The 2009 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees

The 2009 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees were announced on September 22nd. For the third consecutive year, only nine nominees were named, and of those, five will be inducted.

Cast your 2009 ballot here!

Here are your official 2009 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees (all quotes from the official press release):

  • Metallica | "Rising from the Los Angeles metal underground in the early 1980s, Metallica quickly rose to become the most successful and acclaimed heavy metal band of their era - a position they’ve consistently held for over a quarter century. Founded by vocalist James Hetfield and drummer Lars Ulrich, the group discovered a potent formula by combining the thrash metal of Motorhead with the industrial sound of Killing Joke. By the late 1980s, mainstream tastes were shifting over to metal and Metallica found themselves with a string of hit singles and sold-out stadiums across the globe. This month the band released Death Magnetic, a metal tour de force in the same vein as their landmark 1980s work."
    Current Induction Chances: 89%

  • Run-DMC | "More than any other act, Run-D.M.C. took hip-hop from the streets of New York to the national stage. The group gets deserved credit for its combinations of rock and rap from their early use of guitars on tracks such as "Rock Box" to their ground-breaking collaboration with Aerosmith on their 1986 cover of "Walk this Way." But even more important was how Run-D.M.C and the late Jam Master Jay set the template for modern hip-hop, from their everyday-teenager style to their blazing live shows to a catalogue of classic songs that few rappers have matched: "It’s Tricky," "My Adidas," "Peter Piper," "It’s Like That," "Sucker MC’s" and many more."
    Current Induction Chances: 63%

  • The Stooges | "The "Big Bang" that became punk, alternative, heavy metal, new wave, grunge, hardcore and industrial music, could very well have been the advent of Iggy and the Stooges in Ann Arbor in the late 1960’s. Immediately embraced in New York, London and Los Angeles for the nuclear-powered simplicity of their music, the ironic nihilism of their lyrics, and the persona of Iggy himself, the Stooges have become icons in the history of modern music. And if there is a national anthem for the far side (the underside?) of our rock and roll universe, it is certainly 'I Wanna Be Your Dog.'"
    Current Induction Chances: 69%

  • Jeff Beck | "One of the most influential guitarists in rock and roll, Jeff Beck, was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1992, as a member of the Yardbirds. After his 18-month stint (1965-66) in that band, he formed the first edition of the Jeff Beck Group (1968-69, with Rod Stewart and Ron Wood). In the four decades since, Beck’s work has encompassed deep explorations into instrumental jazz fusion, blues, a tribute to Gene Vincent, and much more, always underpinned by his hard-rock roots."
    Current Induction Chances: 61%

  • Chic | "Chic’s founding partnership of songwriter-producers Nile Rodgers (guitar) and Bernard Edwards (bass), abetted by future Power Station drummer Tony Thompson, rescued disco in 1977 with a combination of groove, soul and studio smarts. With their out-of-the-box chart smashes "Dance, Dance, Dance (Yowsah, Yowsah, Yowsah)" and "Le Freak," Chic raised the bar and hooked a generation. Since then, artists such as Sugar Hill Gang and Diddy have turned to Chic for beats and samples. Rodgers and Edwards (before his death in 1996) followed their five years in Chic with careers as top-flight producers for an A-list of megastars."
    Current Induction Chances: 46%

  • Wanda Jackson | "When Elvis Presley sang "wear my ring around your neck" – it was Wanda Jackson’s neck. And she still has the ring. The "First Lady of Rock and Roll" started recording in 1954, and was 18 when she graduated high school and played her first package tour with Elvis in 1955. He convinced her that rock and roll was the way, and she grabbed onto the rhythm like a dynamo. Wanda had the respect of Gene Vincent, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Cash, and every musician who ever shared the stage with the "Queen Of Rockabilly." A perennial star on tour in Europe and Japan, Wanda’s career revived back home in the ’90s, thanks to true believers like Elvis Costello."
    Current Induction Chances: 30%

  • War | "The six founding members of War – the late Papa Dee Allen and Charles Miller, survivors Harold Brown, B.B. Dickerson, Lonnie Jordan, and Howard Scott – were gigging around L.A. for nearly a decade before hooking up with Eric Burdon (ex-Animals) and Danish harmonica player Lee Oskar in 1969. Burdon and producer Jerry Goldstein named them War and they backed it up with a steamy Afro-Latin R&B groove that rocked their debut hit “Spill The Wine.” Less than two years later, Burdon dropped out and War went their own way in 1971. A long string of Top 10 pop/R&B crossover hits established War’s status through the ’70s, always with a social message grounded by their distinctively breezy Southern California vibe."
    Current Induction Chances: 52%

  • Little Anthony and the Imperials | "After singing in high school doo-wop groups, Fort Greene, Brooklyn’s Jerome Anthony Gourdine joined a quartet called the Chesters, which included tenor Ernest Wright, Jr. and baritone Clarence Collins. The fivesome signed to George Goldner’s End Records in 1958 as the Imperials featuring Little Anthony. His boyish vocal (redolent of Frankie Lymon) clicked with "Tears On My Pillow" and "Shimmy, Shimmy, Ko-Ko-Bop," boosted by one of the most energetic stage shows around. Other hits included "I’m on the Outside (Looking In)," "Goin’ Out of My Head," and "Hurt So Bad" that forever immortalized Little Anthony and the Imperials."
    Current Induction Chances: 39%

  • Bobby Womack | "In a class with Sam Cooke and James Brown, his two older mentors, Bobby Womack’s career spans over 55 years, back to sibling group the Womack Brothers. Cooke signed and renamed them the Valentinos, whose first two Womack-penned R&B hits became signatures for the Rolling Stones (“It’s All Over Now,” their first #1 UK hit) and J. Geils Band (“Lookin’ For A Love”). Womack is a triple-threat: prolific solo artist, landmark session guitarist (Sam Cooke At the Copa, Aretha Now, Lady Soul, Elvis Presley’s “Suspicious Minds,” Sly’s There’s A Riot Goin’ On, the Rolling Stones’ “Harlem Shuffle,” and many more), and master songwriter (Aretha’s “Chain Of Fools,” Wilson Picket’s “I’m a Midnight Mover,” Janis Joplin’s “Trust Me,” and countless others."
    Current Induction Chances: 33%

The "Current Induction Chances" represent the artist's odds of ever being inducted into the Hall of Fame, as calculated by Future Rock Legends and its users.


The only newly eligible artist to be nominated this year is Run-DMC, leaving Stevie Ray Vaughan fans wondering what happened.

Metallica, snubbed in their first year of eligibility in 2008, make the ballot this time and have to be considered a front runner for induction.

The Stooges are back on the ballot for the seventh time after they were given a year off last year.

Jeff Beck fills the guitar hero slot on the ballot, receiving his first nomination as a solo artist after 16 years of eligibility.

Chic is nominated for the fourth straight year, and the fifth time overall.

Wanda Jackson receives her second nomination after a vigorous campaign was waged this year to get her inducted. One of her notable advocates is Elvis Costello.

War have been eligible since 1996, but this is their first time being nominated.

Little Anthony and the Imperials have been eligible since the Rock Hall was conceived, but have just now made the list of finalsts.

Finally, eligible since 1992, Bobby Womack is the sixth first-time nominee this year.

What does this list tell us about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee? For one thing, they don't stray from the list of artists who have previously been considered in past years. Every nominee this year is represented on that list, except for Run-DMC since this is the first year they could have been discussed.

So who got snubbed? The only repeat nominee from the 2008 ballot is Chic. The Beastie Boys, Afrika Bambaataa, and Donna Summer didn't make the cut this year. Of the newly eligible artists, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Bon Jovi, and the Smiths are notable snubs. For Future Rock Legends 2009 predictions, check here.


Future Rock Legends forecasts which of today's artists will be the next generation's Rock & Roll Hall of Famers by using a combination of historically predictive criteria, user votes, and nomination patterns.

Future Rock Legends lists eligible artists by first year of eligiblity or alphabetically.

This site is not affiliated in any way with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum or the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation.

Comments

410 comments so far (post your own)

Metallica
Run-DMC
The Stooges
Jeff Beck
War

That's a pretty good class right there.

Posted by Keith on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 07:22am


S--Seriously?

Wow. The Rock Hall of Fame sure went wacky this year. Again.

Is it too much to ask that they just pick nine artists that deserve to be in? I can only assume that they front-loaded the ballot with bad picks to ensure that the Stooges get in, which, I mean, I appreciate, but still. I hate to be one of those guys that complains about not enough of the classic metal and prog acts, but geez, man, seriously. Alice Cooper still not in but freaking WAR? And as much Lax-baiting as I've done.... seriously, where IS Peter Gabriel? Why hasn't he been inducted yet?

So, Metallica and the Stooges and Chic and Run-DMC are all virtual locks because of the weak competition this year. Who's the fifth? I think we can discount Bobby Womack entirely. (I'm not saying he's a bad artist, he's a very good one, but a Hall of Famer? Why him and not Lou Rawls, or Teddy Pendergrass, or Donny Hathaway? That's a straight up admission that they've run out of R&B singers to induct.) Wanda has the momentum, but Beck may pick up the whitey-white classic rock crowd. Maybe there are other "doowop fanatics" out there who can pick up Little Anthony's slack.

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 07:28am


Well then, there is the list, we suppose.

I would suppose, from that list, that Chic, Metallica, Iggy Pop and/or the Stooges, Wanda Jckson, and Jeff Beck will go in. A fine set of inductees. Though, for my end of the table, that is only one of the five predicted inductees in Chic. For one reason or another, I was assured that Donna Summer would go in this year. And, indeed, I figured amongst others that Peter Gabriel would be listed amongst the finalists for inductions. I am rather dissapointed in Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) not being a finalist again, and am rather baffled by the lack of support the Eurythmics are getting. Regarding the Eurythmics, maybe the Hall of Fame Foundation Nominating Committee is waiting to induct Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart individually.

By the by, the other four finalists are deserving of induction: I do not think this is the year they will go in, however. Well, maybe Run-DMC has a shot. I am rather impressed that War, Little Anthony, and Bobby Womack are getting consideration, though.

Also to note, it appears that Bon Jovi did not gain induction to the Hall of Fame just yet. Wheras many commentators and insiders thought this would be the year. And it does appear that the Hollies are not getting in this year as well; a dissapointment to be honest, as I felt the intensive lobbying would give forth considerable attention.

I do notice that the non-performer list is not announced. Perhaps this will be the year that Bernie Taupin does make it in alongside Sir Elton John. It seems only fair and reasonable.

Now, before any of you start throwing theoretical pies at my face in thinking that I have gotten a comeuppance with respect to Peter Gabriel not being on the list of finalists, not to worry. This is a reason why the Hall of Fame Foundation has conjured up a backup plan: A special induction ceremony honoring the classic lineup of Genesis, individually and collectively. I made this proposal to Jann Wenner and the Hall of Fame Foundation just over one year ago, when the eligibility of Phil Collins' entire body of work kicked in. In that letter, I proposed a different induction ceremony from the one given annually. In this one, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins, and Mike Rutherford would be inducted as both Genesis and on their own accords. Granted, Collins' and Rutherford's solo materials are rather spotty; but for the sake of completing the induction tree, this would work.

To conclude, the five picks for induction from what I think is the official ballot are well deserved, and likely to go in. As well, it will occur that if Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, Collins, and Rutherford might not go in through the main ballot, then they will go in in a special acheivement category created in their exclusivity. Thus, Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 or thereabouts, alongside his classic lineup of Genesis mates. Simply put, the waiting is over to induct all branches of the tree; when it will happen is not yet known. Yet, it is going to happen, preferably next year.

Can we all be theoretical friends,

Lax25


Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 07:39am


Lax

I am completely confused now. You are saying that the Hall, based on your recommendation, will have a special induction ceremony for Genesis alone? Why would they do that? What makes Genesis so special over the likes of other bands? Don't you think that would cause some kind of backlash? I am all for the true Genesis being inducted, but I am just curious about your opinions. I didn't know you held such power over the Hall.

And this thing with the Eurythmics. A fine band no doubt, but certainly nowhere near as important as The Cure, Joy Division, and The Smiths. And their solo careers, although respectable are not HoF worthy.

Who assured you that Donna Summer was getting in? Why should lobbying matter when it comes to the Hollies? They don't deserve induction. We can't put every 60's band in the Hall.

I mean no disrespect, but some of your comments on the Hall are about as sane as St. Jimmy and the Flock of Coven. You are so assured of certain things and then when that all falls flat on its face, you have complete explanations as to how it will all be resolved.

Here is how you can resolve it; stop calling it a Hall of Fame and rename it the Modern Music Museum. Or, replace the nominating committee with a barrel full of monkeys.

Posted by Blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 08:00am


This is really, really, really odd!

None of the candidates I had thought would have a chance have been nominated! Not only the Eurythmics and Peter Gabriel, but also

- Def Leppard
- The Replacements
- Depeche Mode
- Sugarhill Gang
- solo Tina Turner

I would have expected far more likely to be listed.

Metallica, Chic and the Stooges will certainly get in I feel, but for the new candidates it is hard to see why they are on the ballot. I have never seen in a best-albums or best songs list or heard on classic rock radio:

- solo Jeff Beck
- War
- Little Anthony and the Imperials
- or Bobby Womack

Wanda Jackson I have seen praised by Richie Unterberger and many musicians, so there may be some case even if she was no more successful commercially than the Stooges. However, it is really hard to see the logic behind so many unexpected choices.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 08:13am


You could wellbe pessimistic, wheras I could just as well be optimistic.

Plus, I do not hold power over the Hall of Fame. I am simply bringing forth proposals, which I beleive have been considered. As well, this represents my choices; each one of us has different viewpoints.

Regarding a backlash, I seriously doubt a process of inducting Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford individually and collectively would constitute a problematic anger: it is already there. On my end, I have a laundry list of artists that should have been inducted years ago. For my end, Gabriel/Hackett/Banks/Collins/Rutherford together and apart is the most egregious and in need of correcting the oversight.

You see, my proposal would fit the eligibility requirements and end the debate. As well, all sides and branches will be inducted, without omitting even one of the classic line-up. Simply stated, for a rather unique positioning of innovative artists, whom were once involved in a unique band format, a unique induction ceremony would suffice.

To note, you do not see me enraged over this, cursing the Hall of Fame and all that dwell within the Hall of Fame. There are newer methods for induction to consider, if only for certain occasions. An induction of the five Genesis classic line-up figures, not just peter Gabriel, is an interesting format that has been considered; at the very least, Jann Wenner looked at the e-mail I sent. Frankly, nothing can get done until you actually put it in the face of Wenner and the Nominating Committee. Therefore, the proposal has been considered, and will very well occur. And to remind you, I started doing this campaigning last year: certain time has passed for this to happen.

Shocking the barrel of monkeys to life,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 08:25am


Optimism is hoping for better in 2010. Try doing that.

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 08:57am


Thank you for that clarification although I still don't see it. The one flaw in your theory is the claim that Genesis is the biggest omission. Now I know we all have our own tastes, but I don't see how Genesis falls into this category. King Crimson was far more influential in the world of Prog Rock. Alice is by far the biggest omission from this list and Hall. I do agree that they belong, but there are more than a few that deserve it more, IMO.

As far as you writing Schmucky the clown Wenner; unless you hold some sway over him, why would he listen to you? There have been campaigns and petitions for many groups. Roy and Chicago for one. There is a big one circulating for Heart. Why will he listen to you?

I have a feeling that the only reason the Stooges are here again is because Madonna probably threatened Wenner that she would not attend her own induction if the Stooges were not on the 2009 ballot. (Bless her pointy bras) And that would have been a financial blunder for the Hall if Madonna didn't show. So unless you have a way of talking to Wenner's wallet and ego, I don't see it my friend.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:21am


Julien

- Def Leppard (The genre that Def Leppard is associated with is probably the most disliked and least respected of all. Don't expect this for at least another decade)

- The Replacements (Who knows when)

- Depeche Mode (Not before Joy Division, Cure and a few others)

- Sugarhill Gang (I don't know enough about Rap to make a judgement)

- solo Tina Turner (She is touring this year, so maybe next year her solo career will get consideration)

Solo Jeff Beck is worthy. (IMO, he is the greatest Rock guitarist ever)

Best song and album lists do not have more than a miniscule impact on the Hall of Fame criteria

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:34am


"I have a feeling that the only reason the Stooges are here again is because Madonna probably threatened Wenner that she would not attend her own induction if the Stooges were not on the 2009 ballot."

That was almost certainly the Hall's idea, as Wenner has been trying to induct the Stooges for a decade now.

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:50am


First off, I'm absolutely speechless. This crop reeks of the cronyism that has been inferred often in the past, yet overlooked because some of the candidates were truly reasonable. This time, there's far too many ballot options that are either idiosyncratic choices with little value to bring to Cleveland or have obviously been trumpeted via members of the Rock Hall or its board.

The Stooges - The writeup mentions "I Wanna Be Your Dog"...obviously, their performance at last year's gig helped them earn a place on this year's weak ballot. They're all but assured induction.

Chic - Friends with the write people but truly undeserving of their nominations.

Wanda Jackson - Elvis Costello trumps her up and she's on the ballot.

Little Anthony & The Imperials - Made a big splash on Letterman which obviously convinced Paul Shaffer to take a stand for these guys. The fourth example on this ballot so far (that we know of) where the influence of a few outweighs the level of influence on the landscape of rock.

War is such an absolutely atrocious pick. I would elect 150 artists before them and I'm absolutely serious about that number. Jeff Beck is pretty freakin' mindboggling. He's already in the Hall of Fame, yet Stevie Ray Vaughn (who is a more influential guitarist) isn't. Yet you'll nominate a truly lesser name? All Beck did was play the guitar, there wasn't anything innovative about it. He's hardly a household name like BB King or SRV.

I don't even know who Bobby Womack is which is distressing considering I'm someone that's spent a lot of time weeding through the chaff of rock history from the basements in Motor City to those that fly in jets on billion dollar grossing tours. To have a name that even the most astute of rock aficionados that were born after 1970 can't even recognize? Then, you're really stretching things.

At least the writeups this year were stronger for every artist and truly gave a glimpse of their importance rather than being a strict biography. Still, some of them are truly a stretch as they infer that these artists have had long and continually successful careers when only Metallica stands up to that benchmark. Womack, Jackson, The Imperials & Jeff Beck are hardly radio friendly unit shifters from the 80's onward. Run DMC, on the other hand, simply fell out of favor but had already produced an unignorable legacy.

At the very least, three members of my queue (Run DMC, Metallica, Stooges) are all guaranteed inclusion which beats last year's crop of Madonna & Cohen. In return, The Smiths are added to my list of those on the outside looking in, but at least electing three major omissions while creating one new one is progress.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 09:51am


I'm obligated to choose my Top 5, naturally.

1. The Stooges - One of the Top 5 snubs thus far
2. Metallica - A top 15 to top 10 eligible artist
3. Run DMC - A top 15 to top 10 eligible artist
.................................................
4. Chic - Some great songs and a unique sound, I guess
5. Little Anthony & The Imperials - Doo wop group with some classic singles

Posted by Casper on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 10:01am


More detailed thoughts on the nine picks:

The Stooges: The most obvious pick of the nine, a virtual lock considering the lack of competition and long overdue.

Metallica: Well-earned, and also obviously an attempt to look current. The Hall of Fame is going to spend the '80s waiting for the '90s to become eligible; in the meantime, they're going to start inducting token '80s acts, even though Metallica, like REM and future inductees the Beastie Boys and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, didn't become superstars until the '90s. I wonder how Metallica feels about getting in before legends of metal like Deep Purple, Kiss, Alice Cooper, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motorhead, etc.

Run-DMC: Wisely, this year the committee has decided to nominate just one rap artist rather than split the vote.

Chic: Their influence was enormous, their actual output was short and not really that remembered. Everyone says nice things about Chic, how many people actually listen to Chic? I wonder how many songs by Chic the average Rock Hall voter can even name. Still, one of the stronger choices on the ballot, sadly.

Little Anthony: Don't like that guy's voice. Shouldn't there be some kind of statute of limitations? If you've been eligible since 1986 and you STILL haven't gotten inducted, can we at least say that their influence is questionable at best? And seriously, why should the guy behind "Shimmy Shimmy Koko Bop" be inducted, really? Sigh, at least I've actually heard of them, as opposed to a lot of other doowop groups in there already. I mean, the Moonglows?

Wanda Jackson: No one had even a second's thought about Jackson for a good 40 years. Even her supporters probably only know "Let's Have a Party." A terrible pick -- the token female, obviously. Not everyone from the '50s is important.

Jeff Beck: I actually own a Jeff Beck album. He's a talented guy, I guess. But seriously, he's overshadowed by his peers for a reason.

War: An unfathomable, and unconscionable, pick. In a year of weak nominees, this is easily the weakest. What is it, like a token ethnic pick?

Bobby Womack: As I've said earlier, this is a straight-up admission that they've run out of deserving '70s r&b artists to induct. I like what little I've heard of Womack, but who was inspired to start singing because of Bobby Womack? I could hear cases for Barry White, Teddy Pendergrass or Donny Hathaway -- but no one's still listening to Bobby Womack.

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 11:16am


What kind of a committee nominates War instead of Love??

Posted by joker on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 11:17am


Jeff Beck: I actually own a Jeff Beck album. He's a talented guy, I guess. But seriously, he's overshadowed by his peers for a reason. (MBI)

First, one of the problems with Beck was that he spent as much time working on cars as he did on his music. He is a strange fellow.

Jeff Beck's solo career never took off like Clapton's because their styles were somewhat different (actually a lot different) as far as song composition was concerned. Beck was not as audience friendly. Not to mention that Beck cannot sing a lick. But the Wired lp release influenced guitarists from Rock to Jazz.

One thing is for sure; he makes Clapton, Page and the rest of his guitar peers look like a rank amateurs when it comes to playing the guitar.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:02pm


It was fun sending cards and letters to the hall this last year. Thousands were sent in by Melanie Safka fans. Oh well, they can only nominate just so many.

I can't aford to spend more time and money trying to help get Melanie in next year. Who cares, I don't.

Melanies music has a special place in the hearts of her fans. That's all that realy matters anyway.

Good luck to the nominees.
Jim

Posted by Jim Baldwin on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:18pm


WOW! The nominees list came out early this year! Last year they came out in November! They must not want the announcement to coincide with the election!

Posted by Roy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:32pm


I'm really happy about War being nominated. A great band with wonderful melding of soul & rock. I'm going to go home & rock out with some Low Rider...Might Spill a Little Wine in the process.

Other entrants for me, personally would be: Jeff Beck, Run DMC, Chic & Stooges.

I wonder what the 'Peter Gabriel Futures Market' is doing this afternoon?

Posted by Paul in KY on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:35pm


I guess this is the year Chic gets in.

So maybe after several years of nominating weak groups in hopes of getting Chic in, next year we'll see a better group.

Posted by Gregory on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:42pm


Once again the rock and roll hall of fame has shown it self as the joke it is and that is for one reason and one reason only....snubbing Bon Jovi.
I know many of you wont agree with this, but i'd like to see any of those nominated still tour the world and play to over 2 million fans, and still have number 1 albums all over the world.

However, i do feel that Metallica, and Jeff Beck are definately worthy candidates, and it will be a disgrace if these 2 dont end up making it. Run DMC however is a joke, and it is a shame that they are even considered.

Unfortunately Bon Jovi has never been a critics favourite, and it has shown again. Thank God the boys dont care what critics think and continue to put out quality (despite a few mediocre albums) music year after year, and continue to fill stadiums year after year.

Posted by Nizar Masri on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 13:18pm


Did Wanda Jackson and Bobby Womack ever work with Phil Spector?

Posted by Roy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 14:10pm


I'll beg your pardon Nizar

b/c Run DMC are certainly anything but a joke and if i had to let a hip hop group in the hall it would be them. Not only are they hip hop but they blur the line between hip hop and rock pretty darn well. Listen to king of rock and then tell me what you think

Posted by Greg on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 14:25pm


Check out the Run DMC's "King of Rock" video from 1985.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fumgOJLFSHw

"Hey! This is a Rock and Roll Museum. You guys don't belong in here. Ha ha ha!"

Amazing.

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 14:58pm


Bon Jovi vs. Run-DMC? Seriously? Seeing as this is, you know, the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame, I think they should only be considering the ROCK act on that list: Run-DMC.

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:03pm


Seriously, we get people complaining that Madonna isn't rock enough but then we get all these people demanding Bon Jovi? Huh? And furthermore, they've only been eligible for what, two years? Skynyrd waited 7 to get inducted, Bon Freaking Jovi's supposed to get in in one?

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:07pm


OK, let's not pair Madonna and Bon Jovi together. What boundaries exactly did Bon Jovi push?

I am totally OK with Bon Jovi not getting in.

They can wait in line behind The B-52's, The Smiths, etc.

Posted by MJC on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:17pm


I'm not renewing my membership in the Rock and Roll Hall next year for the first time since 2000. Another year of mostly lame nominees. No Moodies, Rush, Chicago, Neil Diamond, Gabriel. It's the Jann Wenner Hall now. Very sad. When I got the survey from them this year I proposed that paid members like myself at least be able to vote for the nominees who make the final nine.

Posted by Pat on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:17pm


My RNR HOF picks

Jeff Beck
War
Little Anthony
Chic
Stooges

Posted by Danny on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:19pm


Metallica
Stooges
Jeff Beck
Run DMC
War-finally gets nominated

I am schocked no SRV or Rush though

Posted by Brian on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:22pm


Why is Run DMC on the ballot?????
This is a rock hall, and last I heard rap is not rock at all. I hope they lose badly in the polls, and actually induct someone deserving for once

Posted by Danny on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:34pm


Scorpions snubbed again "Since 1997".So very sad:(

Posted by theleanmeanlovelykathleen1 on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 15:50pm


Bobby Womack- Legendary!
Metallica- Shaped a generation of METAL fans.
War- Lee Oskar...nuff said.
Stooges- Love me some Iggy Pop
Jeff Beck- Indeed!

Where the hell is SRV!!! Show Stevie some love!

Posted by Billy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 16:20pm


Jann Wenner should be thrown off the board, because he refuses to recongnize the true classic rock of the 1960's and 70's. It would actually ressurect the true meaning of the hall's message of the meaning "Rock and Roll". How could he and the board pick for example Run-DMC over Regular Classic rock, or Metallica over Def Leppard, and The Scorpions, or Wanda Jackson over Patsy Cline. Does this make sense in any way possible.

Posted by Danny on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 16:44pm


Have of them I figured and the others came out of left field.

I am good with The Stooges, Jeff Beck and Metallica. Run - DMC is good in my book. War is a very interesting choice. The others don't strike me either way (very safe)

Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 16:58pm


I don't agree a lot with Jann Wenner, especially not considering the path Rolling Stone went the last decades, but the best thing he and his friends ever did was refusing to narrowing 'rock and roll' down to 60s and 70s classic rock. Sure, the board should be more aware of that genre, and hasn't recognized it enough, but saying that one specific genre in a particular period constitutes the only true meaning of rock n roll is incredibly narrow-minded.

PS: I would pick Metallica over The Scorpions any day.

Posted by The_Claw on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 17:08pm


I would rank them like this
1- The Stooges
2- jeff Beck
3- Run DMC
4- Metallica
5- War
6- Wanda Jackson
7- Bobby Womack
8- Little Antony and the imperials
9- Chic

Posted by roméo on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 17:08pm


I keep wondering when Nick Drake is going to get in to the RnRHoF. Seems a shame he isn't there already

Posted by Gerrie on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 17:52pm


If you want a name change, go for the Rock and/or Roll Hall of Fame.

Here I have a suggestion to those that have legitimate grievances: flood Jann Wenner's mailbox, electronic and paper, with your suggestions. Then, Wenner and the Nominating Committee will have to hear us all. I do firmly have an inkling that these guys read my two (2!) letters considering the Hall of Fame to induct Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford, as both Genesis and on their own in the induction ceremony. A unique ceremony for its own accord, which would provide the proper awarding and tribute to these five artists. Namely Gabriel, Hackett, and Banks would be given the legitimacy for their own inductions. Yet, Collins and Rutherford would complete the tree of Genesis inductees, even with their rather spotty solo work. In short, the "Peter Gabriel Futures Market" is alive and well, and going up. Make no mistake: Gabriel, at least, will be inducted in the Class of 2009 or thereabouts. Gabriel will likely also go in with Hackett, Banks, Collins and Rutheford for both individual and collective works.

As I mentioned before, Peter Gabriel at least is the one inductee not already inducted yet that should be. Same with Genesis, individually and collectively. There are other artists that I have CDs and DVDs and MP3s that should make the Hall of Fame. Here is a sampling:

ABBA, Sir Tim Rice, The Moody Blues, Yes (again both individually and collectively), Rush, King Crimson, Adrian Belew on his own, Kate Bush, Lionel Richie, Sting on his own, The Move, The Hollies, Electric Light Orchestra, Patrick Moraz on his own, Hall and Oates, Bread, Ringo Starr on his own, Boston, Sarah McLachlan, Billy Cobham, Narada Michael Walden, Mike Oldfield, The Scorpions, Vangelis (yes, Vangelis; there were times, like Aphrodite's Child, when he rocked), Styx, Toto, The Tubes (all of them, not just Vince Welnick), Ryo Okumoto, Roger Waters on his own, Todd Rundgren, The System, Robert Palmer, XTC, Bill Nelson (the British artist, not the Senator), Chicago, Midge Ure, The Cars (also together and seperately, at least Ocasek, Orr, and Hawkes), Suzi Quatro, Roxy Music, Brian Eno, John Wetton, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, Radiohead, Paul Weller (as the Jam, Style Council, and himself), Cat Stevens a.k.a. Yusuf Islam, Chris De Burgh (yes, Chris De Burgh; go hear his earlier albums), Scott Walker, Donna Summer, The Eurythmics, Julian Cope, Dan Fogelberg, Tommy Bolin, Paul Carrack, Bruce Haack (obsure electronic artist), and also self-contained bands such as Coldplay, Tangerine Dream, and Barclay James Harvest (forgot about them, did you?), and Simple Minds (did not forget them, I trust.) And again, this is just a sampling. What do you fellow posters consider of my listings?

Awaiting answers,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 17:53pm


So this is the deal this year? Score one for Metallica. I think everyone saw the Stooges and Run D.M.C. on this list. Pleasantly suprised at War and Jeff Beck. I'll admit, I am stunned at the omission of Rush. I thought w/the cover issue, the hype from tv shows, etc. that the walls were really starting to break down for them. We all know who's missing.

Five I voted for:

Metallica
Stooges
Run D.M.C.
Chic
W. Jackson


Five who should be there:

Rush
Cars
Chicago
T-Rex
Def Lep

"At Your Service Day & Night, We Do The Job & Do It Right, AACCMMEE!!!"

In honor of the Stooges

Cheesecrop

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 18:30pm


I guess the Rock Hall figured they needed to induct Jeff Beck before inducting Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Posted by Roy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 18:32pm


Little Anthony and the Imperials are going to be this year's Dave Clark Five and The Ventures!

THEY WILL BE INDUCTED!

Posted by Roy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 18:35pm


I vote for Butch Walker.

Posted by jk on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 18:35pm


Those of you who are criticizing the pick of Jeff Beck do not know what you are talking about. Jeff Beck is one of the three great rock guitarists, alongside Hendrix and Allman. Caspar, "there wasn't anything innovative about it" (referring to Beck's playing). Are you on crack? Beck was and still is one of the most innovative guitarists to ever pick up the instrument. With all due respect to SRV (and I have a lot of respect for him), it was SRV who was not all that innovative. SRV was prodigiously talented, but it was basically turbocharged blues riffs that we've heard for decades. I have been waiting for Beck to be inducted for years. And just because he's in with the Yardbirds...not enough.

Posted by Dezmond on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 18:59pm


Dezmond...being a player myself (the greatest one in...my house, or maybe it's Bob the Dog???) it's hard for me to catagorize the truly great players...they're numbered 1A, 1B, 1C, etc..., but in no particular order! Jeff Beck is definitely 1 something. Very innovative, never heard anyone change keys in the middle of a song like he does and not get totally lost!!!

He and SRV playing "Goin' Down" for an encore on their tour together in 1989 is one of the best guitar "explosions" I've ever had the pleasure of witnessing!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 19:36pm


THE IMPERIALS should be inducted !! They (along with the already - inducted DELLS, were THE ONLY DOO-WOP era group of the 50's to maintain consistant success well into the 60's and 70's, while most of their peers fell by the wayside. Their appeal spans generations !! Also they're still touring with 3 out of 4 ORIGINAL MEMBERS TODAY,"Little Anthony" Gourdine, Ernest Wright, and group founder Clarence Collins. How many 50's groups (or even 60's , 70's and 80's , for that matter) can you still say THAT about ? If inducted , it will be the perfect capper to this, their 50TH ANNIVERSARY YEAR !!

Posted by Bill G. on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 19:59pm


Metallica
Run DMC
Jeff Beck
Stooges
Chic

War is my sixth choice for prediction

Posted by Kyle on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 20:05pm


Cyndi Lauper's influence on other artists ,irreguardless of Cyndi's present day commercial sucess, is still clearly visible today. Also Time After Time is a modern day classic, Girls Just Want To Have Fun has been celebrated by generation after generation of women, and True Colors is a much loved anthem of the worlds GLBT community. To deny Cyn a place on the ballot is just another reason why the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is about as meaningless as the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Posted by Jonathan on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 20:26pm


Still no RUSH, Genesis, or YES. R&RHOF is still ridiculous.

Posted by Robert B. on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 20:32pm


I have always been a huge supporter of the Hall. I have visited it over the years and love the original inducties and those who were truly deserving of the Hall.

Now it seems like they are chosing groups to try and achieve some kind of quoto or some kind of strategy to revamp careers of groups past their prime but still under contract with record companies.

If you think about being alive in the 70s and listening to the radio or going to see concerts, you must remember the groups that really mattered.

Zepplin, Stones, Skynyrd, Alman Bros were some of the best. But so were the Cars. If Madonna can get it, why is it so unbelievable that BeeGees could get in? They play dance music. At least the BeeGees wrote, sang and played their own instruments....

What about Joy Division, Smiths, New Order? Duran Duran? Once again, they wrote their own Music, sang their own songs and played thier own instruments...

RUN DMC? Are you kidding? Have you been to a Run DMC concert? I have been to many and I like them, but they should never be in the Hall.

They should put, Peter Tosh, Bunny Wailer, and other Reggae contributers. Once again, wrote their own songs, played their own instruments and sang their own songs.

Posted by Troy on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 22:17pm


"Once again, wrote their own songs, played their own instruments and sang their own songs."

Like Elvis.

Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 22:55pm


Hall and Oates- like em or hate em...they are great song writers and musicians. I don't agree with Madonna- she's all show and nothing else. I also agree with Rush, Chicago, Genesis, Stevie Ray Vaughn and Cyndi Lauper. This year's noms are great in their own way- Little Anthony and the Imperials has to be my favorite.

Posted by Deb on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 00:08am


it just seems the hof has to always include a artist from the 60's. i love music from that time, but you can't include everyone. to continue overlooking so many artist from the 70's, & now the 80's, is wrong. the hof needs to start inducting 10 artist a year to make up all that's been overlooked. then maybe they'll get some credibility back.

Posted by thomas johnson on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 00:32am


This is who I feel may get in:

Run-D.M.C.
Metallica
The Stooges
Wanda Jackson
Bobby Womack (or Little Anthony & the Imperials)

For some reason, I can't see War, Chic or Jeff Beck (though he is a guitar great and probably should've been inducted long time ago, as well as Jackson, Womack and the Imperials) being shoo-ins but we'll see in January.

Posted by Tim on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 01:58am


Then again, Jeff Beck may just get in because, like someone said, Stevie Ray may be next, lol. So "let's induct Jeff as a soloist", lol.

It's odd since both Jeff Beck and Bobby Womack had success as sidemen for acts like Rod Stewart (Beck) and Sly Stone (Womack) but both are in the nominating committee for performers inducted so that's quite interested but it does make sense since both of them had prolific recording careers in front of the microphone, Bobby much more so at least on the R&B charts.

Little Anthony/Imperials could be the DC5 but then they may not get in until next year like the DC5.

Wanda Jackson COULD get in... then again maybe not.

Posted by Tim on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 02:03am


blah-blah-blah

Re, "Not before Joy Division, Cure and a few others", I do think the Cure will get in when Depeche do, but as for Joy Division, i have always thought New Order more likely if they do not induct them together.

