dale...
He is the King is you believe in kings LOL

Try Link Wray , Fireballs ,Sandy Nelson, Surfaris... an a host of others that brought that type of music to "world" attention in the 50/60s's maybe early influance would be a good place to put him...????
But I would not be surprised to see him in As you mention the Ventures are in. The best Surf band is already IN {The Beach Boys}"



Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 22:13pm

--------------------------------------------------

John Coltrane is an artist that I'm not necessarily dying to be in the HOF per se (I honestly wouldn't be against it though), but I wouldn't be surprised if he was put on the ballot, beings the Hall did induct Miles Davis. And if you're going to go for jazz performers of the '50s and beyond that were influential on many rock artists, John Coltrane is probably the next biggest act to go for.

As for the other surf rockers you mentioned, I definitely agree with Link Wray being inducted. I'm not so sure about the Surfaris, though admittedly I have not heard a lot of their stuff so I'm probably underestimating them. Though I could see the Hall going for them, and they were an act I considered while making my predictions. I honestly have never heard of the Fireballs, so I should look them up of course. Sandy Nelson, is another possibility, but I'm not sure if the Hall would consider him or not. But you never know with the Hall.

I'm sure that Dick Dale is not the only "surf rock" act deserving of being in the Hall, but he is probably the most well known of all the early surf rock acts that are not in the HOF (along with Jan & Dean if you consider them "surf rock"), and thus would probably be looked at first by the Hall. Plus, he has been influential on many guitar players, which is a plus for him. And he consistently appears on "greatest guitar player" lists, which is also a plus in his favor.

Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 22:40pm

As for the other surf rockers you mentioned, I definitely agree with Link Wray being inducted. I'm not so sure about the Surfaris, though admittedly I have not heard a lot of their stuff so I'm probably underestimating them. Though I could see the Hall going for them, and they were an act I considered while making my predictions. I honestly have never heard of the Fireballs, so I should look them up of course. Sandy Nelson, is another possibility, but I'm not sure if the Hall would consider him or not. But you never know with the Hall.

I'm sure that Dick Dale is not the only "surf rock" act deserving of being in the Hall, but he is probably the most well known of all the early surf rock acts that are not in the HOF (along with Jan & Dean if you consider them "surf rock"), and thus would probably be looked at first by the Hall. Plus, he has been influential on many guitar players, which is a plus for him. And he consistently appears on "greatest guitar player" lists, which is also a plus in his favor.


The Surfaris have the biggest surf instrumental rock hit in the WORLD.. an at the same the most famous rock drum solo..Dick didn't have a top 10-20 - 30 ... billboard hit in the 50-60-70's etc that I know of..
"Wipe Out" is an was the biggest global hit in the day surf was hitting

As far as Coltran I just feel he is anything but that...... Any real musicain has heard Coltran but I hope they have heard Mozart also..

Posted by mrxyz on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 23:12pm

Hey, FRL, hurry up with your predictions. It's September already. Wait much longer, and you'll be overtaken by events. . . .

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 01:32am

Def Leopard
Grand Funk Railroad
Billy Idol
Rush
Joan Jett & The Blackhearts
Boston
Weird Al Yankovic
Heart

Posted by Buck on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 07:19am

Kiss
Ozzy Osbourne
Alice Cooper
Foghat
The Cult
Motley Crue
Dire Straights
Supertramp
Duran Duran

Posted by Buck on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 07:29am

No duh...that's who I was addressing (as well as those buyung into it)!

Posted by That was my point Orange on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 09:25am

You had me until Supertramp- but not really; aside from Rush and Dire STRAITS, that sounds like a Mulletfest lineup if such a monstrosity could be assembled...

Posted by Yo Buck on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 09:49am

Whatever you do Buck, don't grasp the concept of spell-check! ;P)>

Posted by Mullets rule like it's '82! on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 10:24am

the smiths
yes
rush
red hot chili peppers
beastie boys

Posted by michael on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 14:16pm

Donnie... great analysis. Some of us are banking on certain trends as well. If you'll notice my picks were based on: rap, relatively newly eligible, female, guitar-based rock band, doo-wop, British invasion, R&B/soul, and one left-field pick. There are other trends... guitar-god (a role SRV fills besides recently newly eligible); uber-artistic songwrter (which I don't have this time unless you think either SRV or Tex fill this role, I don't), etc.

