Future Rock Legends predicts the 2009
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame nominees

Future Rock Legends forecasts which of today's artists will be the next generation's Rock & Roll Hall of Famers by using a combination of historically predictive criteria, user votes, and nomination patterns. The official 2009 nominations are determined by the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Foundation's 32-member Nominating Committee and typically are finalized in mid-September.

Last year, Future Rock Legends correctly predicted seven of the nine nominees.



Future Rock Legends predicts the following nine eligible artists will be on the 2009 ballot:
  • The Stooges - Although the Stooges didn't even get nominated last year (for the first time since 2003), they still managed to steal the show at the 2008 Rock Hall Induction Ceremony by performing in place of Madonna.
    Current Induction Chances: 58%

  • Chic - Chic have been nominated in 2003, 2006, 2007 and again in 2008, but have never gotten enough votes for induction. Interestingly, Chic's co-founder and guitarist, Nile Rodgers, was one of 10 early members of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's nominating committee (five of whom have since been inducted).
    Current Induction Chances: 40%

  • Metallica - After first becoming eligible last year (and being promptly snubbed), look for Metallica to get a nod this year on the heels of a new album.
    Current Induction Chances: 90%

  • Stevie Ray Vaughan - Since Future Rock Legends's inception, Stevie Ray Vaughan fans have been the most passionate advocates and consistent voters of any artist. Vaughan's untimely death 18 years ago cut short a brilliant career, but he should soon be immortalized in Cleveland.
    Current Induction Chances: 25%

  • The Hollies - The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominating Committee is still dominated by baby boomers who had their music awakening during the 1960's. Many of these committee members aren't shy about expressing their love for the Hollies. They should receive their first nomination after waiting 19 years.
    Current Induction Chances: 9%

  • Beastie Boys - The Beastie Boys were nominated in their first year of eligibility last year, but didn't get inducted. We always thought it would be strange if they got in before Run-DMC anyway.
    Current Induction Chances: 82%

  • Run-DMC - The whole "rap question" has been settled as far as the Rock Hall is concerned, so now it's just a matter of lining up the legends as they become eligible. With the amount of hip-hop experts on the Nominating Committee, it would be stunning if Run-DMC weren't nominated this year.
    Current Induction Chances: 48%

  • Kraftwerk - Kraftwerk were nominated back in 2003, but haven't received much attention since then. With the rumored focus on rock sub-genres this year, Kraftwerk might get back on the ballot.
    Current Induction Chances: 57%

  • Donna Summer - Donna Summer received her first nomination in 2008, and should be back again in 2009 (keep in mind that the Rock Hall always nominates at least one woman or woman-fronted band).
    Current Induction Chances: 55%

The "Current Induction Chances" represent the artist's odds of ever being inducted into the Hall of Fame, as calculated by Future Rock Legends and its users.

Bubbling Under

If we're going to be wrong, it will probably be because one of these artists made it to the ballot:

  • Bon Jovi - One of the few artists eligible who are still capable of filling stadiums. Also, Jon Bon Jovi is friendly with Jann Wenner, and that never hurts.
    Current Induction Chances: 22%

  • Afrika Bambaataa - The only nominee from last year that we're predicting won't make the ballot again in 2009.
    Current Induction Chances: 6%

  • Wanda Jackson - Wanda Jackson has received a good deal of publicity regarding her Rock Hall absence after a new documentary about her debuted this year. Elvis Costello is one of the rockers openly lobbying for her induction. Jackson was previously nominated in 2005.
    Current Induction Chances: 10%

  • Sonic Youth - Sonic Youth deserve to be mentioned in this space every year until they're inducted.
    Current Induction Chances: 57%

  • Tom Waits - Waits has been eligible for a decade now, and the Rock Hall could use a (non-conventional) singer-songwriter on the ballot.
    Current Induction Chances: 62%

  • Def Leppard - Nominating Committee member David Fricke actually wrote a book on Def Leppard.
    Current Induction Chances: 36%

  • Rush - It's all about the Colbert Bump. Also, the rumored focus on various sub-genres could really help Rush.
    Current Induction Chances: 16%

  • Joy Division - There are a lot of movies about Joy Division that have come out recently which highlight their continued influence.
    Current Induction Chances: 58%

  • The Smiths - One of the most deserving of the newly eligible artists, but should they get in before The Cure?
    Current Induction Chances: 58%

  • The Chantels - Isn't it time for another 50's girl group to get nominated? The Chantels made the ballot in 2002.
    Current Induction Chances: 10%

[Predictions posted August 25, 2008]

Think you can predict the nominees better than we can? Get on record with yours in the comments section below.


Artists are eligible for the Rock Hall 25 years after releasing their first record (anyone with a record released up through 1983). Future Rock Legends lists eligible artists by first year of eligiblity or alphabetically.

This site is not affiliated in any way with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum or the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation.

You can contact us here.

Comments

344 comments so far (post your own)

The Cure

Bauhaus

Daniel Johnston

Posted by God on Thursday, 08.21.08 @ 22:53pm


I have a feeling that The Stooges are finally going to have their day.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 08.22.08 @ 10:13am


hopefully someone who deserves it not like madonna last year

Which was a DISGRACE

Posted by ryiio on Friday, 08.22.08 @ 12:50pm


I was disappointed that Donna Summer didn't get inducted last year. I wish people would ignore the 'disco sucks' label and appreciate that Donna is herself a fantastic singer/songwriter who has influenced the likes of Madonna and Paula Abdul and is a key figurehead for women in rock/pop/dance music.

Posted by Polar on Friday, 08.22.08 @ 13:26pm


But I like the "Disco Sucks" label!

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 08.22.08 @ 14:41pm


Kraftwerk started the whole Synth/Pop craze. They should get in .... Finally.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 08.23.08 @ 12:34pm


Will this be the year the HoF finally starts recognising many of its oft-heralded snubs? Will it f*ck. Hell will begin to actually exist AND freeze over before The Smiths or anyone like that even gets a mention round this sh*thole.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 08.23.08 @ 15:29pm


Liam -

WELCOME BACK!

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 08.23.08 @ 15:32pm


Hi! Have absolutely no idea about this years picks (Stooges, per'aps? I haven't being paying attention lately, so I dunno), but I personally reckon Mikey will win Big Brother UK '08. Just thought you'd maybe like to know, what with the lack of HoF predictions.

Posted by Liam on Saturday, 08.23.08 @ 15:41pm


Liam & Cheesecrop...y'know, I'm almost afraid to find out who's going to get inducted. It's that emotion when you don't know whether to laugh or cry...I really hate it when that happens...!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.23.08 @ 21:03pm


Ok, before y'all flame me, keep in mind, I'm just stating who I think WILL be discussed/nominated, not necessarily who I'd like to see. That said:

1) Stevie Ray Vaughan... I don't wanna go so far as to call him a shoe-in, but of the newly eligibles, I imagine there'll be a lot of support his way

2) Stooges... this isn't like Neil Diamond, Sonic Youth, or Chubby Checker tooting their own horn saying they think they should be in. This is Madonna having them perform in her place at her induction, and this is the 2007 ceremonies ending with an impromptu jam of "I Wanna Be Your Dog." They've got support, and it may be Lucky 7 for them.

3) Hollies, because Little Steven has announced he'll be pulling for them.

4) Ringo Starr. Lennon in '94, McCartney (and Martin) in '99, Harrison in '04. Will the five year trend continue? Stay tuned, folks.

5) Beastie Boys... I think everyone who put forth a serious prediction last year had these guys picked. I think they'll be back this year.

6) Afrika Bambaataa... they didn't give up until Grandmaster Flash And The Furious Five got in, and I don't think they're gonna even take a breather until they've got Bambaataa, Beasties, Run-DMC and maybe even Herc. But for now, the focus is on Bambaataa

7) Chic... Again with the persistence thing. They'll return like the perennial Christmas fruitcake again this year.

8) Willie Nelson... lately there seems to be at least one nominee that seems to come in from clear out of left field. So I'm going to try the same thing here and say he might show up.

9) Metallica... I honestly don't know if they'll make the ballot, but it's worth a guess to say they might be one of the last ones cut if they don't make it.

10) RUSH... again, maybe not the final ballot, but with their finally getting the big ups in Rolling Stone, it could be a sign that Jann has said, "Oh alright, let's consider these guys too."

11) Bon Jovi... as sure as they seem, I'm not completely comfortable saying they'll be on the ballot... maybe a bit *too* blue-collar, moreso than Skynyrd or even Mellencamp. But in terms of newly eligibles, I think they'll at least get a glance or two.

12) Joe Tex... he's appeared a time or two, and after not being on the ballot last year, he might crop up again.

Only nine make the ballot, but last year, FRH predicted more than nine, so I think I'm allowed to do the same. lol

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 00:32am


The Digital Dream Door website lists eligible artists for the Rock Hall into 10 categories.

QUALIFICATIONS (on a scale of 1-10)

1 - Non-existant
2 - Mostly Insignificant
3 - Recognizable, But Minor Artist
4 - Modest Accomplishments
5 - Worth Examining, But Will Often Fall Short
6 - Strong Case To Be Made
7 - Solid Choice
8 - Unquestioned Credentials
9 - Dominant Artist
10 - The Immortals

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 08.16.08 @ 06:11am
--------------------------------------------------

Let's try the Digital Dream Door list on who you chose here:

SRV - 7
Stooges - 8
Hollies - 5
Ringo - 4
Beastie Boys - 7
Afrika Bambaataa - 4
Chic - 5
Willie Nelson - 5
Metallica - 9
Rush - 9
Bon Jovi - 6
Joe Tex - 5

Admittedly only my take on the list is presented here. Feel free to plug in who you want.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 05:31am


The Digital Dream Door website lists eligible artists for the Rock Hall into 10 categories.

QUALIFICATIONS (on a scale of 1-10)

1 - Non-existant
2 - Mostly Insignificant
3 - Recognizable, But Minor Artist
4 - Modest Accomplishments
5 - Worth Examining, But Will Often Fall Short
6 - Strong Case To Be Made
7 - Solid Choice
8 - Unquestioned Credentials
9 - Dominant Artist
10 - The Immortals

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 08.16.08 @ 06:11am
--------------------------------------------------

Let's try the Digital Dream Door list on who I chose here:

Genesis - 7
Chicago - 5
Blood, Sweat & Tears - 5
Kool & The Gang - 7
The Commodores - 6
Hall & Oates - 7
Alice Cooper - 7
The Cars - 7
Rush - 7
The Pointer Sisters - 7

Posted by Roy on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 06:45am


Liam, I thought you weren't going to watch BB? LIAR.

This American thinks Kat will win. Say what you will about this season (only trumped in dullness by BB4 & BB8) at least it's had some great weeks scattered about and an excellent four horse race for the championship.

As for the American version, I'll go with Renny at this juncture.


Now, on to the Rock Hall picks

1 - Metallica (De-snubbed)
2 - Stevie Ray Yawn (Springsteeny & Little Steven-y enough to be a ballot lock)
3 - Beastie Boys
4 - Run DMC (These two Rap selections will ensure that the short career of Afrika Bambaataa doesn't receive a nomination)
5 - The Hollies (At least we know this travesty is approaching)
6 - Chic (Been close before)
7 - The Stooges (So have they)
8 - Joy Division (Excellent movie bodes well for their chances)
9 - Bon Jovi (After Mellencamp made it in and Little Steven sang their praises, I wouldn't be shocked. Also, they have the Jersey thing going on which is yet another Springsteen connection)

- Sonic Youth misses the ballot for the second straight year.

- The Smiths are the major act skipped this year. Pulp is another newly eligible injustice.

- Donna Summer & Afrika Bambaataa are the two leftovers from last year that don't return.


The five that will be enshrined:

The Hollies
Joy Division
Metallica
Stevie Ray Vaughn
The Stooges

Cohen's induction proved that there are plenty of informed voters so Joy Division can get in. Metallica & Stevie Ray are no-brainers. The Hollies & The Stooges are both sixties acts, morons for the former, dweeby critics for the latter. All in all, I support three of those five acts, same as last year, although I'm higher on all of them being in now than I am on The Ventures.

Chic is still a joke, so is Bon Jovi. The rap artists will split the votes. Partially because some voters won't want to host two such artists. Moreso, the dumbwads will give their complimentary slot to Run DMC while the more educated will reward the more innovative act with the better career, The Beasties.

Posted by Casper on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 13:37pm


Liam according to voting statistics u have the most posts at 2434
Congrats

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 14:20pm


The five that will be enshrined:

The Hollies
Joy Division
Metallica
Stevie Ray Vaughn
The Stooges


I agree on 4 with the exception of Joy Division. Maybe add an older artist into the mix to make it look nice

Posted by danny on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 17:10pm


My hope against hope is that this is Tom Waits' year, seeing as he's one of the biggest artists that I thought would have been a no-brainer for the Rock Hall -- the critics like them and he's classic rock enough to get by with no problem, but the name recognition hurts him, I guess.

This year, either Metallica or the other big no-brainer, the Red Hot Chili Peppers get nominated and get pushed through.

The Stooges are a lock.

I think they'll nominate Run-DMC this year, and possibly Bambataa, giving the Beasties a year off.

Hollies: nominated, not inducted.

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 17:27pm


You guys are getting good at predicting our predictions... Ours will be coming soon.

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 19:23pm


"Liam according to voting statistics u have the most posts at 2434
Congrats"
Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 14:20pm

Does that 2434 include all the profane insults he lobed at people who dared disagree with him?

Half have probably been deleted.

Posted by joker on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 20:08pm


It sure does joker

Posted by Keebord on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 20:11pm


Stevie Ray Vaughan
The Stooges
Rush
Donna Summer
The Cars or The Doobie Brothers
The Faces

it's mostly just wishfull thinking, something tells me Cyndi Lauper might make an appearance on the ballet who knows maybe ELO will make it in, doubtful though on account of the most deserving ones are usually overlooked, i didn't include a hip hop act which everyone else is predicting who knows only time will tell

Posted by Greg on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 20:33pm


Well, aside from Greg's inclusion of Donna Summer, I don't think any of us really expect any women to make the ballot. A bit skewed perhaps, since there always seems to be at least one women on the ballot. Maybe Donna will return, or maybe they'll go with Heart or Pat Benatar, or someone along those lines.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 08.24.08 @ 22:50pm


I already posted my nine somewhere else on the site, but I'll repeat them here.

The Hollies
Gram Parsons
The Stooges
Kraftwerk
Tina Turner
Chic
Metallica
The Beastie Boys
Run DMC

Posted by The_Claw on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 02:27am


My favourites:-

Donna Summer
Kraftwerk
Pat Benatar
Chic
Joy Division

a mixed bag of highly respected and influential artists and acts- perfect to be inducted into the R&R HoF with artists from different genres, races, nations and sexes.

Posted by Harry on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 09:04am


I have no clue who they will nominate this year and who will get chosen.

My (11) hopes:

The Stooges
Alice Cooper
NY Dolls
ELP
King Crimson
Joy Division
Kraftwerk
The Runaways
The Cure
Metallica
The Smiths

I would be shocked if I see two of them nominated.


Posted by Dameon on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 09:17am


My predictions (I'll go with 8 of them) include some I don't particularily like, so FWIW:

Run DMC
Metallica
Stevie Ray Vaughan
The Hollies
Donna Summer
Gram Parsons
The Stooges
Rush

Posted by Paul in KY on Monday, 08.25.08 @ 09:58am


2009 Prediction

1. Metallica
2. Stevie Ray Vaughn
3. Stooges
4. The Hollies
5. Run DMC
6. Beastie Boys
7. Bon Jovi
8. Genesis
9. Rush

Inductees

Metallica
Stooges
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Run DMC
Hollies

I'd like the final spot to be Genesis or Rush, but the Hall committee has a boner for The Hollies

Posted by Kyle on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 07:26am


The 2009 Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Inductees:

The Hollies
Chic
Donna Summer
Beastie Boys
RUN DMC

Bernie Taupin

OR

The Hollies
The Stooges
Beastie Boys
Donna Summer
Chic

Bernie Taupin

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 09:49am


Not sure if it would happen but it'd be nice to see Deep Purple finally get into the hall. I think they have a decent shot especially since Black Sabbath finally made it in a few years ago

Posted by Greg on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 12:15pm


I knew my list was missing someone.

If they do induct Deep Purple (which they won't), we know the following members will be inducted: Ritchie Blackmore, Ian Paice, Jon Lord, Ian Gillan, Roger Glover. (This is considered the essential Deep Purple line-up.

Do the following also get in:

1] Rod Evans - Original Lead Singer
2] David Coverdale
3] Tommy Bolin - Guitar
4] Glenn Hughes
5] Joe Lynn Turner
6] Joe Satriani

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 13:19pm


I really hope Donna Summer gets inducted in 2009. Like her music or not, she has had a powerful influence on today's music. From her synth pioneering dance anthems to her rock gems in the 80s; Donna is the Queen!

Posted by Diana on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 13:32pm


I forgot Simper and Morse.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 13:39pm


What about Little Feat ???

Posted by Kyle on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 15:59pm


If I were to pick from this list it would be 5 of the following:

Stooges
Hollies
SRV
Kraftwerk
Chic
Donna Summer
Rush
Def Leppard
just NO rap acts

and also:
Steve Miller(to make up for Mellencamp getting in)
Deep Purple ( with every single member )
Jethro Tull (")
Scorpions (if a german band like Kraftwerk can get noticed, why can't these guys ???????)
Peter Frampton (one word: TALKBOX)
Small Faces (if Rod Stewart's Faces was considered, then the original should be as well)




Posted by jack on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 16:35pm


in my opinion before Metallica can be inducted they have to let in Judas Priest who really paved the way for them. Judas Priest is most definately influential enough to be in the hall, why they're not is a mystery to me. I can kind of understand about KISS but Priest?

Posted by Greg on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 17:12pm


Warren Zevon, the greatest American songwriter not in the Hall.

Posted by Drew on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 17:44pm


At least SRV is eligible now so his fans will actually have something to complain about if he's snubbed, rather than flood every Rock Hall mentioning site on the internet with "OMG! Why isn't SRV in the Hall???!!!!"

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 18:12pm


Hmm. I was just thinking. Metallica was discussed last year but then totally snubbed. Perhaps they were planning the rock sub-genre thing for quite some time and last year was a way to put in some middle-of-the-road picks like DC5, Mellencamp & The Ventures?

How about this:

Sonic Youth (indie rock)
Metallica (metal)
Joy Division (unbelievable awesomeness)
Kraftwerk (electronic)

& five others. I don't think this is out of the realm of probability. It would be great if the Hall started tailoring their ballots to a theme so they could let the less famous but more important names not have to compete with legends like Madonna or U2.

Posted by Casper on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 18:15pm


Casper...Funny thing about SRV, I won't be surprised if he is inducted, and I won't be surprised if he's not...I just can't get any sort of feel for what they're thinking. He's a great talent (probably the best raw talent I've ever seen), very influential, pretty much took playing the blues to a different plane (all my opinion), but how many artists out there fill that bill who have been snubbed over the years? Too many to think of off the top of my head!!!

I don't know what little "extra" SRV might have over previously snubbed artists that would cause them to induct him. If this process had run smoothly over the years with few arguments, I would say he definitely would. I just don't know...

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 18:35pm


Dameon...being from New York, do you remember a band called Silver Apples? They actually pre-dated Kraftwerk a bit. I remember a song by them called "Oscillations" that was actually WAY ahead of its time.

Good stuff for anyone to listen to as far as roots of electronic music goes. Of course, Kraftwerk are definitely a vital part of that genre...just not the first.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 19:00pm


Hear me out on this, fellow predictors:

Here is what I would have as my nine picks for the finalists in the Performers category for the Class of 2009. It is different, yet interesting.

Peter Gabriel: Perhaps the most influential artist eligible and not yet in. Certainly a personal favorite of mine. With the success of Wall-E and being named among Time's 100, not to mention the forthcoming reissue of his last album with Genesis, "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" (reunion?), I feel this is his time. Frankly, I cannot figure out why Gabriel is not already in.

Yusuf Islam/Cat Stevens: a finalist before, he should be considered again. Easily amongst the more ambitious singer-songwriters of his era.

Metallica: A New album and considerable fan base should put these guys on the ballot this year. Though I am not prone to liking their type of rock music, Metallica has been an exception; largely due to their lyric writing prowess.

Donna Summer: Still continuing to amaze and shine in her works. Again, not a particular fan of Disco overall, yet Summer has been a favorite among many, then and now.

Carly Simon: A highly successful singer-songwriter for over 40 years, and yet not inducted as of now. Perhaps with the newer album of originals in a bossa-nova feel, amongst continued media exposure, the time will come for her to be inducted.

Lionel Richie: Only recently eligible to include his full career and works. It is not at all suprising given his impressive track record of notable albums and songs. And yes, clearly was the Commodores during his stint with the group.

The Hollies: With Crosby, Stills, Nash, young, The Byrds, and Buffalo Springfield already in, it is time to complete the family tree with the Hollies. For good measure, they more than held their own after Graham Nash lef the band in late 1968. In fact, some of their bigger hits in America came after Nash left.

Rush: Perhaps now the likes of Dave Marsh will take their credentials seriously. One of the few 70s acts that in my opinion improved once the 80s arrived.

Iggy Pop/The Stooges: I still cannot understand the hold-up for induction. Should it be Iggy or all of them? Whatever the case, an induction should be forthcoming.

My picks for the five inductees are:

1. Peter Gabriel
2. Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens)
3. Donna Summer
4. Carly Simon
5. The Hollies

As for non-performer: Roy made a great pick regarding Bernie Taupin. I had not thought of that. I would include Sir Tim Rice in the mix as well. Also, Quincy Jones has been long oversue for induction.

Sidemen: I would pick Ringo Starr. If Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, The Beatles, and Martin are in, so should Ringo. One of the best go to guys in his field.

Anyway, those are my picks. I sincerely hope that Peter Gabriel, in particular, finaaly goes in this year. The waiting has been long enough.

Hope for Happiness,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 08.26.08 @ 19:18pm


Lax - Peter Gabriel cannot go in before Genesis. Rush cannot go in before King Crimson, ELP, and a few others.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 04:53am


Since everybody's tossing in who they feel has a shot, here goes my take on the ballot:

The Stooges
Metallica
Rush
Run D.M.C.
Beasties
The Smiths
Chic
Donna Summer
Genesis
Deep Purple
Def Leppard
Link Wray
Kraftwerk

I've probably left someone out, and maybe I'll remember who it was later on.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 05:22am


Ringo Starr is not going to be inducted in the sideman category. He will be given the full blown main performer category treatment. He's had hits and albums in his name.

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 06:11am


Gitarzan said about SRV: 'I don't know what little "extra" SRV might have over previously snubbed artists that would cause them to induct him.'

I think him being dead, dying young in a crash after a great show, is considered a 'plus' with the committee, IMO. It certainly is the answer for anyone who would say 'what's he done recently'.

I'm sure SRV would have rather remained alive & never make Hall, but his untimely death adds to his mystery (IMO).

Posted by Paul in KY on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 06:26am


The Hollies
Herman's Hermits
Little Anthony and the Imperials
Gram Parsons
The Stooges
Beastie Boys
Donna Summer
Chic
RUN DMC
Stevie Ray Vaughan

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 06:47am


Paul...that's a pretty good opinion on that particular subject...

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 07:34am


The Silver Apples - I have heard of them, but by the time I found the East Village (1971), they had already disbanded. I think my brother in-law told me about them. I heard that they reformed in the 90's for a short while, but I don't know if they did anything.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 09:21am


Are you kidding me? Just follow which concerts are still selling out. There is no question that if Steve Perry wouldn't have left Journey twice they would be in already. The music stands the test of time and continues to get more popular. However, because Journey is in that stigma of "Power Ballads" and Arena/Album oriented Rock they will never get there just do. Thats why this week they have the number 10 song on AC and had an album that debuted at 5 and 11 weeks still in the top 40 of album sales.
I guess they have sold to many albums.
After Journey, the 2nd one that I can't understand is Heart. I thought the whole point to the so called "R&R Hall of Fame" is changing music history, most influental, and longevity. I guess this is Heart and Journey's problems. They didn't stop after 2 or 3 albums like the 36 times Eric Clapton has been inducted or the Mama and Papa's now there is a historic band. Anyways, how can you deny the Wilson Sisters. Ann Wilson, still has the most amazing voice ever. Again, AOR and Power Ballads. I guess the reason Heart isn't in because Ann & Nancy are actually talented unlike Grace Slick, Janis Joplin, and Mama Cass.
Then Bon Jovi, still selling out, still selling albums and still having hit singles. They are very more than deserving. Again sold to many albums.
Next Metallica, let me say this, I'm not a huge fan. I like some songs. But, they actually make sense. They are deserving.
Here is the suprise of my choices and I think a group if this makes sense that saved Rock music, how irronic, since outside of the above mentioned, 3 Doors Down, Matchbox 20, Lifehouse, and Goo Goo Dolls, sucks again. I think RUN DMC should be in. They were one of the actually good and early pioneers in crap, I mean rap. Plus, by doing Walk This Way with Aerosmith, they changed the face. They saved rock, saved Aerosmith (whom was left for dead at this point and would never be in the R&R HOF without them, and actually put rap music on the map.

Posted by Steve on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 11:24am


Janis Joplin and Mama Cass are more deserving of induction than Heart, I'm not saying Heart shouldn't be inducted i'm just saying if your going to bash people in the hall that are undeserving than bash Bonnie Raitt

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 11:32am


Oh and one more thing the Mama's and the Papa's are a historic band and by saying they're not your ignorance is showing

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 11:34am


Greg:

Did the Mama's and the Papa's really do anything that Peter, Paul and Mary didn't already do?

Posted by interviewer on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 12:45pm


Musically they weren't that different but they did organize the Monteray Pop Festival which was a precurser to Woodstock and introduced americans to the likes of Janis Joplin,Jimi Hendrix, and The Who

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 13:21pm


How could you say Ann & Nancy Wilson are more talented than Janis, Grace or Cass. To me, on certain Heart songs Ann sounds like Janis without the gruff. Grace Slick, in additon to also played piano and recorder. (Slick's recorder is featured on two songs from the Airplane's "Surrealistic Pillow" "Comin' Back to Me" and "How Do You Feel.")

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 13:36pm


Ummmmm.....Grace slick plays piano, thats great, but Nancy Wilson one of the best female guitar players along with the very deserving Bonnie Raitt. As for Joplin, the only thing she did was screatch. Wow, the Moma and Papa's organized a Festival, so what. I guess Heart starting the whole Seattle sound, which lead to Alternative (which I hated for the most part) doesn't mean anything. Your right I guess 4 decades of success of selling albums, selling out concerts, and still making hits like Heart and Journey don't mean anything. I guess they should have died young or only put out 2 or 3 albums, that way they couldn't have been considered the greatest of all time. Whatever.

Posted by Steve on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 18:35pm


Let me respond to Dameon's post regarding my initial post:

You do realise that when Peter Gabriel does get inducted, his works with Genesis is included. And that is everything in the Genesis era of 1968-1975, plus the "Six of the Best" concert, the 1999 re-recording of "The Carpet Crawlers", and the rumored classic line-up renunion which may or may not ever occur. Now I would prefer to have Gabriel and Genesis inducted in the same year: I would even include the entire bodies of work that the added two creative forces of the classic line-up, Steve Hackett and Tony Banks. And I would be open to include everything that Phil Collins and Mike Rutherford recorded as well. Yet in all fairness, inducting Peter Gabriel may be similar to inducting the classic line-up era of Genesis (Gabriel-Banks and Gabriel-Hackett-Banks periods.) Include the activism for humanities, the innovative videos and tours, and the fact that he has continually stayed fresh and forward looking (which I sadly cannot say the same regarding Phil Collins), and Peter Gabriel goes in without question. Heck, "Down to Earth" still proves his keen songwriting magic, if you will; and that was released over two months ago,

Now then, regarding Emerson, Lake and Palmer: this unique trio should have been inducted years ago. However, they began to slow down their immediate impact after "Works"; the nadir being "Love Beach", not a personal favorite of either Greg Lake or Carl Palmer in particular. They have been a virtual non-entity since. Yet, the era from their debut through "Works" is unparrelaled. For that, ELP should be in. It may be a while longer to wait, though.