MBI,

Re, "I could hear cases for Barry White, Teddy Pendergrass or Donny Hathaway, I could certainly understand Barry White more readily than War given his recognisable "Can't Get Enough of Your Love", but not the other two. War I do not understand, not Little Anthony. It seems as if there are diehards on the nominating committee lobbying for doo-wop groups whom people my age (31) have trouble recognising.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 02:25am


It's odd since both Jeff Beck and Bobby Womack had success as sidemen for acts like Rod Stewart (Beck) and Sly Stone (Womack) but both are in the nominating committee for performers inducted (tim)

I always thought that the name of the band that Stewart nd Beck played in together was called the Jeff Beck Group.

The wonder here is how they are going to view Beck's work after the Yardbirds. Is his solo career being judged on everything after that point; Beck, Bogart and Appice, the Jeff Beck Group and his 70's releases which included Wired and Blow by Blow or just the latter?

I still think his performances at the ARMs concerts where is completely abused Clapton and Page are HoF worthy unto itself. I can certainly see where some would want the last guitar hero of the 60's inducted before they move onto SRV.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 03:44am


I'll repeat over here what I repeated at another blog, about three people who could have repeat inductions. . . .

Of course, Jeff Beck has already been inducted with the Yardbirds.

But Sammy Strain of Little Anthony & the Imperials, who sang on their hits from 1964 on, has already been inducted with the O'Jays.

And the big question is: Will Eric Burdon of the Animals be inducted with War?

Posted by Charles Crossley, Jr. on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 03:55am


Eric Burdon should be inducted as a former member of War

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 05:15am


They should bring back the "Early Influences" category and nominate Frank Sinatra and Judy Garland. Almost every male and female popular singer have been influenced by these two.

Posted by mook on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 05:27am


Dezmond, concerning Jeff Beck not being innovative, I still stand by that. He's JUST a guitar player. Some dude that plays the guitar well or uniquely can't really hold a candle to the contributions that Brian Eno, Joy Division & The Smiths brought to the rock genre.

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 06:36am


Casper...I don't agree with that at all. Producers AND BANDS (with few exceptions) come and go. No great, innovative guitarists...no Rock & Roll.


NO WAY!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 07:31am


Bobby Womack was not just a sideman; that is how he started. He has played with, wrote for and performed his own hits. This man still performs today and draws thousands. If you are an icon in a genre (Like Bobby Womack is in soul, you should be a shoo-in). It is like anything else. If the majority doesn't feel it, then you are often overlooked - not intentionally but things should be in place to prevent this. This guys music was a therapuetic session during the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Posted by TSL on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 07:32am


Casper my friend, Beck is not just a guitar player. You are correct when you mention the importance of the other artists, but that should not diminsh what Beck has brought to music. I believe it is Beck who took the guitar out of the standards blues influenced chord progressions to a ballsier, harder sound and style. At least this is my opinion. Blow by Blow is friggin amazing.

This HoF with their stupid 5 artist limit is the one who is keeping bands out of the Hall. One band is not keeping another band out. I still cannot fathom how any of these bands, including my beloved Stooges are being inducted while Alice Cooper is still kept on the outside. Is there any logic to this at all? Bands like King Crimson and The Nice which then led to the amazing music of ELP and other prog rock bands are all still being kept out. Someone please explain that to me.

We all keep comparing one great band or artist to another as to induction, but the truth is, there are dozens of glaring mistakes with this stupid place. I think this place is a joke. We have people telling us who is great and who isn't. I have listened to, owned and played more music than I can imagine, I don't need Little Stevie, Paul Schaeffer or Jann Wenner to tell me what bands have impacted music and my life.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 07:39am


Someone earlier considered themself a rock aficinado but never head of Bobby womack. And he is said noone is listening to him today. If you beleive that, you are not an aficinado. First he still performs and while he is not as mainstream as Teddy, Barry or Donny, he has been every bit influential if not more so. This guy has written, played and perfomred HITS. He still performs today and his hits are classic. Not just one hit like Percey Sledge or 2 hits like RUN DMC.
If you really want to hear him at his best, dig up his cd "Resurrection". It is clearly the best "Rock and Soul", album ever produced yet was marketed very poorly. Its range is limitless. Check your Rock history.

Posted by tsl on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 07:47am


Someone earlier considered themself a rock aficinado but never head of Bobby womack. And he is said noone is listening to him today. If you beleive that, you are not an aficinado. First he still performs and while he is not as mainstream as Teddy, Barry or Donny, he has been every bit influential if not more so. This guy has written, played and perfomred HITS. He still performs today and his hits are classic. Not just one hit like Percey Sledge or 2 hits like RUN DMC.
If you really want to hear him at his best, dig up his cd "Resurrection". It is clearly the best "Rock and Soul", album ever produced yet was marketed very poorly. Its range is limitless. Check your Rock history.

Posted by tsl on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 07:47am


I was planning a fall visit to the HOF but after reading about how many groups that were played over & over on the radio in the 70's/80's & still today, are left out (Cooper,Rush,Floyd,Kiss)why bother? Do these ppl ever listen to a CLASSIC "rock" station?

Posted by beebee on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 08:21am


Probably the worst nominations ever.

No Donna Summer? Bon Jovi? Beastie Boys? etc.

Chic are the only deserving act here to be inducted. Even then its only really for Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards.

As people have mentioned before, we need more acts from 70s and 80s. Donna Summer is probably the biggest snub ever. Her influence on music is much greater than most people think.

Posted by Kieran on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 08:39am


Beebee, Floyd is in the Hall of Fame. Although, oddly enough, it took them 2 years to get in thanks to the voters' odd tendencies...

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 08:46am


Kieran, you need to get out more if you think that Donna is the biggest snub ever and that The Stooges is not a good nomination.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 08:49am


Man, you're weird, Kieran. I mean, I'm glad to have a disco/rap supporter on this board, but someone who isn't on board with these very very very influential rock groups on the list? And who the hell supports the Beasties but not Run-DMC?

Posted by MBI on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 09:00am


Since the board has had a bit of a 1960's flashback, I think a decent nominee fo at least 2010, would be Manfred Mann. Mike D'Abo, Manfred Lubowitz, created such memorable somgs like

Doo Wah Diddy
Fox on the Run
My Name is Jack
The Mighty Quinn
Ha-Ha Said the Clown

If anyone agrees or has a better candidate, I sure as hell wanna know.

Posted by Danny on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 12:28pm


Since the board has had a bit of a 1960's flashback, I think a decent nominee fo at least 2010, would be Manfred Mann. Mike D'Abo, Manfred Lubowitz, created such memorable somgs like

Doo Wah Diddy
Fox on the Run
My Name is Jack
The Mighty Quinn
Ha-Ha Said the Clown

If anyone agrees or has a better candidate, I sure as hell wanna know.

Posted by Danny on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 12:28pm


I totally agree with Danny.

(The Mighty Quinn was written by Dylan)

Another very deserving person from that same time would be Donovan.

Posted by classicrocker on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 12:59pm


You've got to be kidding me. Yet another lame list of nominees for the Hall of Fame. Aside from Metallica, I can't figure out how any of them made the list. The nominating committee has apparently forgotten all about the worthy prog rock bands such as Yes, Rush, Genesis, and Jethro Tull that are much more deserving of induction than the rest of this year's group. These four bands have sold tons of records/CDs, have had long, successful careers, have made great, innovative music, and inspired a generation of musicians. Ask yourself if the same can be said about War, The Stooges, or (God forbid) Chic?? Unbelievable.

Posted by Rob T on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 13:13pm


Again, spoken like someone who knows not a goddamn thing about the Stooges.

Posted by MBI on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 13:14pm


The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame isnt' a popularity contest. Think of it more like a curated art museum.

Posted by mel on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 13:37pm


Ask yourself if the same can be said about War, The Stooges, or (God forbid) Chic?? (Rob T)

The Stooges are often regarded as hugely influential in alternative rock, heavy metal and, punk rock. That is three different genres right there Rob. There is absolutely no questioning their worthiness.

I agree that Prog Rock is being unfairly ignored by the idiots on the nominating commitee but we have bitched about that for years. But then, they are still ignoring Alice Cooper which I don't think anyone understands. It is not one bands fault for another band not being nominated. And really, if you are going to name Prog Rock bands, you need to make sure that you have King Crimson on the top of the list.

And really, the way I see it, Jeff Beck has influenced as many if not more guitarists than anyone including Clapton, Page, Hendrix and SRV. I have already explained why, but if you need, listen to Wired or Blow by Blow.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 14:07pm


Since the board has had a bit of a 1960's flashback, I think a decent nominee fo at least 2010, would be Manfred Mann. Mike D'Abo, Manfred Lubowitz, created such memorable somgs like

Doo Wah Diddy
Fox on the Run
My Name is Jack
The Mighty Quinn
Ha-Ha Said the Clown

If anyone agrees or has a better candidate, I sure as hell wanna know.

Posted by Danny on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 12:28pm

Manfred Mann isn't bad, but how about Paul Revere and the Raiders?

Posted by Brian on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 14:22pm


To put my 2 cents in, when Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page both declare(as well as many other great guitarists)that Jeff Beck is the greatest guitarist alive today, he gets my vote. I have seen him 3 times and he is an amazing guitarist. He can play everything from jazz, to blues, to metal and everything in between.

Posted by Gene on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 15:09pm


So glad to see that War finally made the list. The only unfortunate thing is the fact that the "original" WAR band is not together as it should be. I hope that if they do get their most deserved recognition, that all original members (Howard Scott, Harold Brown, B.B Dickerson, Lee Oskar-still going strong as the Lowrider Band)get their right to be at the induction ceremony just as well as Lonnie Jordan.

WAR music has been in American culture for 40 years and even if you are not a WAR fan, I can guarantee you know a WAR song no matter what kind of music you like.

Posted by lowrider band fan on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 17:08pm


Early Influence

Frank Sinatra

Non-Performers

John Simon
Tom Dowd
Arif Mardin
Phil Ramone
Quincy Jones
David Foster
Casey Kasem
Bernie Taupin

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 17:13pm


This is the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame having issues. Any questions?

Why yes, there are things I want to add. First off, I am wondering if the Hall of Fame Nominating Committee thinks that some artists have been inducted when it is quite the opposite. For instance, the Hall of Fame's synopsis regarding Metallica, whom I am certain will be inducted, mentions Iron Maiden and Killing Joke. There is a problem, though: Iron Maiden and Killing Joke are not inducted yet. And, at least with Iron Maiden, they need to be. It just seems odd to mention two important influences of Metallica, yet not include them in the Hall of Fame. It would be similar to voters of the Baseball Hall of Fame thinking "Jim Rice was the most dominant hitter in the American League for a period of 12 seasons. Let us induct Fred Lynn!" Just because Lynn had the MVP season in 1975 does not mean you induct Lynn over Rice. By the way, Jim Rice must be inducted before the year is out.

Getting back to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, many of these potential inductees have counterparts that were, in all fairness, greater than the finalists chosen. Even the five I pick from the list (Metallica, Chic, Wanda Jackson, Jeff Beck, and Iggy Pop/The Stooges) have, slightly greater artists ahead of them in their respective fields. For one instance, I highly respect Bobby Womack; yet, would I induct Womack before Lionel Richie, Luther Vandross, Donny Hathaway, George Benson (his instrumental Breezin' was written by Womack), The Stylistics, Teddy Pendergrass, or heck, even Nina Simone or Todd Rundgren? The answer is possibly no. Honestly, I did not even think of bobby Womack being considered for induction. So, either I am not in touch, or the Hall of Fame Nominating Committee figured that Womack was a pick unjustly ignored.

And another thing: it would appear that the legion of Bon Jovi fans are very pissed off about this lack of being inducted for the group. Again, I am rather indifferent towards these guys; however, many were thinking they would be the shoo-ins for induction in 2009. I know for myself, I was pleased that Run-DMC made the cut amongst first-timers, yet saddened that Stevie Ray Vaughan did not get a nod. Yet again, it is a problem when SRV has been dead for 18 years.

Rummaging through my stack of records and MP3s, I notice more artists not yet in: Journey, Kansas, Split Enz, Phillip Glass (yes, Phillip Glass), Grand Funk Railroad, Utopia, The Nazz, Hawkwind, and amongst others I have liked yet do not have CDs and MP3s and DVDs of. Why are these artists, and those I mentioned in my previous post, not in yet?

At any rate, those are some ponderings I have. I am, though, firmly aware that Peter Gabriel will be in the Hall of Fame, likely by next year alonside his Genesis bandmates, including Steve Hackett and Tony Banks, for individual and collective contributions. It will in all means occur in a unique and seperate ceremony. This has been the most overlooked of inductees to be, and honestly, the time has come for Gabriel to be honored, as himself and along with the Genesis tree.

PS. I have no ill will towards Jann Wenner, himself a Hall of Fame inductee. My letters and e-mail I have sent to him and he has read regarding Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford have simply given Wenner all the convincing needed at the time to remind Wenner of the five artists' importance to their respective fields, in music, video, and humanitarian ideals. Ahmet Ertegun knew this, and had the highest amount of respect for Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, Collins and Rutherford. Wenner knows this to be true as well. The time to correct the oversight has come. There will be no problem in my end for the Genesis tree, even including Peter Gabriel, to be inducted in a special acheivement format with a night of tributes of all their own.

You better beleive it (it's so easy to say),

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 17:47pm


Caspar, you can say that Jeff Beck was "just a guitarist," but the guitar is the most important instrumental piece of the rock and roll puzzle. It would be ludicrous for someone to say that Jimi Hendrix was not innovative because he was "just a guitarist." Beck revolutionized rock guitar as much as Hendrix did. Some of these other commentators are correct. When your esteemed peers like Clapton and Page (and add Santana to that list) all acknowledge that Beck is the greatest living guitarist, that really says something about his overall impact on the most important instrument of the genre.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 18:21pm


Agreed, Casper is narrow minded. Do ya think Beck influenced anyone? Ha ha. Since he is "just a guitarist" does that mean that only groups can get in??

Posted by Rock-n-Roll live on on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 18:29pm


Definitely too much narrow mindedness in the RRHOF. Not enough emphasis on raw talent/energy. Too much emphasis on innovation & influence. Needs a better balance between the three.

Posted by Arrow Man on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:07pm


More artists that should be in HOF

Todd Rundgren
Bad Company/Free/Paul Rodgers
Zombies/Argent
T-Rex/Marc Bolan
Herman's Hermits
Donovan
Emerson Lake and Palmer
King Crimson
Strawbs
Yes
Hollies
Jethro Tull
Moody Blues
Aphrodite's Child/Vangelis
Grand Funk Railroad
Procol Harum
Spirit
Humble Pie/Small Faces/Peter Frampton










Posted by Danny on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:38pm


And while I'm at it....
The Zombies
Cheap Trick
Alice Cooper
Moody Blues
and....THE HOLLIES.

Posted by Steve on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 19:42pm


I'm gonna bet it'll be Metallica, Run-DMC, the Stooges, Jeff Beck and Chic.

Metal, Hip-Hop, Punk, Blues, and Disco. That'll be an interesting class.

Posted by SSR on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 20:11pm


who the hell are the stooges?

Posted by huh? on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 22:35pm


Thanks for the latest news! I think its a diverse list they got, but agreeing with mostly everyone, I think 9 nominees and 5 inductees this year is too little. I'll go ahead and analyze my opinions:

Metallica: don't want to see them there just yet (I hope 5 years from now)
Run DMC: Before they even put another rap act, they should at least put another one that paved the way for them.
The Stooges: deservable
Jeff Beck: He's without question one of the greatest guitar heros of all time, so deserving.
Little Anthony & the Imperials: one of my fave doo-wop groups of the 60s; definitely deserving.
Bobby Womack: I know he's put out a ton of hits (according to Joel Whitburn's Top R&B Singles) but I had never heard one of them until last year, until someone lent me his "The Poet" album. Good listen, but I'd like to wait a few years on this man.
Wanda Jackson: Unsure. Sounds deserving!
War: They weren't the first latin-poprock act, but they did have a great different sound throughout the 1970s. Deserving!
Chic: What? Another disco-R&B act? Why not just put Gloria Gaynor or at least a 60s R&B act in! Not deserving

Posted by Jason on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 22:43pm


WHERE THE HELL IS SRV AND DT???!!!
How could they not have been nominated this year?
SRV and DT should have been first time eligible inductees. Music experts? I think not.

Posted by Mosey Long on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 08:37am


It's kinda shocking that Frank Sinatra isn't in the HOF in some fashion (nor is he listed at this site, correct?)

About this year's nominees- glad Bon Jovi wasn't on the list- no more deserving, really, than Foreigner or Journey.

Posted by JR on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 09:58am


Reminder: It's the ROCK AND ROLL Hall of Fame. That should mean from this year's dismal bunch, Metallica, The Stooges and Jeff Beck should be in. I have no real problem with expanding the definition of R&R to be more inclusive and would be ok with RunDMC. But there's plenty of ROCK AND ROLL artists still missing, like the entire 1970s (Genesis, Yes, Tull, Moody Blues, King Crimson, ELP, ya da ya da ya da). You've heard it all before.

Posted by dp on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 11:40am


"the definition of R&R to be more inclusive and would be ok with RunDMC. But there's plenty of ROCK AND ROLL artists still missing"
Posted by dp on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 11:40am

Agreed,MANY even before those you mention.
Run DMC helped (in a high profile way) merge Rap/rock and in the process inspired many so I have no problem with them "eventually' getting the nod.

Posted by Lynn on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 11:49am


LISTEN EVERYONE!!!!

Chic, Donna Summer, The Stooges, Genesis and Roxy Music should be inducted this year.

I am a huge music fan from disco to heavy metal to rap to pop.

All of these artists nominated for 2009 are in one way or another popular; but Donna Summer, Roxy Music and Genesis should be inducted due to their influence on rock 'n' roll.

Donna Summer- known for her disco hits in late 70s/early 80s but helped to create and develop many genres of music and became a leading figurehead for female singer/songwriters in pop/rock music. Her ever changing image and concept albums are often overlooked. Her most famous followers are Madonna and Cyndi Lauper.

Genesis- known for their rock (often progressive) 70s/80s hits. Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel later became stars in their own right.

Roxy Music- as influential in the 70s as Donna Summer and David Bowie. Helped pave the way for many 80s acts. Famous followers include Japan, Duran Duran and Eurythmics.

Do people agree with what I said? I know many of you might think Metallica should get inducted.

Posted by James on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 12:53pm


Now that it's been a few days, a lot of the inductees make more sense to me. I still don't get Bobby Womack or War though. Still, a ceremony led by The Stooges, Run-DMC and Metallica really does feel like a Rock Hall stepping way out of its comfort zone. The Rock Hall has a long history of not being able to induct hip-hop, heavy metal or Iggy Pop, but I can't imagine these three acts not being inducted out of this list. I will be blown away if they are not, and I can't take another Stooges snub.

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 14:13pm


Shame to Jann Wenner, for picking the following political knuckleheads over the last few years, over more deserving artists

John Mellencamp
The Pretenders
U2
R.E.M.
Patti Smith
Jackson Browne
Bruce Springsteen (although he had to get in for his popularity)
Madonna

It brings shame to what this Hall of Fame has become

Posted by Danny on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 19:52pm


I think Springsteen deserved to get in Danny

Posted by Keebord on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 20:04pm


JR, about Frank Sinatra:

You know, if it were ten years ago, when Sinatra still lived, I would say perhaps a yes for induction. And even since he passed, I could and do note his influence, particularly since his latter years were more in the form of soft rock. Yet, here is the thing when honoring Francis Albert Sinatra: there is literally no room to induct other artists other than Sinatra when Frank Sinatra is being inducted.

It might be easier now in the context of Sinatra having died in 1998 to, however posthumous, consider his works for induction. Yet, as I said, the whole night of Hall of Fame inductions would have to rely on only inducting Sinatra and being only about Sinatra. Simply stated, it would be how Frank Sinatra wanted it to be; him and him only, and perhaps his Rat Pack buddies. That would not be a problem on my part. We are, however, dealing with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and to many, Frank Sinatra was not rock and/or roll; he was Sinatra.

Now, on the flip side, Peter Gabriel is rock and roll to an extant far greater. Same goes with his fellow mates from Genesis, particularly the classic lineup of Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford. An intricate induction deservance of Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, and Genesis (and yes, Collins and Rutherford) will be needed of special induction and awarding measures. Thus, I will state that, in large measure to what we have discussed and e-mails sent to Jann Wenner and the Hall of Fame Foundation Nominating Committee, and the fact that popularity and acheivments have been expanded on these five artists, the classic line-up of Genesis; Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford will be inducted into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 for individual and collective works in a special acheivement induction category format. This, by the by, will allot for a unique added ceremony and/or concert/tribute that emphasizes there innovative works and ideals. And it will culminate in the main inductions ceremony for the main category inductees. This will likely be the first in what will be an annual process of special inductions for overlooked artists that were involved in bands that had both individual and collective greatness to their credits.

To note, in similar fashion to Future Rock Hall understandably loobying for Sonic Youth through their eventual induction (possibly in that special acheivemnt process I just mentioned), I continue to lobby for Peter Gabriel, alonside in equal measure Genesis, both individually and collectively. There is no problem with doing this. It is even truer when the process of induction will come.

There can only be one (maybe),

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 20:10pm


Lax25, would you get off the Peter Gabriel and Genesis kick. They aren't going into the Hall of Fame this year.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 20:33pm


What idiot thinks that inducting U2 or REM or Springsteen is a "political" move? I guess that assumes that Michael Stipe is friendly with the Rock Hall, but if he wasn't, do you really believe that R.E.M. don't have a legacy of making rock history? Who the hell is more deserving than U2?

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 20:45pm


Interesting as always. A few nominations surprised me, but I've seen worse. My predictions, in order of likely induction:

1) Stooges. Way overdue. The Stooges influence and impact on the Punk movement (and later the indie movement) is undeniable. Considering they've been nominated numerous times before I don't see any way they don't get in this year.

2) Run-DMC. I correctly predicted they would get nominated this year and the Beastie Boys would not. The Hall simply cannot put in the Beastie Boys before Run-DMC so they are pretty much locks.

3) Metallica. One could argue that Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Deep Purple or Motorhead deserve to be in before Metallica but they have yet to be nominated. Metallica certainly changed the face of metal in the 80's regardless of who influenced them. They get in now and perhaps one of the others gets in later.

A big drop after these three.

4) Chic. I'm still a bit puzzled by the Hall's love of Chic. Sure Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards had some talent, but I do think if another disco artist is added it should be Donna Summer, who seemed to have a more lasting impact on dance music, and more hits to boot. Still they have been nominated too many times to be dismissed, so they probably get in this year.

After Chic it's a crapshoot for the last induction.

Wanda Jackson: Old school sentiment and true believers like Elvis Costello give her a decent shot. The lack of female nominees this year also helps. But she is still pretty obscure to a lot of folks.

Jeff Beck: If this was the musician or guitar player Hall of Fame he would already be in. Yes he's that talented. However how influential was Jeff Beck post-Yardbirds? I own a couple of his CDs and have seen him live. I just wonder how influential this talented musician really is.

Little Anthony & the Imperials: Doo-Wop was an important part of rock history and Little Anthony & the Imperials material certainly stands with the best of the genre. I guess the question should be how many Doo-Wop groups deserve induction? I think you can argue either way.

Bobby Womack: His overall credentials as a solo artist, songwriter and session musician are collectively impressive. But as a solo artist you could probably make an argument for several other R&B artists.

War: Probably the most surprising nomination to me, and one I fully support. IMO the most glaring omission of the 70's R&B/Funk acts. They combined rock, jazz, R&B, funk and latin for a truly unique sound. They were capable of laid-back and fun (see "Low Rider" or "Summer") or socially conscious ("The World Is A Ghetto"). I think they did have a pretty big impact on later day Funk/Hip Hop/Latin acts as well as R&B influenced "jam" bands. That said I think they are the least likely of the 9 nominations to get inducted.

The 5 I think get in:
Stooges
Metallica
Run-DMC
Chic
Wanda Jackson

The 5 I hope get in:
Stooges
Metallica
Run-DMC
War
Little Anthony & the Imperials



Posted by ms.music on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 23:57pm


I do think it's MOST IMPORTANT that the Stooges get in this year. There are so many deserving punk/post-punk acts that probably won't be lobbied for until the Stooges are in. Sad but true, especially for influential bands that have not racked up impressive record sales. After the Stooges are in perhaps attention will be given to Joy Division, the Jam, Sonic Youth, Gang of Four, the Cure, the Smiths, Buzzcocks, Siouxie & the Banshees, Bauhaus, etc. Okay at least a few of these bands!

Posted by ms.music on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 00:07am


I think the HoF's decision to limit to the amount of inductees to 5 per year has caused some havoc with this process. If they had made this decision after they had been completely finished with the 60's and first few years of the 70's, then the 5 might have worked. But as we know, there are members on the nominating board who will not rest until everyone of the early 60's heros are inducted. And this is having a trickle down effect. Ms. music named several bands who clearly deserve induction and I would add The Cars, Kraftwerk, Richard Hell and a few others to that list. But how can we get to this era in music when the idiots in the HoF cannot even bring themselves to nominate other musicial entities that are being passed over for who knows what reason. No Prog Rock, no Alice. I just really don't understand. I think they need to get back to inducting at least 10 artists for the next 5 or six years. Let's clear up these glaring errors.

Ms. Music - Of this list of 9, Beck has to go in. I am pleasantly surprised by the nomination. His influence will last into the 22nd century. And with all due respect - no way Little Anthony should get in.

If the Hall wants, they should set-up a veterans's committee just like in baseball. It is here where they can start looking at those musicians and bands who the Hall passed over 20 years ago.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 05:11am


blah-blah-blah:

I agree that a limit of 5 inductees per year is wrecking havoc on the process. I understand they don't want to open the floodgates, but I think there are too many important acts, especially ones with influence, but limited record sales, that will be overlooked or have to wait way too long to get in. Nominate 12 and induct 7 or 8. I also wholeheartedly agree that there should be some type of "veterans committee" to induct overlooked older acts. I think this should be for artists that have been eligible for induction for twenty years or more but have not gotten in. For example that would include anyone that released their first record in 1963 or earlier. Wanda Jackson or Little Anthony for example could be considered by this committee without taking a nomination spot from someone like Joy Division or Kraftwerk or X or King Crimson or whoever. The old schoolers hellbent on getting their faves in still get their chance and it opens up more spots for other deserving artists.

Of the 9? Well this wouldn't have been the nine I would have nominated, but I'm just stating my opinions on these artists. I realize I may be in the minority with Jeff Beck, but I think his influence is more on musicians than music if that makes any sense. To me he's a talented guitar virtuoso, but not one that really altered music. I think his most important work with the Yardbirds has already been recognized. No problem if he gets in, but I guess I don't feel it like you do.

Glaring omissions? A bunch, I agree. Not a prog rock fan but it needs to be recognized by more than Pink Floyd. King Crimson would be my first choice, but I don't have a problem with Tull, 70's Genesis, Yes or a few others. Kraftwerk needs to get in. The Cars are an important "gateway" band and they deserve induction. Alice Cooper is deserving. No Kiss though! Another early metal band or two (Judas Priest perhaps) should get in. Abba should get in. T. Rex, Roxy Music, Captain Beefheart. And then you get to the late 70's/80's punk/post-punk/college radio era. A lot of very influential bands didn't sell a ton of records but need to be recognized. I fear with the current restrictions and committee makeup, worthy bands like Joy Division, the Jam, X, Replacements, XTC, Sonic Youth, the Smiths, etc might be passed by for more commercially successful acts like the Eurythmics, Duran Duran, Depeche Mode or the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I don't necessarily want to exclude some of the more popular omissions (insert rabid Rush or SRV fans here) but I do think the Hall must include more huge influences regardless of record sales. Increasing the inductions from 5 to 7 or installing a "veteran's committee" would certainly help appease at least some fans.

Anyway if I stick around here you guys will probably get sick of me promoting my faves! I worked in radio for about 3 years (86-88) and I want the right bands represented.....lol!!!

Posted by ms.music on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 06:41am


If Brian says it, it must be true! Or is it probably true?

With all due respect, the short answer I can give regarding my lobbying for Peter Gabriel and Genesis, mainly the classic lineup, and the need to stop it despite the eventual induction by next year (Class of 2009) is: no!

The proposal that has been considered for the special acheivement induction for individual and collective works of a band en masse will take into fruition. And the first to receive this induction will, in fact, be Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford; the classic lineup of Genesis, for both individual and collective works and ideals. This process clears room for other deserving inductees to be considered all at one time.

By the by, Blah-blah-blah has made an interesting premise for a veteran's committee category. This will in all likelihood be considered as well.

To conclude, it will happen that Peter Gabriel will be inducted in the Class of 2009, alongside Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford in that special acheivement induction I just mentioned. Really, don't be negative on this format.

Guess the reference in the last sentence (again),

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 06:58am


The proposal that has been considered for the special acheivement induction for individual and collective works of a band en masse will take into fruition. And the first to receive this induction will, in fact, be Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford; the classic lineup of Genesis, for both individual and collective works and ideals. This process clears room for other deserving inductees to be considered all at one time. (Lax)

Would you care to make a friendly on-line wager that this will not happen? I say that there is no way in the world this institution changes its way of doing things just for Genesis.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 07:15am


No Stevie Ray Vaughan, what was the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Committee Thinking? To me this Year Metallica and Stevie Ray Vaughan were the only for sure artists out there!!!! They got it only half right---The others Little Anthony, Run DMC, Chic, They could wait another year- Jeff Beck, Wanda Jackson, The Stooges and War I could see any of them make it but still not over Stevie Ray!!! What were they thinking?????

Posted by Stan on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 08:39am


What is this stuff about Genesis, They don't even belong near Stevie Ray Vaughan, If you put Anything by Genesis in the Rock Hall we might as well blow up the hall of fame and start over!!!! Other bands are more deserving then them-- Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, Moody Blues, Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, Even Foreigner who doesn't belong is better than Genesis, LAX what planet did you come from!!!!

Posted by Stan on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 08:49am


LAX PLZ SHIUT UP ABOUT GENESIS. YOUR BLODDY GOIGN ON ABOUT THEM

& everyone needs to calm down, take a cfhill pill. It doesnt mattr if metallica got in before def leppard or maiden or run dmc got in before a nother nfluences.

or run dmc should not be in cause they are rap

there are on ly 1 rule & that 25 years. there are no boundariues.


my picks
MELTALLICA
STOOGES
RUN DMC
JEFF BECK
wANDA JACKON

CAUSE THEY USED a genre of rock


everyone else CAN P OFF. rfnb & disco is preprocessed & packaed


LAO IM A METALHEAD WIYTH A FEW TOUCHES OF ROCK. metal is better that pop music & would kill it any day. if metallica gets in it will open thew flood gates for other metal bands

just like sabbath opened the gates for metallica

Posted by martin on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 09:31am


If The Rock Hall continues to shun The Stooges and Chic to induct late 50s-early 60s acts (The Dave Clark Five and The Ventures) scenario:

RUN-DMC
Metallica
Jeff Beck
Little Anthony and the Imperials
Wanda Jackson


If the Rock Hall shuns RUN-DMC and Metallica:

Chic
The Stooges
Jeff Beck
Little Anthony and the Imperials
Wanda Jackson


If the Rock Hall shuns Chic, The Stooges, Metallica and RUN-DMC:

War
Jeff Beck
Bobby Womack
Wanda Jackson
Little Anthony and the Imperials


Little Anthony and the Imperials and Wanda Jackson will be inducted. The Ventures and Dave Clark Five of 2009!

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 10:05am


No Smiths (naturally), no Roxy Music (again), no Tom Waits, no Lou Reed...

But no Bon Jovi, Kiss or Rush either.

Could have been a lot worse.

Posted by denyo on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 13:26pm


I'm still kind of stung by no SRV. I thought he was the no-brainer, surefire pick. But I'm sure most said the same about Metallica last year. We'll have to wait and see. I'll vote later.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 14:07pm


I did research on each of these artists. I had no idea who Bobby Womack was but he played or wrote for eveyone it seems. He has been around forever. I must say I am a bit fascinated at this point and bought a cd of his last night. Will listen to it tonight and post comments tomorrow.

Posted by nancy on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 14:52pm


My Top 5:

Metallica
War
Bobby Womack
Stooges
Little Anthony

Posted by tsl on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 15:00pm


Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is turning into a joke now. WAR, Wanda JACKSON, LITTLE ANTHONY, STOOGES (only made one decent record), Jeff BECK (Sideman not a great solo artist), CHIC (only 4 decent songs), The only worthwhile artists are METALLICA, Bobby WOMACK & RUN DMC.
Where the hell are BIG STAR, ZOMBIES, SMALL FACES, Candi STATON, REPLACEMENTS, HUSKER DU, John STEWART, Townes VAN ZANDT, ABBA, Cat STEVENS, SMITHS, Donna SUMMER, RASPBERRIES, FACES, DEEP PURPLE, SUPERTRAMP,Ann PEEBLES, Randy NEWMAN, Merle HAGGARD (if Johnny CASH can get in), Waylon JENNINGS (likewise), Willie NELSON (likewise), George JONES (likewise), Dolly PARTON (likewise), JOY DIVISION/NEW ORDER, ROXY MUSIC, JAM, Gram PARSONS, Gene CLARK, KRAFTWERK, Charlie RICH, Jimmy CLIFF (if Bob MARLEY can get in), Neil DIAMOND, THIN LIZZY, Minnie RIPERTON, FAIRPORT CONVENTION, Richard THOMPSON, Dionne WARWICK, Sandy DENNY, Donny HATHAWAY, FREE, Nick DRAKE (if Leonard COHEN can get in),HALL & OATES, John HIATT, MOTT THE HOOPLE, LOVE, Steve MILLER BAND, Boz SCAGGS, NILSSON, Todd RUNDGREN, John PRINE, Leon RUSSELL, SPIRIT, XTC and Tom WAITS.
The Hall Of Fame is now too politically correct. It feels oh so guilty if it doesn't put black artists in there. The Black Artists are running out fast and there are a significant number of black artists who should not be in there. If Rhythm & Blues can get in there then some Country & Western can. Rock & Roll is defined as a fusion of Rhythm & Blues and Country & Western music so reflect that.
Come on Hall of Fame, get your act together.

Posted by JOAN PEARSON on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 15:13pm


What idiot thinks that inducting U2 or REM or Springsteen is a "political" move? I guess that assumes that Michael Stipe is friendly with the Rock Hall, but if he wasn't, do you really believe that R.E.M. don't have a legacy of making rock history? Who the hell is more deserving than U2?

Look at it this way couldn't more deserving acts
that have been around longer have gotten in by now. Check out those names above. Oh and about 100 other groups are or will be more deserving than U2. If you see a pattern all these artists and groups are engaged in politics (left-wing I might add). This is no coincedence at all, politics is what Jann Wenner looks for. It's unfortunate and I wish it wasn't the case

Posted by Danny on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 15:54pm


How does Run DMC get nominated, but KISS remains un-nominated? Seriously. Kiss's music maybe as far from "Highbrow" as you can get, but there is no denying the influence they've had on the rock bands of the 80s and 90s!!

Posted by Eddy Jones on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 16:58pm


Before Genesis gets in, The Moody Blues should get in. According to the book "Genesis: Chapter and Verse" Mike Pinder, the MBs keyboard player was interested in signing Genesis to the Moodies' Threshold label. Justin Hayward, guitarist/vocalist and Graeme Edge, drummer, felt likewise about king Crimson.

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 17:01pm


Martin, please spell more correctly next time.

Stan, you appear to be correct in certain respects, yet rather incorrect in your assertion that Peter Gabriel/Steve Hckett/Tony Banks/Genesis be never inducted. It appears to me that you have not bothered to even hear their albums and songs.

Now then, blah-blah-blah, I will be correct in my process. It seems the best and most logical of means to induct Peter Gabriel and Genesis' classic lineup in this special acheivement format. By all means, they will be the first, for this Class of 2009 induction. In the years to come, more individual and collective en masse inductions for special acheivement will take place.

For example, as Aaron O'Donnell has mentioned, a follow-up for this special acheivement induction would include King Crimson. To note, King Crimson had at least a total of thirteen (13) members that went on to expand their pallete of works beyond the framework of the King Crimson banner: Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, Bill Bruford, Greg Lake, Peter Giles, Boz Burrell, Mel Collins, Gordon Haskell, John Wetton, Keith Tippett, Michael Giles, Ian Wallace. in fact, including posthumous consideration for Burrell and Wallace, all of their individual works are now eligible. This would be a perfect fit for this special acheivement induction. Other artists and groups would include for both individual and collective works; Yes, the Moody Blues, Roxy Music, the Move, et al.