But good picks, and of course, just as reasonable as any of ours. I particularly liked your reasoning for picking Jr. Walker And The All-Stars as a back-up possibility.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 18:46pm

Supertramp?!! For induction !?!?!

I do not like to break this to you Buck, but you are out of your element. Supertramp is a textbook definition of a noted band or individual artist that initially had a fine outlook that wasted their talents. Here is an example: why in the heck would you follow up from "Fool's Overture", a song that is their only positive contribution to their field, with such claptrap like "Logical"? As well, try as he might, Roger Hodgson is no Jon Anderson.

Donnie, however, seems to get an interesting impression on the extensive finalists for induction for the Class of 2010. We might yet see 25 finalists and at least 10 inductees for this time. Here are my thoughts on these picks:

The Beastie Boys: They are well deserving of induction, although they never stood out individually. I am rather neutral on this; it could go either way for me.

Chic: these guys will be inducted in the RRHOF Class of 2010. The long wait will be over soon.

Deep Purple: I am rather suprised that they have not been inducted yet. The arguably loudest band on earth need to be honored very soon.

The Hollies: they will be nominated as finalists. I am not certain when an induction will take place, if the Class of 2010 is the time or not. Plus, I would like to see Graham Nash, Terry Sylvester, and Bernie Calvert reunite with Tony Hicks one more time.

Janet Jackson: she will be a finalist. Maybe an inductee as well. Quite a varied and influential artist and performer.

Joseph Hazziez (Joe Tex): It is upsetting that an eventual induction will be posthumous, considering his passing in 1982. Yet, Joe Tex' Life's work should be fully recognized.

Paul Revere and the Raiders: They were a bit off the cuff, yet still rather great. Not so much Paul Revere himself, but Mark Lindsay and the rest of the guys were fine singers-songwriters-instrumentalists. I do not know if this will occur, yet there is always a time for their induction.

Stevie Ray Vaughan: a finalist consideration will occur this year. I am not certain when an induction will occur. Hopefully sooner rather than later, although it will be posthumous considering Vaughan's passing in 1990.

The Stooges: it could either way as it being The Stooges or just Iggy Pop. Whatever the amount may be, an induction should be forthcoming very soon.

The "5" Royales: They are of the few remaiining doo-wop groups I would consider for induction. It will be rather posthumous though, considering Lowman Pauling's passing in 1973. In any case, they were quite good, and deserving of induction.

Afrika Bambaataa: He will eventually have to be inducted, considering his innovative electronic rap hybrid. I am just not certain when it will occur.

The Commodores: As I have mentioned before, I would prefer Lionel Richie being inducted on his own accord, as opposed to the Commodores as a group. When Richie left, he had the better hits and albums and tours, not the rest of the band. I infer that an induction for Lionel Richie will occur in the near future.

Dire Straits: they should be inducted soon, I hope. I would emphasize the era when David Knopfler was in the group. Since their early works were slightly more adventurous.

Dick Dale: He should be inducted in the near term. It seems only fair to me that if Duane Eddy is in, then Dick Dale should not be far behind. As well, Dale made the guitar an interesting soundscape for the surf music subgenre.

Donna Summer: she will be inducted in the Class of 2010. Clearly, her influence has been astounding.

Gram Parsons: An induction should be considered hopefully very soon. It will be posthumous though, considering Parson's passing in 1973. Yet, it should occur, and should have already occured years before.

John Coltrane: Even though posthumous, since Coltrane died in 1967, and in a form of pre-fusion jazz, John Coltrane and his works need to be inducted very soon. It is a bit off-kilter, yet his works transcended the jazz boundaries by all means.

Johnny Burnette: This is where we disagree. Now, I think that the individual careers of two-thirds of the Rock and Roll Trio should be considered: Paul Burlison and Dewey Burnette. However, Johnny Burnette in and of himself was not that great in my opinion.