With respect to King Crimson, again they should have been inducted years ago. I suppose the problem is: which King Crimson to induct? And the more I think about it, the more it becomes that King Crimson revolves around four band members: Robert fripp, Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, and Bill Bruford. Fripp himself considers King Crimson to be virtually two entities: his in the 60s and 70s, Belew's afterwards. Heck, since 1981 with the release of "Discipline", their tours have only played a select few of their songs prior to the 80s, "Red" and "Lark's Tongue in Aspic" being the more obvious. Certainly Fripp has for over 30 years ceased playing anything from the first five King Crimson albums. In many ways, if King Crimson ever does get inducted, it may be from 1981 onwards (e.g., the Fripp-Belew-Levin-Bruford line-up), since it is that line-up that Robert Fripp considers to be King Crimson.

As for Rush before ELP or Crimson: consistency, durability, familiarity with the line-up, and being able to still be leaders in their field would propel these guys to be inducted before other great prog artists. It has been the same three people for 34 years: Neil Peart, Alex Lifeson, and Geddy Lee. And again, while a good deal of prog acts faded when the 80s came, Rush did amazing work, even through today. Plus, the three of them are highly astute writers and craftsmen; I have been impressed with Peart's published works of memoirs and travel to note.

Anyway, that is my point-by-point rebuttal, so to speak. I do clearly think, however, that Peter Gabriel has the greatest of momentum going in this year. His induction, I hope, will be the spark to seriously consider progressive art rock as a needed sub-genre in popular music's ascendency as the "new aristocracy", as a person whose name I cannot remember once stated.

Turning my head to stare,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 18:40pm


Steve...I hate to be the bearer of bad news (again), but Nancy Wilson isn't really that great of a guitar player. Comparing her to Bonnie Raitt is ridiculous. Ann Wilson's voice was the power behind Heart...period.

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 18:52pm


Lax 25, when a solo artist is inducted the works of his previous group are NOT included. If that were the case Ringo Starr would be already in. The solution to the King Crimson, ELP, Genesis dilemma would be to induct Robert Fripp solo in 2009, ELP in 2010, then Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins solo in 2011. As for Rush going in before any of the aforementioned artists, that would be a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

Posted by classicrocker on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 18:58pm


I hate to be the bearer of bad news (again), but Nancy Wilson isn't really that great of a guitar player.

Yeah - but she is really good looking, especially in those 80's videos.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 19:03pm


Lax25...Actually, an artist's solo career is supposed to be judged on it's own merits and not by what he did in a band (see the ongoing Steve Perry debate).

That's why sometimes I wonder about solo artists like Paul Mc Cartney. I didn't think his solo stuff was all that great, or influential, or anything else. Yet he's in the HOF as a solo artist...go figure!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 19:03pm


Ah yes...the infamous "cleavage tour"...yummy!!!

(Yes, I know...I'm a swine!!!!)

Posted by Gitarzan on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 19:05pm


Steve:

you can't even spell Mama's and the Papa's right and more importantly the Monteray Pop festival was hugely important not just some stupid festival as i said before it set the foundation for Woodstock, maybe you've heard of that one. and Lastly Janis doesn't just sreatch (i think you meant screech) she conveys emotion through song like nobody else's business. bottom line why don't you learn a little more before you comment on something and make yourself look like an idiot you might also find this useful

dictionary.com

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 19:39pm


Steve, i almost forgot when you mentioned Heart started the whole Seattle sound thing, i think you meant Nirvana...There this other band that pioneered a type of rock called grunge, just merely being from someplace doesn't mean you made up their "sound". Bob Dylan is from Minneapolis but he certainly didn't come up with the "Minneapolis Sound" that would be Prince (in case you don't know,they sound completely different)

and the reason Heart isn't in the hall yet is because of the crap they put out in the 80's

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 19:45pm


I would spell the Mama's and the Papa's correctly if they were any good. So I guess you are a big fan of the Pussy Cat Dolls, New Kids on the Block, and N'SYNC because they were so called "bands" that sang together and had harmoney. I wasn't the one that was bashing Bonnie Raitt, I actually think she is awesome. Your right Janis did convey emotion in her sorry I will spell it right this time screeching, the problem is it is me wanting to rip my ears apart when I hear anything she ever sang, just like the modern Janis Joplin being Amy Winehouse both completely overrated. I will give her a little credit, very little credit she wrote some kinda ok songs. Her voice could never be compaired to Ann Wilsons. Ann's voice ranks up there with Ella Fitzgerald and Patsy Cline as one of the greatest voices in music history. You are right, Heart didn't make up the Seattle sound, as Alice and Chains which group was one of the biggest influences for the Seattle sound. Ummm...also sorry I think I stated Heart was one of the leaders of the Seattle sound that lead to Alternative, sorry I meant Grunge. I wasn't a big Nirvana fan, but will give them their due they deserve. This is going to make me sound even more against the so called greats of music history, but really compairing Bob Dylan to Prince, come on not even close. The only thing Bob Dylan did was write some ok songs like Joplin and both had some of the worst voices ever.

Posted by Steve on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 20:28pm


Steve, all you are doing is making yourself sound more like an idiot all the time. The band is called Alice In Chains not Alice and Chains.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 21:07pm


i didn't compare Bob Dylan to Prince i was making the point that Prince came up with the Minneapolis sound even though Bob Dylan was from Minneapolis before Prince.

and i don't think you come off as "against the so called greats of music history" you come off as ignorant because they're great for a reason

and by the way Grunge = Alternative

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 21:14pm


Actually Bob Dylan is not from Minneapolis, MN but Hibbing, MN. Another artist from Hibbing MN is Gary Puckett. Prince put Minneapolis on the Musical map but Bob Dylan and Gary Puckett put Hibbing, Minnesota on the musical map, Get your geography straight, Greg

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 22:36pm


I'm all for Donna Summer getting inducted- but mentioning that she's influenced Paula Abdul isn't exactly a great thing. hehe It's like saying Madonna influenced Britney Spears. Granted, I enjoy the Forever Your Girl album, but Abdul isn't exactly a great or important artist.

Anyhoo, Donna definitely should be inducted. She ain't the Queen of Disco for nothin'. The Bee Gees were the Kings, so only fitting for Ms. Summer to get recognized.

Posted by JR on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 23:15pm


Aaron:

i will gladly get my geography straight, Aaron, i was just making the point that although Heart is from Seattle they didn't contribute to the "Seattle sound" and that two artists can be from (around) the same area but that doesn't mean one had anything to do with the creation of a particular sound that the other one popularized

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 08.27.08 @ 23:51pm


Steve, i almost forgot when you mentioned Heart started the whole Seattle sound thing, i think you meant Nirvana...Gregg

I think you need to rethink this thought. Nirvana was not even close to being the first. They weren't even the first band to get heavy airplay on the radio. AIC was with "Man In The Box". They were the 1st band from the "Grunge" scene that got heavy rotation play on MTV.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 08.28.08 @ 04:09am


It should be mentioned that Run-DMC is now the highest ranked eligible artist on the Immortals list (#48) who is not in the Hall of Fame. Beastie Boys (#77) and Stooges (#78) are also on there.

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Thursday, 08.28.08 @ 07:57am


John Simon
Tom Dowd
Arif Mardin
Quincy Jones
Casey Kasem
Bernie Taupin

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 08.28.08 @ 08:03am


"It should be mentioned that Run-DMC is now the highest ranked eligible artist on the Immortals list (#48) who is not in the Hall of Fame. Beastie Boys (#77) and Stooges (#78) are also on there."

Only six eligible artists are on that list. After Run-DMC, the Beasties and the Stooges are Gram Parsons (#87), Roxy Music (#98) en Lee 'Scratch' Perry (#100). You might also want to add him to your non-performers list, Roy.

Posted by The_Claw on Thursday, 08.28.08 @ 08:40am


Donna Summer needs to get inducted! I do not care much for some disco music (guaranteed its always great for making you feel good), but i have always thought of Donna as being more than just a disco diva. Her 'Once Upon a Time' LP and 'Bad Girls' LP are legendary concept albums with a fantastic mix of disco, soul, rock and powerful vocals. It is important to remember also that she was a prolific songwriter, which is sometimes over-shadowed with her 'Queen of Disco' image. Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame- please induct Donna Summer in 2009!

Posted by James on Thursday, 08.28.08 @ 11:54am


Dameon, thank you for clearifying the Altrnative/Grunge scene/Seattle Sound. As I said one of Alice In Chains biggest influences was/is Heart. To the point that one of the AIC members is touring and playing guitar for Heart on this tour with Cheap Trick & Journey.

As for Greg, I guess you were wrong about both the Minneapolis & Seattle sound. As you quoted "Steve, i don't think you come off as "against the so called greats of music history" you come off as ignorant because they're great for a reason." I guess they are great because Greg says so. I think you do the same thing against the music of the Late 70's/Early 80's Rock, the so called Corporate Rock/Album Oriented Rock/Arena Rock, like Journey, Heart, Foreigner, Styx and Rush. I have no problem with these as you say "greats" being in the R&R HOF what I have a problem with is the point of the R&R HOF is that its supposed to be the most influental artists of there time and catagory, change music history, and longevity. So by you saying Heart hasn't had one of those types of careers is just crazy. Just because you are stuck in the 60's and early 70's face of music doesn't mean they are more influental or important than the modern artists. You need to give influental artists their just do. Again the reason why a lot of these groups/artists aren't in the ROR HOF is because they are from the above mentioned time of music, that they didn't committe suscide or die young, and realsed more than 2 or three albums. Finally, the reason that most get into the HOF is because the people on the election committee are fans of them and not truely the best artists or most influental.

Posted by Steve on Thursday, 08.28.08 @ 18:05pm


This is a pretty reasonable selection if you ask me, excepting The Hollies who definetly don't deserve the HoF any more than The Zombies, Turtles, MC5, Incredible String Band, Capt. Beefheart and all the other 60s leftovers they seem to be interested in all of a sudden(Ventures/DC5)

Metallica and Beastie Boys, to me, are no-brainers because growing up in the 90s, these acts were in Zeppelin/Floyd territory. However, it's sad that all the great pre-Nirvana alternative rock bands: Pixies, Sonic Youth, Replacements, Violent Femmes, X, Black Flag, Dead Milkmen, Minutemen, Cure, Smiths, Jesus and Mary Chain, Bad Brains, Husker Du seem doomed to be forever snubbed because they didn't survive to the 90s or remain a relative obscurity compared to bullshit like Bon Jovi and SRV. This is in my opinion, the greatest generation of the past 25, not the Alt-rock giants that I grew up with that they inspired.

However, it seems very odd that The Cars and Cheap Trick are being ignored considered how much airtime they get on classic rock radio, obviously a great indicator of who gets in, considering the choices of Lynard Skynard, ZZ Top, Bob Seger(what about George Thurogood and the Destroyers?)

Anyway I can only hope that the guys on this site are right and the RnRHoF corrects it's two worst exclusions ever(Tom Waits and Iggy Pop) maybe they'll make it three and induct solo Lou Reed, who deserves to get in if the lame solo careers of Paul, Paul, Eric and George deserve such treatment.

Posted by JF on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 00:21am


On the solo-mometer via my own preferences...

1. John Lennon
2. Michael Jackson
3. George Harrison
4. Paul McCartney
5. Lou Reed
6. Paul Simon (Self-titled album rules though)
7. Eric Clapton

I wouldn't have inducted Clapton solo but he would've eventually had more supporters on this site than SRV and I'd look like a jackass for not letting him in. Reed's career was inconsistent but had some absolutely great records (Berlin, Transformer, etc.) I will admit though that The Beatles are my favorite band, so....

Posted by Casper on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 14:35pm


Madonan was a no-brainer for first-year-eligible induction. Passing her by would have been like passing by Elvis, the Beatles, etc. in a similar situation. One may not be a fan of her music, or go on (unecessarily) about how she's not "rock" (when lotsof acts in the HOF aren't rock), but there's no denying her important and impact on entertainment, music, culture, etc. with what she's done in her work. Far too important an act.

RE Journey- as someone mentioned, the group is perceived a certain way, and while some of the songs could be considered classics, they're kinda lightweight. Much like a Mairah Carey or Celine Dion would be perceived (despite their vocal prowess). Bon Jovi is kinda the same, but every now and then a lightweight act gets though, and it helps if they're a rock band that can command strong touring showings and the like (I guess).

Posted by JR on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 14:58pm


"Madonan was a no-brainer for first-year-eligible induction"- JR

No MTV, no Madonna...plain and simple. As mentioned here before, her core body of work in music barely rates as cut-rate disco. Probably the most overrated "artist" in history.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 16:20pm


Here we go again. Madonna is probably the most important female artist of the last thirty years. Huge influence, not only on today's pop music. Many other female musicians, rock musicians, consider her an influence. Why? Well, never there was a pop singer that could combine mainstream success with controversial topics like sexuality and religion as Madonna. Now before you'll go and mention some other controversial female singers in the history of music, ask yourself this question: what was her public? If that public was as large as Madonna's, you could prove me wrong. But only then. Academic studies have been made about Madonna's role in how femininity and sexuality is perceived. She's probably even the most studied person in the history of pop music.

Okay, she's not a fantastic singer, nor is she a great songwriter or does she play an instrument very well. But that doesn't mean she wouldn't be anywhere without MTV. Hell no, her performances get too much attention for that. She can put up a show. And she did make a couple of critically acclaimed albums. Remember the reception of "Ray of Light"? Plus, she not only has a nose for good production work, but also for what will be in fashion.

Madonna might not be what you'd look for in a great artist. Well, that's too bad, because there aren't probably many artists around that understand pop music as well as Madonna.

Posted by The_Claw on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 16:49pm


Madonan was a no-brainer for first-year-eligible induction. Passing her by would have been like passing by Elvis, the Beatles, etc. in a similar situation. (JR)

With all due respect, how can you even put Madonna in the company of the Beatles. She is not even in the same universe with them.

And Gitarzan is correct. MTV made Madonna. I am not saying she would not have had success without it, but her impact would never had come close to the heights it reached without it. That being said, since we cannot remove MTV from the history or culture, I will not say she did not deserve the induction. She did impact the music and video world. We can thank her for Ms. Spears.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 17:01pm


While we've brought up the subject of MTV, does anyone see the founder(s)/creator(s) of MTV getting inducted in the Non-Performer category? I mean, yeah, MTV itself is no longer what its names says, but its importance to rock 'n' roll and the music scene overall in the '80s, not to mention that there ARE still subsidiary channels on your advanced cable packages that are all music videos... is it a reasonable possibility within the next couple years?

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 17:19pm


"Many other female musicians, rock musicians, consider her an influence. Why? Well, never there was a pop singer that could combine mainstream success with controversial topics like sexuality and religion as Madonna. Now before you'll go and mention some other controversial female singers in the history of music, ask yourself this question: what was her public?"

Isn't the above the definition of a media whore?

Isn't it supposed to be about the quality of the music, not the quality of the controversy??

Posted by interviewer on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 18:06pm


"Madonna might not be what you'd look for in a great artist. Well, that's too bad, because there aren't probably many artists around that understand pop music as well as Madonna."-The_Claw

Okay, Claw...we can just agree to disagree about Madonna. In the entertainment field, she's probably one of the best at self-promotion. I really, honestly think that if she hadn't been seen first (like performing "Like A Virgin" live on MTV, which was probably her take-off moment), her music just wasn't that strong or different or anything else. Earlier in her career her music was about like I described Sheryl Crow's...if it were a Baskin-Robbins ice cream flavor, it would be vanilla.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 18:31pm


Philip...that's probably a pretty good point. It was revolutionary, to say the very least!! A lot of artists got their big break (see Madonna) because of MTV. I think you could describe it as a cultural phenomenom...it changed a lot of things about music and people could easily identify with how artists presented themselves visually.

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 18:36pm


Madonna is someone I never had any respect for until I heard her induction acceptance speech. While it went on too long, I actually learned that she actually did have a little bit of business savvy to her. Yeah, she was smart at marketing herself, alright. It's supposed to be just about the music, but it seldom is. That's not a statement of defeatism, just an "It is what it is" kind of sentiment. Madonna's induction was inevitable. I don't know what her rating was here, but I had her slated at a 99.9% chance of induction. On her first year of eligibility, no less.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 19:31pm


For those of you that don't think MTV was important and didn't change the face of music, even if you think for the worst are just crazy and are completely closed minded. MTV did as much for music as the Beattles and Elvis both did on the Ed Sullivan Show. You have to give the creators of MTV their credit and do believe that they should be inducted into the R&R HOF part for non-musicians. Especially, when you have groups like the Mama's and Papa's that release only 2 or 3 albums of basically nothing but bubble gum music that if was done today, would be compaired to N'Sync, Backstreet Boys, Cheetah Girls in the HOF. The reason the M&P's are in according to Greg and Dictionary is because the put together the precursor concert/event to Woodstock, that being the Monteray Pop festival. Key word being POP festival. Pop as in Madonna, who might have become a star because of MTV, but reguardless she has had a outstanding career. She changed the face of music, reinvented herself, changed the face of music again and over and over and over. She just as deserving of being in as Joplin.

As for JR calling Journey lightweight is a joke. Have you ever listened to Journey outside of there hits or ever scene them in concert. First of all, Neal Schon at the age of 15 started working with Santana and touring with them after turning down Clapton. That was at age 15. Its to bad for Neal that his last name isn't Van Halen (Eddie is great and Van Halen ok, great with Sammy, David alright) because if it was he would be in the HOF. One of the founding members, Greg Rollie is in the HOF already from his time with Santana. Not to mention when Greg Rollie left Journey he hand picked Jonathen Cain to take his spot, one of the best songwritters in current history. Next, two words... Steve Perry. Perhaps one of the best voices of Rock music all time, no questions asked. No question if Steve Perry wouldn't have screwed Journey on two different occasions that Journey would be in the HOF. They would have been a first ballot inductee if he would have stayed with them. Next, they have sold over 75 million albums not bad for being lightweight. Also, the greatest hits is one of the best selling albums of all time, over 15 million copies. Escape over 9 million copies. Furthermore, currently on the BILLBOARDS Top Pop Album Chart Journey's Greatest Hits is number 3 and last week was number 2. Currently on a weekly basis ABBA's Greatest Hits is outselling Journey because of the movie and musical Momma Mia. Not to mention Journey's Greatest Hits has been on the Billboards album chart for a continous 772 weeks (that is 14.86 straight years). Currently on the same chart the only album that has been on the chart longer and currently in the top 10 is Bob Marley and Wailers-Legend/Best of Album for a continous 958 weeks. To me that is longevity and wouldn't call that lightweight. Not to mention they have had a top 5 may I repeat top 5 album every decade since the 70's. That would be 4 decades. Steve Augeri was never given his just due. The new version of Journey with Arnel Pineda with the album Revelation debut at #5, currently after 12 weeks of release is still in the top 30. Selling over 800,000 albums in 12 weeks not bad. You also talk about this "it helps if they're a rock band that can command strong touring showings and the like (I guess)." Lets see the current tour with Cheap Trick and Heart has sold out almost ever show so far on this tour. For the ones they haven't sold out have been the ones at Amplitheaters that keep selling as many tickets as possible and almost never say they sell out. Finally, lets put it this way, DON"T STOP BELIEVING is one of the ten most influential songs of the EIGHTIES! I appologize for spelling errors my computer is acting up>

Posted by Steve on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 20:05pm


Since it's been a little while since anyone posted a list to be ridiculed/abused here, I guess it's my turn:

Pat Benatar
Cheap Trick
Deep Purple
Dire Straits (or Mark Knopfler as a solo artist)
The Doobie Brothers
Heart
Journey
Kiss
Rush
Ringo Starr
Donna Summer

A few justifications (Since there have been quite a few for Kiss, Rush, Starr and Summer, I won't add my own):

Heart and Benatar have inspired legions of female rockers to the spotlight (in Benatar's case, Lita Ford, Belinda Carlisle and Joan Jett among others); in the words of critic (and Hall voter) Dave Marsh, Heart "would be the queens of heavy metal if heavy metal weren't ruled by male primogeniture."

Journey: Bon Jovi has been considered (at least here unofficially) for a spot in the nominations. From what I remember, even he (and probably every rock act of his generation) admits that his music was heavily inspired by, among others, Journey.

Kiss: Same reasons. How many kids drew grade-school charicatures of the face-painted four? How many were inspired to take up a guitar because of them? Almost as many as those whose first chords were of...

Deep Purple: Really now, how many budding guitarists' first chords were "Smoke on the Water?"

Cheap Trick and Dire Straits: In their own way, I wonder if the punk/grunge (Cheap Trick) or alternative (Dire Straits) movements would have happened the way they did without their influence. I know my arguments are weakest here, but...

Ringo Starr: Obvious. It's debatable whether he contributed more to the Beatles than did George Harrison, but his contribution to the Beatles--and his solo work--each deserve consideration for this honor.

Okay, go ahead with the virtual rotten tomatoes!




Posted by Joe on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 22:05pm


Joe, I could live with all of them. They're quality picks for the most part. The problem is that they all had their heydays in the same ten year time frame from 1972-1982. I think the committee wants to spread it out a little more over the spectrum of time. Say 2 from the 60s, 3 from the 70s and 4 from the 80s.

Posted by classicrocker on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 22:28pm


Joe, no need to feel too bad. A few of those I'm not really a fan of, but understand why a case could be made to put them in. And you're not the first to say Ringo has a chance of being nominated this year. When I first said it, I mentioned the five-year thing. What I forgot to mention was that last year there was an article citing an insider with the Hall Of Fame people saying Ringo was gonna be getting his solo honors. That didn't happen, of course, but it could mean his name gets bandied about a bit more this year. Like I said, stay tuned folks.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 23:26pm


the mama's and the papa's aren't bubblegum pop they're mostly folk rock

i don't think the monteray pop festival had very much going on with acts like Hendrix,Joplin, The Who, Jefferson Airplane, Grateful Dead, the Steve Miller Band and Otis Redding

and i'm just kinda curious how big your crush on Steve Perry is or any/all members of Journey for that matter

Posted by Greg on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 23:33pm


And classicrocker, I think everyone here, would agree that they need to induct more people each year, though I don't know if I'd agree with your proportions, lol.

Posted by Philip on Friday, 08.29.08 @ 23:33pm


Everyone who has brought up the creators of MTV for a non-performer award: great call. As it stands though, these men & women, whomever they be, will never, ever be inducted, and here's why: Rolling Stone magazine was one of the leading players w/in popular culture through the 70's. MTV's social vortex drew everything into it as the 1980's wore on. In doing so it lessened the power of everyone, RS included. Does anyone really think a Hall of Fame who's board members are primarily from a print-driven format will wish to acknowledge the people who stole their thunder, to a degree? In all honesty, solo-era Perry, Three Dog Night, Rush, Hannah Montana, the Jonas Bros, Robin Trower, all 500 members of Chicago, Britney, K-Fed, and her entire chorus line of dancers, solo-era Ringo, the Backstreet Boys, Genesis, ELO, The whole of Britian that Liam has sought to defend, Alice Cooper's guillotine(much less Alice himself), and left-over peanut butter from Iggy Pop's "choosy kids choose Jif" era (much less the Iggster himself) all stand a chance to get in before MTV's creators see the inside of this place. So long as eMpTyV exists, it is a reminder to the board voters of the power they once held, and it's diminution.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 07:11am


"Ringo Starr: Obvious. It's debatable whether he contributed more to the Beatles than did George Harrison, but his contribution to the Beatles--and his solo work--each deserve consideration for this honor."- Joe

Y'know, I just don't see it. Take away the fact that he was a member of the Beatles (which they're supposed to do when considering induction) and ask yourself if he would've even had a solo career. I really don't think so...his solo stuff was real weak. Anyone unknown with the same material probably wouldn't have landed a recording contract.

I think he owes any success he had as a solo artist directly to the Beatles, because I don't think it would've flew on its own.

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 08:35am


"Dire Straits (or Mark Knopfler as a solo artist)"- Joe

Dires Straits...maybe sometime down the road, another group I'm not too sure about. As for Mark Knofler's solo career, his playing is a direct perpetuation of the styles of Chet Atkins and Merle Travis, and I'm not of a mind to say he took it to another level. as far as I know, his solo stuff has never been played much on mainstream medium, either. A guitarist who I think DID take that style to another level and has had commercial success would be Brian Setzer. Regardless of what people think of him, he's an extraordinary player.

Joe, no rotten tomatoes here. I just give my opinion as I see it...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 09:25am


Were they to induct someone to represent the rise of MTV, it would almost certainly be Robert W. Pittman, the executive who largely led its birth. I too was doubtful at first they'd induct a TV exec, but Pittman apparently proved his bonafides as a radio programmer and disc jockey before jumping to television, and more importantly, he's a member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame board. I'd say his induction is coming soon.

As for other non-performer inductees, howzabout one of the most influential writers in the industry, Lester Bangs?

Posted by MBI on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 19:49pm


Cheesecrop... interesting points, but I'd hope the board is a tiny bit more professional than that. Of course, the qualifier in that sentence is the word "hope." lol

Gitarzan, I know Ringo seems like a long shot, but aside from the Beatles, I think he has two other things in his favor: one, his rock 'n' roll of the '70's was a joie d'vivre rock'n'roll that was both a retro throwback to the early heroes (which was a popular movement in itself in the early part of the decade), and yet also almost against the grain in the fact that no one else really seemed to be latching onto that spirit, and certainly not as prodigiously. The problem with this argument, however, is twofold in that one, rock'n'roll with joie d'vivre seems almost heretical among the upper echelons of music afficionados; and two, it's not too innovative and the fact that it pretty much almost died with Ringo's career (but for Billy Joel in the early 80's) also argues against any influence.

The other thing is that musical therapy is a growing field and with songs like "Oh My My" and "A Dose Of Rock 'N' Roll", Ringo's music was among the first to support that notion beyond mere "pick me up" ideology. Of course, the argument here is that musical therapy isn't completely scientifically grounded yet, and anyone in the music industry would look at this and simply say "So what?"

So, I'd like think Ringo's eligibility is more than just he was a Beatle, but that fact alone may just get him solo induction, if indeed it does ever come.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 08.30.08 @ 23:30pm


Ringo doesn't have a shot. He didn't write his own music and he has zero critical respect as a solo artist. The idea is flatly ridiculous.

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 10:22am


Actually, the "rotten tomatoes" notion was from the comments I see about others' lists; some of which seem to ask nice, intellectual, sensitive questions like "ARE YOU ON CRACK?!" and get less polite from there. For all of those who displayed too much diplomacy to do that, I sincerely appreciate it.

As for the comment about my picks having their heydey from 1978 to 1982, I suppose it is half natural prejudice--it was when I started listening to rock and roll--and part was the notion that these would be the acts that would now be qualifying under the 30-year-from-first-recording window (which I now realize is a 25-year window) for eligibility.

So I will thus throw my virtual rotten tomato at myself.

Posted by Joe on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 19:49pm


The list of possible inductees I find a little strange.

it is hard to see Rush or the Hollies getting in after being overlooked so much, or to see Bon Jovi getting in before Def Leppard do (though I would not be surprised if the Leps do get in on the 2009/2010 ballot if not this year). As for Joy Division, they were unknown in the US during their lifetime, and their descendant New Order are already eligible and much more famous.

When I look for inductees, I tend to look at the music scene 25 years before the ballot.

This is why I feel that the Eurythmics, solo Tina Turner and solo Peter Gabriel may have a chance because they were becoming stars at this point. Iron Maiden and the Replacements, both of whom have votes from the nominating committee, may I feel get onto the ballot because of their important influence on important 1980s music trends that still resonates today.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Sunday, 08.31.08 @ 23:33pm


JPB...I think when New Wave hit The U. S., it brought Joy Division with it. People in the states were actually hearing bits & pieces of Joy Division and just didn't know it.

Herein lies the innovation and influence of that group...

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 08:16am


I do think the Stooges should be nominated. They've been around since the late 60's and also influenced a lot of punk groups that were very important like The Ramones, The Clash, and The Sex Pistols and they already got inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Also I think that Alice Cooper needs to be nominated he was really influential in Classic Rock and had big hits like School's Out and Poison. Then I also definitely think The Moody Blues should get inducted I mean they've been around since the mid 60's and they had big hits too including their song "Nights In White Satin." Oh and another group I'd like to be inducted into The Rock N Roll Hall of Fame is the group Love. Love and Arthur Lee may have been mostly underground and had one AM Radio hit but I heard that Arthur Lee & Love were a hudge influence to The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, and Pink Floyd and those three groups were inducted and I don't think The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, or Pink Floyd would've have been bands or artist if it hadn't been for Arthur Lee & Love. There are a lot of great bands out there who've not been inducted into The Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame that are overdue for an induction.