So as you can see, in addition to the five possible performance category inductees of Iggy Pop/ the Stooges, Chic, Jeff Beck, Wanda Jackson, and Metallica, and alongside Bernie Taupin being inducted in the non-performers category, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford will be inducted in the special acheivement individual and collective category as Genesis and on their own accords. And yes, I do include Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford.

Thus I have written,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 18:28pm


"It seems the best and most logical of means to induct Peter Gabriel and Genesis' classic lineup in this special acheivement format."

You realize you're an insane person, right, Lax?

Posted by MBI on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 19:30pm


Wow this site is pretty funny. It's all Peter Gabriel & Coven all the time! And I admit I do like Peter Gabriel, but the Hall isn't going to do anything special for him. He gets in whenever he gets in, with or without Genesis.

Posted by ms.music on Thursday, 09.25.08 @ 23:26pm


Martin, please spell more correctly next time.

why should i give a F about spelling your the only 1 complaining over it & everyone is complying about you for not shutting your dam mouth over genesis

Posted by martin on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 08:41am


I think one of the big problem with nominating groups like Jethro Tull, Yes, Chicago (CTA), and minorly Genesis, which configuration of the band do you induct.

Using Tull as an example, would it be fair to just give it to Anderson and Barre, as the most consistant members, or do you open it up to all the playing members (even Iommi). Does Dee (David) Palmer complicates things. And these are just a couple of issues that come to mind.

Posted by Darkeldar on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:44pm


I think one of the big problem with nominating groups like Jethro Tull, Yes, Chicago (CTA), and minorly Genesis, which configuration of the band do you induct.Posted by Darkeldar

I agree,From the time of orig. conception which in the case of these groups goes back very far it can be tricky.
But with Tull being Ian Anderson has been the constant and the chief songwriter i don't think say they have to dig up Mick Abrahams just because he was an orig. founding member.

Joey Covington was a latterday member of Jefferson Airplane,he was not present when they were inducted and felt slighted i remember reading.
He's an an example of a latterday member who scored the bands last chart success (Pretty As You Feel) under the Jefferson Airplane monicker.

Posted by Gary James CA on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:57pm


Bands with more than 9 members in the Rock Hall - ALL INDUCTED!! This is directly from the Rock Hall website:

Parliament-Funkadelic - 16
The Grateful Dead - 12

Parliament-Funkadelic
Induction Year: 1997
Induction Category: Performer

Inductees: George Clinton (vocals; born July 22, 1940), Jerome “Bigfoot” Brailey (drums; born August 20, 1950), William “Bootsy” Collins (bass, vocals; born October 26, 1951), Raymond Davis (vocals; born March 29, 1940), Tiki Fulwood (drums, vocals; born May 23, 1944), Glenn Lamont Goins (vocals, guitar; born tk, died 1978), Michael Hampton (guitar; born November 15, 1956), Clarence “Fuzzy” Haskins (vocals; born June 8, 1941), Eddie Hazel (guitar, vocals; born April 10, 1950, died 1992), Walter “Junie” Morrison (keyboards, synthesizers; born tk), Cordell “Boogie” Mosson Jr. (bass; born October 16, 1952), William “Billy Bass” Nelson Jr. (bass; born January 28, 1951), Gary Shider (vocals, guitar; born July 24, 1953), Calvin “Thang” Simon (vocals; born May 22, 1942), Grady Thomas (vocals; born January 5, 1941), Bernie Worrell (keyboards, vocals, born April 19, 1944)

The Grateful Dead
Induction Year: 1994
Induction Category: Performer

Inductees: Tom Contanten (keyboards; born March 19, 1944), Jerry Garcia (guitar, vocals; born August 1, 1942, died August 9, 1995), Donna Godchaux (vocals; born August 22, 1945), Keith Godchaux (keyboards; born July 14, 1948, died July 21, 1980), Mickey Hart (drums, percussion; born September 11, 1943), Robert Hunter (lyricist; born June 23, 1941), Bill Kreutzmann (drums; born April 7, 1946), Phil Lesh (bass, vocals; born March 15, 1940), Ron “Pigpen” McKernan (keyboards, harmonica, vocals; born September 8, 1945, died March 8, 1973), Brent Mydland (keyboards, vocals; born October 21, 1952, died July 26, 1990), Bob Weir (guitar, vocals; born October 16, 1947), Vince Welnick (keyboards; born February 22, 1951, died June 2, 2006).

They inducted the lyricist as a group member!!

So the theory that the Rock Hall can't decide which members of a band like Chicago or Deep Purple to induct is bullshit!

Posted by Roy on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:58pm


So the theory that the Rock Hall can't decide which members of a band like Chicago or Deep Purple to induct is bullshit!
Posted by Roy on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 14:58pm

But Roy using say Deep Purple as an example.
Joe Lynn Turner was on one album with them,and technically a member.
But they've had a very long history,many members pass through.
Does he deserve to go in with them if/when they get inducted?
Again only using them as an example to show you where i'm coming from.
Point being does every non essential member get inducted who passed through a band?


Posted by Gary James CA on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 15:18pm


Tom Contanten was only with the Grateful Dead for 2 albums at the most, I believe; so based on that example I'd say the answer is yes.

Posted by classicrocker on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 17:53pm


Tom Contanten was only with the Grateful Dead for 2 albums at the most, I believe; so based on that example I'd say the answer is yes.
Posted by classicrocker

Good example,i'm not sure on this i'll be the first to admit.
If it's just a few lineup changes over the course of 20 yrs. but some of these bands really have had huge amounts of members pass through their ranks.
So what's the consensus on this here?
Most feel that all the members no matter how long their stay should be present and inducted with many lineup changes?
Again,i'm not sure my stance on this.

Posted by Gary James CA on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 18:00pm


Here is my take on whom to induct of specific members of a group:

First, and foremost, the classic line-up of a band needs to be inducted. If there were no such classic lineup, then clearly you can induct the most important figures throughout the years. Now, in my example of King Crimson, I listed thirteen important figures to be inducted, as individuals and as a collective. In my opinion, the classic King Crimson lineup is Fripp, Belew, Levin and Bruford. Yet, what is known is that there was a King Crimson before 1981; thus, the need is given to induct all main figures.

On the flip side, there are acts that have had lineup changes yet only one lineup is that much of importance. For instance, Black Sabbath having already been inducted, the honors went to only four of the members: for all purposes, the Black Sabbath; Ozzy Osbourne, Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, and Terry "Geezer" Butler.

One other act that you could induct with only one classic lineup is Split Enz. Because you see, Split Enz had one main lineup that lasted the longest and is still the lineup that has reunited: Neil Finn, Tim Finn, Eddie Rayner, Nigel Griggs, Noel Crombie, and Mal Green (maybe even Paul Hester.) I do know there was a Split enz before Neil Finn joined; yet, when Neil Finn came on board, Split Enz was completed in its main lineup.

There can be also unique cases that are similar with Yes. In that, Yes has had many associates, but only nine figures have definitively been Yes: Jon Anderson, Steve Howe, Rick Wakeman, Chris Squire, Alan White, Trevor Rabin, Tony Kaye, Bill Bruford, and Peter Banks. It is these nine artists that are Yes.

This type of notice again adds a format for special acheivement awarding that I have mentioned before. And yet again, it provides the proper format to induct the classic lineup of Genesis both individually and collectively. Once more, the classic lineup was Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford. And now we know that there will be a special acheivement for lifetime works induction format to be done for the Hall of Fame Class of 2009. I can assure you that Peter Gabriel will be amongst those inducted in this format, along with the classic lineup of Genesis, and with added notice to the individual works of Steve Hackett and Tony Banks. But also including Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford to go with the three aforesaid, to complete the tree of induction. To note, this form of induction will take place.

As well, I am not certain why Quincy Jones has yet been inducted. Maybe it is due to him receiving a Kennedy Center Honor; which, by the way, would explain Willie Nelson, amongst others, not being considered. But by all means, the Hall of Fame needs to induct Quincy Jones. The omission is startling.

Writing this sane and with confidence,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 20:21pm


Why are you so sure that Genesis is being inducted in a special election next year? Has your dream state collided with reality?

Posted by Casper on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 20:34pm


Heart. Because there are not any top Rock bands fronted by 2 women and they are sisters. Ann and Nancy are Rock N Roll Icons and legends who are still touring and ROCKING out! The Heart catalogue is immense. The songs Barracuda, Magic Man and Crazy On You are played on classic ROCK radio several times a day on my hometown radio station and yet Ann and Nancy Wilson are not in the RRHOF??? Heart has over 20 top 40 hits. If Heart doesnt come closer to meaning what true Rock N Roll is over Madonna? Come On? Its like someone said there are no women in the RRHOF so we have to put someone so we dont look sexist...ooh now lets see let think of a woman who represents Rock N Roll.....Oh yeah Madonna. Yeah lets induct Madonna, now they cant say we dont have very many women in the RRHOF. Madonna knows that Heart is Rock. Madonna knows that the way Nancy's guitar playing and Anns vocals deserve to be in the RRHOF over her.

Posted by ReigningQueenofRockAnnWilson on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 22:52pm


"To note, this form of induction will take place."--Lax25

How do you know?

Posted by Philip on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 23:00pm


Lax never answers that question Casper. I have asked him the same thing 10x already.

Why would this institution break away from the way they have been doing things for over 20 years just for Genesis? I can think of a dozen bands that should get in before them, starting with King Crimson.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.26.08 @ 23:38pm


Wow, what an awful list. The worst part is that even if this is someone "frontloading" in order to force in The Stooges, I'm not at all certain it will work. I picked them, Metallica, Jeff Beck, and Run-DMC. My fifth pick was random.

Metallica will probably get in. Heck, I don't even think they're a sure thing anymore. The committees are voting with their asses, it seems. But maybe that'll be enough.

Sonic Youth didn't even make the ballot. Color me surprised.

The induction ceremony is sure to be a complete dud this year.

Posted by William on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 02:54am


Funny, William, that was my thought exactly, except instead of the Stooges, I thought they're trying to force in Chic.

I'm predicting the Stooges, Metallica, Jeff Beck, Run-D.M.C. and Chic.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 02:58am


William and Phillip,

The possibility that someone is "frontloading" to get artists rejected again and again by the voters inducted is real.

I was really surprised at almost every choice for the 2008/2009 ballot. If you look at the site http://www.rateitall.com/t-2529-deserving-of-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame.aspx you will see that none of the top thirty artists made the 2008/2009 ballot. In 2005/2006, 2006/2007 and 2007/2008, at least two of the top twenty made the ballot.

Both the Stooges and Chic fit your description of "frontloading", but then so did Sabbath, the Sex Pistols and Patti Smith.

If the Stooges get voted in, I guess the Hall will attempt to induct the MC5, the New York Dolls and even Captain Beefheart using exactly the same techniques. So few performers newly eligible from now up to 2011/2012 seem probable that those three "protopunks" may well get in before the next crop of likely inductees emerged in 2012/2013.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 05:29am


I have to think Wanda Jacksonis a very long-running oversight. I think she gets overlooked on this site simply because people aren't aware of who she is (passage of time has a tendency to do that very thing). I think she's another one of those artists that you have to see as well as hear. She toured with Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Buddy Holly, and like Bill Haley, had more headliner success in Europe than in the states.

Even though she didn't have the booming chart success like the male rockers did, I can't think of anyone who pre-dates her as far as being a true rock& roll performer. Pioneers in rock should always get consideration. She should've been considered before another female I can think of, who didn't pioneer anything!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 09:05am


There will be a documentary aired about Wanda Jackson on Oct. 20th (her birthday) called "The Sweet Lady With The Nasty Voice", I'm assuming on PBS. It will have interviews with Elvis Costello, Springsteen, and Lemmy from Motorhead (that should be interesting!!!) among others. Sounds like a real treat, especially for those not familiar with her.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 09:57am


Let me just respond to the statement By LAX that I never heard any Genesis Albums. I have all of them. and have listened to them over and over again.

But I also have listened to The Moody Blues, Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, ELO, Foreigner, Journey, Emerson Lake and Palmer, Bad Company, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, KISS, Supertramp,Rush and Several other bands, Singer Songwriters, and Composers, musicians.

I have all of the albums by every one of those artists, Plus Stevie Ray, Hendrix, The Beatles, The Stones, and many more artists. I have all their albums.

And Believe Me Blood, Sweat and Tears has done more to benefit Rock Music than Genesis has.

I Love the songs man And I know what I am Talking about. I play in a club band and they don't even request Genesis.

But they do request Stevie, Deep Purple, Even Chicago and Blood Sweat, & Tears. So who really is relevent here. I Love the Songs of Genesis but you really are stretching to put them in before certain other bands, songwriters, singers and musicians.

So LAX just because Genesis is your favorite band don't think that they are more deserving than others. I Love Genesis and other bands as well.But that doesn't mean they are deserving of such an honor.

It should be reserved for Legends. The Rockhall is becoming more Cheesier by the year! Where are the Legends. Most of them are already in so maybe they need to slow down the process a little more and maybe take one to two deserving artists a year.

Posted by Stan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 11:58am


Gary and Stan...I just need to say this...if it were entirely up to me, the list of inductees would be a lot smaller. I think that an artist's contributions in innovation and influence should be absolutely LEGENDARY, beyond any shadow of a doubt!! After all, I don't think it was ever meant to be a popularity contest.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 12:13pm


To Gitarzan, all I can say to you is AMEN, You are right way too much fluff is in there already. Reserve the HOF for the truly Legendary artists of Rock And Roll.

Posted by Stan Crawford on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 17:32pm


Roy,

I had been so shocked at the choices of the nominating committee that I had never even thought of the possibility that they might reject Metallica (as they initially did with the Sex Pistols, Patti Smith and Black Sabbath) and keep on rejecting the Stooges and Chic.

It is really hard, though, to see them reject Run-DMC - indeed with so few artists newly eligible over the next three ballots looking likely, early rap groups the Sugarhill Gang, Kurtis Blow and the Treacherous Three may well get inducted before the key artists of the late 1980s rap revolution become eligible mostly in 2012/2013.

I do doubt, though, that the Stooges will fail to get in over the long term. If they don't, 1950s doo-wop groups that I as a man of 31 never read about like the Chantels, "5" Royales and Dominoes may dominate the next three induction ceremonies. What is good is that it seems the Hall may run out of doo-wop and 1960s/1970s black artists to induct before it gets a major crop of newly eligible probables in 2012/2013.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 17:49pm


Gitar/Stan/Gary -

Hear you guys talking about how there are too many "non legends" in the Hall. Gitar & I wandered briefly down this path on the Immortals section, and it turned into the Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart show (not a bad show at that, but hardly in keeping w/the line here). There are plenty of artists coming up who are legendary... for a different generation. Where does legendary status star and end? Does it end?

Ex. (of a sort) Zeppelin vs Sabbath: Neither band got respect during the 70's from mainstream publications, yet fans loved them. Later down the line, most 80's metal took inspiration from Zeppelin, and it forced a re-evaluation of the act. Sabbath, meanwhile, was still neglected to a degree. Come the 90's and Seattle causes a shift from Zep to Sab. Since the "official" (and I use that word lightly) rock history has given Alternative the nod over pop-metal, does this mean that Sab is more influential than Zep? Therefore, can I retroactively remove Zep from the Hall, since it's obvious their influence really wasn't as strong as we thought down the line? For that matter, can I remove the Yardbirds as well, since their lineage is now under attack (after all, Zep sprang from the Yardbirds)? Acts like Def Lep/Maiden/Preist/Metallica/Run D.M.C./Smiths now, and Cocteaus/J&MC/GNR/Nirvana/P. Jam/My Bloody Valentine/Radiohead, etc., are already cited by various modern acts as definitive influences. Or is the problem w/in the 25 year waiting period? Maybe that's actually too little time here. 35,45, mayvbe 50 yrs.? Who knows, amybe we can have a truly fresh re-evaluation of the Beatles & Stones, coming from a modern generation w/ no tangible connections whatsoever. Come to think of it, I might actually be all for this. Let's really see how they hold up in the eyes of the young,w/out any outside help, so to speak!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 18:18pm


See, I got so excited thinking about this that I misspelled half the words in that last post. GO BEETHOVEN!!! LUDWIG VAN FOR EMPEROR OF THE HALL!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 18:21pm


Stan, let me address your picks one by one. Sound good to you?

The Moody Blues: I am still suprised to learn that these artists have not been inducted. There were some well thought writers and interests that The Moddies had: Justin Hayward's love sonnets, John Lodge's edgier rock, Ray Thomas' impeccible story-songs, Patrick Moraz' electronic-centered experiments, and even Denny Laine's blues oriented period (the "Go Now" era) were amongst the high points of these veteran cosmic rockers. It is baffling why the Moody Blues continue to be overlooked; I do not seem to get why.

Chicago: as I mentioned before, Chicago is a favored band of both my parents. I, too, have a few albums and compilations of theirs, centering on the Terry Kath and Peter Cetera periods. Now, I know that Kath died 30 years ago, yet the rest of the crew still live on. They still have got it down pat live. They deserve induction, and I am certain it will happen within the next two years, at least. Who knows, Cetera may show up.

Blood, Sweat, and Tears: two great albums, a fine third and live album for good measure, and the band that gave us Al Kooper, Steve Katz, and Don Alias. But honestly, after Katz left sometime after the self-titled second album, the band began to lessen their impact. In fact, their producer, James William Guercio, became Chicago's producer: in a way, what BS&T innovated was transfered to Chicago once they started having hit songs. The obtuse linkage with the State Department tour of the early 1970s did not help matters, what with the Nixon agenda being given forth. Nonetheless, BS&T are well deserving, both the Kooper era and the Katz-jazz era.

Electric Light orchestra: well deserving, if only for their album "No Answer", the only ELO album that Roy Wood had a full involvement. After Wood left, ELO still had great songs and a very Beatles-esque approach to the craft. Hopefully, they have not been maligned still due to their pop sensibilities.

Foreigner: one of the better 70s acts that got better in the 80s. They should be inducted: yet, I do not know if they will be.

Journey: i agree with Steve in that Journey should be inducted. While I do have a differing opinion on their works after Steve Perry's departure, Journey were certainly one of the more consistently interesting and productive acts in their time.

Emerson, Lake and Palmer: By all means, the three should be inducted. Greg Lake, to note, was a rather interesting lyricist when it mattered. I will mention, though, that radio stations need to play the full "Karn Evil 9", not just the "Welcome back my friends..." bit. Interesting time signatures and electronic keyboard usage, to enhance their soundscapes.

Bad Company: I would induct Paul Rodgers, Boz Burrell, and/or Simon Kirke on their own accords. To induct Bad Company in and of itself does also include those albums that Rodgers and Burrell were not involved with. Those later albums stink. The Rodgers albums, on the flip side, were rather great.

Jethro Tull: the most important heavy folk artists do need to be inducted. I would even give the honors to Mick Abrahams and David (Dee) Palmer as well; they were rather important figures in the group during their time. Tull were one of the few acts in rock that made the flute seem important and impressive; Chicago, at times, were another, to note.

Deep Purple: just for being a band whose biggest hit namechecks Frank Zappa deserves induction. I will say, though, that I would limit the inducted alumni to five: the Mach II and "Perfect Strangers" era led by Ritchie Blackmore, Ian Gillan, Jon Lord, and Ian Paice. Now, if only we can convince Blackmore to strap on an electric guitar one more time, that would seal the deal for induction.

KISS: an induction of KISS should be given in some form. Likely the Performers category, though you could make a case for Non-Performance due to their massive marketing and merchandising credentials. If KISS are inducted, though, it may just be Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley getting the honors: the two will want it this way. As for the make-up, I do not know; it could go either way.

Supertramp: no. Supertramp were a lost opportunity that frankly could not gel in their group dynamics. I wil admit there were some high points: yet, Roger Hodgson wrote and sang many of those high points. They only had one great song in "Fool's Overture", and several okay songs along the way. It was not enough to make an impact.

Rush: it is continually dissapointing in the Hall of Fame snubbing their noses at Rush. Perhaps, as a response, the next Rush album should be called "This is Bullshit!" Maybe they could even mock Dave Marsh, who in all rights needs a damned good mocking.

Stevie Ray Vaughan: even though he died 18 years ago, SRV still merits an induction. I am rather saddened that the Hall of Fame has overlooked his legacy this time. Perhaps the next time out, SRV will be inducted, though posthumous.

Yet do you know who is more deserving than the aforetioned? Why yes, it is Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks; all three in their individual works. And Genesis in their collective works, alongside Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford in the classic lineup. The matter that your fans of the cover band you are in do not mention Genesis, or the five artists individually, does not mean that they are not relevant or deserving. When it is all added in, Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, Collins and Rutherford both individually and collectively, are the artists not in the Hall of Fame that are most deserving. And I am not saying this because I happen to be a fan of Genesis, and Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks. I am saying this because it is proven to be accurate in their influence and importance.

Thus, since we know a special acheivement category for lifetime works is in place, it is known that the classic lineup of Genesis (Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford) will be inducted both individually and collectively in the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 in that special acheivement category. Since we and many others outside of this board are in agreeance in their importance and greatness, the five as a collective and on their own at the same time will be inducted, in no small part due to us discussing their merits. Thus, I have answered the question, Casper, Philip, and Dameon. Even in lengthier writings, the answer is there. Genesis, Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, and even Collins and Rutherford will be inducted.

Child is father and wise sage to and for the man,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 18:50pm


To Cheesecrop!!!
Your points are much more valid than LAX and Genesis getting into the Hall. But in all honesty Zepp and Sabbath are legends in my book.

Also as a musician if Beethoven were alive today he would be the Originator, developer and First king of rock...

During his day he basically told Napoleon where to go when he said " You want me to write the French National Anthem, find your own National Song. I'm German!" He was basically daring Napoleon to go to war with Germany. If that isn't what music can do for people then I don't know what is!!! He was the Original Rocker in a time when music was one sided. He was a one world rocker!!! So your points are well taken, my man!!!!

Posted by Stan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 18:53pm


LAX, Genesis, I am sorry, but if that were the case then Eric Clapton would have been elected long before he was. They noted his work with Cream and the Yardbirds as well.

Individually the merits of the members of Genesis don't hold up, To Eric's body of work!!Well if that were the case and we were going to go on individual achievement. Then hell, I could name several others, John Fogerty, Graham Parsons, Sonny Boy Williamson, a million blues guitarists, David Crosby, Stephen Stills, Roger Waters, Ozzy Osborne,and Individuals from other bands Like Ringo Starr or Even Cher in the hall.

I mean this is kind of pointless don't you see. All those great bands I mentioned in the previous E.Mail are as much deserving than Genesis and I don't see them making it right away if they haven't already!!!

So Realize man that Genesis is another great band that is far from the legendary status-- Of the Beatles The Doors The Stones, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath etc.---Sorry man I don't think they are as deserving as you think.

Posted by Stan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 19:08pm


CC...I'm comfortable with you being truly aware of who the real legends are. Like me, you're not always fond of the artists who are deemed "legendary", but you would never take away from their accomplishments and contributions to R & R. I'm disturbed with artists like Percy Sledge, Madonna, etc... who have gotten in way before more deserving artists have been inducted, plus they've given me this permanent furrow between my eyes trying to figure out what they were thinking...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 19:40pm


It is funny how sure LAX is of this Genesis thing!!! 2009 Inducties have been announced in the performer catagory!!! That is exactly what genesis is and it is what each of there members are.

To give them special achievement awards is hilarious!!!!!

Also all the bands that I mentioned in a previous letter, you ran them down in your mind and all but one should make the hall.

Although I believe some belong before some bands already elected. I believe the rock hall is becoming more and more mediocre by lowering it's standards already, by including too many artists.

LAX,You say yes almost to everybody...Do you prefer mediocrity to legendary, I believe this is where you are headed with this Genesis thing.

Posted by Stan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 19:49pm


For those of you who aren't aware, Percy Sledge's story is a prime example of a biased induction.

1) He only had one real hit of note..."When A Man loves A Woman", other than that his career wasn't spectacular...a few other minor hits.
2) That single ended up being the first gold record for Atlantic Records.
3) Atlantic Records was founded by Ahmet & Nesuhi Ertegun.
4) The Ertegun brothers were founders of (and Ahmet chairman of) The ROCK & ROLL HALL OF FAME & MUSEUM!!
5) Both of the Ertegun brothers are also inducted.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 19:55pm


Chic? Chic???
Over Yes? The Cure? Rush? Kraftwerk? Sonic Youth? Genesis? all are far more deserving of at least consideration than Chic.

Posted by Ryan Gibbs on Saturday, 09.27.08 @ 21:28pm


"Thus, since we know a special acheivement category for lifetime works is in place,"--Lax


HUH?!! No, we DON'T know this. I have not heard THING ONE about a "special achievement category for lifetime works" being in place. I *AM* aware of the Lifetime Achievement category... they've inducted John Hammond, Nesuhi Ertegun, Mo Ostin, Jann S. Wenner (who despite his egotistical tyranny DOES deserve the induction he got), and I think Seymour Stein, Frank Barsalona, Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss as well; with the "Lifetime Achievement" recognition beyond merely being inducted in the Non-Performer category.

But here's the thing--ya paying attention?--they were all inducted as Non-Performers. The only one on that list who was a performer (with a lowercase "p") was Herb Alpert, but he was inducted with "Lifetime Achievement in the Non-Performer" category with partner Jerry Moss for their founding of A&M Records, not for being lead trumpet and backed by the Tijuana Brass. There has NEVER been a "special achievement category" for performers... unless you count the Performers category itself, and we know Genesis will not be getting that this year.

Now, maybe there'll be a Genesis exhibit at the actual museum in Cleveland, but do NOT confuse having an exhibit with being inducted. There wa a U2 exhibit before U2 was eligible. There is/was a Debbie Gibson exhibit, and she still isn't eligible for induction yet. Clearly not the same thing.

So unless you have actual information from outside sources (meaning you can actually find a press release or a magazine article, etc. that supports you), please stop saying "we know Genesis will be inducted." We do not know. I do not know this, Casper does not know, Gitarzan does not know... and you do not know.

I realize my tone is getting a bit more aggressive, but you're bringing absolutely nothing beyond mere speculation to the table here, REFUTED speculation at that, and it's starting to get a little tiresome.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 00:52am


Philip...someone needs to tell LAX that this isn't the Academy Awards! Part of what gets an artist into the HOF is "special achievement" and "lifetime works". Genesis doesn't fall into a catagory given to "non-performers", they'll need to get in like any other artist...and they're not among the finalists this year...period!!!! They're not, Chicago's not, Blood, Sweat, and Tears...nope!!! I like these artists too, and their snubbing is a bit questionable. But I'm not going to obsess over it!! The nominating committee has spoken, LAX, and now you're just talking plain crazy!! Please come to this website prepared to have a reasonable and rational conversation, give your opinions, and lay facts on the table when need be. As Jack Nicholson would say..."Don't talk crazy, we're all full around here!!!".

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 08:07am


Phillip, & Gitarzan-Thank You!!!!I Echo your sentiments!!!!

Posted by Stan on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 10:05am


My Hall of Fame would Start with these 25 LEGENDS,They are listed by the year they were actually Inducted
1.Chuck Berry 1986,2.Elvis Presley 1986, 3.Buddy Holly 1986, 4.Aretha Franklin 1987, 5.Marvin Gaye 1987,6.B.B. King 1987,7.Muddy Waters 1987, 8.Hank Williams 1987,9.Bob Dylan 1988, 10.The Beatles 1988,11.The Beach Boys 1988,12.The Rolling Stones 1989,13.Stevie Wonder 1989,14.The Who 1990, 15.Jimi Hendrix 1992, 16.Johnny Cash 1992,17.The Doors 1993,18.Elton John 1994, 19.Bob Marley 1994,20.Led Zeppelin 1995,21.The Eagles 1998, 22.Bruce Springsteen 1999, 23.Eric Clapton 2000, 24.AC-DC 2003, 25.U2

This is based on Body of Work, Live Show Performance, and Quality in my mind...

This is My personel List But you could Argue that Sam Cooke, James Brown, Grateful Dead, Black Sabbath, Billy Joel, Simon & Garfunkel and many more belong on the top twenty five LEGENDS Let Me Ask you LAX Where does Genesis fit in!!!
A Great Band that has failed to achieve Legendary Status
That is where they fit in!!!!!!!

Posted by Stan on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 10:38am


Well, I have given this some thought.

First of all, Stan's posting of 25 Legends fits accordingly with mine. For me, the Beatles and the entire works of John Lennon, Sir Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Ringo Starr are number one in my book. Sorry to say that I have not heard much of Stuart Sutcliffe's life work or even what Pete Best is doing, though it may not matter.

i will say, though, that I am not that huge of a Doors fan; not certain why. Elvis Presley was a hero to many but, to borrow from Chuck D, he never meant dick to me. Also, I do not put Bruce Springsteen as that much of a big lead. Springsteen is certainly in my top 30 or so.

So, those three I would substitute for, in no particular order, Peter Gabriel at least, if not the full Genesis catalogue to which I would even include the solo works of Steve Hackett and Tony Banks; Pink Floyd, along with Roger Waters on his own; and Fleetwood Mac, perhaps even including some outside works from Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham and Christine Mcvie.

As I said, Springsteen would fill up a top 30 on my list. So too would James Brown, Tina Turner, The Police and/or Sting, and Neil Young. So, exceptioning my lack of enthusiasm for Elvis and the Doors, we are pretty much in agreement overall.

Now, I do not have concrete proof of Peter Gabriel along with the classic lineup of Genesis being inducted for both the group and their own works in a special lifetime acheivement induction. What I do have is an educated inference, due to my lobbying for this consideration in my letters e-mailed to Jann Wenner. In that form alone, it has brought attention and knowledge of the merits presented. I am certain that I have not been alone in my lobbying on their behalf; the fan base in all categories is rather vast.

I do also have a belief in this eventual induction of Genesis/Gabriel/Hackett/Banks in one form or an other. For example, we talk and discussed their merits and their acheivements often, the process of induction will happen. Now, I am aware that some may be thinking that I am using "The Secret" to have the induction occur. Let me first say that "The Secret" itself has been known well prior to the publishing of that book; I have read graphic novels, for instance, that pondered over this law of attrition. Second, I have taken the liberty to have the Hall of Fame Foundation Nominating Committee be aware of these lobbying efforts on behalf of Peter Gabriel, if not all of Genesis' classic lineup. Thus, beliefs and, yes faith in the eventuality to come, have turned into action and writings to make others aware. Now then, we cannot all be certain, including myself, that a special acheivement induction of the classic line up of Genesis (which may even include the solo works of Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford for the sake of completion) will take for the Hall of Fame Class of 2009. We cannot be certain if Gabriel, or Genesis, may be put on the Performers ballot either in the near future. However, I, at my vantage, have an educated inference and a belief in this occuring.

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 18:22pm


LAX- It is great that you are such a fan of Peter Gabriel and Genesis, But did you know I have friends who are doing the exact same thing for Neil Diamond, and the Moody Blues and guess what Bill O' Reily of the Fox news station is doing the Same thing for the Monkees.

My friends have been have been writing Jann Wenner and many Rock Publications for support of Neil and the Moodies. They still are not in!!!!!You can continue to dream and maybe one day Genesis and or Peter Gabriel might get in!!!! But probably and hopefully not before Neil and the Moody Blues!!!

I just don't see it happening to any of them this year or anytime in the near future especially with the Rockhall snubbing Stevie Ray Vaughan

Posted by Stan on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 18:43pm


Lax and Stan:

I agree with both of your "25 legends" list although on my personal list, Pink Floyd would be fairly high up and I would add Creedence Clearwater Revival, The Who and The Animals to my list

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 18:47pm


I'll add that I would also include Cream

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 18:48pm


Keebord--No Problem with me hear adding those bands to the list says something--- The Legends have really been in for quite awhile now and the real LEGENDS are interchangeable you can't argue your choices, because they have all been in the Hall for years. The last few years the Rock hall has become more of a mediocrity. On my list U2 was the latest in entry!!! Both on your list and LAX other than him choosing Peter Gabriel and Genesis who have not been nominated, the latest Legend was 2004, That means the Rockhall has been settling for mediocrity for the last five years. I hope they take a hint from this discussion and leave the entry to true LEGENDS

Posted by Stan on Sunday, 09.28.08 @ 19:45pm


Okay, I'm taking over the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame outright. I'm the new president and these acts get automatic induction!:

2010

50s-60s FOLK & Surf Rock

Joan Baez
Judy Collins
Peter, Paul & Mary
The Kingston Trio
Buffy Saint-Marie
Phil Ochs
Laura Nyro
Melanie
The Surfaris
Jan and Dean
Dick Dale

2011

50s-60s POP

Frank Sinatra
Harry Belafonte
Chubby Checker
The Big Bopper
The Monkees
Herman's Hermits
The Hollies
The Turtles
The Troggs
The Kingsman

2012

60s-70 Jazz-Rock-R&B Fusion

Chicago
Blood, Sweat & Tears
Kool & The Gang
The Commodores
Electric Flag
Tower of Power
Ten Wheel Drive
Ten Years After

2013

60s-70s Prog Rock

Yes
Rush
Genesis
Jethro Tull
Deep Purple
Emerson, Lake and Palmer

2014

70s-80s Pop Rock

KISS
Heart
The Cars
Cheap Trick
Alice Cooper
Hall & Oates
Todd Rundgren
Doobie Brothers
Bernie Taupin

Posted by Roy on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 05:01am




Okay, I'm taking over the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame outright. I'm the new president and these acts get automatic induction!:

2010

50s-60s FOLK & Surf Rock

Joan Baez
Judy Collins
Peter, Paul & Mary
The Kingston Trio
Buffy Saint-Marie
Phil Ochs
Laura Nyro
Melanie
The Surfaris
Jan and Dean
Dick Dale

2011

50s-60s POP

Frank Sinatra
Harry Belafonte
Chubby Checker
The Big Bopper
The Monkees
Herman's Hermits
The Hollies
The Turtles
The Troggs
The Kingsman

2012

60s-70 Jazz-Rock-R&B Fusion

Chicago
Blood, Sweat & Tears
Kool & The Gang
The Commodores
Electric Flag
Tower of Power
Ten Wheel Drive
Ten Years After

2013

60s-70s Prog Rock

Yes
Rush
Genesis
Jethro Tull
Deep Purple
Emerson, Lake and Palmer

2014

70s-80s Pop Rock

KISS
Heart
The Cars
Cheap Trick
Alice Cooper
Hall & Oates
Todd Rundgren
Doobie Brothers
Bernie Taupin

Posted by Roy on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 05:01am
Leave your comm


Some great choices ...Buffy was one that has been over looked for years!!!

As many know the Surfaris should of been in years ago!!! Also Dick Dale , Way before the Ventures.
Peter Paul and Mary, Kingston Trio and the Kingsmen Also years ago!!!




Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 07:18am


Now I am president of the Rock Hall of Fame---Tear it Down and Start over---
Reserve it Straight For LEGENDS
First Three Inductions
The Beatles
Bob Dylan
Chuck Berry

One a year From This Point On Reserving Only for Artists Of Legendary Status

Posted by Stan on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 07:35am


OK - I'll play. I am now the President. I declare the Hall of Fame dead and buried.

Rock and Roll is not supposed to have a Hall of Fame. Remember us, the youth of America. We didn't need labels and signs.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 08:15am


Melanie
Posted by mrxyz

I agree with "most" of your choices but Melanie?
Who the hell did Melanie influence or cites her in anyway as an important artist in general...

Posted by Gary James CA on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 08:56am


Let me add a few more things:

Melanie was and still is one of the better folk-pop artists to come from the United Kingdom. There is an effervesance and wistfulness in her voicing and writing styles.

Having said that, while Melanie certainly is deserving of an induction, I can think of a few others: Richard Thompson, Linda Thompson, Sandy Denny (posthumous), Simon Nicol, Judy Dyble, Iain Matthews. Interestingly, those I mentioned were involved are are still in an group named Fairport Convention. Both the band and the artists in solo ventures have been rather influential in British Folk-Rock and songwriting approaches. Yet, it is more of a cult following in the States. Nevertheless, either as solo artists or as a group, these listed folk artists need to be inducted.