Junior Walker: Well, he certainly was a fine saxaphonist that happened to have a good voice. Though it would be posthumous, considering Walker passed in 1995, I think Junior Walker should be seriously considered at some point in the future.

Lou Reed: He needs to eventually be inducted on his own. Heck, it could be debatable that Lou Reed outside of the Velvet Underground was at least a tad bit more influential than his stint with the band. This induction should occur very soon.

Peter Gabriel: He will be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2010. In my inference, Gabriel's induction is the shoo-in for the coming induction ceremonies. The wait will also soon be over.

The Red Hot Chili Peppers: They may very well be finalists. I am not certain when an induction will occur, though. It should come within the next two years at most.

Tom Waits: He should be inducted as soon as can be. I am rather baffled at the lack of consideration for Waits. One of the better singer-songwriters of his era, in my opinion.

Whitney Houston: A dynamic singer, fine actress, and a great diva in the truest sense of the word. Plus, she still has it after all of these years. I would have no problem whatsoever in inducting Whitney Houston, either for the Class of 2010 or afterwards.

Well Donny, we seem to agree on all, with the Beastie Boys being give or take for me and the noted exception of Johnny Burnette. As I have mentioned before, I am not certain how this will all play out. What I can state is I infer that the five inductees for the RRHOF Class of 2010 will be Peter Gabriel, Donna Summer, Chic, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), and The Eurythmics. We shall see what the results will be in the weeks and months ahead. As well, we will all be discussing these issues with great vigor.

Dick Dale is better than the Surfaris,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 19:07pm

"Thanks to anyone that read my long posts!"
(Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, 09.1.09 @ 20:56pm)
Note to Donnie: I stopped reading after about 800 lines! Dude, keep it crisp.

Posted by Telarock on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 20:05pm

Kraftwerk
Depeche Mode
Lou Reed
The Stooges
Red Hot Chili Peppers

Posted by yes on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 21:30pm

It would be nice if the HOF considered Whitney Houston in her first year of eligiblity. However, looking at past trends, I'd be surprised if it did. She is The Voice, no doubt, and set the template for female pop/R&B to come after her. But, some may view her material as "light." We'll see.

Posted by JR on Wednesday, 09.2.09 @ 23:34pm

I hope Lew Chudd of Imperial Records{RIP} begins getting his past do respect.. I urge all to send the RRHOF a mention... He should be in as much as
Sam Phillips of Sun Records ..Where would Hollywood Rock be with out Lew..?

Posted by mrxyz on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 02:06am

Whitney Houston even getting NOMINATED would be the death knell for the R&RHOF!

Posted by you know it on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 09:02am

Supertramp were not a bad group. And Lax26 I'm going to sum up most of thoughts: Styx were hair metal, members of Kansas should get solo inductions, the Rock N Roll Trio deserve to be inducted without Johnny Burnette, and that Phil Collins doesn't belong in with Genesis???

Posted by Dude Man on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 09:26am

Lax26 wrote:
Supertramp?!! For induction !?!?!

I do not like to break this to you Buck, but you are out of your element. Supertramp is a textbook definition of a noted band or individual artist that initially had a fine outlook that wasted their talents. Here is an example: why in the heck would you follow up from "Fool's Overture", a song that is their only positive contribution to their field, with such claptrap like "Logical"? As well, try as he might, Roger Hodgson is no Jon Anderson.


LOL that is to funny...
Supertramp made great music. one of the best from production to the tunes... but what the heck,,,
Jon Anderson when he was in YES ...Are you feeling ok LOL

I say to you "ALL YA NEED IS EARS"

Posted by mrxyz on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 11:51am

"Phil Collins doesn't belong in with Genesis???"

This statement made by Dude Man is 100% false.

When Genesis does get inducted into the Hall of Fame. Phil Collins should be included in the induction.

He was the drummer of Genesis when Peter Gabriel was singing in the band. Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherfold, and Steve Hackett should be the members inducted in Genesis.

As far as what they perform together, I would say they should do some of their older material with Gabriel or have Peter Gabriel sing "Turn It On" or "Land of Confusion" and have Phil Collins just play drums.

Phil Collins is a key member of Genesis, like it or not.

Posted by Kyle on Thursday, 09.3.09 @ 12:42pm