Posted by Sam Savage on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 12:40pm


JPB has made some interesting observations.

I had forgotten about The Eurythmics, clearly one of the better New Wave artists of their time and assuredly graeter than the sum of their parts. Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart captured a unique esthetic regarding electronics and human vocals that were and are still unmatched. These two need to be inducted as soon as they can, perhaps this coming induction even.

Regarding Tina Turner, I beleive she is already inducted. However, I would not object to inducting Turner again, and on her own account without Ike in tow. The unique thing is, at age 69 she still tours and is in great form.

Iron Maiden certainly has the credentials to be inducted, particularly with respect to the Bruce Dickinson led outfit. I am not certain that an induction is immediately forthcoming, however. As well, I have not been much of a keen listener of the Maiden, yet I do know there is a great following. The eventual induction may take a while to be realized.

JPB has finally mentioned The Replacements: the 1980s alt-rock band led by paul Westerberg, not the 2000 football film which was medicore in my eyes. Here is the quandary: if you know of The Replacements, you can realize their impact. Yet, for a band and later solo Westerberg, they did not generate massive album and tour sellings, let alone radio hit airplay (Bastards of Young an exception.) And as I mentioned, younger people think The Replacements is a football film, not a great band. Name recognition and a wider fan base for at least Westerberg's work is key to gain an induction in the near future.

Joy Division and New Order are interchangeable, save for Ian Curtis being in the former till his suicide. I do not know if they will be inducted however: especially as New Order, there is no individuality between the band members. As well, there appears to be a falling out between Bernard Sumner and Peter Hook which may have effectively derailed the band. One that is more wounding than Gillian Gilbert's departure some years back. Now, being disbanned, if you will, does not demean the induction if it ever comes through. But again, it wouldn't hurt to get them back to at least remenisce; the classic four of New Order that is. Well, Gillian Gilbert and Stephen Morris are married, so that is half the battle won.

Def Leppard deserve an induction. When or if it occurs remain to be seen; yet, they are one of the better hard rock acts of their time. They even managed to thrive and be excellent after Steve Clarke died of a drug overdose in 1991. As well, Rick Allen with only one arm is still a damn great drummer. They were also catchy with their hooks.

Bon Jovi (both the band and Jon Bon Jovi the brand name:) have a shot at induction. Yet, personally, I do not really have an interest in these guys. They certainly have crossed over a wide fanbase, give them that. And they are likable fellows and fine writers. But, I am just not into them. I will pass on these guys, for now that is.

As I mentioned before, Rush should be inducted fairly soon. Neil Peart is a thought provoking lyricist and amazing drummer; Alex Lifeson is a criminally underrated guitarist, composer, and synth player; and Geddy Lee is a pretty good Singer, composer, bassist, and keyboardist. For those who still cannot stand lee's voice, you are really out of date with the criticisms. Moving Pictures onward has Lee's voice refined and engaging, without the "banshee" voice detractors have labeled him with. The time should soon come for them to be inducted.

Now, onto the two I hope go in this year from my previous posts: First, The Hollies. Let me remind people that even after Graham Nash left the band, Terry Sylvester came in to fill the void and I beleive did exceptional work in both songwriting and performing. Bernie Calvert was still involved up till around 1981 (same with Sylvester) refining his bass and keyboard playing, if not his lack of singing and written works. Most importantly, there was still Tony Hicks, very underrated in The Hollies himself, let alone fellow artists in his field. At least to emphasize the fact that post-Nash Hollies were important equally as Nash-era Hollies, the band needs to be inducted.

Finally, it is looking more and more certain that Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Class of 2009. What I will mention is regarding Cheesecrop's lumping in Genesis (amongst others) with noted pablem such as the new tween movement and other crap. It would be funny if it were not so stupid to lump them in. You see, we all know that Peter Gabriel and the classic Peter Gabriel-Steve Hackett-Tony Banks era of Genesis ranks right up there with the greats of British rock artists, if not worldwide, of any and all eras. i do see why some may put Genesis post-Gabriel as part of that grouping; I think you are wrong, but I do see it. But nonetheless, Gabriel's body of work and deeds lasts and expands upon interests and fans; other contemporaries do not after a time. Thus, the time has now finally come for Peter Gabriel to take his place alongside the fellow greats of his field. (As a side note, post-Roy Wood ELO is legitimate in getting lumped in. Fine, yet reather slight.)

Well, if you have read this far, you now know my opinions on these matters. I do hope you have enjoyed reading this as I have enjoyed writing this.

Clone Wars is not Star Wars,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 19:32pm


Peter Gabriel has been eligible for 6 years. What makes this year different? Lax25 - how can you be so confident he'll get in?

Posted by AlexM on Monday, 09.1.08 @ 20:55pm


AlexM, two important landmarks of Peter Gabriel's career have been reached this year:

First, Gabriel was listed in May as one of Time Magazine's 100 most influential people; his entry coming in the Heroes and Pioneers field with the entry written by Archbishop Desmond Tutu. Go check it out online; it is there. With that, he is on the cover, which is impressive for any individual. And Gabriel was present to receive an award from Time last May at a dinner fundraiser in New York.

Second, and more importantly, Gabriel took a route that Phil Collins did nine years ago: have a song and some creative impact in a film from The Walt Disney Company. Only this time, Gabriel did it better by having it be a Pixar film, and that film "Wall-E" being one of the better films of this year. With over $200,000,000 accumulated, it has far outshown "Tarzan" in both popularity and artistic merit. And quite frankly, the song Gabriel wrote alongside Thomas Newman, "Down to Earth", is a shoo-in to win the Academy Award for Best Song: to say nothing of "Wall-E" possibly winning Best Animated Film and other potential nominations, if not wins.

As a bonus, by October, the back catalogue of Gabriel-Hackett-Banks era Genesis will be finally released in newer form. This includes the anticipatory 5.1 DVD release of "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway". Also, go check on the impact Gabriel has attempted to bring forth the "Elders" projects. It certainly expands upon levels outside of the rock world, if you will.

Well, there is your answer. What should have been done six years ago is being done now; in no small part due to Time and "Wall-E". I can only hope that this induction is the spark that seriously considers other contemporaries of Peter Gabriel in his fields to be inducted. We shall see.

Hope springs eternal,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 06:29am


LAX25:

Upon looking at your post I have two things to ask here:

1. Did you not realize that this was meant as gentle sarcasm?

2. If you do feel that way about Genesis being above "noted pablem such as the new tween movement and other crap" may I ask what crap that is? Iggy, Alice, ELO, Trower, etc. is what I jokingly listed along w/ the tween music. If this IS the other "crap" your against, then I say you've put one heck of a bulls-eye on your front/side/rear. Prepare for bombardment.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 07:45am


Lax25 - thanks for your elaboration on Peter Gabriel.. But shouldn't that qualify Randy Newman? He's one of the most heralded song writers ever, and still comes out with new albums.

Posted by AlexM on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 08:03am


Greg I just want to appologize I thought the Mama's and the Papa's only released 3 albums. I was wrong and it was actually 5. I guess I just forgot about the termendous success and album sales that came from the last two albums and the all there big time hits outside of California Dreamin & Monday, Monday. They are truely FOLK LORE and Music history. Not to mention, outside of those two songs you hear everyday on radio to this date.
As for my crush on Steve Perry and the rest of the Journey members. Yeah see your right I think Steve Perry has the best male voice in Rock Music history, my opinion. However, you know Neal Schon at the age of 15 was tourning with Santana and turning down Eric Clapton for the position he offered him in Derrick and the Dominos. Lets get back to Steve Perry. I'm sorry I don't have a man crush on him. See I am fine with Journey without Steve Perry, after he deserted them twice. You can't deny if he wouldn't have left Journey the two times and they released what 3-6 more albums with him they would be in the R&R Hall of Fame. I will let you know that I was a huge fan of Steve Augeri and he was given the credit he was due. Arrival was a great album and still today is my 2nd Favorite Journey Album. Not to mention as I stated Arnel Pineda has done a great job in the studio and live in concert, which have been selling out all over. Plus, currently the song After All These Years on billboards AC chart is number 10. Plus the new Revelation album is also number 1 again on the Top Independent Album's on billboards charts. Like I pointed out on the last posting, VH1 has listed Don't Stop Believin' as being one of the 10 most inflentual songs of the 1980's. Let me leave you with these two points to show you why Journey should be in the R&R HOF and the legacy they will leave. First, Faithfully was the most played/theme for High School Prom's in the 1980's. Also, one of the most often songs played for first dances for Weddings. Lastly, lets take the two very successful music groups and perhaps there most successful singles: Kansas-Carry On Wayward Son and Rush-Tom Sawyer. While tourning with Journey in 1976, Kansas requested the use of the song I'M GONNA LEAVE YOU from the Look Into the Future album and used it as the major motif for "Carry On Wayword Son". Furthermore, like wise Rush did the same thing with "Tom Sawyer" which was used from the song NICKEL & DIME from the Next album. So not only do they have there own rock classics like Lights, Wheel in The Sky, Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin' and Don't Stop Believin', they also created the music to the rock classics Carry on Wayward Son and Tom Sawyer. I guess that doesn't compair to giving a poor performance on the very stage of the International Monterey Pop Festival which they helped create.

Posted by Steve on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 11:48am


My choices
1. Journey
2. Heart
3. Bon Jovi
4. Metallica
5. Jimmy Buffett
6. Kiss
7. Run-DMC
8. Lionel Richie
9. Phil Collins
10. Foreigner

Posted by Steve on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 11:52am


Ahahahaha! Nice one, Steve.

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 12:14pm


Eurythmics would be nice to see in the hopper.

Posted by Matt Chojnacki on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 14:17pm


Cheesecrop, I noted your sarcasm.

Artists such as Iggy Pop, Alice Cooper, Robin Trower, and Roy Wood-era Electric Light Orchestra will be remembered for their exceptional careers long after the tween phase leaves us. By contrast, some of their contemporaries including Alan Parsons, Norman Greenbaum, Iron Butterfly, and OMD will fade from the pages of time to some extant. If you can remember whom those last four artists mentioned are, you are one lucky fellow. The first four are great rockers: the last four could not even hold their own. What is worse, at times poorer artistic acts copy the styles of freater artists. For example, did you ever notice that OMD's "Forever Live and Die" lifts the structure and wording of Toto's "Rosanna"? Well, I have; and "Rosanna" holds on to live another day. Going further a bit, a song entitled "Sideshow" sounds erilly similar to what the Stylistics were doing: only it is not the Stylistics, and it is lyrically juvenile.

AlexM, I agree with you regarding Randy Newman. He should already be inducted. Four years ago, Newman almost was, having been a finalist for the Class of 2005. Yet rather sadly, he was not inducted and has not been on a finalist ballot since. Randy Newman is well deserved. I would say, though, that due to a universal reverance that Peter Gabriel enjoys, not to just mention his humanitarian and outside recording ventures, and a newer generation of fans of his emerging, both young and old alike; Gabriel goes in the Hall of Fame at this time. An induction in the Class of 2009, with all these entangibles, seems certain.

Steve, regarding your list of whom you would want inducted, I would say that nine of the ten are deserving of induction at some point. One of them is not. I'll give you a hint: the FAX incident.

Well, thus ends another post. To paraphrase Don Lafontaine, "In an age where oversight is corrected, one man will be inducted to spark the reawakeing of the one form misunderstood in the field of his work..." I realize that was medicore, but it is all in jest.

Oh, I must be leaving,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 17:18pm


Lax25,
Sorry not sure what you mean about the FAX incident or just not getting the clue.

I also agree with Def Leppard: Alice Cooper & Randy Newman.

There are so many groups that changed music history with their styles that could and should be inducted. People like Motorhead and even the Beastie Boys. I don't like either but they did change musical history. Finally, I didn't see his name in the list of people inducted and not sure if he is eligible yet but if your talking about people like Greg said Mama's and Papa's started the International Montaray Pop festive and Peter Gabriel (In Your Eyes to me one of the best songs EVER) with his work with Desmond Tutu, but Bob Geldof (sorry spelling might be wrong) is one of the words most influential artists.

Somebody stated no to Mariah and Celine, I was wondering what people thought about Whitney Houston.

Posted by Steve on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 17:52pm


I would think Whitney Houston would have a better shot than someone like Mariah Carey or Celine Dion. Yeah, she's kinda fallen to the background these last several years, but she was pre-those ladies. Like the other ladies (and other big-voiced ladies), more often than not the material itself was viewed as lightweight, glossy, etc.- but, she was The Voice, and she set a template for that kind of style to follow.

Her first recording was the duet with Teddy Pendegrass, which was released commercially in 1984- so that would make her eligible next year, for the2010 ceremony- not expecting a nomination, though.

Posted by JR on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 18:08pm


Steve, let me rephrase the Fax incident:

The artist in question ended a relationship with a significant other in marriage by a letter sent on a Fax machine; berating the significant other in a manner that at least in the artist's home country if not the other areas of this world has damaged the artist's standing with a longer-standing fanbase at that time.

I think that in a few years' time, Sir Bob Geldof may be inducted. It would be a wise choice. Interestingly, I would induct both Geldof and Midge Ure, since both men were the creative forces behind Band/Live Aid/8. In addition, while Geldof has had fine songs in his career, Ure has had a plethora of works that are not regularly discussed in recent years. Nonetheless, both were hugely influential.

So perhaps in a year's time, Sir Bob Geldof and perhaps Midge Ure will be considered seriously. As for now, Peter Gabriel, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Donna Summer, The Hollies, and either Carly Simon or the Eurythmics, preferbly the Eurythmics, will be inducted into the Class of 2009. Well, Gabriel I beleive will be inducted. The rest is anyone's guess; though it is, I think, an exceptional class of artists to induct.

Giving away the secret,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 19:14pm


if the hall is considering sub genres then i think that Dolly Parton deserves some recognition. she's done the whole country cross over thing and she's got enough influence, and album sales to boot

Posted by Charlotte on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 22:11pm


Oh please. There are only two reasons Dolly would ever be considered.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 09.2.08 @ 22:34pm


1 srv (sympathy vote)
2 Metallica
3 RUN DMC
4 Bon Jovi
5 stooges
6 Rush
7 genesis
8 Journey (allot of press for them recently)
9 Judas Priest
10 Scorpions

Posted by mairtin on Wednesday, 09.3.08 @ 07:24am


Alright, time to predict who here will be the most disappointed with the nominees list. I'll go with a Rush fan.

Posted by Casper on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 03:30am


I think Rush has become the Hard/Prog Rock version of the Herman's Hermits. I am not quite sure why.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 05:27am


My predictions

1) DONNA SUMMER (should be inducted)
2) Peter Gabriel (should be inducted)
3) Eurythmics (should be inducted)
4) Chic (should be inducted)
5) Kraftwerk (should be inducted)
6) Beastie Boys
7) Run DMC
8) Bon Jovi
9) ELO

Posted by Kieran on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 14:26pm


Me Again!

Casper and Dameon have been alloted their positions regarding Rush. Here is mine:

A good deal of fans are already dissapointed to note that Rush may not get in sooner than we hope. Dave Marsh, the noted rock journalist/reviewer and member of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation, once stated that as long as he was alive, Rush would never get in. Well, in my view, Marsh has never been the pop equivalent to Roger Ebert/Gene Siskel, or going back a few decades, Pauline Kael and James Agee. So, what does he know?

Secondly, I initially balked at the comparisons between Rush and Herman's Hermits. Both, by the way, deserve induction. Yet, I could see why some would liken the two acts. Both have been clearly misunderstood in their approaches to their craft, and at times their ambitions are not at all dense with respect to the music-buying public overall. Yet, lyrically, Herman's Hermits dealt with Anglo-Saxon manners, wheras Neil Peart's writing is more deep, if you will. Therefore, I would surmise that Rush would go in, if ever, before Herman's Hermits get to be inducted.

Now, Kieran's list of whom he would want to see nominated and inducted runs very akin to what I have envisaged. I have already announced my preferences for Peter Gabriel (a virtual lock) and Donna Summer (should be a virtual lock) going in this year. I do hope that the Eurythmics go in as well. And you have already heard my opinion of Bon Jovi, who might go in but not right now. Let me espouse upon the five I have not discussed at hand.

The Beastie Boys are certain to garner attention this time out as was the case last year. I do hope these guys are inducted very soon. Yet, I did not detect any individuality with the Beastie Boys; it is not a problem, but I still have a bit of trouble figuring out who is who. A word of notice, though: I do not think the Beastie Boys want to be reminded of "License to Ill", despite it being their breakthrough work. I could see why there may be a smidgen of timidness when explaining "No Sleep Till Brooklyn", or their involvement in how the music video for "Fight for Your Right" did not entirely bring them immediate street credibility.

Frankly, I would induct Run-DMC before the Beastie Boys; mainly for adding a harder rock esthetic to old-school rap. Yet again, nothing by the guys individually stood out, and I should admit that their immediacy declined a bit before Jam Master Jay was killed. Nonetheless, for old-school rappers, they certainly rocked with the best of them: very ingenious in the early forms of sampling as well.

Electric Light Orchestra does not get much love from many pop enthusiasts, let alone writers and reviewers. This might be because of the rather jarring differences from "No Answer" to the change beginning with "ELO Part 2": Roy Wood being on the first album, then leaving before the second album was complete, appearing on only one or two songs. You see, ELO started as an outfit for more classical based songs that was not in tune with The Move, Roy Wood's first band and stupidly undervalued by many. once Wood left ELO, Jeff Lynne wisely and naturally took over the reins at all positions, and rightly so. Yet, given Lynne's fascination with all things Beatles, one could be wanting the real thing as opposed to the spiritual sucessor. This does not change the fact that ELO need to be inducted, if only for their Roy Wood period if so given.

I do agree that Kraftwerk need to be inducted, this year hopefully. Here is the problem, though: despite the influence in many fields since their debut, a great deal of music listeners might wonder who they are. And let us not kid ourselves: Ralf Hutter, Florian Schneider, Wolfgang Flur, and Karl Bartos do not grant interviews on even a quasi-regular basis. In concert, they have been content to tap on their laptop conputers, and only sparringly show themselves. An induction, though, I think is forthcoming, but I will be pleasantly suprised if Kraftwerk are inducted at all.

Now, Regarding Chic: this induction should have been done years ago. There is no need to wait any longer. Tellingly, the influence of Chic goes well beyond their albums and concerts. It delves, I think, right through the influence of any form of recording Nile Rodgers has been involved with, along with in their lifetimes Bernard Edwards and Tony Thompson. What I am saying is; when Chic is inducted, any substantive work that Rodgers, Edwards, and/or Thompson were involved with gets considerable attention, as it should be. Plus, Nile Rodgers has interesting stories to tell of how certain songs came to be; it is quite interesting.

Okay, now that I have written my piece, I should disclose my revised list of Hall of Fame inductees to the Class of 2009. I still think Bernie Taupin and/or Quincy Jones need to be inducted in the Non-Peformers category. For Performers, I will go with Peter Gabriel, the Eurythmics, Donna Summer, Chic, and Yusuf Islam a.k.a Cat Stevens. I would consider Kraftwerk for a dark horse sixth pick, and The Hollies as a potential spoiler, but I think kieran's five choices are correct for the most part. I just think that that Cat Stevens is more deserving of an immediate induction than Kraftwerk, which will come in due time.

Not an eighth husband named Henry,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 16:49pm


For 2009, here are my predictions:

Sonic Youth
Beastie Boys
Alice Cooper
Bon Jovi
The Hollies
Stevie Ray Vaughan

Posted by alt rock fan on Thursday, 09.4.08 @ 19:03pm


The Hall is a joke....how can you not have Deep Purple, Kiss, Genesis, Jeff Beck, Lou Reed, The Stooges, The New York Dolls, Alice Cooper, etc. in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? There is so much musical influence there it's not funny!! The Hall doesn't have it priorities straight!

Posted by Mike on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 09:39am


Mike...your statement has been made so many times...almost word for word...that we should just make it into a "form" comment and let everyone "in the know" about rock music add their name to it.

Getting an answer from the "powers-that-be" is going to be the hard part...they're right and we're wrong!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 09:46am


The powers that be are listening. Their just doing so quite slowly. The people who write in here are making a difference, if for only one reason - hype. The Hall wants people to talk about it, if only for the fact that it will generate interest, which hopefully transforms into cash at the door.

Wenner & the boys are riding a narrow tightrope. On one hand they don't want to let certain acts in too fast, lest they lose the controversy angle. On the other hand, not letting them in will drive away any potential public they hope to lure in down the line. The clear beneficiaries of this right now are Rush. The cover article is a sign that things are starting to break for them. It will be slow & gradual, but it's happening.

There are people who are silently looking at this site w/out leaving comments. Let's credit them w/ half a brain on that. They know...

Posted by Cheesecrop on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 10:24am


Cheesecrop makes a very astute observation on how the tide has begun to turn.

I'll let in you in on a old thought I had: not once that I ever beleive that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame would induct Leonard Cohen. For all that Cohen has done and still does, it seemed, to me at least, that because he did not fit the "saviour of rock" moniker that in both style and hype that was first given to Bruce Springsteen and thereafter any Springsteen-esque artist, the Hall of Fame Foundation would have balked at having Leonard Cohen inducted without batting an eye. Indeed, Future Rock Hall did not consider Cohen a predicted finalist for induction, let alone an inductee. Well, not only did Leonard Cohen go on the ballot last year; he easily got inducted, with Lou Reed inducting Cohen no less.

At that point, the Hall of Fame could not ignore an integral part of literate singer-songwriters whom have been influential. With this having occured, I feel that the powers that be have gone on a path to correct numerous oversights in whom are inducted. Now, unlike Cheesecrop, I do not think that Rush are the main figures of this corrected oversight; yet, they are certain to be inducted very soon.

As I have mentioned before, the one inductee for the Class of 2009 that has been eligible and is now being recognized as amongst the best is Peter Gabriel. As well from what I mentioned, Time Magazine named him this May amongst the 100 most influential people in the world: that recognition, I beleive, has sent the induction for Gabriel to be fully realized before the end of this year. (To note: Bruce Springsteen was also listed amongst the Time 100, just for good measure.)

Peter Gabriel's induction also is the sign that progreesive art rock, the field which he started in during his Genesis period, can no longer be marginalized to the background. For far too long, the sub-genre has been misunderstood, really; not all art rock resembles Rick Wakeman, for example. Gabriel, in particular, managed to cross over multiple formats without compromising his originality. I note that "Sledgehammer", for instance, was number one on the pop charts; wheras many of his fellow contemporaries never made it that far to score a number one song and/or album (Roxy Music would easily come to mind due to Bryan Ferry's Sophisti-Pop innovations.) And as Steve mentioned a few posts ago, "In Your Eyes" is amongst the best love songs I have heard; it certainly brought one of my favored movies, "Say Anything", to a greater level of excellence.

So again, the tide has begun to turn. With the imminent induction of Peter Gabriel to the Class of 2009, joining alongside I beleive other luminaries as Donna Summer, The Eurythmics, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Chic, and other greats to be inducted like Rush, Kraftwerk, Metallica, Run-DMC, Iggy Pop, Tom Waits, etc. etc., the fulcrum has begun to reach a point favorable to our sensibilities. As I mentioned, the first five artists I named will be inducted, I beleive, while the other candidates will go in in interesting classes and formats for years to come. Yet as always, it starts with the ones that need induction to correct the oversight. Peter Gabriel, Donna Summer, The Eurythmics, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), and Chic are those that will permanantely tilt the fulcrum to the side of the fans, in my opinion and willingness.

Certain of a brighter era for us all,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 18:55pm


Kiss and Journey should be in!

Posted by Don on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 19:47pm


Cheap Trick needs to be inducted soon. They're one of the most underrated bands on this site.

Posted by Oliver on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 20:19pm


Well, as everyone knows, there is only one opinion that is relevant to who should and should not be in the Hall. And everyone knows (what, you don't?) I am referring to...BLAST IN THE PAST COLLECTABLES!

Yes, I'm being facetious. BitP is a little store in metropolitan Detroit that sells vinyl, CDs, DVDs vintage toys, and assorted...well, stuff. Their ad, along with an adult DVD sale (5 for $12!), is a announcing an "Artists that should be in the Rock n Roll (sic) Hall of Fame Special."

Their list, listed as "Eligible since 1988" (where, do you suppose, did they get that statistic?): Dolly Parton, Manfred Mann, Neil Diamond and Dionne Warwick. Make of it what you will.

Posted by Joe on Saturday, 09.6.08 @ 20:52pm


i think the rock hall should finally give the steve miller band the credit they deserve.

Posted by Harold on Sunday, 09.7.08 @ 18:26pm


Donna Summer came close last year and should definitely get in for 2009. Donna after all was the original queen of pop! Her career is almost identical to Madonna's, except Madonna had the power of the music video to help sell her records; Donna didn't- but she had the voice and great songwriting abilities to make fantastic music.

Posted by Tom on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 09:05am


My guesses, which are by no means likely, would go as follows:

Returning Nominees:
1. The Stooges (should benefit from having a lot of their longtime competition inducted last year, plus their performance at this year's induction ceremony).
2. Chic (my favorite of the four that didn't make it in this year).
3. Afrika Bambatta (still problematic, as he was hugely influential as a cultural figure in hip-hop, but not as much as an actual performer. but that influence was enormous, so he will probably get another shot).

Newly eligible:

4. Metallica (biggest name in heavy metal; a shoo-in for a nomination, but a dark horse for induction depending on the competition),
5. Run-DMC (again, biggest name in hip-hop so far eligible. will rightly take the Beasties place in the running).

Others:

6. KISS (arguably the biggest act to have never even scored a nomination. with all the bitching and moaning about the lack of "rock" nominees in the press last year, I could see them benefitting from that).
7. ABBA (with "Momma Mia" doing well in theaters, the time might be right for the power pop legends to score a much-delayed second nomination, probably taking Donna Summer's spot).
8. Joy Division (also benefiting from multimedia exposure with two recent films about the band).
9. Genesis (see the other comments about Peter Gabriel; I could see the Hall wanting to honor him and Phil Collins collectively, just to get them both in at once).

Posted by Ian on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 10:43am


I understand the point of view that says pop artist who are nominated may send the wrong message to simply the meaning of rock and roll, but the influence that whitney houston has had is undeniable. What donna summer tried to do, whitney houston accomplished, and created a whole new genre(which at times was a little cheesy)but undoubtedly laid the foundation for popular music today....the first black woman to break down the mtv race barrier, and she became the first true pop female superstar....150 million sold, 11 number ones, 7 consecutive number ones, 25 top tens(which includes the national anthem), and a truly mezmerizing life story..which in itself correlates with rock and roll...she is legend, and undoubtdley a mark in pop,r&b, and rock and roll history.

Posted by dave on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 15:13pm


Not necessarily who I want to get in, but those I think will get nominated.

1) Stooges - Their influence cannot be denied and multiple nominations pretty much insures eventual induction.

2) Metallica - The most important metal band of the 80's, and possibly the 2nd most important metal band ever behind Black Sabbath.

3) Stevie Ray Vauaghan - More of a revivalist than an innovator, but he was most responsible for bringing blues rock back to the mainstream. Plus critics love him. His tragic death doesn't hurt his chances either.

4) Hollies - The Hall isn't done inducting 60's bands and their has been a major push for this band. They get a nomination at the very least.

5) Run D.M.C. - The first big Rap band. They helped break rap into the mainstream, fused rap and rock and helped revitalize the career of inductee Aerosmith. The hall will induct them before the Beastie Boys.

6) Kraftwerk - Innovators and highly influential.

7) Abba - A pop phenomenom, still hugely popular today. Any band that inspires a popular musical and popular film 25 years later is more influential than most think.

8) Donna Summer - Donna Summer and Chic are fighting it out to be the first Disco artist in the Hall, unless you count the Bee Gees. Just a hunch that she gets nominated this year over Chic.

9) Joy Division - They are the most important post-punk band out there and were highly influential to the goth movement, indie movement and what would become alternative. It will be interesting to see if they ever make it, but I think they eventually get nominated.

9b) Randy Newman - Could be the left field nomination this year.

Posted by ms.music on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 15:30pm


The 5 that get in:

Run D.M.C.
Metallica
The Hollies
The Stooges
Abba

Posted by ms.music on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 15:38pm


Can a multi-faceted act that is based on one word be inducted? Let us find out:

I would be enthusiastically pleased to see ABBA inducted in the Hall of Fame. Even if Agnetha Falkstog, Benny Andersson, Bjorn Ulvaerus and Anni-Frid Lyngstad did not bother to show up at the induction ceremony, I would still cheer their induction. Will they be inducted is another question. I do note that six years ago ABBA made it to the list of finalists, yet were not elected for induction in 2003. They have not been finalists since.