Roy, I disagree with your choices on Chubby checker, Ten Years After, Electric Flag as a group (I would induct Michael Bloomfield on his own posthumously), and I have deep reservations regarding The Safaris, Tower of Power, Kool and the Gang, and disagree regarding J.P. Richardson a.k.a The Big Bopper. As well, i would induct Michael Mcdonald as opposed to the Doobie Brothers, Al Kooper and/or Steve Katz as opposed to Blood, Sweat, and Tears; Mick Abrahams and/or David "Dee" Palmer rather than Jethro tull, and Terry Kath and Peter Cetera as opposed to Chicago. These ideals remark on the main influential figures of these groups at the time.

In addition, I would not consider inducting the Commodores: rather, I would induct Lionel Richie. Heck, Richie has compiled and performed many Commodore songs on his own; thereby making no difference in the regard.

And Roy, regarding The Kingsmen: not only no, but hell no! They had only one hit, and that one hit was indeciperable. To this day, not only do I not understand "Louie Louie", but I detest it immensely. Frankly, when left with the source material, the Beach Boys made a more coherent reading. And besides, Frank Zappa reworked it better with "Plastic People". The Kingsmen did nothing to advance the field of rock; unless making lyrics and recordings painful to the ears is an accomplishment.

Going back to a previous post, I prefer inducting Paul Rodgers and/or Free as opposed to inducting Bad Company as a group: the non-Rodgers material was rather juvenile. I suppose if Journey were to ever be inducted in some way, it could in theory just be an induction for Steve Perry. As well, I do have reservations regarding Foreigner; muck like The Safaris, Kool and the Gang and Tower of Power, no individuality stood out. And my preference for an ELO induction is to induct Roy Wood, either himself or The Move.

Nonetheless, while the remaining potential inductees list is valid and deserving, I would prefer not to induct them in the format in theory.

Now, Stan, while I too am anxious to see the Moody Blues inducted, along with Neil Diamond, I would not put them in before Pater Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford as themselves and as the classic lineup of Genesis. The five listed artists were simply more impactful and interesting in their work, to say nothing of likely being more influential. Now, again I am including Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford on their own accords to complete the Genesis tree at once, and because it seems reasonable and fair.

Regarding the Monkees, I would gladly support an induction of them; their later work was quite interesting and more original, so to speak. As well, they did use the film and television media to enahnce their careers and palette of soundscapes. Bear in mind, though, that I am not a fan of Bill O'Reilly, and cannot fathom him liking The Monkees. Yet, my rant on O'Reilly is neither here nor there.

Before I go, I am of the certainty due to dilligence and continued lobbying that the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 will include a special acheivement induction of lifetime work; and that the inductees for the first in what will be a series of similar inductions will be the classic lineup of Genesis both individually and collectively: emphasing the group works and individually Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks. Others may be doubtful, yet I and others are rather confident of this induction taking place. As well, I would like to see others' opinions on the Fairport Convention artists I have mentioned.

Looks like we made it once again,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 18:14pm


Melanie was and still is one of the better folk-pop artists to come from the United Kingdom.
Posted by Lax25

To each his own but...
She was born in Astoria Queens,NY.
She's not a U.K. singer.

Posted by Gary James CA on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 19:07pm


Your angst for Genesis is commendable but they will not get a special induction for there body of work---They are a bunch of musicians just like everybody ever elected to the rock and roll hall of fame in the performer catagory--

They are not record company execs, talent scouts, or Managers.They are not journalists, or PR people. They may have produced a few albums but these days who hasn't in the music business.

The kind of award you are looking at will not happen. One day they could get in by being performers of the craft of music!!!!That's It--

No special induction, No lifetime achievement award. No nobel peace prize or pulitzer. Shoot not even an academy award for supporting cast. They will make it as a band or they won't,Solo Peter Gabriel has a chance too. But also no special awards.

Posted by Stan on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 20:02pm


I would induct Michael Bloomfield on his own posthumously Posted by Lax25

Right on!
Big Mike Bloomfield fan.

Posted by Gary James CA on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 20:36pm


And Roy, regarding The Kingsmen: not only no, but hell no! They had only one hit, and that one hit was indeciperable.Posted by Lax25

Sure they only had the one hit,and you may not like it *but* tons of musicians learned "that" basic riff via them and emulated their good time party sound.
Many have recorded the song as well(although The Kingsmen didn't write it).
Everyone from Iggy Pop - Black Flag covered it.
There's an ENTIRE book devoted to the song-
"Louie Louie: The History and Mythology of the World's Most Famous Rock 'n' Roll Song" by Dave Marsh.

Surely a very influential song in the scheme of things imo.

Posted by Gary James CA on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 21:24pm


What kind of a committee nominates War instead of Love??
Posted by joker on Monday, 09.22.08

I like War,own their albums but i'm not so sure their RRHOF worthy considering who has yet to get in i.e. "Love" an ALL time fave.

Posted by Gary James CA on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 21:34pm


Who the heck is LOVE?

Posted by huh? on Monday, 09.29.08 @ 23:59pm


War: An unfathomable, and unconscionable, pick. In a year of weak nominees, this is easily the weakest. What is it, like a token ethnic pick?
Posted by MBI on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 11:16am

Wow, what a racist loser thing to say!

Of all the artists to be inducted to the RRHOF, WAR is a most deserving and way overdue nominee. They have been around for 40 years influencing different genres of music artists with their mix of rock,soul,blues,jazz,funk, basically a WAR sound. Their music is in countless movies and commercials and has been sampled by many artists. WAR's song "Why Can't We Be Friends" was played in space when NASA beamed it to the linking of Soviet Cosmonots and U.S astronauts in 1975. For your info MBI, the original WAR band actually has (god forbid to you) a white guy, the most bad ass harmonica player on earth, Mr. Lee Oskar, so there goes your "token ethnic pick" theory.

WAR was the last band to jam with Jimi Hendrix the night before he died.

Like I said in an earlier post, even if you're not a WAR fan I can definitely guarantee you know or have heard a WAR song, unless you have been under a rock for 40 years or were born yesterday, and that's still no excuse.

Here is a list of some of WAR's hits and I dare anyone to say that they haven't heard even one.

"Why Can't We Be Friends" (dedicated to MBI)-not
"Lowrider" (George Lopez theme song)
"Spill The Wine" w/Eric Burdon
"All Day Music"
"Summer"
"The World Is A Ghetto"
"Cisco Kid"
"Slippin" Into Darkness"
"Cinco De Mayo"
"They Can't Take Away Our Music" w/Eric Burdon
"Galaxy" (heard and saw Ellen Degeneres dancing to this one a few month's back).
etc., etc.......

I hope the original members of WAR get their way past due recognition and get inducted.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by Lowrider Band Fan on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 01:19am


Who the heck is LOVE?
Posted by huh? on Monday

As much as i hate Rolling Stone and TRRHOF they're "very aware" of who "Love" is.
Hopefully (i think they will at some point) get in.
Check em out,you might just like them.

Posted by Gary James CA on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 08:27am


These four bands have sold tons of records/CDs, have had long, successful careers, have made great, innovative music, and inspired a generation of musicians. Ask yourself if the same can be said about War, The Stooges, or (God forbid) Chic?? Unbelievable.

Posted by Rob T on Tuesday, 09.23.08 @ 13:13pm


I asked myself this question about WAR and the answer was YES!!

Posted by Lowrider Band Fan on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 17:12pm


If the nominating committee actually followed their stated criteria, and nominated "those that innovate music," then artists like Stevie Ray Vaughan would not have been left off this year's list. Jon Landau and his nominating committee can not on one hand "ignore" Stevie Ray Vaughan for integrating blues into rock to invent his "Rocker Blues" sound, while nominating "The Beastie Boys" and "Run DMC" for integrating Rap into Rock! Unless they want to use hypocrisy or self-interests instead of those that contributed and innovated rock music. If the committee members truly think Chic, Afrika Bambaataa, The Ventures, Run DMC and The Beastie Boys are more deserving than Stevie Ray Vaughan, then they are basing their choices on non-musical and non-stated criteria of "innovating music," since none of the existing nominees did more to innovate music than Stevie Ray Vaughan by inventing rocker blues with his edgy rocker style. I know of no more deserving a nominee than SRV and no more glaring an error by the nominating committee than to leave him off of this list for two years in a row. Without SRV even being nominated, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame has no credibility at all!!!

Posted by Jon Goldman on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 17:32pm


Who the heck is LOVE?
Posted by huh? on Monday

Also,"Love" was the first rock band signed to Elektra records.
The Doors were very influneced (by their own admission) by them.
Arthur Lee pressured Elektra to sign The Doors,which of course the did.
Leader Arthur Lee has been described as "the first black hippie" predating Hendrix (his close friend)and Sly Stone.

Love was the first "rock" band to have an entire side of an album devoted to one song.
Album: "Da Capo"
Song: "Revelation"

Their influence can be heard in many of their peers onward to the present.

Posted by Gary James CA on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 18:07pm


Goldman, I am a big SRV fan. He was great. But you vastly overstate his innovation. He "invented" blues rock? Ever listened to the Allman Brothers Band? 70's-era ZZ Top? etc.etc.etc. SRV was awesome and he was one of the ones responsible for revitalizing the blues in the 80's. Innovative? Not so much.

Posted by Dezmond on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 18:22pm


Let me explain my Peter Gabriel/Genesis induction process:

The special acheivement induction for lifetime works involves honoring artists that had both importance as individual artists, and as a group with these same artists. The qualifications for this induction involves having not only the band as it is being eligible; it also has to have the individual members be eligible for their own solo works, provided that it was of importance, and that more than one of the members had individual significance. By this measure, the band and its individual artists in their solo works of consequence are inducted outright and at once.

Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis as a band would fit this special acheivement induction. To induct the full classic lineup both collectively and individually, Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford in their solo ventures would be inducted as well if so chosen. It is my inference and projection that Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and the full catalogue of Genesis will be inducted in this format into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009, at the very least: this might also include solo Phil Collins and solo Mike Rutherford to complete the tree.

In the time ahead, other bands and individual artists that would fit into this special acheivement induction can and likely will include as both a group and as their own works: Roxy Music, Yes, King Crimson, Fairport Convention, Deep Purple, Television, Weather Report, N.W.A, etc.

To follow up, it is rather upsetting still that Stevie Ray Vaughan was not seriously considered for induction, though posthumous. Perhaps if the finalist list was increased by 1, SRV and his life works would be considered. With respect to War; I like the band, yet nothing stood out. That is to say, quite a number of hit songs and a wide influence, yet no individuality was given. and to those that give notice that Eric Burdon helped make War what it is: Burdon, frankly, did not make the Animals what they were. On his own, Eric Burdon is subpar. Yet, I would be pleased if War were to be inducted; they are just not on the top of my list.

Not giving an inch for "Louie Louie" Mr. Marsh and others,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 18:38pm


LAX, Your arguement in favor of Genesis making the rock and roll hall of fame for a and I Quote you "special acheivement induction for lifetime works involves honoring artists that had both importance as individual artists, and as a group with these same artists" just does not hold water.

First of all let me say this.Genesis is a great band that has failed like many others to make LEGENDARY STATUS. EXAMPLES Let's Compare

Number One:Peter Gabriel to LEGENDS Like John Lennon, and Paul McCartney, who do you choose- I hope Lennon & McCartney.

Number Two: Genesis as a whole to the LEGENDS Like the Beatles who do you choose--I hope you choose the Beatles

Number Three: Peter Gabriel to LEGENDS Like Eric Clapton I hope you choose Eric Clapton

Number Four: Genesis as a whole to the LEGENDS of Cream and the Yardbirds, I hope you choose Cream and the Yardbirds

Number Five: Peter Gabriel to LEGENDS like Neil Young, I hope you choose Neil Young

Number Six: Genesis as a whole to the LEGENDS of The Byrds, Crosby Stills Nash & Young, Buffalo Springfield,
I would hope you choose the Byrds, Buffalo Springfield, CSN&Y

Number Seven: Peter Gabriel to LEGEND like Paul Simon I would hope you choose Paul Simon

Number Eight: Any two Members of Genesis to LEGENDS Like Simon & Garfunkel I Would hope you choose Simon & Garfunkel

Number Nine: Peter Gabriel to LEGEND George Harrison I would hope you would pick George Harrison

Number Ten: Keep in Mind that Many bands had great individual components that made them great. The bands were elected but the individuals have not been; Examples:

The LEGENDS The Eagles Elected as a group as a whole but Don Henley, Glenn Frey, Joe Walsh, Timothy B Schmidt have not

The LEGENDS Creedence Clearwater Revival Elected as a group as a whole but John Fogerty has not

The LEGENDS Pink Floyd has been Elected as a group as a whole but Roger Waters and David Gilmour have not

The LEGENDS The Beach Boys have been Elected as a group as a whole but Brian Wilson has not

The LEGENDS The Supremes have been Elected as a group as a whole but Diana Ross has not

The LEGENDS The Rolling Stones have been elected as a group as a whole but Mick Jaggar and Keith Richards have not

The LEGENDS The Who have been Elected as a group as a whole but Pete Townsend has not.

You can run through the examples and who has done what and who has not and I will tell you right now Genesis and the whole crew do not measure up to anybody in the above mentioned. As I will continue to say Genesis is a great band that has failed to make LEGENDARY STATUS.

So LAX continue to try but it ain't going to happen


Posted by Stan on Tuesday, 09.30.08 @ 20:41pm


Stan,

As much as I believe the somewhat delusional thinking of Lax holds no water. I also don't think that making the type of comparrisons that you have made hold any either.

Lax's theory will fall apart at the seams because there is no reason for the Hall to change now just for Genesis. Why would they? There is nothing to be gained and no money to be made.
-------------------------------------------------
Paul McCartney certainly did not warrant induction as a solo artist. And as a solo artist, I think the career of Peter Gabriel is far more important than Sir Paul and the late George's solo careers.

We cannot continually hold up one artist to the next in measuring importance except when showing direct influence from one to another. An artists merits the HoF based on specific induction criteria. Genesis will get in one day; but not just yet. I say 2015.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 05:20am


Goldman, I am a big SRV fan. He was great. But you vastly overstate his innovation. He "invented" blues rock?.
Posted by Dezmond

Agreed,and please keep in consideration i'm a big SRV fan.
But that comment is "far reaching".

In no particular order,these players/acts all predated SRV by many years.

Johnny Winter
Mike Bloomfield
Danny Kalb
Jeff Beck/The Yardbirds
Eric Clapton/Cream
Savoy Brown
Peter Green/Fleetwood Mac

Posted by Gary James CA on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 11:30am


I guess when you "really" think about it Muddy Waters,Howlin Wolf with Hubert Sumlin really created the genre once they plugged in.

Posted by Gary James CA on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 11:32am


I would like to say on behalf of War that I could at least recognize a War song even if I'd never heard it before. They have their own distinct identity. That's a large portion of why I opposed the Dave Clark Five choice -- they had plenty of hits but I couldn't tell them apart from the Searchers, the Hollies, etc.

And it's not that I think War was a bad band. I've liked everything I've heard from them.

But there's a much bigger criterion that I think trumps questions like "Can I recognize them?" or "Are they good?": "Do they matter?" That's what I think the Hall of Fame is for, to answer that question. I honestly don't think that War matters, certainly not when compared to contemporaries like Santana or Sly and the Family Stone, and especially not compared to better artists on the nomination list.

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 12:18pm


"The special acheivement induction for lifetime works involves honoring artists that had both importance as individual artists, and as a group with these same artists. The qualifications for this induction involves having not only the band as it is being eligible; it also has to have the individual members be eligible for their own solo works, provided that it was of importance, and that more than one of the members had individual significance. By this measure, the band and its individual artists in their solo works of consequence are inducted outright and at once."--Lax.

This category, as you define it here, does not exist. End of story.

"I would like to say on behalf of War that I could at least recognize a War song even if I'd never heard it before. They have their own distinct identity. That's a large portion of why I opposed the Dave Clark Five choice -- they had plenty of hits but I couldn't tell them apart from the Searchers, the Hollies, etc."--MBI

This simply tells me that you haven't spent enough time listening to their music. I can easily tell the difference between these three. The DC5 is percussion heavy, little on guitar solos, and does not have a Merseybeat sound to it. The vocals of Mike Smith sound like their screaming, but amazingly stay in key very well.

The Searchers have very jangly sounding guitars and their music is very Merseybeat. Little vocal harmony, and lead singer sounds like he is double-tracked.

The Hollies are guitar-driven to a degree, not quite as jangly, though. Not really Merseybeat, but not heavily percussive (though they do make a bit of usage of cymbals). Also, quite a bit of vocal harmony on their songs. Of these three, their songs generally have the fastest tempos and just have a feeling that they keep moving.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 13:31pm


It's always more interesting to see who was left off the list of nominees than to see who who made the final cut of candidates.

The J. Geils Band
Squeeze
Graham Parker
Don Covay
Joe Tex
Procol Harum

The above performers would have made worthy inductees for the Class Of 2009, but none of them were nominated, due to the timid, mainsttream tastes of the nominating committee. -DKO.

Posted by Dennis on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 18:04pm


Philip, the category that I have mentioned regarding special acheivement has not been positioned yet. Emphasis on yet.

Considering that the Hall of Fame Foundation Nominating Committee, and other like-minded institutions, can and will change the processes of inductions when so pleased akin to Calvinball (TM Bill Waterson), it seems reasonable to conclude that a category for special acheivement will exist. And I have inferred and proposed that the Class of 2009 will begin the special acheivement process of induction, starting with Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and the full works of Genesis being inducted; along with possibly the solo works of Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford.

Really guys, is it not feasable to a good deal of people that this inference and downright probable outlet not be considered, just because it is not mentioned by the Hall of Fame as of now? I mean, Rock music is populist and egalitarian at once; there should not be just one writer (cough"Dave Marsh"cough) making these decisions for us all.

You can at least be and think positive on these measurements. It will hapen in time, you realize. The category will occur, starting for the Class of 2009, with the classic lineup of Genesis inducted, along with Gabriel, Hackett, and Banks' own works at the least. Others will follow that path. It could be thought of as delusional; I would not disagree. Yet, a delusional thought can still hold water. By the way, blah-blah-blah, there are gains to be had and money to be made for this induction process.

Stan, I will put your mentioned legends for the most part as more influential than Peter Gabriel; I do take exception to Creedence Clearwater Revival; fine works, yet never have I been that much of a fan. Plus, John Fogerty outside of CCR is not all that much great, in my opinion.

To note, I see opportunity and a likeliness of an enriched Hall of Fame with the eventual Genesis/Peter Gabriel/Steve Hackett/Tony Banks induction in the special acheivement category, along with the newer process of inducting newer members in that format. Please, do not let your pessimism outgrow the optimism presented. If these are artists we all agree we respect and have an admiration for, then they should and will be in the Hall of Fame.

Old man Down the Road did lift Run Through the Jungle,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 18:44pm


"Old man Down the Road did lift Run Through the Jungle"- LAX25

As the judge said..."you can't plagiarize yourself".

John Fogerty WAS CCR!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 10.1.08 @ 19:00pm



This is a wonderful tribute by the great Rick Wakeman, to the first rock music station audible in the British Isles, Radio Caroline, an offshore "pirate" who started in 1964. At its peak the station had 22 million listeners.

It revolutionized British society and inspired an entire generation of rock artists from Europe.

Please help preserve the heritage.

http://digg.com/music/Rick_Wakeman_Ross_Revenge_Radio_Caroline_s_last_ship/share

Posted by Charles F. Radley on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 06:43am


gayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy all of you ha

Posted by ted on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 07:36am


My examples were meant to open some eyes, First of all let me say sometimes we don't know what the people at the rock hall think. It least I don't.

But they do seem to be fairly consistent agree or disagree. Unfortunatly being consistently short sided the last five to eight years has not helped them.

To hold back certain nominations Like Stevie Ray Vaughan and but bands Like Dave Clark Five and War in before them seems truly delusional to me.

Also to Blah,Blah I could agree that Paul McCartney and George Harrison there careers kind of fall short of legendary status. But again what else was available to be nominated at that time.. This is why I feel that there are way too many artists in the hall.

Unfortunatly LAX John Fogerty although not in by namesake he was Creedence and he is in regardless. His solo work is just as good as the Creedence work in my opinion but as was stated earlier Gitarzan " as the judge said You can't plagarize yourself"

So the bottom line still is, this Genesis is a great band that has failed to make legendary status at this time.

It does make me wonder why the rock hall of fame considers groups like the Dave Clark Five and War legendary...

Unfortunatly they do and in my opinion are wrong especially when leaving a bonafide future LEGEND like Stevie Ray Vaughan off.

Posted by Stan on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 08:25am


"Really guys, is it not feasable to a good deal of people that this inference and downright probable outlet not be considered, just because it is not mentioned by the Hall of Fame as of now?"

I would say it is not feasable. They induct groups and solo artists from those groups separately. Again, the Beatles as a group and three of the four in separately. The Yardbirds, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton solo, and now possibly Jeff Beck solo... a lot of bleedover there. Crosby, Stills, And Nash along with Neil Young solo, the Byrds, and Buffalo Springfield... again, lotsa bleedover there. The Jackson 5 and Michael Jackson as a soloist; the Impressions and Curtis Mayfield as a soloist. The Drifters and Clyde McPhatter soloist (and Ben E. King was nominated thrice, but never inducted as a soloist). They've had plenty of chances to institute this special category you want. It hasn't happened yet, and I really don't think it'll happen for Genesis. Just won't. Possible? Yes. Likely? Not even close.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 16:25pm


So, we are in agreeance of the possibility at least for Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony banks, and Genesis to be inducted in this special acheivement format, I trust. Thus, even if coming out of left-field, this induction will in all possibility take place in the Class of 2009. With this occuring, all important branches of the tree of Genesis (if not all branches including solo Phil Collins and solo Mike Rutherford) will be inducted at once, without having to induct the artist twice; one for a group, and one for his/her individual works.

By the by, CCR greatness, in my opinion, did not emphasise with John Fogerty. Rather, I think, what made CCR great was Tom Fogerty, John's older brother and rhythm/lead (at times) guitarist and backing vocalist. Tom was notably proficient on acoustic guitar, providing the intricate strumming in their more measured songs.

Here is something to ponder: why is it that CCR post-Tom Fogerty is not heard or mentioned on te radio and other media? And another pondering: if John Fogerty did not plagirize himself, could it be said that "Old man Down the Road" was a case of an artist running out of ideas?

Ted's comment was a non sequitor,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 18:36pm


First of all, I can't think of any of CCR's songs that had any sort of background vocals. John Fogerty was the "frontman" of that group in every sense of the word...guitar and vocals. All of those legendary riffs were performed by John. "Old Man Down The Road" sounds the way it does because that's his style...the lyrics are totally unique. Why should he change his style? That song is a glaring example of fact that John Fogerty WAS CCR. No John Fogerty...no CCR, no way!!

You give the other members of that group way too much credit. They provided the backbeat, and that's about it...including Tom Fogerty.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 18:53pm


Depeche Mode must be inducted. Groundbreaking, innovators of New Wave, Industrial, Goth, Alternative, Electronic, Pop, Rock and on....

Posted by DM12 on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 19:02pm


LAX- Anything is possible,but nothing is probable when it comes to the ROCK HALL----

Leaving Stevie Ray Vaughan off on a first ballad of eligability, Is a prime example of the above statement "Anything is possible,but nothing is probable when it comes to the ROCK HALL"----

and as much as your premise for Genesis to be elected individually as well as a group in a special catagory could be put also into this catagory of "Anything is possible,but nothing is probable when it comes to the ROCK HALL"

Let me just say what I beleieve and I think many others may think the same way---

"Genesis is a great band that like so many others has failed to make LEGENDARY STATUS" Until they are in this is the way it is.

Even you with your one sided love affair with Genesis would agree with that.

As for CCR Tom Fogerty Stu Cooke and Doug Clifford made up a great Rhythm section. John Fogerty did all the writing for Creedence until there last album Mardi Gras when Tom Fogerty Left the band. Stu Cooke and Doug Clifford contributed there only songs one each in the CCR catalog.

As for vocals John Fogerty was the only one behind the microphone and on all recordings when you hear more than one voice. You hear John Fogerty harmonizing with himself or doubling himself on the root note or melody.

No other member of Creedence sang except on the final album. Stu Cooke and Doug Clifford sang one song each on that album and that is the extent of vocal performances by CCR.

Tom Fogerty provided great Rhythmic tracks for John's blistering lead riffs.John was and is the man when it comes to CCR

Posted by Stan on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 22:37pm


Jeez, it took Lynyrd Skynyrd like ten years to get inducted, and people are complaining about Stevie Ray Vaughn not being inducted on his first year of eligibility? Patience, geez. Meanwhile, Alice Cooper's still not in after fourteen; that's when you start getting impatient.

Posted by MBI on Thursday, 10.2.08 @ 22:56pm


MBI,

This comment is filled with logic and sense. I fear some here may not understand that. Well said.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 05:13am


As for no one except J. Forgarty singing on CCR songs (except for last album), that may be true on the recordings they released.

However, I remember them having a variety show in the early 70s & they sang alot of their famous songs on the show & I'm pretty sure I remember other members of the band harmonizing on some of the songs (as they had to in the 'live' format they were playing them in).

Gitarzan, do you remember anything like what I'm saying?

Posted by Paul in KY on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 05:24am


CCR played on many shows, they played the Midnight Special, they played Ed Sullivan, the Johnny Cash Show, Flip Wilson,they also played Woodstock.

John Fogerty was the only singer. Also alot during that time, Recordings were used more or less in a canned version of songs to use the fade out as the stage lights dimmed.

Many songs were canned because of what the Doors did on Ed Sullivan for sensership reasons.Thus nobody sang in Rock bands after that on some of those variety shows.

CCR played at Woodstock and John Fogerty is the only one singing.

Posted by Stan on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 08:04am


Stan, thank you for your thoughts, re CCR. I specifically mentioned watching them sing on their variety show. I could swear I saw other members of the band singing on some of the choruses (which in the released recordings was probably J. Fogarty singing on multiple tracks).

Probably should be some video of the performances I'm talking about.

I certainly could be wrong here, its been almost 38 years.

Posted by Paul in KY on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 12:19pm


I seem to understand your definition of legendary status; yet I disagree with your conclusion.

At the least, from what I have gathered, Peter Gabriel has already acheived lehendary status. So too, in another matter, did Stevie Ray Vaughan at the time of his passing. I would opine that Genesis as a group might have on the full extant gained legendary status, as would Steve Hackett and Tony Banks on their own accords. When adding all four of these branches together (Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, and Genesis), then I and others would conclude that legendary status has been acheived.

So, in that regard, since it is known by us all that SRV left behind a huge influence and legacy, it is necessary that, though SRV died in 1990, the full body of works that Stevie Ray Vaughan did in his life needs to be inducted. As well, since when taken all together, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis the group itself (maybe even Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford on their own)have garnered influence and a legacy; the time needs to come for theese artists to be inducted. The proposed and quite possible special acheivement induction category for the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 (and beyond) provides the ability to induct the group and the individual works of said group (namely Gabriel, Hackett, and Banks) at once. You may disagree; yet I do beleive this will happen.

Regarding our discussions of Creedence Clearwater Revival and the Brothers Fogerty, we are in agreement that John held the reigns over time. Yet, at certain times, band frontmen are not entirely the innovative figures in an act. Or, there may be two or more heads, yet only one in retrospect made notice.

in the idea of CCR, it was Tom Fogerty (1941-1990) that initially formed the idea of the band, when they were the Golliwogs. Even when John took the reigns, it was Tom that gave the familar guitar patterns. In another matter, Procol Harum has been active in some from or another for well over 40 years: each of which has had Gary Brooker as their composer, singer, and organ/keyboards player. Yet, when I think of Procol Harum, two members come to mind that expanded the group: Robin Trower and B.J. Wilson. It was Trower's prodigious guitar playing and Wilson's impressive drumming that made Procol Harum have a life not limited to "A Whiter Shade Of Pale"; their live albums and other works like "A Salty Dog" and "Conquistador" greatly benefitted from Trower and Wilson being involved.

Another group, 10cc, had noted lyricists and singers of note; particulary Eric Stewart was singing lead on most songs. Yet, the leading fixture of the group is, arguably, Graham Gouldman. The Doobie Brothers, to note, had their best years when Michael McDonald was in the band. This is even though Tom Johnston and Pat Simmons have been the mainstays since the beginning. In yet another example, Blue Oyster Cult has had more songs being led by Eric Bloom in both singing and lyric writing. However, their more influential pieces were partly written and had lead singing from Donald "Buck Dharma" Roeser; that includes "Don't Fear the Reaper" and "Burning for You", amongst others.

As you can see, being the frontman of a band does not necessarily mean you were amongst the main figures. At times, listeners need to dig deeper to find the creative forces.

Gerald V. Casale sang more in Devo than Mark Mothersbaugh,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 19:08pm


" The proposed and quite possible special acheivement induction category for the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 (and beyond) provides the ability to induct the group and the individual works of said group (namely Gabriel, Hackett, and Banks) at once. "-Lax

Lax, when I said it was possible, I mean it's possible in the same way that a stray fireball could enter our atmosphere and destroy the entire planet tomorrow. It's not a scientific impossibility, but the likelihood of it happening is so small, you can pretty much write it off. Same with this special category being created just to recognize Genesis.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 19:38pm


LAX, Genesis when and if they get into the hall, they will come in as Genesis in the performer catagory, Same with Peter Gabriel if and when he gets into the Rock hall of fame it will be for the performer catagory.

This alone honors the artist and the work of the artist. No need for a special award for work and the artist. Because it already happens in the performer catagory...

LAX what you are suggesting is to change the formula of the rock hall on awards. It is flawed already, why add even more questions to the induction process?

These flawed questions are already apparent!!!

I don't see them getting around the popularity contest flaw,
or the first year of elegibility flaw.

EXAMPLE: Come on DAVE CLARK FIVE in STEVIE RAY VAUGHAN out. Genesis is a great band and should one day be inducted but under the performer catagory which honors the performer and the work of that performer.

Posted by Stan on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 19:56pm


LAX25...one thing we definitely disagree on is what constitutes "legendary" status. Genesis was a very good group, lots of hits, sold a bunch of records (sound familiar...like about a TON of other groups)...but they never did anything to really shake things up!! There aren't a lot of things in rock that point to Genesis as a focal point in innovation and influence. John Q. Public probably couldn't tell you who the members were outside of Collins and Gabriel. Heck, there's not a lot of people who remember Gabriel being a member. Genesis didn't have any huge sociological impact (like some legendary artists have), they were just a very good group, like Collins and Gabriel were very good solo artists...but "legendary"????

Be honest with yourself and ask yourself if people will be discussing Genesis or any of its members in 100 years. My guess would be...probably not.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 20:09pm


very good Gitarzan, I agree with you whole heartedly. As I said before Genesis is a really good band like many others that failed to make LEGENDARY STATUS

Posted by Stan on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 20:32pm


Paul...I'm like you, CCR's heyday was a LONG time ago...lol!!! I remember seeing them on TV on occasion, but I don't recall a variety show (doesn't mean there wasn't a regional one, though). The times that I saw them, it seemed all eyes were on John Fogerty, and I never saw anyone else sing. To be honest, I paid so much attention to John I guess I never even noticed the other members...that's bad...LOL!!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 20:39pm


...but of course, we should all be quiet because the great Dave Marsh has spoken!!! What a total buffoon!!!! I could take a group of frequent contributors to this site and come up with a better HOF that those "interesting" individuals who make up the "committee"...a group of self-righteous clods that seemingly lost touch with reality a long time ago.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.3.08 @ 20:49pm


I am sorry - It is not possible to take Lax serious when he keeps making the statement that the Doobies were at their best when Michael McDonald joined. MM ruined that band and every Doobie fan will tell you the same.

Posted by Dameon on Saturday, 10.4.08 @ 12:49pm


Dameon, you are incorrect. Any keen listener of Michael McDonald's work is aware that his presence in the Doobie Brothers brought them to a more nuanced asthetic. Let us be honest: without McDonald, the Doobies are a more pop-format Allman Brothers Band, or even a sucessful Marshall Tucker and. That is to say, it is non innovative southern rock. Michael McDonald, with the Doobie Brothers and on his own, has been more influenced with R&B roots and singer-songwriter measures. In effect, Michael McDonald brought the group his writing and performing talents in a prodigious form, garnering them their greatest success. if anything, the Doobie Brothers are not whole if McDonald is not around.

Regarding Peter Gabriel and Genesis, while I agree with you on Phil Collins' solo work in that 100s of millions of albums were sold yet the material was rather spotty; I respectfully disagree regarding the impact and sociological-political influence Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis had and continue to have. Gabriel, in particular, has been immensely influential in both the music and the humanitarian approaches. As I mentioned before, Peter Gabriel was named this year as one of the Time 100 Most Influential People in the World. 10 years back, it was Peter Gabriel that was listed at #53 in VH1's 100 Greatest Rock Artists; one of a great deal of lists that Gabriel and Genesis are amongst.

In all fairness, to downplay Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis as per the annum of John Q. Public is rather silly and baffling. These guys are certainly more influential than some rock artists being considered down the line, or even a fair amount of popular artists of now. I mean, do you think The Jonas Brothers, One Republic, the Mars Volta, or any of the current crop of Kidz Rock favorites (Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato, Chris Brown) will be remembered years from now for their music and performance esthetics, being proclaimed important? In another way, do you think the Proclaimers will be discussed or are being discussed in this same form of reverence as we give to the artists discussed in this posting such as Peter Gabriel, to say nothing of the important branches of the Genesis tree? Or amongst contemporaries, do we consider Alan Parsons, Ultravox, Brand X (!), the Bugles, Iron Butterfly, O.m.d., etc., as similar in importance with respect to Gabriel/Hackett/Banks/Genesis? The answer to all of these is, I would trust, no.

As I have mentioned, there is the possible likelihood that Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis in itself will be inducted as the first recipients of the speical acheivement category format I proposed to Jann Wenner over one year ago. Notice I mentioned them being the first: this category will not be a one-time deal. And, to make a final point, I and many will like to see Metallica get inducted; if only that the Hall of Fame voters do not lemmingly follow Dave Marsh's dictation.

Roy Wood is ELO, not Jeff Lynne,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Saturday, 10.4.08 @ 19:03pm


If Genesis makes the Rock and Roll Hall it will be as a performance group. There is no need for a special catagory for them.

If a new catagory is what you seek. Then start with the Beatles, The Stones, Beach Boys, surely they deserve much more since they have proven to be Truly legendary, Dylan, Marley, Lennon,Hendrix, Clapton,Aretha, Elton also.

Why Genesis---What a laugh!!!!

They are ordinary compared to these True Legends and there are many more legends in the hall that deserve special consideration.

But you know what LAX---They won't do that. If they won't do that for true LEGENDS, what makes you think they will do that for Genesis..

Genesis is not that influential. Again I will state the honest true fact about Genesis."THEY ARE A GREAT BAND THAT HAS FAILED TO MAKE LEGENDARY STATUS"

Why you might ask-" THEY COME FROM AN OFF SHOOT FROM TRADITIONAL ROCK"

Progressive Bands and Artsy bands are many and very good and a lot of them are even truly great in my opinion but obviously, have failed to make LEGENDARY STATUS according to the hall of fame.

Otherwise, Pink Floyd would not be alone as the only Progressive artsy band in the rock hall. Other bands like Genesis, Example The Moody Blues, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, EmersonLake & Palmer,Electric Light Orchestra, Yes, Kansas, Rush,Foriegner, Journey would all be there. It is a shame that these groups have been slighted but let's face it, if any of them get in it won't be for a special catagory or award.

They will be put in as performers in the performer catagory.

I Love the music, and I also love common sense.Special catagories for bands that have been eligable for years, lacks judgement & common sense when they haven't done this already for the performing elite of the music industry.

Posted by Stan on Saturday, 10.4.08 @ 20:01pm


Well the Phils-Brewers game sucked. We could've put the Brew Crew away tonight, but a game 4 beckons. I see a few posts up.

LAX25 -

Much like the Phils offense, the Doobie Bros. are two entirely diff. creatures at differing times in their career. Mc Donald gave them a diff. sound as compared to "Black Water", but the band would've survived even w/out him. The band's sum total may be enough to get it voted in, but separating the front from the back is like separating a good lead-off hitter from the rest of the offense... you'll still be good, but the output will be acheived in a different manner.

As for Genesis, baseball is derived at least partially from cricket, so my question is real simple: can Gabriel or Collins hit the cut-off man? And will they know to slide during an obvious double-play take-out slide?

I love Shane Victorino in center, but nobody out, two men on, and he comes into second standing and gets an interference call on him! AARRGGHH!!!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 10.4.08 @ 20:44pm


I would agree with you completely Gitarzan, That committee is a group of blundering musical idiots. What they know about music I could probaby squeeze into the tip of my little finger. If I were put on the committee with people from this forum. My choices would be different then the Rock hall committee.
I would start by offering up ten nominations with only the top three vote getters having eligability. nominees would only be elected based on the majority of first and second place votes.If an artist does not have a majority of first or second place votes they don't get in. This could mean some years nobody gets in. If the pickings are slim then wait till next year.
My nominees for this year would be as followsin no specific order.

Jethro Tull
Chicago
Moody Blues
Neil Diamond
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Deep Purple
Albert King
Willie Nelson
Jeff Beck
Jerry Butler

My choices cover all the genres that could cross over into Rock as well such as R&B,Country, Blues, Pop
Hey Gitarzan what would you do if you were on the committee for a change it has to be better than what they are doing!!!!!

Posted by Stan on Saturday, 10.4.08 @ 20:53pm


As a side note, I want to say that I just absolutely love the work that the Rock Hall's video editors do in making every inductee seem like the biggest freaking artist that ever lived in their induction videos. The work they did for Leonard Cohen, The Ventures and the Dave Clark Five last year were nothing short of miraculous. It's not going to be hard to make The Stooges, Metallica or Run-DMC look like the essence of rock, but I look forward in seeing what they do for the other two inductees.

Posted by MBI on Saturday, 10.4.08 @ 23:21pm


Lax - as much as I despise Wenner and Co.; I can only pray that they do not put in credence into your letters. You are as bad as them.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 10.5.08 @ 06:33am


I think inducting some of these before Alice Cooper and kiss is a total joke, I recently visited the museum and was not impressed by it

Posted by velvet on Sunday, 10.5.08 @ 08:31am


I am in no means Jann Wenner: therfore, I am not as "bad" as Wenner and co. are.

But in all fairness, why is it that Wenner and the Hall of Fame Foundation should not have paid notice to the suggestions and inferences I have presented regarding Peter Gabriel at least, alongside the classic lineup of Genesis, being inducted by way of the special acheivement format I have described? Is this due to me being a fan and by extension a lobbyist for Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis?

You know, I am reminded of an anecdote. Back in the early 1970s, there was a band that had backhanded sucess entitled Hotlegs. They made only one album, "Thinks: School Stinks", with one noted song, "Neaderthal Man", and other humor centered works on the album. About a year later, the three artists that made up Hotlegs, e.g; Eric Stewart, Lol Creme and Kevin Godley, teamed up with a noted songwriter and helpful hand in the Hotlegs recordings (Graham Gouldman). The band was christened 10cc. By about 1975, the height of 10cc's noteriaty, all four members (not just Gouldman), noticing the attention 10cc was getting as opposed to the first Hotlegs recordings, re-released the only Hotlegs album and subsequent b-sides. It was entitled after a noted b-side, "You Didn't Like It Because You Didn't Think Of It."

What I am getting at is there are those that are agape at this special acheivement induction format, and for Peter Gabriel at least to receive this honor along with Genesis both as individuals and as a group, because this idea did not come across their minds. And attempt as some might, it is not deniable to notice the influence and creativeness that Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis had and still do have. Now, it is argumentative to discuss solo Phil Collins and solo Mike Rutherford with respect to their influence (which, I think, there was not any), yet the aforementioned four lead branches of the Genesis tree is fully known for their influence and innovations.

Referencing Cheesecrop's anology of baseball, I will give another. In Game 6 of the 1975 World Series, Carlton Fisk (Hall of Famer) hit an impressive home run to even the series for the Boston Red Sox and force a Game Seven. Now, the tying home runin the 9th inning for the Red Sox was done by Bernie Carbo (non-Hall of Famer). Carbo's home run is often discussed; yet it is Fisk's home run that has reached mythic proportions in Boston, at least. You see, from before and after the 1975 World Seies, opposing teans feared Fisk's offense, to say nothing of his then record breaking defensive catching games. Carbo, however, was not a player teams in the opposition feared and/or even respected. It can be said that Carbo's home run in Game 6 was a fluke; yet for Fisk, it was possibly not, considering his offense. Baseball fans, as a result, did not go to see or watch games to witness a Bernie Carbo hit or run or play. Yet, fans and onlookers would continually watch games Carlton Fisk was in to notice his consistency and outspokeness.

What this has to do with Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins is this. Collins, in his solo works, is like Bernie Carbo; some impressive things, yet not of any real significance. For instance, "Susudio" patterns "1999" by Prince, and "In the Air Tonight" lifts a drum and soundscape pattern from "Intruder" which Peter Gabriel wrote and recorded on his third solo album (Melted Face.) As well, in Genesis alone, Phil Collins did write song lyrics, and sing and play drums. Yet, the sound of Genesis by the 1980s was derived from Tony Banks, whom Tony Smith once mentioned was the one guy in the band that could never be replaced.

By contrast, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks are like Carlton Fisk: you remember their works and their innovative songs and ideals as the years go on. Same with Genesis as a band.

Now, as I have mentioned before, you could make a case, and may likely happen, that all five of the classic line-up's individual works be inducted as well as the Genesis works; not only the Gabriel/Hackett/Banks works but perhaps even the Collins/Rutherford stuff as well. This does not change the idea for the classic line-up of Genesis, and the individual Gabriel/Hackett/Banks material, to be inducted into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 in the special acheivement category in its inaugural year.

I will leave you (for now:) with this query. If in all probability and likelihood this induction process does occur (and I think it is quite possible), what will you consider then? It does not need to be regarding myself, but with respect to the honors given and those to come.

Jim Rice for the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2009,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 10.5.08 @ 18:20pm


I have fired off a letter of my own to the RRHOF saying under NO circumstances whatsoever should 1 group like Genesis be singled out for some "Achievement Award." There's at least 20 other acts that deserve consideration for making great music over the years that has influenced many people and inspired other musicians as well. These include Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, ELP, Gram Parsons, King Crimson, Chicago, Sonic Youth, Link Wray as well as many others....

Posted by Arrow Man on Sunday, 10.5.08 @ 18:51pm


I agree with Arrow - I think I will send an e-mail saying the samething. There are at least two dozen acts that deserve such an honor before Genesis.

It is not happening Lax. So move onto the next subject. You are getting as bad as the Backstreet Boys and Steve Perry fans.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 10.5.08 @ 20:05pm


"But in all fairness, why is it that Wenner and the Hall of Fame Foundation should not have paid notice to the suggestions and inferences I have presented regarding Peter Gabriel at least, alongside the classic lineup of Genesis, being inducted by way of the special acheivement format I have described?"---LAX

Because by comparison to them and in their eyes, you're just another fanboy. So am I. So is Casper, and Dameon, Liam, Gitarzan, MBI, mrxyz, and pretty much everyone who posts on this site. Another fanboy who thinks their favorite group is the greatest thing since sliced bread. They hold us in about as much esteem as we hold 90% of the people arguing for solo Steve Perry's induction based solely on his being "the VOICE OF JOURNEY, and OH HE MAKES MY PANTS MOIST!!! GO STEVE PERRY!" You get my point.

As for not being the first to think of it, what makes you think that you are? You didn't. Back in 2005, I submitted a letter asking the committee to consider several acts and people, across all the categories. Among them, I suggested that a group be inducted with a special acknowledgment of their achievements. My reason for wanting to give them a special induction was that they were not only Performers, but also Side-Men, and Non-Performers as songwriters, arrangers, producers, and record label owners. That group still hasn't gotten any such acknowledgment. So, I doubt very much Genesis will receive such consideration either, as what you have suggested is really nothing new. IMO, if a special achievements category is created, it should be for those acts who could easily be inducted in those three categories, like that group, or Quincy Jones, or even like this year's nominee Bobby Womack.

And agreeing with Dameon, you're starting to remind me of a certain Animotion song. And I hate Animotion.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 10.5.08 @ 23:02pm


LAX Your comparisons are out to lunch These are your quotes---"What this has to do with Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins is this. Collins, in his solo works, is like Bernie Carbo;" and "By contrast, Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks are like Carlton Fisk:"

I Guess That Means that The Beatles are Like Babe Ruth, Willie Mays,Hank Aaron,Mickey Mantle---These are Truly the great LEGENDARY HITTERS in BASEBALL---

Genesis is not in the hall of Fame so they don't even measure up to Carlton Fisk's Standards---Genesis is all Bernie Carbo

At this time Genesis is another GREAT BAND THAT HAS FAILED TO MAKE LEGENDARY STATUS--They haven't even made Hall of Fame Status- so how do they warrant a special award---

Give me a break---

LAX You are so way off base---

I used to love Genesis. But because of all your nonsense I probably will never have as much fun listening to my Genesis albums as I once did.

They were a great band but you are way too extreme man!!!!Thank GOD there is an awful lot of great music out there because GENESIS is so INSIGNIFICANT----

Posted by Stan on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 00:41am


I'm sure that even if Wenner did read LAX25's letter (my guess is he didn't), he would've given his best "Dr. Evil" impersonation as a response...

"RIGHT.....!!!!"

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 06:28am


I had a feeling this was coming.

To be honest, I am not at all upset over these statments; I disagree, but I am not upset over these statements.

Now, perhaps I was out of my element in explaining the whole Fisk/Carbo relevancy outlook. It just came to my mind rather instantly.

To note, I am still of the inference and opinion that a special acheivement induction process will commence starting for the Class of 2009. And I am rather confident (without empirical proof) that Peter Gabriel, and/or the classic lineup of Genesis in both solo and group works (possibly not the Collins/Rutherford solo works) will be the first honorees of this category.

I could be wrong, however. And if that is the case, and it could be the case, well first we will know the results of who goes in by the Holidays. After that, then it is lobbying for Peter Gabriel, and I suppose Genesis, to be inducted in the Hall of Fame Class of 2010. Thus, I am likely to be incorrect on when Gabriel will be inducted. Yet, I and others are certain he will be inducted at some point; perhaps even Genesis and solo Steve Hackett and Tony Banks as well.

By the by, this is not an obsession of mine. it is an interest, but not the interest, if you will. And as I mentioned, I am prone to being incorrect in my inferences.

Owned (not with a p, since that is not a word),

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 06:51am


Genesis will probably get in one year in the next decade, but they will have to wait in line as so many others.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 07:18am


I beleive all your lobbying and stuff are basically mis-directed.

First of all the Hall Of Fame Induction is a special achievement of it's own.

Genesis, or Peter Gabriel if and when they get in will be like everyone else ever inducted in the performer catagory!!!

No Special achievement award, No special ceremony other than the one they give every year. That's It.

They haven't given Dylan a special award for his writing capacity, or the Beatles and Lennon and McCartney for theres, Or For Hendrix's is Guitar playing or even Claptons Guitar playing with two other bands and Solo.

So If and When Genesis get in it will be the Ordinary way!!!!!

I Believe Gitarzan's comment"I'm sure that even if Wenner did read LAX25's letter (my guess is he didn't), he would've given his best "Dr. Evil" impersonation as a response..."

"RIGHT.....!!!!"

I Totally agree.

So to move on to better things Let's see who get's the honor and who doesn't,

Stevie Ray Vaughan it's a shame, the Rock hall of fame doesn't know what it's doing!!!!

Posted by Stan on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 10:04am


Stan, let me attempt (perhaps) to explain the special acheivement induction process I have proposed.

When you mentioned The Beatles, John Lennon, Sir Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, and Eric Clapton, these artists are arleady in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And deservedly so. I will say, however, that it took a while for a few of them to get inducted: Clapton, in particular was a bit of a wait. And I know he was inducted as part of the Yardbirds (along with Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Chris Dreja, and Paul Samwell-Smith), and as part of Cream (along with Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker.)

The thing is, admittedly, Clapton was not the guy in both of those bands. The Yardbirds, for instance, had many lineup changes, but the constant and its leading figure, arguably, was Chris Dreja. And while he expanded his influence with Cream, it was Jack Bruce that sang lead on most songs, and helped write their classic works. And Bruce spoke in concert the most: "That was Eric Clapton on vocals!"

And I know that Clapton appeared in both 1992 and 1993 with those bands' inductions. Yet, in all fairness, it is Eric Clapton's own induction as himself in 2000 that I beleive he cherises the most. And it is understandable; it is not shared with anybody. I would not be suprised to consider McCartney's own induction in 1999 to be more of a cherised induction than with the Beatles; again, it was for his entire works.

So I inferred that to not have a situation in which a noted and influential artist gets inducted twice (or thrice), the last of it being on his/her own and the one more sought (presumably), why not make this more streamlined and complete by inducting not only the artist(when eligible) but also the group that the artist belonged to. If it was needed to induct more than one individual works of a member of an important group, then it would be given at the same moment as well.

Here is an example: The Police are already inducted. In about a year's time or so, Sting becomes eligible for his solo works; Dream of the Blue Turtles was completed in 1985. Now, I am not certain when Sting on his own will be inducted; yet, it will happen. That same VH1 list of the 100 Greatest Rock Artists had the Police at #10 and Sting for his full works at #63. I would even surmise that Sting would perhaps be more pleased to be inducted on his own than to share it with fellow bandmates. Knowing how Sting, Stewart Copeland, and Andy Summers can tolerate each other (which is to say, it depends), Sting would certainly be more inclined to have a second induction; and for him, a more personal one at that.

Now then, Peter Gabriel is one of the more influential and consistently excellent rock artists, along with being a tireless activist for international and humanity issues, an impreesive recording studio and multimedia company leader, and an innovator in video music. Heck, Gabriel could be inducted as a performer, or a non-performer(similar to Carole King), or even a lifetime acheivement recipient (mainly in record production.) To also note, he was involved with Genesis, one of the more impressive and innovative art rock acts; Ggabriel's time with the band arguably was their most fruitful period. As well, besides Peter Gabriel, Genesis also had two noted art rock artists that expanded their palletes on their own: Steve Hackett and Tony Banks. In sales of records, it is not in the same league as Gabriel, yet Hackett and Banks' own albums of individual works are interesting, and do sell profitable records (to an extant.) Of the three, Banks has been invovled with Genesis in some form or another their entire existance. Peter Gabriel left after "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway', and Steve Hackett left after "Seconds Out". Thus, an induction for Genesis only does not fit well to encompass all branches of the tree.

The idea, then, would be to have Genesis be inducted, along with Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks in their own works, at once. It we have to include solo Phil Collins, for instance, so be it. in any case, you get the band inducted, and the individual works of their members without the need to have a second induction for an artist on his/her own. Everyone is pleased and no one is dissapointed. This special acheivement proposed induction category is an outlet, therefore, to have a group and important individual members be inducted at once in all areas. The Roxy Music tree is another example, in order to induct the band and Ferry, Eno, and Manzanerra in their own works.

So, I will state that the five inductees in the Performers category for the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 will be Metallica, Chic, Wanda Jackson, Iggy Pop/The Stooges (goes either way since Iggy has been a Stooge in all their incarnations, along with Scott Asheton), and Jeff Beck on his own. Beck, I predict, will be more inclined to consider this induction be his Hall of Fame induction; he will certainly have a lot more to say and thank.

Regarding the other four nominees, Run-DMC has a chance for induction, though the rap genre is looked down upon from certain institutions. War has a fair chance, yet I doubt the induction will occur this time. Bobby Womack would likely go in if there were six inductees, but could slightly miss out this year. And Little Anthony is a likely inductee, yet not a preferred inductee.

I will also state that with the outrage presented in which the life works of Stevie Ray Vaughan were not a fianlist for 2009, SRV though posthumous will be a finalist and inductee for 2010.

Finally, I am of the inferred belief that Peter Gabriel will soon be inducted; possibly along with Genesis, and maybe Steve Hackett and Tony Banks. I am not certain if 2009 will be the year for Gabriel, yet inducting him outside of the Performers category is quite a probability; it is a stretch however. Rather, it could be likely that the special acheivement process may be given for Peter Gabriel to go along with Genesis the group and its members' solo works. If this does not occur, then it is very probable that Gabriel will be a finalist and inductee for 2010. Claearly, our discussion of Peter Gabriel's merits, and Genesis' merits, have given the RRHOF Nominating Committee the information and reasons for an eventual induction. Yet, popular music in these formats is not a game of numbers. Rather, it is an important lobbying process to convince others.

Hoping I answered your questions,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 18:15pm


Stan...let's see, if I were somehow in charge of the induction process, I'd definitely give present inductees and/or surviving family some sort of input, if not a vote. Give them a list of say, 100 eligible artists and have them pick, say, 20. Secondly, I'd follow my induction criteria to the absolute red letter...no exceptions!!! My core nominating committee would consist of the best modern music historians I could find...not a bunch of "legends in their own mind" from some silly magazine!! Then have the committee decide amongst the 20 who should be inducted...it might be all 20, it might be NONE! That way, if someone got passed up, it would be because they just didn't make the grade.

I would also set up some sort of fan survey (not a vote) on a list of finalists (which wouldn't be limited to just 9 nominees). After all, the people bought the albums, concert tickets, etc..., and that should at least be recognized. That would allow the committee more information in case something was overlooked.

I would do what I could to put it in the hands of learned, unbiased individuals who have taken what current inductees and fans have expressed, then use their own extensive knowledge to make a solid decision...leave little room for doubt.

Pretty wild, eh...!!! Hope I didn't give anyone a headache...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 20:15pm


When will the special induction ceremony for Genesis be televised?

Posted by Casper on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 20:48pm


When will the special induction ceremony for Genesis be televised?

Posted by Casper on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 20:48pm

Right after they show the manned spacecraft landing on Jupiter. It is as far out there as this ceremony he keeps talking about.

Posted by Brian on Monday, 10.6.08 @ 21:09pm


Indded you are right, Keebord.

The Vh1 list of the 100 Greatest Rock Artists is exceptionally better than the Rolling Stone list and even a Time-Life book regarding the greats because of the inclusion of Pink Floyd alone; along with a nice topping in that the Floyd were in the top 20.

As well, this is the only list I am aware of that includes as opposed to the "Immortals" list the following: Pink Floyd, Fleetwood Mac, Queen, Tom Petty, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Van Halen, REM, B.B. King, Peter Gabriel, Earth Wind & Fire, Sir Paul McCartney on his own accord, Sting on his own accord, Talking Heads, KISS, The Pretenders, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Rod Stewart, The Bee Gees, John Coltrane, Billy Joel, Devo, T Rex/Marc Bolan, Carole King, Tom Waits, Gladys Knight, The Four Tops, Robert Johnson, and Steve Winwood/Traffic. A more impressive list was made by VH1 in this regard.

Casper, I do not think or have any proof that the stock of Peter Gabriel has dropped. Simply stated, there have been newer legendary figures that have become amongst the great rock artists since 1998. I would include Radiohead, Public Enemy, Eminem, Dr. Dre (yes, rap is included), Mariah Carey, and quite a number of others. Nonetheless, Gabriel's stock has not changed, if it has not risen. On the other hand, my prefernces in stock for the solo works of Phil Collins has indeed drooped considerably.

Quite notably, Iggy Pop/The Stooges will be inducted in 2009. I still think an induction for Peter Gabriel will commence in some form for the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 in a non-performer or special acheivement format (alongside Genesis, which I have discussed previously), or in the event it does not occur this cycle, then in 2010. Stevie Ray Vaughan will be inducted posthumously for the Class of 2010. Sting on his own may come in either for 2010 or the ensuing two years after.

Sadly, John Coltrane died in 1967; long before the concept of the RRHOF Foundation came into being. I am not certain if there are surviving family still in full activity, since the death of Alice Coltrane in 2007. As well Marc Bolan died in 1977, and subsequently so did several T Rex members. The chances for both Coltrane and/or Bolan to be inducted though posthumous is considerable yet with little time for current relevance.

Devo might have a long wait to be inducted. It is hard at times to convivnce non-fans that therew was more to Devo than "Whip It". Regarding Tom Waits: the overlooking of this innovative and unique singer-songwriter is rather shameful. Perhaps Waits could also be inducted in differing formats. And with respect to KISS, I would agree with inducting them. The Nominating Committee, however, needs to be throughly convinced, which I think is quite probable.

Now, regarding if a special acheivement induction would be televised. Yes it would be, if so inclined that the proposed idea is taken into fruition; it may likely, though perhaps with a caveat.

Brian, one day a manned spacecraft will land on Jupiter. Maybe not now or in a few years, but eventually this will happen. Thus, maybe not a special acheivement process comes forward now or ever, but individuals like Peter Gabriel and Genesis and Steve Hackett and Tony Banks will be inducted. I am rather curious regarding the spacecraft proposal, though.

Before I go, if any of you fellow readers watch VH1's initial broadcast of the 100 Greatest Rock Artists, who was #101. Does the artist in question deserve induction?

Already given you a hint,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 10.7.08 @ 18:37pm


LAX, Thank you for clearing up nonsense with more non sense, I really appreciate it.

Peter Gabriel, and the restof Genesis--- Special induction NEVER, Induction as a performer is certain just when is the question? Like Stevie Ray Vaughan, Chicago, Neil Diamond, Moody Blues, Emerson Lake Palmer, Rush, Deep Purple, KISS, Alice Cooper, Yes, Jethro Tull--and many more etc.

Anyhow I really like your Idea Gitarzan for your nomination ideas.

Many fans of music in general would appreciate those ideas as opposed to the Committee they already have. Thanks Gitarzan for your input.

How many of this years Nominees do you consider truly LEGENDARY? Is Metallica, or Jeff Beck, Bobby Womack, Those three possibly--Little Anthony, War,Stooges, Maybe Wanda Jackson, Chic, Run DMC We'll see.

I personally have a hard time with this group of nominees. But this is the list of choices, We'll see who becomes legends in this committees minds.----Truly bazaar and amazing at the same time...

So Stevie Ray --Next year!!!!!

Posted by Stan on Tuesday, 10.7.08 @ 21:29pm


Stan, the reported non sense you have mentioned may have stemmed from the comments intitally responding on the VH1 100 Greatest Rock Artists list.

The terminology does remain simolar. Peter Gabriel will be inducted, along with Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and the rest of Genesis; Gabriel may in all probability be inducted in the Class of 2009 in either a non-performer category (which is a stretch), or in a special acheivement format likely alongside the classic lineup of Genesis as both individuals and as a band. The latter is new in format, yet it is not out of the imagination to do such an induction. If not in this time, then Peter Gabriel will get inducted, at the least, in 2010. And yes, Stevie Ray Vaughan will posthumously be inducted in 2010 as well; the overlooking at SRV's life works can only be taken as far.

To note, I admit confusion uon fellow readers with how the initial previous comments were given. Yet, the premise still stands.

Remaining confident against the tide of doubt,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 10.8.08 @ 17:47pm


LAX I am glad you are confident against the tide of doubt... First let me say.

Special achievements when it comes to the Rock Hall are few and not many and mostly for music execs..

Peter Gabriel, and all the rest of Genesis are great performers who so far have failed to get into the hall of fame.

It is a stretch and so much a stretch that it would be impossible for them to get in any other way but as performers!!!!

It is like stretching a rubber band from here to CHINA and that is a stretch ---You are making that kind of stretch.....

I love Genesis and the Orignal and classic line up of them. I also love Peter Gabriel. But I am also realistic. I beleive they will get in as performers and in no other way.

The confusion here is being created by you and I feel if your letters to Wenner are like your letters here. Then you are making a confused man more confused.

This is doing a disservice to Peter Gabriel and Genesis.
Think of the logic you are promoting---man is it hard to buy---It's like me taking a swamp and selling off as prime real estate it just doen't fly man can't you see.

So if you want to promote Peter Gabriel and the classic lineup of Genesis do it for induction as a performer because that will likely get them in sooner than later.

Also it is because they are great performers of the craft of music man. That's it....That is the amswer!!!! They are talented and that is the measure of their merits---

Don't do Peter Gabriel and Genesis a disservice by promoting them any other way because it won't fly!!!!

Hope this clicks in your brain man!!!
---Promote it right----

Posted by Stan on Wednesday, 10.8.08 @ 20:23pm


Remaining confident against the tide of doubt,

Lax25

I think it is more like a tsunami!

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 10.9.08 @ 07:13am


If Lonnie Jordan of WAR and Jerry "Golddigger" Goldstein don't give up their greed in keeping the name WAR to themselves, I'm sorry to say we TRUE fans of their music will never see them in the R&RHOF. They are unfortunately diluting the sound of what was once WAR at their concerts. For the real deal and the soul of WAR (the name) you have to check out The Lowrider Band.com, and in concert if you get the opportunity. Making it heard and delivering the word!

Posted by Lowrider Band Fan on Thursday, 10.9.08 @ 12:53pm


Why would Peter Gabriel be inducted as a Non-Performer? That'd be like inducting Barry White as a Non-Performer: you could make an argument if you tried, but you'd really be missing the bigger picture if you did.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 10.9.08 @ 17:11pm


EXACTLY---LAX are you listening-Thanks Peter for your reiteration of the arguement against this absurd idea!!!!!

Posted by Stan on Thursday, 10.9.08 @ 18:04pm


I am listening, Stan.

Look, an induction into the RRHOF is an induction of equal measures, be it a performer, non-performer, or a special acheivement format. Example: last year, Little Walter was posthumously inducted as a sideman. Yet, a great deal of Little Walter's influence were on his own records. Yet, the Hall of Fame has Little Walter inducted; so there it is.

I am simply proposing and inferencing an idea for the Class of 2009 and afterwards; one that inducts the individual works of a selection of artists, and the band these artists were part of. It can be said that it is absurd; yet, it is within the realm of probability, or at the least possibility. Now then, we will know the Class of 2009 inductees by the holiday season, I trust. If by any point of note that Peter Gabriel and perhaps even Genesis, plus Steve Hackett and Tony Banks, do not get inducted in either a special acheivement category (all important branches) or even as a non-performer for Gabriel (a stretch, I admit), then the lobbying for induction continues in getting inducted for the Performers category in 2010. I beleive the proposed induction process for special acheivement will take place this Hall of Fame Class of 2009: however, I could very well be incorrect. Thus, if that is the case, then we lobby for Peter Gabriel at the least to be inducted as a performer in 2010.

Awaiting your reply,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 10.9.08 @ 19:21pm


LAX

First of all LAX, "I beleive the proposed induction process for special acheivement will take place this Hall of Fame Class of 2009: however, I could very well be incorrect. "

Not very well be incorrect---You are Incorrect

and another point!!!!!

Little Walter was on so many blues records. He has an emormous catalog solo, but his side men catalog is 5 times as much as his solo catalog. Can you say that about anyone in Genesis... Or in all honesty anyone in Rock.

Being Sideman for Muddy Waters and Jimmy Rogers alone are between seventy five to one hundred and twenty albums. That is not counting side sessions with almost every Chicago blues musician in the fifties and sixties-From Koko Taylor To Buddy Guy.

Here is a little history for you LAX...

Little Walter came out of the post war era, with his harp amped to the hilt. He left saxophonists unemployed because their gigs were taken by Little Walter harp blowing immitators,all along the Chicago Blues Scene.

Within a 17 year period Little Walter was a blaze of harp glory then he became a physical wreck and died from physical violence.

None the less, it is his body of work that remains.

If he would never have made a solo record of his own, his stature is such of LEGENDARY proportions. From Every artist at chess records to independent labels playing under assumed names Little Walter's catalog is legendary, Solos, Instrumentals Written songs, sidemen you name it he did it.

Thus the appropriate Induction of Sideman

Let see what is Genesis----HMMM last I checked Performer

Let see what is Peter Gabriel-----HMMM last I checked perfomer

I think the appropriate award for them if inducted would be performers...

Your arguemnt is now falling on mute ears here.Because your examples are getting more and more far fetched. I enjoy the comedy and bantor but in all seriousness, I am going to live a lot longer knowing you are that serious about something this laughable.

LAX-- When Peter Gabriel and Genesis get inducted and they give their induction speech one person that won't be on the list of Thank you's is you!!!!

It is kind of a shame that they are not like the Monkees or Bobby Sherman and you don't have your little Genesis lunch box or something off of the old sixteen magazines then they would really know that you are the president of their fan club-

Then They might reject the Rockhall all together.

All in jest---You can still dream I guess that's America!!!!

Posted by Stan on Thursday, 10.9.08 @ 20:49pm


I watched the VH1 special in full when it aired but I don't remember who was #101. What's the answer, Lax25?

Posted by Casper on Sunday, 10.12.08 @ 19:07pm


He gave it a few days ago it was Dire Straits.

Posted by Brian on Sunday, 10.12.08 @ 20:22pm


Ah, thanks. Probably another artist that benefitted from the list being made up of a lot of current artists that grew up on 80's icons. I REALLY doubt Peter Gabriel or Dire Straits would stand a chance in a new list that weighted the opinions of modern day giants like Broken Social Scene.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 10.13.08 @ 01:16am


Casper, Broken Social Scene are not modern day giants. Feist is, but not Broken Social Scene.

On that account, a list of the 100 Greatest Rock Artists today would still include Peter Gabriel. It may even include Dire Straits, provided that the emphasis on the band lies in the years that David Knopfler was with the group. Feist would likely make a list, or one that expanded the rankings. Yet, Broken Social Scene does not merit the title of being amongst modern day giants. They simply are not; with the obvious exception of Feist on her own.

Also, if you want to be more honest about it, Peter Gabriel became known during the 1970s. Same goes for Dire Straits. Now, admittedly after David Knopfler left Dire Straits, the band became more popular, if not less interesting on the whole. And Peter Gabriel, along with Genesis, Steve Hackett and Tony Banks, became more in tune with the 1980s.

To note, Broken Social Scene are not seriously Hall of Famers. Feist is a legitimate candidate in the future. Dire Straits should be inducted one day, again provided that the David Knopfler influenced music is given equal importance to that of Mark knopfler's works.

Peter Gabriel will in all likelihood be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, either for the Class of 2009 in the Non-Performers category (a possibility, yet a stretch); a Special Acheivement induction format that includes Gabriel, Hackett, and Banks on their own accord, along with Genesis and its classic lineup as a band (not out of the realm of probability: indeed, this would be the more precedent-forming and bountiful indiction process); or being inducted in the Class of 2010 in the Performers category. Either way, Peter Gabriel will be inducted. If I am incorrect, then we will known by the end of the holidays.

Not the textual equivalent of Alfred E. Neumann,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 10.13.08 @ 17:44pm


Again, (and I've said this before...) Just because THE IMPERIALS are not important to fans of White , guitar-based Rock music, does not mean they don't belong in the Hall. R&B IS A PART OF ROCK AND ROLL....IN FACT, IT'S ONE OF IT'S PROGENITORS !!! They are a very important, historical group, one whose appeal transcends not only generations, but musical genres as well.They were, in the late '50's , ONE OF THE FIRST DOO-WOP/R&B GROUPS TO CROSS OVER TO THE POP CHARTS ,and be TOTALLY ACCEPTED BY ROCK,POP, R&B, AND DOO-WOP FANS ALIKE. You want "INFLUENCE?" Their songs have been covered by such diverse artists as THE LETTERMAN(who seemed to have covered every song they've ever made) , FRANK SINATRA,LINDA RONSTADT,SERGIO MENDEZ & BRAZIL'66, THE MIRACLES,WES MONTGOMERY,THE ZOMBIES,VICKI CARR,DOC SEVERINSEN (Yes...THAT DOC SEVERINSEN), LUTHER VANDROSS,NANCY WILSON,DR JOHN ,THE CLASSICS 4,THE DELFONICS, VIC DAMONE,TITO PUENTE,QUEEN LATIFAH, and many more. Their songs have taken on the status of CLASSICS...known all over the WORLD.Songs that HAVE NEVER LEFT THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS SOME FIFTY YEARS LATER. GOING OUT OF MY HEAD.HURT SO BAD. TEARS ON MY PILLOW.I'M ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN.TWO PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. TAKE ME BACK. MAKE IT EASY ON YOURSELF. HURT.OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND.I MISS YOU SO. YOU BETTER USE YOUR HEAD,AND MANY MORE.... THEY WERE ONE OF THE VERY FEW DOO-WOP GROUPS to survive that genre and era ... and that continued to have hits right through the MOTOWN and BRITISH INVASION ERAS...WELL INTO THE 70'S. And they have a BRAND NEW ALBUM coming out this month !!! Do they belong IN? The question is LUDICROUS...THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN INDUCTED YEARS AGO !!!

Oh...and ONE MORE THING...THE IMPERIALS were on AMERICAN BANDSTAND in 1958...and on DAVID LETTERMAN in 2008...with 3 out of 4 ORIGINAL MEMBERS !!! HOW MANY OTHER OF THIS YEAR'S NOMINEES can match THAT RECORD ??

Posted by Bill G on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 16:04pm


1) Motown's first group.

2)Motown's first million-selling act.

3)Over 50 chart hits.

4) 4 songs in the GRAMMY HALL OF FAME.

5) 3 songs in ROLLING STONE'S list of the "500 GREATEST SONGS OF ALL TIME".

6) One album in ROLLING STONE'S LIST OF "THE 500 GREATEST ALBUMS OF ALL TIME".

7) 3 SONGS in THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME'S OWN LIST of the "500 SONGS THAT HELPED SHAPE ROCK AND ROLL". (How can they honor the SONGS,BUT NOT THE GROUP THAT RECORDED THEM ?

8) Every member except One (Claudette), winners of the prestegious BMI AWARD for SONGWRITING .

9) Inductees into the VOCAL GROUP HALL OF FAME.

10) Winners of THE RHYTHM and BLUES FOUNDATION'S PIONEER AWARD.

11) One song ,"The Tracks Of My Tears", chosen by the Record Industry Association Of America (RIAA) as # 127 in it's list of the " SONGS OF THE CENTURY- The 365 GREATEST SONGS OF THE 20TH CENTURY.

12)That same song (The Tracks Of My Tears) preserved by the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS as an "culturally, historically and aesthetically significance" to the NATIONAL RECORDING REGISTRY.

13) Getting a star on THE HOLLYWOOD WALK OF FAME in early 2009.

14) The ONLY MOTOWN GROUP during the 1960's that WROTE AND PRODUCED THEIR OWN MATERIAL (ALL of the members , not just their lead singer.)

15) Between 1959 (when Motown was first formed) until 1964, THE LABEL'S ONLY CONSISTANT HITMAKING ACT .

16)"The Tracks Of My Tears"- was also chosen as one of the "Top 10 BEST SONGS OF ALL TIME" by a panel of 20 top industry songwriters and producers including Hal David,Paul McCartney, Brian Wilson, Jerry Leiber,and others as reported to Britain's "MOJO" music magazine.

17) More than 40 of their songs covered by literally HUNDREDS of other artists ...from many different musical genres... POP, ROCK, COUNTRY, REGGAE, MOR(EASY LISTENING), JAZZ ,as well as R&B/SOUL.

18) ALL MEMBERS..writers of hit songs by MARVIN GAYE, MARY WELLS, THE TEMPTATIONS, THE MARVELETTES, KIM WESTON, THE CONTOURS, BRENDA HOLLOWAY, THE FOUR TOPS, and many more....

19) And... if THATS NOT ENOUGH....
BETWEEN 92 TO 93% OF ALL WHO VOTE ON THIS SITE CONSISTANTLY SAY THAT THEY DEFINITELY DESERVE RRHOF INDUCTION...

..... But STILL NOT INDUCTED AFTER OVER 20 YEARS.

.....NOT EVEN ON THE RRHOF'S LIST OF THOSE "PREVIOUSLY CONSIDERED" FOR INDUCTION.

" THE MIRACLES "

Posted by Bill G. on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 17:14pm


when the hell are you guys gonna get your heads out of the sand and put rush into the fame????

Posted by stu on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 18:04pm


hey stu: how do you like the year 2112?
(did you hear this one already? not too clever I'll admit.)

Posted by telarock on Tuesday, 10.14.08 @ 22:25pm


Although I don't know these groups that well or at all the biggest injustice is that Jethroe Tull isn't in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The back to back albums of "Thick as A Brick" after "Aqualung,"
are two of the most original, incredible albums ever. Then the countless other songs they did, stage presence, ability to sound better than the album, etc. Who was ever more talented than Ian Anderson?