We need to also know that ABBA were considered light weight in their time. Not the case in any form; the tunes may have been bouncy, yet the lyrical content was deeply moving. As well, the dissolution of the internal relationships in the band provided a great deal of their excellent works. I am inclined to include the ABBA album that never was, "Chess": a fine concept that was at once forward looking and a look at what might have been had the four of them still recorded together. For this alone, ABBA will likely be inducted: though not in the coming year. Again, when it happens is a projection I yet to have.

Kiss is a band I have been rather blase about. certainly, the songs are quite good, the tours have been excellent, and Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley have been amongst the best in self-promotion and licensing. However, Kiss is an enigma; not many know what to make of them. That does not mean that it cancels out an induction. The knowledge that Jann Wenner among others are still baffled by Kiss does mean, though, that it may be a waiting period to last a while.

With respect to Stevie Ray Vaughan (1954-1990), it is very sad to realise that it has taken this long for the eligibility requirements to kick in. In this case, Vaughan in death receives a similar fate to that of Gram Parsons: a definite inductee that may get lost in the shuffle due to being dead. Personally, were I to bring forth an induction requirement for the Hall of Fame, I would make exceptions to more sooner induct artists that are no longer with us. To have eighteen years go by before even a serious consideration for induction is far too many years passed.

Now, on to another matter. I am of the opinion that Peter Gabriel going in the Hall of Fame in the Class of 2009 is for his entire body of work; including his yeard with Genesis, when it was beginning and the classic Peter Gabriel-Steve Hackett-Tony Banks lineup. Yet, it must be known that Genesis continued long after Gabriel, and then Hackett, departed. For that, Genesis could be inducted on its own accord, and I would support it.

Let me remind you that this is not a situation similar with Steve Winwood being inducted. You see, in that same class of finalists that ABBA was included with, so too was Steve Winwood. That was his first time being considered for his entire career and works. Interestingly, Winwood did not make it in for 2003. One year later, Winwood was inducted: only this time, it was under the Traffic moniker. Considering that Steve Winwood was essentially Traffic, and that his Traffic years were arguably his best work, it was Traffic that went in the Hall of Fame. Yet, it was the same as having Steve Winwood in full be inducted.

Of the four main individuals that have been associated with Genesis (Gabriel, Hackett, Banks, and Ray Wilson), only Tony Banks has been with Genesis their entire run. Heck, from 1978-1993, and again in the periods from 2006-2007, Tony Banks basically was Genesis. By contrast, Ray Wilson was involved from around 1997-1998, maintaining his own career after the stint. Steve Hackett left after 1977, and Peter Gabriel left after 1975. Since the end of an actively recording Genesis in the mid-late 1990s, all of the four have garnered added albums and works to their credit. Gabriel in particular has basically not performed his Genesis songs since roughly 1980 in tours and concert appearances.

As for Phil Collins: an induction for him with Genesis would suffice. His solo materials have been rather jarringly mixed. Some of it is great, while others feel like retreads. In my opinion, his output of songs has been of lesser quality since his departure from Genesis initially in 1993. Though, in recent years with the reunion of the Banks-era lineup, that could hopefully change. That is if Collins wants to go through with it again. On his own, however, I would not induct Phil Collins outside of Genesis. Subsequently, since Genesis is but a portion of Gabriel's and Hackett's records and tours and businesses, as wel as Wilson's and to an extant Banks', I would not just induct Genesis only.

To summarise, amongst equals, the one inductee in the Genesis tree that will be inducted into the Class of 2009 will be Peter Gabriel. In addition, I would like to see Genesis, Steve Hackett, and Tony Banks (Ray Wilson when eligible) inducted alongside Gabriel in the same Class of 2009. All will get in, I beleive. Yet, it all starts with Peter Gabriel. For that, it will Peter Gabriel that will be inducted in the Class of 2009; the first of what will be five inductions of the family tree.

Checkmate,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 19:21pm


Lax25...As far as Peter Gabriel goes, I don't know. There have been so many artists get in with less credentials (see Percy Sledge), but the HOF seems to be shying away from all things Genesis. I couldn't tell you why...

As for SRV, the main difference in him and Gram Parsons would be influence, I think. So many players list him as a main influence, plus the fact he gave an entire genre a shot in the armand brought it to a whole new generation of fans. His influence in the Blues is more far-reaching than Clapton, in my opinion.

As for ABBA and Donna Summer, they should've been inducted before Madonna...period!!! I will go so far as to add "for obvious reasons".

Posted by Gitarzan on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 19:36pm


A Ray Stevens reference in your name!

You know, you are correct regarding SRV's influence with respect to blues-guitar greatness. Long after his death, I do keep seeking out whom might be the spiritual sucessor to Stevie Ray Vaughan; I have not yet found it. My concern, though, lies with the fact that it all ended in 1990. Frankly, how do you explain SRV to someone that was not alive in his time?

Donna Summer will go in the Class of 2009, likely. The time has now come for her full body of songs and presence to be recognized.

Gram Parsons shouild be inducted. But again, Parsons died in 1973; sadly, as my name implies, I was not alive during his time. While I know and appreciate his life, others may not be fully aware. That clearly makes it more problematic than SRV's case, in which many of us posting did live to see his greatness for a time.

Regarding your concerns for Peter Gabriel, I do understand your doubts. However, in the fields of all things Genesis, Gabriel has been known to go beyond that classification. I mean to say that you could see a reviewer or enthusiast pass on Genesis; but they will listen to Peter Gabriel in large part for his unique approaches in his career and his songs. Remember, that it is Gabriel that has been amongst the great artists that have championed the cause for human rights worldwide. It is Gabriel that has been named amongst the Time 100, and put on its cover. And 10 years ago in a poll conducted by VH1 for the 100 Greatest Artists of Rock, it was Peter Gabriel that was on the list coming at #53. From that list, he is the one artist that is ranked the highest being eligible yet not inducted.

As well, it was Peter Gabriel that had the majority of innovative music videos and tours. And it was Peter Gabriel that wrote "In Your Eyes", which frankly is one of the best love songs ever recorded. To longer standing Genesis fans, it was Gabriel's stint with the band that made the band what it would become in its history.

Recently, it is Peter Gabriel that is in the news and getting the honors. And rightly so. Thus, with respect to what has going on these last couple of years, namely Time's 100 list mention and his work with "Wall-E", the time has come for Gabriel to be inducted. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2009 Performers Inductees will consist of: Peter Gabriel, Donna Summer, Chic, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), and The Eurythmics. All of them deserving. With Gabriel's induction in particular, an injustice will be corrected.

So said the lamb,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 20:13pm


What is wrong with the picture layed out above? Well, number 1, it includes artists like Chic, Run DMC, Kraftwerk, Donna Summer and the Chantels, Afrika Bambaataa none of which can be defined as Rock and Roll.

Number 2, how do you figure Bon Jovi is ready yet and not include bands like Journey, Styx, Yes, REO Speedwagon and Bad Company, that paved the way well before Bon Jovi ever hit the scene?

If the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame wants to be taken seriously and not the laughing stock they've become (Yes, listen to the talk from the average Rock fan on the street), they will stop Inducting non-rock artists, such as their biggest and most ridiculous addition yet, Madonna (I'm not taking anything away from her as she most definately had a huge hand in shaping 'Pop culture' over the last 25 years) and put the Rock back in Rock and Roll Hall of Fame by Inducting true Rock acts.

When I think of the next most deserving band of the last 35 years, that band without a doubt, is Journey. Their music trancends all generational barriers and inspires anyone who listens to them without preconceived notions.

Look at songs like 'Don't Stop Believin', 'Faithfully', 'Open Arms', 'Wheel In The Sky', 'Be Good To Yourself', 'Any Way You Want It', 'Who's Crying Now', 'Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)' and 'Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin', amongst so many others. These are undeniably amongst the most inspirational and well known songs of the past 30 years.

What band of it's genre creates more buzz and still pulls in decent crowds at their shows anywhere near that of Journey? This year, the band has come back big with it's newest CD "Revelation" and has consistently sold out venues across the US and Europe.

Sooner or later, the wannabe elites are going to have to come to the realization that Journey is one of the greatest Rock bands of all time and the timeless, heartfelt appeal of it's music deserves it's name to mentioned alongside the rest of the true Rock greats already enshrined in the "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame".

Posted by Rich Meyers on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 21:19pm


I love how some posts start out incredibly well written & coherently argued and then go on to list Journey as the most shameful omission.

There's some acts that just can't go in or the Hall loses all credibility. As cheesy as the Dave Clark Five & Mellencamp duo were, they were still very borderline. Putting in Journey, Bon Jovi, Heart or anything Phil Collins related would make the museum spontaneously combust, swallowing Cleveland in its entirety in a wildfire.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 21:53pm


love how some posts start out incredibly well written & coherently argued and then go on to list Journey as the most shameful omission.

There's some acts that just can't go in or the Hall loses all credibility. As cheesy as the Dave Clark Five & Mellencamp duo were, they were still very borderline. Putting in Journey, Bon Jovi, Heart or anything Phil Collins related would make the museum spontaneously combust, swallowing Cleveland in its entirety in a wildfire.

Posted by Casper on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 21:53pm


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow Dave Clark is the best .. They were along it from England with Beatles Stones ,Animals, Chad and Jerime. Who ,Them ,Kinks, Donavon and a few others...
I still enjoy them to this day their music is class and true British rock at its best...Are you ok.??????????????

Posted by mrxyz on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 22:50pm


OK, here we go! Ready?


Big Mama Thornton
Bow Wow Wow
Anne Murray
The Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band
Katrina and the Waves
Dr. Hook
Little Steven and the Disciples of Soul
Helen Reddy

and

Gary Lewis and the Playboys!!

Posted by joker on Monday, 09.8.08 @ 23:37pm


swallowing Cleveland in its entirety in a wildfire. (Casper)

Are you saying that this would be a bad thing?

October 1 - Echo and the Bunneymen at Radio City performing Ocean Rain. Looking forward to that.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 06:00am


I love how people complain about Madonna and the hiphop and rap acts but no one thinks to complain about, say, The Supremes. You gonna tell me they were "rock"? Where's the uproar over Bobby Darin, Johnny Cash, Etta James, Buddy Guy?

An induction of Genesis would be not an induction of Peter Gabriel. It would be an induction of Genesis. Gabriel's and Collins' solo work is pretty distinct in the minds of the average music critic from their work in Genesis. The Rock Hall has a well documented bias against prog that will keep out Genesis; if they do go prog, I have to imagine that Yes or the Moody Blues will be ahead of them in line. However, Peter Gabriel has enough mainstream cred that I think he might be able to do it solo, if not this year, then soon.

Posted by MBI on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 07:05am


This is off--topic for this thread, but I was hoping some of our distinguished commentators (who know more about music biz) could answer.

I was recently listening to Booker T. & the MGs greatest hits (all instrumentals) & I wondered what the procedure would be if someone wrote lyrics to those songs & then tried to record them (while giving all due recognition and royalties to the music writer).

Can anyone do that, or must they get the permission of the copyright holder to do that? Would it matter legally if say Bernie Taupin wrote the lyrics instead of nobody me?

Has Weird Al Yankovic received permission from those whose songs he parodies or does the fact that it is a parody mean he doesn't have to get their permission?

Posted by Paul in KY on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 09:06am


I Vote JOURNEY for Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Posted by VAL VANGELI on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 14:23pm


Good call MBI,

I would say half the inducties in the Rock and Roll Hall Of Shame are not rock. But my friend, it is way to late, the flood gates have opened and now any band or artist that recorded a song is eligible or discussed.

People on this site want Donna Summer, ABBA, The Back Street Boys, Anne Murray, Whitney Houston, Run DMC, Bow Wow Wow someone even mentioned Frank Sinatra for induction, what the f%*k are you kidding, Rock and Roll!

It's over dude, this big corporate, money making, rock and roll exploiting embaressment called the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame is bigger than all of us. You might as well be talking to a wall.

SpaceTrucker

"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice"
RUSH

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 16:58pm


Well, here is my prediction for the HOF. I don't think all of these will be put in, but I believe they should be:

1. Stevie Ray Vaughan: arguably the most influencial guitarist for the generation X.

2. Albert King: probably the most influencial guitarist of all time. Just listen to Hendrix, Clapton, and Vaughan and you will know what I mean.

3. Beastie Boys: they should have been put in last year, Madonna, yeah she is the true meaning of rock and roll, NOT!

4. The Stoogies: Another group that should've been in years ago.

5. Metallica: One the all time great Metal bands.

6. Rush: Their time is now

7. Gensis: One of the greatest progressive rock bands ever formed.

8. Donna Summer: One of the most influencial Diva's.

9. The Doobie Brothers: Another group who should have been put in long ago.


Posted by Mike on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 17:06pm


I wouldn't mind seeing Journey inducted for songs like "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)" but I wouldn't mind keeping them out for songs like "Open Arms" and "Faithfully."

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 17:13pm


Warren Zevon..

Posted by Tyler on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 17:36pm


i agree with pretty much everyone above, but what about Alice Cooper? someone show him some love. Eligible since 1993

Posted by Varun on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 17:45pm


So they met...




Let the snubbing begin.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 18:09pm


Casper
The only thing I can agree with you is that Cleveland could be flattened entirely and nobody would care. That was the worst weekend of trying to drive around a city I have ever experienced. Must be you are a scarey ghost instead of the nice ghost like your name sake. Please explain to me as to how groups like Bon Jovi, Heart, Phil Collins, or Journey are not deserving.

So the fact that Journey has sold over 75 million albums world wide, not deserving. The fact that they have had Albums and singles in the Top 20 of the charts for the 4 straight decades. Not many groups or artists can say that. The fact that the Greatest Hits has been on billboards charts for over 770 straight weeks. The fact that Journey and Heart along with Cheaptrick have been selling concerts out all over the country on there current tour, which happens to be 33 years since they first released their debut album Journey. You want the reason they aren't in the R&R Hall of Fame and these other groups aren't in the R&R Hall of Fame? The real reason is nobody in their groups died early, have overdosed, in trouble with the law every other day, or you know swear or use vulgar language every other word on their albums or in cocert. Thats because groups like Journey and the above mentioned, here is a strange concept these days, actually care about music and not being in the limelight everyday of their life. Not to mention parents can take their children to Journey, Heart, and Cheaptrick show any night of the week and see an amazing show and not worried about getting shot, run over, or have to leave because of them acting like asses and are respectful to their fans.
I guess by saying Phil Collins sucks then you say Genesis sucks. By saying Heart sucks your saying Ann Wilson has one of the worst female voices ever. By saying Journey sucks you mean Steve Perry is one of the worst voices and lead singers ever. Jonathen Cain is one of the worst song writers ever. Then I guess your saying that Neal Schon sucks which means that your saying that Carlos Santana sucks ass for having Neal join his band at age 15. That Eric Clapton and Derrick and The Dominos sucked for at the same time asking Neal Schon to join them. I guess you must be saying that Santana shouldn't be in the HOF because Greg Rollie sucked. Plus groups like Kansas and Rush must suck because the music of each bands most successful songs started out as Journey songs.
So please feel free to be so eloquent to tell us why acts like Journey, Bon Jovi, Heart, and Phil Collins suck and don't deserve to be in the R&R HOF. Please tell me who you like and think are deserving. I guess since you don't like a specific genre of music or group that you can't respect or at least their just due.
I don't like Hendrix, Joplin, Mama's and the Papa's, Nirvana, Beastie Boys but I atleast respect the fact they were great in their own way and might actually deserve to be in for changing music history.

Posted by Steve on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 18:27pm


To those of you who are clamoring for Journey to get inducted:

You are correct in that they should be in. Where we disagree is regarding their relative impact of being considered amongst the greats in their field. I will admit that Journey were amongst the best power balladeers in recent memory. Steve Perry, in particular, has a unique voice that has been rather undervalued by even a good deal of enthusiasts of music.

Now, let me say that Journey without Steve Perry is rather sub-par. Hearing some of their newer recordings, something in the lyrical and theatrical equation is missing. As well, I do not have a clue as to what Steve Perry may be up to for any newer works. Perhaps nothing immediate might come from him, which is understandable. I suppose that if Journey is ever going to be inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, the Hall will need to take Journey's music to a rather unique concept. Honestly, I am not sure of their induction at the moment.

Mike made a comment about inducting the Doobie Brothers. I will go one better: the time will soon come to induct Michael McDonald. In my view, the band was "just alright with me" when they started, became excellent when McDonald took the creative reins, and became plainly okay after he left. As it is, Michael Mcdonald has managed to do great works well after his stint with the Doobies ended. I cannot say the same on the overall regarding the rest of the "Brothers", though they did have some finer works after McDonald's departure.

MBI is correct in seeking for Yes and the Moody Blues to be inducted. it is perplexing that, in spite of this timidity regarding progressive art rock the Hall of Fame Foundation has, two of their greater acts have not yet been seriously considered. Do you suppose it is due to their lyricism and near virtuoso performing? I do not have a clue, to be frank about this.

Regarding MBI's comments with respect to Peter Gabriel, it is what I have been stating of the specifics in induction. As I mentioned before, unlike inducting Traffic and thereby inducting Steve Winwood, or the Sex Pistols and thereby inducting John Lydon (for the most part), inducting Genesis does not inducting Peter Gabriel; nor does it mean inducting Steve Hackett, or Ray Wilson for that matter. Heck, it does not even mean inducting Phil Collins' solo works. It could be synonomous in inducting Tony Banks, and perhaps even Mike Rutherford. But an induction of only Genesis would be self-contained, and only a fraction of the leading figures' exceptional and innovative output.

Let me state yet again that amongst the Genesis tree, and amongst the prog artists not yet inducted, Peter Gabriel has been a class above all else. And, he has the mainstream credibility (in my neck of the woods it is named street cred) and the worldwide music and humanitarian influence to prove it. As well, the commercial and touring sucesses are unparelleled.

If we know of one inductee in the Class of 2009 to go in at this time without problems, it is Peter Gabriel. This is his year, and subsequently the time for his era in Genesis to be inducted along with Gabriel's work. After a bit of a wait, Peter Gabriel will take his rightful place amongst the best in his field of music; it is an honor hard to come by, yet it is well deserved.

Here we stand,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 18:27pm


I thoroughly enjoy reading everybody's comments on their favorite and not-so-favorite bands and artists.

What you MUST keep in mind is that Inductees are NOT chosen based on number of album sales, nor #1 single(s), etc.

Bands and Artists are nominated and selected based on their INFLUENTIAL AND SIGNIFICANT INSPIRATIONAL IMPACT ON THE EVOLUTION, DEVELOPMENT AND PERPETUATION OF ROCK AND ROLL!

Signed;
I cannot tell you my name

Posted by Anonymous R&RHoF Selection Committee Member on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 18:42pm


You are full of crap. You nominate and induct based on your own little politics, otherwise bands like Deep Purple, ELP, Alice Cooper, King Crimson, The Stooges, Joy Division, The Dolls and a few others would alreayd have been in.

What significant anything did Percy Sledge bring to the game?

If you really are a member, then at least explain to us why we are all wrong when we say that you all have zero clue about what is real and what isn't.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 19:29pm


I will go one better: the time will soon come to induct Michael McDonald. In my view, the band was "just alright with me" when they started, became excellent when McDonald took the creative reins (Lax25)

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! He killed that band.

Posted by Dameon on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 19:32pm


Steve...I don't pay much attention when someone says an artist/group "sucks", but there have been good arguments raised, both pro and con, on why they should or shouldn't be inducted. I sometimes like to argue why someone got in...that might be an easier way to see how the "powers-that-be" think.

Sometimes it just comes down to "I don't like them", which makes giving a learned opinion harder, but shouldn't take away from an effort to at least try.

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 19:32pm


INDUCT CHICAGO GODDAMNIT!!!

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:04pm


Dameon, Michael McDonald did not kill the Doobie Brothers. He did make it into his own, in a more interesting fashion. Their styles without him just were not appealing. Unlike, say, Tony Banks' keyboard playing defining Genesis with and without Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett, I cannot think of any defining output from a Doobie that was not McDonald.

Not the answer you were looking for,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:04pm


Steve,

Can you please explain your post of:

"Plus groups like Kansas and Rush must suck because the music of each bands most successful songs started out as Journey songs"

WHAT?

The "Anonymous R&RHoF Selection Committee Member" posting is crap and nobody should believe it until they identify themselves.

All this B.S. about a group or artist that has INFLUENTIAL AND SIGNIFICANT INSPIRATIONAL IMPACT ON THE EVOLUTION, DEVELOPMENT AND PERPETUATION OF ROCK AND ROLL is crap and does not hold up with some of the current inductees.

If a group or artist played kick ass rock and roll, had a solid body of work and entertained millions of people all over the world then they should be considered. The people make bands popular.

More Power To The People!

SpaceTrucker

"There's money in them war machines now ain't that a bitch"

Grand Funk Railroad

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:11pm


Michael McDonald was responsible for turning a free wheeling good time rock and roll band into an overproduced preconceived adult contemporary morass.

No way should Mr. McDonald be inducted.

Posted by clasicrocker on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:12pm


The Doobie Brothers became a huge band way before Michael McDonald and they disappeared not long after he joined them.

Your right Dameon, Michael McDonald did kill The Doobie Brothers case closed.

SpaceTrucker

"Whoa, listen to the music"
The Doobie Brothers

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:21pm


Well, even if the Doobie Brothers get inducted, you do induct Michael Mcdonald. So you may as well induct him on his own merits then.

Consensus is a key to being inducted. We may disagree on the merits of Michael McDonald. yet we are on the same wavelength regarding Peter Gabriel and fellow contemporaries. We know that Gabriel will be inducted, and deservedly so. We are no sure yet regarding McDonald; which will make for an interesting debate.

It will come back to us all,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:26pm


KING CRIMSON!!!!!!!!111111oneoneone

Posted by yeah.... on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:27pm


Ok, part of what enables an artist/s to be nominated are what contributions they brought to music and the music industry.

That being said, Journey was the first group to use video screens at their live shows. Which is a mainstay now at any concert you attend.

Journey was also the first artist to get corporate sponsorship for a tour.

Journey is the 29th all time album sales artist.

Journey's song "Don't Stop Believin" is now a rock anthem. See the final episode of the "Soprano's".

Whether you like or dislike the music itself is a side point compared to what the Hall's qualifications for an inductee should be.

Journey has made contributions to music, and their contributions have become a standard in the music industry to this day.

PUT JOURNEY IN THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME!


Posted by vincent on Tuesday, 09.9.08 @ 20:40pm


People, listen!!!

The reason why Michael McDonald joined the Doobie Brothers in late '75/early '76 was because founding member Tom Johnston had a stomach ulcer and was to ill to play live. So Jeff "Skunk" Baxter called up Michael McDonald, who had previously worked with Baxter in Steely Dan, and asked him to join the Doobie Brothers while Johnston was in convalescence from his ulcer.

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 01:28am


it's simple but DISGRACEFUL, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
and who made the most for the business.Just realize this, it's SO obvious!!Disco is RECORDED NOISE, not music,so stop insulting actual musicians.Go to a dumpster, tip it over, put it on plates and tell everyone it's gourmet food... no difference.Greed is the reason,it's truely sickening.

Posted by kas on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 01:54am


There was nothing interesting about Michael McDonald. I sit and talk music with many people and when the conversation turns to the Doobies, everyone agrees that M.M. killed one hell of a fun band. The key word being "fun".

Dameon, Michael McDonald did not kill the Doobie Brothers. He did make it into his own, in a more interesting fashion. Their styles without him just were not appealing. (Lax25)

For you to say that their style prior to MM was unappealing tells me that you were not around in 1973-74. Every park party I went to usually had a moment where everyone started singing along to Black Water. Let me tell you, 40 or 50 kids singing Black Water in Bronx Park on a Saturday night was a sight to be seen (I think for some, it might have been a nightmare). Either way, it sure seemed like the Doobies had appeal. I never saw any group of kids singing "Takin it to the Streets". Not even at their concerts.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 06:18am


How about a little love for the Appice brothers of NYC, Carmine and Vinnie. Two tough Italian kids from the neighborhood. And they both can hit those skins.

Hey - I gotta stick up for my boys.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 06:26am


According to MSN senior music producer Sam Sutherland, A number of perennial fan favorites long ignored by the Hall — Rush, the Moody Blues, Chicago — shouldn't raise their expectations, Sutherland says. Their disconnect with the critics and executives who dominate the nominating committee is still in strong effect. But he holds out hope for one long-overlooked legend, Neil Diamond.

Chicago is mentioned as a "holdover."

From a recent interview with Chicago:

Robert Lamm said: I have been told by members of the Board who I'm acquainted with that Chicago's name does come up year to year. We have kind of gone through the whole vetting process but we've just never made it through to number one.

Posted by Roy on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 06:46am


Here's who the Rock Hall should consider for Induction in 2009

Nominees

Bon Jovi
Metallica
Rush
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Stooges
Run DMC
Beastie Boys
Genesis
Alice Copper

Inductees

Bon Jovi
Metallica
Stevie Ray Vaughn
Run DMC
Stooges

Other Artist they should be nominated if not the nine from above

Def Leppard
Kiss
Judas Priest
Ringo Starr
The Cars
Sting
Janet Jackson
Dire Straits
Peter Gabriel
Journey
Moody Blues
Chicago
Doobie Brothers

Posted by Kyle on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 07:19am


In terms of the Pop Metal/Arena Rock genre only:

if bon Jovi is inducted before Cheap Trick, Def Leppard or Motley Crue - then the HoF is a total sham.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 07:57am


What Bon Jovi has going for them, induction-wise, is that lyrically they've always tried to be a hair-metal Springsteen. The committee eats that heartland stuff up.

But seriously: They're hair-metal. It'll be a long damn time before they induct a hair-metal band, no matter how long they've been around. Every band that's still touring after 25 years has their fanbase clamoring to see them inducted - I mean, they're still around selling sold out shows! They've got to be inducted, right? No. No they don't. It's not about longevity to these people. It doesn't hurt, certainly, but it doesn't matter that they're still around if the committee members didn't give a shit about them to begin with. Journey, Chicago, Bon Jovi, Neil Diamond, Rush -- they're not getting in. (Maybe Rush.) They just don't have the critical appeal.

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 09:36am


Spacetrucker yes I can. I will take the section of my previous posting to explain this. I hope this makes a little more sense for you.

Lets take the two very successful music groups and perhaps there most successful singles: Kansas-Carry On Wayward Son and Rush-Tom Sawyer. While tourning with Journey in 1976, Kansas requested the use of the song I'M GONNA LEAVE YOU from the Look Into the Future album and used it as the major motif for "Carry On Wayword Son". Furthermore, like wise Rush did the same thing with "Tom Sawyer" which was taken/used from the song NICKEL & DIME from the Next album. So not only do they have there own rock classics like Lights, Wheel in The Sky, Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin' and Don't Stop Believin', they also created the music to the rock classics Carry on Wayward Son and Tom Sawyer.

The other group is KISS. Who changed music more when it came to merchandising. Plus, who has a more loyal following than the KISS ARMY. Not to mention they have some of the biggest Rock anthems ever.

Finally, I'm not the one that said these groups were subpar at best. I was just making comments as to how important/influential people like Phil Collins, Ann Wilson, and the members of Journey past and present are when it comes to Rock music. I guess the words suck were taken out of context from a comment by Anonymous R&RHoF Selection Committee Member.

Vincent very good posting.


Posted by Steve on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 10:36am


Steve,

Thanks for the reference. I am a Journey fan pre Steve Perry. I listened to Nickel and Dime and here a similar riff to Tom Sawyer. Did you speak to Geddy, Neil or Alex and did they say this is where they got Tom Sawyer from? Or is it just a coinsidence that happens all the time in music.

If you love Journey and want them in the hall that's cool. But claiming that they are responsible for all these other bands is a little over the top.

Rush has been recording kick ass Rock and Roll for over 35 years and to say one riff from a Journey song influenced them is really stretching it.

SpaceTrucker

"Carry on my wayward son"

Kansas

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 11:18am


Bon Jovi's song "Wanted Dead Or Alive" has more similarities to the Eagles than Springsteen. In fact "WDOA" was the first song written for what would become "Slippery When Wet" BJ originally wanted to do a concept album a la the Eagles "Desperado" but later scrapped the idea. "Wanted Dead Or Alive" sounds like an outtake from "Desperado" with the cowboy being a metaphor for a rock star.

Posted by Aaron O'Donnell on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 13:44pm


NO JOURNEY IN THE HALL OF FAME
IS A FARCE AND A SHAME

Posted by Noel Vincent on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 14:14pm


I find it amusing to hear people whine because the R&R Hall of Fame is all inclusive yet they want to induct EVERY band that has had 3 songs played on Classic Rock radio.

Posted by ms.music on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 16:23pm


Dameon:
Yes, I'll admit that there is a degree of politics involved in the whole nomination and selection process. however, it is not politics initiated by the R&RHoF Foundation, but more so of the nominating committee members. You see, the nominating committee members number in the hundreds and hundreds of music, production, publishing and business professionals. It is amongst this vast group of biased professionals that the "politics" emerge. The R&RHoF Foundation spends a great deal of time weeding through their "BS" to arrive at a coherent and managable list that becomes the final (yet tentative) potential inductees.

Spacetrucker:
No, I cannot supply you with my identity, yet that should not (and does not) invalidate my explanation(s) of the processes involved here at the R&RHoF! I firmly believe that many (if not most all) of the groups and artists in question WILL eventually be inducted. It's a hugely intensive time consuming endeavor, to which I hope you can appreciate and understand!

Signed;
I cannot tell you my name

Posted by Anonymous R&RHoF Selection Committee Member on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 16:29pm


Hey, anonymous man, they picked the nominees yet?

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 17:04pm


MBI, I have heard that they will choose the nominees by the coming Monday, the fifteenth of September.

Ever since I heard the reduction in the number of artists on the ballot in 2006/2007, I have wondered if they will further reduce the number of inductees (say to four or even three per year) and the number of candidates on the ballot (say to six per year). I feel this possesses danger because too few artists would get a chance, and am thinking about positing alternative means of voting.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 17:21pm


Spacetrucker
The story about Carry on My Wayword Son and Tom Sawyer were both told by Neal Schon and Johnathen Cain during the Generations tour 3 years ago when they introduced the songs. Both are stated in the booklet from Journey's Time 3 booklet. Kansas actually asked for permission. According to the booklet for Tom Sawyer, it states that Rush constructed "Tom Sawyer" along suspiciously similar lines of Nickle and Dime. You even said it sounds familiar.

I didn't say that they created either band or there music. I just stated that Journey created the music to perhaps each groups biggest hits on radio.

Posted by Steve on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 18:17pm


RnR Hof Committee member: I understand that it is impossible to clear out the politics of anything in this world. Hell, even topless bars have politics in them, but what I still don't get is the absolute ignorance involved in this process when it comes to absolutes. There will always be questions for almost any band out there. But there are those few times when there are none, even to the blindest of rats.

Alice Cooper, Joy Division, The Stooges, King Crimson, X, ELP, NY Dolls, are such blatant omissions that it is ridiculous.

Until I see these band in, I will always hold the Hall and the foundation in contempt and will never step foot in that ugly building.

But thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

Posted by Dameon on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 18:23pm


It wouldn't suprise me if they did lower the # of potential candidates on the ballot down to five or less. Now that they've patted themsleves on the back for enshrining those they feel were worthy, it's time to lock the palace gates. The final inductee will be Marie Antoinette, who will tell the rest of the bands on the outside looking in to eat cake. She will then re-name the place the "Betty C(rock)er Hall of Fame". A few suggestions for the way some artists will handle their cake:

Alice Cooper will divide his w/ a guillotine

Iggy will smear his on his body

Chicago will load it in their horns and launch a barrage at the building

Steve Perry will ask for 2 hunks - 1 to eat, 1 to emote over

Peter Gabriel will just eat his


Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 19:13pm


You know what is perplexing:

An underrated gem of an act such as Chicago does not get inducted. And I do think they were underrated. Go back to any of their albums when Terry Kath was alive; heck, even when Peter Cetera was with the group. Some interesting sounds were coming out from these guys that I am certain have not been copied since. Plus, more personally, Chicago has been a longtime favored act that my father has enjoyed. To him, the Hall of Fame is incomplete without Chicago.

It is the same way I feel with respect to Peter Gabriel. Each year I keep thinking is the year for Gabriel to be inducted. Fortunately, the stars have rightly aligned for Peter Gabriel to be inducted. The Class of 2009 has Gabriel as their immediate lock for induction.

I will add that perhaps not this year, but the Class of 2010 will include Chicago. That influence can no longer be ignored. Yet again, 2009 is the year and class that Peter Gabriel will be inducted into; along with the Eurythmics, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Donna Summer and Chic. Their time to be rightly honoured for their works and innovations is now.

Written after a half hour in the shower,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 20:21pm


Lax25, it's going to be funny when Peter Gabriel gets snubbed this year just like every other year. You're going to look foolish.

Posted by AlexM on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 21:00pm


Gabriel is pretty certain to be snubbed again this year. He's still a lock to get in eventually. He has everything the Rock Hall likes.

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 09.10.08 @ 21:33pm


Rather Interesting.

AlexM and MBI seem certain that Peter Gabriel will be snubbed this year. While I feel certain that he will be inducted this year. Guys, why is it that you are certain that Gabiel will be snubbed? And MBI, considering his eventual induction, why would the Hall of Fame Foundation's Nominating Committee wait to induct him?

Seeking answers,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 06:15am


Because they're too busy inducting the goddamn Hollies, is why. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz for the guy, he's never been brought up before and he hasn't released an album in a while. I understand how you feel, man, part of me believes this is the year they finally induct Alice Cooper, or Tom Waits, or Yes, but in actuality? They're going to induct the Hollies, one deserving hiphop act, Donna f'ing Summer, The Stooges if we're lucky, and Metallica because they've got a new album out. Not a terrible lineup, but again, be ready for snubs. Lots of snubs.

Posted by MBI on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 06:26am


I agree with MBI. And I hope he is right about Alice and the Stooges. That would at least give the voting body some level of creditability.

But no way Peter G. gets in this year. Actually, I don't think his solo career will ever be recognized until Genesis is in and I have a feeling that they are punishing them for turning into a Pop group in the 80's, so who knows if and when that may ever happen. Plus Genesis cannot get in before King Crimson.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 06:52am


Nothing wrong with inducting Donna Summer. She is well deserved in getting inducted this year.

MBI, regarding buzz for Peter Gabriel, he has acheived more than a great deal in many circles over the past year at least. Gabriel being a cover story in Time Magazine, and being named amongst the Time 100 most influential people in the world, has now solidified his impact.

I will give you an example. Back in 1986, Time Magazine had a cover story on Talking Heads; or at least, David Byrne. In that year, Byrne had also directed the rather interesting musical "True Stories", which the full band made an album out of those songs. In fact, "Wild Wild Life" became a hit for the band, despite not even touring in the album and film's support. What the cover article brought forth to a greater audience was at least Byrne's interests and impact on his endeavors, along with the band's uniqueness in songcraft and dynamics. As you may know, Talking Heads is in the Hall of Fame: the Time Magazine cover story way back when made certain that an induction would occur.

Now then, this year Peter Gabriel has been on the cover of Time Magazine, was listed as amongst its 100 most influential people, received an actual award from Time during a dinner in New York honoring the listed individuals that attended: Plus, Gabriel contributed to enhancing "Wall-E", a Pixar/Disney film well received no less, is a shoo-in to win the Academy Award for Best Song (Down to Earth): and the long awaited conceptual piece Big Blue Ball was released. Now, that is not a new album from Peter Gabriel per se, but it does provide a taste of what is to come with I/O, similar to what OVO provided prior to the release of Up. As well, the back catalogue of his time with Genesis is being re-released in remastered 5.1 quality; this includes a greater audio experience in hearing "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway".

And that is just on his creative front alone. What I am saying is, these citations and activities have propelled Peter Gabriel to be at the forefront of inductees for the Class of 2009. If any one thing made the most impact, it was Gabriel being named amongst Time Magazine's 100 most influential people in the world, and him subsequently appearing on its cover. Not many rock artists have acheived that. Peter Gabriel has.

Now, regarding the Hollies; they were an initial pick of mine to be inducted. As well, if the inductees list expanded to, say, seven, they would be assured of induction; as would Metallica. However, if there is five, then those I have mentioned, including Peter Gabriel and Donna Summer, will suffice.

Do not stop beleiving,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 07:01am


Lax25 - you may just be correct. Perhaps the Times article will push Peter in and although I have no problem with him being honored this way, it just shows the continued failures of the HoF itself. But these failures have been mentioned so many times, I will not repeat them.

Donna Summer may or may not deserve this honor. I really don't care anymore.

Right now - all I want to see is Alice, The Stooges and Deep Purple get inducted because they are the biggest omissions and it needs to be rectified. And none of the other artists that are being mentioned have any right going in before them.

Although, Roy does make a point about Bernie Taupin. There is no Elton John without Bernie. So what the hell is taking so long with this one?

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 07:50am


Maybe I'm wrong, but they are inducting the so-called non-performers in a very slow rate, let's say one per year. That means the queue for that category is incredibly long, and it's quite difficult for someone to get in front of the line. I do think it's strange that Elton John is inducted when his main songwriter isn't. But there are a couple of non-performers in line whose influence is even bigger, like Tom Dowd, the pioneer of multi-track recording, or Otis Blackwell, who wrote such classics as "Great Balls of Fire", "Don't Be Cruel" and "All Shook Up".

Posted by The_Claw on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 08:26am


I have found the true leader of the RnR Hall of Fame:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1Yo610lG0

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 09:08am


Anthony DeCurtis of Rolling Stone Magazine was the one who nominated Leonard Cohen last year. Do you think he will continue to nominate folk acts this year?:

Joan Baez
Judy Collins
Peter, Paul & Mary
The Kingston Trio
Laura Nyro
Melanie

FOLK IN THE ROCK HALL:

Lead Belly
Woody Guthrie
Pete Seeger
Bob Dylan
Joni Mitchell
Leonard Cohen

Posted by Roy on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 10:43am


Okay Mr. Anonymous R&RHoF Selection Committee Member,

If you are who you say you are, my problem with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is in the name itself. It implies a certain type of music "Rock and Roll" Even the induction criteria says "Rock an Roll"

"INFLUENTIAL AND SIGNIFICANT INSPIRATIONAL IMPACT ON THE EVOLUTION, DEVELOPMENT AND PERPETUATION OF ROCK AND ROLL"

Now, the groups or artists that are discussed on this site for possible induction or that have been left out, quite often the debate is that if some of these groups or artists are even "Rock and Roll"

I have posed this question before with very little response. I will now ask you.

What is the definition of "Rock and Roll"

It would seem to me that if you were to have a place called the ROCK and ROLL Hall of Fame, you would not only have to have induction criteria but a definition of Rock and Roll or none of this makes any sense and every group or artist that ever recorded music would have to be considered.

The other problem I have is that some how the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Commitee has become the end all keepers of Rock and Roll and what they say and who they induct or don't induct is the final word for past, current and future generations.

If it were called the Music Hall of Fame, no problem, fill it full of everything. But it is called the ROCK and ROLL Hall of Fame. And it is doing ROCK and ROLL an injustice.

So again I ask, What is the definition of "Rock and Roll"?

SpaceTrucker

"I want to Rock and Roll all night..... and party everyday"

Kiss

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 11:38am


SpaceTrucker
Very good point. I guess thats why they put it in the hell hole of a city to drive around in called Cleveland, OHIO. The city nice. To drive around Cleveland sucks. Even the people that live there didn't know how to get around the city.

Just to say again I have nothing against Cleveland, OH. Other than driving around the city.

The only disagreement I have with that point is RUN-DMC. Yes they are a rap group. But if it was for them including Aerosmith with the remake of "Walk This Way" there may not be any mention of the phrase "ROCK AND ROLL" these days.

Posted by Steve on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 12:16pm


SpaceTrucker
Very good point. I guess thats why they put it in the hell hole of a city to drive around in called Cleveland, OHIO. The city nice. To drive around Cleveland sucks. Even the people that live there didn't know how to get around the city.

Just to say again I have nothing against Cleveland, OH. Other than driving around the city.

The only disagreement I have with that point is RUN-DMC. Yes they are a rap group. But if it was for them including Aerosmith with the remake of "Walk This Way" there may not be any mention of the phrase "ROCK AND ROLL" these days.

Posted by Steve on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 12:16pm


Oh, please. The whole "rap isn't rock" BS grew stale ages ago. Rap has influenced rock, and vice-versa. FACT. So since this HoF is (supposedly) all about influencing rock musicians, which Run-DMC and their ilk certainly have done, you should have absolutely no problem with their nomination or induction.

Posted by Liam on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 12:57pm


How are the following bands not in the Hall of Fame?

Judas Priest-They revived the heavy metal scene. Their first 11 albums went platinum (Sad Wings through Painkiller). Scratch that, 11 STRAIGHT albums.

Iron Maiden-The only way they'll get in is if Judas Priest gets in. They've got Eddie, a rock icon. A unique sound at that point in time. Even the newer Iron Maiden (Brave New World, Dance of Death) is just as good as the original. If they don't get in, the rock and roll hall of fame will be a joke.

KISS- Say what you will, but they influenced the glam scene. And probably the first "fan club." They've got their anthem, the costume, the over the top stage shows. How are they not in?

Metallica-Once Death Magnetic comes out, how are you gonna say no. All of their albums (even the crap called St. Anger) has gone platinum.

Rush-Seriously, how are these guys not in as well? Think about it, God took the greatest drummer ever (Neil Peart), the greatest guitar player ever (Alex Lifeson), and the greatest bass player ever (Geddy Lee) and form Rush. Hard rock and progressive gelled together. Please put Rush in. I don't think they've had a bad album.

Ozzy Osbourne-Crazy Train, Bark at the Moon, Flying High Again. Really? You're not gonna induct his solo act in. With Ozzy Osbourne, his songs have a meaning in every one. More like a life message in a song. Even approaching age 60, the Ozzman still haseth.

Posted by bostononemanarmy on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 13:08pm


Still searchin' for a definition, Trucker? Let me try and drop a few points & muddy up the waters (as I usually do):

Rock & Roll started off as straight dance music designed to fill the lack of such tunes at social youth gatherings. A sub-culture formed around it involving hot rods, hair grease, poodle skirts, transistor radios, sock hops (left over from the bobby soxers) that was seen as exquisitely infantile by parents.

Somewhere along the way somebody tossed in a sociological argument. Since then R & R has become a platform for left wing liberal nitwits (& a few right wing head cases as well) who wish to use it as a dumping ground for social ills, while most of us just want to be w/the opposite sex in a social situation.

Musically it opened w/ guitars, bass, drums, saxes, & pianos. In the 1960's we had the intro. of multi tracked recordings, expansion on keyboards (organ and primitive synths) and the 1st world music intimations, courtesy of the sitar. In the 70's everything mentioned above got louder sonically and expanded geographically, world music wise. In the 80's we moved onto TV, guitar styles changed from folk and blues to shred metal, and the turntable became an instrument as well. The 90's saw the very generation that created MTV pretty much lay waste to it. Lo-fi recordings became acceptable, the seven string guitar appeared, and computer tech. at the end made it acceptable to find garbage singers and turn them into something referred to as "talented". The 21st century has brought the internet into the picture, w/everyone downloading and giving accountants ulcers.

I bet you're more confused than ever, huh? Living proof that I can botch anything, given a good head start.

"Here's another nice mess you've gotten me into"

Oliver Hardy to Stan Laurel (seemed more appropriate than a rock qoute, in light of the travesty I just laid out)

Cheesecrop

Posted by Cheesecrop on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 15:00pm


Cheeseman,

Love the post. It was more of a history lesson than a definition but I still love the post.

Look, I am just trying to get everyone on this site to step back and really think if all these grops and artists that are up for discussion are really rock and roll, I think not.

I realize that's it's probably way to late to get this thing back to it's namesake, Rock and Roll because of some of the groups or artists that are already in.

When somebody says Whitney Houston should be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame I go mental. Come on, everyone including the people who want her in know's she is no where near Rock and Roll. The only thing said did that was Rock and Roll was when she became a drug addict and threw her career away. Now that's ROCK and ROLL!

What did The Pretenders do to influence, perpetuate or influence rock and roll? They were just a good new wave band with a chick singer.

Grand Master Flash, Rap is Rap go put them in The Hip Hop Hall Of Fame, not Rock and Roll.

My point is you have some GLARING omissions that are without a doubt Rock and Roll, Rush, Kiss,
Alice Cooper, Deep Purple, Grand Funk Railroad, Jethro Tull, Judas Preist and more. The people make or break rock bands, the people decide what rock records to buy, the people decide what rock concerts to go to not some committee with agendas and politics.

Some how the people need to have a say.

Peace Out

SpaceTrucker

"Hey people are you ready to get in the streets, to be your own police, to stand up and fight for your rights, whoa I just gotta know"

Grand Funk Railroad

Posted by SpaceTrucker on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 16:04pm


I like your list Roy!!!

Melanie,
Joan Baez,
and Judy Collins,
were, and ARE extremely (early) influential female artists!!!

-Bill Herrick
"Induct Melanie into The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Petition"
www.PetitionOnline.com/mssrrhof/petition.html

Posted by Bill Herrick on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 16:42pm


While many of the artists mentioned above do deserve to be in and someday hopefully they will be in. I remember when the hall was originally going to nominate "influential" artists not necessarily "popular" artists. The "hall" pointed this out when Velvet Underground was nominated into the hall.

All well and good, but if what they are saying is true then why hasn't Todd Rundgren been nominated? Not only is he a great musician, but a true innovater, a great producer and one of the first musicians to truely embrace the video art form (and I do not mean the MTV/Hollywood videos of Michael Jackson et al). Many of Todd's concerts have not only been musical treats but visual ones as well.

The we have Roxy Music, a group that has influenced virtually every band coming out of England for the past 30 years, many of whom have been mentioned above. They took music to places no other band has been to since.

Then we have Alice Cooper (the original group, not necessarily just the man). What is there to say about a group that was one of the first heavy metal acts in rock and one of the inventors of the glam rock movement of the seventies. Besides which, how many groups have an anthem that is sung by every generation for the past 38 years. Yes, School's Out but Alice sure ain't in.

Posted by John on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 16:47pm


Roy,

re "Anthony DeCurtis of Rolling Stone Magazine was the one who nominated Leonard Cohen last year. Do you think he will continue to nominate folk acts this year?"

It is really hard to see any of the artists you listed entering the Hall. Joan Baez (I suspect personal vendettas here), Peter, Paul & Mary, The Kingston Trio and Melanie have never got a solitary vote from the nominating committee. As for Laura Nyro, I'm a major fan but know very well from other's experience that her music is unpalatable to many judges because of its complicated narratives and intensely personal nature.

That leaves Judy Collins as the sole act Anthony DeCurtis might be nominating. Since Judy helped Cohen rise to prominence as a songwriter before he recorded "Songs of Leonard Cohen", that is quite likely - but nothing more.

Posted by Julien Peter Benney on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 16:48pm


OKAY, who did Joan Baez refuse to sleep with in order to get inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame?!!

Posted by GGOOPP on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 17:03pm


OKAY, who did Joan Baez refuse to sleep with in order to get inducted into the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame?!!

Posted by GGOOPP on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 17:03pm


I cannot seem to find Richard Hell and the Voidoids on this site? Am I missing something? Blank Generation is as important an album from the Punk scene as any other.

Posted by Dameon on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 17:27pm


Here is a thought I am having:

Perhaps the Hall of Fame Foundation Nominating Committee should consider expanding the inductee finalist list from roughly 10 to, say, roughly 30 for one special time. Subsequently, have the list of inductees be around 15 for this one time. This would allow for several long-time deserving inductees the full induction they rightly deserve.

A few posters have mentioned fine singer-songwriter folk artists including Judy Collins, Melanie, and Joan Baez. All deserve induction; why Baez has yet made induction is a perplexing issue I have yet to understand.

Let it be known, though, that I am of the knowledge that Donna Summer and Annie Lennox by way of the Eurythmics will be inducted into the Class of 2009, just before Baez, Collins, et al. Both Summer and Lennox are personal favored artists of myself and others. And while both are not entirely folk, both are songwriters and fit well into the definition of innovative artists in the field of rock. And when I mean rock, I mean largely electronic centered popular music.

Also to note: inducting Peter Gabriel in the Class of 2009 is not a failure of the Hall of Fame perse; after all, Gabriel will be inducted. Yet, Time Magazine naming Peter Gabriel amongst its 100 most influential people and being on its cover has prompted the Nominating Committee to no longer hold off inducting Gabriel. Better to be inducted in the Class of 2009 than to never have been inducted at all. It is finally the year that Peter Gabriel and Donna Summer and the Eurythmics amongst other aforementioned artists in my posts will take their rightful spots amongst the greatest of rock artists.

Before I leave, maybe the time has come to revive the Early Influence category. And I would know the right artist to be inducted in that category: Joan Baez.

Enjoying the discussion,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 18:02pm


I saw a comment on here a little bit ago by Liam about rap, so I thought I'd throw my, what's it up to...SIX cents in. I think he's right...AND wrong. When rap first started really gaining momentum, I thought it was heavily influenced by rock (Run-DMC, etc...). As time has gone on, it has morphed by and large into it's own thing. There are still hardcore rappers out there (Eminem, etc...) whose music has a strong rock flavor to it, but a lot of it is, let's just say... unique, in both good and bad ways. It really doesn't resemble rock as I've come to know it over the years.

I think it will always be intermingled with rock to some degree, but over the years it seems to have diminished.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with rap/hip-hop being it's own genre...

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 18:40pm


Rock is all about rebellion and music that matches said creed. That's why we have Miles Davis, The Beatles, Sam Cooke & Grandmaster Flash all in the same place. It's exactly why it DOES NOT have corporate acts like Journey or Heart, stale modern country acts from the last forty years like Garth Brooks, or light, irrelevant pop music like The Carpenters.

Posted by Casper on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 23:41pm


What rock isn't corporate?

The record companies, publishing houses and concert promoters are all corporations, aren't they??

Posted by interviewer on Thursday, 09.11.08 @ 23:49pm


Yes, but while Sonic Youth has been on a major label for the last 20 years, they certainly aren't concerned with dollar signs. Neither was Metallica when they did their groundbreaking work, or R.E.M. or U2 in the 80s, etc. Groups like Journey and Bon Jovi constantly try to maintain an image, hire song doctors, etc. all while hardly doing anything remotely groundbreaking. They know how to sell MP3 downloads to boring, soulless office workers today that were dull high school students two decades earlier.

Posted by Casper on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 00:45am


BTW, that's why I consider Mellencamp and the Dave Clark Five to be the worst inductees. Not only was their music among the least interesting or innovative of those enshrined, but both had their eyes constantly on dollar signs. Mellencamp had an image to hone while Dave Clark was about managing and making a quick buck.

Posted by Casper on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 00:46am


Casper - I ask you this with all due respect. How the hell do you know that they weren't interested in dollars? Every band is interested in dollars, because you cannot create music without it. Music is created out of love, ego, environment and soul. Whether you have talent or not is not a mandatory item. But you need money to make the music. And the fact remains, especially when you are young; if given the opportunity, would you rather be working a 9AM-5PM gig or 9PM to 5 AM gig. In music, the opportunity is there with the right timing and lots of luck to basically hit the LOTTO.

Bands come together in different ways. You have the kids who started out in a garage when they were 15. Sometimes you have the 20 year olds that meet in clubs and they have similiar likes in music. And sometimes you have perfectly engineered bands put together with outside assistance. It starts with the love a music and then the reality that they might be able to make a good living from it.

Let's look at The Ramones as a perfect example. Just look at the documentary "End of the Century". They all wanted and felt they should have been the biggest selling band in the world. That tells me that $$$$ had something to do with it.

I can guarantee you that the folks in Sonic Youth are living a fairly good life.

The starving artist with integrity is just a bullsh*t excuse for someone who just couldn't quite cut it, or get their message across to a mass audience. And I say this with all humility. It took me a long time to finally get through my head that my band didn't make it because in general, our songs just weren't that good. Life is tough and I had to pay the bills. Goodbye stage, hello Civil Service.

Indie bands are sometimes placed on a platform that they really don't belong on. I'm sorry - but any band that can release "Shiny Happy People" is no better than Journey; ever!!!

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 05:57am


I must clarify the last paragraph from above.

In no way am I saying that Journey or Bon Jovi are as important as REM. "Radio Free Europe", at least in my mind is one of the most important songs ever recorded in the history of RnR. Journey and BJ have not come close to that song. And as much as I dislike BJ, there is a place in this world for all kinds of RnR. And the fan who appreciates that which is a bit more cutting edge is not always the brighter or hipper of the fanbases that are out there. That being said - BJ still does not belong in the HoF.

Posted by Dameon on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 07:00am


Big D - Totally cool w/that. You are right on the starving artist image.

Caspar - loved what you said about rock being about "rebellion and music that matches said creed". I might transpose "rebellion" and "music". The moments that tend to stand out often consist of the music pushing the rebellion outwards and growing from out it's base, rather than the other way around.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 07:25am


Donna Summer will hopefully be inducted into the Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame 2009. There are the disco haters out there who think Donna is a name of the past who just sang songs. However, an artist who has sold 130 million records; has won multiple awards in soul, rock, gospel and dance music; and has written the majority of her hits and albums could not have relied on just a couple of 70s disco hits. When she was asked to do an album of cover songs she rejected the offer and at the age of almost 60, she managed to successfully create a 21st century masterpiece (Crayons) covering many genres including dance, rock and latin.

Although she is often described as a Disco Queen (which of course she is Dance music's greatest artist) Donna Summer's career is more like Debbie Harry's, Pat Benatar's or Aretha Franklin's than lets say Gloria Gaynor or Anita Ward.

Her albums have been widely acclaimed for example the No.1 Bad Girls album- a masterpiece on the concept of prostitutes and nightlife; or 1977's Once Upon a Time- a Cinderella like tale which arguably is Donn'a finest moment. Summer's hit singles have also been highly influential. Love to Love You Baby, 1975's sensational debut for the diva, is often described as the song that made disco. I Feel love, co-written by Summer with her then producers Giorgio Moroder and Pete Bellotte, was the first song to only use synths and sequencers in the background to Donna's stunning vocals. This makes it the first ever(and greatest) 'dance' song as we know dance music today and many bands from then on (especially in the 1980s) eg. Soft Cell, Bronski Beat, Eurythmics, Visage, Erasure, Pet Shop Boys, etc started to use synths in the style of Donna.

Hot Stuff and Bad Girls, the multi-platinum back to back no.1 hits from 1979, were the key steps into bringing disco and funk together with rock and soul. Rolling stone magazine loved Donna Summer's work from the late 70s/early 80s than compared to other 'disco' artists because she had the rock 'n' roll edge and often high concept material in her albums.

Summer's 80s albums such as The Wanderer, I'm a Rainbow, Donna Summer, and She Works Hard for the Money again proved she could do dance music and rock music at the same time. Highlights of these albums include Cold Love, Protection, He's a Rebel, People People, Stop Me, Leave Me Alone, A Runner with the Pack and many more fantastic tracks.
In 2008 she released Crayons, which once again proves that Donna is still going strong. She was nominated to be inducted in the 2008 Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, but did not succeed in getting in. It is interesting to note too that another disco act, Chic, were also rejected from being inducted. Hopefully, disco will be revisited and seen in a less hateful point of light, and even more so that Donna Summer will be inducted as soon as possible. She is the original queen of pop, disco, rock and electronica.

Posted by Peter on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 09:24am


She is the original queen of pop, disco, rock and electronica.


Posted by Peter on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 09:24am

Donna is Disco queen 4 sho... She to was one of the first to also use the SYNDRUMS .. If not for Disco Donna where would rap be today..?
YES TO DONNA

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 09:30am


Interviewer, if you're only going to view rock as an industry, then I suppose you've got a point. But I personally see a big difference between the compositions and the CD and packaging.

"How the hell do you know that they weren't interested in dollars? Every band is interested in dollars, because you cannot create music without it."

I think it's just his semantics, as well as the examples he used to back his point. I think he was really trying to say that there are musicians/artists out there less interested in the money they make than the art they create. Obviously composers/performers/whatevers need at least the basic income in order to survive and continue making music. I'd say Zappa would be the perfect example of an artist putting artistic integrity ahead of money, and even he had 'commercial' periods in his career.

Hell, I've even seen an interview with Captain Beefheart saying that he'd like to make money if he could, so what does anyone know 'bout integrity?!