Posted by Rick Toth on Wednesday, 10.15.08 @ 00:40am


Sorry . I left one out:

20) Unlike many groups,THE MIRACLES are on ALL 3 LISTS OF THE "100 GREATEST ARTISTS ON ALL TIME"....VH-1'S,BILLBOARD'S, AND ROLLING STONE'S ...So,one can't help but ask...."Why not even CONSIDERED FOR INDUCTION" ? If they reached the point of nomination...they'd get in FOR SURE....SO,SOMEONE is seeing to it that THEY DON'T EVEN GET NOMINATED !!!

Posted by Bill G on Wednesday, 10.15.08 @ 06:46am


By the way,in addition to THE MIRACLES, RUSH is ALSO getting a star on the HOLLYWOOD WALK OF FAME IN 2009. CHECK OUT THIS SITE :
http://www.hollywoodchamber.net/icons/walk_of_fame.asp

Posted by Bill G. on Wednesday, 10.15.08 @ 06:52am


Good to see I am not the only poster lobbying for an artist to be inducted.

On paper, inducting The Miracles is worthy of consideration. Bill G. has made a rather convincing case. And yet...

And yet, Smokey Robinson is already inducted. and Robinson, to put it bluntly, was the Miracles during his stint with the vocal group. Heck, the group were often billed as SMOKEY ROBINSON and the miracles. Based on that accord, the Miracles are inducted; it is just Robinson inducted, the creative force.

Let me put this another way: one artist I have lobbied for induction is Lionel Richie. Not the Commodores; just Lionel Richie. When Richie was with the band, essentially he was the creative force and focus. Unlike Smokey Robinson, Richie's stint with the Commodores did not relegate the band name to second fiddle. However, when Lionel Richie left the band in 1981, he effectively took with him the creative output, the fanbase, and the songs (publishing or otherwise). In fact, much like songs from The Miracles being incorporated into Smokey Robinson's own name, so too has Lionel Richie done the same with Commodores songs; on tour and in compilations.

Now it must be said that there was life for the Commodores after Lionel Richie, much as there was life for the Miracles after Smokey Robinson. It just was not that proficient. The Miracles did have "Love Machine", but I cannot think of other post-Robinson hits. Likewise, the Commodores had "Night Shift", but little else in hits post-Richie. As well, there have been passages of arguably both groups' second-in-command. Ronnie White of the Miracles died in 1995; Milan Williams of the Commodores died in 2006.

Both bands still continue, yet you will not ever see Smokey Robinson or Lionel Richie set foot with their previous bandmates. I even remember an attempt to reunite the Commodores with Lionel Richie on an installment of VH1's "Bands Reunited". Each Commodore that was interviewed, including Williams, Walter "Clyde" Orange, William King, Roland Lapread, and Thomas McClary, stated in no uncertain terms that it would be impossible to get Lionel Richie invovled. Indeed, Richie declined the offer.

So, in all fairness, it seems understandable to induct Smokey Robinson as opposed to the Miracles, and that Lionel Richie will be inducted (hopefully by 2010) as opposed to the Commodores. And this is not an uncommon occurance. Cetain acts became known with a member that may not have been longstanding yet were vitsl to the group's output. In that regard, it seems understandable to induct one day Al Kopper and/or Steve Katz as opposed to Blood, Sweat and Tears; Roy Wood as opposed to ELO (yet I would induct the full oineup of the Move), Michael McDonald as opposed to the Doobie Brothers, Lemmy and/or Nik Turner as opposed to Hawkwind; Terry Kath and Peter Cetera as opposed to Chicago, Domenic Troiano as opposed to The Guess Who, amongst others.

Thus, I have stated the reasons for a reluctance to induct the Miracles. This is unlike my lobbying for Peter Gabriel whom may be inducted in the Class of 2009 in some form or in 2010 in the Performers category (I still think the special acheivement induction alongside the classic lineup of Genesis is likely in 2009). In that matter, Gabriel is not yet inducted; neither are Steve Hackett and Tony Banks. Yet, it will occur. Regarding the miracles, it has occured. It is just the more obvious choice: Smokey Robinson.

Remembering when "You Really Got a Hold on Me" was used with Muppets,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 10.15.08 @ 18:49pm


To Lax 25: (Pt 1). Thank You for your comments. in reply, let me make a few points IN FAVOR of The Miracles being inducted. These are valid points that I've made comments on elsewhere.
Point One: The Miracles had a total of not one,not two, but NINE charting singles without Smokey. Three of these reached the Top 10 of Billboard's R&B chart, "Do It Baby", "Love Machine", and "Don't Cha Love It". The first two of those songs were million-plus sellers, and "Love Machine" was a multi-million seller. It also reached #1 on the Billboard Pop Chart...something that Smokey HAS YET to do as a solo artist....his highest - charting solo single was "Being With You" , which reached #2.
Point Two: The Miracles "City Of Angels" album , from which "Love Machine" was taken , went Platinum....also something Smokey has yet to do solo...although he has had several solo Gold albums to his credit.
Point Three: Curtis Mayfield was BY FAR the creative composing genius behind his group ,The IMPRESSIONS. Sam Gooden and Fred Cash didn't write songs , and the group's original lead, JERRY BUTLER was & is a writer, but had long since left the group. Yet , The Impressions AND Curtis were given separate inductions into the Hall. Why not the Miracles ?
I submit to you this: ALL OF THE MIRACLES were writers (Except Claudette). ALL OF THEIR NAMES WERE LISTED AS WRITERS ON THEIR SONGS (not to mention songs by THE TEMPTATIONS, MARVIN GAYE, MARY WELLS, ETC. ...NOT JUST SMOKEY'S. How many times have you picked up an album by THE MIRACLES or THE TEMPTATIONS...looked at the writing credits and seen the names ROBINSON, ROGERS, MOORE ,WHITE , and TARPLIN...as opposed to just "ROBINSON" by itself ? I've seen PLENTY!! The other MIRACLES were BIG contributors to their body of work...yet THE OTHER INDUCTED MOTOWN GROUPS DIDN'T WRITE ANY !!! Name ONE song written by ANY member of THE TEMPTATIONS or THE SUPREMES that reached the Top 10. How about the Top 20 ?...How about even the Top 40? (good luck looking ). Now , how about THE MIRACLES ? THERE ARE DOZENS !!! Don't BELIEVE IT ? Go to Wikipedia and check out this site : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_The_Miracles_members . (End of Pt 1)

Posted by Bill G on Thursday, 10.16.08 @ 02:07am


To Lax 25 (Pt.2)

Again, I submit to you this: HOW CAN THE SUPREMES, THE TEMPTATIONS,THE FOUR TOPS, MARTHA & THE VANDELLAS, and GLADYS KNIGHT & THE PIPS BE INDUCTED ...WHO (with a few exceptions) DIDN'T WRITE SONGS....while the MIRACLES , who wrote or co- wrote literally DOZENS OF HITS, with and without Smokey,BE COMPLETELY IGNORED?
That platinum CITY OF ANGELS album was written IN IT'S ENTIRETY BY MIRACLES PETE MOORE & BILLY GRIFFIN.Smokey had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WRITING OR PRODUCTION OF THIS ALBUM..( so much for the theory that THE MIRACLES could do nothing without HIM.
So much for reasons why THE MIRACLES SHOULDN'T BE inducted.
Now, let me tell you why I think they SHOULD.
1) Historical Importance/First of Genre: Motown is considered a genre unto itself... because it was the FIRST form of R&B/Black Music that broke down all racial and ethnic barriers with it's popularity.
THE MIRACLES were the FIRST MOTOWN GROUP. It was their groundbraking success that opened the doors and paved the way for ALL OTHER MOTOWN STARS.They also had MOTOWN'S first-ever million-selling record: "SHOP AROUND". From the 5 year period from 1959 whem Motown Records was first formed , until 1964,THE MIRACLES were the label's ONLY CONSISTANT HITMAKING ACT.
2) "Influence"-While on Wikipedia, if you check here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracles#Cover_versions , you'll find that THE MIRACLES are THE MOST COVERED MOTOWN GROUP OF ALL TIME. The list of artists that have covered their songs includes artists from many different musical genres: POP, JAZZ, COUNTRY, MOR/EASY LISTENING,ROCK AND HIP-HOP.... as well as SOUL/R&B. They were JOHN LENNON'S favorite group...several of the BEATLES songs ...including ASK ME WHY and SEXY SADIE ,were DIRECTLY INFLUENCED BY MIRACLES' SONGS.... and that's a fact you can check !!
3) CREATIVITY: we already talked about this one: THE MIRACLES WROTE THEIR OWN STUFF....THE OTHERS DIDN'T. SMOKEY is a songwriting genius.... no one is denying that...but to give him ALL OF THE CREDIT ....WHEN ALL OF THE GROUP'S MEMBERS WERE PART OF THE WRITING AND PRODUCING PROCESS.... IS DEFINITELY UNFAIR. They started from the beginning...just like him. They co- wrote the songs... just like him...they did all of the dates, played all of the cheap, dirty dives,endured all of the dangers and rigors of touring...JUST LIKE HIM....so where does it say that HE SHOULD GET ALL OF THE PROPS AND ACCOLADES....AND THEY GET NONE. They had THE SAME ORIGINAL MEMBER LINEUP FOR 17 YEARS !! IF THE RRHOF did this to the MIRACLES....THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT to ALL THE MOTOWN GROUPS.....AND INDUCTED ONLY DIANA ROSS, DAVID RUFFIN, LEVI STUBBS, MARTHA REEVES , AND GLADYS KNIGHT. Did THESE people get inducted as "solo' artists ? No. They were inducted with their groups !!! I'm not saying that Smokey does not deserve individual recognizion....BUT..HE'S ALREADY GOTTEN IT !! MANY TIMES OVER .... as have MICHAEL JACKSON,ERIC CLAPTON,the aforementioned CURTIS MAYFIELD,AND EACH INDIVIDUAL BEATLE (except Ringo...and HE'LL probably get in solo before long) All of these people have been inducted solo... AND with their groups....Smokey has been inducted solo over 20 years ago. And please keep in mind... that his name WAS NOT ORIGINALLY PUT IN FRONT OF THIS GROUP...FOR MANY YEARS THEY WERE SIMPLY KNOWN AS "THE MIRACLES".... NOT "Smokey Robinson" & The Miracles.
It's time for the RRHOF to do the right thing,and induct SMOKEY ROBINSON,(again), BOBBY ROGERS, PETE MOORE , RONNIE WHITE (RIP),CLAUDETTE ROBINSON, MARV TARPLIN, AND BILLY GRIFFIN.
In fact , it's long past time.

Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 10.16.08 @ 02:11am


Oh, and one more thing...Smokey HAS reunited with THE MIRACLES...SEVERAL TIMES. Check out the INFO,PICTURES ,LINKS AND THEIR NEW DVD HERE :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Miracles

Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 10.16.08 @ 02:31am


I stand corrected on a great deal of the facts, Bill G.

I need to poitnout, though, a few things. Gladys Knight and Martha Reeves were essentially inducted on their own: it just felt right to include the Vendellas and the Pips as well considering the inseperable nature presented. As well, there is a difference of opinion in regards to if it is the Supremes or Diana Ross and the Supremes as it became widely known. On that matter, Diana Ross may already be inducted on her own accord then.

Regarding the Miracles, it is possible that the ship has sailed for a seperate induction. We all know that Smokey Robinson is inducted; it therefore entails that his entire works and writings are included. And that does include the Miracles songs and albums.

Why, then, would Robinson need to be inducted again, only this time with a group? As well, I doubt the induction in 1987 of Smokey Robinson would be amended to include the Miracles 21 years after the fact.

Look, if you get one singular individual inducted into the RRHOF, either as only themselves or after a group induction, that ends all matters of induction. For instance, Eric Clapton is not going to be inducted for the fourth time to accomodate Derek and the Dominoes. That was for all purposes Clapton, and Eric Clapton was inducted on his own in 2000.

Likewise, my lobbying efforts have been used to campaign for the eventual induction of Peter Gabriel on his own accord primarily. I am of the inference that Gabriel will be inducted liekly in a special acheivement format for the Class of 2009: this would include the classic lineup of Genesis and each members' individual works, particulary Gabriel, Steve Hackett and Tony Banks. Now, Gabriel could also go in as a non-performer which may be a stretch. If not this time, then Gabriel is a shoo-in for 2010 in the Performers Category.

Now then, when Peter Gabriel does get inducted on his own accord, that will be the end of the matter for his induction. By every inference and knowledge given, Gabriel is the lock for induction in the Genesis tree. Now, my preference would be for a special acheivement induction format that would include the Genesis works and the entire individual works of the classic lineup, or at least its main figures. Yet, even if an induction goes only for Peter Gabriel, his Genesis songs and recordings are included for induction. Thus, Genesis from inception through 1975 will be inducted: it will be either with Peter Gabriel, or in the special acheivement format.

In another point, Lionel Richie may likely be inducted in the near future, hopefully by 2010. A Richie induction will include the songs and recordings of the Commodores from inception through 1981. Much like the Smokey Robinson edict, the Hall of Fame has more reason to induct Lionel Richie on his own, and eschew inducting the Commodores in the group format. And frankly, Richie would in all likelihood prefer it this way; it is his own induction eventually.

To note, it is a great honor to be inducted into the RRHOF with a group. To be inducted as an individual, notably after a group induction, is much sweeter and revered. And to be inducted with a group after being inducted on your own is rather odd. Neil Young, for instance, was inducted in 1995, then with Buffalo Springfield was inducted again in 1997. Young was at the ceremonies in 1995. He was not there two years later. In the next two or so years, Sting will be considered and likely inducted for his individual works. I can guarentee you that Sting might look forward to that induction, as opposed to being content with going in with the Police.

Thus, Smokey Robinson, in my belief, is more content being inducted on his own. Lionel Richie will be inducted on his own. And out of all branches of the Genesis tree, Peter Gabriel will be the one that is certain to be inducted, likely in a special acheivement form with his bandmates in 2009; though other processes may take place.

Hope this clarfies some words,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Friday, 10.17.08 @ 19:12pm


"I need to poitnout, though, a few things. Gladys Knight and Martha Reeves were essentially inducted on their own: it just felt right to include the Vendellas and the Pips as well considering the inseperable nature presented."--Lax.

WTF? No they were not inducted on their own. Just because the front person for a group for a group is listed separately doesn't mean the group is inducted when in fact it is THE GROUP LISTED as the inductee. Martha Reeves' and Gladys Knight's solo accomplishments are hardly noteworthy, which is why in the group's discographies, nine times out of ten, you might see the solo stuff included in such cases. Martha as a soloist has no chance of getting in (and I say this as a fan of Martha & the Vandellas). Same with Gladys Knight. Her highlight as a soloist was as one of the "Friends" on Dionne Warwick's "That's What The Friends Are For." As another for instance... Frankie Lymon had a solo career, but it was "Frankie Lymon And The Teenagers" who were inducted, not just the frontman. Lymon will never be inducted as a soloist.

In the case of Smokey Robinson, there is a big enough and distinct enough body of work to separate his solo work from that of the Miracles. The same cannot be said for solo Knight or Reeves.

"As well, there is a difference of opinion in regards to if it is the Supremes or Diana Ross and the Supremes as it became widely known. On that matter, Diana Ross may already be inducted on her own accord then."

No she is not. The Supremes are listed as the inductee in 1988. She has not been inducted (or even considered) as a soloist.

"And out of all branches of the Genesis tree, Peter Gabriel will be the one that is certain to be inducted, likely in a special acheivement form with his bandmates in 2009."

Keep telling yourself that. But it's more likely that all nine Performer nominees will be inducted because the vote comes out as a nine-way tie.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 10.18.08 @ 00:36am


Although now that I say it, a nine-way tie is probably the best thing we CAN hope for. I gotta admit, of the nine nominees, seven of them I'd like to see make it at some point. They may not be THE SEVEN MOST deserving candidates, but I think that they seven deserving candidates, nonetheless, and it's what we've been dealt with this year. Deal with it. So get those seven in. Of the other two, Chic is the one I want LEAST to see get in, though I think this will be their year. I really don't think they should be in. But at this point, they're gonna keep nominating them until they're in. Just no giving up. So hey, let's throw them in and put them out of our misery. Lastly, Wanda Jackson is one I'm half-and-half on. Had she stayed kept the rock'n'roll going for a couple more solid years (and a few more hit singles on the Hot 100 wouldn't have hurt) before becoming exclusively a country sweetheart, you'd make a pretty solid case for her. As is, I can take or leave her, but it'd be cool enough to see her make it and not get left in the cold, especially given my scenario where Chic gets in too.

And in this event, too, it might send the message that the number of Performer inductees needs to be bumped back up to eight, nine, or even ten (dare I dream?).

Anyway, I know it's a longshot. I'm sure that if such a nine-way tie were to occur, Wenner would cast a tie-breaking vote, and his five picks would get in. Still, it'd be nice, and imo, the best that could happen.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 10.18.08 @ 01:23am


http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_halloffame_non.html

Non-Performers Category
Songwriters

Jeff Barry & Ellie Greenwich

Famed songwriting husband & wife team of the 60's responsible for numerous hits coming out of the Brill Building, notably "Be My Baby", "Da Doo Ron Ron", "Hanky Panky", "Then He Kissed Me", "Chapel Of Love", "Do Wah Diddy Diddy", "You've Lost That Lovin' Feelin", "Leader Of The Pack" and coutless others, many of which they also produced. A veritible 60's songbook.

Qualifications: 8 - Unquestioned Credentials

Thom Bell & Linda Creed

Among the founders of the Philly-soul style, prolific writers and producers throughout the late 60's and 70's. Few sub genres of rock were as successful as this one and Bell and Creed were at its forefront the entire time, penning hits for the Delfonics ("La La Means I Love You" and "Didn't I Blow Your Mind This Time"), The Stylistics ("Betcha By Golly Wow", "Break Up To Make Up", "You Make Me Feel Brand New", "You Are Everything" and "I'm Stone In Love With You") and The Spinners ("Rubberband Man"), all of which not only went Top Ten on the R&B Charts but the Pop Charts as well.

Qualifications: 9 - Dominant Artists

Bert Berns & Jerry Ragavoy

Two of the best songwriters and producers of the 60's, their work (separately and collectively) includes "Twist & Shout" , "Cry Baby", "Piece Of My Heart", "Hang On Sloopy", "Time Is On My Side", "Stay With Me", "I Want Candy" and "Cry To Me" among many others, and they helped to shape the entire careers of many major artists along the way.

Qualifications: 8 - Unquestioned Credentials

Jesse Stone

No less a figure than Ahmet Ertegun said - "Jesse Stone is more responsible for the basic rock 'n' roll sound than anyone". Among those yet to be inducted Stone's omission is possibly the most disgraceful, for it was he who most shaped the entire direction of early rock 'n' roll while working as a songwriter, arranger and de facto producer at Atlantic Records in the 50's. While all three of Atlantic's ownership brain trust are in, and Ertegun has the whole museum named after him, the true genius of the musical side of their empire, without whom they'd have been just another floundering independent company, remains locked out of the shrine altogether. Further shame is due the voters because Stone was in his late nineties and still writing songs when he died a few years ago, meaning he was still around in the flesh to be honored publicly and they failed to even consider it. If there is a rock 'n' roll heaven, Stone is now leading the band. If there is a rock 'n' roll hell, the voters who didn't elect him in his lifetime had better get their travel plans ready.

Qualifications: 10 - The Immortals

Barrett Strong & Norman Whitfield

Songwriting/producing duo at Motown that defined the label after Holland-Dozier-Holland departed in the late 60's. Their work with the Temptations took the group from sweet harmony records to psychedelicized protest anthems without sacrificing any of their popularity. Countless hits to their credit, separately or collectively, including Strong's own performance of "Money" which was the label's first legitimate hit and a bar-band staple ever since.

Qualifications: 9 - Dominant Artists

Bernie Taupin

Singer-Songwriter and Pianist Elton John and his songwriting partner, Lyricist Bernie Taupin, were both inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame in 1992, but only Elton John was inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame in 1994. This does not make any sense whatsoever. If there had not been a Bernie Taupin, there would not have been an Elton John and vice versa. Their music was a collaborative effort. Bernie Taupin should have been inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame back in 1994 as a Lyricist in the Non-Performers category, the same year that Elton John was inducted.

Bernie Taupin didn’t just write lyrics exclusively for Elton John. Bernie Taupin also wrote the lyrics for songs performed and recorded by Ringo Starr, Rod Stewart, Cher, Alice Cooper, Melissa Manchester, Derringer, The Motels, Starship, Heart, Animotion, John Waite, Martin Page, Peter Cetera, Courtney Love, Willie Nelson and Emmylou Harris, as well as for his own singing career, both as a solo artist and as a member of his own late-1990s Country-Western band, The Farm Dogs.

Elton John and Bernie Taupin comprise one of the longest running and most successful songwriting teams of all time. Bernie Taupin’s 40 years of collaborative work with Elton John alone should qualify him for the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame. Please induct Lyricist Bernie Taupin into the Rock And Roll Hall of Fame in the Non-Performers category. His induction is long overdue.

Qualifications: 10 - The Immortals

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 10.18.08 @ 04:31am


I Leave town for a week and LAX still has the notion that Peter Gabriel will get into the Hall this year!!!! LAX ,Nominations are already out!!! Gabriel and Genesis have to wait til next year!!!!No SPECIAL NOMINATIONS FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY FAIL TO MAKE LEGENDARY STATUS AT THIS TIME!!!!!!

Posted by Stan on Saturday, 10.18.08 @ 08:20am


To Bill G. & LAX---Bill G is right when it comes to Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. Actually LAX if anyone would deserve special awards or nominations--Smokey Robinson Deserves it before anyone in Genesis---But in all honesty neither will get special induction ceremonies. Smokey can get inducted in the non performer catagory for his song writing skills but he will be inducted as a performer more likely!!! As for Genesis and Peter Gabriel---All performers that's it for them!!! and obviously not until next year or later because THEY ARE A GOOD BAND THAT HAS FAILED TO MAKE LEGENDARY STATUS!!!

Posted by Stan Crawford on Saturday, 10.18.08 @ 10:00am


Still not listed on Future Rock Hall:

Bernie Taupin
Tony Bennett
Mel Torme
Liza Minnelli
Rita Coolidge
Buffy Saint-Marie
Phil Ochs
George Benson
Al Jarreau

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 10.21.08 @ 05:34am


Roy, your list is well devised. I even have quite a number of works from these artists. I must say, though, that only Bernie Taupin has the greatest chance of being inducted. Phil Ochs has regrettebly been marginalized after his death in 1976. Mel Torme died in 1999, thus leaving any form of inducting him be posthumous. Tony Bennett has already received a Kennedy Center Honor. Liza Minnelli is questionable: she was not rock, yet she was not entirely jazz-pop either. I do have reservations about Rita Coolidge; not certain why. Buffy Saint-Marie should gain noted recognition: yet there might be a reluctance when considering that Saint-Marie also wrote and perform music for younger people. It will not even matter to some that this came during collaborations with Jim Henson, and Joan Ganz Cooney through their "Sesame Street" program.

I would take Al Jarreau for induction. He has been very adaptable with certain forms of styles and sounds. Jarreau has even written a great deal of songs. George Benson would be commendeble, following the recent induction precedents of Miles Davis and Herb Alpert.

Welcome back, Stan. I do have a query for you. What, in your mind, will it take to have Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis acheive what you have regarded as LEGENDARY STATUS? Is there some magic number, similar with how we can determine Hall of Famers in pro football and baseball? From what I have gathered, at the least, Peter Gabriel has acheived LEGENDARY STATUS. Thus, Gabriel, if not Genesis as both individuals and a group in the same induction, is ripe for being in ducted into the RRHOF. As well, I am of the belief that the induction for Peter Gabriel may come as likely a special acheivement format in which Gabriel is inducted along with Hackett and Banks, and the Genesis rubric, for the Class of 2009. I am also of the belief in that the special acheivement format will be the first of an annual induction prowess. Now, it may turn out that Gabriel will be inducted in the Non-Performer category, though it is a stretch. And if the inductee list is filled up for 2009, then Peter Gabriel will be inducted in the Performers Category for the Class of 2010.

I do like the idea of a full-way tie in inducting all finalists, however. Why limit to five when you can add as much as needed?

Typed before an audience of one,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 10.21.08 @ 17:36pm


In addition to the artists Roy listed, still not listed in Future Rock Hall:

After the Fire
Bottle Rockets
Divinyls
Quarterflash
Sam Sham & the Pharoahs
The Seekers
Wall of Voodoo

All these bands are as deserving of a page as the other 1 hit wonders (that I've never heard of) that already have pages.

Posted by Paul in KY on Wednesday, 10.22.08 @ 11:00am


Paul, Roy & Others -- All of the recently requested artists have now been added to the list.

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Wednesday, 10.22.08 @ 20:24pm


I'm sorry. But, I think this year has got to be one of the worst for induction possibilities into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

I own music by most of the artists. But, I just cannot believe the way some of the most influential artists of all time continue to be snubbed while a group like Run DMC will probably go right in. If it wasn't for Steven Tyler and Joe Perry playing with them on "Walk This Way", the majority of people would never have heard of their music.

The most unbelievable snubs have got to be Paul Revere & the Raiders, the Moody Blues, Deep Purple, Steppenwolf, Alice Cooper, Jethro Tull, KISS, Rush, Heart, and let's not forget the most influential drummer of Rock and Roll- Ringo Starr. YES! He should be inducted as a solo artist. He's fantastic!

Anyway, the Hall needs to play a little catch-up and get these artists inducted where they belong.
I know there are others.

Posted by Tom on Wednesday, 10.22.08 @ 21:01pm


Tom: I agree that the Hall is missing a few too many essential bands, but your comment on Run DMC is off base. It was at Rick Rubin's suggestion that Run DMC check out the Toy's In The Attic album. "Walk This Way" was a natural for Hip-Hop/Rap because of Tyler's sped up vocals and constant beat with the boys put down. They remade the song and it crossed over into all genre's (Hip-Hop, Rap, Hard Rock and Top 40)and brought Aerosmith back from the abyss and into the MTV spotlight. So the truth is that if it were not for Run DMC, then it is Aerosmith who might not have been known by the newer generations. Personally, I wish the song didn't happen because Aerosmith followed with crap music for the next 20 years.

Aerosmith needs to be remembered because of Sweet Emotion, Seasons of Wither, Dream On and Mama Kin; not Dude Looks Like a Lady and I Don't Want To Miss a Thing.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Thursday, 10.23.08 @ 05:23am


"Little Anthony & The Imperials - Made a big splash on Letterman which obviously convinced Paul Shaffer to take a stand for these guys. The fourth example on this ballot so far (that we know of) where the influence of a few outweighs the level of influence on the landscape of rock."





"Little Anthony: Don't like that guy's voice. Shouldn't there be some kind of statute of limitations? If you've been eligible since 1986 and you STILL haven't gotten inducted, can we at least say that their influence is questionable at best? And seriously, why should the guy behind "Shimmy Shimmy Koko Bop" be inducted, really? Sigh, at least I've actually heard of them, as opposed to a lot of other doowop groups in there already. I mean, the Moonglows?"

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *





Again, (and I've said this before...) Just because THE IMPERIALS are not important to fans of White , guitar-based Rock music, does not mean they don't belong in the Hall. R&B IS A PART OF ROCK AND ROLL....IN FACT, IT'S ONE OF IT'S PROGENITORS !!! They are a very important, historical group, one whose appeal transcends not only generations, but musical genres as well.They were, in the late '50's , ONE OF THE FIRST DOO-WOP/R&B GROUPS TO CROSS OVER TO THE POP CHARTS ,and be TOTALLY ACCEPTED BY ROCK,POP, R&B, AND DOO-WOP FANS ALIKE. You want "INFLUENCE?" Their songs have been covered by such diverse artists as THE LETTERMAN(who seemed to have covered every song they've ever made) , FRANK SINATRA,LINDA RONSTADT,SERGIO MENDEZ & BRAZIL'66, THE MIRACLES,WES MONTGOMERY,THE ZOMBIES,VICKI CARR,DOC SEVERINSEN (Yes...THAT DOC SEVERINSEN), LUTHER VANDROSS,NANCY WILSON,DR JOHN ,THE CLASSICS 4,THE DELFONICS, VIC DAMONE,TITO PUENTE,QUEEN LATIFAH, and many more. Their songs have taken on the status of CLASSICS...known all over the WORLD.Songs that HAVE NEVER LEFT THE PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS SOME FIFTY YEARS LATER. GOING OUT OF MY HEAD.HURT SO BAD. TEARS ON MY PILLOW.I'M ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN.TWO PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. TAKE ME BACK. MAKE IT EASY ON YOURSELF. HURT.OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND.I MISS YOU SO. YOU BETTER USE YOUR HEAD,AND MANY MORE.... THEY WERE ONE OF THE VERY FEW DOO-WOP GROUPS to survive that genre and era ... and that continued to have hits right through the MOTOWN and BRITISH INVASION ERAS...WELL INTO THE 70'S. And they have a BRAND NEW ALBUM coming out this month !!! Do they belong IN? The question is LUDICROUS...THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN INDUCTED YEARS AGO !!!



Oh.... and one more thing....They were on AMERICAN BANDSTAND in '58....and on DAVID LETTERMAN IN 2008.... with 3 out of 4 ORIGINAL MEMBERS !!!! HOW MANY OF THIS YEAR'S OTHER NOMINEES can match THAT RECORD ??





Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 10.23.08 @ 16:18pm


JERRY BUTLER has already been inducted...as an original member of THE legendary IMPRESSIONS. He wrote and sang lead on their first million-selling hit,"FOR YOUR PRECIOUS LOVE". But yes, his sheer number of solo hits since then, as well as his being a seminal figure in R&B/Soul, as well as his songwriting, and his charitible works as Chairman of the RHYTHM and BLUES FOUNDATION,fighting for the rights and unpaid royalties of many underpaid and neglected classic R&B artists,(not to mention hosting those great PBS specials) ,qualifies him , in my opinion, to merit individual induction, (like fellow IMPRESSION Curtis Mayfield), into the ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME.

Posted by Bill G. on Thursday, 10.23.08 @ 17:07pm


Bill G, I agree with you on Jerry Butler. Butler was as equally important with the Impressions as was Curtis Mayfield: along with his own solo works. I continue to disagree, however, on your prowess for inducting the Miracles on their own accord. It could happen, yet with Smokey Robinson already inducted, it is not feasible to induct Robinson a second time.

Now, I do realise it sounds odd coming from a poster that has lobbyed for Peter Gabriel to be inducted. The matter is, neither Gabriel, nor any of the classic line-up of Genesis (particularly Steve Hackett and Tony Banks along with Peter Gabriel) have yet been inducted. In this case, the tree has not had a branch be inducted. While with the Miracles, the leading figure of the group, Smokey Robinson, is already an inductee. In the aforementioned Peter Gabriel lobbying, it is certain that Gabriel is the certain inductee of the Genesis tree. I am still of the belief that a special acheivement induction format for Gabriel, Hackett, and Banks as both a collective and individuals is likely for the Class of 2009; though if the inductee list is filled, then a likely Performers category induction for Peter Gabriel at least will occur in 2010. Thus, while it is certainly commendable to gain notice of the legacy of the Miracles; I am not certain an induction is necessary when Smokey Robinson is already inducted.

Paul in KY, a great way to subterfuge the listings. Rather humorous as well. The only artist listed that could be considered Hall of Fame material would be Stan Ridgeway. And that would be for his own individual works. To note, Bottle Rockets, the Divinyls, and the Seekers WOULD HAVE BEEN important figures; had there had been noted individuals that were involved with the groups that made the groups unique. Alas, it was not to be.

Detesting "Wooly Bully" only slightly less than "Louie Louie",

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 10.23.08 @ 18:58pm


Lax25....While I respect your opinion concerning THE MIRACLES, again, I must disagree. you're basically saying that it's OK for other groups , such as THE IMPRESSIONS, to be inducted collectively,AND their two principals,JERRY BUTLER and CURTIS MAYFIELD ,to be inducted separately....BUT not so with THE MIRACLES. (Two sets of rules).While THE IMPRESSIONS were a very important group, the fact is simply that THE MIRACLES WERE FAR MORE IMPORTANT. Their appearance , and subsequent success, marked THE BEGINNING OF THE ENTIRE MOTOWN PHENOMONON!! They OPENED THE DOORS FOR EVERY MOTOWN ACT THAT FOLLOWED THEM !! They had more and bigger hits than the IMPRESSIONS, AND MORE MILLION SELLERS. 16 Top 20 BILLBOARD POP Hits and seven Top Tens....more than DOUBLE the number of THE IMPRESSIONS on BOTH CHARTS .This comparision between these two groups was ALSO a topic for discussion on SIRIUS radio recently. ALL of the male members of THE MIRACLES WERE SONGWRITERS ...only TWO of the Impressions were ...and to be frank, JERRY BUTLER didn't stay with the group very long before going solo. Of course, SMOKEY was and is a creative force to be reckoned with....but , consider this: Music critics and historians have many times pointed out about the distinct drop in the quality and consistancy in SMOKEY'S musical composing output after 1967. That time period DIRECTLY CO- RELATES to the point at which he stopped collaberating with the OTHER MIRACLES.... and began co- writing with Motown staff songwriters, such as AL CLEVELAND, TERRY JOHNSON, etc. THE MIRACLES hitmaking output went into a kind of a dead zone from 1968-1970, with few bright spots during that period (Tunes like Yester Love, Special Occasion,Point It Out,etc. were all great songs, but didn't exactly set fire to the charts, and didn't measure up to the quality of "The Tracks Of My Tears". "Ooo Baby Baby","My Girl", or other great songs he composed WITH the MIRACLES). To attempt to minimize the talents and importance of BOBBY ROGERS,PETE MOORE, the late RONNIE WHITE,and MARV TARPLIN is not only UNFAIR, IT'S INACCURATE. Even SMOKEY HAS GONE PUBLIC , PRAISING THEIR TALENT AND ABILITIES !! If THE MIRACLES WERE AS UNIMPORTANT AS YOU (and the RRHOF) IMPLY...THEN WHY IS IT THAT THEY APPEAR ON ALL 3 LISTS OF THE TOP 100 ARTISTS OF ALL TIME.... VH-1'S, ROLLING STONES...AND BILLBOARD'S ? OVER THIRTY YEARS AFTER THEIR LAST CHART HIT ?...A fact that would STILL BE TRUE WHETHER SMOKEY'S NAME WAS PUT IN FRONT OF THE GROUP.... OR NOT ? And while you're thinking about that question...answer THIS ONE...Would you (and others) have been so prone to minimize the importance of the MIRACLES IF MOTOWN HADN'T MADE THE DECISION TO PUT SMOKEY'S NAME UP FRONT ? And would the same misfortune have ALSO befallen THE IMPRESSIONS had Curtis Mayfield's name HAD ALSO BEEN PUT UPFRONT?

Posted by Bill G. on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 03:26am


Another thing I'd to mention (while it's on my mind) is this: On their "100 GREATEST ARTISTS OF ALL TIME" telecast,when ranking THE MIRACLES, VH-1 refered to them as "THE PILLARS OF THE MOTOWN SOUND". PLURAL....NOT SINGULAR. (NOT JUST SMOKEY).HOW can the RRHOF induct all of the BRANCHES of THE MOTOWN TREE...WHILE IGNORING THE ROOTS ??

Posted by Bill G. on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 03:35am


First: STOP WITH THE CAPS! That is really annoying. It is affecting the quality of your post, and is not fun to read.

That said, I would say most of us will agree with you that The Miracles should have been inducted along with Smokey. It was a big mistake they only inducted him, one of their biggest. The reason I think they shouldn't be nominated, is not that I don't think The Miracles deserve to get in the Hall, but that a second induction for Smokey would make his solo work more important than it is. Sure, the name one of his solo hit singles was the main influence to name a genre "Quiet Storm", but his solo work is not nearly as influential as his work with The Miracles. On the other hand, both The Impressions and Curtis Mayfield's solo work made a big impact on music history, in different genres.

I do think The Miracles should be inducted, but not the regular way. I don't want to see them appear on a ballot, I want the Hall of Fame to admit and correct their mistake by inducting them right away, adding "& The Miracles" to Smokey's name. And off course, they should get an invitation to the induction ceremony. That way, their work could get celebrated without inducting Smokey Robinson twice.

Posted by The Claw on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 04:17am


Lax25 wrote: 'Paul in KY, a great way to subterfuge the listings. Rather humorous as well. (skip remainder)'

Thank's for the shout out. Every one of those bands has songs I like. After reading thru the complete list of artists & seeing mucho bands that I'd never heard of, I thought those ones deserved their own page too. Even though none of them are Hall worthy (The Seekers being the closest).