Posted by Liam on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 09:57am


I'd say Zappa would be the perfect example of an artist putting artistic integrity ahead of money, and even he had 'commercial' periods in his career.

Hell, I've even seen an interview with Captain Beefheart saying that he'd like to make money if he could, so what does anyone know 'bout integrity?!

Posted by Liam on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 09:57am


lol Zappa made lots of money and kept lot of it in Europe lol For some odd reason you seem to think $$$ and music don't mix... They do mix and mix quite well... Zappa was into music and money.. You seem to be the kinda guy that would only pay a band at a club $50 and charge them for the beer...
Rock on.!!

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 10:03am


I have tried and tried and I just don't see why people are considering Donna Summer. I support Chic being inducted, I supported Madonna being inducted, and I might even support Abba being inducted (and I don't like Abba in the least), but I don't understand where the push to induct Donna Summer comes from. Does she really have the critical acclaim? I know "I Feel Love" is beloved, but really, I'd rather induct Giorgio Moroder as non-performer than Donna.

Posted by MBI on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 10:17am


I have tried and tried and I just don't see why people are considering Donna Summer. I support Chic being inducted, I supported Madonna being inducted, and I might even support Abba being inducted (and I don't like Abba in the least), but I don't understand where the push to induct Donna Summer comes from. Does she really have the critical acclaim? I know "I Feel Love" is beloved, but really, I'd rather induct Giorgio Moroder as non-performer than Donna.

Posted by MBI on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 10:17am


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OMG You support Maddona but don't get Donna..?? That says it all lol Let us thank the $10,000000 of fans !! lol Where would the HOLLYWOOD HYPE B with out you..? BROKE would be my guess.. LOLs

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 10:23am


Let's forget about artists getting in their first year of eligibility (except SRV) until those who have been patiently waiting are in:
Bad Company
Jeff Beck (solo)
Jimmy Buffett
The Cars
Cheap Trick
Joe Cocker
Alice Cooper
Deep Purple
Def Leppard
Dire Straits
Doobie Brothers
Electric Light Orchestra
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
The Faces
Flying Burrito Brothers
Peter Gabriel
Rory Gallagher
J. Geils Band
Genesis
Grand Funk Railroad
Guess Who
Sammy Hagar
Hall & Oates
Heart
Iggy Pop / Stooges
Iron Maiden
Jethro Tull
Judas Priest
King Crimson
Kiss
John Mayall
Steve Miller
Montrose
Procol Harum
Quicksilver Messenger Service
Roxy Music
Todd Rundgren
Rush
Styx
Thin Lizzy
Robin Trower
Steve Winwood (solo)
Johnny Winter
Yes
Warren Zevon

Posted by jackrainman on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 11:09am


Let's forget about artists getting in their first year of eligibility (except SRV) until those who have been patiently waiting are in:
Bad Company
Jeff Beck (solo)
Jimmy Buffett
The Cars
Cheap Trick
Joe Cocker
Alice Cooper
Deep Purple
Def Leppard
Dire Straits
Doobie Brothers
Electric Light Orchestra
Emerson, Lake & Palmer
The Faces
Flying Burrito Brothers
Peter Gabriel
Rory Gallagher
J. Geils Band
Genesis
Grand Funk Railroad
Guess Who
Sammy Hagar
Hall & Oates
Heart
Iggy Pop / Stooges
Iron Maiden
Jethro Tull
Judas Priest
King Crimson
Kiss
John Mayall
Steve Miller
Montrose
Procol Harum
Quicksilver Messenger Service
Roxy Music
Todd Rundgren
Rush
Styx
Thin Lizzy
Robin Trower
Steve Winwood (solo)
Johnny Winter
Yes
Warren Zevon


Posted by jackrainman on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 11:09am


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Leave your comment

Great list but Where is Ringo ,Surfaris, Kingsmen and Them ? to name a few..

Posted by mrxyz on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 11:51am


Casper
Let me ask you one thing. Have you ever listened to a Journey cd out of maybe the Greatest Hits? Which stiil is in the top 60 of all sales on Billboards. Anyways, if you don't think Journey doesn't know how to rock, listen to a whole album like Frontiers or even Trial By Fire. They are in your face. Go to a concert and watch them. Problem is when you think of Journey it is only Open Arms, Faithfully, and Don't Stop Believin'. Take a listen to the rest of their catalogue you might actually like it.

Posted by Steve on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 12:01pm


Sarah Palin: Who Do We Think She Is? washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/11/AR2008091103630.html

Posted by britney on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 12:27pm


I'm glad there is so much support for Donna Summer! No 'diva' has influenced and shaped music as much as Donna Summer. Here are a couple of reasons she should get inducted:
1) Her early work (such as Love to Love You Baby/A Love Trilogy) helped to bring disco out from the underground into the spotlight and help it become the most successful genre of music ever.
2) Her dance anthem 'I Feel Love' was the first song ever to use only synthesised instruments and therefore paved the way for many 80s bands.
3) Donna Summer was one of the first female black artists to write her music and create concept albums.
4) Donna Summer was the first female to win a ROCK grammy in 1979.
5) In the 1978/1979 period alone Donna had 4 US No. 1 hits, 7 million selling singles, 3 consecutive No. 1 multi-platinum double albums- not even Elvis Presley has shared this amount of success in a period of two years.
6) Donna Summer was the only artist to survive the disco backlash in 1979 - in 1980 she had released a rock album (The Wanderer) which received acclaim from rock critics - which showed the world that Donna could rock!
7) Donna Summer's ever changing image (From a fairy tale princess to a prostitute to a bag lady to a hard working waitress) and her influential dance music would later lay the foundations to the careers of Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, Kylie Minogue, and virtually every female pop artist that we have today.
8) Donna Summer occasionaly writes for other artists too - she wrote Dolly Parton's number 1 country hit 'Starting Over Agian'.
9) Donna Summer is the only artist to have a billboard number one dance hit in the past 4 decades.

Posted by Jon Paul on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 13:59pm


It's criminal that Chic has been persistently snubbed. Anyone who knows anything about music, and is being an honest critic, will tell you that their music, their sound, and subsequent production work was directly responsible for some of the best and most popular music--Chic provided the blueprint for the first major rap hit (Rapper's Delight/Good Times), David Bowie (Let's Dance); Queen (self-admittedly) copped Good Times (Another One Bites The Dust), Sister Sledge, Madonna (Like a Virgin), Diana Ross (Upside Down), the B-52s (Roam), Mick Jagger (She's The Boss), Power Station...I can go on and on... INXS, The Talking Heads, Duran Duran, Steve Winwood, Change, Odyssey, Sheila B. Devotion Steve Winwood, Debbie Harry. Edwards/Rodgers/Thompson had a hand in all of those artists most popular work during the late 70's/early 80's. Chic gets overlooked b/c they get slapped with being 'disco', a description turned into something dirty. But anyone who's ever thoughtfully listened to their music can tell you that Chic was one of the best bands [yes, BAND]from that era.

Posted by Bryan on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 16:49pm


Jackrainman, what a list!

I would take out two on your list that I do not beleive deserve the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: first, Johnny Winter. Johnny may have been an interesting blues guitar guy; yet, he was not his brother, Edgar. Second, Joe Cocker. Sad to say, but he made a living out of bluesifying previously done songs. In fact, let me ask you this question: who did the better "With a little help from my friends", Cocker or the Beatles? My answer is that anything the Beatles individually or collectively did was better than those songs covered.

It is good to know that a consensus has been reached regarding Donna Summer being inducted. As well, it seems Chic has been given the consensus to be inducted for the Class of 2009 as well. And, we do know that a consensus regarding Peter Gabriel has also been reached. That means we know three of the five inductees.

For the remaining two, the inductees will be, in all certainty, Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), and The Eurythmics. Stevens is certainly credentialed with his encompassing works and humanitarian purposes. Go back and hear his more ambitious albums from the 70s to note that it was not all acoustic singer-songwriter folk. I was particularly interested to note the growing usage of electronic synth keyboards that enhanced, rather than detracted, Cat Stevens' songcraft.

As for the Eurythmics, I am bemused to note that not many are discussing their merits. Yet, I do not think there was a better synth-new wave 80s act from the British Isles that was any innovative than what Annie Lennox and Dave Stewart were creating at the time. Lennox, I think, has one of the more distinctive and emotive female voices put to record over the past 30-odd years. Both of them were greater collectively than they were individually (though even then, they were still amongst the best in their fields.)

Now, Lax25 will now reveal the Hall of Fame Class of 2009:

Peter Gabriel
Donna Summer
Chic
Yusuf Islam a.k.a Cat Stevens
The Eurythmics

Non-Performer:

Bernie Taupin

Early Influence (maybe):

Joan Baez (initially pre-dated current trends.)

Sideman:

Ringo Starr (I know it could go either way.)

Wriiten on a Friday of little activity,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 18:39pm


Casper,
You talk about Journey being CORPORATE and just worried about the money, obviously you don't know anything about Journey. Neal Schon has like 6 or 7 off shot bands at least, not to mention has released 5-6 albums of his own. Mostly all instrumental. Yeah, thats all about the money. Jonathan Cain has written and released songs for many individuals and groups. Plus, has released his own solo cd's, a couple of which were all instrumental. Ross Valory has 2 or 3 different bands he plays with when he isn't doing stuff with Journey. Same thing with the Drummer Deen Castranova. The former drummer Steve Smith's band Vital Information is considered on of the top jazz groups out today.
If they were really honestly just worried about the money don't you think Steve Perry would have come back. You can't tell me they wouldn't have made an obscene amount of money having Steve Perry back with Journey.
Most of all, you have no clue about Journey and how corporate they are. Once the decision to leave Sony and Columbia came about. They decided to put together the Generations album and do the Generations tour. Did you go to see that tour? Did you hear about that tour as to what they did for there fans? At over 90% of the shows on the Generations tour they GAVE AWAY a FREE CD of the copy of the GENERATIONS cd to everybody that went to those shows. That means they probably gave out at least 500,000 copies of that cd for free. That is real corporate. After the tour they released the Generations album with one new song to the public. It sold 7,000 copies its first week. Revelation sold over 140,000 copies its first week. You can't tell me that is because Arnel Pineda is that much better than Steve Augeri. The reason is that Journey is so CORPORATE that they gave out copies of free CD's to there show.
Thats why for the Generations tour and the next tour with Def Leppard, they had a Motorcycle built by Arlen and Cory Ness and raffled off and proceeds raised were donated to Cure Autism Now (CAN) foundation. Heck that sounds really corporate.
Not to mention did you know that Greg Rollie, Neal Schon formed Journey as a Rock Fusion band to try to become success but mainly to just jam. I guess it was there fault they hit it big with one of the greatest pure voices of all time in Rock music history called Steve Perry.
So please tell me the last time your great Sonic Youth, those who have been on a major label for twenty some years and whom who must be starving everynight they go to bed, gave each of there fans that came to see them in concert a free copy of there soon to be realeased album and not worried about album sales. I bet not to often.

This is no disrespect to Sonic Youth or there fans. They are not a band that I ever listend to so I tell you a single album or song they have ever released. I know the name and they have influenced many groups and I respect that. I don't have to like singers or groups to respect what they have done. Just like you can't disrespect a group because they sell albums and have made big in the mainstream media. Its not there fault that people still by there albums. Like I tell the kids at the high school I work at. Good music will last the test of time and the junk will never be heard of again. The reason some groups last is because they are good imagine that.
Plus if you talk corporate. For me the Arrival album is my second favorite to Raised on Radio from the Journey catalogue. Thats because they are corporate. Same with Bad Company, Paul Rogers is an ICON but I prefer the Mark Howe bad company. Here Comes Trouble to me is one of my all time favorite albums. So to me its not about liking Journey or Bad Company because they are corporate its because I actually think the groups are good. You like what you like and I like what I like. The difference is I have respect for pretty much all music styles and groups where you can't get outside your box and actually give credit where credit is do.

Posted by Steve on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 21:24pm


Sorry, previous listing should have said. I couldn't tell you the name to any song or album Sonic Youth has ever released.

Posted by Steve on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 21:25pm


As you all may (or may not) have noticed, I haven't submitted a list. I don't have any idea how this is all going to pan out. I'm sure there will be more outrage than approval, Jann Wenner will be hung in effigy, etc... There are obviously artists who are way overdue, and the longer they're overlooked, the more diluted this so-called "HOF" becomes.

I think there are more questions than answers upcoming...call me a coward if you will!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Friday, 09.12.08 @ 22:18pm


Hey Gitarzan, instead of "coward" can I call you "chickensh*t"? I don't think you are, I just think it's a fun word to say! Chickensh*t! Chickensh*t! Say it with me!!

lol No, actually, I wasn't planning on making a list myself either, but somehow I found myself doing it. There are some flaws with my list now I see... like I didn't list any women. But whatever. I like to have fun with this kind of thing.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 00:51am


Did i ever tell you guys about the time i sucked Steve Perry's dick while he serenaded me with the greatest voice in rock history

Posted by Steve on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 12:04pm


Keep that info to yourself Steve

Posted by God on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 12:16pm


lmfao

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 12:35pm


its time again when the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame have to decide if its popularity that counts, or if it is influence that matters.

Those who fall in the influence category; Donna Summer, Chic, Peter Gabriel, Kraftwerk.

Those who fall into the popularity category; Metallica, The Hollies, The Smiths.

Posted by Ferris on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 13:33pm


Hey guys !!! Hows about 14 time Grammy winning producer Phil Ramone ??? He's produced and worked with some of the biggest names in the history of the music industry.

Posted by Joe-Skee on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 14:22pm


Hey Joe-Skee I don't know why He's not in.I personally think he should be in.That's Mr Wall of sound!

Posted by Leon on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 18:10pm


Ferris, influence matters. For the Hall of Fame, it always has.

Peter Gabriel is certainly influential to be inducted. As I stated in my first post, Gabriel is the most important and influential inductee for the Hall of Fame's Class of 2009. He is certainly the most inflential Progressive Art Rock crossover artist. Donna Summer, I think, was and still is the most influential disco-R&B artist to come from the United States. As well, she is still greater than most other acts in her style at the time. Chic certainly were influential, and Nile Rodgers still is well innovative. Just for none example, "safe" rap would not be around had there not been Chic; I am referring to "Good Times", which is still influentally a greater song than anything the Sugarhill Gang made.

And I will point out that Kraftwerk have been greatly influential to such an extant that it is rather horrifying to note how many fans of music are not even aware of these guys. I suppose a problem for it was that Kraftwerk, namely the foursome of Hutter, Schneider, Flur, and Bartos were rather anonymous types who let the music do the talking. I would be amazed and pleased to see Kraftwerk make the Hall of Fame: whether that happens remains to be seen.

Metallica, i will agree, are more popular than influential. What has made them exceptional, I think, were the periods of growth in their lyrical content. Not always, but it was there. The Smiths, however, I do not see them (read: Morrisey) to be popular, at least in America. They were more influential in regards for their guitar based approach in the 80s, in additon to Morrisey's unique stage presence. For them to be inducted would be stunning to say the least. If it does occur, just do not expect Morrisey to be joined by Johnny Marr, Mike Joyce, and the bassist whose name I forget. Those three detest Morrisey for reasons that are rather quaint nowadays.

Now, The Hollies, by definition, were more popular than influential. However, I am certain there was a point in their careers, namely the Nash-Hicks-Calvert era, that they were actually influential to a certain degree. Of course, it was in response to Graham Nash's and Tony Hicks' more psychedelic songs and interpersonal reflective lyrics. And when Bernie Calvert came in, the Hollies expanded their pallet in bass work and branched into keyboards. After Nash departed, the Hollies were still highly popular; yet, from 1965-1968, they may have been influential as well. At this point, we may never know what would occur for the band had Nash stayed. We do know what occured afterwards, and that will suffice.

To summarise of Ferris' influential listing, I do not think Kraftwerk will yet be inducted this year due mainly to their rather lack of public awareness in their influence. I do know that the Class of 2009 will include Peter Gabriel, Donna Summer, and Chic. To close, influence is better than popularity. And, with thse three inductees, they are popular due to their influence.

Correcting the oversights,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 19:21pm


Casper,
Nice comeback. Good job using my name. Sign of high intelligence. Just because I call you out and prove you wrong with what you say and give respect to the groups you like. Nice.
One more thing, How many concerts did groups like Sonic Youth hold to donate the procedes of the concerts after Katrina & Rita and the Bangladesh Tidal Wave. Plus, thats right they weren't even on the Marti Gras bill after Katrina and Rita. Oh wait that was Journey, Al Green and even Taylor Hicks but no Sonic Youth!

Posted by Steve on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 20:00pm


Casper,
Nice comeback. Good job using my name. Sign of high intelligence. Just because I call you out and prove you wrong with what you say and give respect to the groups you like. Nice.
One more thing, How many concerts did groups like Sonic Youth hold to donate the procedes of the concerts after Katrina & Rita and the Bangladesh Tidal Wave. Plus, thats right they weren't even on the Marti Gras bill after Katrina and Rita. Oh wait that was Journey, Al Green and even Taylor Hicks but no Sonic Youth!

Posted by Steve on Saturday, 09.13.08 @ 20:00pm


Yeah, what with donating concert procedes to charitable events being induction criteria. Idiot.

Posted by Liam on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 05:56am


Liam - I don't think he was actually trying to say that it was a criteria. I think it started out as an arguement over corporate vs indie something or other. I wasn't paying too much attention.

But it is good to know that you are around to let people feel your friendliness and warmth.

Posted by Dameon on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 07:07am


Lax25, you've got Metallica as being popular but not influential, and the Smiths as being influential but not popular. I think I'd have to question how Metallica could not be influential. It's true they owe a lot to Priest/Maiden, etc. (pretty much anything British over a certain timeframe), but they did do something different. They streamlined the sound, adding Van Halen style fret work to a jackhammer beat, while making it sound like it should've actually worked. Certainly if I suggested that to any hypothetical American band circa 1981/1982 as a direction change, I probably would have been booted out of said group. Maybe they were out there in terms of what they were doing, but they opened the ground up for theoretical consideration. I hate pontificating over theoretical grounds, but if you suggest Morrissey opened up an area of dramatic emotion & heartbreak, backed by musicians who knew how to elaborate his readings, then Metallica certainly pulled this same stunt off (albeit on the completely opposite end of the musical & lyrical spectrum).

Posted by Cheesecrop on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 09:06am


Liam
I'm glad your case is down to name calling for the bands or groups you support. This had nothing to do for induction to the R&R HOF as Dameon said. Casper & other made the point that Journey was only Coporate and still together because they are only worried about making money. Why don't you go back and actually read my statement about the Generations tour and add the info about the concert procedes to charitable events and then rethink the comment calling me an idiot.
I'm glad that you support somebody like Casper who has nothing to saying but making stupid ass sexual remarks because I like and think Steve Perry has one of the best pure voices in Rock history. Then uses my name as I left it. Good to know thats who you support.

I know donating concert procedes and doing charitable events for Autism doesn't get people into the HALL, however it does speak of what type of people the members of Journey past and present are. People like Peter Gabriel, Bob Guldof, and Bono are held in high praise for the work they do in the world becuase they try to change the world in the ways they feel they can. But I guess because its Journey and they do something nice it is just again seen as a Corporate ACT in order to make more money and sell more ablums and thats not fair.

Again, yes I think Journey should be in. Yes they are my favorite group. Will I be mad if they get into the hall, Not at all. I don't ever expect them to get into this hall, because of the lack of respect for what groups like Journey, Foreigner, Styx, & REO Speedwagon have brought to music. See there is a difference dispite not ever listening to, liking, or even respecting the groups or individuals that have been or will be inducted I can at least respect the fact that they have been or going to be inducted. I might not get it, but obviously others have which makes them deserving. To bad, you and people like Casper can't do that without good discussion or name calling. That shows the quality of individuals you are and hope very much that it is your groups that get inducted so you can be proud of yourselfs and pat yourselfs on your back and say you told me so.

Posted by Steve on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 09:10am


Okay...here goes nothin' (more than likely);

-Chic
-Joy Division (I don't know how they can keep ignoring these guys)
-Donna Summer
-Run-DMC
-Metallica

Lax25...I just don't see Peter Gabriel getting in before Genesis. I like his solo stuff, for the most part, but outside of "SO", nothing else he did was that mainstream of popular. That sort of thing seems very important to the nominating committee. The "mainstream and popular" certainly applies for Run-DMC and Metallica, too. I'm not saying they're not deserving, but there are others who came before who should be considered first. I'm trying to think the way they think, which that much lack of logic gives me a headache!

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 10:14am


Since when all the sudden is "mainstream and popular" a problem or a reason not to be inducted into the R&R HOF. If that was the case then The Beatles, Billy Joel, The Eagles, or even Elton John wouldn't be deserving. I just don't get the criteria. To say a group had more influence than another group so the first group is more deserving. The crock of this all you have groups like and no disrespect to any group or anybody that likes these groups the Mama's and the Papa's that only released 5 albums. Janis Joplin only recorded 3 albums before she died & was recording one while she died. Look at Eric Clapton who has been inducted 56 different times. The Yardbirds released two studio albums and 2 live albums before they broke up and are in. Derek and the Dominos one album. Cream 3 or 4 albums. I could go on and on about groups in the hall of fame. This is all ok. However, you take groups like Journey, Kiss, Heart, and individuals like Jimmy Buffett that are just as successful today and have released album after album, sell out concert after concert and not in that is crazy.

Posted by Steve on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 13:08pm


the difference between groups like Cream and groups like Kiss is that one has more talent than the other and was influential and the other just plays music and keeps releasing album after crappy album, which all sell (insert number of copies here). just b/c an act is popular doesn't mean they're good take for example the Jonas Brothers extremely popular but zero talent, but they sell a lot of albums and do charity work so let them in 25 years down the road

don't get me wrong i like kiss but they're not the most talented kids on the block

Posted by Greg on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 13:44pm


Since when all the sudden is "mainstream and popular" a problem or a reason not to be inducted into the R&R HOF-Steve

Nothing wrong with it as long as it isn't the ONLY reason someone gets inducted.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 15:43pm


Cheesecrop is both correct and incorrect in my assertations:

He is correct in his regard to Metallica and their more, shall we say, emotive approach. Where he is incorrect is his assertions regarding the Smiths in comparison to Metallica. One is metal, the other would be considered alternative pop rock of the 1980s; by that I mean no synths, and jangly guitar. And proto-emo approaches. Plus, Metallica can claim five important figures in their time (James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Jason Newsted, Cliff Burton, and Dave Mustaine) that went beyond the band's singularity. The Smiths, for all intents and purposes, was Morrisey. As I mentioned before, Morrisey's frontman approach has still eeked bitterness from Johnny Marr and Mike Joyce, at least; though for different reasons. Marr regarding creative approaches, Joyce regarding money.

Gitarzan, being mainstream and popular does not mean being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. In point of fact, it may detract from being inducted. With apologies to Steve, it does not mean that an induction of Journey is imminent. In my belief, Journey was popular and mainstream when they had any one of these three in the band (Steve Perry, Steve Smith, and Aynsley Dunbar.) Since Perry and Smith left the fold after "Trial By Fire" in 1996, the relevancy of the band has lessened, though they are still good to an extant.

Peter Gabriel will go in the Hall of Fame in the Class of 2009 before Genesis. Yet, by inducting Gabriel, his work with Genesis is included. To some long-time fans, that is sufficient enough. I would include Genesis, plus Steve Hackett, Tony Banks, and down the line Ray Wilson to be inducted as well. Yet, Peter Gabriel is the better amongst equals. Also, this is a case in which the solo career eclipses the group on its own accord. Heck, Gabriel has been touring and recording his works for well over 30-odd years on his own, and from the second album tour onwards, he has had concerts in which not one of his Genesis songs is performed. It is totally his own music.

To summarise: while all four listed artists are deserving of induction, it will be Peter Gabriel that will be inducted into the Hall of Fame's Class of 2009. It is his time, and moment to take his place amongst the greatest. Metallica will be inducted possibly by 2010, if not sooner. I would probably hold off on inducting The Smiths until Morrisey's full eligibility for his entire career kicks in. As for Journey, it really all depends on Steve Perry's willingness. At this point, the induction ceremonies would need to include Perry if Journey were to ever be inducted.

Again, the Performers Category inductees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2009 will be Peter Gabriel, Yusuf Islam a.k.a Cat Stevens, The Eurythmics, Donna Summer, and Chic. I am willing to discuss future classes if need be.

Remembering my posted name so you do not have to,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 18:14pm


Lax25...In reference to Journey, when Creedence Clearwater Revival was inducted, John Fogerty refused to perform with the other two surviving members. I actually think the HOF lives for that kind of controversy. Another good example was when the Yardbirds were inducted. when it was Jeff Beck's turn at the mic, he said "They kicked me out...f**k them!!!! Good TV drama, I guess.

As for Peter Gabriel, it will be interesting to see. I certainly wouldn't object to him being inducted, but I just don't know. Cat Stevens...brilliant songwriter and he was unique, but I definitely have questions about his influence. During that era I was a little bit more of a Jim Croce fan, whose career was similar. So was John Denver's for that matter.

I am with you on Donna Summer and Chic', though.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 18:35pm


Tower of Power

Posted by Sandy on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 19:14pm


Interesting you mention both Jim Croce and John Denver.

Both of them were and still are deserving of the Hall of Fame, though neither ever lived to see it come to fruition. I will mention, though, that Croce and Denver were more acoustic oriented throughout their lives. Croce, however, approached several of his songs in a sort of New Orleans jazz format. And Denver did add bluegrass leanings to his output.

Yusuf Islam, or Cat Stevens as he is still known to many, was more of an ambitious singer-songwriter in how he approached his pallette. For example, Stevens was using synthesizers as early as "Teaser and the Firecat", at a time when contemporaries would not even consider the approach to blend the synths with the correct approach. In addition, his albums were more conceptual in tone and outlook, at times even expanding the lengths and soundscapes of certain songs, including "Foreigner". Lyrically, Stevens was and still is spiritually guided in his approach.

Gitarzan, we all know that Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Hall of Fame's Class of 2009. The accolades given to him recently, including the listing of Time Magazine's 100 most Influential People, give him the lock for induction. There is nothing wrong with inducting Peter Gabriel, for his induction has already been given the go-ahead on the basis of what has come forward in his works, and what will soon come. We know this is the time for Gabriel to be inducted; all the stars have aligned for this to happen. And it will happen; and Gabriel, Summer, Chic, Stevens, and the Eurythmics will get the honor that is richly deserved, both for themselves and their fans and the art as well.

Time in a bottle is not about sinuses,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 20:06pm


Lax25,
Sorry to break your bubble, but we don't ALL know Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Class Of 2009. You don't speak for me.

As far as I'm concerned Gabriel, Cat Stevens, and The Eurythmics are all 10% shots at best.

Posted by Arrow Man on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 20:25pm


Lets go back to Van Halen last year, how ever they got in, and you all can have your own opinion on that. I like Van Halen but don't think they were deserving. Anyways only Sammy and Michael showed up. Who cared or who cares.

Why should it actually matter if Steve Perry would show up anyways. Again my favorite male singer of all time, but I know, he knows, and everybody pretty much knows that he could never hit the notes like he used to be able to. So I personally think he would be scared to sing with Neal, Jonathan, Ross, Deen, and who ever else wants to come back and play as in Greg Rollie, Steve Smith, or Ansley Dunbar. It should not matter that one person would play or sing with a group or not. That is just a joke to even consider that.
To say that Journey is irrelevant is a joke. Again selling out shows on their current tour, which half of the crowd are either teenagers or college age students that weren't even born yet when the ESCAPE albume came out. Revelation the new album is soon to go Platinum in todays cd sales, which are significantly down today. Plus, the greatest hits is still in the top 100 of all album sales. I know album sales doesn't make a group R&R HOF eligible but what happened to longevity. Again 33 years after their first release, debuting in the top 5 and still in the top 40 after 14 weeks, with rap and stuff like Jonas Brothers today speaks for a group to me that is pretty relevant. If they were irrelevant then Don't Stop Believin' wouldn't have ended The Soprano's. Then last year (2007)when the baseball All Star game was played in San Francisco, Fox Sports could have choosen any band or music during the broadcast including any band from San Francisco, whom did they choose some irrelevant group called JOURNEY.
So I guess we must all agree that in order to be inducted into the R&R HOF you need to do this. Not be a big seller of album and have hit singles, cause that makes you Mainstream. You need to only release like 4 or 5 albums max, because you don't want longevity. This means that you shouldn't tour after 5 or 6 years. Not give a crap about your fans. Also, you should be like Peter Gabriel or Bono and work on world issues, just not your country. Release stuff like Shinny Happy People or Monday, Monday. Die from Drugs, Alcohol, or not being able to handle success so you commit suicide. Since we all have this straight. Your right Journey will never get in.

Posted by Steve on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 20:31pm


Journey's not going in because they didn't have any critical respect. They've got more respect now than they did when they were popular, but they have nowhere near enough that they could get enshrined alongside Patti Smith, Black Sabbath, U2, Tom Petty, etc. They've made no moves to induct Boston, Foreigner, Bad Company, Styx, REO Speedwagon or any of Journey's other contemporaries. The committee is simply not interested.

The Eurythmics and Cat Stevens have respect; I just don't think they have ENOUGH of it. They're hardly towering figures even within their genres. I don't see the Eurythmics getting in before, say, New Order, Depeche Mode, Joy Division, Devo, etc., and I kinda feel like they've inducted all the '70s singer-songwriters they wanted.

I think Peter Gabriel will get in, and I even think Lax25 has built up a convincing case that it could happen in 2009, but his insistence that WILL ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT HAPPEN is honestly kind of weird.

Posted by MBI on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 20:51pm


Oh Steve, you fool.

You know, when I state my case for Peter Gabriel, who will be inducted in the Class of 2009, I have done this without screaming through your keyboard. All that I have said is that Journey without Steve Perry is missing something. Journey can and will sell-out many shows and records as they can; it still does not change the fact that when Perry was in the group, they meant something.

Assuming that I do not speak for Arrow Man, since a great deal of us posters are certain of these inductions for the Class of 2009, I would surmise that 10% at least is still a chance. It does, to quote The Tramps (I think), beat 100% of nothing at all. The Hall of Fame honors artists that are innovative in their approach to the craft; clearly, all five of the likely inductees fit the bill. But I would like to know whom you, Arrow Man, may be considered to be inducted in your vote. I might even agree, just not on when it will happen.

Happy to hear,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 20:53pm


Lax25 I guess your the fool too. I'm not screaming through my computer. I'm just making a point and case for the groups that I feel should be inducted. However, if you check a couple postings back, I said I didn't care if Journey got inducted or not because honestly the R&R HOF is a joke to me. Its basically a popularity contest from the committee members. With that being said it isn't going to change how I feel about Journey. I guess remarks that have been made towards me are ok for you or someone posting as my name and making sexual remarks are alright to you, but I'm the one being the fool by making a point. See everytime I make a reason for Journey to be inducted somebody else says as to why they shouldn't. So I guess it is bad to support a band and to counter point there comments. Plus if you remember from when I first started posting it wasn't just about Journey. I also had a very in depth conversation about Heart. So I am just sticking up for groups or Artists that I feel should be inducted. I'm not a Peter Gabriel fan other than really Solsbie Hill (sorry I know spelling is wrong) and one of the ALL TIME GREAT SONGS "IN YOUR EYES". I hope for you that he does get in. I haven't followed his career so I can't remark on his qualifications but if he gets inducted or who ever gets inducted its because they have done something great and deserving even if I don't listen to them or even like them. So outside of the Mama's and the Papa's I haven't disrespected any groups that anybody has mentioned on here. But thank you very much for pointing out to me that I am a fool.

MBI I completely agree with you. None of those groups will ever get in because for whatever reason the so called Corporate Rock/Mainstream Rock/Arena Rock/Album Oriented Rock groups will never get the respect they deserve. I'm just pointing out stuff about Journey that most people might not know. Again I just think that most of the problem with these groups are that they have stayed out of the limelight other than musician or singer changes. Really none of these groups members have been in trouble with the law, in and out of rehab over and over, or died young from suicide. I'm sure if the committee could induct Amy Winehouse today they would do it. They would say she is todays version of Janis Joplin. This is why groups like Rush, Blue Oyster Cult, and others will never get in.

Posted by Steve on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 22:01pm


Steve

What you have to realize is that Liam is an idoiot. He praises the all might Fall and Cocteua Twins (mispelled but who cares) and they both SUCK. Yet slams a great band like Journey. Just remember...bands that Liam likes= crappy bands!!

Posted by moterfly on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 22:36pm


Lax25,

My preferences are Donovan, The Moody Blues, ELP, Deep Purple, Sonic Youth, Jim Croce, Link Wray, The Stooges, and Love

My expectations are Donna Summer, The Stooges, Metallica, The Hollies, Beastie Boys, Chic, Run DMC, ABBA, and The Monkees


Posted by Arrow Man on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 22:36pm


"Peter Gabriel will go in the Hall of Fame in the Class of 2009 before Genesis. Yet, by inducting Gabriel, his work with Genesis is included."--Lax25

No, Lax, his work with Genesis is not included. If Peter Gabriel gets inducted as a solo artist, it will be for his solo efforts. That's how the Hall works. Otherwise, Eric Clapton would not be in three times; John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, Curtis Mayfield, David Crosby, Steven Stills, Neil Young, whoever the hell else I'm forgetting... would not be in twice. And despite the good argument you make, it's statements like that which make us not share your absolute certainty that Peter Gabriel will be inducted in 2009.

And as much as everyone keeps going for Donna Summer here... the more we talk about her, the less certain I feel. What if they do go for the Eurythmics instead of her this year? Or solo Tina Turner? Maybe she'll be back, but as unkind as the hall voters have generally been to disco acts, it's just as likely they'll turn elsewhere for a token female nominee this year.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 09.14.08 @ 23:10pm


Again, the Performers Category inductees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2009 will be Peter Gabriel, Yusuf Islam a.k.a Cat Stevens, The Eurythmics, Donna Summer, and Chic. I am willing to discuss future classes if need be. (lax25)

Would you care to make a friendly online wager on your picks? I think they may induct Chic and Donna in this year (Total rip-off if that happens). There are at least a dozen artists that should be inducted long before any of these mentioned. If they are going to induct a female act - why not one that has had pinpoint influence like the Runaways. Or is everyone afraid of letting Joan and Lita in; just like the record companies were afraid of them when they went solo. Peter Gabriel will not go in as a solo artist before the band Genesis is inducted. And I still think that is a few years away.

Although I will bring up a Roy point. Bernie Taupin needs to be inducted. There is no Elton John without Bernie.


Posted by Dameon on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 06:10am


Steve, it's you're and Solsbury. Moterfly, it's Cocteau. By the way, the Cocteau Twins and the Fall are well deserving for induction. Go back and listen at their works.

Arrow Man, your preferences are similar to mine in that I do hope all will be inducted eventually. Your expectations are also deserving of induction. Of those nine in expectations, Donna Summer and Chic are the locks. The other seven expectations you listed will all one day go in the Hall of Fame; just not this time.

Philip, I have mentioned before that both Donna Summer and the Eurythmics will be inducted in the Class of 2009. Regarding your listings of solo as opposed to group inductions, all of the listed artists besides Neil Young went in with their initial bands prior to the eligibility factor kicking in for their entire pallette of works. Uniquely, the Crosby, Stills and Nash induction was for their solo and collaborative outlets: It was simply ideal to wait until the 25th anniversary of David Crosby's first truly solo release, "If only I could remember my name", for the three to be inducted both seperately and as a collobaration.

So, your argument that inducting Peter Gabriel does not include inducting his time with Genesis is not valid. Even if it were valid, that would still not change the qualifications for his induction. Heck, as I mentioned before, Gabriel's tours and performances do not even include his Genesis catalogue.

I am aware of our disagreements. Yet, of the rich cournicopia of artists we have discussed, many of us, including myself, have come to the conclusion that Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Hall of Fame; and that will be in the Class of 2009, though others may differ in the time. Nonetheless, this is the year. If that makes me a fool, so be it.

Wondering if it is porpoise or purpose,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 06:28am


Depeche Mode!!!!

Posted by Mon-eL on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 09:34am


"What you have to realize is that Liam is an idoiot."

Oh, the sweet, sweet irony.

Posted by Liam on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 10:31am


How about the Ohio Players. They were hitting the charts when they were on Westbound for 3 studio albums and really hit the charts hard when they went to Mercury.
Kiss
Donna Summer
War
The Time
Genesis
non artist: Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis

Posted by newbie on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 10:48am


Yes
Rush
Jethro Tull
King Crimson
Emerson, Lake and Palmer
Genesis
Chicago
Electric Flag
Tower of Power
Ten Years After
Ten Wheel Drive
The Commodores
Kool & The Gang
Blood, Sweat & Tears

Posted by ginju on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 13:04pm


Ginju, I agree with you choices on all but one: Ten Years After. Alvin Lee and co. never did manage to be unique in their approach.

With many of your band choices, it could go either way for individuals or the collective as a whole. For example, we may dispute the hows of inducting Genesis: I and others see it as individuals being inducted, still others see just the group. In this scenario, the first inductee in the Genesis tree for the Class of 2009 will be Peter Gabriel. Afterwards, it could go either way.

In another matter, while I cannot see Electric Flag by itself go in, I am certain that if the Hall of Fame ever got to inducting posthumously Michael Bloomfield and Buddy Miles, it would be well received.

Thus, the picks for potential inductees not named Ten Years After is quite valid. Of those, Peter Gabriel will be inducted in the Class of 2009. Genesis and/or Steve Hackett and/or Tony Banks will soon follow. Then we will see other inductees to come by.

Variations on a concept by,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Monday, 09.15.08 @ 17:54pm


Liam

You are quite possibly the biggest schmuck on this site. Point out everyone's spelling errors and mock them. I would rather have some spelling errors than your lowly objective opinion on music. So go stick your head back in your books. It's sad that in reality the only person that you have face to face contact with is the Dominoes delivery man!

Posted by moterfly on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 03:49am


The Hollies
Neil Diamond
Judy Collins
Donna Summer
Chic
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Afrika Bambaataa
Beastie Boys
RUN DMC

Posted by Roy on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 06:06am


"You are quite possibly the biggest schmuck on this site."

No shit! Because my life wouldn't actually be complete without approval from some internet tard.

Is it me or are these self-indulgent rants from moterfly getting kinda tiresome?

"Point out everyone's spelling errors and mock them."

Nope, just yours, what with yours being rather regular and all.

"I would rather have some spelling errors than your lowly objective opinion on music."

OMG Y? u cud hav bof!

"So go stick your head back in your books."

So, I'm interested in what the hell is wrong with reading - really. Obviously you've done very little (else you wouldn't make so many spelling errors) so I don't think your opinion on it is particularly valid.

"It's sad that in reality the only person that you have face to face contact with is the Dominoes delivery man!"

Yeah, that'll be your career peak, right?

Posted by Liam on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 10:52am


Liam and Moterfly: You guys have got to make up. Look, we are up to witches and satan now. So much more fun!

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 12:08pm


"Philip, I have mentioned before that both Donna Summer and the Eurythmics will be inducted in the Class of 2009. Regarding your listings of solo as opposed to group inductions, all of the listed artists besides Neil Young went in with their initial bands prior to the eligibility factor kicking in for their entire pallette of works."

Interesting, but I believe you are wrong. When Curtis Mayfield was inducted, his work with the Impressions had no bearing whatsoever on the merits of his solo work for which he was inducted. This btw, also bleeds over a lot from the Steve Perry arguments. I'm not sure how much you got involved in that thread, but feel free to take another looksee and read our points on that one (but don't bump the thread. Please let that dead horse lie). Just as inducting solo Steve Perry would not be cumulative of his work as Journey's lead singer, so also inducting Peter Gabriel alone would be cumulative of Genesis. Despite all those artists going in with their bands before eligibility as soloists, the fact remains that both the bands and the solo efforts have their own inductions, which very much creates precedent, imo.

"Uniquely, the Crosby, Stills and Nash induction was for their solo and collaborative outlets: It was simply ideal to wait until the 25th anniversary of David Crosby's first truly solo release, "If only I could remember my name", for the three to be inducted both seperately and as a collobaration."

Do you have any hardcore evidence of this? This is a big claim right here. And by evidence, I mean, was "Love The One You're With" talked about as a major achievement when the trio was inducted, by their presenter? Was David Crosby's solo release included in the montage footage at the induction ceremony? CS&N was inducted as a trio for their work AS a trio. None of the solo side stuff.

"So, your argument that inducting Peter Gabriel does not include inducting his time with Genesis is not valid. Even if it were valid, that would still not change the qualifications for his induction. Heck, as I mentioned before, Gabriel's tours and performances do not even include his Genesis catalogue.

I am aware of our disagreements. Yet, of the rich cournicopia of artists we have discussed, many of us, including myself, have come to the conclusion that Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Hall of Fame; and that will be in the Class of 2009, though others may differ in the time. Nonetheless, this is the year. If that makes me a fool, so be it."

Lax, I just want to make absolutely clear that I don't have a problem with Peter Gabriel getting into the Hall Of Fame as a solo artist. I personally don't like his music, or Genesis, or Phil Collins either... but I recognize the importance and impact that all three incarnations have had over the years.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 17:58pm


Point well taken.

We are a message board debating the merits of artists to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. We are not to bash each other over the head. At least, this will not work in a computer enviroment.

By the way, my thanks go to Future Rock Hall for having Peter Gabriel the front page artist to consider for induction in their poll. This is yet another indication for the knowledge that Gabriel will be inducted in the Hall of Fame Class of 2009. The time for his induction and being named alongside the greatest in the field of rock music has come.

On another note, I disagree with Fox News columnist Roger Friedman's assertion that Chubby Checker needs to be inducted. I would note induct him; what was there outside of those Twist songs he did? Besides, Hank Ballard wrote the firdt Twist, and he is inducted. Yet, I am open to discussing Checker's merits.

The twist is not the Strand,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 18:09pm


Interesting you mention the Checker. Billboard made their own list recently of the Top 100 #1 songs of the Rock era... "The Twist" by Chubby Checker came in at #1.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 19:44pm


Stevie Ray Vaughan? he doesn't deserve it next year, hopefully the carpenters and bread would make it.

Posted by akeem on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 20:54pm


akeem...let's just say I'm thankful you're NOT on the nominating committee...!! The Carpenters and Bread??? You left out the Association!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 21:01pm


He also left out Air Supply and the Captain and Tennille.

Posted by Brian on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 21:05pm


lol Sad thing is, you COULD make an influence argument for the Carpenters. I wouldn't, but I could.

Posted by Philip on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 21:13pm


Liam

To bad that this forum is your peak. When you grow up and leave your apartment and computer ( hint get a job and join the real world) then talk to me. You have no real job or life. Well, I suppose one job...slamming people on this site. Fly away little bird and listen to your crappy Cockatoo Twins. The reason nobody knows or cares for them is because they suck. Not known in america is because they............drum roll please........................THEY SUCK!!!! Stick your head back in a book buddy.

Posted by moterfly on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 22:51pm


Lax 25 -

I wandered over here & had forgotten that I had posted regarding Metallica and the Smiths in response to a post from earlier. You noted that I was wrong in regards to comparing Metallica to the Smiths. In reality I was attempting to contrast them, not compare them. Perhaps my wording left something to be desired.

Posted by Cheesecrop on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 05:37am


akeem...let's just say I'm thankful you're NOT on the nominating committee...!! The Carpenters and Bread??? You left out the Association!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Tuesday, 09.16.08 @ 21:01pm


Not that bad of choices... I would think The Carpenters should have been in long aga Also the Association.. Karen could sing and gee the songs were "MUSIC" with no Social "message" on how you should think or be.. They left the being you up to you..

Posted by mrxyz on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 05:50am


The Carpenters performed some of the most beautiful of the early '70s; sometimes I think they were a better act than Joni Mitchell. Of course, they are nowhere near rock enough for even the notoriously flexible Rock Hall of Fame, and my opinion of them is probably inflated by the fact that ignoring their many crappier hits (like their desecration of "Ticket to Ride").

Posted by MBI on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 07:47am


i think The Cars might be nominated this year, with acts like The Pretenders, The Talking Heads, and Blondie making it in i'm sure there time is soon

Posted by Greg on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 15:07pm


I love the Carpenters, too, but let's face it, if they got inducted, their presenter at the ceremony would be Celine Dion, and who the f*** wants to see that? lol

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 17:55pm


So, I see we are discussing soft rock then?

Well, here are my opinions on the acts akeem and MBI have discussed:

The Carpenters were amongst the first pop artists I clearly remember listening albums to when I was quite young; as in, baby years. My parents were very much into hearing their catalogue after Karen Carpenter passed away. Now, while it is too late for Karen to see any fruitful events that may come, Richard is still around. I have little doubt that he would be pleased with an induction. The one caveat I have is that there had appeared to be a lack of individuality with respect to both of The Carpenters. That is to say, their individual works (and Richard's output post-1983) have been lessened without the both of them in the same recording. In many ways, The Carpenters are an act which we may think of them, what might have been? When Karen Carpenter died, popular music had shifted to a more synth based format. I also wondered if she had lived, would the two of them have expanded their creative approach.

Bread I would consider. David Gates and Jimmy Griffin were quite the singer-songwriters and musicians that appeared sentimental without being smarmy. Bread even rocked out a few times, namely with Griffin's songs. As well, Bread were subversive: the band name itself was considered by Gates to be a f--- you to the business in wanting fancier names.

The Association are another group that could also merit an induction. Honestly, they were one of the few folk-sunshine pop acts from the 1960s that were impressive on their own merits. Great harmonies to go along with their writings.

The Cars should have already been inducted. Though Benjamin Orr has passed away, he and Ric Ocasek, Greg Hawkes, and Elliot Easton and David Robinson were great rockers that forged new wave sensibilities before the term was even invented. They were as well, one of the better acts from the 1970s to expand their palette into the 1980s.

Moterfly, The Cocteau Twins are quite interesting in their approach to alternative music. Have you heard their works? If not, then who are you to criticise?

Cheesecrop, point well taken regarding the contrasting influences between The Smiths and Metallica. It does make greater sense now of what you had mentioned.

Back to my dissertation regarding not inducting Chubby Checker. I do note that "The Twist" was named #1 for Billboard; I simply disagree with the results of that poll. As I mentioned before, Hank Ballard wrote "The Twist", and not only was his version better in my opinion, but Ballard was immeasurably a greater artist than Chubby Checker. As well, Checker's second most notable song, "Let's Twist Again", is rather pedestrain. Lyrically, it is regarding doing the twist yet again! As it were the year before!

Frankly, the early 1960s in popular rock was infested with dance crazes, nonsensical lyrics, and copies. A good example of a copy is "The Peppermint Twist"; which is basically the same dance as the twist. Yet, what a twist it was supposed to be. Honestly, current musical stylings of popular rock at the time only began to matter again once the British Invasion took place. And of that British Invasion, we can all agree that The Beatles were the foursome that made it matter. Chubby Checker represented popular rock music at its most base, which is not rich enough. In a related note, songs which describe a dance as its main yrics are, for me, not interesting. As I stated in my previous ending line, the Twist is not The Strand. With The Strand, as popularized by Roxy Music, it just explains who is doing the Strand, without even explaining the Strand. Bryan ferry, in that regard, was a rather keen lyricist.

Well, exceptioning Chubby Cjecker, the artists I have mentioned deserve induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. The Carpenters, though, may be very difficult to consider. Nevertheless, it is not likely that any of the artists listed will bew inducted into the Class of 2009. ANd again, unlike Roger Friedman, I am not too certain that Bon Jovi will go in this year. From my accounts and knowledge, this years inductees will include Peter Gabriel, Cat Stevens a.k.a Yusuf Islam, The Eurythmics, Donna Summer, and Chic. Peter Gabriel is the lock for induction; possibly even Donna Summer. The added three are very likely to be inducted, though.

At least we did not discuss the Chicken Dance,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 18:24pm


"From my accounts and knowledge, this years inductees will include Peter Gabriel, Cat Stevens a.k.a Yusuf Islam, The Eurythmics, Donna Summer, and Chic. Peter Gabriel is the lock for induction; possibly even Donna Summer. The added three are very likely to be inducted, though."

If you don't mind my asking... WHAT accounts and knowledge are you talking about? You keep making it sound like you have inside information, like having the nomination committee's boardroom bugged or something. Could you please explain what you mean by this?

And no, I don't think we're ACTUALLY seriously discussing soft rock. If we were, I would support the Carpenters induction. They're the major reason that Adult Contemporary music changed from your grandparents' Sinatra & Mancini format into a more dynamic (both stylistically and engineering-levels-wise). But having that be your mark of influence is like having been the major influence for NKOTB, Hanson, Jonas Brothers, etc. You just wouldn't want to display that banner too proudly.

The Association are good, but not Rock Hall worthy. They've been inducted into the Vocal Group Hall Of Fame... that's a fair reward for their efforts. Unfortunately, Bread is ALSO in the VGHoF... how, I don't know. I can't stand their music, but more than that... WHERE are the vocal harmonies? That's what the VGHF does.. recognize groups that had great vocal harmonies... that isn't Bread. They don't belong in the Rock Hall either.

Chubby Checker... we'll have to agree to disagree. Rock and Roll music was getting squelched in the early '60s and dance music was the way it was kept alive, and Chubby Checker was a major reason for that. Hank Ballard's a great musician, but I just think that Chubby's version of "The Twist" was better. It was more lively, energetic, effervescent, etc. That's rock'n'roll to me: the fun and energy of youth culture. Maybe you don't think that that period of rock history deserves recognition.... well honestly, I feel the same way about British new-wave.

Posted by Philip on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 19:31pm


I don't know how you are so certain Lax that Peter Gabriel is getting in just because he was in Time magazine, that don't mean nothing. Dane cook was also in Time as one of the most influential people on earth and he ain't getting into no comedy hall of fame.

And I even like Peter Gabriel.

Posted by Brian on Wednesday, 09.17.08 @ 20:58pm


Brian, Peter Gabriel is not Dane Cook. By contrasting the two, nolinkage is given.

As I mentioned before, Peter Gabriel is heading into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 not only because he was named amongst Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the World. Yet, it certainly helps the induction of Gabriel.

By the by, Philip, I have gotten this listing of inductees for the Class of 2009 due to a intricate web of past performance in the induction cycle, as is the case regarding Donna Summer; linkages with fellow inductees in the same class, such as Gabriel playing the flute on Cat Stevens' "Mona Boka Jauron" and Nile Rodgers' production recordings done with both Annie Lennox, Peter Gabriel, and Donna Summer; anniversary celebrations, including the Eurythmics celebrating 25 years of "Sweet dreams are made of this", both the album and song; and an emphasis for this Class of 2009 in inducting artists that were either/or politically conscious and innovators in dance music. When all is added in these projections, the list of inductees is finalized. To note, I do not have the boardroom bugged.

In addition, while I can see your opinion regarding the early 1960s dance crazes helping a then limping form of popular music, I continue to disagree with your assertions in respect to Chubby Checker and other contemporaries. And on that note, rock music is not about being fun for the youth culture exclusively: it is a field of lyrical and sonic unrest regarding creative minds, through the usage of electronic means. Anything outside of that unrest leaves the form a mockery, as can be detected during that point in the 1950s and early 1960s when certain acts treated the form of rock music as a mocked novelty. Exhibit Q: Kay Starr and the "Rock and Roll Waltz", crappy song from a mediocre artist.

Guess the reference in the last sentence,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 06:10am


The Hollies
Neil Diamond
Judy Collins
Donna Summer
Chic
The Stooges
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Afrika Bambaataa
Beastie Boys
RUN DMC


Posted by Roy on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 17:01pm


Well, I wouldn't say anything as to other contemporaries of Chubby. Really, no other dance craze artist even came close to the heights that Chubby attained.

And I have to disagree about your philosophy of rock and roll. Yes, the field of lyrical and sonic unrest definitely applies, but that's not ALL it is. It is not a mockery to use rock and roll to express emotions other than unrest. That is emotionally myopic and not really reflective of rock 'n' roll as a whole. Kay Starr's example really isn't a good one. If you look at Perry Como's music of the late 50's, he uses Haley-esque stylings to make subtle jabs at rock'n'roll. Kay's song is somewhat in a similar vein.

And I think you'll find the HoF somewhat reflects that too, with their inductees. You've got your deep, contemplative, and unrested acts; but you've also got the joie d'vivre, excited to be alive and realize that warts and all, they still lead a pretty blessed life, and dare I say it... *gasp* HAPPINESS!?!! And you know what? Both camps belong in the Hall. Rock and Roll was, is, and will continue to be both those things and many other things beside. And it's not a bad thing to for Mr. Spock to acknowledge his human side. "Fun" is not a dirty word in the rock'n'roll lexicon.

Posted by Philip on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 17:07pm


Point taken, Philip.

I suppose this is one reason that I am certain that Chic will be inducted in the Class of 2009. The difference between Chic and artists suchas Chubby Checker, quite notably, is in the details in the lyrics and the pallette of sounds presented. In additon, Nile Rodgers, Bernard Edwards, and Tony Thompson wrote their own songs and played their own instruments. And the style was in a dico form, which when done right was certainly more interesting than early dance music: by that I mean, even more pedestrian work hat we all enjoy, yet when the time is right (parties.)

In that regard, Donna Summer went both ways in fun and deep ideals. At times, it was even noted in one song to have both forms of lyrical content. The Eurythmics were more into introspective writings in an extrovert format. Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) was quite introspective yet unique in his compositions. Peter Gabriel was and is both fun in the sound collages (his bigger hits on the charts that reflected his influences) while maintaining deeper lyrical outputs.

it is this approach to individuality in writings and recording formats that have positioned the five artists listed (Gabriel, the Eurythmics, Chic, Summer, and Stevens) to be the inductees for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Class of 2009. On this list of inductees, we can all agreeon their deservance for induction, if not all of us agreeing that the induction will take class for the Class of 2009. Even so, particularly regarding Peter Gabriel, a consensus has been reached amongst many of us that will culminate in the induction for the Class of 2009. The time has come, the wait is over. And soon I will have something more to say.

In memoriam of Richard Wright (paraphtasing "Time")

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 19:30pm


Lax25 ...In my opinion, the closest thing to a "shoo-in" is probably going to be Stevie Ray Vaughan, strictly on his far-reaching influence on players in general and his perpetuation of the blues...just a fabulous player. Of course, he had influences of his own, but what he did was definitely an emulation, a step above what people like Albert King did (no, I don't think Albert King was anywhere near the player SRV was). He made listening to the blues (which rock is an offspring of) cool again.

I'm not going to compare him to other hopeful inductees because it would be comparing apples to oranges, but his contribution and influence are enormous.

Posted by Gitarzan on Thursday, 09.18.08 @ 20:28pm


I do understand your point regarding SRV.

The sad thing is, Stevie Ray Vaughan died in a helicopter crash in 1990; thereby precluding any chance of having Vaughan see himself get inducted in person. Perhaps if an induction ever does take place, Jimmy Vaughan might be at the ceremony to accept the award.

in another note, eight years after he died, SRV was ranked #70 among VH1's ranking of the 100 Greatest Rock Artists. This, mind you, was back when VH1 was still about the videos and their histories. Interestingly, Peter Gabriel was ranked #53. What this tells me and others is that, while there is no telling what SRV would have done had he not died, there was a continued body of work that Gabriel ammassed that alloted him to be ranked considerably higher than most artists that were either on the list or considered prior to the finalization of the list. As well, exceptioning Nirvana whom are still not yet eligible (and with the fact that Kurt Cobain is no longer with us), all listed higher than Peter Gabriel have been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. To those that know the list, that also includes Miles Davis, whom I never thought it possible he would be inducted.

With that in mind, it is possible that, although posthumous, Stevie Ray Vaughan will be inducted sometine soon. It is a given that Peter Gabriel will be inducted in the Class of 2009. And while SRV may not be inducted posthumously this time, his name and works will likely be a finalist. This is, though, Gabriel's time.

Blues is more in the spirit than early dance,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 08:00am


The Hollies
Herman's Hermits
Gram Parsons
Neil Diamond
Judy Collins
Donna Summer
Chic
The Stooges
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Afrika Bambaataa
Beastie Boys
RUN DMC

Posted by Roy on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 09:21am


The Hollies
Herman's Hermits
Gram Parsons
Neil Diamond
Judy Collins
Donna Summer
Chic
The Stooges
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Afrika Bambaataa
Beastie Boys
RUN DMC

you idiot the last 3 are rap, and last i heard this is a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and not the Rap HOF
good taste on the other choices,. but may i add

Steve Miller
ELP
Manfred Mann
Doobie Brothers
Jethro Tull
Deep Purple
Scorpions

Posted by jeff on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 19:55pm


I'm torn. I'd love to see Peter Gabriel inducted, but I'd also love to see Lax's ridiculous, unjustified certainty proved wrong.