Posted by Paul in KY on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 05:32am


What about Bon Jovi? They are eligible now and with as much as they've done in the last 25 years, why not induct them their first year?

Posted by Natalie on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 12:04pm


No!!

Read above comments to know why.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 12:12pm


The 2009 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame
Possible Inductees for the Non-Performers Category

Jeff Barry & Ellie Greenwich
Thom Bell & Linda Creed
Bert Berns & Jerry Ragavoy
Barrett Strong & Norman Whitfield

Tom Dowd
Arif Mardin
John Simon
Jesse Stone
Quincy Jones
Bernie Taupin
David Foster
Wolfman Jack
Casey Kasem

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 13:13pm


The 2009 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame
Possible Inductees for the Early Influence Category

Bing Crosby
Frank Sinatra
Tony Bennett
Ella Fitzgerald

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 16:11pm


Although I do think the Hall of Fame should acknowledge the influence of crooners on rock & roll, there are people that were a big influence on the early days of rock n roll and important players in the development of the genre, still left out. People like Wynonie Harris, Roy Brown and Big Jay McNeely. Obviously, your choices are bigger names, but their actual influence on rock n roll is not that big.

I do like your choices for the Non-Performer category. Other possible non-performers: Cosimo Matassa, Otis Blackwell, Lee "Scratch" Perry, Dj Kool Herc, Giorgio Moroder, Felice & Boudleaux Bryant, George Goldner, and off Course Burt Bacharach & Hal David.

Posted by The_Claw on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 16:52pm


Re: The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame
Possible Inductees for the Non-Performers Category
-------------------------------------------------

Roy, I see you are all over the place. Here now is a name (probably never yet proposed) to add to your list: RICHARD PERRY

Q: Who is he? (you ask)
A: Just one of the most successful producers in music history. (I do mean ALL music history!) And yes, Jann "the Man" knows him. In 1973, Richard Perry was named Producer of the Year by Rolling Stone. In 1977 Billboard gave him the same honor.

A few other things you should know about Richard Perry:
He is 1 of only 8 producers whose work is featured in the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences' Franklin Mint Series of the greatest recordings of the 20th century.
He has had albums in the top 10 every decade since the 1960's.
20 of Perry's albums have earned gold status
15 have gone platinum
13 gold singles
6 Grammy nominations for himself
as well as many other Grammys for his artists
He has produced albums that have resulted in sales of over 100 million copies.

Now I know this last group is "only" numbers. So we don't want to make the mistake of looking too much at that (even though it is staggering). The list of artists he has worked with is like a Who's Who, and far too many to name here. Tons of those artists are RHOF inductees or prospective candidates. Check Richard Perry out on Wiki if yor interested.

Now Quincy Jones has been famously (shamefully) snubbed. Everybody knows that. But why don't I ever see any discussion about Richard Perry? Here is a music producer who rivals anyone you can name. Yet I doubt there's a word of him anywhere on this whole site. (I will check that, just to be sure.)

Richard Perry - put his name down somewhere, please.





Posted by Telarock on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 18:58pm


http://digitaldreamdoor.nutsie.com/pages/best_halloffame_non.html

Tell The Digital Dream Door about Richard Perry.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 19:07pm


Okay, will do it right now.

Posted by Telarock on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 19:11pm


The only Non-Performers that can be listed on this site are the ones who also performed.

Example: Carol King, Quincy Jones, Bernie Taupin

Other Non-Performers won't be listed on this site until they are actually inducted.

Example: Jann Wenner, Gamble & Huff

That's how this site works.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 19:21pm


If you want to nominate a non-performer look no further than the late Robert Moog.

After its invention in 1964 the Moog synthesizer became one of the most widely used instruments of the progressive era and was even heard in films like "A Clockwork Orange."

The Byrds, the Rolling Stones, Stevie Wonder, Pink Floyd and of course Keith Emerson of ELP all experimented with it and forever changed the course of rock as a result.

Posted by classicrocker on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 19:22pm


For non-performers, how about the people who came up with the concept of MTV? Think that wasn't a big cultural event??? There's a lot of artists out there who probably wouldn't have gotten far without MTV adding a visual aspect to popular music.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 19:27pm


The only Non-Performers that can be listed on this site are the ones who also performed. - Roy
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Took some doing but I did notify digitaldreamdoor re Richard Perry. Now I see yor statement above. Non-performers have to actually also have been Performers? That makes sense (not)!

How you coming up with Casey Kasem and Wolfman Jack - yor saying DJs count here, but not record producers? Maybe there needs a new link or discussion on this.

Posted by Telarock on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 20:23pm


What I am saying is...

The Future Rock Hall won't make pages on their site for people like Casey Kasem and Wolfman Jack until they are actually inducted.

Example: Jann Wenner did not have a page on this site until he got inducted.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 20:32pm


Because they are not musicians.

Posted by Roy on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 20:35pm


The Future Rock Hall is not affiliated with The Digital Dream Door.

Posted by KOOCOO on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 20:37pm


Telarock

Re

"But why don't I ever see any discussion about Richard Perry?"

the two artists with which he is most associated, Carly Simon and the Pointer Sisters, have both been eligible for over a decade without ever being discussed by the Nominating Committee. If you consider that fact, it would be questionable to induct him.

Posted by taite on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 06:17am


For non-performers, how about the people who came up with the concept of MTV? Think that wasn't a big cultural event???

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 10.24.08 @ 19:27pm
--------------------------------------------------
This has nothing to do w/non-performers here, but I was thinking that this is another feather in the cap for the Monkees, courtesy of Mike Nesmith. Nesmith had his hands in the primitive video era in regards to the influence of the film "Elephant Parts". I know it's not actually associated w/MTV, but there's definitely a link.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 07:10am


Gitarzan, back on the "Predicting the 2009 nominees thread", I suggested the creators of MTV. Their names haven't reappeared on this thread yet, but you're absolutely right about that. If there's gonna be ANY non-performers inducted this year, that's where your safest bets lie.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 09:39am


Guys, why would you want to honor the creators of an institution
that's done more to harm the underlying integrity of rock and roll than help it? Thanks to these jokers we had to put up with the likes of Madonna, Duran Duran, and ZZTop/Aerosmith after they arguably should have been out of commission. MTV made it more about image than the quality of the music- a truly unfortunate development the ramifications of which are still apparent today.

Posted by prognosticator on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 11:16am


True to a degree, but whether you like it or not, MTV changed the face of the music industry. It cannot be denied, and such an induction would be a justified recognition of that.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 13:10pm


I want to bring up that asshole who thought that Jeff Beck shouldn't be inducted. He deserves the honor more than other people who've been inducted in the last few years (Mellencamp, Madonna,Patti Smith, Blondie, Grandmaster Flash etc..) If anyone
knows Beck's great songs such as Beck's Bolero, People Get Ready, Freeway Jam to name a few, I think you should say that he's worthy of such an honor. Would you rather have another rap act like Run DMC in a HOF only suited for rock, or a guitar god who defines rock

P.S, Who cares if he influenced Nigel Tufnel in Spinal Tap, it's a good movie

Posted by james on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 18:43pm


Note: I'm not the asshole in question here, but (hmmm?) guess I will say a few words. Jeff Beck is probably a shoe-in to be elected, so why are you getting excited? Desparaging previous inductees (a weak tactic) does not put your particular artist into a better light. If anything, it just tells readers, like me, that one of Beck's fans is intemperate (lacking self-control) and rude. Try to compose yourself and present a rational argument.

Posted by Telarock on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 18:55pm


He has a point Telarock

Posted by Fluffy Man on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 19:19pm


I think they're missing the point with Jeff Beck. He's one of the best and most innovative and influential guitarists...ever. I guess you could make a case for being inducted on that, since the guitar is THE symbol of Rock & Roll!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 10.25.08 @ 20:04pm


Regarding MTV, I am not so sure if it is needed to induct the founding executives of the network. MTV is (where applicable!) essentially a distribution source for these music videos; they are not necessarily the producers and conceivers of said videos.

Rather, it would be more more wise to induct artists and perhaps video producers and directors as either performers, n on-performers, or in a special acheivement format. Amongst great measures, the potential inductees' contributions to video music (as opposed to music videos) would be reminded of and acknowledge. In fact, now that I consider this, the likely special acheivement Class of 2009 induction of Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks as well as the band Genesis is a prime example of honoring artists/video producersthat expanded their pallete of importance with video music. This special acheivement format could begin a precedence for future annual inductees in these fields.

I do note that I have kept Peter Gabriel and his merits, at least, in the postings. I am of the beleif that an induction is forthcoming; likely in the special acheivement process, or if not then a Performers category inductee for 2010. Yet, you could add other artists that exceeded in video production to add as a special acheivement format in later years. 10cc is a good example; as are the Cars, ABBA, Devo, the Eurythmics, Duran Duran, Bryan Ferry/Roxy Music, etc. it would seem an interesting induction process to include video music (not music videos)as an important form of induction.

In this regard, it is a better form of video music recognition than inducting the head executives of MTV. Considering what MTV is now, it may be for the best.

Attempting to figure out how to have Spinal Tap be included,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 10.26.08 @ 19:29pm


lax25, I have noticed you will comment on any subject just to bring up Peter Gabriel and Genesis. We all get it you really like them but it is getting old, especially this special induction ceremony you keep binging up. You should get together with Roy and have a love fest with him. He's in love with Bernie Taupin and you with Peter Gabriel. It is getting old reading your guys comments about the same thing over and over again.

Posted by Brian Snyder on Sunday, 10.26.08 @ 19:42pm


Back on that other board, I noted that the main creative force behind MTV was one Robert W. Pittman, who is actually a member of the Rock Hall board, so I think it won't be long seeing him inducted. Quite frankly, I think he deserves it -- for better or worse, he changed rock history. Can the seeming endless list of record execs who've been inducted claim any more influence than Pittman?

I put my non-performer vote in for Lester Bangs, but I expect it will go to the recently deceased Norman Whitfield.

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 10.26.08 @ 23:02pm


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv4B24wYt6M

Little Anthony and the Imperials performing Starship's We Built This City.

Written by Bernie Taupin and Martin Page.

Posted by Roy on Monday, 10.27.08 @ 04:30am


LAX25 -

Now just know, I'm not trying to jump all over you on this here, but the Genesis thing has got to quit. They ARE a very good band, and YES they do have quite a vast # of hit recordings. This whole special dispensation thing is really going over-the-top though. This isn't the Academy Awards and there's no special Irving Thalberg award for lifetime acheivement. Remember, I have remained neutral on this for the majority of the life of this post. That being said, it's nice to know where the brown acid from Woodstock went.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Monday, 10.27.08 @ 05:21am


You know who is also not inducted in the non-performers category? Brian Epstein. You'd think with all the Beatle love in the Hall of Fame their manager would have been inducted a long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he would make it this year.

Posted by The_Claw on Monday, 10.27.08 @ 07:48am


I "STILL" am amazed that the great Deep Purple and/or Ritchie Blackmore are being ignored.... they are forerunners to all the metal/hard rock bands that ever followed.

Posted by kenn on Monday, 10.27.08 @ 16:39pm


While my posts and comments regarding Peter Gabriel and the likely induction for him and perhaps Genesis within the coming induction (or the next one after) may seem quite the nuisance with just a tad bit outlandish; it is not without merit and idealistic knowledge. In other postings, we have seen the lobbying for the Miracles on their own, Journey, Bernie Taupin, Robert Pittman in lieu of MTV, Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, Rush, and others. Pretty much, every poster has at least one artists or producer that they would like to see inducted. In the aforementioned artists listed, I disagree with inducting the Miracles on their own, and I am rather reticent of inducting Robert Pittman (though I am open to the matter.)

For myself, the artist I have lobbied for is, yes, Peter Gabriel; and also Genesis, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks. Indeed, I have other artists that I lobby for: The Eurythmics come to mind easily. As well, another British act comes very much in my mind that perhaps I shall now address.

The act in question is XTC. XTC, while not really ever having hit songs in the United States, have managed to become one of the better lyrically gifted acts of the past 30 years. Their crafty works, notably that of Andy Partridge, evoke a format of artier pop that clearly takes influence from the Beatles, the Beach Boys, and others. In my opinion, XTC had more of a legitimate claim to being the spiritual heirs to the Beatles than did Electric Light Orchestra in their productive years following the departure of Roy Wood.

In a series of unfortunate events, the impact that XTC should have has not been fruitfully presented to an audience the size of the Beatles. Andy Partridge, for instance, rarely leaves England. His literally spastic stage fright brought any and all touring of XTC to cease by 1982, the year in which they had their biggest album success in the UK with "English Settlement". Partridge's creative output was not always given the full support of the record label, Virgin. In fact, XTC went "on strike" for about seven years after the recording of "Nonsuch" in 1992. Even when returning, the added instrumental output that David Gregory brought forth was no longer there. And now it seems that XTC is no longer; possibly due to a rather irreperable schism between Andy Partridge and Colin Moulding, a fellow singer-songwriter and bassist.

What is left, and what is best, is the songs and albums that make up XTC. I, to let it be known, have quite a number of their albums in my collection. Were I ever to be a member of the RRHOF Nominating Committee, XTC would be amongst the leading artists to be considered for induction in the Performers Category. Yet, unlike the Peter Gabriel matter in which we know an induction is likely forthcoming given his worldwide notice and influence; it can be rather taxing to explain XTC to some person that is not aware of the band. Honestly, I would not be surprised to learn that at least one of the Nominating Committee has not heard of XTC, or Andy Partridge for that matter. To any of you fellow posters who have heard the works of XTC, what is your opinion on the matter?

Never having one taken brown acid,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 10.27.08 @ 18:50pm


Yeah man, XTC kicks (kicked) ass. Like Nick Drake, they're an act whose commercial viability (and induction chances...) have been damaged by their reluctance to tour.

Shame they split up.

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 10.28.08 @ 09:37am


OH MAN!! it's truely pittiful how many of you people state a complaint about an inductee, then you have some ridiculaus piece of what you believe to be "knowledge" about them, and it's correct at all!! If you are going to make such comments here find out the facts befor eyou make a fool of yourselves, man I have read some of the most ignorant remarks of some of the best nusicians!! someone ACTUALLY BELIVES ( LOL!!) that Jeff Beck was a SIDEMAN for Rod STEWART!!! OH I' thought I would die laughing... Please allow me to fix you major boo boo. Jeff Beck, yes as in "The Jeff Beck Group" after leaving The Yardbirds( had a huge influence on the foundation of rock music, even today, so much so he was the appex of that band. establishing himself on an international level as the best guitarist to come out of rock and roll at that time and just kept gaining respect for his dedication to the ART of music and NOT to be a sell out!) Took a unknow singer named Rod Stewart and asked him if he wan't to be" his singer" in Jeff's band. Yes Jeff Beck brought Rod to The USA,in 68' as his singer.
Rod was so shy, that he would sing behind the drums. Jeff had to explain to the audience this, and then say Rod, I think you can show your face now , they like us....uh huh... ok, there now. Jeff again asked Rod, reluctantly to do a song on his record in 85'( after Jeff saw Rod singiong "Do ya think I'm sexy" in PINK stretchy
pants, said," Ican't imagine the expression that was on my face at the time...only that I truned around and walked out, and said oh, man Rod is singing disco?? Jeff knew then and there Rod SOLDOUT BIG time... and has no plans to perform with him in the future, but respects his history.
I had a wonderful conversation with Jeff Beck in bristol after seeing his show, I understand why Jeff Beck is as he is,in respect to commercial radio, it's sucks!! Jeff has such a loyal fan base that he doesn't need air play to have a full house,he sold out all his show last trip to the states. You people need to get you heads out of the top 40 long and boring $$$$ list.. it's sucks ..
you thing someone is so hot because they can play scales really fast!! OH wow!! LOL!! I think it's wise to stop making comment about people who are actually MUSCIANS, they are SO FAR MORE intellegent then you can even understand.. you guys stick to rock stars, know for their antics,
because when you only know 3 chords...well it gets really boring to hear the same tunes till my figin ears bleed!!! they are SO BORING!@!!The original influences in RR, go back to the BLUES, this is OUR ONLY ORIGINAL ART!!! OK RRHOF!! SO GIVE THE ARTIST WHO PRESERVE IT AND really create music, not do it to a formula!! Jeff Beck, true artist.. the man plays without any special affects and Jimi played the star spangled banner after hearing Jeff Play it in 67!!! See jeff beck in concert, listen and learn!!!

Posted by summer on Saturday, 11.1.08 @ 02:25am


Time to pass on the Rappers. 20 years from now nobody will care. Few care now! The hall is for Rock and Roll. If you want might I suggest a Rap Hall of Fame, but keep them out of the Rock Hall. It is time to recognize the Grass Roots and Herman's Hermits!

Posted by Ivan Cryptosis on Monday, 11.3.08 @ 18:31pm


2009 is a very weak class. Only one legitimate Hall of Famer. Metallica.

Posted by Ivan Cryptosis on Monday, 11.3.08 @ 18:38pm


Ivan, it does not need to appear that weak. Metallica is certain to go in; I also pick Iggy Pop/The Stooges, Jeff Beck, Chic, and Wanda Jackson as the other four inductees in the performers category. Honestly, I would have also chosen Bobby Womack for a sixth inductee. I do have some reservations regarding Run-DMC, War, and Little Anthony and the Imperials. The latter three groups did not have any form of individual presence, in my opinion.

I, admittedly, cannot say for certain who will be the inductees in the non-performer and sidemen categories. I do hold a firm belief that a special acheivement induction process is in the works for, shall we say, overlooked artists in both a group and individual format. And, yes, I am of the belief that Peter Gabriel is going to be inducted in some form this 2009 induction process, likely alongside Steve Hackett and Tony Banks as both Genesis and for their solo ventures in that special acheivement process of induction.

By the way, Ivan, rap is an important form of modern popular music. As I mentioned before, I have reservations regarding Run-DMC; yet it will be no suprise if they are inducted. In the coming years, we are going to be debating the merits of Public Enemy, Tupac Shakur, Dr. Dre, Sean Combs, Queen Latifah (yes, she did great rap tracks early in her career), Eminem, Mos Def, Nas, among others. We all need to get accustomed to this: rap is, by all means, the new rhythm and blues. Think of it this way: legendary rappers of importance will be considered; not novelty based acts like the Fat Boys or those "Wait for the Beep" tape 80s rappers.

Regarding Herman's Hermits, I do agree with your assertion to consider Peter Noone and co. We need to at the foremost convince the Nominating Committee to look beyond "I'm Henery the Eighth, I am" and "Mrs. Brown, You've got a Lovely Daughter". The same goes for the Grass Roots. A fine band that managed to sound psychedelic and r&b driven in different intervals, at times even in the same song. They also had one of the better "peace now" songs in "Live for Today".

Waiting to hear "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" in 5.1,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 11.5.08 @ 18:22pm


Lax25...I think your head would blow up if you couldn't fit Genesis & Co. into one of your comments. Quite frankly, even though I think they're a good group, I think they're standing in a very long line. Don't look for them or any of their members to be inducted for a very long time.

As for Peter Gabriel, some of his solo stuff is pretty good ("Shock The Monkey" is my personal favorite), but I don't see where he really entered any sort of uncharted territory, and if someone in rock is going to be inducted for humanitarian reasons, Bob Geldof would most certainly far and away head that list.

Neither you, or I, or anyone else can possibly guess what this group of people are going to do in the induction process, but don't hold your breath for Genesis or any of them singularly...sorry!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 11.5.08 @ 18:44pm


Top 10 Guitarist's:
10.Eric Johnson
9.Buckethead
8. Jeff Beck
7. Joe Perry
5. Slash
4. Angus Young
3. Jimi Hendrix
2. Jimmy Page
1. David Gilmour




------------------------------------------------

I put Jimi Hendrix at number three because Jimi only played for mabye 6 years and he was a little sloppy in his carrer. Who knows how he would play past 1970?

Posted by Mike on Friday, 11.7.08 @ 06:50am


Thank's for the list, Mike. I did hear about this guy, Duane somebody...Allstate? No, that isn't it. All-somebody or the other who was supposed to be pretty good.

Maybe that Marvel comics supervillian 'Buckethead' might have heard of him...

Posted by Paul in KY on Friday, 11.7.08 @ 11:52am


Here's some predictive thermometers for the inductees...

RateItAll List - Deserving Of The Rock Hall?

#38 - Jeff Beck
#41 - Stooges
#62 - Metallica
#103 - War
#110 - Run DMC
--------------------------------------
#159 - Little Anthony & The Imperials
#267 - Chic
#372 - Wanda Jackson
#397 - Bobby Womack


Facebook - iLike Fans

Metallica - 1,362,741
Run-D.M.C. - 122,535
Stooges - 35,556
War - 22,209
Jeff Beck - 19,208
------------------------------------
Bobby Womack - 7,451
Chic - 7,212
Wanda Jackson - 2,621
Little Anthony & The Imperials - 776

Same five both times...

Posted by Casper on Friday, 11.7.08 @ 15:12pm


METALLICA IS THE MOST OVER-RATED GROUP OUT THERE.........

Posted by ROBERT on Friday, 11.7.08 @ 15:33pm


Casper, with respect, those "predictive thermometers" you got seem a little lame. Going by your lists the nominees run as follows:
RateItAll has Beck 1st / Facebook has Beck 5th.
RateItAll has Run DMC 5th / Facebook has them 2nd.
There is great inconsistency. My guess is RateItAll has older voters (like me) than does Facebook. If you want a good thermometer just look at this (Future Rock Hall) website. It's pretty good. And they actually take measures to prevent repetetive voting.

I don't see where you have any other posts, so I hope I addressed your concerns.

Posted by Telarock on Friday, 11.7.08 @ 15:39pm


Mike -

Who's #6? Take a look at your list again.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 11.7.08 @ 15:58pm


Okay, I just scrolled and thru this whole discussion scan reading it. Now feel I must address you LAX. Indeed you have taken up probably about 1/4 (estimate) of this discussion about "2009 Nominees" with your thesis:
"I am of the belief that P---- G------ is going to be inducted ... in that special acheivement process of induction."
I didn't spell out the name cause I actually am tired of looking at it. Ever heard of too much of a good thing? Every one of your many posts trots out this strange thesis of yours, which several people have debunked, but you persist.
Who am I, read my posts, certainly no genius either. But you do seem intelligent, you write very well. Yet you suck up to Jann Wenner with your letters and you push P.G. til his name is spread like diarhea all over the place for this cockamamey special induction you dreamed up. I'm sorry, but it's become quite annoying. There are right now 9 candidates out there to be voted upon. How bout redirecting your considerable energy to someone that is already nominated. C'mon dude?

Posted by Telarock on Friday, 11.7.08 @ 16:31pm


Telarock, the point is that the five at the top were far outclassing the people at the bottom in terms of popularity. Also, the five at the top here, at iLike, and on the RateItAll List are the EXACT same five. In other words, if those five end up being the inductees, we can at least say that the voters went along with what the public at large liked.

However, let's be honest with ourselves, the Hall of Fame electorate is far, far older than most of the voters on these others sites. The average age of a Hall voter is at least 50, if not older. That helps boost any acts from the 60's/70's and hurt any from later on. Also, anybody that didn't listen to an underground act like the Stooges or Patti Smith isn't suddenly going to "get them" when they're simultaneously getting senior discounts, if you know what I mean...."What's all that racket?"

Posted by Casper on Saturday, 11.8.08 @ 05:18am


the point is that the five at the top were far outclassing the people at the bottom in terms of popularity. Also, the five at the top here, at iLike, and on the RateItAll List are the EXACT same five. In other words, if those five end up being the inductees, we can at least say that the voters went along with what the public at large liked.

However, let's be honest with ourselves, the Hall of Fame electorate is far, far older than most of the voters on these others sites. The average age of a Hall voter is at least 50, if not older. That helps boost any acts from the 60's/70's and hurt any from later on. Also, anybody that didn't listen to an underground act like the Stooges or Patti Smith isn't suddenly going to "get them" when they're simultaneously getting senior discounts, if you know what I mean...."What's all that racket?"

Posted by Casper on Saturday, 11.8.08 @ 05:18am
--------------------------------------------------
We would be seeing a real rarity if they do vote this way. The public & the Hall agreeing on something...

There has to be an overthrow of the Hall voters. Get some fresh blood in there to shake things up.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 11.8.08 @ 06:19am


I was reading some of the comments, and this may have been brought up, but I was shocked that they managed to ignore Sonic Youth AND Television AND The Replacements AND The Smiths AND (perhaps worst of all) Deep Purple again! One of those artists should have been nominated. I would venture to say that all of them contributed to the perpetuation of rock music more than, say, War. I also agree that SRV probably should have been nominated, but I can see the logic in inducting Jeff Beck first.

The Stooges obviously should have been inducted years and years ago, and Run-DMC truly deserves the nomination. Metallica should definately get in but, given the wealth of earlier and equally deserving artists, can wait a few years. Already mentioned Jeff Beck. As for the rest, they really should not be getting in over some greatly more deserving artists. How many mediocre Doo-Wop groups does The Hall need anyway???

Posted by ArtRock on Saturday, 11.8.08 @ 17:06pm


Telarock, there are indeed 9 candidates for induction in the Performers Category for the Class of 2009. As you may be aware, I have advocated the induction of six of them, most notably Chic. yet I have also advocated Metallica, Iggy Pop/the Stooges, Wanda Jackson, Jeff Beck, and even Bobby Womack. Regarding Womack, an induction this time out is not entirely likely; the five aforementioned are, I think, the likely inductees.

I have also advocated for the inductions of Yusuf Islam a.k.a Cat Stevens, The Eurythmics, and Donna Summer as my initial picks for induction in 2009 alongside Chic and, yes, Peter Gabriel. I am of the opinion that the three first mentioned will be inducted in the Class of 2010; I am aware that the Nominating Committee might just wait to induct Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart together and alone, thus an induction of the Eurythmics may be a while.

By the by, those artists mentioned are well known worldwide to merit an induction without batting an eye. There have been many other acts advocated in these posts that fans of their music are aware of, yet not the casual listener. Nick Drake comes to mind, easily. XTC, among still alive artists, spring to attention. Even more left-field are legendary acts such as The Residents in which we do not even know whom they are!

Now, in all fairness, we are not aware of the ins and outs that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation will do in their processes to induct highly important artists, producers, and writers. Yet, fluctuations have occured on a semi-regular basis. Thus, a special acheivement format of inducting, say, artists that were also producers, humanitarians, and even one of a number of fellow bandmates that had individual merits added to the first band format. Many artists not yet inducted fit this bill: Todd Rundgren, Brian Eno, Daniel Lanois, Robert Fripp, The Residents, Norman Witfield (posthumous), any of the Mahavishnu Orchestra not named John McLaughlin, etc.

What I am imferring and implying, given that he was named amongst Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the World, a likely Best Song Academy Award Nomination regarding his work on Wall-E, the continued humaitarian aspects, and even a highly anticipated restored cataloging of his early works, the one inductee to start off this format of special acheivement inductions should it be fully realized, is Peter Gabriel. I would also add Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and the full band Genesis at once to cover all fronts and branches of the tree. I have mentioned that Gabriel, if a special acheivement or even non-performer induction does not occur for some reason in the Class of 2009, then Gabriel will be a likely inductee in 2010 in the Performers Category.

To make a note, I am of the opinion that letting the RRHOF and Jann Wenner know full-hand of these possibilities through e-mails at the very least brings an idea into a consideration of some form. Even if it could be rejected, the idea has been presented. One may as well let Wenner know and be aware of these ideas than to keep it to yourself.

Just who are the Residents?,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 11.9.08 @ 18:12pm


TO LAX,

I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO SHUT THE HELL UP! YOU EITHER DON'T KNOW HOW THE ROCK HALL WORKS, OR YOU ARE JUST BEING AN ASSHOLE!

Genesis, Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins will each be inducted into The Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame in the Performers Category, like every other performer from the 60s, 70s. They are not early influence, they are not sidemen, they are not non-performers, and they are not getting a lifetime achievement or special award from the Rock Hall. The other members of Genesis are not going to be nominated or inducted into the Rock Hall for their solo works because it's not neccesary. They didn't do much, and their solo work is not remembered by the masses.

Once again, Genesis, Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins will each be inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame in the performers category. That's it! No one else! No other category!

SHUT THE HELL UP!

Posted by RAKER on Sunday, 11.9.08 @ 19:23pm


Raker, you might possibly be correct. I am just not certain.

I disagree with you, however, on inducting Phil Collins on his own. I know there was some noted songs including "In the Air Tonight", and that Collins has sold over 100 million records on his own. Yet, outside of Genesis, Phil Collins did not make innovative recordings or even long-lasting impacts in his field. Frankly, I think Collins was attempting to emulate his influences and fellow Genesis bandmates (including Peter Gabriel.) This as opposed to forging a newer path that would have been promising had Collins continued in the "Face Value" approach. As we know, his work became sappy when not being in genesis.

Here is an example and riddle. In 1985, phil Collins had a hit song that made the pop and dance charts with "Susudio". Three years earlier, Prince had a rather breakthrough hit with "1999." Which one is better?

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 11.10.08 @ 07:30am


SHUT THE HELL UP!
(Posted by RAKER on Sunday, 11.9.08 @ 19:23pm)

LAX, the above expresses my sentiments better than I ever could - just cause I'm too much of a gentleman to put it that way. You do understand that all caps is like SHOUTING don't you? Yet you go on and calmly reply to Raker by once again vomiting your foolishness about Picka Goober (whatever his name is?) which you've made your point 100x over. Not reading anymore of your posts, don't care anymore about Picka Goober. If he reads this, Picka Goober probably also wishes you would SHUT UP! Too bad you've become an embarrassment to him.
On a positive note, nice that you give Wanda Jackson at least some lip service. Given the numbers, I don't think it's likely she will get elected, but I also like her very much. She was super talented and highly regarded by both Elvises (Presley and Costello). She did rockabilly, but also rock and roll. I would love to see her get in.

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 11.10.08 @ 08:56am


RDp7Qq hi mebmasters

Posted by mebmasters on Monday, 11.10.08 @ 15:23pm


Terarock, you made a greater and more entertaining criticism of my inferences regarding the matter at hand. Raker just could not alter the rather bluntness. Humorous as well; Picka Goober:). As I mentioned, if not 2009, then 2010 will see an induction of Peter Gabriel, in the Performers Category. By the way, I doubt that PG even is paying any attention to this Hall of Fame thing, let alone being led to embarrasement by me. Heck, it is not even needed for an induction to validate an innovative life. It would be nice if it ever comes.

Sorry to mention this again,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 11.10.08 @ 16:50pm


Oh my god!!! I can't believe the greatest hard rock band of all times DEEP PURPLE is still not there... How come BS and LZ are there? Deep Purple kicks Zeppelin's ass so hard, it is not even funny! and where are the great Brittish rock bands like SLADE, URIAH HEEP, SWEET, YES???

Posted by Roman on Monday, 11.10.08 @ 23:04pm


If Deep Purple were so great then they would be there now. It's been mabye since 1991 so really Deep Purple doesn't. I don't see Deep Purple haveing Jimmy Page or Robert Plant in there band (or John Bonham or John Paul Jones).




-------------------------------------------------
Number Six would be Tony Lommi.

Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 11.11.08 @ 09:29am


Hey guys, here's something I wrote a month or so back on who and how I chose my picks for this year. Just wondering what you guys thought... Apologies for not removing the php tags.... too lazy.
-----------------------------------------
Stooges
Pros: Apart from being widely influential in punk rock, they're now in "practically guaranteed" territory. No act has been nominated 7 times and not eventually been inducted, even if it took an eighth or ninth nomination. This is their 7th nomination. Moreover, the 2007 induction ceremony ended with the inductees doing an impromptu jam of "I Wanna Be Your Dog," and Madonna has them performing in her place. This isn't Chubby Checker, Sonic Youth, or Heart complaining to reporters about their not being in... this is other high-profile artists taking up their cause.
Cons: Really none. Only thing is maybe since Black Sabbath had to wait an eighth time, the Stooges should too.
In the end: No Stooges song ever made any of the Billboard singles charts, but with the Sex Pistols and Leonard Cohen getting in recently and given the competition in the field, and everything else, the pendulum's swinging too hard in their favor for them to miss out this year. I place their odds of making it this year at 90%

Metallica
Pros: Widely recognized as one of the groups that really gave heavy metal wheels in the mainstream market. Quite possibly the most influential act on this year's ballot
Cons: Napster. Everyone felt Metallica was a symbol of anti-establismentarianism, and Lars and co. proved that they were a happy part of the corporate machine.
In the end: Their influence reaches way too far, and this isn't exactly the strongest-looking ballot we've seen in the past few years. I place them as a pretty likely pick. Odds: 80%

Jeff Beck
Pros: Guitar legend. With the Yardbirds, and the other two revered guitarists/members of the Yardbirds have been inducted twice in some form or another. He also has at least one, maybe more, song inducted in the Hall already. About time to put the artist in himself?
Cons: How much innovation and influence did his solo stuff actually have? Some, yeah, but he kind of pales in his own shadow.
In the end: He's still a rocker, and when you look at each year's class, there's a disputable name in the list, but for the most part, those listed WERE rock 'n' roll at one point or another, and he was consistently so. Odds: 75%

Run-D.M.C.
Pros: Really helped make rap mainstream. Also, most Rock Hall purists don't mind this rap group, since they actually teamed up with Steve and Joe from Aerosmith. A lot of us still have fond memories of that video they made back in the 80's. Their contributions were germane to the perpetuation of rock and most recognize that. On top of that, the nominating committee were smart enough not to split the ballot this year between two rap acts. They tried that last year with the Beastie Boys and Afrika Bambaataa, and they both fell short.
Cons: They weren't actually "rock 'n' roll." And you still come across the people who say "This isn't the Rap Hall of Fame!! BOO!" Also, when Grandmaster Flash And The Furious Five got in, it was under a cloud of suspicion involving vote tampering, and had it not been for that, some say there STILL would be no rap group in the Hall. So, can a rap group get in completely cleanly?
In the end: If there's going to be a token rap group in the Hall, more people would name these guys than any others, including the already inducted Flash And the Five. I think these guys are in the house this year. Odds: 66.7%

Chic
Pros: Crackerjack producers fronting, backing and overall making this band, and Niles Rodgers is revered as a blueprint-laying funk guitarist. He was also on the original nominating committee back in 1985. Also this is nomination numero cinco for Chic. Only artists to get this many noms and not get in are fellow ballotmates the Stooges; King Curtis, who was later inducted as a Side-Man; and Chuck Willis, who's been forgotten since the 1989 ballot/1990 ceremonies.
Cons: With all that crackerjack talent, they couldn't come up with better songs than "Dance Dance Dance (Yowzah Yowzah Yowzah)" and "Le Freak"? I've heard it said that the real stuff they should be remembered for is album deep and came after the disco heyday. Well, unfortunately that doesn't save them from being filed as a throwaway disco act whose lyrics were slightly less intellectually insulting than the Ohio Players'. Also, this is a political thing, really. Most voters, I think, recognize that the current nominating committee is giving Niles the reacharound for having been on the committe in the past.
In the end: I think they stand a chance to get in if for no other reason than to keep from seeing their name reappear every darn year, so they can finally get to some real rock acts. Maybe not. It's more about honoring Rodgers and Edwards than Chic as a whole. There's just as much that they DO deserve induction for as there is that says they DON'T deserve induction. Mathematically, that makes it an even split with odds at 50%.

Little Anthony And The Imperials
Pros: 2005's induction of the Ronnettes and 2008's inductions of the Ventures and the Dave Clark Five proves that the voters want their 60's acts. They probably want their 50's acts too. Also, the Dominoes and the Five Royales are the only nominated doo-wop groups to not be inducted yet. Also, a fairly influential R&B/vocal group with more commercial success than just about any other 50's R&B/vocal group that has been inducted.
Cons: Almost no doo-wop group has made it on their first nomination. The Dells took two, Moonglows and Flamingos needed five, and Frankie Lymon And The Teenagers needed a wopping eight. Also, of all the 50's R&B groups to make the ballot, these are by far the most white pop-sounding. "Tears On My Pillow" and "Take Me Back" are great songs, but hardly the most convincing examples of rock 'n' roll cred. Their true R&B remains largely obscured, though sometimes that actually works in their favor.
In the end: The fact that they're from the 50's weighs pretty well in their favor. Last year, my #6 pick ended up making it, making me 4/5. They're the likely upset special, but I just don't think this'll be their year. Odds: 45%

War
Pros: Cool funk. Memorable classics like "Low Rider," "The Cisco Kid," and "Why Can't We Be Friends" are all pleasers that make them likely candidates.
Cons: Santana's already in. Can another Latin group make it? Also, innovation and influence are considered somewhat questionable. Plus, in comparison to other artists, and the politics of the Hall, they may just not make it.
In the end: I want to see them make it, but it may not happen. Still, there's a good chance for them to be the upset as well. So, I'll put them at odds of 40%.