Posted by senorbad on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 20:26pm


I agree with you senorbad.

Posted by Brian on Friday, 09.19.08 @ 20:46pm


Lax... I'm curious as to what you mean by "details in the lyrics" regarding Chic. In my opinion, Chic's lyrics are slightly less drivel than KC & the Sunshine Band's.

Not that it matters much to me. Lyrics aren't as important to me as the composition, simply because lyrics are a guessing game for me half the time. I've got really good ears for pitch, and I can hear soft whispers, so I know SOMETHING'S being said, but when it comes to discerning WHAT is actually being said, I'm not the one to ask. So yeah, lyrics have seldom mattered to me a whole lot.

I'm not convinced by the palette of sound either. Maybe it's just because what I've heard by them doesn't convince me to dig deeper, but really, they sound like typical disco to me.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 00:12am


Senorbad and Brian, the certainty of Peter Gabriel being inducted into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009 is not ridiculous, nor unjustified by any means. Considering we all agree on Gabriel's merits, you cannot have it both ways in seeing him inducted and yet wanting to see it not occur in respect to mine and others certainties. We all know it is going to occur for Peter Gabriel to be inducted in the Class of 2009. The case and merits have been made.

Philip, Chic never sounded like typical disco. Indeed, as time went on, they began to sound more like heavy funk. Granted, it was more realized by the 1980s when Nile Rodgers, Bernard Edwards, and Tony Thompson were doing producing and session work.

Rather amused,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 07:11am


Let me put it this way!!:

Let the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame induct Afrika Bambaataa, The Beastie Boy and RUN DMC and get it out of their system so they can go back and focus on Rock And Roll artists! We won't have to worry about any other 80s Rap acts being inducted because the others didn't make much music. We've got 7 more good years before the 1990s acts start showing up! If they do!!

Posted by Roy on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 07:44am


Lax25 ...you have to admit that Peter Gabriel getting in at this point is pretty subjective, at best. Are the odds in his favor? One might think so, but you never know about this nominating committee...they might throw us all a curve and induct Andy Kim, instead (Ugh...it was even painful to even SAY that!!!).

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 08:18am


See how painful it was? i said "even" twice...lol!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 08:20am


Unfavored genres always get at least one person in the hall. The committee doesn't like heavy metal but they let in Black Sabbath. They don't like glam rock but they let in Bowie. They don't prog but they let in Pink Floyd. And they don't like disco but they really like Chic. As well they should, Chic is one of the most influential bands of the '70s; the funk that survived through the '80s and '90s were basically their spawn (theirs and Prince's, at least), and certainly they had a heavy influence on hiphop as well.

I find it funny that people argue that Run-DMC and Beastie Boys need to be out of a Rock Hall of Fame, then support artists who objectively rock less. What's the Doobies' hardest-rocking song? China Groove? Long Train Runnin'? Compare that to Sabotage or Rock Box and you tell who rocks harder.

Posted by MBI on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 08:45am


In Billboard's top 100 acts of all time, the highest person on the list of people above was... Donna Summer! Ms Summer came in at no.24

Donna has enjoyed more success around the world than any of the other featured artists and she is also very influential. If she does not get inducted, then we must have reasons why not.

She has every right to be inducted.

Posted by Dean on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 12:24pm


"Philip, Chic never sounded like typical disco. Indeed, as time went on, they began to sound more like heavy funk. Granted, it was more realized by the 1980s when Nile Rodgers, Bernard Edwards, and Tony Thompson were doing producing and session work."--Lax25

Aside from "Good Times," I've never found Chic to be that funky. Full props for "Good Times" but I don't think that should be enough. Their three other big songs, "Le Freak," "I Want Your Love," and ESPECIALLY "Dance, Dance, Dance (Yowzah, Yowzah, Yowzah)" really don't speak well of Chic's contributions. Granted, oftentimes the commercial successes paint an entirely inaccurate portrait, but if not, Chic is a group I don't think should ever be inducted.

MBI-- Disco is already represented in the Hall with the inclusions of the Bee Gees and Earth, Wind, And Fire. They haven't inducted any disco *divas* yet, and that may bode well for Donna Summer, but I say don't be surprised if Heart or Pat Benatar appear this year instead.

Dean, by your logic, Pat Boone and Janet Jackson deserve to be in ahead of Donna Summer. Just sayin'.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 17:26pm


Philip ...Whassup, man?? Just to interject something as a guitar player, most of Nile Rodger's guitar work is a blueprint for playing funk guitar. Those riffs aren't the easiest I've ever played, but a lot of fun when you get the hang of it.

Back in the day, it seemed everyone was jumping on the "disco" bandwagon. Chic was maybe 50/50 (songs like "Le Freak' and "Dance, Dance, Dance" were obviously about...dancing). I think overall that era gets a bad rap...usually by people with "two left feet", if you know what I mean...

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 17:46pm


Gitarzan, can I get a timeline on that one? When did Niles Rodgers start funking the house? Chic rose to prominence well after heyday of Sly & the Family Stone, who I've heard as being largely credited as being funk innovators; the Temptations' era of funk ("Can't Get Next To You," "Ball Of Confusion," "Cloud 9" etc.), and after Parliament/Funkadelic had started making waves. For Niles Rodgers, at least in the Chic era, to have made the blueprints for funk, he'd have to have overwritten the previous blueprints, because funk was in place before Chic. Now if we're talking about pre-Chic, then you've got a case for Niles Rodgers as a Side-Man, or possibly a Non-Performer for his billz-paying-skillz as a producer.

I don't hate disco out-and-out, even though I'm DEFINITELY one of those people with two left feet. My moves cannot legally be called "dancing." But the disco I tend to enjoy is either rooted heavily in Philly soul or is by established artists, ("Here Comes The Night" by the Beach Boys, "Who Loves You" by the Four Seasons, "(Wish I Could Be Like) Superman" by the Kinks, etc.), or yeah, embarrassing as it is I admit it, is the campier pop-disco like ABBA and the Village People.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 18:38pm


Philip...let me re-phrase this...one could do a lot worse than learning funk guitar from Nile Rodgers. Maybe not THE blueprint, but a blueprint just the same. His stuff is actually a little tricky to play (well, for me anyway). Now if we're talking about ORIGINATORS, then the names that pop up would be Jimmy Nolen (James Brown) and Eddie Hazel (Parliament). Freddie Stone's guitar playing in Sly & the Family Stone didn't stand out as much as Larry Graham's bass playing.

I see where you were coming from, Bro...it's cool! Sorry about your two left feet...LOL!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:29pm


You do not need to fear; Andy Kim is never getting inducted! In fact Gitarzan, I will raise you one Andy Kim for one Paper Lace: yes, the crappy band that sang of an "East Side" of Chicago, when there is no east side of Chicago.

Likewise, Philip, neither will the Village People ever get inducted. We all in form ruined the Village People when we never looked at the subtext of their songs.

Following up on my reasons for the evntual Class of 2009 induction of Chic, it is true they started out as fairly discofied with strings and lush backings. As time went on, their funk got harder. I will give an example: Tony Thompson was one of the hardest hitting drummers in his time. Go back and hear his drumming on "Some Like it Hot", one of Robert Palmer's great tracks. Palmer by the way is also deserving of induction, albeit posthumous since he died in 2003 (same as Thompson.) As well, Thompson almost became the spark to initiate a Led Zeppelin album in the 1980s. Both Page and Plant attested to his drumming with them on Live Aid and demo work he did with them as having been at the time, the one drummer that could fill John Bonham's shoes, if you will.

And that is just Tony Thompson. Subsequently, both Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards, whom died in 1996, were and still are amongst the hardest funkers in recording. Heck, even in the days of Chic, they were nearly hardcore in their lyrical content. "Le Freak", for instance, was initially named "F--- Off."

The odds are definitely in favor of Peter Gabriel being inducted into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009. Gabriel is, in fact, the lock for induction this year. Just passing into the Borders nearby, for example, Gabriel appeared on the cover of, I beleive, Filter describing his impact on his numerous endeavors, by way of an exclusive interview. Only once, interestingly, did the author mention Genesis. Though that was for good measure. Clearly, the Hall of Fame Foundation Nominating Committee has gotten it right in giving him the induction so richly honored and deserved.

In all notices, this year's class of inductess (Peter Gbariel, Chic, Donna Summer, Yusuf Islam a.k.a. Cat Stevens, and the Eurythmics), along with Bernie Taupin being inducted as a non-performer and Ringo Starr as a sideman and perhaps Joan Baez as an early influence, clearly represent not only one of the Hall of Fame's best class years. The Class of 2009 represents getting things right for well deserved inductees, some of whom have waited a while for this time to come. It will come, and we all know it to be the list of inductees.

One more thing: Long Train and China Grove were not the Dobbie Brothers' hardest rocking songs. For that answer, the likely choice would be "Taking It to the Streets", or perhaps "It Keeps you Running". Both of these came in the era of Michael McDonald. And both are more memorable than the pre and post Mcdonald Doobies.

A question: Quien do es Macho? Def Leppard or the Archies,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:33pm


Ok, G, thanks for the clarification. It's cool. I don't hate on Chic entirely, just not my choice even in the field of disco.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:34pm


Does anyone remember when the U.S. Navy wanted to use "In The Navy" by the Village People as a recruiting song? What a riot that was...

WE WANT YOU! WE WANT YOU! WE WANT YOU AS A NEW RECRUIT...ROFL!!!!! Hysterical!!!!

Posted by Gitarzan on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:41pm


Hey Lax... lol... no I wouldn't seriously campaign for the Village People for the Rock Hall. The VOCAL GROUP Hall, yes. Listen to "Go West" and tell me they don't know how to harmonize. (And Gitarzan, 'm'fraid I don't remember that... I was born in the eighties.)

And I gotta say, though, Lax, you're making the comments that make it hard to be taken seriously again. Bernie as a Non-Performer, maybe. In fact, that'd be awesome. But Joan will NEVER be inducted as an Early Influence. She became eligible in 1985, meaning her first recording was in 1960... 5 years after rock 'n' roll took off. So I don't think she's eligible as an Early Influence. A Performer, yes, but not an EI. And Ringo as a side-man? Do you realize what a double insult that is for him? You're basically saying either A) the Beatles were a trio of guitarists that had a regular session musician playing drums on their records, which is absurd, or B) that he's just a session man on the records for which he is credited as the artist, which plain contradicts itself. Unless you know of a track record Ringo has of playing drums on many other artists' songs, your claim for Ringo as a Side-Man holds less water than a stone.

As for the Doobies, I always thought of "Jesus Is Just Alright With Me" as their hardest rocker, though "Takin' It To The Streets" gets an honorable mention.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 19:55pm


Philip, I do understand that with Ringo Starr, it can go either way. It was just a thought I had. Same with Joan Baez; again, another thought I had for an artist that can go either way.

What I and many of us are certain, though, is that Peter Gabriel, Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam), Chic, Donna Summer, the Eurythmics, and in the non-performers category Bernie Taupin, will be inducted into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009. Of the six listed, Gabriel is the certain lock, with Summer and Chic close by. Stevens and the Euythmics and Taupin are likely inductees for the Class of 2009, for good measure.

By the by, Philip, it matters not if I am taken seriously on this board. The matter is, we know who will be inducted; or, if some prefer, are likely to be inducted. What is important is that a consensus has been reached on inducting these artists for the Class of 2009.

I am aware of the Village People's close part harmonies, notably on "Go West". Nonetheless, that does not reverse my thoughts on thinking they were better than, say, Go West. And even that duo I would not induct; little impact given on their part.

Aware of a jarring contrast,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 20:12pm


Lax, you realize you're an insane person, right?

Posted by MBI on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 22:41pm


Lax25 said,

"Long Train and China Grove were not the Dobbie Brothers' hardest rocking songs. For that answer, the likely choice would be "Taking It to the Streets", or perhaps "It Keeps you Running". Both of these came in the era of Michael McDonald. And both are more memorable than the pre and post Mcdonald Doobies."


It Keeps You Running is not "hard rock" in the least. It is soft rock/adult contemporary. China Grove is the real deal as well as Without You and Rockin Down The Highway.

Posted by classicrocker on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 22:50pm


"I am aware of the Village People's close part harmonies, notably on "Go West". Nonetheless, that does not reverse my thoughts on thinking they were better than, say, Go West. And even that duo I would not induct; little impact given on their part."

lol

If nothing else, though, I think it's an interesting theory that you think those will be the five inducted because they're all about a degree or so away from each other. Like I said, don't know if I agree, but it is interesting, even if a Coast To Coast kind of way.

Posted by Philip on Saturday, 09.20.08 @ 23:05pm


after reading this list im more convinced than ever that hof is a bad joke.how are acts like joy divion,chic and the stooges just to name few of of the many that are so iconic ive never heard of them,possibly going in ahead of super groups like yes,genesis,rush or jethro tull.im sure chic must have broke the record for selling out the garden that yes once held(more than led zeppelin or bruce sringstein by the way in 1980)or 5 in row by genesis in 1986 so i must be out of the loop to the true genius of these groups!the fact that these bands who have sold hundreds of millions of albums sold out hundreds of the most famous concert halls in the world and still do today(ya that last genesis tour was a real flop)makes the rarhof an embarassment.but im sure the 7 fans of joy division would disagree

Posted by bill upperman on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 08:16am


I have so many comments in mind on your post, that I'll just list the most important ones:

1. This list is not even from the Hall of Fame, it's a prediction (did you notice the title? Future Rock Hall Predicts, not The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Lists the 2009 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees) from a unrelated site. To this point, I'm not even sure if the Hall of Fame knows who or what a Joy Division is. Basing your opinion on the Hall of Fame on a list from a site that has nothing to do with the Hall of Fame, is just outright stupid.

2. Your comment says more about you than on the Rock Hall. Judging by the bands you do and the ones you don't know, you probably stopped listening to new music after '77. Anyone who took any interest in punk, dance or alternative rock knows Chic, Joy Division and The Stooges. "Le Freak" and "Good Times" completely passed you by? Never heard of Iggy Pop? And I guess you probably missed the whole fuss about "Control", that award winning film about Joy Division's frontman Ian Curtis. Now the acts you do list all come from the same genre and the same time. That can't be a coincidence. If you really want to discuss the Hall of Fame, look also for bands outside of genres you like. This just makes you sound like a fanboy, not a person to have a serious discussion with.

3. So you never heard of these three bands. Does that make them any less? The Hall of Fame is ironically not for the most famous bands, but for the most important, the ones that influenced other acts or had a major impact on the history of music.
On a further note, I can tell you there are quite a lot of people on this planet that never heard of Rush or Yes, or only know Genesis as "that band Phil Collins sometimes joined". I went to Jethro Tull concert last year and told many people about it. I discovered that that name didn't ring a bell with quite a lot of people. And not just 20-year olds, a couple of them were 40+. Just because you consider a band a worldfamous supergroup, doesn't mean that is true.

4. So Yes and Genesis sold out a lot of concerts? Congratulations, you just argumented for the induction of Celine Dion. Welcome in the Hall of Fame, Kc & The Sunshine Band! Sales are not a good indication for geniusness or historical importance. The best artists rarely reach a high ranking in the Billboard 100. There could be a case made for the induction of the bands you listed, but it is not merely enough to base it just on ticket sales.

Posted by The_Claw on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 11:24am


Deep Purple, Ringo Starr, Alice Cooper, Judas Priest, Ted Nugent, Rush, Joe Walsh, Blue Osyter Cult, T.Rex, The Outlaws, Thin Lizzy, Tommy James and the Shondells, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, Ten Years After, Motorhead.

I would like to see a few of them get in, and also what the hell is with this rap in the rock n roll hall of fame. Last time I check it was called the ROCK N ROLL HALL OF FAME not the rap and hip/hop hall of fame. They should not be aloud in.

Posted by Klementowski on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 17:56pm


Klementowski, two caveats on you list. First, The Outlaws by themselves will not be inducted; a case can be made for Gary Rossington on his own. Second, Ten Years After will never be inducted: they simply were not that great. Other than that, a fine list.

To note, I do not beleive that what I write is insanity. Quite the opposite: it is very sane. Though, MBI, you can think what you want about me; it could possibly be true on your end. The statement of insanity, however, is not relevant.

Joy Divison has more than 7 fans, Bill. You did not even have the courtesy to include New Order. Either/or, both acts are clearly deserving of induction. Now if only we can convince Bernard Sumners and Peter Hook to tolerate each other for a bit, I think.

Classicrocker, "China Grove" may rock, yet I am just not sure. You ever noticed that those lyrics just seem to wear off as the song progresses? And this was not only that song from the Doobie Brothers; much of their songs at the time had lyrics that were rather basic. Say what you may regarding Michael McDonald: he certainly knew his wording and messages. It is a reason why I seem to forget the words to "China Grove", yet I do recite by memory "What A Fool Beleives".

I will need to say that I do not listen to Coast to Coast that often: only on the web during some down time. Yet, there is a connection between the five inductees into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009: Peter Gabriel, Donna Summer, Chic, Yusuf Islam a.k.a. Cat Stevens, and The Eurythmics. At its least, all five have used funk at one time or another that was more harder edge. As well, each of them added an exotic pallette of soundscapes that delved into world influences. And yes, each of the artists are connected to Peter Gabriel in that he has colloborated or appeared in live concert events with each.

Bill, in your four progressive art rock picks, to which all deserve being inducted, here is how they may be inducted. We know that Peter Gabriel will be inducted into the Class of 2009. Afterwards, an induction for Genesis and/or Steve Hckett and/or Tony Banks will commence. I beleive the next to be inducted will be Yes; highly influential, superb musicianship and words. After that, the next likelyhood will be Rush: I have mentioned before their deservance. Then, Jethro Tull. Admittedly, Tull has not been that interesting since keyboardist David (Dee) Palmer left the band in the early 1980s. But for being the founding forebearers of Progressive Folk, or at least Heavy Folk, Jethro Tull needs to be inducted.

By the way, there were a lot of duos from the 1970s and 1980s, such as Go West, that attempted to rather copy a duo format of a act that clearly outshown them. That act, of course, is Hall and Oates. Perhaps by 2010, both of them will be inducted. Would it be plausible?

Not out of touch, yet out of time for now,

Lax25

Posted by Lax25 on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 18:59pm


Gary Rossington...founding member of Lynryd Skynryd, never a member of the Outlaws.

Posted by Gitarzan on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 20:09pm


Yeah, i just wish they would consider the carpenters and the bread, also in my list is edwin starr and johnny walker and the allstars.


peace bro

Posted by akeem on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 21:06pm


"I will need to say that I do not listen to Coast to Coast that often: only on the web during some down time. Yet, there is a connection between the five inductees into the Hall of Fame Class of 2009: Peter Gabriel, Donna Summer, Chic, Yusuf Islam a.k.a. Cat Stevens, and The Eurythmics. At its least, all five have used funk at one time or another that was more harder edge. As well, each of them added an exotic pallette of soundscapes that delved into world influences. And yes, each of the artists are connected to Peter Gabriel in that he has colloborated or appeared in live concert events with each."

Well, if nothing else, it is an interesting theory. I don't know how much stock I'd put into the idea, though, that the five inductees into the Hall Of Fame will each be linked together in a Kevin Bacon sort of way. It just seems like THAT alone is a pretty grandiose premise from which to launch, and a pretty shaky one, too. But it is very interesting and will keep my attention, so at least thanks for that.

Posted by Philip on Sunday, 09.21.08 @ 22:27pm


The official 2009 Nominees:

Metallica
Run-DMC
The Stooges
Jeff Beck
Chic
Wanda Jackson
War
Little Anthony and the Imperials
Bobby Womack

more to come...

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 07:01am


The 2009 Nominations can be discussed here:
http://www.futurerocklegends.com/2009_Nominees.php

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 07:13am


If I can only choose 5 from the list:

Metallica (yes)
Run-DMC (yes)
The Stooges (God sake - yes)
Jeff Beck (yes)
Chic (no)
Wanda Jackson (yes)
War (no)
Little Anthony and the Imperials (no)
Bobby Womack (no)

Hey Lax - so much for Peter Gabriel. We told you that was not happening. And of this group, Chic should not be voted in. Personally, I don't see why they should ever be voted in. Although I have a feeling that the political correctness of it all will put them in before Jeff Beck, even though Niles Rogers couldn't shine Jeff Beck's guitar picks.

No Coven - what a travesty. (ooops - sorry)

I think this list of nominees perfectly illustrates the failures of this nominating committee.

The F'n Stooges better get in this time! Prog Rock and Post-punk have once again been completely bypassed and the refusal of this board to finally give credit to Alice, Deep Purple and the NY Dolls is just ridiculous.

The fans should just boycott this event.

Posted by blah-blah-blah on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 07:15am


My thoughts:

Metallica - they will probably get in as they are the biggest names on the list.

Run-DMC - They should have to wait. So many others should get in first but I can see them getting in as their aren't that many big names for this year.

The Stooges - Get them in they waited long enough. After last year they should be a shoe-in.

Jeff Beck - No brainer.

Chic - Never!!! two hits "Good Times" and "Le Freak" don't do it for me. Their songs are on my turn the dial to a new station. I can see Nile Rodgers going in for writer/producer but that is about it.

Wanda Jackson - I am going to say no. Should go in as an early influence.

War - Oh yeah, I love the fusion of the Latin, Rock and Funk music of "Low Rider", "Cisco Kid" and others. But I don't see them getting in this year.

Little Anthony and the Imperials - they will probably get in as they are one of the oldest acts on the list (except W. Jackson) not in.

Bobby Womack - A personal favorite but I just don't see enough people knowing about him. I can see Little Anthony getting in first.

Who I would like to see get in:
1. Metallica
2. The Stooges
3. Jeff Beck
4. War
5. Bobby Womack

Posted by Just One Soul on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 11:19am


Prediction tally: Future Rock Hall correctly predicted the nominations of The Stooges, Metallica, Chic and Run-DMC. We missed the other five, though we were the only ones to mention Wanda Jackson as a possibility.

Quite a few other people had a combination of the above four artists as well in the predictions.

Roy gets credit for being the only one to mention Little Anthony and the Imperials in one of his many lists.

Newbie was the only person to mention War.

Mike and jackrainman get credit for listing Jeff Beck.

No one predicted Bobby Womack's nomination.

Posted by Future Rock Legends on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 12:29pm


LAX25
Like you said I must be an idiot. At least I got two of the 9 correct, Metallica and RUN-DMC. You got 1 with Chic, and remember you GUARENTEED Peter Gabriel. Again, outside of "In Your Eyes" still don't think he has done anything great. Glad to know that your word came true.
Also, I guess Cat Stevens or whatever else he is going bye these days won't be coming back to the country all to soon either. Guess you meant 2010 with your choices.
Lets all say GOOD JOB LAX25

Posted by Steve on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 19:19pm


people mentioning madonna,donna summer and chic !blasphemy ! run dmc had a rock song because of aerosmith. how many rockers are in the r&b hall of fame?if someone doesnt understand the importance of stevie ray i guess that fourth and fifth cord is to much for the garage fans with stevie you felt what he was playing most guitarists are just glorified rythym players at best wondering in and out of a chromatic scale.

Posted by segovia on Monday, 09.22.08 @ 22:21pm


You can vote for the most deserving but overlooked artists in the Rock and Roll HoF at:

http://www.rateitall.com/t-2529-deserving-of-the-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame.aspx

The top 120 vote-getters at this point as voted by true rock fans are:
1 Rush
2 Deep Purple
3 Moody Blues
4 Yes
5 Alice Cooper
6 Chicago
7 Donovan
8 Neil Diamond
9 Jethro Tull
10 Genesis
11 Stevie Ray Vaughan
12 The Hollies
13 Heart
14 Kiss
15 The Zombies
16 The Guess Who
17 Electric Light Orchestra
18 Dire Straits
19 The Cars
20 Doobie Brothers
21 Cheap Trick
22 Steve Miller
23 Pete Townshend
24 Cat Stevens
25 Three Dog Night
26 Grand Funk Railroad
27 Styx
28 Hall & Oates
29 Joe Cocker
30 Wolfman Jack
31 Jim Croce
32 Roxy Music
33 Carole King
34 Duran Duran
35 Peter Gabriel
36 Pat Benatar
37 Joe Walsh
38 Jeff Beck
39 Def Leppard
40 T. Rex
41 The Stooges
42 Ozzy Osbourne
43 Boston
44 Journey
45 The Monkees
46 The Spinners
47 Gordon Lightfoot
48 Steppenwolf
49 Judas Priest
50 Foreigner
51 The Cure
52 Bad Company
53 Warren Zevon
54 Tommy James & the Shondells
55 Todd Rundgren
56 Steve Winwood
57 Badfinger
58 The Replacements
59 ABBA
60 Eurythmics
61 Los Lobos
62 Metallica
63 Emerson, Lake & Palmer
64 Ben E. King
65 The Smiths
66 Squeeze
67 The Jam
68 Billy Idol
69 B-52s
70 Carly Simon
71 Supertramp
72 Thin Lizzy
73 Iron Maiden
74 Blue Öyster Cult
75 Connie Francis
76 Donna Summer
77 The Grass Roots
78 Leon Russell
79 Tom Dowd
80 Scorpions
81 Lou Reed
82 Marianne Faithfull
83 Blood, Sweat & Tears
84 MC5
85 Harry Nilsson
86 Jan & Dean
87 Sting
88 Willie Nelson
89 Lesley Gore
90 The Go-Go's
91 Stevie Nicks
92 King Crimson
93 XTC
94 Joan Jett
95 Phil Collins
96 Johnny Rivers
97 Melanie
98 10,000 Maniacs
99 Carpenters
100 Little Feat
101 Barry White
102 Linda Ronstadt
103 Joe Jackson
104 War
105 Quincy Jones
106 Bon Jovi
107 Kansas
108 The Commodores
109 Ted Nugent
110 Run-D.M.C.
111 INXS
112 Peter Frampton
113 Sonny & Cher
114 Beastie Boys
115 Bread
116 Ringo Starr
117 Arlo Guthrie
118 Tom Waits
119 Red Hot Chili Peppers
120 Spencer Davis Group

Posted by Garrett on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 14:54pm


Nice...Rush tops the list, so screw all the naysayers, f%*&^ em' all...It simply amazes me how a band with so much talent, influence and longevity will never get into that snobby, bulls*&^% corporate institution - go Madonna!

Posted by UnBelievable on Wednesday, 09.24.08 @ 15:09pm


Jeff Beck Chic Wanda Jackson War
Little Anthony and the Imperials Bobby Womack

should go in replace the others with real musicians ... The Monkees, the Late Stevie Ray Vaughn, Ringo Starr & George Thorogood & The Delaware Destroyers

Posted by Klingon61 on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 03:46am


The Hollies should've gone in this yr
but hopefully 2009 will be their yr

put in The monkees, Ringo Starr , The Chantels,
Jan & Dean, Alice Cooper, The Defranco Family
& David Cassidy

Posted by gd on Sunday, 11.23.08 @ 04:01am


I had a really good dream last night;Rush,Deep Purple, King Crimson,Joan Jett,and Judas Priest all got inducted into the RHOF, at last.Then I woke up.

Posted by king floyd on Wednesday, 11.26.08 @ 19:56pm


The RRHOF is run by a bunch of musically challenged idiots. I have been listening to rock music for 40 years. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you what rock is an isn't.

1) Strong percussion back beat.
2) Heavy use of guitars

That's it!!

Progressive rock is rock it is not classical music in any shape or form, it is rock and roll. Listen to ELP, Yes, Genesis, etc and you will see numbers 1 & 2 demonstrated.

Posted by guitargod on Friday, 04.3.09 @ 11:02am


JOE COCKER SNUBBED AGAIN. That is just plain wrong and an injustice. For those nay-sayers who say Joe never wrote any of his material, I have news for you! Neither have 1/2 the Rockers currently enshrined. All those great motown acts had house writers Holland, Dozier, Holland, and they wrote the bulk of hits for all of them. Poor Joe with a resume that dates back to Woodstock, and still going strong, and he has to see rappers get inducted, while he is ignored. The HOF Sucks!

Posted by Tony on Thursday, 09.24.09 @ 21:21pm


Agreed Roxy Music is the most notable band not in the Rock Hall. One of the top five influential band to come out of the UK.

Posted by D Aronosfsky on Friday, 10.23.09 @ 00:28am


A little harsh aren't we? I'd give these predictions about a 3.

Posted by joker on Wednesday, 06.13.12 @ 20:40pm


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