Wanda Jackson
Pros: The only female on this year's ballot, unless you count the female singers of Chic, and the Rock Hall people like to be PC. She's also revered as the female Elvis, possibly being the first white female rocker. Furthermore, she's got Elvis Costello and Bruce Springsteen in her corner, so those voters who really revere them might just vote for her.
Cons: There've been about five years so far without having any female Performer inductees, so it's not like it couldn't happen. Also, generally regarded more as country than rock'n'roll. She didn't manage to stay rock'n'roll while doing her country thing.
In the end: She was nominated in 2005 and lost out to Percy Sledge. This being only her second appearance on the ballot, I daresay it won't be her last. Odds: 33.3%

Bobby Womack
Pros: You could induct him as a Performer, a Non-Performer, or a Side-Man. Truly versatile talent. Smooth soul. One of the last great soul singers before soul became this neo-soul type stuff.
Cons: The fact that he IS one of the last great true soul singers kinda hurts him in the influence category, as well as the innovation category. Plus, there are other great soul artists before him still waiting.
In the end: I don't see it happening. It's been awhile since they inducted any soul artists, so that could go either way, but with the continual push to get both Chic and more rap acts in the Hall, and the other three picks being the real rockers on this year's ballot, Bobby Womack's gonna get screwed this year. Odds: 30%

I've seen this year's ballot called weak. Honestly, other than Chic and maybe Wanda Jackson, I don't see an act on here I don't want to get in. Which again, shows the real need here: we need to put the number of inductees per year back up to at least eight.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 09:07am


Philip...that's the wild thing about Chic...from a player's point of view the guitar hooks in those songs weren't easy to play. The saying goes "to be a good lead player, you have to be a good rhythm player"...learning those hooks would definitely put you on the track to be a good rhythm player. That being said, the problem with those songs were the lyrics. They were geared toward what was popular at the time...namely disco. So, they will forever be associated with disco...period. A lot of other very talented artists have that same problem, but they're not up for induction.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 11.15.08 @ 09:22am


"There've been about five years so far without having any female Performer inductees, so it's not like it couldn't happen."

Uh... what? Maybe you meant the reverse.

"whose lyrics were slightly less intellectually insulting than the Ohio Players'."

That's a really petty and useless criticism.

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 11.16.08 @ 23:47pm


Been gone for six weeks and I see LAX was still at it with his Genesis special induction....

Went on a six week tour of the southwest, pacific, and northwest.... My band kicked ass and rocked.

Anyhow Stooges, Metallica,Jeff Beck,Little Anthony & the Imperials,Bobby Womack my choices. Whatever happenes happens.

All I know is no special inductions for other performers. Hey a month or so ago LAX you asked what it would take for me to consider Peter Gabriel or Genesis to become Legends....

Well Here' is my answer, sorry it's late in coming----

Let's see has Peter Gabriel or Genesis had 20 number ones like the Beatles,

Do they compare with Bands Like The Rolling Stones, Beach Boys, The Who, CCR, Doors, Led Zeppelin, Eagles,Sabbath etc.

Have they had an Album in the Top one Hundred for five years or more like Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd...

Have they revelutionized Guitar Like Chuck Berry in the Fifties, Jimi Hendrix in the sixties, Eric Clapton in the sixties and seventies and Eddie Van Halen in the eighties.

Is the Songwriting Skills of Peter Gariel or any other member of Genesis,close to Dylan, Lennon, Elton,Simon,Springsteen etc.

What singing voice does Genesis have to compare to Elvis, Aretha, Marvin, BB King, Freddie Mercury of Queen, Harmonies of the Beach Boys, Eagles, Beatles,etc.

Until they get in that's when they become legends in my mind.

Now honestly the Rockhall has missed the boat on some legends
---example STEVIE RAY VAUGHAN this year---
Need I say More

Posted by Stan on Monday, 11.17.08 @ 20:34pm


Hey Raker!!!! As much as I agree with you, I'd keep it cool man---LAX and his thoughts on Peter Gabriel and Genesis are his and not mine or yours but let's at least keep it cool--We can disagree with out telling people to shut up or name calling!!!!

Posted by Stan on Monday, 11.17.08 @ 21:06pm


Welcome back, Stan.

Well, let me attempt to give you a pojnt-by-point response to your qualifications regarding a likely induction for Peter Gabriel and also Genesis (including the solo works of Steve Hackett and Tony Banks.)

Genesis had a number one album with "Invisible Touch", and a number one song in "Invisible Touch." Peter Gabriel the next week had a number one song in "Sledgehammer", and I beleive had a number one album in "So." That totals two number ones, not counting the several number ones Phil Collins had on his own. Thus, it was not 20 number ones; yet, a number one is a number one.

Of the bands listed on your second question, each of them are pretty darned unique. So too are Peter Gabriel, and even Genesis. If I were to compare them on perhaps a sonic innovative process in the craft of conceptual writing, I would think there would be similarities with the Who, and the Beach Boys. Again, it is not similar: yet, the Who had "Tommy", "Who's Next", and "Quadrophenia"; The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson had "Pet Sounds" and "Smile"; and Genesis had "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway", followed by subsequent albums from Gabriel, Hackett, and Banks which were not concept plots, but more thematic similarities.

Neither Peter Gabriel nor Genesis had a top 100 album on the charts for five years. I do think Phil Collins had one with "No Jacket Required", yet that is Phil Collins on his own. Though not in the exact question, Peter Gabriel's "So", and Genesis' "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" are often listed amongst the top 100 albums of all time.

You know what is interesting: Steve Hackett when he was with Genesis actually did influence guitar playing. It was Hackett that innovated the tapping technique well prior to Eddie Van Halen; "Firth of Fifth", and on his own "Everyday" are clear examples. As well, Hackett's playing alternated between classical romanticism using acoustic guitars, such as "Horizons", and thrasing electric soundscapes that, at least with Genesis, provided a counterbalance with Mike Rutherford's then twelve-string gentleness. There was also frequently a rather emotional playing that Hackett brought forth, nominally in occurance with Tony Banks' rather stately and ceremonial keyboard playing. "Ripples", off from "a Trick of the Tail", is a clear example.

The songwriting skills of Peter Gabriel are, in fact, quite similar to biting lyrical writing that John Lennon had. While I do not think he had a similar format that, say, Bob Dylan or Sir Elton John have, Gabriel does have a form of writing that appears abstract, yet full. Steve Hackett and Tony Banks were no slouches either: Banks, to note, has been a great storyteller in his lyrics, even if the premise is rather routine. Hackett, granted, had more of a songwriting impact on his own individual works.

Regarding the singing voices, of those listed, each of them has had a unique vocal approach. Peter Gabriel's vocal approach, which is rather deeply sensitive with a bit of falsetto, is unique. I will be honest that of the five people in the classic line-up of Genesis, Phil Collins had the best trained and adaptable voice. That is out of the four (including Steve Hackett and Tony Banks) that I have heard sing lead on individual and group works. Admittedly, I could never detect Mike Rutherford's singing approach; he does have a unique and deep speaking approach. To be rather blunt, many of the artists you mentioned, Stan, would not be considered trained singers that would become, for the most part, the next Idol. It was rather fortunate that their talents were fit and adaptable to the times given.

It is very likely that I have convinced you, Stan. Nor have I possibly convinced other posters. Yet, it is the ideals and facts given.

By the by, I am in agreeance in that Metallica, Jeff Beck, and Iggy Pop/The Stooges will be inducted in the Performers Category. My added two inductees are Chic and Wanda Jackson, and if we could have six, then Bobby Womack would be inducted as well. I have to say that Little Anthony and the Imperials did not have an individuality or even full uniqueness. And, yes, I am still of the inference that Peter Gabriel and perhaps Genesis, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks, will be inducted in some form for special acheivement (or, a stretch, Non-Pefromer regarding Gabriel), in the Class of 2009. In the vent this does not occur, I will surmise that Peter Gabriel is inducted in the Class of 2010 in the Performers Category. In many different ways, the time is ripe for an induction to likely occur, given the amount of attention and productivity brought forth this year alone. Yet, as I have mentioned, it is not that necessary for a great artist to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It would be rather nice, though.

Correct in wanting an induction for SRV,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 11.19.08 @ 07:21am


LAX--Thanks for your comments, There is no doubt that Peter Gabriel and Genesis should be elected to the hall...They are a great band---

and to me,

Some groups and artists have got in that are less deserving....

To me the Hall of Fame is something strictly for legends....

I do not believe however, that they warrant a special achievement award---Especially since no other performers inducted have ever received special achievement awards.

At this time Genesis is a great band that has failed to make legendary status by not being inducted. Again unfortunately other groups and artists of lesser status in my eyes have been inducted.

This truly contradicts my theory and it undermines the works, the stature and the talents of the true legends that helped bring the hall of fame to fruition in the first place.

So again I love the music man and Genesis & Peter Gabriel with a long host of other artists do belong but the true question is when.

Stevie Ray was eligable this year and they over looked him..He Belongs---

Other artists and groups have been overlooked in years past----Including Genesis---The big question is why????? Chicago, Deep Purple, Jethro Tull, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Journey, Moody Blues, Yes, Electric Light Orchestra, Those are just a few and there are many more!!!!!Along With Genesis,

and Peter Gabriel----What About Neil Diamond, Smokey Robinson,Lionel Richie,Willie Nelson, Leon Russell, Tom Waits,----My God Where do the hall people come off with out inducting these folks... I hope I am clear!!! It has become a sham!!!!

Posted by Stan on Wednesday, 11.19.08 @ 21:20pm


Lax25, since you don't think War will be inducted, I feel good about their chances.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 07:02am


FYI, Stan.... Smokey Robinson has been inducted.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 15:59pm


This has become absurdly rediculous: the omission yet another year of
Donna Summer,Heart,Linda Ronstadt,Deep Purple and Cher

and by this point we should also have
Alice Cooper,the Cars,Doobie Brothers,
Pat Benatar,and Chicago

so many hundreds of others above those they've been including.

Posted by deran on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 17:58pm


Hey Raker!!!! As much as I agree with you, I'd keep it cool man---LAX and his thoughts on (Picka Goober) are his and not mine or yours but let's at least keep it cool--We can disagree with out telling people to shut up or name calling!!!!

(Posted by Stan on Monday, 11.17.08 @ 21:06pm)
----------------------------------------------------

Stan, I don't know Raker, and don't know about anything else Raker may have ever posted. But when he writes to Lax "SHUT UP!" he is ON point. Lax has become obnoxious and he has ruined this discussion by mucking it all up with his ad nauseum nonsense about Picka Goober. (I dont want to even see that name anymore.) Yea, we're all gentlemen here - but only up to a point!

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 20:02pm


And btw, it isn't just me and Raker, several other regular people have in their own words told Lax to SHUT UP!

Posted by Telarock on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 20:06pm


No Problem guys I haven't been around in awhile so I haven't got a taste of it like you guys have,

I'll keep my ears open, Yeah in the early fall I remember him harping on that odd idea,of special induction, But as I said before I haven't had the ear full like the rest of you guys----

However I'll read and respond appropriately---Depending on content---It all is so trivial and laughable!!!!!!

Posted by Stan on Friday, 11.21.08 @ 18:52pm


I have to say that Little Anthony and the Imperials did not have an individuality or even full uniqueness."

Well, Lax, all I have to say is ... if Little Anthony & The Imperials weren't unique, then why are they one of the very few Doo-Wop groups that successfully survived that music and era...and continue to chart well into the sixties and seventies.
Appearently they are a good group that HAS achieved legendary status !!

Posted by Bill G. on Saturday, 11.22.08 @ 00:51am


"I have to say that Little Anthony and the Imperials did not have an individuality"--Lax.

Yeah, Lax, that's why they'd be inducted as a GROUP, not just Little Anthony by himself.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 11.22.08 @ 01:49am


This has become absurdly rediculous: the omission yet another year of: Donna Summer,Heart,Linda Ronstadt,Deep Purple and Cher
(Posted by deran on Thursday, 11.20.08 @ 17:58pm)
===========================================================
deran, Donna Summer was at least nominated last year (2007) - and she did get to 'audition' for the RHOF crowd. But as you know, she did not get voted in by the 500(?) or so artists, writers and historians. So the nominating committee DID do their part (at least as far as yor concerned).
Hard to understand how they would then go ahead and vote in the material girl this past year, having denied Summer the year before? But I would expect to see Summer nominated again in near future, and she probably does get in. There is of course the stigma of "disco", but I think she's gotten past/overcome that.

BTW: for anyone who frequents this site, yor "by this point we should also have" list of 5 is amuzingly short. I strongly agree with your last 2.

Posted by Telarock on Saturday, 11.22.08 @ 11:20am


I still can't believe Iron Maiden aren't in. Its an insult to what music stands for. If they want influence, Maiden not only influenced many of the hardcore, death and black metal bands of today (some genres that are ignored by the hall of fame), they also inspired bands like Metallica, who did make the ballot this year. I still think Metallica deserve it, and that the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame made a good desicion on that, but great bands like Maiden and Priest are still left out.

Posted by Thamior on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 13:26pm


I still can't believe Iron Maiden aren't in. Its an insult to what music stands for. If they want influence, Maiden not only influenced many of the hardcore, death and black metal bands of today (some genres that are ignored by the hall of fame), they also inspired bands like Metallica, who did make the ballot this year. I still think Metallica deserve it, and that the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame made a good desicion on that, but great bands like Maiden and Priest are still left out.

Posted by Thamior on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 13:26pm


I THING BOBBY WOMACK IS ONE MAN ROCK&ROLL SOULDED FORGET.

Posted by LEROY OWENS SR on Tuesday, 11.25.08 @ 11:40am


XZyVTV himamaster hi

Posted by himamaster on Tuesday, 11.25.08 @ 23:57pm


No way Bobby Womack should NOT get in. Enough of this CHIC and RUN DMC. They were good acts but they were not super influential. There were many disco acts like CHIC and except for Walk This Way, Run was another of many.

Now Bobby Womack. That is a true R&R story. Packed up and went to LA as a kid in the 50's. Latched on with Sam Cooke and played or wrote for Hendrix, Elvis, Rolling Stones, etc. HE wrote Hits, played on hits and peformed hits. He has had to play to a Soul audience to make a living but his is more R&R than any of the Soul singers like Pendergrass, Hathaway etc. Also, something should be said for those that have outlived everyone and are still performing as he is. He is just so old that he is not as popular.

Posted by Lary L on Wednesday, 11.26.08 @ 06:25am


Where the F(*^ is Rush? This hall of fame is a joke.

Posted by Shug on Saturday, 11.29.08 @ 07:57am



Dude, Rush probably won't get in. I like Rush, but the thing is, Rock and Roll HOF and Rock critics like to skip the whole "Prog Movement" in the 70's. It didn't really add up to anything, and they like to chain things together. Pink Floyd is really the only one who they inducted that came from that movement. Rush and Yes should both probably get in, they were both innovative enough. They won't though, not until the Rock Hall decides to accept the Prog Movement as actually happening.

Posted by Calzone on Sunday, 11.30.08 @ 10:09am


I believe that this is a decent group with Beck Metallica DMC but next year I would love to see Stevie Ray Vaughan on the ticket!

Posted by evilcraft on Thursday, 12.4.08 @ 23:58pm


Top 5 Nomminies of 2009


1. Metallica
2. Jeff Beck
3. The Stooges
4. War
5. Run DMC

Posted by Mike on Sunday, 12.7.08 @ 12:03pm


War crossed boundaries and are still influential today, esp in the Latino community. That's why they should be let in.

Posted by Dave on Saturday, 12.20.08 @ 12:41pm


I would like to see War to get in. Theme song to George Lopez show - should be a giant boost.

Posted by Telarock on Saturday, 12.20.08 @ 12:49pm


FYC: Wolfman Jack for Non-performer category

Posted by steve on Friday, 12.26.08 @ 23:13pm


RHOF Should have Brian Ebstien and Colonel Parker

Posted by mrxyz on Thursday, 01.1.09 @ 20:14pm


I believe that there is a total lack of artists who helped to shape the 90's and indie sound of the 80's. I am not talking just about The Replacements, Husker Du and The Smiths ( My favorite band ); I am talking, to be more specific, about Big Star, one of the most underrated bands of all time. Ok, they had pretty bad luck when it came to success, but if my memory doesn't trick me, the had their discography in the 500 greatest albums acording to rolling stone and two songs ( September Gurls and Thirteen ) in the 500 greatest songs of all time.

Also, artists like R.E.M. , Elliott Smith, The Replacements ( they even wrote a song about its leader, Alex Chilton ), This Mortal Coil, Teenage Fanclub, Primal Scream and Matthew Sweet have named them their biggest influence.

In my humble opinion, they deserve to be there.

Posted by boggus on Friday, 01.2.09 @ 21:44pm


And... What about Randy Newman, Warren Zevon, George Jones, KRAFTWERK ( if they put rap artists, i dont know why the creators of electronic music aren't even considered ), Deep Purple, King Crimson, Rush ( Does Jann Wenner hates progressive rock that much ? ), Television, Tim Buckley, The Jam, Peter Gabriel ( even that i dont have the devotion of LAX about him, he is really a great artist and pioner in mixing genres like rock and pop with african and world music ) & Nick Drake Not being in the R&RHOF... but John Mellencamp is there...

I guess the world is really unfair

Posted by boggus on Friday, 01.2.09 @ 21:54pm


mrxyz, I gotta disagree about Epstein and Parker. I don't think they've actually inducted any managers for one thing. If Epstein had more than the Beatles (and I think Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas too), you could make an argument for him. Parker is just such a despicable human being who did as much harm to Elvis's career as he did help, that I never want to see him inducted.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 01.2.09 @ 23:59pm


So we know it'll be this month... I'm thinking tomorrow is when they'll announce it. I'll be sure to be paying attention to our News/Talk station.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 01.4.09 @ 04:25am


Will today be the day the inductees are announced?

Posted by Roy on Monday, 01.5.09 @ 08:07am


Metallica is nominated, but no Rush, no Yes, no King Crimson?

Come ON - who is buying these nominations!?!?!?!???

Posted by Mike M. on Tuesday, 01.6.09 @ 13:44pm


Rats. I was hoping that yesterday would have been the day. I was figuring as soon as possible, but guess we're gonna have to wait just a few days more.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 01.6.09 @ 15:16pm


I have returned. Did you miss me? (birds chirping...)

I suppose we all can expect the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation to announce the Class of 2009 at any time this month. Here, again, are my choices for the five inductees, plus a sixth if applicable.

Metallica: these artists are going to be inducted with perhaps the most amount of total votes. In a form of metal I am not too keen on, Metallica has been a noted exception. Unlike many fans of the band, I do happen to think of St. Angeras one of their better works, showing a greater industrial influence.

Iggy Pop/The Stooges: the perennial nominees are certain to be inducted this time out. It simply cannot be ignored any longer. As well, this induction I beleive includes the entirety of Iggy Pop's output, since there is more of Iggy's own materials than Stooges material as its own.

Jeff Beck: this is an induction that Beck will certainly accept. After a considerable amount of years, the entire Jeff Beck catalog will be inducted.

Chic: I initially picked them as inductees last summer, and I stand by my pick.

Wanda Jackson: to subvert Paul in KY's reaction to my reaction regarding War, it appears many are not giving much of a chance for Wanda Jackson to be inducted. Thus, I think she will be inducted.

If I had a sixth vote, it would be Bobby Womack. If not this time, Womack should be considered seriously within the next year.

I am aware that Run-DMC could be inducted; so might Little Anthony and the Imperials, and perhaps even War. I do not think the three acts will be inducted at this time. There was not any individuality within the acts.

I assume that Bernie Taupin will be considered for the Non-Performers category. I would also consider Quincy Jones.

And I beleive our months-long discussions regarding Peter Gabriel and his merits for induction have brought forth the attention of the RRHOF, and with good cause. It is my thoughts and beliefs that Gabriel will be inducted in some form of special acheivement award in the Class of 2009: so will Steve Hackett and Tony Banks for their individual works, and Genesis as a band in its main format. As I have mentioned, if not this time, then Peter Gabriel will certainly be inducted in the Performers Category by the end of this year.

Before I go, I must say I am shocked and saddened by the passing of Ron Asheton at the age of nearly 61. It was his guitar playing and songwriting approach that brought both the Stooges and later Iggy Pop's own records to a form of newer innovations, and dare I say, raw power, that formed the building blocks of punk and glam rock. My heartfelt condolonces go out to Ron's family and loved ones.

Now with a number to indicate my age next month (2/10)

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Wednesday, 01.7.09 @ 17:21pm


I got an email from the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Museum president, Terry Stewart.

Bernie Taupin has not received any sufficient support. Terry Stewart nominated him to be nominated and he did not get enough votes.

suhl@rockhall.org

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 01.7.09 @ 17:47pm


I would vote for Metalicca for the rock and roll hall of fame for 2009.
they are a superb band live, release fantastic albums, have excellent songs and are allround the best hard rock band to come from America.
I wish Thin Lizzy was elected one day they are always over looked.
Iron Maiden, and Metalicca are Thin lizzy fans

Posted by Rowan Campbell on Thursday, 01.8.09 @ 03:30am


I have returned. Did you miss me? (birds chirping...)

Now with a number to indicate my age next month (2/10)

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Wednesday, 01.7.09 @ 17:21pm
--------------------------------------------------
Your 210 years old?

Wow. No wonder you were always pushing for Genesis, you were there to see it.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 01.8.09 @ 05:54am


Once again, Lax25, the fact that you don't think War will be inducted makes me feel their chances are very good to be inducted.

Posted by Paul in KY on Thursday, 01.8.09 @ 08:08am


Lax26, since you are now 1 year older, you must also be a bit wiser. last I checked you were going on and on about a certain bloke getting a special induction to the R&RHOF. it is all over all your comments on this page. can we assume that you have already covered that topic, and will not go off on that all over again? Please?

Posted by benny on Thursday, 01.8.09 @ 11:47am


Benny - did you have to remind him?

Posted by Blah-blahblah on Thursday, 01.8.09 @ 13:17pm


have they announced it yet? how bout now? now? okay how bout now? any news? anyone? anyone?

Posted by MBI on Thursday, 01.8.09 @ 21:56pm


And for the third year in a row, one of the inductees has let it slip that he/she/they are one of the five!! First Van Halen, then Mellencamp (and the Ventures)... this year, Wanda Jackson!

Posted by Philip on Friday, 01.9.09 @ 15:37pm


Got a link to that story?

Posted by Philip on Friday, 01.9.09 @ 16:29pm


I just came on board this site, looking for proof The Moody Blues weren't in the R&R HOF, since I'd never looked before (I figured they were in long ago). From reading some of the comments and suggestions, it appears there needs to be a REAL Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, started by someone else, and that it only include REAL Rock and Rollers, beginning with the older "pioneer" groups and individuals, and including only those who make/made R&R, not "rap", "disco", and the like -- let them start their own HOF. We could almost start a really good one just with the artists that have not been recognized yet. Those of us who have been around since the beginning know who and what constitute real Rock and Roll!

Posted by Jeff on Friday, 01.9.09 @ 16:48pm


I was correct about Wanda Jackson! I beleive you owe me a contrition of some sorts, Paul in KY.

Indeed, four of the five were predicted correctly. Wanda Jackson was going to be inducted in large measure due to her influence in rockabilly and country-rock stylings. Iggy Pop/The Stooges were going in after being nominated many times over; I beleive this induction does include Iggy's own material, which there is more of that than just the Stooges. Jeff Beck was a virtual lock, and as mentioned before, will be an induction more to Beck's liking than his reticence of going in as a Yardbird. Chic were going in no matter the cost.

I will say, though, that I and many others thought that Metallica would be inducted this year. To be fair, Little Anthony and the Imperials certainly are well deserving of induction. Yet, there is a greater influx of songs and tours and recordings to be reminded about Metallica: heck, lyrically, James Hetfield's words and stylings are relatable than the team of writers Little Anthony and the Imperials have had over the years. And this is coming from a person that thinks highly of some of their hit songs: "Going Out of my Head" easily comes to mind.

I will say that a great many on this board figured Run-DMC to be inducted. I too am rather taken aback by the initial reluctance to induct the act. Regarding War, once yet again in response to Paul in KY, I was correct.

Now we will soon find out who gets inducted in the Non-Performer category. We do know it will not be Bernie Taupin, sad to say. As I mentioned before, I would consider Quincy Jones as a potential inductee in that category.

We will also see if the special acheivement induction process is taken place for the Class of 2009 that I have mentioned. Unless a full list is compiled, I am still of the thought that Peter Gabriel will be inducted in some form of special acheivement process, alongside Genesis both individually and collectively (emphasis on Gabriel, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks.) As I have said, if not this Class of 2009, then Peter Gabriel will be inducted in the Performers Category before the end of this year, in the Class of 2010.

At any rate, my congratulations go out to the five Performers category inductees, and whomever will be announced next. I do think I speak for many in my dismay that Metallica is not yet inducted.

Next Year RRHOF: Next year!

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Friday, 01.9.09 @ 17:53pm


If this is indeed correct, I'll be 3/5. I'm losing my touch, it would appear. Of course, I've found no story anywhere that says these are indeed the five. So I'm reserving further comment. Not saying SDTHDTH is leading us on, just that I'm not finding any story to back this up at all. I'd rather have something concrete.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 01.9.09 @ 18:06pm


I think that the Hall of Fame generally sucks. This is the best they could come up with. Jeff Beck deserves to enter. I am so pissed WHAT ABOUT WARREN ZEVON!!!. His friend Jackson Browne got in what about the Excitable Boy. Get with it Hall of Shame.

Posted by Rumi53 on Friday, 01.9.09 @ 23:30pm


Wanda Jackson, made it, well one down four to go.. One less spot for Peter Gabriel...LAX guess what--Special induction it ain't happening!!!!!!So give it up!!!!!

Posted by Stan Crawford on Sunday, 01.11.09 @ 08:18am


When was the last year they had inductees in all five categories? Has it happened?

Performers
Non-Performers
Sidemen
Early Influence
Lifetime Acheivement

Posted by KANT on Sunday, 01.11.09 @ 14:08pm


Depends on how you look at the Lifetime Achievement-category. Essentially it honors the same kind of people as the Non-Performer-category. If you see them as separate categories, then it never happened. In 2000, there were inductees in both the performer, non-performer, sidemen & early influence categories. That was also the first time they inducted people in the sidemen category, and (unfortunately) the last time in the early influence category.

Posted by The_Claw on Sunday, 01.11.09 @ 15:13pm


Lax, you realize you're an insane person, right?

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 01.11.09 @ 18:27pm


The Wanda Jackson leak seems to be true. Good, I am glad if she made it. She is a talented real old time rock & roller. Naysayers who claimed she was a rockabilly reject had their heads stuck far up inside their own fannies! She is probably the MOST deserving of the entire lot in 2009. Metallica, Beck, Iggy stand aside one moment now. RECOGNIZE this lady!!!

Posted by Telarock on Monday, 01.12.09 @ 22:43pm


Lax26, good call on Wanda Jackson. You were right about her & I was wrong.

I hope I'm able to even the score with War.

Wanda may have taken their spot, though.

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 01.13.09 @ 05:47am


TODAY IS THE DAY!

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 01.13.09 @ 07:07am


Actually, we now know the inductees will be announced tomorrow (Wednesday the 14th).

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Tuesday, 01.13.09 @ 11:27am


Well then, tomorrow is the day we can officially declare the new inductees into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the Class of 2009.

The suspense and suprise, however, is not in who gets inducted in the Performers category. We are all now aware of whom it will be: Iggy Pop/The Stooges, Jeff Beck, Chic, Wanda Jackson, and Little Anthony and the Imperials. The suprises will be threefold.

The foremost is the eventual critical dissaproval/backlash regarding Metallica's non-induction. As I mentioned before, I and others prefer Metallica to Little Anthony and the Imperials. Heck, I prefer Bobby Womack to Little Anthony and the Imperials. Not getting Metallica in, though, will not come to being seen lightly amongst their many admirers and longtime fans.

The second is who will be the inductee(s) in the Non-Performer category. We know it will not be Bernie Taupin, sadly. I do, however, think that Quincy Jones should be inducted. I would even think to consider posthumously Neil Aspinall.

The final suprise to note is if, regarding our months-long and even years-long discussions regarding Peter Gabriel, he alongside fellow Genesis bandmates will be inducted in the special acheivement format I and others have posited. I am still of the thoughts and beliefs that Peter Gabriel, Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and Genesis proper will be inducted in one felt swoop for the Class of 2009 in order to recognize the merits and career works of the main branches of the Genesis tree without having to go to the well one too many times. i will mention, yet, that if not this induction; then Peter Gabriel will certainly be inducted in the Performers Category before the end of this year for the Class of 2010. It simply is time for Gabriel to be inducted.

Well, as mentioned before, we will know the results tomorrow. And the RRHOF will notice the irateness of we Metallica fans come the day after tomorrow. Well, maybe; I am not too certain.

Waiting the results in antici..............pation,

Lax26

Posted by Lax26 on Tuesday, 01.13.09 @ 17:12pm


Sorry to burst your bubble Lax26, but future rockhall has confirmed that Metallica is one of the 2009 inductees. So wherever you got your information about the inductees was incorrect.

Posted by Steve on Tuesday, 01.13.09 @ 20:26pm


Lax - don't start with that special induction crap for Peter G. It isn't happening unless the Hall wants to lose all creditability. As for your Metallica prediction, we will see tomorrow. If you are wrong, I have a feeling you will be hearing it from a few people.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 01.13.09 @ 20:56pm


Lax's information came to him in a dream.

Posted by MBI on Tuesday, 01.13.09 @ 22:05pm


Special Induction!!!!! Hah,,,A dream more like a halucination,,, Heck not even that good!!!!

Peter Gabriel, Genesis all performers---And only eligable in the performer catagory!!!! But nowhere to be found on this ballot!!!!!

LAX you think you are a visionary, but you are nothing more than a troll when it comes to being objective..Most people who say as much as you know very little...So her is a simple lesson to help you!!!! The lesson is this---SAY NOTHING MORE!!!!! Because your warped ideas on Peter Gabriel and Genesis do them a disservice...


I got news for you!!! You don't know anymore than the rest of us who will get in....Wanda Jackson will be in because her people let it leak...We all will know tomorrow if the others get in!!!!

As for Peter Gabriel and Genesis---They are nowhere to be found on the rock hall ballot in any Catagory---Again basically reiterating what I said last summer---A GOOD BAND THAT FAILED TO REACH LEGENDARY STATUS----

Give it up and bury your head in the sand till next year....Maybe then you can be alone with your thoughts and listen to how absurd you are,because everybody here is tired of hearing them!!!!!

Dylan wrote this line and it says it all,
Seems like it was meant for an occasion like this and also about you!!!

LAX---From Positively 4th Street----
"I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And for that one moment I could be you.
Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You know what a drag it is
To see you."

Posted by Stan on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 00:32am


Spooner Oldham will be inducted in the "Sideman" category today.
http://tinyurl.com/86gvlm

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 07:20am


That's great news. Spooner deserves it.

Posted by The_Claw on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 07:40am


Number one it's not Iggy Pop/Stooges the ballot says The Stooges and besides Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel the other members of Genesis have done nothing to even be considered as inductee's. I love the Rolling Stones but that doesn't mean each member should be inducted on their own and in a special ceremony none the less.

Posted by MetalGod on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 09:21am


Hey Lax - guess what? You are wrong again. This site has just publicized that Metallica is in fact one of the inductees this year.

I have to ask, what is it like to be wrong as often as you are? I am not trying to embarrass you here; you do a good enough job on your own with some of your comments.

I have just heard through private sources that the RRHoF at my suggestion will hold a special ceremony to induct The Archies in the performer category before 2009 ends. This induction will include, Betty, Veronica, Jughead, Reggie, Moose as well as the great Archie himself.

It is about time!

Posted by Blah-blah-blah on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 11:27am


The announcement is expected today at ~2:00 pm EST.

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 11:33am


It's official:

The performer inductees are:
Jeff Beck
Little Anthony & the Imperials
Metallica
Run-D.M.C.
Bobby Womack

Early Influence Category Inductee:
Wanda Jackson

Sidemen Category Inductees:
Bill Black
DJ Fontana
Spooner Oldham

Surprised that The Stooges aren't there, but glad Chic didn't get in.

Posted by Jacob on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 13:32pm


Thats a very diverse slate of artists. And they actually accommodated a 6th artist by putting Wanda Jackson as Early Influence. That must spell the end for The Stooges and probably for Chic also. But I think War will be back (depending on the vote tallies)?

Posted by Telarock on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 13:40pm


W-w-what?? No mention of Peter Gabriel ANYWHERE???

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 01.14.09 @ 14:40pm


We now know the five inductees are Metallica, Jeff Beck, Run-DMC, Little Anthony & the Imperials and Bobby Womack. Did anyone predict all five correctly? Not that we can find in this thread. The best anyone seemed to do was Stan (on 11/17/08) who predicted everyone but Run-DMC. Roy also predicted four correct, but he made many different predictions along the way.

The Future Rock Hall poll managed to get 3 out of 5 correct (missing Womack and Little Anthony).

Future Rock Hall correctly predicted 4 out of 5 inductees (like almost everyone else, we included The Stooges and missed Bobby Womack).

Keep in mind, there are 126 different possible combinations of five inductees when there are nine artists to choose from, so if you were selecting randomly, you would have a 0.8% chance of getting all five correct.

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Thursday, 01.15.09 @ 08:31am


Thanks Future Rock, I checked your math, and 126 combinations is correct. You see young people, this is why you "need to learn this stuff" as the saying goes. (smile)

Posted by benny on Thursday, 01.15.09 @ 11:12am


Needed to compose you the very small note just to say thank you yet again over the marvelous knowledge you have featured at this time. It was so remarkably generous with people like you to offer unhampered all that a few people could have advertised as an ebook to earn some profit for themselves, most importantly considering the fact that you could have done it in the event you considered necessary. The pointers in addition worked like a fantastic way to be certain that other individuals have the identical dream much like my personal own to know a lot more in terms of this condition. I am certain there are many more fun occasions in the future for people who take a look at your forum.

Posted by BedBugDogNJ1k on Sunday, 04.10.11 @ 08:20am


1
2
3

Posted by argurn on Saturday, 04.16.11 @ 15:56pm


Stop hack the program!!!

Posted by NICKNAME on Friday, 06.3.11 @ 07:34am


รับจ้างโพส โปรโหมดเว็บไซต์ 1000เว็บบอร์ด2000บาท สนใจสอบถามลายละเอียดที่เบอร์ 0873467837 24ชม

Posted by johnythai on Thursday, 06.9.11 @ 02:33am


รับจ้างโพส โปรโหมดเว็บไซต์ 1000เว็บบอร์ด2000บาท สนใจสอบถามลายละเอียดที่เบอร์ 0873467837 24ชม

Posted by johnythai on Thursday, 06.9.11 @ 05:42am


Hi everyone, just imagined I'd say hello there and also introduce myself.

Posted by Carlosigs on Wednesday, 08.24.11 @ 19:30pm


Recently and baeing German born Creek Lin showed up
In spite of the cloudy evening when the rain while, he was adamant around the experience following this, the final Three months mls absent, the path needed 7 . 5 hours. They was associated with his partner Wu Lin as well as the other the In german. Before which, they start via Yunnan Shangri-La, completely across the Yangtze Pond using, riding Several,500 mls inside Sixty six days and nights.
German born driver present his or her travel information to the River Lin, the present Some,Thousand kilometres experience four to five periods annually in only their ride over time.

Posted by uztlicclxf on Tuesday, 03.20.12 @ 16:55pm


Leave your comment:

Name:

Email:

Comments:


Security Question:

Which letter is Springsteen's band named after?
 

Note: Emails will not be visible or used in any way, but are required. Please keep comments relevant to the topic. Any content deemed inappropriate or offensive may be edited and/or deleted.

No HTML code is allowed.